02/12/2012 Sunday Politics South

Should private schools be forced to part nurse state schools? The

Girls' School Association says know. Critics say it is he any way to

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2127 seconds

Welcome to Sunday Politics South - my name's Alex Forsyth. On today's

programme. Prime Minister David Cameron has described the

separation between private and state schools as "the biggest

wasted opportunity facing our country" - but should fee-paying

institutions be forced into partnerships? Let us meet the two

politicians who will be with me. Conor Burns is Conservative MP for

Bournemouth West and Alan Whitehead de Labour MP for Southampton Test.

Allen, the Government's energy bill was published yesterday. Lots of

mentions of renewable energy but also that we could see people pay

more for energy bills. It certainly would not be good news if that is

what we end up with. What I hope, in an important piece of

legislation which Hasted last 15 years, is that as a result of much

better energy efficiency and much better insulation, then bills will

go down over the longer period or not go up as quickly as they are at

the moment. But there's a lot of work to do to get the bill correct.

On renewables, Conor Burns, you have been on the record for

position to some proposals for wind farms in your constituency. I am

worried about a very specific one, a proposal to build the largest

offshore wind farm of the Jurassic Coast of Dorset. We are heavily

dependent on tourism and to put that just offshore risks damaging

an important sector of the economy. But you need to have renewables

somewhere. We need greater energy diversification. We are

increasingly reliant on enemies real in the Middle East and enemies

as print in Russia. For 13 years, and Labour prevaricated about

replacing the nuclear power stations, and we are doing that.

Thanks for the moment. It's nearly 2000 pages long and the cost of

producing it could reach �5.6 million. But most of what the

Leveson Report talks about is the sometimes dubious behaviour of the

national press. So what about the local press? It's something the

Prime Minister was asked about in the Commons. Effectively what is

being said here is that in the constituency of Witney, were the

prime minister's agent to have the personal dinner with someone who

happens to work for local paper, then there would have to be

recorded. What does the Prime is to think of that recommendation?

Paragraph 19 of the summary makes a special point about Britain's

regional newspapers. It's as their contribution to local life is truly

without parallel and he praises the role of local newspapers. On her

second point, we must look very carefully at the recommendations

for increased transparency. Whiting the transparency is important.

his report, Leveson said the demise of regional newspapers would be a

"real loss for our democracy". So, what could changes to press

regulation mean for our local media? Joining me in the studio is

Alan Marriott, who is the Editor of the Isle Of Wight County Press. We

have had talk about the national media, not so much about local

press, by what you think this whole inquiry and report might mean?

think it is very important that something happens. Since it came

out on Thursday, we have said that if we do not get this right then

things I did come down on our heads. We cannot be divorced from the

national press in that way. However, we do not do what has been done in

the name of journalism by the national press. We do serve the

communities that we live in very well. I think we have got to take

on this iconic role that we have had an keep it going. Economically,

it is a big problem for the regional press these days. But we

battle on and what we do not need is bureaucracy on our heads. Do you

think you will be tarred effectively by the same brush, and

will end up with onerous regulation to make your lives even more

difficult? If we follow the model that Lord Hunt has suggested.

is the idea of contracting? Yes. It is a Press Complaints Commission

with teeth. The power to fine transgressors. I completely

understand the reason for doing that. I have spoken to Lord Hunt

about it, he is very clear that it would be proportional. So the Isle

Of Wight Country Press, which is a small to medium-sized newspaper,

would not expect be paying more million-pound fines, which would

ruin it. There is reason behind this proposal and I think it would

work well. What has your expense being of the Press Complaints

Commission? Have they been effective when it comes to local

Major? They have. I had been up before the more times than I care

to remember. But nine times ahead of 10 I had been found in the right.

I say that we have little pleasure because I don't like to think that

somebody thinks we have done wrong by them. Inevitably, you to upset

people. You should not be deterred from upsetting them by the fact

that you may have a watchdog on your back. We have heard a lot

about the relationship between a police, politicians and the media

on a national level, but surely you must off to work quite closely with

those people on a local level? you do have to work closely with

them. We all live and work in a very small area on the Isle of

Wight. We know the politicians, we know the policeman. They may be

friends of ours, whatever, through our social networks. But there is

still that barrier that people put up, and we seem to respect,

generally, that we do not overstep the mark. There is nothing that you

would not do to a politician you know, that you would not report

something on them, they were to someone you did not know.

Leveson made people more nervous about those relationships are the

local level? I do not think so. I think we boys have this correct

level of knowing each other but not favouring each other, and I think

that will continue. Conor Burns, you have been quite outspoken. He

led a letter published this week against the idea of legislation.

What are your views on Leveson? Many of the recommendations are

welcome. I asked the Prime Minister whether he would encourage me in

encouraging Lord Black and Lord Hunt to get on and look at Leveson

and seek some of -- and see whether some of the specific

recommendations could be added to his proposals for a Press

Complaints Commission with T. I am nervous about the idea of

legislation underpinning this. I do not think you can be a little bit

pregnant. The moment you have a law on the statute book it can be

extended and amend it. The letter that I organise, was not just with

Tory members. There is nervousness across the house. What of the teeth

of a body without legislation? threat of statutory legislation.

That is the thing that has got every national newspaper on to the

same page in terms of endorsing the plans of Lord Hunt and Lord black.

Alan Whitehead, you agree with Leveson, and you like your idea of

legislation. Yes, I think legislation as a back-up to shape

an independent commission enforce in proper standards and a proper

relationship between the press and the Republic -- the press and the

public, and a right of redress, that is a correct step forward. It

needs to be independent of Parliament but as far as

legislation is concerned, the fact that you legislate for safety in

vehicles does not mean that MPs runaround dink MoT tests. It is not

like that. It is a back-up to make independent scrutiny work. Lord

Leveson was very clear about the importance of the freedom of the

press and how that is preserved. do not think the national body

which would have to catch everybody in its arrangements would have any

effect really on the regional and local press, because, as Lord

Leveson said, they have operated almost wholly in a very honourable

way over many years. It is about the hacking, it is about the

destruction of personal lives, about the intrusions, which went on

with connivance at the highest level for many years, legal or not,

in sections of the national press. I feel that, give us a chance. Put

us on a suspended sentence, if you like. Unknown lord Leveson says

there have been plenty of chances before, but let's give it a go.

Thanks for being with us. In Dorset, a unique partnership between a

group of state schools and a private school is proving so

successful it could be rolled out across the country. Prime Minister

David Cameron has described the separation between private and

state schools as "the biggest wasted opportunity facing our

country". He wants to see the two education sectors working more

closely together. But as Tristan Pascoe reports, not everyone agrees.

Thomas Hardye School in Dorchester, an academy for a number of years,

and they have for long time been in partnership with other schools.

Their state school partnership was joined by Enya by a fee-paying

school, Sunninghill prepared to school. Today, children and staff

from both Sunninghill and Thomas Hardye School have come together to

talk about the partnership. We have been to Thomas Hardye School and

done Cookery School, Bath stays, partnerships. We can share

facilities with the schools. It is a great way to interact with other

schools. I think going and do things like cooking is very

beneficial, because you can take it back into your own school. The Head

Master's believe that integration has huge social benefits. Putting

independent schools into Ivory terse is a dangerous thing to do,

in my opinion. Working together, we achieve far more for the benefit of

all. We learn a Sujit mount from Sunninghill and from Andrew and the

way his school works. What I hope is that they benefit from us as

well. Most private schools are charities, and that brings tax

benefits. Labour say they would abolish that charitable status it

private schools do not do more to serve the local community. But some

private schools so they do not like being told what to do. This is

Sherborne Girls School. Like many independent schools, they are

already involved in a smaller scale partnership with the nearby Academy,

but the Girls School Association say these kind of partnership

should be of their own making a should not be forced. Sometimes,

head feel they are being pushed into a certain type of sponsorship

of academies. I think in some ways that can be a very poor way of

partnering your state schools. There really is not of one size

fits all. For independent schools will not sponsoring academies for

Kimbolton partnerships, should they have their charitable status

preserved? Very few of us would tie it into the chapel status argument.

Most of us do this because we think it is the right thing to do. Back

in the County Down, the success of the Dorset area partnership has

made ministers sit up and take note, and it could become a Template for

the rest of the country. But does prove that people can get very high

quality schooling where people co- operate. We need to ensure that we

open up the opportunity for people to innovate and think of good ways

of providing better education. Their heads of both Sunninghill and

Thomas Hardye School thing they have hit on a winning formula to

help children climbed a ladder of attainment. All of these children

will either be working together in later life or going to university

together, and I think that until we start to co-operate in this way

they will be problems ahead. This is one of the ways we can solve

those problems. I believe passionately in state education and

comprehensive education, and that in Thomas Hardye School has shown

that that provision can be outstanding. But I feel that Thomas

Hardye School benefits from this partnership with Sunninghill, and

we provide better state education as a result of that. Stronger

together. Yes, for sure. The Campaign for State Education

would like to remove what they say is the "undeserved charitable

status of private schools". But what does that actually mean?

Joining me from our Birmingham studio is Michael Pyke, from that

campaign group. What do you mean by that? To have charitable status

implies that an organisation confers a public benefit. The

private school system collectively does not confer a public benefit.

Arguably, it confers a public harm. Therefore, to offer charitable

status to private schools is a contradiction in terms. What do you

mean by public harm? We see that the most successful jurisdictions

abroad do not a powerful private sectors. In the case of Finland,

for example they felt it necessary to do away with the private sector

in order to make progress. But in Allah own country, the private

sector collectively deprived state schools of resources, it they

deprive state schools of status, which does matter. And behind that,

their very existence promulgate the idea that education is a positional

good, something, which if you have got the resources, you should buy,

in order to advantage your children. That is really not a way to produce

a well educated population. Conor Burns, private schools deprive the

state sector and cause harm. I have not heard for a long time such

utter and complete nonsense. The idea that the vibrant private

sector of this country, where children are striving to send

children to those schools, they are paying tax to fund the state

schools and they are paying fees for the private schools out of

taxed income. They are ensuring there is more money in the state

sector because they are playing twice. Let us take the teaching

supply. About seven % of children in this country attend private

schools get 14 % of the teaching force work in private schools. All

of them were educated at the taxpayers' expense. You accept that

the parents sending shock and to buy the schools are paying tax as

well as paying the fees. To know what they cost would be to the

DuPont of education at all private schools closed and all the children

apply to go to the state schools? If the private schools were

integrated into the state system, which they should be, the Bill

would be nothing at all. But it is a red herring. There are childless

people who pay taxes so that other people's children can be educated.

The reason we pay taxes for education is not solely that I can

advantage my children at the expense of your children. We pay

taxes for education so that the country as a whole will benefit. We

know from research by the OECD that the more stratified and

hierarchical the education system, the more inefficient it is, the

more the children with the poorest backgrounds suffer from that.

Whitehead, I want to askew about this idea of private schools part

ring with state schools. Can they offer them anything? I think all

schools should work together more than they do at present. Both in

and around the state system there is a lot of evidence that schools

entering into partnerships and working in clusters is a very

positive way of advancing education in those schools. But as fast track

will status is concerned, I think the law has changed. When

charitable status was first introduced for private schools,

there was no state education. The idea that you pay someone to

educate your child and that institution can then expect to be a

charity is rather outdated. I think certainly such schools, if they

wish to have charitable status, or to be the cure what it is to be a

charity. There are birch trees, there are scholarships, there is

work in the community. And a number of those schools do exactly that.

Therefore, in terms of qualifying as a charity, you would say that

under modern charity law they do. But simply the idea that you go to

Harrow and you go to Eton and that is a charity in its own right does

not seem to me to be in line with modern charity law. They always

used his Harrow and eaten line. There are tens of thousands of

excellent private schools. We have an academy in a difficult part of

former. A leading private school fees partnering with the ball of

the academy. They are lending money and expertise, they are doing a lot

to learn their status. What I emphasise was that it was rather

more than just being there to get charitable status. Now our regular

round-up of the political week in It has been a wet week for many.

You would expect to be flooded before Christmas, after Christmas.

Motorists in Oxford were almost swamped by swollen rivers, while

the row over Flood Insurance rumbles on. But almost art college

is one of 10 institutions in the college to be in line for

university status. -- Bournemouth. Ofsted Sleep tables showed that

only poor just over half of pupils in Portsmouth Reading are in good

schools. I think it is quite amazing because it can go 200 mph

and I'm not sure if the car could to that. And New Forest West MP

sported an impressive moustache as part of the month-long fund-raising

drive for charity. Alan Whitehead, is this a special

effort? But then above there I should do something like painted

pink for November! It mention their about the flooding and it has had a

devastating effect. What about this idea to cut defence budgets --

flood defence budgets, are you worried about this? Of course. What

I was offended by this week was the affair -- de insurers can you do

want people they may not get insurance. Clearly we have got to

make sure that insure it works well for those people who have had the

misfortune of being flooded. There is a wider issue for the future

which is to make sure that where we build properties they are properly

defend it and that certainly will look carefully at building homes on

flood plains because the event at these floods on a much more regular

basis in the future, I suspect. We have to make sure people do not

have that regular experience of being flooded out of their homes.

Thank you both very much for being with us. That's the Sunday Politics

in the South, thanks to my guests Conor Burns, and Alan Whitehead.