19/05/2013 Sunday Politics South


19/05/2013

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the weight is recorded as fundamentally flawed. -- in the

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Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2156 seconds

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Crime levels about their lowest level for 30 years, but can you

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really believe the statistics? Violence is down by 6%, and robbery

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13%. But our officers under pressure to keep crime levels low? The Police

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Federation certainly thinks so and some experts believe the way we

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measure crime is fundamentally flawed.

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Let's meet the politicians who will be with me. Lord Jim Knight from

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Dorset is Ely Borough peer, Dr Phillip Lee is the Conservative MP

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for Racal. Seven men convicted of this week. The big story was the

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grooming and sexually exploiting of girls in Oxford. Some as young as 11

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and from troubled background. Lisa and social services came into

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contact with these offenders time and time again. Why do you think

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nothing was done? I think there has been a culture in the police and

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social services not to believe these vulnerable young women when they

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come forward. We have seen it in other parts of the country. The

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victims who have given evidence in that trial should be applauded for

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their bravery in doing so. Also, the police officers carried out the

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operation have done good job in the end. But there has been a culture in

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the police of not taking his thing seriously, and that has to change.

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Phillip Lee, the police say race was not a factor in this, but these were

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five men convicted from an Asian background. All the girls were

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white. What do you think? I do not think it has anything to do with

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Islam. Islam teaches people to treat women appropriately. The idea it is

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anything to do that, think, is wrong. To say that it is a Pakistani

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community problem would be too simplistic. Clearly, there are

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problems, and where you have such problems in one community, I'm sure

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members of the committee are reflecting on that. It would not be

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appropriate that it has anything to do with race or religion. People of

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Pakistani origin would be as appalled by this as anyone else.

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There may be some cultures that we would all be appalled by. It seems

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to be more widespread than people thought. Jim, when this was going

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on, you were the schools Minister, AGP, isn't it about agencies not

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having talked to each other's -- talk to each other properly? We need

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to look at ourselves. Increasingly, we turn to, it's the system, it's

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the social care system. We have had so many examples of a breakdown in

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systems. When we going to realise that individually, as professional

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people, we all have a responsibility to say when something is wrong? In

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Staffordshire, there was another example. From my time in the

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department, when that was going on, it inspired others to start a way of

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sharing data for people and professionals who work with children

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so that some of these things could be spotted earlier. Unfortunately,

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it was expensive and has been cancelled. I wonder whether or not

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does was a good idea. There are other people who are now in charge

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and making those decisions. But the people in charge seem to have

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learned lessons. Do you think it is right they are allowed to develop

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the answers here in oxygen? There needs to be a transparent debate

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about that. Some people are worried that people aren't taking

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responsibility. I don't want to see the Chief Constable head of the

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council should resign, because it is a wider problem. People should start

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taking responsibility. No one is talking about the periods of the

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girls. What about parental report -- parental responsibility? I think

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they tried very hard. I know that the Chief Constable has apologise,

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and that is to be respected, but when you look at this, you think,

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what about the responsibilities of families in all of this? I am not

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convinced that people wouldn't have known. Members of the family...

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about the man who was driving around Oxford trying to find his doctor? --

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trying to find his daughter? I think as a society, we need to start the

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King at ourselves a bit and stop relying on Government. We need to

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start relying on committees and families.

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On a hospital ward, how many patients can one nurse look after

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safely? It is a question being asked in the NHS were senior nurses say

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that was regularly have one registered nurse caring for each or

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more patients. They believe that is unsafe. According to Southampton

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University research, is that patients to NASA visual increases,

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so does more deaths. Joining us is Jane Ball, Debbie the director of

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the National Nursing Research Unit. What is this research showing?

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campaign is all about drawing attention to staffing levels,

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particularly registered nurse staffing levels, and highlighting

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that there becomes a level at which staffing can fault too low and

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patients lives are at risk. We are drawing from a range of different

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research. There has been research over the last ten years, but the

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most recent study that Southampton University undertook looked at but

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one different trusts. We surveyed nurses in those trusts and related

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their staffing levels to our data we had an mortality rate. What we found

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was that you get to a certain point where patients are at greater risk

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of dying in hospital. It's a tipping point, is it? Are you sure that

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statistics and a simple relationship between staffing and mortality tells

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the whole story? Isn't there a lot more about the quality of training?

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I think both are true. There is a lot more to good quality care with

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safety and compassion, rather than just the right number of nurses. But

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if you don't have enough nurses, you will put lives at risk. So, it is a

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continuum and there are other factors, but when you get to eight

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patients or more per registered nurse, you're putting lives at risk.

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To achieve that target, another target for the Health Service,

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wouldn't you have to take away money from other parts of the National

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Health Service? Possibly causing trouble, but Roberts Francis was

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causing trouble when he was investigating what was going on in

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Staffordshire. If we believe in patient matters, we have to look at

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what makes a difference. We are seeing clear evidence that must

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staffing levels, registered nurse staffing levels, make a difference.

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We can't ignore that evidence. These are difficult times in terms of

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costs, but we can't ignore that relationship. Otherwise, -- the

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pasty decision-making back to nurses. What we find is that nurses

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with lower levels of staff say they are things they don't do on their

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shift. Nine out of ten nurses say that there were activities relation

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-- relating to not seize -- relating to patients that they had not done.

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That won't solve the problem, because there are all sorts of other

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factors. One of the things that came out of the CQC report was that there

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was a lot of variation in hospitals, but were somewhat have good staffing

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levels and aren't delivering good quality of care. We need to

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understand what is going on with that. They also said that delivering

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a high quality of care is almost impossible if you don't have enough

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nursing staff. The cos there simply isn't enough expertise available to

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patients to get things done, so nurses have to effectively ration

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care, will they have to choose whether or not to answer a buzzer or

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carry on giving medications on time. We're putting Fisher nurses to work

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out how to prioritise and Russian. -- prioritise. We need more of

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everything, because that is where healthcare is going. We are raging.

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-- we are getting older. If you have an ageing society, you're more

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likely to have people who have dementia. If you have one person

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with dementia on a ward, this can cause no end of problems to nursing

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staff. It is not just about the nature of the job, it is the nature

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of the cases, because we are raging. There is also a case about

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buildings. If you have a traditional ward with it is. , it is much more

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difficult to staff. It is multifactorial. The challenge we

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have as a society is that we can spend twice as much as we do on

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health care and still have problems. Given way have got the

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system we have got, Abbey go to have to spend charge people for it? Some

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radical reorganisation? The NHS is going through yet another radical

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reorganisation at the moment. make sure that patients get the

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money spent on them that we need. have 5000 fewer masses than we did

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in 2010 and it is projected to fall over the next few years. The Care

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Quality Commission says that one in ten hospitals does not have enough

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staff. It is a timely reminder of staff levels. Clearly, just to say

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it is all about staff is simplistic, and there is a finite

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amount of resources. We have to look at whether we can do more ourselves

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as it -- citizens to prevent ourselves getting chronic diseases

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and conditions. But, in the end, I do think we need to look carefully

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at staffing levels and hold David Cameron to his promise about the

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National Health Service. A new target, as that which you would like

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to see? I wouldn't describe it as a target. The 128 ratio isn't a

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fundamental style -- target that should be breached. Nurses should

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report to the trust and hospital and asked for action to be taken. That

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standard can be used. Because we don't have definite guidelines,

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there isn't measures to help people assess whether staffing is OK or

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not. For years, we have had nurses saying they don't have enough staff,

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and others saying, well, we're always hearing that. Now we have a

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number that we can help to gauge if it is at an unsafe level. We would

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call for patients, visitors to ask, how many staff are on today? How

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many beaches -- how many registered nurses? Thank you very much

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forgotten to us. The latest figures show crime is at

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its lowest level for more than 30 years. In Hampshire, it is down by

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15%, and in Thames Valley, nearly 11%. That is according to the

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official crime survey. But how trustworthy others figures and the

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way they are measured? -- how trustworthy RB figures?

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I don't feel safe. I can't go out until Constable. -- go out and feel

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comfortable. We live in Swanage, and the electricity and main lights have

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been switched off. I have heard people saying crime is going up

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because of that. I don't like it at night on my own. We wouldn't go out

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in the evening on our own things like that. Nowhere near the save as

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a few years ago. So, some people may think crime is on the increase.

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According to figures, it is actually going down. So which is it? When you

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go to a holiday parks such as the ones we find in the South coast and

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the number of caravans have been broken into, years ago, when I first

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started as a police officer, I would be recording ten different kinds for

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that. At the moment, we record one. There needs to be a debate and

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examination of exactly what is going on with crime figures, because we

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think people are just not reporting it. At their annual conference in

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Bournemouth last week, the Police Federation said crime figures were

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being kept artificially low. The way in which police and interpreting the

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rules sent from the Home Office, given that they had been under

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pressure to show year-on-year falls and crying -- on crime, if crime

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levels went up, there was a failure. In Dorset, I am confident in

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relation to the accuracy of crime figures. We have plenty of people

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who check that we are doing it accurately according to national

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standards. Despite an apparent fall in violent offences of nearly 15%,

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one Dorset charity working with victims of domestic violence says

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the reality is different. Sometimes statistics are behind what is

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happening on the ground. That is now one pos-mac fault, it is just the

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recording statistics and classification of watch report. We

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see an increasing need for people with housing over the few years --

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Oval last few years, and over the last 12 months. We have seen a big

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increase. There are two ways that crime levels are measured. One, the

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number of crimes reported to the police, and another based on the

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survey of households and their experience of crime. That is showing

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that crime is falling, and I think we should congratulate the officers

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on the streets who have been doing their part in making sure those

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figures go down. But there are some who say they crime survey figures

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will always be misleading. Property crime has changed in its nature

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since the early 1990s. There are new forms of property crime being

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perpetrated on an increasing scale. The sorts of fraud and scams that go

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on over the internet. Those are not reported to the police. It doesn't

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include shoplifting. Lots and lots of crime which are very prevalent

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but not captured in the survey. Somehow, it has become a sacred cow,

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which is not open to question. The coverage of what is really going on

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with crime is extremely livid -- extremely limited and always has

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been. That has become more so as forms of property crime has changed.

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Here in the studio is the Hampshire Police and Crime Commissioner. Do

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you trust these figures customer -- these figures customer it is

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important that the public trustees figures and I have a responsibility

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to prevent reoffending. But how can the public or do you trust the

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figures when they did not include things like the problems with

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shoplifting, ten crimes being counted as one, as the place

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federation pointed? Domestic violence seemed to continue at the

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same level, and yet, the figures say you're doing marvellous. When we

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give the public don't have confidence in crime recording, that

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is of great concern to me. What we're looking at in Hampshire,

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particularly around business crime, I have spoken to the Federation of

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Small Businesses. Business crime should be taken more seriously in

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terms of recording in Hampshire. some people don't even reported to

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the place when the destroyed and maybe just pay the money back to

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someone. That shouldn't carry on, surely? People should report crime

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to the police and we would ask that people do report crimes. What we

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have seen in this round of statistics is a clear route duction

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of crime in a number of years, not just the last 12 months. That's

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where you can do something, isn't it, because people should be getting

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crime numbers from the police and the place should be interested. When

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someone goes to the man says, I'm suspicious about this, a lot of the

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time, the impression is that the police aren't interested. I think

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one of the things that will come out of this is that that interest will

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be found to be in within -- will be found to be within the police

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constabulary. And the policing plan I have an Isle of Wight in the next

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five years, there are targets and elements that the police will need

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to look at. But they will meet the targets because they will find a way

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of gaining these figures. It is what is happening in education and Health

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Service. There is no advantage in the police constabulary fiddling the

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figures, and I am the Chief Constable in Hampshire and Isle of

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Wight, and I'm keen to make sure that will not happen. Phillip Lee,

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do you think this chasing after targets and statistics is a good

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thing? It'll all be seen to the public that the target has been

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achieved, and they put -- and yet, the perception as it is not. I am

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not a great fan of targets. I blame the previous Government for that.

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The public want to perceive that things are being chest and

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perceived. -- are being achieved. You would expect at a time of

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economic distress for crime to go up significantly. I'm not suggesting it

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is a perfect survey. It is internationally recognised, I might

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add. It is respected. But, of course there is more work to do. My

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personal position is that targets in politics has got us into that God is

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in the past. Is getting us into over crime? The reduction of crime is to

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be welcomed. Is it? Can we believe it? There are new crowns emerging

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because of technology. Would you have said that six years ago?

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sitting in Cabinet and Alan Johnson telling us that crime figures had

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reduced. At that like exam inflation. Every year, they do

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better. There are important trends to keep an eye out for. There is

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evidence through Freedom of information requests. Community

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resolution requests have gone up in four years for violent crimes as

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well. That is the thousand violent crimes are not being recorded.

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People aren't getting a criminal record for them. Thank you very

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much. Now for our regular round-up of the

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political week in the South in 60 seconds. This week, we're out on the

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beat. If we all walked an extra ten

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minutes a day, it would save the National Health Service millions. In

:57:33.:57:36.

Reading, they are saving money for local schools and saving lives,

:57:36.:57:42.

counting each step of 20 -- 33,000 people. That would save six lives

:57:42.:57:49.

every year. Chris Huhne what from prison after serving two months for

:57:49.:57:56.

lying about driving too fast. His dad drove him home. The Thames

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Valley -- the Thames Valley crankiness and finally got itself a

:57:59.:58:07.

chauffeur and bad publicity over expensive. The police are trying to

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recruit new Polish speaking PCSO's. South Central ambulance say the mean

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annual -- say their engines will be told of when training. In Hampshire,

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to police patrol cars were used to escort a mobility scooter. A

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passerby found the convoy. You've got to love that someone stuck there

:58:38.:58:44.

and Eddie Carter recalled that, haven't you? Technology, it is

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great, but could we do it a bit more walking question might -- a bit more

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walking? My wife would say I could do with a rest from my technology.

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The sweet and drink, don't tweet and walk the dog. And not convinced

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technologies making us healthier. I think we're becoming obsessed with

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immediacy and not thinking and reflecting enough upon life. I am

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not a huge fan of technology, in some ways. Clearly there are bits of

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it that are great, not least of which someone filming something

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rather daft on the road. But we are all connected everywhere. We have

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statistics. We have solar panels on some of those are nuances. It is

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saving the planet, isn't it? That is a good thing. Let's not overdo it

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with how much solar panels save the planet, but yes, it is technology

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that is making a positive impact, and that is to be celebrated.

:59:45.:59:51.

only space committee, Alger got a Mac -- you are only space

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committee, Alger? I am. I have any lot of work on technology, and and

:59:59.:00:02.

have seen the positive effects it can have on learning, I can see the

:00:02.:00:07.

way it has disrupted some things. Economically, there are bad things,

:00:07.:00:12.

but the away out weighed by the good things.

:00:12.:00:18.

Andrew Neil and Peter Henley are joined by the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Danny Alexander and discuss Conservative UKIP electoral pacts with Conservative MPs Jacob Rees-Mogg and Jackie Doyle-Price. As well as all of the weekend's other political news, and debate with the weekly panel of journalists.


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