Browse content similar to 29/06/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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No surprise that Mr Cameron didn't get his way at the European summit. | :00:49. | :00:59. | |
But does it mean Britain has just moved closer to the EU exit? | :01:00. | :01:02. | |
Doctors want to ban smoking outright. | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
A sensible health measure or the health lobby's secret plan all | :01:07. | :01:08. | |
And with me, as always, the best and the brightest political | :01:09. | :01:42. | |
panel in the business Nick Watt Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh. | :01:43. | :01:53. | |
They've had their usual cognac, or Juncker as it's known in | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
Luxembourg, for breakfast and will be tweeting under the influence | :01:57. | :01:58. | |
He's a boozing, chain-smoking, millionaire bon viveur who's made | :01:59. | :02:01. | |
it big in the world of European politic. | :02:02. | :02:03. | |
I speak of Jean-Claude Juncker, the former Prime Minister of Luxembourg | :02:04. | :02:06. | |
He'll soon be President of the European Commission, | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
He wasn't David Cameron's choice of course. | :02:11. | :02:17. | |
But those the PM thought were his allies deserted him and he ended up | :02:18. | :02:20. | |
on the wrong end of a 26-2 vote in favour of Arch-Fedrealist Juncker. | :02:21. | :02:35. | |
-- on the wrong end of a 26-2 vote in favour of Arch-Federalist | :02:36. | :02:38. | |
So where does this leave Mr Cameron's hopes | :02:39. | :02:40. | |
of major reform and repatriation of EU powers back to the UK? | :02:41. | :02:43. | |
Let's speak to his Europe Minister David Lidington | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
Welcome to the programme. The Prime Minister says that now with Mr | :02:49. | :02:55. | |
Juncker at the helm, the battle to keep Britain in the EU has got | :02:56. | :02:58. | |
harder. In what way has it got harder? For two reasons. The | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
majority of the leaders have accepted the process that shifts | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
power, it will not careful, from the elected heads of government right | :03:09. | :03:13. | |
cross Europe to the party bosses, the faction leaders in the European | :03:14. | :03:20. | |
Parliament and and the disaffection was made clear in many European | :03:21. | :03:30. | |
countries. Mr Juncker had a distinguished period as head of | :03:31. | :03:33. | |
Luxembourg, and was not a known reformer, but we have to judge on | :03:34. | :03:35. | |
how he leads the commission and there were some elements in the | :03:36. | :03:38. | |
mandate that the heads of government gave this week to the new incoming | :03:39. | :03:44. | |
European Commission that I think are cautiously encouraging for us. The | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
Prime Minister talked about those that not everybody wants to | :03:49. | :03:55. | |
integrate and to the same extent and speed. Let me just interrupt you. | :03:56. | :04:00. | |
What is new about saying that Europe can go closer to closer union at | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
different speeds? That has always been the case. It's nothing new | :04:06. | :04:13. | |
Indeed there are precedents, and they are good examples of the | :04:14. | :04:23. | |
approach as part of the course and one of the elements that the Prime | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
Minister is taking forward in the strategy is to get general | :04:29. | :04:31. | |
acceptance that while we agree that most of the partners have agreed to | :04:32. | :04:37. | |
the single currency will want to press forward with closer | :04:38. | :04:40. | |
integration of their economic and tax policies, but not every country | :04:41. | :04:45. | |
in the EU is going to want to do that. We have to see the pattern | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
that has grown up enough to recognise there is a diverse EU with | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
28 member states and more in the future. We won't all integrate the | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
extent. It is a matter of a pattern that is differentiation and | :05:00. | :05:04. | |
integration. I understand that. John Major used to call it variable | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
geometry, and other phrases nobody used to understand, but the point is | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
that you're back benches don't want any union at any speed, even in the | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
slow lane. They want to go in the other direction. It depends which | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
backbencher you talk to. There's a diverse range of views. I think that | :05:22. | :05:34. | |
there is acceptance that the core of the Prime Minister's approaches to | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
seek reform of the European Union, for renegotiation after the | :05:39. | :05:41. | |
election, then put it to the British people to decide. It won't be the | :05:42. | :05:45. | |
British government or ministers that take the final decision, it's the | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
British people, provided they are a Conservative government, who will | :05:50. | :05:51. | |
take the decision on the basis of the reforms that David Cameron | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
secures whether they want to stay in or not. Is there more of a chance, | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
not a certainty or probability, but at least more of a chance that with | :06:00. | :06:04. | |
Mr Juncker in that position of Britain leaving the EU? I don't | :06:05. | :06:10. | |
think we can say that at the moment. I think we can say that the task of | :06:11. | :06:14. | |
reform looks harder than it did a couple of weeks ago. But we have do | :06:15. | :06:23. | |
put Mr Juncker to the test. I do think he would want his commission | :06:24. | :06:35. | |
to be marked and I think that there is, and I find this in numbers | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
around Europe, and there is a growing recognition that things | :06:41. | :06:43. | |
cannot go on as they have been. Europe, economically, is in danger | :06:44. | :06:47. | |
of losing a lot of ground will stop millions of youngsters are out of | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
work already that reform. There is real anxiety and a number of | :06:52. | :06:54. | |
countries now about the extent to which opinion polls and election | :06:55. | :06:57. | |
results are showing a shift of support to both left and right wing | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
parties, sometimes outright neofascist movements, expressing | :07:03. | :07:04. | |
real content and resentment at Howard in touch -- how out of touch | :07:05. | :07:13. | |
decisions have become. You say you are sensing anxiety about the | :07:14. | :07:16. | |
condition of Europe, so why did they choose Mr Juncker then? You would | :07:17. | :07:22. | |
have to put that question to some of the heads of European government. | :07:23. | :07:28. | |
Clearly there were a number for whom domestic politics played a big role | :07:29. | :07:31. | |
in the eventual decision that they took. There were some who had signed | :07:32. | :07:40. | |
up to the lead candidate process and felt they could not back away from | :07:41. | :07:43. | |
that, whatever their private feelings might have been, but I | :07:44. | :07:48. | |
think the PM was right to say that this was a matter of principle and | :07:49. | :07:51. | |
it shouldn't just be left as a stitch up by the European Parliament | :07:52. | :07:57. | |
to tell us what they do. He said, I can't agree to pretend to acquiesce. | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
They have to make the opposition clear that go on with reform. Are | :08:03. | :08:06. | |
the current terms of membership for us unacceptable? The current terms | :08:07. | :08:13. | |
of the membership are very far from perfect. Are they unacceptable? The | :08:14. | :08:20. | |
current terms are certainly not ones that I feel comfortable with. The | :08:21. | :08:26. | |
Prime Minister described them as unacceptable. Do you think they are? | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
We look at the views of the British people at the moment. If you look at | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
the polling at the moment, the evidence is that people are split on | :08:37. | :08:39. | |
whether they think membership is a good thing. I'm asking what you | :08:40. | :08:49. | |
think. David Cameron wants to in -- endorse changes in our interest but | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
also because the biggest market is going to suffer if they don't | :08:54. | :08:57. | |
challenge -- grasp the challenge of political and economic reform. | :08:58. | :09:02. | |
Newsnight, Friday night, Malcolm Rifkind the former Secretary of | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
State said to me that even if the choice was to stay in on the | :09:08. | :09:09. | |
existing terms, he would vote to stay in on the existing terms. He | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
doesn't necessarily like them, but he would vote to stay in. That is | :09:14. | :09:17. | |
the authentic voice of the Foreign Office, isn't it? That is the | :09:18. | :09:21. | |
position of your department. Is it your position? Malcolm Rifkind is a | :09:22. | :09:27. | |
distinguished and independent minded backbencher. He's not in government | :09:28. | :09:33. | |
now. But that is your position. No, the position of the government and | :09:34. | :09:36. | |
the Conservative Party in the government is that we believe that | :09:37. | :09:40. | |
important changes, both economic and political reforms, are necessary and | :09:41. | :09:45. | |
that they are attainable in our interest and those of Europe as a | :09:46. | :09:48. | |
whole. Would you vote to stay in on the existing terms? That's not going | :09:49. | :09:55. | |
to be a question that the referendum. Really? I know that in | :09:56. | :10:00. | |
2017 Europe is going to look rather different to how it looks today For | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
one thing our colleagues in the Eurozone will want and need to press | :10:06. | :10:07. | |
ahead with closer integration. That, in our view, needs to be done | :10:08. | :10:12. | |
in a way that fully respects the rights of those of us who remain | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
outside. Variable geometry, tackling things like the abuse of freedom of | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
migration. Those are all in the conclusions from the leader this | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
week and we should welcome that Very briefly, finally, when will | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
you, as a government, give us the negotiating position of the | :10:30. | :10:32. | |
government? Will you give us what you hope to achieve before the | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
election or not? David Cameron set out very clearly in his Bloomberg | :10:37. | :10:42. | |
speech that he wanted a Europe that was more democratically accountable, | :10:43. | :10:48. | |
more flexible, more at it -- economically competitive. That is | :10:49. | :10:51. | |
all very general. When will you lay out the negotiating position? It's | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
not general. It is very far from general. We have seen evidence in | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
the successful cut of the European budget, the reform of fisheries | :11:00. | :11:06. | |
those reforms have started to take effect. We have won some victories | :11:07. | :11:09. | |
and I'm sure the Prime Minister as we get towards the general election, | :11:10. | :11:14. | |
will want to make clear what the Conservative Party position is, and | :11:15. | :11:16. | |
perhaps other political leaders will do the same for their party. Thank | :11:17. | :11:24. | |
you for joining us this morning The harsh reality of this is that there | :11:25. | :11:28. | |
is a yawning gap between what the Prime Minister can hope to bring | :11:29. | :11:32. | |
back and what will satisfy his Conservative backbenchers. Yes, I | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
think the Parliamentary Conservative Party is divided into three parts, | :11:37. | :11:41. | |
those who would vote to leave the EU regardless, those who would stay | :11:42. | :11:44. | |
regardless, and a huge middle ground of people who want to stay in on | :11:45. | :11:47. | |
renegotiated terms. These are not three equal parts. Those who would | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
vote to stay in regardless are smaller and smaller. Compared to 20 | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
years ago, tiny. But the people in the middle, generally, would only | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
stay in if you secure a renegotiation that will not be | :12:02. | :12:04. | |
re-secured. In other words, they are de facto, out by 2017 and the | :12:05. | :12:11. | |
referendum. This whole saga of the recent weeks has been the single | :12:12. | :12:14. | |
biggest economy in foreign policy under this government. That's not | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
what the voters think. -- single biggest ignominy. I mean the failure | :12:20. | :12:24. | |
to secure the target. The opinion polls show that standing up against | :12:25. | :12:28. | |
Mr Juncker has proved rather popular. I suggest that is not Mr | :12:29. | :12:32. | |
Cameron's problem. His problem is that, if in the end he gets only | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
because Medic changes, and if he says he still thinks that with these | :12:37. | :12:41. | |
changes -- cosmetic changes. And he says that they should stay in, that | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
would split the Tory party wide open. Eurosceptics say would be the | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
biggest split since the corn laws. He wants to protect the position of | :12:51. | :12:56. | |
coming out, and you might get that. He wants to crack down on abuse of | :12:57. | :13:03. | |
benefits, and he might get that He wants to restrict freedom of | :13:04. | :13:05. | |
movement for future member states, and that's difficult, because it is | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
a treaty change. And he wants to deal with closer union, but that is | :13:10. | :13:14. | |
also treaty change. In the Council conclusions, David Cameron was | :13:15. | :13:16. | |
encouraged because it said, let s look at closer union, but it did not | :13:17. | :13:21. | |
say it would reform. All it said was ever closer union can be interpreted | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
in different ways. In other words, we're not going to change it. The | :13:26. | :13:29. | |
fundamental problem the David Cameron was that two years ago, when | :13:30. | :13:40. | |
he vetoed the fiscal compact, that showed Angela Merkel was unwilling | :13:41. | :13:42. | |
to help them and what happened in the last two weeks was that Angela | :13:43. | :13:45. | |
Merkel was unable to help him. There is not a single leader of the | :13:46. | :13:47. | |
European Union that once Juncker as president, and he doesn't want it, | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
he wants the note take a job at the European Council. But there was this | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
basic stitch up by the European Parliament that meant he was | :13:56. | :13:58. | |
presented, and when Angela Merkel put the question over his head there | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
was a huge backlash in Germany and she was unable to deliver. I | :14:03. | :14:07. | |
understand that, but I'm looking forward to Mr Cameron's predicament. | :14:08. | :14:10. | |
I don't know how he squares the circle. It seems inconceivable that | :14:11. | :14:16. | |
he can bring back enough from Brussels to satisfy his | :14:17. | :14:22. | |
backbenchers. No, you can't. Most of them fundamentally want out. They | :14:23. | :14:25. | |
don't want to be persuaded by renegotiations. Where it's hard to | :14:26. | :14:29. | |
draw conclusions from the polling is that if you ask people question that | :14:30. | :14:32. | |
sounds like, do you like the fact that our Prime Minister has gone to | :14:33. | :14:36. | |
Brussels and stuck it to the man, they say yes, but how many people | :14:37. | :14:39. | |
will go to the voting booths and put their cross in the box based on | :14:40. | :14:44. | |
Europe? We know mostly voters care about Europe as a proxy for | :14:45. | :14:51. | |
immigration fears. In ten people in this country could not tell you who | :14:52. | :14:54. | |
John Claude Juncker is Angela Weir is replacing. -- and who he is | :14:55. | :14:56. | |
replacing. And I'm joined in the studio now by | :14:57. | :14:59. | |
arch-Eurosceptic Conservative MEP, Daniel Hannan and from Strasbourg by | :15:00. | :15:02. | |
staunch European and former Liberal war? His declared objectives would | :15:03. | :15:23. | |
leave Britain still in the common agricultural policy, the common | :15:24. | :15:27. | |
foreign policy, the European arrest warrant, so the negotiating aims | :15:28. | :15:35. | |
which we just heard Nick setting out wouldn't fundamentally change | :15:36. | :15:37. | |
anything. It would be easy for the Government to declare war on any of | :15:38. | :15:46. | |
these things. The danger from your point of view as someone who wants | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
to stay in is that if David Cameron only gets cosmetic changes, the | :15:52. | :15:56. | |
chance of getting the vote to leave the European Union increases, | :15:57. | :16:00. | |
doesn't it? Hypothetically it probably does but we have two big | :16:01. | :16:08. | |
things to get through first in domestic politics before we even | :16:09. | :16:14. | |
reach a negotiation. One is are we going to have the United Kingdom | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
this time next year following the referendum in Scotland? Secondly, | :16:19. | :16:24. | |
are the Conservatives after the general election next year going to | :16:25. | :16:29. | |
be in a position to pursue a negotiation? In other words are they | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
going to be a majority government or even a minority government? For the | :16:35. | :16:39. | |
sake of this morning let's assume the answer to both is yes, the UK | :16:40. | :16:44. | |
stays intact and against the polls they were saying this morning, David | :16:45. | :16:50. | |
Cameron forms an overall majority after the election. There is a | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
danger, if he doesn't bring much back, that people will vote yes | :16:55. | :17:01. | |
correct? There is that danger and I see a lot of the British press | :17:02. | :17:05. | |
comment this morning saying this could be a rerun of the Harold | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
Wilson like negotiation of the 1970s, a bit cosmetic but enough to | :17:11. | :17:15. | |
say we have got new terms and you should go with it. I think what is | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
different however, and this is really an appeal if you like, it | :17:21. | :17:25. | |
cannot just be left to the Liberal Democrats and coalition government | :17:26. | :17:30. | |
to make this case on our Rome. A lot of interest groups across the land | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
will have to start being prepared to put their head above the parapet on | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
the fundamental - do you want Britain to remain in the European | :17:40. | :17:45. | |
Union? Yes or no? Are you willing to put your public reputations on the | :17:46. | :17:49. | |
line? We are not getting enough of that at the moment and it is getting | :17:50. | :17:54. | |
dangerously close to closing time. Daniel Hannan, David Cameron will | :17:55. | :18:05. | |
not get away with this, will he It will be an acceptable to his party. | :18:06. | :18:09. | |
If it is an acceptable to Tory backbenchers it is because it is | :18:10. | :18:16. | |
working and they are reflecting what their constituents say. A majority | :18:17. | :18:21. | |
of people in the country are unhappy with the present terms. They can see | :18:22. | :18:25. | |
there is a huge wide world beyond the oceans and we have confined | :18:26. | :18:31. | |
ourselves to this small trade bloc. There is a huge debate to be had | :18:32. | :18:35. | |
about whether we could be doing better outside. It is not danger, it | :18:36. | :18:42. | |
is democracy, trusting people. If the only person offering a | :18:43. | :18:45. | |
referendum at the moment is the Prime Minister, | :18:46. | :18:47. | |
for, friendships overseas are prejudiced, and they conceive that | :18:48. | :20:33. | |
views, as I think he does mine, but to dismiss the European Union as a | :20:34. | :20:40. | |
small trading block globally, when you have got the United States of | :20:41. | :20:45. | |
America, China and other countries acknowledging its importance, it is | :20:46. | :20:55. | |
really Walter Mitty land. Are we closer than... Daniel Hannan, are we | :20:56. | :21:07. | |
closer to an exit after what happened last week? Yes, because the | :21:08. | :21:13. | |
idea that we could get substantive reforms, gets a mythic and powers | :21:14. | :21:22. | |
back and be within a looser, more flexible European Union has plainly | :21:23. | :21:31. | |
been closed off. We have to face up to the actual European Union that | :21:32. | :21:35. | |
has taken shape on our doorstep Are we going to be part of that or are | :21:36. | :21:41. | |
we going to have a much more semidetached, looser relationship | :21:42. | :21:45. | |
with it which we can either achieve via a unilateral system of power or | :21:46. | :21:57. | |
another way. This debate is never-ending, it is going on and on | :21:58. | :22:01. | |
and has bedevilled British prime ministers for as long as I can | :22:02. | :22:05. | |
remember. Shouldn't the Lib Dems change their stance on the | :22:06. | :22:10. | |
referendum yet again let's just have this in-out referendum and have it | :22:11. | :22:16. | |
sided one way or another? Our position remains clear. If there is | :22:17. | :22:21. | |
a constitutional issue put before us in terms of treaty changes then we | :22:22. | :22:28. | |
will have a referendum. Why not now? I am probably the wrong person to | :22:29. | :22:38. | |
ask because I argued and voted for a referendum on Maastricht because I | :22:39. | :22:43. | |
thought that was a constitutional treaty. Anything that makes the | :22:44. | :22:47. | |
Queen a citizen of the European Union surely has constitutional | :22:48. | :22:54. | |
implications. Anyway, 20 years on we are where we are and we need to | :22:55. | :22:58. | |
established common vocabulary. You talk about federalism. What do we | :22:59. | :23:06. | |
mean? Most of the people operating in the European Parliament and the | :23:07. | :23:10. | |
institution across the road, the Council of Europe, they mean by | :23:11. | :23:15. | |
federalism decentralisation of powers, not a Brussels superstate | :23:16. | :23:22. | |
but actually the kind of decentralisation that maintains | :23:23. | :23:25. | |
national characteristics and pools resources and sovereignty where it | :23:26. | :23:35. | |
makes sense. Mr Juncker, who is now going to be in charge of the | :23:36. | :23:38. | |
Brussels commission, he believes in a single EU reform policy, an EU | :23:39. | :23:49. | |
wide minimum wage and EU wide taxes. You said this week that you | :23:50. | :23:53. | |
liked the sound of Juncker federalism. Does that sound good to | :23:54. | :24:00. | |
you? No, and I think the new president of the commission will be | :24:01. | :24:03. | |
disappointed if he puts forward these views because although we only | :24:04. | :24:09. | |
had Hungary voting with us, I think if you go to other countries, | :24:10. | :24:14. | |
France, Poland, Scandinavia, they are not going to buy that kind of | :24:15. | :24:21. | |
menu. What they mean by federalism is the continental concept, also the | :24:22. | :24:27. | |
North American concept, that we can sit very happily... They have an | :24:28. | :24:35. | |
army, a federal police force, federal taxation. Yes, but in terms | :24:36. | :24:44. | |
of the political institutions which is what we are discussing here, you | :24:45. | :24:48. | |
can have the supranational, the European level, whilst still having | :24:49. | :24:52. | |
the very vibrant national, and indeed as we are practising in the | :24:53. | :24:58. | |
United Kingdom the subnational. A very brief final word from you, | :24:59. | :25:03. | |
Daniel. That is ultimately going to be the choice. The European Union is | :25:04. | :25:09. | |
an evolving dynamic, we can see the direction it is going in. Do we want | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
to be part of that? I suspect Charles Kennedy would have loved a | :25:15. | :25:18. | |
referendum. I cannot help but notice his party is going downhill since he | :25:19. | :25:34. | |
was running it. It is illegal to light up in the workplace, pubs and | :25:35. | :25:39. | |
restaurants. Now the British Medical Association has voted to outlaw | :25:40. | :25:42. | |
everywhere but not everybody at once. It would apply to anyone born | :25:43. | :25:48. | |
after the year 2000. In a moment we will debate the merits of those | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
plans but first he is Adam. There was a time when to be British | :25:53. | :25:59. | |
was to be a smoker. 1948 was the year off peak fag with 82% of men | :26:00. | :26:04. | |
smoking mainly cigarettes but it was a pipe that Harold Wilson used as a | :26:05. | :26:09. | |
political prop to help with the hard-hitting interviews they did in | :26:10. | :26:13. | |
those days. The advertisements make out pipe smokers to be more virile, | :26:14. | :26:24. | |
more fascinating men than anybody else. Do you thought -- have that | :26:25. | :26:28. | |
thought anywhere in your mind? No. It changed in 2006 when smoking in | :26:29. | :26:40. | |
enclosed places was banned. I would rather be inside but unfortunately | :26:41. | :26:43. | |
we have got to do what this Government tells us to do. I think | :26:44. | :26:49. | |
it is good, it is calm and you can breathe. Research suggests it has | :26:50. | :26:55. | |
improved the health of bar workers no end and reduced childhood asthma. | :26:56. | :26:59. | |
Now just one in five adults is a smoker. Coming next, crackdowns on | :27:00. | :27:05. | |
those newfangled e-cigarettes, smoking in cars and possibly the | :27:06. | :27:10. | |
introduction of plain packaging There is still those who take pride | :27:11. | :27:17. | |
in smoking and see it as a war on freedom. | :27:18. | :27:30. | |
We're joined now by Dr Vivienne Nathanson | :27:31. | :27:33. | |
from the British Medical Association who voted for a graduated ban | :27:34. | :27:36. | |
on smoking at their conference last week, and Simon Clark | :27:37. | :27:40. | |
They're here to go head-to-head There are plenty of things which are | :27:41. | :27:49. | |
bad for our health, why single out cigarettes? We need some sugar in | :27:50. | :27:59. | |
our diets but the fact is that we need to stop people smoking as | :28:00. | :28:03. | |
children because if we can do that, the likelihood that they will start | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
smoking is very small. In no circumstances is smoking good for | :28:09. | :28:13. | |
you. There are lots of smokers who live long, healthy lives but we | :28:14. | :28:18. | |
totally accept smoking is a risk to your health and adults have to make | :28:19. | :28:23. | |
that decision, just as you make the decision about drinking alcohol | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
eating fatty foods and drinking sugary drinks. This proposal is | :28:28. | :28:31. | |
totally impractical. It will create a huge black market in cigarettes | :28:32. | :28:36. | |
which will get bigger every year. They say this is about stopping | :28:37. | :28:39. | |
children smoking but there is already a law in place that stops | :28:40. | :28:46. | |
shopkeepers from selling cigarettes to children. This target adults so | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
you could have the bizarre situation in the year 3035 for example where a | :28:52. | :28:56. | |
36-year-old can go into shops to buy cigarettes but if you are 35 you | :28:57. | :29:01. | |
will be denied that, which is ludicrous. The point is that the | :29:02. | :29:06. | |
younger you start smoking the more likely you will become heavily | :29:07. | :29:10. | |
addicted. I take the point, but the point he is saying is that if this | :29:11. | :29:15. | |
becomes law, down the road, if you go into shops to buy cigarettes you | :29:16. | :29:20. | |
would have to take your birth certificate, wouldn't you? We have | :29:21. | :29:24. | |
no idea how the legislation would be written but the key point is that if | :29:25. | :29:28. | |
we can stop young people from starting to smoke, we will in 2 | :29:29. | :29:34. | |
years have a whole group of people who have never smoked so you won't | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
have that problem of people who are smokers and they are now in their | :29:40. | :29:43. | |
20s and 30s. Or you will have a lot of younger people who get cigarettes | :29:44. | :29:47. | |
the way they currently get illegal drugs now. They are already getting | :29:48. | :29:51. | |
cigarettes illegally and we have to deal with that. We have got to get | :29:52. | :29:57. | |
better. The Government has not been able to stop it. We know this is | :29:58. | :30:07. | |
going to kill 50%... When you are 15 you think you will live for ever. | :30:08. | :30:12. | |
Indeed but they also do it as rebellion and because they see | :30:13. | :30:16. | |
adults and it is remarkably easy to buy cigarettes. Whatever the case is | :30:17. | :30:20. | |
for individual choice, won't most people agree that if you could stop | :30:21. | :30:25. | |
young people smoking, so that through the rest of their lives they | :30:26. | :30:29. | |
never smoked, that would be worth doing? You get 16 or 17-year-olds | :30:30. | :30:39. | |
who already do that. Is it worth trying? When the government | :30:40. | :30:44. | |
increased the age at which shopkeepers could sell from 16 to | :30:45. | :30:49. | |
18, we supported it. We don't support a ban on proxy purchasing, | :30:50. | :30:54. | |
we support reasonable measures, but this is unreasonable. This proposal | :30:55. | :30:57. | |
says a lot about the BMA, because this week the BMA also passed a | :30:58. | :31:03. | |
motion to ban the use of E cigarettes in public places. There | :31:04. | :31:06. | |
is no evidence that they are dangerous to health, so why are they | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
doing that? They are becoming a temperance society. This is not | :31:11. | :31:14. | |
about public health, it's an old-fashioned temperance society and | :31:15. | :31:17. | |
they have to get their act together because they are bringing the | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
medical profession into disrepute. We were having argument is about | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
things that people buy large accept, smoking in bars or public places, | :31:27. | :31:31. | |
but the real aim of the BMA was the total banning of cigarettes | :31:32. | :31:33. | |
altogether. This would suggest that that was true to claim that. It s | :31:34. | :31:39. | |
not about a ban, it's about a move to a country where nobody wants to | :31:40. | :31:44. | |
smoke and no one is a smoker. But it would be illegal to smoke. It would | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
be illegal to buy, not smoke, and there's a difference between two. So | :31:49. | :31:55. | |
even if I am born in the year 2 00, it would still be illegal to smoke, | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
just illegal to buy the cigarettes? Indeed. The point being that the | :32:00. | :32:05. | |
habit of smoking is very strongly linked to your ability to buy, so | :32:06. | :32:09. | |
that is why things like Price and availability and marketing are so | :32:10. | :32:14. | |
important. People will flood across the Channel with the cigarettes One | :32:15. | :32:17. | |
thing you will find is that throughout the world people is | :32:18. | :32:20. | |
looking at -- people are looking at the same kind of measures, and | :32:21. | :32:25. | |
different countries like Australia, they were the first with a | :32:26. | :32:28. | |
standardised packaging. Other countries will follow, because all | :32:29. | :32:31. | |
of us are facing the fact that we can't afford to pay for the | :32:32. | :32:37. | |
tragedy. There will be people waiting to flood the market with | :32:38. | :32:41. | |
cigarettes. This is nonsense. Thanks for both coming and going | :32:42. | :32:44. | |
head-to-head. "Unless we have more equal | :32:45. | :32:48. | |
representation, our politics won't be half as good as it should be " | :32:49. | :32:52. | |
So said David Cameron back in 2 09. So how's it going? | :32:53. | :32:54. | |
Well, you can judge the quality of the politics for yourself, | :32:55. | :32:57. | |
but we've been crunching the numbers to find out what | :32:58. | :32:59. | |
parliament might look like after the next year's general election. | :33:00. | :33:01. | |
Here's Giles. Politicians are elected to | :33:02. | :33:08. | |
Parliament to represent their constituents, but the make-up of | :33:09. | :33:10. | |
Parliament does not reflect society well at all the parties it. In 010 | :33:11. | :33:16. | |
more women and ethnic minority candidates entered Westminster but | :33:17. | :33:20. | |
not significantly more inner chamber still dominated by white males. | :33:21. | :33:28. | |
Looking at the current make-up of the Commons, Labour has 83 female | :33:29. | :33:34. | |
MPs, the Conservative have 47 women MPs, which is just over 47% -- and | :33:35. | :33:41. | |
the Lib Dems have 12% of the parties. All of the parties have | :33:42. | :33:45. | |
selected parliaments in those seats where existing MPs are retiring and | :33:46. | :33:48. | |
to fight seats at the next election, and they've all been | :33:49. | :33:52. | |
trying to up the number of women and ethnic minorities because discounts | :33:53. | :33:56. | |
and can be capitalised on. A picture tells a thousand words. Look at the | :33:57. | :34:01. | |
all-male front bench before us. And he says he wants to represent the | :34:02. | :34:07. | |
whole country. Despite the jibe the Labour Party know they have a long | :34:08. | :34:10. | |
way to go on the issue of being representative. So we | :34:11. | :34:21. | |
way to go on the issue of being look at this particular area of lack | :34:22. | :34:22. | |
of women and ethnic minorities. Women first. | :34:23. | :34:22. | |
In the most marginal, 40 have women candidates, that would mean if they | :34:23. | :34:54. | |
got just enough to win power, they would have 133 women, which is 1% | :34:55. | :35:00. | |
The Conservatives currently have 305 MPs and their strategy | :35:01. | :35:02. | |
at the next election is to concentrate on their 40 most | :35:03. | :35:05. | |
marginal seats, and the 40 seats most mathematically likely to turn | :35:06. | :35:08. | |
In those 40, 29 candidates have been selected | :35:09. | :35:11. | |
If they kept hold of their existing seats and won those 29 new ones | :35:12. | :35:16. | |
they would have 56 women MPs, around 17%, and up 2% from last time. | :35:17. | :35:20. | |
The Liberal Democrats are fighting to hold on to the 57 seats they won | :35:21. | :35:23. | |
at the last election, if they manage that, they would have | :35:24. | :35:26. | |
However all the indications are it could be | :35:27. | :35:31. | |
a bad night for the Lib Dems, if they lost 20 seats, on a uniform | :35:32. | :35:35. | |
swing it would leave them with just four women, 11% of the party. | :35:36. | :35:41. | |
One Conservative peer who thinks the party needs to look at all | :35:42. | :35:44. | |
options if it's female numbers go down in 2015, says Parliament is | :35:45. | :35:47. | |
The bottom line is, if 50% of our population is not being looked at | :35:48. | :36:02. | |
evenly, are we really using the best of our talent? And yes, women's life | :36:03. | :36:09. | |
experiences are different. They are not superior, they are not inferior. | :36:10. | :36:13. | |
They are different. But surely those life experiences need to be | :36:14. | :36:14. | |
represented here at Westminster So that's the Parliamentary | :36:15. | :36:19. | |
projection for gender, According to the last census | :36:20. | :36:20. | |
in 2011, 13% of people in the UK Labour currently has 16 MPs from | :36:21. | :36:26. | |
black, Asian or minority ethnic backgrounds or just over 6%, if they | :36:27. | :36:31. | |
get their extra 68 seats that figure would go up to 26, 8% of their party | :36:32. | :36:35. | |
were from BAME backgrounds. The Tories currently have 11 BAME | :36:36. | :36:39. | |
candidates, or 4% of the party. If they get an extra 29 seats, | :36:40. | :36:46. | |
that would mean 14 BAME MPs, The Liberal Democrats | :36:47. | :36:49. | |
don't have any BAME MPs. If they manage to cling | :36:50. | :36:58. | |
on to their current number of seats they would have two, | :36:59. | :37:03. | |
giving them a proportion of 4%. If they lost | :37:04. | :37:06. | |
their 20 most vulnerable seats, But even if you changed the mix | :37:07. | :37:08. | |
of gender and ethnicity in Parliament would that solve | :37:09. | :37:18. | |
the problem? Probably not. Only 10% of us have gone to | :37:19. | :37:20. | |
a private fee paid school. A Quarter of all Mps went to Oxford | :37:21. | :37:25. | |
or Cambridge. Only a fifth | :37:26. | :37:33. | |
of us went to any university. There is a huge disillusionment with | :37:34. | :37:40. | |
the political elite due to the fact that these people don't look like | :37:41. | :37:44. | |
us. They don't speak like us, they don't have our experiences and they | :37:45. | :37:47. | |
cannot communicate in a way we relate to. If you look at the | :37:48. | :37:52. | |
turnout, at the moment, if you are an unskilled worker, you are 20 | :37:53. | :37:55. | |
points less likely to turn and vote than a middle-class professional and | :37:56. | :37:58. | |
that is getting worse with single election. | :37:59. | :38:01. | |
And that's the key, evidence does suggest that if a | :38:02. | :38:03. | |
Party reflects the society it exists within, it is more likely to get | :38:04. | :38:06. | |
The citizen journalists who have been taking to the streets of Dorset | :38:07. | :38:37. | |
to highlight some of their problems getting around. | :38:38. | :38:42. | |
Almost a decade on from legislation that was stpposed | :38:43. | :38:44. | |
to open up streets and buildings, it seems there's a long way to go yet. | :38:45. | :40:18. | |
We have legislation for that in the NHS, for example. | :40:19. | :40:24. | |
It's about people being takdn seriously and procedures properly | :40:25. | :40:28. | |
being undertaken when these allegations are lade | :40:29. | :40:33. | |
The reports repeatedly talk about people who express | :40:34. | :40:37. | |
their concerns and their dotbts and their worries and those | :40:38. | :40:47. | |
concerns disappear and that's what we must never get into again. | :40:48. | :40:49. | |
We all have a responsibilitx when we look after young vulnerable people, | :40:50. | :40:54. | |
We have a statutory ` county councils have | :40:55. | :40:57. | |
You can't value that more hhghly than anything else | :40:58. | :41:01. | |
because people look to us and we need to encourage whistle`blowers | :41:02. | :41:06. | |
because, unfortunately, somd whistle`blowers who have actually | :41:07. | :41:10. | |
done really morally absolutdly the right thing have sufferdd. | :41:11. | :41:15. | |
Have really been ostracised and what a shame, because they did | :41:16. | :41:20. | |
So some people's attitudes to the whistle`blowers... | :41:21. | :41:26. | |
But there's something we all ought to talk about ` the standards, | :41:27. | :41:29. | |
We have to safeguard these vulnerable people | :41:30. | :41:41. | |
While we are talking about giving young people a voice, | :41:42. | :41:45. | |
according to the last census there are 166,000 young carers in the UK. | :41:46. | :41:48. | |
This weekend, 1500 of them are getting together | :41:49. | :41:50. | |
at Curdridge in Hampshire to get a chance to get away from all of | :41:51. | :41:56. | |
those adult responsibilities at the Young Carers' Festival, org`nised | :41:57. | :41:58. | |
With me now is Lily Caprani from the Children's Society | :41:59. | :42:11. | |
She's got a few different disabilities, | :42:12. | :42:19. | |
Mental illnesses, depression and some other things | :42:20. | :42:22. | |
You've got to do a bit of physical work and a bit | :42:23. | :42:27. | |
I've got to be there emotionally for her, I've got to be somd that | :42:28. | :42:35. | |
issue can lean on, both physically and emotion`lly | :42:36. | :42:43. | |
I've been doing it since I was 1, about eight years. | :42:44. | :42:54. | |
Have you noticed a change in the way that people relate to you and her? | :42:55. | :42:58. | |
Are things getting better the young carers? | :42:59. | :43:00. | |
Definitely but I would say that's never been | :43:01. | :43:02. | |
We've got a lot of fantastic support. | :43:03. | :43:05. | |
You're involved, they deal with the whole falily | :43:06. | :43:16. | |
Which is, Lily, what your society has been pushing for | :43:17. | :43:18. | |
For years we've been saying that when care and support is offered to | :43:19. | :43:23. | |
the whole family, a young c`rer can do the care they want to do for the | :43:24. | :43:27. | |
person they love but they gdt the right support so it doesn't affect | :43:28. | :43:31. | |
their education and their hdalth and their life. | :43:32. | :43:33. | |
Unfortunately, that's not the case everywhdre | :43:34. | :43:34. | |
in the country and many young carers go under the radar and are puietly | :43:35. | :43:38. | |
getting on with it but unfortunately not getting the support thex need. | :43:39. | :43:41. | |
We have now got new legislation which, hopefully, if it works, | :43:42. | :43:43. | |
It's a benchmark because not all local authorities do | :43:44. | :43:49. | |
as they are supposed to, but what do you hope will change? | :43:50. | :43:52. | |
When there's somebody in thd family ` an adult or another child ` | :43:53. | :43:55. | |
who is disabled and they nedd some care, they get an assessment | :43:56. | :43:58. | |
but they don't always then `ssess what the whole family needs | :43:59. | :44:01. | |
It should mean that if there is a young person who is | :44:02. | :44:05. | |
taking up the slack for the care, that gets recognised | :44:06. | :44:08. | |
It's absolutely got to happdn, otherwise young carers will find | :44:09. | :44:18. | |
it starts to affect their lhves and education, which is unf`ir. | :44:19. | :44:21. | |
And it does affect carers' education, doesn't it? | :44:22. | :44:23. | |
Across the country, if you look nationally, on `verage, | :44:24. | :44:25. | |
young people who been caring for somebody in the family end tp with | :44:26. | :44:29. | |
It is completely avoidable, completely unfair. | :44:30. | :44:32. | |
It's a terrible cost to thel but it's also a cost to society, really. | :44:33. | :44:35. | |
We're wasting their potenti`l and it doesn't need to happdn. | :44:36. | :44:40. | |
You don't want people to feel sorry for you. | :44:41. | :44:44. | |
Here you are on the programle, doing a great job. | :44:45. | :44:49. | |
But you need time to enjoy xour childhood and you might losd that. | :44:50. | :44:53. | |
It does almost feel like I've been forced | :44:54. | :44:59. | |
I was commenting on your retro hairstyle! | :45:00. | :45:03. | |
But seriously, do you worry about your mum, as you get older, and who | :45:04. | :45:11. | |
is going to look after her hf you want to go off and do other things? | :45:12. | :45:16. | |
Yeah, I've thought about moving out a few times but I've always been | :45:17. | :45:19. | |
worried about who would be there to look after her when I'm gond. | :45:20. | :45:23. | |
Giving them the festival is quite a thing. | :45:24. | :45:36. | |
Talk to any carer and it is inspirational what they will do | :45:37. | :45:49. | |
The young carers are just f`ntastic and when I've spoken to people, | :45:50. | :45:56. | |
the stories that they have `nd how they're managing... There's | :45:57. | :45:58. | |
something right about what Ben says about experiencing your childhood | :45:59. | :46:01. | |
That does get pushed back and we need to encourage th`t. | :46:02. | :46:06. | |
We've just done a new schemd in West Sussex, we've got volunteers | :46:07. | :46:13. | |
who will drive young carers to an evening out, a youth club, | :46:14. | :46:16. | |
doing something so they don't lose contact because all of that is part | :46:17. | :46:20. | |
But if you want an inspirathonal story, talk to young carers. | :46:21. | :46:26. | |
Giving people the label of "young carer" ` | :46:27. | :46:30. | |
maybe not all young people would identify themselves as caring but | :46:31. | :46:35. | |
That's a continuing enormous problem nationally and I really want to give | :46:36. | :46:47. | |
three cheers for the young carers and the festival. | :46:48. | :46:51. | |
I hear an enormous amount from those young carers | :46:52. | :46:56. | |
but they are just the tip of the iceberg and even the official | :46:57. | :47:01. | |
170,000 young people are caring across the country. | :47:02. | :47:07. | |
That's probably about half of what is really the case `nd, | :47:08. | :47:11. | |
in many instances, those ard young people who are not telling `nybody | :47:12. | :47:15. | |
That means that maybe they have absences from school or homd were | :47:16. | :47:28. | |
coming in late `` homework, which is just looked at as something | :47:29. | :47:31. | |
where they can't be bothered or their having other problems. | :47:32. | :47:35. | |
Getting accurate information and support | :47:36. | :47:36. | |
But getting that accurate information about who is re`lly | :47:37. | :47:40. | |
doing this and they don't pdrhaps want to be identified and l`belled | :47:41. | :47:44. | |
as a carer because that is `lso quite often an issue in terls of, | :47:45. | :47:49. | |
they can't grow to meet their friends | :47:50. | :47:57. | |
because they've got to go and sort their mum out or whatever it is | :47:58. | :48:00. | |
It's got to be done and very sensitively and carefully | :48:01. | :48:03. | |
and understanding the whole life of that young person, not jtst | :48:04. | :48:05. | |
It is taking the youngsters seriously. | :48:06. | :48:10. | |
Here is a crazy idea ` why don't we give people under 18 the vote? | :48:11. | :48:14. | |
Do you think it's 16`year`olds voted ` I won't ask you for the official | :48:15. | :48:20. | |
I think we might need more teaching in schools regarding the issue. | :48:21. | :48:32. | |
It's identifying and working with people and not | :48:33. | :48:44. | |
putting people in a box bec`use you're a whole person and you just | :48:45. | :48:49. | |
You've got to deal with it sensitively | :48:50. | :48:53. | |
Being a young carer is incredibly complex. | :48:54. | :48:59. | |
One thing you'd like to see improved? | :49:00. | :49:01. | |
You've got the legislation, a bit of a culture change. | :49:02. | :49:05. | |
The legislation has to turn into practice. | :49:06. | :49:07. | |
The proof will be in the pudding so every local authority nedds to | :49:08. | :49:10. | |
implement it now and make stre no young person is taking up the slack | :49:11. | :49:14. | |
A Dorset group campaigning for better access for peopld with | :49:15. | :49:25. | |
disabilities has begun a new project to give an insight into the everyday | :49:26. | :49:29. | |
They're doing it in a rather clever way ` by training a dozen mdmbers to | :49:30. | :49:34. | |
become citizen journalists, Hillman their experiences. | :49:35. | :49:35. | |
We've been out in Poole to see this sort of issues | :49:36. | :49:43. | |
This film was made to highlhght local accessibility issues | :49:44. | :50:00. | |
It was produced by, and stars, Kelvin Trevitt, who was born | :50:01. | :50:06. | |
without limbs and has spent almost 50 years in a wheelchair. | :50:07. | :50:11. | |
He volunteers, has worked as a social workdr, | :50:12. | :50:13. | |
But like many wheelchair usdrs in Dorset, even a trip to | :50:14. | :50:19. | |
This area is a particular problem because during the winter months, | :50:20. | :50:33. | |
when it was really dark, a xoung girl in a wheelchair actually fell | :50:34. | :50:36. | |
What's the chance of me getting a train here today? | :50:37. | :50:45. | |
This type of pavement gives you a real juddery ride. | :50:46. | :50:54. | |
For people with a back problem, it's extremely difficult. | :50:55. | :50:59. | |
Kelvin and a dozen others have been trained | :51:00. | :51:01. | |
to become citizen journalists, recording their experiences | :51:02. | :51:05. | |
battling the pavements and fighting to access services, too. | :51:06. | :51:09. | |
Their films are already havhng an impact. | :51:10. | :51:11. | |
We filmed it and I sent it to the council and they agreed that it | :51:12. | :51:25. | |
wasn't acceptable that wheelchair users had to go into the ro`d so it | :51:26. | :51:31. | |
I think we do really well in this borough in terms | :51:32. | :51:39. | |
of our quality is agenda but there's always room for improvement so | :51:40. | :51:45. | |
if there are some accessibility issues that people find, we're very | :51:46. | :51:55. | |
interested to hear about thdm. `` our equalities agenda. | :51:56. | :51:57. | |
It's nine years since disabhlity legislation was enacted. | :51:58. | :51:59. | |
And the sort of things the citizen journalists are telling | :52:00. | :52:09. | |
you ` the sort of thing that should have been sorted out all along. | :52:10. | :52:12. | |
We are very responsive to accessibility issues. | :52:13. | :52:14. | |
That's why we need this project to find out what the problems `re | :52:15. | :52:17. | |
Is it a shame that it is down to them to find these hssues? | :52:18. | :52:22. | |
The citizen journalists' mahn bugbear is Access ability, | :52:23. | :52:29. | |
or rather the lack of it. `` accessibility. | :52:30. | :52:31. | |
This Bournemouth train stathon has a lift that hasn't been used | :52:32. | :52:37. | |
That means there's no disabled access to the platforms below | :52:38. | :52:40. | |
South West Trains will offer a free pre`booked taxi servhce to | :52:41. | :52:43. | |
connect with other stations nearby but campaigners say that isn't good | :52:44. | :52:46. | |
The group have now set their sights a little higher. | :52:47. | :52:51. | |
Their efforts have even been raised in Parliament. | :52:52. | :53:00. | |
I wrote to South West Trains and they said, " | :53:01. | :53:03. | |
Wane the Government because it isn't part of the franchise agreelent . | :53:04. | :53:13. | |
`` blame the Government. All the people of Bournemouth want hs | :53:14. | :53:17. | |
the lifts to be working so H'd like the minister to come to Bournemouth | :53:18. | :53:21. | |
The transport secretary will now visit next month. | :53:22. | :53:24. | |
Access Dorset says progress is slow going. | :53:25. | :53:26. | |
It's unacceptable that disabled people who have | :53:27. | :53:28. | |
the legal right to fair accdss to goods and services since 1985 have | :53:29. | :53:31. | |
to wait until 2014 and they still can't access their train st`tion. | :53:32. | :53:34. | |
Disabled people want to go to work, trains, they want to come and visit | :53:35. | :53:38. | |
this destination, and they should be able to access this station. | :53:39. | :53:40. | |
It is about inclusion, which is absolutely essential for a healthy | :53:41. | :53:43. | |
The Access Dorset office volunteers volunteers say that citizen | :53:44. | :53:50. | |
journalism works and really gives them a voice. | :53:51. | :53:52. | |
I think it just gets you out there and encourages you to do thhngs | :53:53. | :53:56. | |
That's the thing I've found the most surprising, really, how easx it is | :53:57. | :53:59. | |
It seems a very natural way to do it. | :54:00. | :54:06. | |
Citizen journalism like this enables users to have more of a say | :54:07. | :54:09. | |
Sorry, mate, it's disgusting, isn't it? | :54:10. | :54:19. | |
That's the thing that I found the best. | :54:20. | :54:23. | |
Ten years since the Disability Discrilination | :54:24. | :54:35. | |
Act and there they are, still not able to get what is needed. | :54:36. | :54:39. | |
One side blaming another ` that isn't right. | :54:40. | :54:41. | |
The 2004 legislation which made access in general | :54:42. | :54:44. | |
a right ` and it had to be `ccess in the same place as anybody else. . | :54:45. | :54:50. | |
Anticipating the needs of disabled people? | :54:51. | :54:59. | |
Not somebody deciding that there was going to be special provision | :55:00. | :55:02. | |
Transport was not included in that piece of legislation | :55:03. | :55:05. | |
And one of the abiding things in a lot of transport services is | :55:06. | :55:10. | |
that people say they will ptt on a special service, get them there by | :55:11. | :55:14. | |
Can you move too quickly with some of these things | :55:15. | :55:27. | |
You can understand why a new development maybe has provision that | :55:28. | :55:44. | |
everything... I think the access groups are absolutely right to | :55:45. | :55:50. | |
highlight the issues becausd they actually see the problem as it is | :55:51. | :55:56. | |
and there's no point in us looking at it so that it's bottom up. | :55:57. | :55:59. | |
It's good to see it through their eyes, isn't it? | :56:00. | :56:02. | |
We had a situation about closing a railway bridge over a levdl | :56:03. | :56:05. | |
crossing and, actually, what we saw was how they viewed the Accdss group | :56:06. | :56:08. | |
was very different to what we saw because, obviously, their position | :56:09. | :56:11. | |
And we would need to do what they can | :56:12. | :56:26. | |
`` we need to do what we can. There is one group who will say that you | :56:27. | :56:32. | |
Are you? We are listening to that group but there are other groups | :56:33. | :56:39. | |
We've just been running a campaign to save the local area | :56:40. | :56:45. | |
network fund, a little fund which achieves a huge amount. | :56:46. | :56:47. | |
We are about finding where we cannot necessarily put massive amotnts | :56:48. | :56:50. | |
of money but it's fallen so money that really delivers. | :56:51. | :56:53. | |
`` small amounts of money that really delivers. | :56:54. | :56:55. | |
We've got lots of examples across the county with that. | :56:56. | :56:59. | |
Some people might have scoffed at the citizen journalists, | :57:00. | :57:05. | |
giving money to disabled people to go out. But in this situation, | :57:06. | :57:08. | |
It puts the issue where it should be, which is how can you, as a | :57:09. | :57:14. | |
disabled person, get around properly and what are the concerns for you, | :57:15. | :57:17. | |
not the concerns of somebodx surveying the issue from af`r? | :57:18. | :57:24. | |
It's absolutely right that ht needs to be done in that wax. | :57:25. | :57:27. | |
It throws up all sorts of issues that a lot of people think | :57:28. | :57:31. | |
Yes, I think that's one of the key gains. | :57:32. | :57:40. | |
Getting on planes, for example, having to pay double effecthvely | :57:41. | :57:48. | |
because you may have an assistant or a carer with you | :57:49. | :57:52. | |
Those are the sorts of things we need to look for to | :57:53. | :58:05. | |
Now our regular round`up of the political week in 60 seconds. | :58:06. | :58:46. | |
Southampton MP John Denham this week called for more support for teachers | :58:47. | :58:49. | |
you. Well, that's the reason why the Queen is not able to come | :58:50. | :00:16. | |
into the Commons and Black Rod has to bash on the door, | :00:17. | :00:19. | |
because five soldiers essentially came to try and arrest the speaker | :00:20. | :00:22. | |
I don't quite think that Desmond Swain or Penny Mord`unt are | :00:23. | :00:26. | |
going to run out of their sdats and run off with the speaker solehow. | :00:27. | :00:33. | |
And you were saying earlier that it's important that employers are | :00:34. | :00:36. | |
There is no question about reservists. | :00:37. | :00:41. | |
We've had two big wars over the last ten years, | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
They keep us safe in this country and they ard doing | :00:46. | :00:55. | |
Perhaps we should be allowed to see them in their uniforms lore | :00:56. | :01:01. | |
That is the Sunday Politics in the South for this Sundax. | :01:02. | :01:07. | |
Thank you to my guests, Louhse Goldsmith and Alan Whitehead. | :01:08. | :01:12. | |
Don't forget to keep up`to`date with Southern politics | :01:13. | :01:14. | |
The address is on the bottol of the screen but, for now, back to Andrew. | :01:15. | :01:24. | |
been problems elsewhere in Europe, but I take your point. Thanks to | :01:25. | :01:29. | |
both of you today. Back to you, Andrew. | :01:30. | :01:34. | |
Now, there have been some less-than-helpful remarks | :01:35. | :01:36. | |
about the way the Labour party makes policy, and they've come | :01:37. | :01:39. | |
from the man who is heading Labour's Policy Review, Jon Cruddas. | :01:40. | :01:43. | |
In a speech to party activists he was recorded saying that, | :01:44. | :01:47. | |
"instrumentalised, cynical nuggets of policy to chime with our focus | :01:48. | :01:50. | |
groups and our press strategies and our desire for a topline in terms of | :01:51. | :01:53. | |
the 24 hour media cycle, dominate and crowd out any | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
He added that Labour's election strategy was being hampered by a | :01:57. | :02:06. | |
The shadow chancellor, Ed Balls was asked about what Mr Cruddas had | :02:07. | :02:19. | |
I talked to him a couple of days ago, and he's not frustrated, he is | :02:20. | :02:28. | |
excited about his policy agenda He is frustrated that one report of 250 | :02:29. | :02:35. | |
pages gets reduced down. So it's our fault? That is the way we live in | :02:36. | :02:41. | |
the world in which we live, but we have big ideas about devolution | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
long term infrastructure spending and new manufacturing policy, new | :02:46. | :02:49. | |
investment in skills, big changes which, let's be honest, I'm really | :02:50. | :02:55. | |
on George Osborne's agenda. How serious is this? It is Wimbledon, so | :02:56. | :03:02. | |
let's call it an unforced error You go to the party speeches, and you | :03:03. | :03:06. | |
don't know who is in the audience. There is no need for something as | :03:07. | :03:09. | |
serious as this to happen. It's hugely serious because it speaks | :03:10. | :03:12. | |
about something people have felt for a long time, that they have doled | :03:13. | :03:16. | |
out little nuggets of policy but no overarching story. There was a quite | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
saying the Ed Miliband has given as a shopping list, not a narrative. | :03:21. | :03:25. | |
When people in the party say things that are true, it's very difficult | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
for people to explain it away. Not sure Mr Miliband can win here. He | :03:30. | :03:33. | |
was recently criticised for not having policies. Now he's being | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
criticised for having too many. I think this line of attack is | :03:38. | :03:40. | |
particularly wounding because he prides himself on being a politician | :03:41. | :03:43. | |
of ideas. That is his unique selling point, and the weight that David | :03:44. | :03:50. | |
Cameron's prime ministerial nature is his selling point. So it is | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
wounding. If I was the Labour Party, before announcing any policy, I | :03:55. | :04:00. | |
would ask can help fix us on the economy? It might be radicalised | :04:01. | :04:03. | |
immolating on its own terms, but it's politically useless. -- radical | :04:04. | :04:09. | |
and innovative on its own terms I don't think any member of the public | :04:10. | :04:12. | |
does not think they are not radical enough or creative enough. If | :04:13. | :04:16. | |
anything, it's the opposite. They are a bit nervous about what a | :04:17. | :04:19. | |
Labour government could do and nervous about the economic | :04:20. | :04:22. | |
reputation. Reassurance, caution, maybe a bit of timidity might be the | :04:23. | :04:28. | |
notions that inform their policies or should inform their policies in | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
night -- my view, not the opposite. I am worried for Jon Cruddas, | :04:34. | :04:36. | |
because anyone who questions the Labour Party are part of the nexus | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
of the banking industry who are terrified of a Labour victory. It's | :04:41. | :04:44. | |
interesting that this goes to the heart of the debate in the Labour | :04:45. | :04:47. | |
Party, at the highest levels, do they put a big offer to the British | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
people, or a little off, John Cruddas offer, or Douglas Alexander | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
offer? Ed Miliband says that his ideas about freezing energy prices | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
and rent controls are a big offer, but his policy chief clearly has | :05:03. | :05:05. | |
real concerns that they don't go far enough. How important a figure is | :05:06. | :05:11. | |
John Cruddas in the project? He is hell of the -- head of the policy | :05:12. | :05:15. | |
review and has a huge amount of power, and so him slagging off the | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
policy review is a bad moment. He is trusted in that inner circle and the | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
problem for Ed Miliband from the odd is that he has people with strong | :05:25. | :05:28. | |
opinions, Maurice clasping is another, big thinkers, but they | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
maybe don't have a precaution that a professional politician might have | :05:33. | :05:35. | |
in terms of giving bland answers. So, David Cameron had to apologise | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
after his former director of communications was convicted | :05:41. | :05:43. | |
of phone hacking. David Cameron's other former friend, | :05:44. | :05:44. | |
Rebekah Brooks, had a better day. At the same trial, she was cleared | :05:45. | :05:48. | |
of all the charges against her. I take full responsibility for | :05:49. | :05:58. | |
employing Andy Coulson. I did some on the basis of undertakings I was | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
given by him about phone hacking and those turned out not to be the case. | :06:03. | :06:05. | |
I always said that if they turned out to be wrong, I would make a full | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
and frank apology, and I do that today. I am extremely sorry that I | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
employed him. It was the wrong decision. I'm clear about that. When | :06:15. | :06:19. | |
I was arrested it was in the middle of a maelstrom of controversy, | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
politics and of comment. Some of that was there, but much of it was | :06:24. | :06:29. | |
not, so I'm grateful to the jury for coming to that decision. Not been a | :06:30. | :06:37. | |
great week for David Cameron. Andy Coulson found guilty, and another | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
person who had worked in Downing Street is also charged on an | :06:42. | :06:47. | |
unrelated issue. And he was 26- on the wrong end in Brussels, and there | :06:48. | :06:50. | |
is a poll this morning which no one seems to be talking about which puts | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
Labour nine points ahead. Before all that there was Dominic Cummings | :06:55. | :06:56. | |
criticising the Downing Street operation is being shambolic. Is Mr | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
Cameron's judgement becoming an issue? Yes, what often happens when | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
one leader is under pressure for long enough, as Ed Miliband has been | :07:07. | :07:09. | |
the six months, we get bored. We then switch the Gatling gun to the | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
other guy. So David Cameron going into the Conference season might be | :07:15. | :07:16. | |
the man under pressure. The whole Andy Coulson saga has raised | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
questions about his judgement and those around him, but any political | :07:21. | :07:24. | |
damage she was going to sustain over Andy Coulson and phone hacking was | :07:25. | :07:27. | |
sustained years ago -- he was going. It was Brother beyond the | :07:28. | :07:30. | |
date the News of the World was closed down three summers ago - it | :07:31. | :07:36. | |
was probably on the date. As the hacking trial cut through to the | :07:37. | :07:42. | |
general public? Or is it just as media and political obsessives? I am | :07:43. | :07:45. | |
sure it has cut through in some way but it didn't necessarily happen in | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
recent days, more likely in recent years. It was some time ago that | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
Andy Coulson resigned in high profile circumstances. It has had a | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
slow burning effect over a few years, and the Prime Minister fears | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
the Big Bang. But there is one theme and words that unites this week with | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
Juncker and Andy Coulson, and that is that the Prime Minister can be | :08:07. | :08:10. | |
lackadaisical. He was lackadaisical in not asking big question is when | :08:11. | :08:13. | |
there was a lot in the public domain about what had happened that the | :08:14. | :08:16. | |
News of the World. And he was lackadaisical with Juncker. He made | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
a calculation that Angela Merkel would support him and it turned out | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
she couldn't. Maybe he needs to change. He was late in understanding | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
what was happening in Germany when both the Christian Democrats, her | :08:30. | :08:35. | |
party, wanted Juncker, and when the actual Murdoch press of Germany said | :08:36. | :08:38. | |
that they wanted him as well. He never saw that. He only looks at one | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
person in Germany, Angela Merkel, and it is a grand coalition, and the | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
SDP felt strongly about it. He is, in a sense, an essay crisis Prime | :08:50. | :08:52. | |
Minister. He is, in a sense, an essay crisis Prime Minister. He s | :08:53. | :08:55. | |
very good in an essay, and the SA gets a double first the essay. Is Ed | :08:56. | :09:03. | |
Miliband right to be angry? He has John Cruddas attacking him, and that | :09:04. | :09:05. | |
is the news leading in the Sunday Times, and has not been a good week | :09:06. | :09:11. | |
the Prime Minister and in which Mr Miliband has a bigger lead in the | :09:12. | :09:14. | |
polls than he has had some time so he must be wondering why they are | :09:15. | :09:18. | |
having a go at him. He made a tactical error in Prime Minister's | :09:19. | :09:20. | |
Questions by asking all the questions about Andy Coulson. The | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
one at the end about what Gus O'Donnell said was rather hopeful in | :09:26. | :09:29. | |
the extreme. Politicians can be out of touch on all sides of the house. | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
The problem is, and there is a great quote by William Hague, is that the | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
Tory party has two modes, panic and complacency. At the moment they are | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
complacent. They think Ed Miliband will lose Labour election but I | :09:42. | :09:43. | |
don't know if they have a positive plan about how to win it. -- lose | :09:44. | :09:45. | |
Labour the election. Now, we knew Prince Charles had | :09:46. | :09:48. | |
trouble keeping his views about the environment | :09:49. | :09:51. | |
and the countryside to himself, but that's not the only thing he's | :09:52. | :09:53. | |
passionate about according to a radio four documentary to be | :09:54. | :09:56. | |
broadcast this lunchtime. Here's former Education Secretary, | :09:57. | :09:58. | |
David Blunkett on how the Prince had once attempted to influence | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
his policy on schools. I would explain that our policy was | :10:04. | :10:10. | |
not to expand grammar schools, and he didn't like that. He was very | :10:11. | :10:15. | |
keen that we should go back to a different era where youngsters had | :10:16. | :10:19. | |
what he would've seen as the opportunity to escape from their | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
background, where as I wanted to change their background. | :10:24. | :10:25. | |
And you can hear that documentary - it's called The Royal Activist | :10:26. | :10:28. | |
Does it matter that Prince Charles is getting involved in this kind of | :10:29. | :10:36. | |
policy, released behind closed doors question mark on the issue of | :10:37. | :10:39. | |
grammar schools is not clear anybody listened to him. I think it is a | :10:40. | :10:45. | |
principal problem. I've spoken to form a government members, and | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
judging by what they say, if anything we underestimate how much | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
contacting makes with ministers And how many representations he makes on | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
the issue that interest him. There has been an attempt to keep it | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
hidden. It's almost a theological question about whether the future | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
monarch should be involved in the public realm. If he wants to | :11:07. | :11:09. | |
influence policy, shouldn't we know what policy he's trying to influence | :11:10. | :11:14. | |
and what position he is taking? Sewer speech is better than private | :11:15. | :11:19. | |
one-on-one lobbying. Possibly - so a speech. Prince Charles's views are | :11:20. | :11:25. | |
interesting. He's not a straight down the light reactionary. He makes | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
a left-wing case for rammer schools. There is an interview with him in | :11:30. | :11:31. | |
the Financial Times in which his argument in favour for architectural | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
development takes into account affordable housing in the wake which | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
no one would have suspected. He has interesting views, but I'm not | :11:41. | :11:42. | |
convinced on the point of principle whether someone is dashing his | :11:43. | :11:49. | |
position should be speaking. Your former employer 's famously | :11:50. | :11:55. | |
described him as the SDP king. You slightly feel sorry for him. He s 66 | :11:56. | :12:01. | |
and still an apprentice. He's in a difficult position. We know what the | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
powers of the monarch are. They are to advise in courage and warned the | :12:07. | :12:09. | |
Prime Minister of the day. These in the difficult position where the | :12:10. | :12:13. | |
problem for him is that there is a line that isn't really defined, but | :12:14. | :12:16. | |
you slightly feel he just gets a bit too close to it and possibly crosses | :12:17. | :12:22. | |
that line with the lobbying that goes on. I think the worrying thing | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
is that at some point he will become King and will he know that he has | :12:27. | :12:32. | |
got to work within that framework? He is somebody that cannot win | :12:33. | :12:35. | |
either. If he doesn't take an interest in public policy, he will | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
be thought to be a bit of a waster, going round opening town halls, and | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
when he does have an interest we think, hey, you are in the monarchy, | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
stay out. There's an interesting parallel with first ladies who are | :12:48. | :12:53. | |
encouraged to find a controversial charitable project. Michelle Obama | :12:54. | :12:56. | |
has bought childhood obesity, and that is the standard thing. | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
Everybody knows that that is a bad thing, but you are not offering | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
solutions that are party political. I feel there must be a middle way | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
with what he should be able to do about finding big causes he can | :13:09. | :13:11. | |
complain about without getting stuck into lobbying ministers. Which can | :13:12. | :13:16. | |
become a party political issue. He has had some influence on | :13:17. | :13:19. | |
architecture, because the buildings we are putting up to date are better | :13:20. | :13:20. | |
than the ones we used to put up The Daily Politics is on BBC 2 | :13:21. | :13:22. | |
at 11:00am We'll be back here | :13:23. | :13:27. | |
at the same time next week. Remember if it's Sunday, | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:33. | :13:36. |