Browse content similar to 10/11/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Ed Miliband's on | :00:35. | :00:41. | |
the war path over pay day loans, your energy bill and what he calls | :00:42. | :00:46. | |
the bedroom tax. His spinners say he's resurgent though the polls | :00:47. | :00:51. | |
don't show it. We'll be talking to his right hand woman, Labour's | :00:52. | :00:54. | |
Deputy Leader, Harriet Harman. From resurgent to insurgent. Nigel Farage | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
won an award this week for being a political insurgent. We'll be | :01:00. | :01:07. | |
talking to the UKIP leader. And Harriet hates, hates, hates page | :01:08. | :01:10. | |
three. She wants rid of it. But what do you think? We sent Adam out with | :01:11. | :01:13. | |
some balls. Stay. It is good fun for In the South, normal shipbuilding in | :01:14. | :01:31. | |
Portsmouth. Workers come to terms with | :01:32. | :01:32. | |
It is free choice. In London, the row over the super sewer rumbles on. | :01:33. | :01:45. | |
And with me, fresh from their success at yesterday's Star Wars | :01:46. | :01:49. | |
auditions, Darth Vader. Obi Wan Kenobi and R2D2. Congratulations on | :01:50. | :01:55. | |
your new jobs. We'll miss you. Nick Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh. | :01:56. | :01:59. | |
First, the talks with Iran in Geneva. They ended last night | :02:00. | :02:02. | |
without agreement despite hopes of a breakthrough. America and its allies | :02:03. | :02:13. | |
didn't think Iran was prepared to go far enough to freeze its nuclear | :02:14. | :02:16. | |
programme. But some progress has been made and there's to be another | :02:17. | :02:19. | |
meeting in ten days' time, though at a lower level. The Foreign | :02:20. | :02:22. | |
Secretary, William Hague, had this to say a little earlier. On the | :02:23. | :02:25. | |
question of, or will it happen in the next few weeks? There is a good | :02:26. | :02:34. | |
chance of that. We will be trying again on 20th, 21st of November and | :02:35. | :02:40. | |
negotiators will be trying again. We will keep an enormous amount of | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
energy and persistence behind solving this. Will that be a deal | :02:46. | :02:53. | |
which will please everyone? No, it will not. Compromises will need to | :02:54. | :02:59. | |
be made. I had discussions with Israeli ministers yesterday and put | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
the case for the kind of deal we are looking | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
the case for the kind of deal we are interests of the whole world, | :03:09. | :03:09. | |
including interests of the whole world, | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
the world, to reach a diplomatic agreement we can be confident in in | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
this issue. This otherwise will threaten the world with nuclear | :03:20. | :03:23. | |
proliferation and conflict in the future. The interesting thing about | :03:24. | :03:26. | |
this is that it seems future. The interesting thing about | :03:27. | :03:35. | |
prepared to go far enough over the Iraq heavy water plutonium reactor | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
it is building. The people who took the toughest line - the French. | :03:41. | :03:52. | |
France has always had a pretty tough line on Iran. They see it as a | :03:53. | :03:59. | |
disruptive influence in Lebanon I am reasonably optimistic a deal will | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
be done later this month when the talks reconvene. Western economic | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
sanctions have had such an impact on Iran domestic league. They have | :04:09. | :04:15. | |
pushed inflation up to 40%. Dashes-macro domestically. The new | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
president had a campaign pledge saying, I will deal with sanctions. | :04:22. | :04:28. | |
I actually think, by the end of this year, we will see progress in these | :04:29. | :04:36. | |
talks. Should we be optimistic? The next round of talks will be at | :04:37. | :04:43. | |
official level. The place to watch will be Israel. The language which | :04:44. | :04:48. | |
has been coming out of there is still incredibly angry, incredibly | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
defensive. They do not want a deal at all. Presumably John Kerry has to | :04:54. | :05:03. | |
go away and tried to get Israel to be quiet about it, even if they | :05:04. | :05:12. | |
cannot be happy about it. They cannot agree to a deal which allows | :05:13. | :05:22. | |
the Iraq reactor with plutonium heavy water. You do not need that | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
with a peaceful nuclear power programme will stop that is why the | :05:27. | :05:34. | |
Israelis are so nervous. If there is an international deal, Israel could | :05:35. | :05:41. | |
still bomb that but it would be impossible. The French tactics are | :05:42. | :05:48. | |
interesting. It says the French blocked it in part because they are | :05:49. | :05:53. | |
trying to carry favour with Israel but also the Gulf Arab states, who | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
are really nervous about and Iranians nuclear capability. Who is | :06:00. | :06:04. | |
that? Saudi Arabia. Newsnight had a story saying that Pakistan is | :06:05. | :06:11. | |
prepared to provide them with nuclear weapons. You are right about | :06:12. | :06:18. | |
Saudi Arabia. They are much more against this deal than Israel. Who | :06:19. | :06:24. | |
is Herman van Rompuy's favourite MEP? It is probably not Nigel | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
Farage. He plummeted to the bottom of the EU president's Christmas card | :06:29. | :06:31. | |
list after comparing him to a bank clerk with the charisma of a damp | :06:32. | :06:35. | |
rag. And he's been at it again this week. Have a look. Today is November | :06:36. | :06:45. | |
the 5th, a big celebration festival day in England. That was an attempt | :06:46. | :06:49. | |
to blow up the Houses of Parliament with dynamite and destroy the | :06:50. | :06:52. | |
Constitution. You have taken the Dahl, technocratic approach to all | :06:53. | :06:59. | |
of these things. What you and your colleagues save time and again you | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
talk about initiatives and what you are going to do about unemployment. | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
The reality is nothing in this union is getting better. The accounts have | :07:10. | :07:15. | |
not been signed off for 18 years. I am now told it is 19 and you are | :07:16. | :07:20. | |
doing your best to tone down any criticism. Whatever growth figures | :07:21. | :07:24. | |
you may have, they are anaemic. Youth unemployment in the | :07:25. | :07:29. | |
Mediterranean is over 50% in several states. You will notice there is a | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
rise in opposition dashed real opposition. Much of it ugly | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
opposition, not stuff that I would want to link hands with. And Nigel | :07:40. | :07:47. | |
Farage joins me now. Let me put to you what the editor of the Sun had | :07:48. | :07:55. | |
to say. He says, UKIP will peak at the European election and then it | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
will begin to get marginalised as we get closer to 2015 because there is | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
now that clear blue water between Labour and the Tories. What do you | :08:05. | :08:11. | |
say to that? There may be layered blue water on energy pricing but on | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
Eastern Europe, there is no difference at all. When Ed Miliband | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
offers the referendum to match Cameron, even that argument on | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
Europe will be gone. The one thing that will keep UKIP strong, heading | :08:26. | :08:31. | |
towards 2015, is if people think in some constituencies we can win. I | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
cannot sit here right now and say that will be the case. If we get | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
over the hurdle of the European elections clearly, I think there | :08:41. | :08:44. | |
will be grounds to say that UKIP can win seats in Westminster. You are | :08:45. | :08:51. | |
going to run? Without a shadow of a doubt. I do not know which | :08:52. | :08:57. | |
constituency. The welcome I got in Edinburgh was not that friendly | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
Edinburgh is not everything in Scotland. I think we have a | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
realistic chance of winning those elections. If we do that, we will | :09:07. | :09:12. | |
have the momentum behind us. You might be the biggest party after the | :09:13. | :09:17. | |
May elections. The National front is likely to do very well in France as | :09:18. | :09:23. | |
well. They have won the crucial by-election in the South of France. | :09:24. | :09:28. | |
Have you talked about joining full season in Parliament? The leader has | :09:29. | :09:38. | |
tried to take the movement into a different direction than her father. | :09:39. | :09:42. | |
The man she beat, to become leader, actually attended the BNP | :09:43. | :09:48. | |
conference. The problem she has with her party and we have with her party | :09:49. | :09:52. | |
is that anti-Semitism is too deep and we will not be doing a deal with | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
the French national government. You can guarantee you will not be | :09:58. | :10:04. | |
joining such groups. I can guarantee that. Let's move on to Europe. Let's | :10:05. | :10:11. | |
accept that the pro-Europeans exaggerate the loss of jobs that | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
would follow the departure of Britain from the UK. Is there no | :10:16. | :10:23. | |
risk of jobs whatsoever? No risk whatsoever. There is no risk at all. | :10:24. | :10:31. | |
There have been some weak and lazy arguments put around about this We | :10:32. | :10:39. | |
will go on doing business - go on doing trade with Europe. We will | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
have increased opportunities to do trade deals with the rest of the | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
world and they will create jobs The head of Nissan, the head of Hitachi | :10:50. | :10:58. | |
and CBI many other voices in British business, when they all expressed | :10:59. | :11:06. | |
concern about the potential loss of jobs and incoming investment, we | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
should just ignore them. With Nissan, the BBC News is making this | :11:12. | :11:21. | |
a huge story. The boss did not say what was reported. He said there was | :11:22. | :11:27. | |
a potential danger to his future investment. They have already made | :11:28. | :11:32. | |
the investments. They have built the plant in Sunderland, which they say | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
is operating well. We should be careful of what bosses of big | :11:37. | :11:41. | |
businesses say. This man said they may have two leaves Sunderland if we | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
did not join the euro. I do not take that seriously. As for the CBI, they | :11:47. | :11:50. | |
wanted us to join the euro and now they do not. Even within the CBI, | :11:51. | :11:55. | |
there is a significant minority saying, we do not agree with what | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
the CBI director-general is saying. The former boss of the organisation | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
is saying we need a referendum and we need a referendum soon. It | :12:05. | :12:11. | |
depends on the renegotiation. There is not the uniformity. What we are | :12:12. | :12:17. | |
beginning to see in the world, is, manufacturing and small businesses | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
are a lot more voices saying, the costs of membership outweigh any | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
potential benefit. If you look at the polls, if Mr Cameron does | :12:26. | :12:35. | |
repatriate some powers and he joins with Labour, the Lib Dems, the | :12:36. | :12:42. | |
Nationalists in Scotland and Wales, most of business, all of the unions | :12:43. | :12:46. | |
to say we should stay in, you are going to lose, aren't you? In 1 75, | :12:47. | :12:55. | |
the circumstances were exactly the same. Mr Wilson promised a | :12:56. | :12:58. | |
renegotiation and he got very little. The establishment gathered | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
around him and they voted for us to stay in. I do not think that will | :13:03. | :13:09. | |
happen now. The scales have fallen. We do not want to be governed by | :13:10. | :13:15. | |
Herman Van Rompuy and these people. These people are Eurosceptic but | :13:16. | :13:18. | |
they do not seem to feel strongly enough about it that they are going | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
to defy all the major parties they vote for, companies that employ | :13:24. | :13:29. | |
them, unions they are members of. I am absolutely confident there will | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
be a lot voices in business saying, we need to take this opportunity to | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
break free, give ourselves a chance of a low regulation lowball trader. | :13:39. | :13:50. | |
-- global trade. In 1970 53 small publications said to vote yes. I am | :13:51. | :14:07. | |
not contemplating losing. The most important thing is to get the | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
referendum. If UKIP is not strong, there will not be a referendum. | :14:13. | :14:18. | |
Earlier in the year, your party issued a leaflet about the remaining | :14:19. | :14:21. | |
sample parents being able to come to this country. The EU will allow 29 | :14:22. | :14:27. | |
million Bulgarians and remaining is to come to the UK. That is | :14:28. | :14:38. | |
technically correct but we both know that is not the case. It is an open | :14:39. | :14:49. | |
door to these people. Why take the risk? By make out there are 29 | :14:50. | :15:00. | |
million people? I stand by that verdict. It is an open door. 29 | :15:01. | :15:10. | |
million are not going to come. They can if they want. Also 29 million | :15:11. | :15:16. | |
people from France can come. After these countries have joined, we will | :15:17. | :15:21. | |
do another leaflet saying that Mr Cameron wants to open the door to 70 | :15:22. | :15:28. | |
million people from Turkey. That is scaremongering. I would not say | :15:29. | :15:36. | |
that. We have a million young British workers between 16 and 4 | :15:37. | :15:40. | |
without work. A lot of them want work and we do not need another | :15:41. | :15:44. | |
massive oversupply in the unskilled labour market. Why did you have such | :15:45. | :15:49. | |
a bad time on question Time this week? The folk that did not buy your | :15:50. | :16:00. | |
anti-immigration stick. Do you think that group of people in the room was | :16:01. | :16:03. | |
representative of the voters of Boston? What would make you think it | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
was unrepresentative? When the county council elections took place | :16:09. | :16:11. | |
this year in Boston, of the seven seats, UKIP won five and almost won | :16:12. | :16:15. | |
the other two. I don't think that audience reflected that, but that | :16:16. | :16:19. | |
doesn't matter. How an audience is put together, how a panel is put | :16:20. | :16:23. | |
together, on one programme, it doesn't mean much at all. It shows | :16:24. | :16:28. | |
that your anti-immigrant measure doesn't fly as easily as you hoped | :16:29. | :16:32. | |
it would? The opinion polls which will be launched on Monday that we | :16:33. | :16:35. | |
are conducting and nearing completion, they show two things. | :16:36. | :16:40. | |
Firstly, an astonishing number of people who think it's irresponsible | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
and wrong to open the doer to Romania and Bulgaria, secondly and | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
crucially, a number of people whose vote in the European elections and | :16:50. | :16:52. | |
subsequent general elections may be determined by the immigration | :16:53. | :16:55. | |
issues. This does matter. It would be the perfect run group the | :16:56. | :16:58. | |
European elections in May for you if a lot of Bulgarians and remainians | :16:59. | :17:03. | |
flooded in. You would like that to happen? I think it will happen. | :17:04. | :17:07. | |
Whether I like it or not, it will happen. You think it will be good | :17:08. | :17:11. | |
for you, it will stir things up If you say to people in poor countries, | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
you can come here, get a job, have a safety net of a benefits system | :17:17. | :17:21. | |
claim child allowance for your kids in Bucharest, people will come You | :17:22. | :17:25. | |
are ready with the arguments already? You will be disappointed if | :17:26. | :17:30. | |
only ten turn up? Whether lots come or not we should. Taking the risk | :17:31. | :17:33. | |
and yes, we are going to make it a major issue in the European | :17:34. | :17:36. | |
election. Let's leave it there. Thank you very much, Nigel Farage. | :17:37. | :17:40. | |
The summer of 2013 was not good for Ed Miliband, with questions over his | :17:41. | :17:44. | |
leadership, low ratings and complaints about no policies. He | :17:45. | :17:47. | |
bounced back with a vengeance at the Labour Conference in September, | :17:48. | :17:51. | |
delivering a speech which this week won the spectator political speech | :17:52. | :17:55. | |
of the year aword. In that speech he focussed on the cost-of-living and | :17:56. | :17:58. | |
promised a temporary freeze on energy prices. Even said this. The | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
next election isn't just going to be about policy. It's going to be about | :18:04. | :18:10. | |
how we lead and the character we show. I've got a message for the | :18:11. | :18:17. | |
Tories today. If they want to have a debate, about leadership and | :18:18. | :18:26. | |
character, be my guest And if you want to know the difference between | :18:27. | :18:30. | |
me and David Cameron, here is an easy way to remember it. When it was | :18:31. | :18:35. | |
Murdoch v the McCanns, he took the side of Murdoch. When it was the | :18:36. | :18:40. | |
tobacco lobby versus the cancer charities, he took the side of the | :18:41. | :18:44. | |
tobacco lobby. When the millionaires wanted a tax cut as people pay the | :18:45. | :18:49. | |
bedroom tax, he took the side of the millionaires. A come to think of it, | :18:50. | :18:53. | |
here is an easier way to remember it. David Cameron was a Prime | :18:54. | :18:56. | |
Minister who introduced the bedroom tax. I'll be the Prime Minister who | :18:57. | :19:05. | |
repeals the bedroom tax There we go, that will go down with the party | :19:06. | :19:11. | |
faithful on Tuesday. There will be a debate on the bedroom tax. Labour's | :19:12. | :19:16. | |
Deputy Leader, Harriet Harman, joints me now. Let's begin with the | :19:17. | :19:25. | |
bedroom tax or bedroom subsidy. Nearly 11% of people who've come off | :19:26. | :19:30. | |
Housing Benefits all together after their spare room subsidy was | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
stopped, isn't that proof that reform was necessary? No. I think | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
that the whole way that the bet room tax has been attempted to be | :19:40. | :19:42. | |
justified is completely wrong. What it's said is that it will actually | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
help take people off the waiting lists by putting them into homes | :19:47. | :19:51. | |
that have been vacated by people who've downsized by being | :19:52. | :19:56. | |
incentivised by the bedroom tax so basically if you are a council | :19:57. | :19:59. | |
tenant or Housing Association tenant in a property with spare bedrooms, | :20:00. | :20:04. | |
then because the penalty is imposed, you will move to a smaller property. | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
That is the justification for it. But actually, something like 96 of | :20:09. | :20:11. | |
the people who're going to be hit by the bedroom tax, there isn't a | :20:12. | :20:14. | |
smaller property for them to move into. I understand that. Therefore | :20:15. | :20:18. | |
they are, like the people in my constituency, if they have got one | :20:19. | :20:22. | |
spare bedroom, they are hit by 700 a year extra to pay and that is | :20:23. | :20:29. | |
completely unfair As a consequence of people losing the subsidy for | :20:30. | :20:33. | |
their spare room, they have decided to go out and get work and not | :20:34. | :20:37. | |
depend on Housing Benefit at all? 11% of them. What's wrong with that? | :20:38. | :20:42. | |
Well, they are going to review the way 2 the bedroom tax is working. | :20:43. | :20:47. | |
What is wrong with that? But that's not working. That's the result of | :20:48. | :20:52. | |
Freedom of Information, 141 councils provided the figures, 25,000 who've | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
come off benefits, of the 233,0 0 affected, it's about 11%. These | :20:58. | :21:00. | |
people were clearly able to get a job was having the Housing Benefit | :21:01. | :21:05. | |
in the first place? But of course the people who're on the benefits | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
who're not in work are always looking for work and many of them | :21:10. | :21:12. | |
will find work which is a good thing, but for those who don't find | :21:13. | :21:17. | |
work, or who find work where it s low-paid and need help with their | :21:18. | :21:21. | |
rent, it's wrong to penalise them on the basis of the fact that their | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
family might have grown up and moved away and so you have either got to | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
move out of your home, away from your family and your neighbourhood, | :21:30. | :21:33. | |
or you've got to stay where you are and, despite the fact that you are | :21:34. | :21:37. | |
low-paid or unemployed, you have got to find an extra ?700 a year because | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
of your rent. So it's very unfair The Government that was | :21:43. | :21:45. | |
commissioning independent research on the impact of this work change | :21:46. | :21:50. | |
and welfare policy, particularly on the impact on the most vulnerable, | :21:51. | :21:53. | |
some of which you have been talking about there, shouldn't they have | :21:54. | :21:56. | |
waited until you have got the independent research, that | :21:57. | :21:59. | |
independent investigation before determining your policy? No. In | :22:00. | :22:02. | |
fact, the Government should have waited until they'd have done their | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
independent research before they bought into effect something and | :22:08. | :22:10. | |
imposed it on people in a way which is really unfair. They could have | :22:11. | :22:17. | |
known. Why didn't you wait? What they could have done is, they could | :22:18. | :22:20. | |
have asked councils, are people going to be able to Manifest into | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
smaller homes if we impose the bedroom tax and the answer from | :22:26. | :22:28. | |
councils and Housing Associations would have been no, they can't move | :22:29. | :22:31. | |
into smaller homes because which haven't got them there. They should | :22:32. | :22:35. | |
have done the evaluation before they introduced the policy. We are | :22:36. | :22:39. | |
absolutely clear and you can see the evidence, people are falling into | :22:40. | :22:43. | |
rent arrears. Many people, it's a terrifying thing to find that you | :22:44. | :22:46. | |
can't pay your rent, and some of the people go to payday loan companies | :22:47. | :22:51. | |
to get loans to pay their rent. It is very, very unfair. The | :22:52. | :22:55. | |
justification for it, which is people will move, is completely | :22:56. | :22:59. | |
bogus. There aren't places for them to go. On the wider issue of welfare | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
reform, a call for the TUC showed that voters support the Government's | :23:06. | :23:08. | |
welfare reforms, including a majority of Labour voters. Why are | :23:09. | :23:13. | |
you so out of touch on welfare issues, even with your own | :23:14. | :23:16. | |
supporters? Nobody wants to see people who could be in a job | :23:17. | :23:20. | |
actually living at the taxpayers' expense. That's why we have said | :23:21. | :23:25. | |
that we'll introduce a compulsory jobs guarantee, so that if you are a | :23:26. | :23:28. | |
young person who's been unemployed for a year, you will have to take a | :23:29. | :23:32. | |
job absolutely have to take a job, and if you have been unemployed as | :23:33. | :23:37. | |
somebody over 25, there'll be a compulsory thing after two years of | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
unemployment. So if you have been on welfare two years? So the main issue | :23:42. | :23:45. | |
about the welfare bill actually is people who're in retirement who need | :23:46. | :23:50. | |
support. We have said for the richest pensioners, they shouldn't | :23:51. | :23:53. | |
have to pay their winter fuel allowance. My point wasn't abouts | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
the sub stance, it's about how you don't reflect public opinion -- | :23:59. | :24:02. | |
substance. The Parliamentary aid said the political backlog of | :24:03. | :24:07. | |
benefits and social security is "not yet one that we have won. Labour | :24:08. | :24:12. | |
must accept that they are not convincing on these matters,". Well, | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
redo have to convince people and explain the policies we have got and | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
the view we take. So, for example, for pensioners, who're well off we | :24:23. | :24:25. | |
are saying they don't need the Winter Fuel Payment that. 's me | :24:26. | :24:27. | |
saying to you and us saying to people in this country, we do think | :24:28. | :24:32. | |
that there should be that tightening. For young people, who've | :24:33. | :24:36. | |
been unemployed, they should be offered jobs but they've got to take | :24:37. | :24:39. | |
them. So yes, we have to make our case. OK. The energy freeze which we | :24:40. | :24:45. | |
showed there, on the speech, as popular. The living wage proseles | :24:46. | :24:49. | |
have been going down well as well. Why is Labour's lead oaf the | :24:50. | :24:53. | |
Conservatives being cut to 6% in the latest polls? Ed Miliband's own | :24:54. | :24:57. | |
personal approval rating's gotten worse. Why is that? I'm not going to | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
disdues ins and outs of weekly opinion polls with you or anybody | :25:03. | :25:07. | |
else because I'm not a political commentator, but let me say to you | :25:08. | :25:10. | |
the facts of what's happened since Ed Miliband's been leader of the | :25:11. | :25:16. | |
Labour Party. We have got 1,950 New Labour councillors, all of those... | :25:17. | :25:22. | |
But you're... All those who've won their seats against the | :25:23. | :25:24. | |
Conservatives or the Liberal Democrats and no, Andrew you don't | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
always get that in opposition. In 1997 after Tony Blair was elected, | :25:29. | :25:33. | |
the Tories carried on losing council seats. Exceptional circumstances and | :25:34. | :25:40. | |
these days Mr Blair was 25% ahead in the polls. You were six. The economy | :25:41. | :25:45. | |
grew at an annual rate of 3% in the third quarter just gone. Everybody, | :25:46. | :25:49. | |
private and public forecasters now saying that Britain in this coming | :25:50. | :25:53. | |
year will grow faster than France, Italy, Spain, even Germany will grow | :25:54. | :25:57. | |
faster. Your poll ratings are average when the economy was | :25:58. | :26:00. | |
flatlining, what happens to them when the economy starts to grow | :26:01. | :26:05. | |
Well, I've just said to you, I'm not a political commentator or a pundit | :26:06. | :26:10. | |
on opinion polls. We are putting policies forward and we are holding | :26:11. | :26:13. | |
the Government to account for what they are doing and we think that | :26:14. | :26:17. | |
what they did opt economy pulled the plugs from the economy, delayed the | :26:18. | :26:21. | |
recovery, made it stagnate and we have had three years lost growth. I | :26:22. | :26:24. | |
understand that, but it's now starting to grow. Indeed. If you are | :26:25. | :26:31. | |
no political commentator, let me ask you this, you anticipated the | :26:32. | :26:34. | |
growth, so you switched your line to no growth to this is growth and | :26:35. | :26:38. | |
living standards are rising. If the economy does grow up towards 3% next | :26:39. | :26:42. | |
year, I would suggest that living standards probably will start to | :26:43. | :26:45. | |
rise with that amount of growth What do you do then? We have not | :26:46. | :26:49. | |
switched our line because the economy started to grow. All the way | :26:50. | :26:52. | |
along, we said the economy will recover, but it's been delayed and | :26:53. | :26:57. | |
we have had stagnation for far too long because of the economic | :26:58. | :27:01. | |
policies. We have been absolutely right to understand the concerns | :27:02. | :27:06. | |
people have and recognise that they are struggling with the | :27:07. | :27:09. | |
cost-of-living. Sure. And we are right to do that. What kind of | :27:10. | :27:13. | |
living standards stuck to rise next year? -- start to rise next year. I | :27:14. | :27:19. | |
hope they will. For 40 months of David Cameron's Prime Ministership, | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
for 39 of those, wages have risen slower than prices, so people are | :27:25. | :27:27. | |
worse off. I understand that. You will know that the broader | :27:28. | :27:32. | |
measurement, real household disposable income doesn't show that | :27:33. | :27:34. | |
decline because it takes everything into account. Going around the | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
country, people feel it. They say where's the recovery for me. Living | :27:40. | :27:46. | |
standards now start to rise? If that happens, what is your next line | :27:47. | :27:50. | |
There is a set of arguments about living standards, the National | :27:51. | :27:52. | |
Health Service, about the problems that there is in A, which caused | :27:53. | :27:58. | |
-- are caused by the organisation. I can put forward other lines. All | :27:59. | :28:04. | |
right. Let me ask you one other question If no newspapers have | :28:05. | :28:09. | |
signed up to the Government-backed Labour-backed Royal Charter on press | :28:10. | :28:13. | |
regular lace by 2015 and it looks like the way things are going none | :28:14. | :28:18. | |
will have, if you are in power, will a Labour Government legislate to | :28:19. | :28:22. | |
make them? They don't have to sign up to the Royal Charter, that's not | :28:23. | :28:26. | |
the system. What the Royal Charter does is create a recogniser and | :28:27. | :28:29. | |
basically says it's for the newspapers to set up their own | :28:30. | :28:33. | |
regulator. They are doing that. My question is... Let me finish. If | :28:34. | :28:37. | |
they decide to have nothing to do with the Royal Charter that was | :28:38. | :28:41. | |
decided in Miliband's office in the wee small hours, will you pass | :28:42. | :28:45. | |
legislation to make them? The newspapers are currently setting up | :28:46. | :28:49. | |
what they call... I know that, Harriet Harman. Just let me finish. | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
OK. Because the newspapers are setting up the independent Press | :28:55. | :28:57. | |
Standards Organisation. Right. If it is independent, as they say it is, | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
then the recogniser will simply say, we recognise that this is | :29:03. | :29:05. | |
independent and the whole point is that, in the past when there's been | :29:06. | :29:09. | |
skaen deals a tend press have really turned people's lives upside down | :29:10. | :29:13. | |
and the press have said OK we'll sort things out, leave it to us | :29:14. | :29:18. | |
then they have sorted things out but a few years later they have slipped | :29:19. | :29:21. | |
back, all this recogniser will do is check it once every three years and | :29:22. | :29:25. | |
say yes, you have got an independent system and it's remained independent | :29:26. | :29:29. | |
and therefore that is the guarantee things won't slip back. Very | :29:30. | :29:33. | |
interesting. Thank you for that That's really interesting that if | :29:34. | :29:37. | |
they get their act right, you won't force the alternative on them. We | :29:38. | :29:42. | |
want the system as set forward by Leveson which is not statute and | :29:43. | :29:48. | |
direct regulation. I want to stick with the press because I want to | :29:49. | :29:52. | |
ask, is this a British institution or an out-of-date image for a by | :29:53. | :29:56. | |
gone age. The Sun's Page 3 has been dividing the nation since it first | :29:57. | :30:01. | |
appeared way back in 1970. That s 43 years ago. Harriet Harman's called | :30:02. | :30:06. | |
for it to be removed, so we sent Adam out to ask whether the topless | :30:07. | :30:23. | |
photographs should stay or go. We have asked people if page three | :30:24. | :30:35. | |
should stay or go. Page three. What do you think? Nothing wrong with it | :30:36. | :30:45. | |
at all. I think it is cheap and exploits women. It is a family | :30:46. | :30:57. | |
newspaper. Should it stay or go Go. I will look like the bad guy. It | :30:58. | :31:07. | |
should go. You have changed your mind. It is free choice. Girls do | :31:08. | :31:17. | |
not have to be photographed. Old men get the paper just for that. Know | :31:18. | :31:30. | |
when your age does that? Not really. Dashes-macro know what your age | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
Page three girls, should they stay or go? I am not bothered. There are | :31:36. | :31:45. | |
other ways of getting noticed. Page three of the Sun newspaper every | :31:46. | :31:49. | |
day, there is a woman with no top on. We got rid of that about 40 | :31:50. | :31:58. | |
years ago in Australia. I am not in favour of censorship. It has been | :31:59. | :32:06. | |
long enough. It can stay there. What is wrong with it? We want to | :32:07. | :32:11. | |
encourage children to read the newspapers. I do not want my | :32:12. | :32:17. | |
children to look at that. It is degrading. Do you think we will see | :32:18. | :32:24. | |
the day when they get rid of it? Yes, I do. I am wondering if I can | :32:25. | :32:30. | |
turn this into some kind of a shelter. It is tipping it down. I | :32:31. | :32:43. | |
think the council should do something about their car parks! | :32:44. | :32:49. | |
Mother nature, the human body. It should stay. Is some people like it, | :32:50. | :32:58. | |
that is fine. I have nothing against it. You know what has surprised me, | :32:59. | :33:04. | |
lots of women saying it should stay. Maybe they are seeing it as | :33:05. | :33:11. | |
empowering. As I have a baby daughter in there, I am happy to see | :33:12. | :33:19. | |
it go. Imagine my grandad opening up his paper and they're being my bats! | :33:20. | :33:28. | |
It should go. There is nothing wrong with it. He wants it to go. What | :33:29. | :33:36. | |
about people who think that page three should be banned? Idiots. Do | :33:37. | :33:44. | |
you know a girl called Lacey, aged 22, from Bedford? Good luck to her. | :33:45. | :33:54. | |
I do not know her as a person that I have heard she is nice. What about | :33:55. | :34:00. | |
her decision to be on page three? Nothing to lose. Do you think she | :34:01. | :34:09. | |
has made Bedford proud? That is not hard. What have we learned? More | :34:10. | :34:16. | |
people want page three to stay down for it to go. Most people do not | :34:17. | :34:26. | |
really seem to care, do they? You have heard a range of views. I am | :34:27. | :34:32. | |
not arguing it should be banned. I have not argued for it to be banned | :34:33. | :34:38. | |
but I have disapproved of it since the 1970s. You do not think it | :34:39. | :34:50. | |
should be banned? I do not think there should be dictating content | :34:51. | :34:54. | |
but I do think, if you arrive from outer space in this country in | :34:55. | :34:58. | |
21st-century Britain, and asked yourself what was the role of women | :34:59. | :35:04. | |
in society... To stand in their knickers and nothing else, I think | :35:05. | :35:08. | |
women have more to aspire to than to be able to take their clothes off in | :35:09. | :35:19. | |
public. The sun no longer has the circulation, or the political | :35:20. | :35:22. | |
importance, that it had in the 1980s when page three was at its height. | :35:23. | :35:27. | |
Aren't people just voting with their feet anyway? The market is sorting | :35:28. | :35:34. | |
this out. Half the number of people buy it now than they did 20 years | :35:35. | :35:39. | |
ago. Until the time the sun does not have page three any more, I am | :35:40. | :35:44. | |
entitled to my view that it is outdated and wrong. I am happy to | :35:45. | :35:51. | |
establish that you do not want to ban it. What should happen? Should | :35:52. | :36:01. | |
people boycott the paper? I have never implied or said it should be | :36:02. | :36:06. | |
banned. I have always been forthright. Should people boycott | :36:07. | :36:13. | |
the paper? I have not called for a boycott. The women's movement, of | :36:14. | :36:19. | |
which I am part, and this is not about politicians censoring the | :36:20. | :36:23. | |
press. I am part of the movement which says women can do better than | :36:24. | :36:30. | |
taking off their clothes and being in their knickers in the newspapers. | :36:31. | :36:37. | |
Why don't you do something about it? I am doing something about it by | :36:38. | :36:43. | |
saying it is outdated. I am not doing anything more about it. Should | :36:44. | :36:49. | |
people buy the paper as long as there is a page three? Would you | :36:50. | :36:54. | |
like to say to viewers, as long as page three is in the sand, you | :36:55. | :37:02. | |
should not buy it? Dashes-macro be Son. I am saying, wake up to what | :37:03. | :37:07. | |
the role of women in society should be, which is more than page three. | :37:08. | :37:12. | |
If they changed it in Australia, which is where Rupert Murdoch came | :37:13. | :37:18. | |
from, why can they not change it in this country? You're watching the | :37:19. | :37:22. | |
Sunday Politics. Coming up in just over 20 minutes... I'll be talking | :37:23. | :37:24. | |
to man leading the campaign Welcome To Sunday Politics South, My | :37:25. | :37:37. | |
Name's Peter Henley. On Today's Show: The End Of Shipbuilding In | :37:38. | :37:40. | |
Portsmouth. What Future Now For The Workers | :37:41. | :37:43. | |
Affected, Industry In The City, And The Wider Economy Of South | :37:44. | :37:50. | |
Hampshire? More Than That Soon. Let's Meet The | :37:51. | :37:57. | |
Politicians Who Will Be With Me. Alan Whitehead is the Labour MP for | :37:58. | :38:03. | |
Southampton. A lot of job losses this week. Is this a reminder that | :38:04. | :38:09. | |
the recovery has not reached everyone? It is a patchy recovery. | :38:10. | :38:18. | |
It is a recovery that seems to be concentrated in London more than | :38:19. | :38:24. | |
anywhere else. The news and the effects across the rest of the | :38:25. | :38:27. | |
country are very uneven. A number of con `` a number of companies will | :38:28. | :38:33. | |
suffer badly from a very long time. These are some of the results. A lot | :38:34. | :38:41. | |
of people still under wages. It is the tail end. There are real green | :38:42. | :38:46. | |
shoots coming out. These are two industries you have talk about that | :38:47. | :38:54. | |
have issues there. A lot of skilled people. And a lot of people with | :38:55. | :39:00. | |
that huge amount of corporate knowledge and skills. We need to | :39:01. | :39:05. | |
think about how we capture that. That has happened again. We have had | :39:06. | :39:14. | |
Pfizer in Kent. We need to capture knowledge because they do not want | :39:15. | :39:20. | |
to lose it out of the country. The cost of living aspect is very | :39:21. | :39:24. | |
important, isn't it? People do not have money in their pockets. Maybe | :39:25. | :39:27. | |
month `` maybe confidence could go away. Recovery from recession has to | :39:28. | :39:33. | |
start being felt in people's pockets as well. That is not the case at the | :39:34. | :39:41. | |
moment. It also has to be felt in terms of building those sorts of | :39:42. | :39:43. | |
industries in the longer term that are going to be durable for the | :39:44. | :39:48. | |
South. And the idea that the South is just the engine of the economy | :39:49. | :39:54. | |
and is not subject to the sort of problems is completely false. It | :39:55. | :39:58. | |
shows just how much work we need to do to make sure those industries | :39:59. | :40:04. | |
work. If we came out all guns blazing from a recession, you would | :40:05. | :40:07. | |
be really worried about that. It is a very, very slow coming out, which | :40:08. | :40:12. | |
will probably mean we have sound foundations. There are new | :40:13. | :40:16. | |
businesses coming and people are developing. I was speaking to a | :40:17. | :40:21. | |
company last night, order books are full. Rolls`Royce in Chichester is | :40:22. | :40:29. | |
expanding. We have some growth. But actually, out of any recession, it | :40:30. | :40:32. | |
is a slow and steady growth that you want. You do not want a Big Bang, | :40:33. | :40:42. | |
because you will go bust again. It has been a week of bad employment | :40:43. | :40:47. | |
news in the South and the worst was undoubtedly on Wednesday with the | :40:48. | :40:49. | |
announcement that shipbuilding in Portsmouth would cease from next | :40:50. | :40:52. | |
year, with the loss of around 1,100 jobs at BAE Systems. There will | :40:53. | :40:55. | |
still be refurbishment and repair work done on Royal Navy ships but | :40:56. | :40:59. | |
any building work now transfers to Govan on the Clyde. Was it all dirty | :41:00. | :41:02. | |
politics, muddied by the Scottish referendum, as some have claimed, or | :41:03. | :41:05. | |
an acknowledgement that there just isn't enough work to keep two yards | :41:06. | :41:08. | |
going? Gerald Vernon`Jackson is leader of Portsmouth City Council | :41:09. | :41:14. | |
and joins us now. Only ten months until the Scottish | :41:15. | :41:17. | |
referendum. Is there a point to just trying to keep BAE Systems all those | :41:18. | :41:22. | |
facilities available in case they are needed and what needs to be | :41:23. | :41:25. | |
brought back by the MOD into England? Yes. The decision was wrong | :41:26. | :41:31. | |
for Portsmouth and the whole of the South and wrong for the Navy and | :41:32. | :41:37. | |
Britain. Partly because the referendum is ten months away. Are | :41:38. | :41:40. | |
you aiming to keep those facilities in case they are needed for MOD | :41:41. | :41:46. | |
warship building? BAE say the last work will finish in September of | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
2014. The referendum is in October 2014. I hope they will not dismantle | :41:52. | :41:58. | |
things of that period. If Scotland does choose to go independent and | :41:59. | :42:03. | |
the work could come back down here to the South coast, the facilities | :42:04. | :42:12. | |
would remain. The City Council with a union campaign, will fight this | :42:13. | :42:17. | |
decision? We mustn't let it happen? There isn't a chancel decision to be | :42:18. | :42:21. | |
changed at the moment. But the referendum would change it? BAE as a | :42:22. | :42:27. | |
company has decided to move the work to Scotland. Government ministers | :42:28. | :42:30. | |
have clearly decided to support that. The Labour opposition front | :42:31. | :42:35. | |
bench have also decided to support that. I do not see any allies. Why | :42:36. | :42:39. | |
bother keeping those facilities open for warship building? Why not start | :42:40. | :42:45. | |
trying to building, as these people have suggested, move on and get a | :42:46. | :42:51. | |
better deal from the Government? We need to make sure we have the work | :42:52. | :42:54. | |
and people employed maintaining Royal Nagy `` Royal Navy ships. We | :42:55. | :43:00. | |
need to make sure that workers secure and we can grow that work. If | :43:01. | :43:03. | |
that is an ability to bring shipbuilding back to Portsmouth, | :43:04. | :43:07. | |
great. The record of UK shipbuilding competing with other countries | :43:08. | :43:10. | |
around the world is not good. When the Royal Navy went out to buy for | :43:11. | :43:15. | |
new tankers, no British yards bid. Nobody did. Nobody has the skills | :43:16. | :43:22. | |
any more left to be able to bid for that work. Once these skills go, it | :43:23. | :43:26. | |
is very, very difficult to rebuild them. I think we have to do a twin | :43:27. | :43:31. | |
track approach. We have to see if we can win more work for maintaining | :43:32. | :43:34. | |
ships in Portsmouth, so keeping on some of the guys that have lost jobs | :43:35. | :43:40. | |
this week. Still working with the Royal Navy, maintaining ships. It is | :43:41. | :43:43. | |
very similar skills and BAE wants to move people between the two areas. | :43:44. | :43:49. | |
But also, if it is possible to keep the facilities available so that | :43:50. | :43:52. | |
Scotland does Ford to become independent, the Royal Navy will not | :43:53. | :43:55. | |
have to go and buy ships from a foreign country, an independent | :43:56. | :43:58. | |
country, which they have never done. The Royal Navy has to have the | :43:59. | :44:02. | |
ability to build ships here in the United Kingdom. There was a lot of | :44:03. | :44:07. | |
politics in this. You talk about the Scottish decision. But you could see | :44:08. | :44:11. | |
the day was always going to come and you made the warnings about | :44:12. | :44:15. | |
Portsmouth. How much do feel stitched up by your own Government? | :44:16. | :44:20. | |
There is a long`term problem, which is we're not having enough warships | :44:21. | :44:24. | |
built. How much you feel stitched up? Can I answer the question? When | :44:25. | :44:33. | |
Mrs Thatcher became prime minister, we had 79 frigates and Destroyers. | :44:34. | :44:39. | |
Now we have 19. There just isn't the work. All parties have failed to | :44:40. | :44:44. | |
order enough ships so that our media just 30,000 people. We have shrunk | :44:45. | :44:51. | |
and shrunk and shone. `` and shrunk. Ministers have a sensible point that | :44:52. | :44:55. | |
there is not enough work. Maybe the question is, should we be building | :44:56. | :45:01. | |
more warships? Fine, but all over the years you have had discussions | :45:02. | :45:04. | |
in public or private with people, well below suggestions to you, | :45:05. | :45:07. | |
look, you will have to prepare for the closure of this yard? BAE | :45:08. | :45:13. | |
Systems have been quite clear that is not enough work, not enough | :45:14. | :45:16. | |
contracts given by the Government to sustain three yards. That has been | :45:17. | :45:22. | |
obvious. The agreement signed by the last Labour Government and BAE said | :45:23. | :45:27. | |
that the things would happen. BAE would be paid over ?200 million a | :45:28. | :45:31. | |
year for shipbuilding even if they build nothing by the Government. | :45:32. | :45:35. | |
Secondly, all shipbuilding should be consolidated in one company. And the | :45:36. | :45:38. | |
third thing was that ship loading should reduce. Rationalisation, they | :45:39. | :45:45. | |
call it. That was the agreement signed by the last Government and | :45:46. | :45:48. | |
BAE. This has been around for a long time. I do not think it is the right | :45:49. | :45:53. | |
decision, particularly not in the strategic sense, for the future of | :45:54. | :45:57. | |
the Royal Navy. We should retain somewhere in England the ability to | :45:58. | :46:01. | |
build advanced service warships. There will be many people, unions | :46:02. | :46:05. | |
included, who feel this is a decision that could be thought. | :46:06. | :46:12. | |
There's a Labour Party believe that? The position of the Labour Party is | :46:13. | :46:15. | |
rather nuanced terms of the idea that yes, the need to be a review. | :46:16. | :46:22. | |
And yes, there needed to be some coherence in future shipbuilding | :46:23. | :46:27. | |
policy. But it is quite clear that the decision that was reached on | :46:28. | :46:33. | |
this particular occasion, not just to consolidate shipbuilding but as | :46:34. | :46:39. | |
far as Portsmouth is concerned, to take the rest of the aircraft | :46:40. | :46:41. | |
carrier away in the end, even though that had been agreed so to be built | :46:42. | :46:46. | |
in Portsmouth. It seems to smack of a hurried endgame decision which | :46:47. | :46:52. | |
needn't have been done in that particular way. It could have been | :46:53. | :46:57. | |
planned for a rather different way. The Government needs to offer more | :46:58. | :47:02. | |
help, doesn't it? The review started about 18 months ago. I remember | :47:03. | :47:07. | |
talking about what if, about a year ago. It has been there. We know the | :47:08. | :47:13. | |
situation. We know the Government inherited a ?38 billion hole in | :47:14. | :47:20. | |
defence spending. Is this the Government are BAE decision? It is a | :47:21. | :47:27. | |
BAE decision. It is clearly be a decision. Making sure maintenance is | :47:28. | :47:31. | |
being run there and using those skills, it has got to be the way | :47:32. | :47:35. | |
forward. But not now hundred and 40 jobs. It is a really big thing. `` | :47:36. | :47:44. | |
940 jobs. Let's hope support does come. | :47:45. | :47:47. | |
And tomorrow night you can see an Inside Out special on Portsmouth. | :47:48. | :47:50. | |
They'll be looking at the background to the decision and its impact on | :47:51. | :47:53. | |
the families of those most affected. That's on BBC One at 7.30. | :47:54. | :47:56. | |
We all know that our ageing population is causing real | :47:57. | :47:59. | |
challenges for care providers, with all the tensions between people | :48:00. | :48:02. | |
wanting to stay in their own homes but maybe needing more intensive | :48:03. | :48:05. | |
care as they get older. As our Berkshire political reporter Patrick | :48:06. | :48:08. | |
O'Hagan has been finding out, the future could be in what are called | :48:09. | :48:14. | |
extra care homes. Meet Hannah. Two years ago, she | :48:15. | :48:18. | |
watched out of the window as one of the new generation of so`called | :48:19. | :48:21. | |
extra care homes was built for her. As well as 60 others. Now she is in, | :48:22. | :48:27. | |
she cannot imagine living anywhere else. It was just unbelievable. It | :48:28. | :48:33. | |
did not take me very long. Within one week, I had actually settled | :48:34. | :48:39. | |
here. The smell of boiled cabbage here. Everyone living here has their | :48:40. | :48:45. | |
own flat with ensuite facilities. You can mingle with others if you | :48:46. | :48:49. | |
want to, but that is not Hannah's style. I live in two worlds. I live | :48:50. | :48:55. | |
in the world downstairs and the world here. When I put Mike and my | :48:56. | :49:03. | |
daughter, this is my world. We are facing a crisis, a growing elderly | :49:04. | :49:09. | |
population and rising care costs calls for bold solutions. Extra care | :49:10. | :49:13. | |
homes do just that. They provide extra care. So when someone like | :49:14. | :49:19. | |
Hannah can no longer cope on their own, they moved to another part of | :49:20. | :49:21. | |
the building for more specialist help. Crucially, they are not moved | :49:22. | :49:27. | |
on to another home. There is more security knowing there is help there | :49:28. | :49:30. | |
if they need it. But also the Flex ability and freedom to be as | :49:31. | :49:33. | |
independent as they like. `` the flexibility. With ageing population, | :49:34. | :49:39. | |
that is what we need. We need more of these homes. Reading Borough | :49:40. | :49:46. | |
Council will be building to extra care homes in the next four years. | :49:47. | :49:50. | |
That is because the population of reading's over 85 is assessed to | :49:51. | :49:54. | |
double in the next two years. That means it is going up to around 6000 | :49:55. | :49:58. | |
people. Reading gave the land to this development free of charge. | :49:59. | :50:03. | |
Everything else was paid for by a housing association. It did not cost | :50:04. | :50:09. | |
Reading Borough Council taxpayers' money. It meant that the council had | :50:10. | :50:16. | |
to work very closely with the Housing Association and they were | :50:17. | :50:19. | |
able to finance it out of the rent they would get in the future. Sounds | :50:20. | :50:24. | |
pretty much like a private care home, really, the difference being | :50:25. | :50:28. | |
that Oaktree and the nuclear homes that the council wants to open the | :50:29. | :50:36. | |
building to people on benefits. `` will be open to people on benefits. | :50:37. | :50:43. | |
Some of the horns the council homes `` owns a 50 years old. It will | :50:44. | :50:47. | |
invest millions of pounds on the extra care model. Unlike reading, it | :50:48. | :50:51. | |
will be more involved in building the new facilities. The number of | :50:52. | :50:57. | |
people wanting to get into a residential home per se will be | :50:58. | :51:00. | |
going down, and I do think that extra care provision whether it is | :51:01. | :51:05. | |
an apartment where couples can live instead of splitting up couples as | :51:06. | :51:10. | |
often has to happen, I think for once it is looking better. But | :51:11. | :51:15. | |
before you can even think about opening new extra care homes, you | :51:16. | :51:20. | |
need to shut down older ones. That has caused problems in Hampshire. I | :51:21. | :51:26. | |
am broke extra care housing but it is not for people living and a care | :51:27. | :51:33. | |
home with dementia. They cannot live independently. They can never have | :51:34. | :51:36. | |
their own front door or key. We cannot do that. Our expectations for | :51:37. | :51:42. | |
how people like Hannah and ultimately ourselves should be | :51:43. | :51:46. | |
looked after arising. The dilemma for care providers is how to match | :51:47. | :51:50. | |
these expectations in a time where money is becoming increasingly | :51:51. | :51:57. | |
skills. `` skills. It is not for business, isn't it? | :51:58. | :52:01. | |
But it is staying ahead and providing what people want. You need | :52:02. | :52:06. | |
to build a range of options for people. We have all got elderly | :52:07. | :52:11. | |
people. It is great and it is fantastic. But various people need | :52:12. | :52:16. | |
these things from assisted technology to homes which are great | :52:17. | :52:21. | |
success. We have 12 in West Sussex across the county. How long have | :52:22. | :52:25. | |
they been operating? Over the last few years. People really enjoy it. | :52:26. | :52:33. | |
We're looking at another style of that at the moment and which we | :52:34. | :52:41. | |
might invest in. It is not just one option that fits everything. So, for | :52:42. | :52:47. | |
dementia, maybe? That will need very different care. We have got to | :52:48. | :52:54. | |
provide that range to give people the choice. And solutions in a city | :52:55. | :53:01. | |
like Southampton, it might be different to country areas. Is | :53:02. | :53:06. | |
assisted living the future? It is part of the future. It is a very | :53:07. | :53:10. | |
attractive idea that as you require more care, you will certainly live | :53:11. | :53:16. | |
longer, then you are in the same circumstances. You're not being | :53:17. | :53:21. | |
uprooted and being thrown into some apparently alien environment. I | :53:22. | :53:27. | |
think that is very important. It certainly is not something that can | :53:28. | :53:29. | |
replace everything else that is there. Certainly, you cannot do it | :53:30. | :53:35. | |
any more than a city than in a real environment. There needs to be a | :53:36. | :53:41. | |
palette of independent and assisted and fairly heavily assisted care | :53:42. | :53:45. | |
available. It is actually add`ons, I think, rather than substitutions. | :53:46. | :53:51. | |
The big cost of the future. Next week sees the first anniversary | :53:52. | :53:54. | |
of the Police and Crime Commissioner elections. They didn't produce the | :53:55. | :53:57. | |
best turnout ever ` just 15% of us went to the polling station. They | :53:58. | :54:01. | |
were supposed to be setting local policing priorities, holding their | :54:02. | :54:04. | |
forces to account and coming up with improvements in crime`fighting. So, | :54:05. | :54:07. | |
12 months on, how have they been doing? Anthony Stansfeld is the | :54:08. | :54:09. | |
Commissioner for Thames Valley and joins us now from our Oxford studio. | :54:10. | :54:16. | |
Mr Stansfeld, crime is down. Is it your fault? I would like to think I | :54:17. | :54:24. | |
had a small part to play. It is largely but not entirely the police. | :54:25. | :54:28. | |
We have set the priorities and made a real area `` effort in areas. | :54:29. | :54:32. | |
Burglaries have come down in enormous amounts. They have come | :54:33. | :54:39. | |
down about 20% this year. In areas such as Reading, 40%. That is a huge | :54:40. | :54:43. | |
reduction in crime and the overall reduction is over 10%. You are a | :54:44. | :54:50. | |
conservative. Several in our area, sorry, Dorset, independence, | :54:51. | :54:54. | |
Hampshire as well. People talk about the politicisation of the police. | :54:55. | :54:58. | |
Does it make a difference that you are a conservative? I do not think | :54:59. | :55:04. | |
it matters at all. Politics does not seem to come into it. Simon Hayes in | :55:05. | :55:09. | |
Hampshire is a good friend of mine it is not an issue at all. One of | :55:10. | :55:15. | |
the issues as the cost of it all. You have a chief executive costing | :55:16. | :55:20. | |
?93,000 a year. You are quoted in one of the newspapers as saying | :55:21. | :55:24. | |
that, I am extreme good value for money. If I could hire myself, I | :55:25. | :55:28. | |
would charge a lot more. Is that true? I never said that. It is | :55:29. | :55:35. | |
absolute rubbish. It is true that my chief executive earns 93,000, which | :55:36. | :55:39. | |
is considerably more than I do. I inherited my staff from the police | :55:40. | :55:42. | |
authority. The police authority had a budget of about 1.6 million and we | :55:43. | :55:47. | |
saved about ?600,000, which were not spending from. It is much cheaper | :55:48. | :55:51. | |
now. If you were paid more, you would not have to charge for travel | :55:52. | :55:54. | |
expenses, which has caused a lot of trouble. I've taken a lot of flak | :55:55. | :55:58. | |
over that and the arrangement you have a car and driver. Yes, the | :55:59. | :56:03. | |
Sunday mail had to make an apology because they got all the facts | :56:04. | :56:09. | |
wrong. Quite an embarrassment for you, though. I think the pay is very | :56:10. | :56:17. | |
fair indeed. It is considerably less than any executive in a hospital or | :56:18. | :56:22. | |
an executive at the BBC. I have about 20 people if not more in my | :56:23. | :56:25. | |
own police force that more money than I do. That is a very minor | :56:26. | :56:30. | |
issue, I think. That sends a very `` that sends a bit like a pay claim. I | :56:31. | :56:37. | |
am adequately recompense. You have this community partnership money. | :56:38. | :56:41. | |
The suggestion is because you have a priority for rural areas, that was | :56:42. | :56:45. | |
one of your objectives, that maybe you would take stuff away from the | :56:46. | :56:49. | |
city. Some of the councils are concerned about that. Will you make | :56:50. | :56:51. | |
that money go where there is the highest risk of crime or do you want | :56:52. | :56:58. | |
to adjust the formula? No. The formula which I inherited in some | :56:59. | :57:02. | |
areas was very distorted. Milton Keynes, for instance, which is half | :57:03. | :57:06. | |
as big as Reading, was getting from the Home Office have as much as | :57:07. | :57:11. | |
Reading. I have to even things out a bit. It does not affect rural areas. | :57:12. | :57:15. | |
The amount of money in the budget has been the just by 20%. That is | :57:16. | :57:22. | |
through savings in the areas. Nowhere is getting a cut of anywhere | :57:23. | :57:25. | |
like that. In the first year, I maintained a funding at its previous | :57:26. | :57:29. | |
level largely from cuts in my own budget. It will not carry on like | :57:30. | :57:33. | |
that, you're seeing, for areas with high risk crime? Now, if you have a | :57:34. | :57:41. | |
20% cut, you will have to pass some of it on. I think everyone is | :57:42. | :57:43. | |
extremely satisfied that we have come to a very good arrangement. | :57:44. | :57:48. | |
Now our regular round`up of the political week in the South in 60 | :57:49. | :57:50. | |
seconds. In the week coastal defences were | :57:51. | :58:03. | |
deliberately breached in West Sussex, the South saw a tide of | :58:04. | :58:09. | |
protest. Probation officers went on strike across the region in protest | :58:10. | :58:15. | |
at privatisation. On the same day, Oxfordshire County | :58:16. | :58:18. | |
Council saw demonstrations as they consulted on cuts. | :58:19. | :58:24. | |
And job centres saw from people whose benefits have been sanctioned | :58:25. | :58:28. | |
and money withheld. The Government says rules are clear but citizens | :58:29. | :58:32. | |
advice as early system is too harsh. Talk to the person who is about to | :58:33. | :58:36. | |
be sanctioned. Listen to the story first. Government ministers were | :58:37. | :58:42. | |
concentrating on new jobs and skills. Vince Cable was at this | :58:43. | :58:45. | |
technical College for 14 to 18`year`olds. You can see the | :58:46. | :58:50. | |
difference that is made by having a course that is linked to practical | :58:51. | :58:56. | |
work. Despite demonstrations of the Army incinerator, it came online | :58:57. | :59:05. | |
coming waste to electricity. Lots of protests. They ever make a | :59:06. | :59:08. | |
difference and what is the best way of influencing people, really? It is | :59:09. | :59:13. | |
a combination of things. The protesting is an essential part of | :59:14. | :59:19. | |
the Democratic political process. A placard, megaphone... I have to say | :59:20. | :59:26. | |
that by the time you get to a position where people feel so driven | :59:27. | :59:29. | |
to protest in the way they do, lots of other things have passed under | :59:30. | :59:34. | |
the bridge. It is necessary, it seems to me, to make sure the | :59:35. | :59:36. | |
political process is accountable as it can be along the line. Protests | :59:37. | :59:43. | |
sometimes a last throw of the dice for people who fielded as nothing | :59:44. | :59:46. | |
else they can do whilst everything else has failed. You have got to see | :59:47. | :59:53. | |
the problems coming. Indeed. That is part of the communications. If | :59:54. | :59:58. | |
people feel very strongly about it, there will be protests. They can do | :59:59. | :00:02. | |
that and it is a democratic right. The whole thing I've tried to get | :00:03. | :00:05. | |
communications right, working with people, explaining what we have to | :00:06. | :00:08. | |
do. We have all got big challenges coming up. Particularly on the | :00:09. | :00:13. | |
budgets. That is where we have to leave it for this week. Thank you to | :00:14. | :00:19. | |
my guests for joining us. Don't forget, you can keep up`to`date by | :00:20. | :00:24. | |
reading my blog with things here in the South. | :00:25. | :00:26. | |
more equipment so they can see cyclists. Back to you, Andrew. | :00:27. | :00:38. | |
We learned this week that no more warships will be built at | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
Portsmouth, the home of the Royal Navy since the days of the Mary Rose | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
and Francis Drake. But has the city been sacrificed to save jobs on the | :00:47. | :00:49. | |
Clyde in Scotland? Is England the loser in an effort to keep the | :00:50. | :00:54. | |
United Kingdom intact? Let's speak to Eddie Bone, he leads the campaign | :00:55. | :01:03. | |
for an English Parliament. Is England the loser in this attempt to | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
doubt, Andrew. We would look at it from the campaign for the English | :01:08. | :01:16. | |
Parliament that the British governance is bribing the Scots to | :01:17. | :01:20. | |
stay with the union at the cost of English jobs. What is the best | :01:21. | :01:26. | |
outcome for England when Scotland votes in the referendum next year? | :01:27. | :01:30. | |
We have got to have an English parliament. What I mean by that is | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
an endless governor and with a first minister speaking on behalf of the | :01:35. | :01:40. | |
people of England. -- and English government. If Scotland votes for | :01:41. | :01:45. | |
independence, that is the union coming to an end. It will be | :01:46. | :01:51. | |
dissolved legally. England would be going to negotiating table without | :01:52. | :01:59. | |
true representation. The union continues but it continues without | :02:00. | :02:04. | |
Scotland. I want to come back to my... That is the constitutional | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
position. You may not agree with me but that is the constitutional | :02:09. | :02:13. | |
position. Do you want Scotland to vote for independence next year We | :02:14. | :02:19. | |
want a fair deal with equality for England. If that can be maintained | :02:20. | :02:25. | |
or England can have a fair deal within the union, that is brilliant. | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
Let's have a federal system are all the nations are treated equally If | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
that cannot happen and Scotland decides to stay, if Scotland goes, | :02:35. | :02:43. | |
it is an independent England, isn't it? If Scotland votes to leave the | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
union, what is left of the United Kingdom would be so dominated by | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
England at Westminster would, in effect, Beale English Parliament, | :02:52. | :02:57. | |
wouldn't it? I do not agree with you. I think that is a British, deny | :02:58. | :03:04. | |
list approach. The act of union was a fusion with the King of England to | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
the King of Scotland. That would come to an end. The Welsh are very | :03:09. | :03:13. | |
concerned. They are a very small nation. If you have a botched | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
British come English Parliament the Welsh would be in a very vulnerable | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
situation. They would not be listened to. Also a situation with | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
Northern Ireland. There are voices in Northern Ireland talking about | :03:28. | :03:30. | |
trying to reunite Northern Ireland. It would be a very volatile | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
situation. Would you prefer England to become an independent nation | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
separate from what was left of the UK, which would be Wales and | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
Northern Ireland? Would you like to see England have a seat in the UN? I | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
want their representation for the people of England. English jobs were | :03:51. | :03:57. | |
sacrificed because the British government wanted Scotland to | :03:58. | :04:04. | |
remain... You have answered that very quickly. I am -- very clearly. | :04:05. | :04:13. | |
Would you want England, without Northern Ireland and Wales to become | :04:14. | :04:19. | |
a separate nation state? If that is what it takes for people of England | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
to have their representation - representation that looks at | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
policies of the NHS, education very different from Wales and Northern | :04:29. | :04:31. | |
Ireland - then so be it. Independence will need to be the way | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
forward. We have a small window of opportunity that the federal system | :04:37. | :04:47. | |
might still work. D1 indenting have a system like Scotland? -- do you | :04:48. | :04:55. | |
want England to have a system like Scotland? What we need to do now is | :04:56. | :05:02. | |
implement the process is to get their representation for England. I | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
would urge your viewers to join our campaign because it is the only way | :05:08. | :05:13. | |
to protect jobs in England, protect the NHS, protect education. | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
Otherwise we will see the people in England continually penalised by the | :05:19. | :05:20. | |
British government is trying desperately to save the union by | :05:21. | :05:26. | |
giving more to Scotland and Wales. Nice to talk to you. Helen, on this | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
business of the Clyde versus Portsmouth, it would have been | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
pretty inconceivable of the British government that believes in the | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
union to have allowed the Clyde to close. That would have been a | :05:41. | :05:46. | |
disaster. It would have been. It's dumped Nicola Sturgeon. Hang on a | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
minute, if there was Scottish independence, England were not allow | :05:51. | :05:53. | |
its warships to be built in a foreign country. She was unable to | :05:54. | :05:58. | |
admit there were any downsides to Scottish independence. It would be | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
dangerous for Scotland to talk about this. You have a Lib Dem and a | :06:04. | :06:08. | |
Conservative MP with reasonable majorities. They will find that a | :06:09. | :06:13. | |
killer on their doorstep in the next election. There are no results in | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
this for Mr Cameron. He has one MP and he will be lucky to have two. | :06:19. | :06:24. | |
And the South of England, I know Portsmouth is quite an industrial | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
area, but the South of England is overall Tory territory. He has | :06:30. | :06:33. | |
backed the Clyde where there are no Tory votes. The Tory problem in | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
Scotland is crucial. The trend to look out for is the rise of English | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
nationalism within the Conservative Party. They have the word Unionist | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
in their official title. If, in election after election, they failed | :06:47. | :06:50. | |
to win a significant presence in Scotland, and they are failing to | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
win a majority in Westminster because of that, it is not hard to | :06:55. | :07:00. | |
imagine that in ten years time that would be a party which has more | :07:01. | :07:08. | |
autonomy. One person we know who does not sign up to that. David | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
Cameron is a romantic Unionist at heart he may say that are not any | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
vote in Scotland but he want to keep the union together. With the Clyde, | :07:19. | :07:24. | |
you saw a rival together of economic and political interests. It is | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
economic or the case the greatest shipbuilding capability in the | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
United Kingdom is in the Clyde. It is politically very helpful for this | :07:33. | :07:35. | |
government to say to people in Scotland, look at the benefits of | :07:36. | :07:39. | |
being in the United Kingdom and under their breath, or in the case | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
of Alistair Carmichael to a camera, look what might go if you leave | :07:45. | :07:50. | |
That came together very conveniently to the government. Now, how do you | :07:51. | :07:54. | |
like your politicians? Squeaky clean with an impeccable past? Or are you | :07:55. | :07:58. | |
happy for them to have a few skeletons in the closet? Well, last | :07:59. | :08:00. | |
week the Toronto Mayor Rob Ford admitted smoking crack cocaine. He | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
said he took the drug about a year ago whilst in a drunken stupor. So, | :08:05. | :08:07. | |
what impact do confessions have on a political career? In a moment, we'll | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
hear what our panel has to say, but first, take a look at this. Yes I | :08:12. | :08:20. | |
have smoked crack cocaine. Am I an addict? No. Have I tried it? | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
Probably one of my drunken stupor is, about a year ago. I have used | :08:26. | :08:32. | |
drugs in the past. I have used class a drugs in the past. About 30 years | :08:33. | :08:38. | |
ago at university, I did smoke cannabis. I took cannabis is a few | :08:39. | :08:45. | |
times at university and it was wrong. Have you snorted cocaine I | :08:46. | :08:51. | |
tried to but unsuccessfully years ago. I sneezed. The people around | :08:52. | :09:16. | |
you who took cocaine, they went .. Is it better to confess or the that | :09:17. | :09:23. | |
get you into even more hot water? It is absolutely better. The confession | :09:24. | :09:29. | |
by Jacqui Smith was without glamour. Finding a Labour politician who once | :09:30. | :09:36. | |
smoked cannabis 25 years ago... I do not think it makes you think that | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
she cannot be a serious politician. Politicians should brace thing about | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
them which everyone knows. In the case of Ed Miliband, he should not | :09:47. | :09:51. | |
deny being geeky. That would reek of in authenticity. The Tory MP meant | :09:52. | :10:02. | |
to be regarded as a rising star turns out he was claiming to heat | :10:03. | :10:08. | |
his horses stables at the expense of the tax payer. He had made a | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
generous claim for energy bills in his constituency home. He went | :10:14. | :10:16. | |
through the papers and found he had been using it to heat the stables | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
and he laid it all out and did the right thing. He was completely | :10:21. | :10:27. | |
honest. Is that the end of it? It will still haunt in because energy | :10:28. | :10:34. | |
is such a big issue. He was right to be honest about it. Helen was | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
saying, absolutely, you need to be honest about your past. Harriet | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
Harman said she smoked pot at university. If you have smoked pot, | :10:45. | :10:48. | |
you can have a front line career. If you have taken class a drugs, you | :10:49. | :10:56. | |
cannot have a front line career There is the politician confessing | :10:57. | :10:59. | |
and the remarkable willingness of the public to forgive. It is | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
enlightened and progressive to forgive a politician for an affair | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
or taking soft drugs at university. To smoke crack cocaine and demand be | :11:09. | :11:14. | |
mad of following the Mayor of Toronto does astonishes me. There | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
was an example in America a few years ago. It was crack cocaine He | :11:19. | :11:24. | |
was elected having confessed to smoking crack cocaine. I draw the | :11:25. | :11:32. | |
line around class a drugs. We will put the team on to investigate him. | :11:33. | :11:37. | |
Help to Bible come back into the headlines again. Mr Cameron will | :11:38. | :11:40. | |
surroundings by the people who are benefiting from buying their homes | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
on this scheme in the same way that this is that you used to visit those | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
who had bought their council houses. It will become hugely politicised. | :11:51. | :11:54. | |
The Bank of England thinks that unemployment will drop late 201 , | :11:55. | :12:02. | |
early 2015. They will put interest rates up. Those with 95% mortgages | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
will have two find an extra ?40 a month to pay them off. I would not | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
be surprised if David Cameron is setting up himself with this | :12:13. | :12:24. | |
trouble. They will not want to raise interest rates. Mark Carney was very | :12:25. | :12:33. | |
careful to give himself three get out clauses. If unemployment hits a | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
certain level, Key has three measures which have to be fulfilled | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
before he goes ahead and raises interest rates. As a Tory | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
strategist, would you rather go into the election with low and implement | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
or low interest rates? I think they would stick to low interest rates. | :12:51. | :12:59. | |
-- low unemployment. It is not just panellists who are raising questions | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
about it, it is senior figures people in senior economic positions. | :13:05. | :13:10. | |
They are saying the scheme is fine at the moment. David Cameron will be | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
surrounded by people who have taken mortgages out at low levels and it | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
is all fine right now but if interest rates go up, it will not be | :13:20. | :13:25. | |
cosy. That's all folks. The Daily Politics is back tomorrow on BBC Two | :13:26. | :13:28. | |
at midday. I'll be back next Sunday at the normal time of 11am. | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
Remember, if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:33. | :13:42. |