21/04/2013 Sunday Politics South

on the rise was up 35 on the Isle of Wight alone. Are we falling out of

love with the party machine? Without that machine, could you get anything

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2070 seconds

name's Peter Henley. On today's programme: ? The Isle of Wight has

35 independents standing for 40 seats.

All over the South, more people are going it alone and shunning the

established parties. Have we really fallen out of love with the

political mainstream? More on that shortly. First, let's meet to

politicians who will be with me for the next 20 minutes was up Layla

Moran is the Parliamentary candidate for Oxford West and Abingdon. Alok

Sharma is the MP for Reading West. Have you got a conservatory on your

house quest you Mark? I do, yes.Do you have planning permission?

is Labour Party hypocrisy. It was the Labour Party that introduced

permitted developments so that it was not just roof extensions but

rear extension six well. We have to be clear that we are talking about

small excesses. You try to stop small ventures that were

inappropriate. What is going on? Secretary of State has said very

clearly that he is cleared to build a broad consensus and there will be

some more odysseys coming out very shortly and C but that comes up

with. The key point to make here is that people have said that somehow

this is having a go at localism and all that was the pit is about having

local people have a chance to build small extensions but councils still

have an opportunity to turn down permitted development rights under

section four. It is not a free for all. People also have to abide by

building regulations abide by the right to light. A whole bunch of

regulations will stop it is not a free for all. I'm a little concerned

by it all. It is a recipe for getting neighbours to fight with

each other. We have local democracy for a reason. My view is it should

be left to local government to decide how best to fulfil these

policies will stop. Surely it will create some demand in the local

economy? But the source policies don't usually have long-term

results. The Secretary of State's has said he wants a broad consensus.

Before any judgements, let's see what he comes up with. This is about

to stimulate in jobs and the local economy and work for small companies

and builders was up that is something we should welcome. The you

think that will happen? Supporting local businesses is something the

liberal Democrats like to do but in the context of making sure it is

good for everyone in the local community. Would I worry about is it

will be taken out of the hands of the local government. The funeral of

Margaret Thatcher this week certainly caused plenty of heated

debate will stop part of it being about Conservative proposals to name

a new non-residential Street in Portsmouth after her. The city has a

bit of form in commemorating former premises was up their streets named

after Jim Callaghan, Clement Attlee, Winston Churchill and even Lord

North if you can remember as far back as 18th century. The modern

plan hasn't gone down quite so well. You were saying that you thought it

was too soon to do this? That was my initial reaction when I heard that

the proposal had been put forward. The proposal was made before the

funeral had taken place. How long that you wait? You have quoted the

other streets we have named, Bowser been established. Jim Callaghan had

been out of office for a long time. Certainly a long time after Winston

Churchill and Clement Attlee. That was certainly my initial reaction

but reflecting upon it, I felt that it was unlikely to have the backing

of the community. A bit like the minute silence at the football?

have seen how polarised people are in terms of Margaret Thatcher, in

terms of her legacy. I think it would be a focal point for that type

of protest and highlighting how divisive Margaret Thatcher was seen

as. A connection with Portsmouth, with the Falklands, is something

that the city should be proud of? reflected upon that and when you

reflect on Margaret Thatcher's link with Portsmouth, she was not born in

Portsmouth, there was the fleet for the Falklands was prepared in

Falklands. I was part of the defence review, just before I took up the

work in the dockyard. The reality is that Margaret Thatcher's government

was running down Portsmouth dockyard and had the Argentinians invaded the

Falklands a year later, who knows what had happened? They would not

have been the workers in the dockyard to prepare the fleet. There

is a rewriting of history going on in terms of Margaret Thatcher's

connection with Portsmouth and what she has done. And so you thought the

suggestion from the Conservative candidate would have been part of

it. I suppose you think they should be no U-turn is. Has there been a

rewriting of history? Look, firstly it has not happened. The Liberal

Democrats are not in favour of this will stop let's remember that they

have some say on the council. We must remember that she does not have

a real link to Portsmouth. Callaghan was born here. Churchill had the key

to the city, is that right? There are good reasons why they did that.

Clannad Attlee had a street named after him because the Labour

government was naming streets after him all over the country. We could

not have done much about that. If that came before the council now, we

would have been against it. It is not appropriate for here. Grantham,

Vinci, sure. Portsmouth, why? do is pick up on the point of

rewriting history? I was relatively young when Margaret Thatcher came to

power but I remember how disastrous it was in cells of this country at

the time. We were referred to as the sick man of Europe. Whatever people

say, she restored British competitiveness and our pride. There

will be people who have differing views about Margaret Thatcher. They

can all agree that she was a trans formation or leader. It is more than

that. It is about recognising someone who made a huge con to be

seen to Britain. I was at the funeral service in Saint Pauls and

it was very moving. You will know that as the Coffin was taken out of

the cathedral, there were spontaneous applause was stop there

was recognition of the fact that he was someone who was greatly admired.

-- here was someone who was greatly admired. EU not think there has been

a rewriting of history? Lots of people have been commenting who were

not even born during the Margaret Thatcher era. That is unfortunate.

But as someone who lived through it, we were in a very bad place as a

country. We had to go to the IMF, cap in hand. The Labour Aardman

tabloid this country to its knees was that is something that Margaret

changed. We should be grateful for that. There were a lot of people who

actually very upset by the fact we were spending millions of public

money who was hugely divisive. Other prime ministers had not had the same

treatment. If you watching her cortege as it made its way through

London, people were applauding. You are doing a great disservice to the

memory of someone who made a huge contributing to Britain. John

Ferrett, just quickly. The Labour Party has not led criticism in this

situation. Was that the right idea? We are seeing the polarisation that

Margaret Thatcher has caused. Polarisation, discussion? There is

interest in politics and history. She got me interested in politics.

Without her, I might not been a union wrap and I might not have been

a politician. We have seen the polarisation. On the left, over the

last two weeks, we have seen Margaret Thatcher blamed for

everything that has gone wrong over the last 30 years will stop on the

right, we have seen her held up as an omnipotent figure that invented

Mr whippy ice cream. I must have missed that one! Let's move on. None

of us wants a politician who is a slave to the party machine. I'm sure

none of our guests today fit that bill. If they do go alone, will they

be able to go it alone? We have been looking at the rise of the

independent candidate in next months local elections. Party politics is

simple. Someone somewhere has a bright idea was that Labour, Liberal

Democrat, Conservative, put it to a vote, Bolger uncle. Imagine if

County Hall was full of independent councillors. What would it be like?

Would it be a bit like, well, herding ducks? Come on, lads. Over

here! Altogether now. May the 2nd is Independence Day here in the south,

with scores of independents standing in the local elections. These areas

see a good and councillors. In treasure, there will be nine. In

Wiltshire, 28 independents have put their names forward. Voters in

Dorset will have the chance to elect ten. Leading the way is England's

smallest county, the Isle of Wight sees a grand total of 35

independents. So what is going on? What we are seeing is the beginning

of a revival of independents standing in elections. There are far

more of them standing then there were a few decades ago. In a way,

what independents do is bring a lot of issues, a lot of concerns, a lot

of matters that the parties have been neglecting to the fore and then

it is down to the parties to think about responding and taking up

positions. Even if an independent doesn't win the election, they can

affect what happens in their area to a significant degree by making the

parties pay attention to the issues that they are raising. The Isle of

Wight by be the smallest county but it has the most independent

candidates standing in this election. What do local people make

of it all? It can be a good thing. Our hats we are fed up with the same

old faces that aren't doing anything. The little chap that

called at my home yesterday, he is independent and had several things

on his list that I would vote for. So I think I might give him hit my

vote, make a change was up it is not what you know but it is who you

know. If you go independent, you've had best know a view people. Being

the right circles. The more variety you get, the better. But you have to

have true independence. They will always have a leaning to the left or

a leaning to the right. I find true independence would be difficult to

get. Independents to me was important. I did not want to be tied

or type of the political brush. Charles Hancock was the independent

counsel in East Cowes. I have been in council chambers where other

political party members had been frustrated because they were gagged.

They are not allowed to speak out against policy and party line.

you get anything done is every one is a free spirit? If you put a

number of free spirits together, you get a team working for the benefit

of the local communities overall. That has got to be better. Come on,

lads. If we are going to make a breakthrough, we need to work

together. Just listen! It is the future! Follow me! I have been to a

few council meetings like that one! Very noticeable, the number of

independents but also the number of UKIP candidates, hugely up. We have

Diane James, a candidate for UKIP from the Eastleigh by-election

joining us. You were an independent and now you have a UKIP group with

defections from the Conservative ranks. Does it feel better to be

part of a group? Clearly it does but the comment was made in your footage

just then that the issue is that has brought the three UKIP people

together, myself and the other two Conservatives is this complete

borrowers of the party whip. And having been a independent for a long

time on Waverley Council and being part of an independent group, I have

seen many examples of how that can work against localism, a good local

decision-making and so on. It works of the detriment of voters. We are

very clear that the whip should not be employed. For the defectors from

the Conservative party, that was the attraction to join me. We have to

know what you are standing for. In these local elections, UKIP, we know

about the EU, we know about immigration. Do people know what

they would get from a UKIP councillor? First of all, we have

launched a national manifesto. Everyone can look at on the website.

Each of the constituencies have been able to take that major manifesto

and translate it into one which is applicable for them locally. If you

don't mind, I'd like to go back to the EEC experience and just say that

the accusation was made that we were just a single issue party out of the

EU. What was coming through clearly in Eastleigh was that the vast

majority of people could see that the root cause of the problems that

they were seeing and experience in on a daily basis was from the EU

membership. For them, that translation has been made and that

translation has been made across the country. So still EU at the top. It

is a fresh start, against tired parties like yours. When you are

single issue, it is easy to maintain the whip. When you have a wide set

of constituencies across the country, like the liberal Democrats

do, you have to balance. All things to all people? You have to listen

and then act. Within a family, there might be discussions between the

parents but the direction of travel has to be decided. What I will say,

I understand what Diane is saying, but you can still be able single

issue party and they don't have very many councillors, they are not a

party of local government. That might change after these elections!

What I would say to anyone who wants efficient services, is vote

Conservative. Weiss and they bowed UKIP to keep those things? From a

local perspective, they are very much single issue. If you look at

what the Conservatives believe in comic David Cameron has clearly said

that after the general election, if we win, we will have a referendum on

Europe. That is not something that UKIP is going to be able to

deliver, not even Nigel Farage is suggesting that UKIP is done to be

running the country in 2015. We're talking about local councils.

finish the point. Immigration is down by a third. We're getting to

sustainable levels of immigration. If they want a referendum in Europe,

they want sustainable... It should be about local issues. Why aren't

Labour not providing the sort of opposition, particularly on local

issues, that people are turning to UKIP for? These are not natural

Labour territories, Labour seats. You have them written off?

haven't got elections in Portsmouth and Southampton. These are county

elections. We are working hard to try and get every Labour voter out

we can, just as we did in Eastleigh. We saw that it was a very tough call

in Eastleigh to get voters out. On the UKIP point, I listened to Nigel

Farage talking about building the UKIP brand. Doesn't want to talk

about UKIP policies because they don't have policies except for

immigration. It is a fresh start!If you're talking about local elections

at a national elections, you are talking about the need to have

credible policies. They need to have edible policies locally, in

Portsmouth, we are looking at �17 million worth of cuts this year. We

have a Lib Dem council. I understand, those cuts have to be

made because the cuts we are getting for central government will stop

what is UKIP's position on cuts. cannot just say will get money back

from Europe, because that might happen. The key issue and we have

this is our top priority in our local manifesto, and I didn't raise

immigration, by the way, is this issue of the local referendum. If I

present of the voters in a given constituency, county council or city

council or whatever, were to put their lead to a petition, they can

then ask for a review of that particular decision. For instance,

if they don't want building on Green out... What if you don't get control

of the Council? This could be embarrassing after putting up Sony

candidates. I think we will do well. We have 40 defections, if I

remember, in place already. If we lose a few of those, fair enough.

Our target is more than that but I won't give you an exact number. What

I did is more likely is we will have two or three UKIP councillors on

probably every single Council across the country. That will give us the

balance of control. That is a very important position to be in, having

been there before. In they would be independence. I just want a comeback

on the point of Labour's expectations will stop in 2009, they

were on 31% in the opinion polls. They need to demonstrate they can

reach across the country. We have a couple of target set. Let's see how

we go. Now a round-up in 62 seconds. This time, it is about

bridging the divide. -- 60 seconds. The funeral of Margaret Thatcher

dominated the week. Little common ground between those travelling up

from the south. I was very moved, been part of the crowd. It was a

sombre experience. Margaret Thatcher divided the country, she still does

today. In Reading, they are to build bridges, a pedestrian 18 least

between two crossings. In Dorset, Paul councils has been defending the

closure of the twins sales closing bridge. The old one may have the

committees. In Bournemouth, they using an old bridge for a new use.

The new extensive sign is controversial. A bridge is one of

the few things not stolen from Army bases on Salisbury plain. MP John

Glenn slammed a cut in MOD police. Therapists be no military police on

Salisbury plain. Meanwhile, South London and Reading universities are

spending to Asia to meet the growing demand for education. It seems to be

whether money is for university education, eating student in from

abroad. Is that a good thing? voice believed that immigration and

people coming in at making sure that they are contributing to this

economy is very much a good thing. And going to universities it is a

start? We charge quite a large amount of these. That does country

to the economy and they then get jobs, if they can, here.

Unfortunately, current Conservative immigration policy is stopping them

from coming. It is a coalition government. Can I come back on a

point, education is a world-class sector forums. People want a British

education. It is a people coming here, there are no limits on numbers

of students, since they satisfy criteria in terms of convocation is

in image and so on. We are running at of time. I was in Indonesia and