Browse content similar to 20/11/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning folks - welcome to the Sunday Politics. | :00:37. | :00:40. | |
Theresa May says she'll deliver on Brexit but does that mean leaving | :00:41. | :00:43. | |
the EU's Single Market and the Customs Union? | :00:44. | :00:48. | |
Tory MPs campaign for a commitment from the Prime | :00:49. | :00:50. | |
The Chancellor pledges just over a billion pounds worth of spending | :00:51. | :01:03. | |
on Britain's roads but is that it or will there be | :01:04. | :01:09. | |
In the South, noisy neighbotrs. 18 days in the job. | :01:10. | :01:16. | |
With more students living in private housing in Oxford, complaints about | :01:17. | :01:20. | |
Is enough being done about the problem? | :01:21. | :01:24. | |
in London: Is the battle for Richmond Park based on the skies? Or | :01:25. | :01:29. | |
is it about a bigger conflict in Europe? | :01:30. | :01:38. | |
And with me - as always - and, no, these three aren't doing | :01:39. | :01:41. | |
the Mannequin challenge - it's our dynamic, demonstrative | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
dazzling political panel - Helen Lewis, Isabel Oakeshott | :01:46. | :01:47. | |
and Tom Newton Dunn they'll also be tweeting throughout the programme. | :01:48. | :01:51. | |
First this morning - Theresa May has said | :01:52. | :01:56. | |
"Brexit means Brexit" - but can the Prime Minister - | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
who was on the Remain side of argument during the referendum | :02:00. | :02:01. | |
Well, Leave-supporting Tory MPs are re-launching | :02:02. | :02:09. | |
the "European Research Group" this morning to keep Mrs May's feet | :02:10. | :02:17. | |
Are you worried that you cannot trust Theresa May until payment to | :02:18. | :02:27. | |
deliver full Brexit was Magellan like I totally trust Theresa May, | :02:28. | :02:33. | |
100% behind her. She has displayed a massive amount of commitment to | :02:34. | :02:36. | |
making a success of Brexit for the country. | :02:37. | :02:39. | |
We don't know that yet, because nothing has happened. Why, then | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
have you formed a pressure group? We were fed up with the negativity | :02:44. | :02:50. | |
coming out around Brexit. I feel positive about the opportunities we | :02:51. | :02:54. | |
face, and we are a group to provide suggestions. Who do you have in mind | :02:55. | :02:57. | |
when you talk about negativity the Chancellor? No, from the Lib Dems, | :02:58. | :03:04. | |
for example, from Labour MPs. This is a pressure group for leaving | :03:05. | :03:11. | |
membership of the single market and customs union, correct? That is what | :03:12. | :03:16. | |
we are proposing. It has a purpose other than just to combat | :03:17. | :03:19. | |
negativity. When it comes to membership of the single market and | :03:20. | :03:24. | |
the customs union, can you tell us what Government policy is towards | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
both or either? Rightly, the Government hasn't made the position | :03:29. | :03:32. | |
clear, and I think that is the right approach, because we don't want to | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
review our negotiating hand. What we're saying... I'm not asking what | :03:38. | :03:44. | |
you are saying. Can you tell us what Government policy is towards | :03:45. | :03:46. | |
membership of these institutions? The Government wants to make sure | :03:47. | :03:51. | |
British businesses have the right to trade with EU partners, to forge new | :03:52. | :03:55. | |
trade deals with the rest of the world. We hope to Reza may speak at | :03:56. | :04:03. | |
Mansion house this week. -- we had Theresa May speak at Mansion house | :04:04. | :04:06. | |
this week. She has been clear, saying it was not a binary choice. | :04:07. | :04:12. | |
And she's right. Let's run that tape, because I want to pick up on | :04:13. | :04:15. | |
what she did say. This is what she had to say about the customs union | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
at Prime Minister's Question Time. On the whole question of the customs | :04:21. | :04:25. | |
union, trading relationships that we have with the European Union and | :04:26. | :04:28. | |
other parts of the world once we have left the European Union, we are | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
preparing carefully for the formal negotiations. We are preparing | :04:34. | :04:43. | |
carefully for the formal negotiations. We want to ensure we | :04:44. | :04:46. | |
have the best possible trading deal with the EU once we have left. Do | :04:47. | :04:52. | |
you know what she means when she says being in the customs union is | :04:53. | :04:56. | |
not a binary choice? I think she's right when she says that. At the | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
moment, and you know this, as long as we are in the customs union, we | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
cannot set our own tariffs or rules, cannot have a free trade agreement | :05:06. | :05:08. | |
with the US or China. We need to leave a customs union to do that. | :05:09. | :05:14. | |
Binary means either you are in or you are out, self which is it? We | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
still want to trade with the EU and I think we can have a free trade | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
agreement with the EU. That is a separate matter, and it has to do | :05:23. | :05:29. | |
with the single market. What about the customs union? We need to leave | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
the customs union. We do it and properly. That is how to get the | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
most out of this opportunity. Summit is a binary choice? The Prime | :05:39. | :05:41. | |
Minister is right when she says it's not a binary choice. Both can't be | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
right. We can leave the customs union, get their benefits, and have | :05:47. | :05:54. | |
a free trade agreement with zero tariffs with the EU. So it is a | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
binary choice an either be stale really. Yellow like I am saying the | :06:00. | :06:02. | |
Prime Minister is right when she says it is not a binary choice. -- I | :06:03. | :06:09. | |
am saying the Prime Minister is right. We need clarity. Youth had | :06:10. | :06:17. | |
said -- you have said it is a binary choice. We need to leave the | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
constraints of the customs union. It pushes up prices. The EU is not | :06:23. | :06:26. | |
securing the right trade deals, and if we want to make the most of it, | :06:27. | :06:29. | |
we need to get out there and get some deals going. Do you accept that | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
if we remain in the customs union, we cannot do our own free-trade | :06:35. | :06:39. | |
deals? Yellow right 100%. That is why we have to leave. -- 100%. Do | :06:40. | :06:55. | |
you accept that if we leave the customs union but stay with | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
substantial access, I don't say membership, but substantial access | :07:00. | :07:02. | |
to the single market, that goods going from this country to the | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
single market because we're no longer in the union will be subject | :07:07. | :07:11. | |
to complicated rules of origin regulations, which could cost | :07:12. | :07:19. | |
business ?13 billion a year? I would like to see a free-trade agreement | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
between the UK and the EU. Look at the Canadian deal. I give you that, | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
but if we're not in the customs union, things that we bring in on | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
our own tariffs once we've left we can't just export again willy-nilly | :07:33. | :07:37. | |
to the EU. They will demand to see rules of origin. Norway has to do | :07:38. | :07:40. | |
that at the moment and it is highly complicated expensive. I think if we | :07:41. | :07:46. | |
agree a particular arrangement as part of this agreement with the EU, | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
we can reach an agreement on that which sets a lower standard, which | :07:51. | :07:56. | |
sets a different level of tariffs, which protects some of our | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
industries. Let's suppose we have pretty much free trade with the EU | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
but we are out of the customs union, and let's suppose that the European | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
Union has a 20% tariff on Japanese whisky and we decide to have a % | :08:10. | :08:18. | |
tariff - what then happens to the whisky that comes into Britain and | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
goes on to the EU? The EU will not let that in. That will be part of | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
the negotiation. I think there is a huge benefit for external operators. | :08:28. | :08:34. | |
Every bottle of Japanese whisky they will have to work out the rules | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
of origin. There have been studies that show there is a potential for | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
50% increase in global product if we leave. We're losing the benefits of | :08:45. | :08:49. | |
free trade. I understand, I am asking for your particular view | :08:50. | :08:50. | |
Thank you for that. Is it not surprising Mr Hannan could | :08:51. | :08:59. | |
not bring himself to say we would leave the customs union? It is | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
messy. The reason there is this new group of Tory MPs signing up to a | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
campaign to make sure we get a genuine Brexit is because there is | :09:10. | :09:15. | |
this vacuum. It is being filled with all sorts of briefing from the other | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
side. There is a real risk in the minds of Brexit supporting MPs that | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
the remaining side are going to try to hijack the process, not only | :09:25. | :09:27. | |
through the Supreme Court action, which I think most Brexit MPs seem | :09:28. | :09:33. | |
to accept the appeal will fail, but further down the line, through | :09:34. | :09:39. | |
amendments to the great repeal bill. This is a pressure group to try to | :09:40. | :09:42. | |
hold the Prime Minister to account. There is plenty of pressure on the | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
Prime Minister effectively to stay in the single market and the customs | :09:47. | :09:51. | |
union, and if you do both of these things, de facto, you have stayed in | :09:52. | :09:57. | |
the EU. She is in a difficult position because there is no good | :09:58. | :10:00. | |
faith assumption about what Theresa May wants because she was a | :10:01. | :10:07. | |
Remainer. There is all this talk about a transitional arrangement, | :10:08. | :10:10. | |
but she can't sell that as someone who voted to remain. The way Isabel | :10:11. | :10:16. | |
has characterised it is interesting. There is a betrayal narrative. | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
Everyone is looking to say that she has betrayed the true Brexit. Since | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
the Government cannot give a clear indication of what it once in terms | :10:25. | :10:30. | |
of the customs union, which sets external tariffs, or the single | :10:31. | :10:34. | |
market, which is the free movement of people, capital, goods and | :10:35. | :10:37. | |
services, others are filling this vacuum. Right. The reasons they | :10:38. | :10:45. | |
can't do this are, first, they don't know if they can get it or not. We | :10:46. | :10:48. | |
saw this with the renegotiation the last Prime Minister. What are they | :10:49. | :10:55. | |
hoping to get? The world on a stick, to get cake and eat it. You go into | :10:56. | :11:05. | |
a negotiation saying, let's see what we can get in total. Are they going | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
to ask the membership of the single market? Yellow I think they will ask | :11:11. | :11:14. | |
for a free trade agreement involving everything. You can demand what you | :11:15. | :11:26. | |
want. The question is, do they stand a cat's chance in hell of getting | :11:27. | :11:32. | |
it? They don't know. Welcome back. We will be back, believe me. It is | :11:33. | :11:37. | |
150 day since we found out the UK had voted to leave the EU, but as we | :11:38. | :11:43. | |
have heard, remain and leave campaigners continue to battle about | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
what type of relationship we should have with the EU after exit. | :11:48. | :11:55. | |
Leave campaigners say that leaving the EU | :11:56. | :11:56. | |
also means quitting the | :11:57. | :11:57. | |
Single Market, the internal European trading bloc that includes free | :11:58. | :12:00. | |
movement of goods, services, capital and people. | :12:01. | :12:02. | |
They point to evidence that leading Leave supporting | :12:03. | :12:03. | |
politicians ruled out staying in the Single Market during | :12:04. | :12:06. | |
Andrea Leadsom, for example, said it would almost | :12:07. | :12:08. | |
certainly be the case that the UK would come out of the Single Market. | :12:09. | :12:18. | |
When asked for a yes or no on whether the UK should stay | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
"No, we should be outside the Single Market." | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
And Boris Johnson agreed with his erstwhile ally, saying, "Michael | :12:26. | :12:28. | |
Gove was absolutely right to say the UK | :12:29. | :12:30. | |
They've released a video of clips of Leave campaigners speaking before | :12:31. | :12:41. | |
the referendum apparently saying that the UK should stay in the | :12:42. | :12:44. | |
Nigel Farage, for example, once said that on leaving | :12:45. | :12:47. | |
the EU we'll find ourselves part of the European economic area | :12:48. | :12:50. | |
Owen Paterson, the former Environment Secretary, | :12:51. | :12:52. | |
once made the startling statement that only a madman would actually | :12:53. | :12:59. | |
And Matthew Elliott, the Vote Leave chief, said | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
that the Norwegian option would be initially attractive for some | :13:05. | :13:07. | |
But do these quotes create an accurate picture of what | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
To cast some light on where these quotes came from we're | :13:12. | :13:18. | |
joined by James McGrory, director of Open Britain | :13:19. | :13:20. | |
Welcome to the Sunday Politics. . Your video has statements from leave | :13:21. | :13:34. | |
campaigners hinting they want to stay in the single market. How many | :13:35. | :13:37. | |
were made during the referendum campaign? I don't know. Not one was | :13:38. | :13:45. | |
made during the referendum campaign. Indeed, only two of the 12 | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
statements were recorded after Royal assent had been given to the | :13:51. | :13:53. | |
referendum. Only one was made this year before the referendum. | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
Throughout the campaign am a leave campaigners lauded the Norwegian | :13:59. | :14:01. | |
model. Norway are in the single market but not in the EU. They went | :14:02. | :14:07. | |
out of their way not to be pinned down on a specific trading | :14:08. | :14:10. | |
arrangement they want to see in the future with Europe, when the | :14:11. | :14:14. | |
Treasury model the different models it was the EEA or a free-trade | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
agreement. I understand. Does it not undermine your case that none of the | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
12 statements on your video were made during the campaign itself | :14:24. | :14:28. | |
when people were giving really serious thought to such matters The | :14:29. | :14:32. | |
Leave campaign weren't giving serious thought to such matters | :14:33. | :14:35. | |
They did not set out the future trading model they wanted to see. | :14:36. | :14:41. | |
But you cannot produce a single video with somebody saying we should | :14:42. | :14:45. | |
stay in the single market during the campaign. Daniel Hanna had talked | :14:46. | :14:50. | |
about the Norwegian model as a future option. One comment from | :14:51. | :14:55. | |
Nigel Farage dates back to 2009 when we didn't even know if we would | :14:56. | :14:59. | |
have a referendum or not. Does it not stretch credibility to go back | :15:00. | :15:03. | |
to the time when Gordon Brown was Prime Minister? The overall point | :15:04. | :15:07. | |
stands. It is not supposed to be an exhaustive list of the options. | :15:08. | :15:13. | |
Daniel Hannan, described as the intellectual godfather of the Leave | :15:14. | :15:18. | |
movement is saying that no one is talking about threatening our place | :15:19. | :15:21. | |
in the signal market. I think it's legitimate to point out the Leave | :15:22. | :15:25. | |
campaign never came forward with a credible argument. We have | :15:26. | :15:29. | |
highlighted some of the quotes you picked out from leave campaigners | :15:30. | :15:32. | |
over time. Do you think you have fully encapsulated their arguments | :15:33. | :15:39. | |
accurately? I don't think in a 2nd video you can talk about the full | :15:40. | :15:45. | |
thing. -- a 90-2nd video. Some of them want to seek a free-trade | :15:46. | :15:49. | |
agreement, some to default on to World Trade Organisation tariffs. | :15:50. | :15:57. | |
There is a range of opinion in the Leave campaign. Let's listen to the | :15:58. | :15:59. | |
clip you used on Owen Paterson first. | :16:00. | :16:00. | |
Only a madman would actually leave the market. | :16:01. | :16:07. | |
Only a madman would actually leave the market. | :16:08. | :16:12. | |
It's not the EU which is | :16:13. | :16:13. | |
a political organisation delivering the prosperity and buying our goods. | :16:14. | :16:16. | |
It's the market, it's the members of the market and we'll carry on | :16:17. | :16:20. | |
I mean, are we really suggesting that the | :16:21. | :16:23. | |
economy in the world is not going to come to come | :16:24. | :16:25. | |
to a satisfactory trading arrangement with the EU? | :16:26. | :16:27. | |
Are we going to be like Sudan and North | :16:28. | :16:29. | |
It is ludicrous this idea that we are going to leap off a | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
What he said when he said only a madman would leave Europe, was that | :16:35. | :16:47. | |
we would continue to trade, we would continue to have access. Any country | :16:48. | :16:51. | |
in the world can have access. What the Leave campaign suggested is our | :16:52. | :16:54. | |
trade would continue uninterrupted, they are still at it today, David | :16:55. | :16:58. | |
Davis used the phrase, uninterrupted, from the dispatch box | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
recently. You misrepresented him by saying only a madman would leave the | :17:03. | :17:06. | |
Single Market and stopped it there, because he goes onto say that of | :17:07. | :17:10. | |
course we want Leave in the sense of continuing to have access. I don't | :17:11. | :17:11. | |
think he was about axis, he is talking | :17:12. | :17:30. | |
about membership. He doesn't use the word membership at all. He talks | :17:31. | :17:33. | |
about we are going to carry on trading with them, we will not leap | :17:34. | :17:35. | |
off, we will carry on trading. Anybody can trade with the EU, it's | :17:36. | :17:38. | |
the terms on which you trade that is important and leave campaigners and | :17:39. | :17:40. | |
Patterson is an example of this saying we can trade as we do now, | :17:41. | :17:43. | |
the government saying we can trade without bureaucratic impediments and | :17:44. | :17:45. | |
tariff free. The viewers will make up their mind. Let's listen to the | :17:46. | :17:48. | |
views of Matthew Elliott, the Chief Executive of Vote Leave. | :17:49. | :17:49. | |
When it comes to the Norwegian option, the EEA option, I think that | :17:50. | :17:52. | |
it might be initially attractive for some business people. | :17:53. | :17:54. | |
So you then cut him off there but this is what he went on to say in | :17:55. | :17:58. | |
the same clip, let's listen to that. When it comes to the Norwegian | :17:59. | :18:02. | |
option, the EEA option, I think that it might be initially attractive | :18:03. | :18:05. | |
for some business people. But then again for voters | :18:06. | :18:07. | |
who are increasingly concerned about migration in the EU, | :18:08. | :18:10. | |
they will be very concerned that it allows free movement | :18:11. | :18:13. | |
of people to continue. Again, you have misrepresented him. | :18:14. | :18:25. | |
He said the Norwegian model has attractions but there are real | :18:26. | :18:28. | |
problems if it involves free movement of people, which it does. | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
But you cut that bit out. I challenge anyone to represent them | :18:33. | :18:36. | |
accurately because they took such a range of opinions. I don't know what | :18:37. | :18:39. | |
we are supposed to do. You are misrepresenting them. He is saying | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
the Norwegian option is attractive to business, I understand why. It | :18:44. | :18:47. | |
might not be attractive for voters. But then he said if it allowed free | :18:48. | :18:54. | |
movement of people it could be an issue. You took that out. You are | :18:55. | :18:59. | |
saying this is a definitive position. I'm suggesting you are | :19:00. | :19:01. | |
distorting it. This is what you had Mr Farage say. | :19:02. | :19:04. | |
On D+1 we'll find ourselves part of the European economic area | :19:05. | :19:06. | |
This is what he then went on to say in that same clip that you didn t | :19:07. | :19:14. | |
run. There is absolutely | :19:15. | :19:15. | |
nothing to fear in terms of trade from leaving | :19:16. | :19:17. | |
the on D+1 we'll find ourselves part | :19:18. | :19:18. | |
of the European Economic Area and we should use our | :19:19. | :19:23. | |
membership of the EEA as a holding position from which | :19:24. | :19:31. | |
we can negotiate as the European Union's biggest export | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
market in the world, as good a deal, my goodness me, | :19:36. | :19:37. | |
if Switzerland can have one we So there again, he says not that we | :19:38. | :19:47. | |
should stay in the Single Market as a member, but that we stay in the EA | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
as a transition until we negotiate something. -- EEA. This whole clip | :19:53. | :20:02. | |
is online, how would you get away with this distortion? It is not a | :20:03. | :20:06. | |
distortion, the whole point is to point out they do not have a | :20:07. | :20:09. | |
definitive position, he is arguing for membership of the Single Market, | :20:10. | :20:12. | |
for a transitional period. For the transition. How long does that go | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
on, what does he want to then achieve? Not very quickly but he | :20:18. | :20:20. | |
does not say we should stay members of the Single Market and you didn't | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
let people see what he went on to say, you gave the impression he | :20:25. | :20:27. | |
wanted to stay in the one it. It would not be a video then, it would | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
be a seven-week long lecture. They took so many positions, and the idea | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
now that they were clear with people that we should definitely leave the | :20:36. | :20:39. | |
Single Market I think is fictitious. You are trying to make out they all | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
had one position which was to remain members of the one it. You see the | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
full clips that is not what they are saying. We are trying to point out | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
there is no mandate to leave the Single Market. The idea the Leave | :20:52. | :20:55. | |
campaign spoke with unanimity and clarity of purpose and throughout | :20:56. | :20:58. | |
the whole campaign said we will definitely leave the Single Market | :20:59. | :21:02. | |
is not true. That is the whole point of the media. We showed in the | :21:03. | :21:06. | |
montage in the video just before we came on, we said that then Prime | :21:07. | :21:10. | |
Minister, the then Chancellor, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, being | :21:11. | :21:13. | |
categorical that if you vote to leave the EU, you vote to leave | :21:14. | :21:17. | |
membership of the Single Market What bit of that didn't you | :21:18. | :21:20. | |
understand? Under duress they occasionally said they wanted to | :21:21. | :21:23. | |
leave. Some of them wanted to leave the Single Market. All of the other | :21:24. | :21:29. | |
promises they made, whether ?35 million for the NHS, whether a VAT | :21:30. | :21:34. | |
cut on fuel, points-based system. You do not have a single quote of | :21:35. | :21:37. | |
any of these members saying they want to be a member. Daniel Hannan | :21:38. | :21:41. | |
has said consistently that Norway are a part of the Single Market You | :21:42. | :21:46. | |
spend the referendum campaign criticising for Rim misrepresenting | :21:47. | :21:48. | |
and misrepresenting and lying and many thought they did. Having seen | :21:49. | :21:51. | |
this many will conclude that you are the biggest liars. I think it is | :21:52. | :21:55. | |
perfectly reasonable to point out that the Leave campaign did not have | :21:56. | :21:58. | |
a clear position on our future trading relationship with Europe. | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
That is all this video does. It doesn't say we definitely have to | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
stay in the Single Market, it just says they do have a mandate to drag | :22:07. | :22:10. | |
us out of our biggest trading partner. | :22:11. | :22:12. | |
Now people have seen the full quotes in context our viewers will make up | :22:13. | :22:14. | |
their mind. Thank you. Now - voting closes next week | :22:15. | :22:16. | |
in the the Ukip leadership contest. The second Ukip leadership contest | :22:17. | :22:19. | |
this year after the party's first female leader - Diane James - | :22:20. | :22:21. | |
stood down from the role Since then the party's lurched from | :22:22. | :22:24. | |
farce to fiasco. It's a world gripped by uncertainty, | :22:25. | :22:27. | |
split into factions. Yes, 2, because they're | :22:28. | :22:43. | |
having their second Watch as the alpha male, | :22:44. | :22:53. | |
the Ukip leader at Nigel Watch as the alpha male, | :22:54. | :23:00. | |
the Ukip leader Nigel Farage, hands power to the new alpha | :23:01. | :23:02. | |
female Diane James. The European Parliament | :23:03. | :23:05. | |
in Strasbourg, October. Another leading light and possible | :23:06. | :23:19. | |
future leader, the MEP Steven Wolfe, | :23:20. | :23:22. | |
has been laid low after an alleged tussle with a colleague | :23:23. | :23:24. | |
during a meeting. A few days later he is | :23:25. | :23:27. | |
out of hospital and I will be withdrawing my | :23:28. | :23:29. | |
application to become I'm actually withdrawing | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
myself from Ukip. You're resigning from the party | :23:34. | :23:36. | |
I'm resigning with immediate effect. And this week a leaked document | :23:37. | :23:43. | |
suggested the party improperly spent EU funds on political | :23:44. | :23:46. | |
campaigning in the UK. Another headache for whoever takes | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
over the leadership of the pack One contender is Suzanne Evans, | :23:52. | :23:57. | |
a former Tory councillor and was briefly suspended for | :23:58. | :24:00. | |
disloyalty. Also standing, Paul Nuttall, | :24:01. | :24:09. | |
an MEP from Liverpool who has been by Farage's side | :24:10. | :24:12. | |
as his deputy for six years. There's another big beast | :24:13. | :24:18. | |
in the Ukip leadership contest, and I'm told | :24:19. | :24:20. | |
that today he can be spotted He's John Rees-Evans, | :24:21. | :24:23. | |
a businessman and adventurer who is offering members the chance | :24:24. | :24:28. | |
to propose policies via a website We've got really dedicated | :24:29. | :24:31. | |
passionate supporters who feel like they're not really | :24:32. | :24:45. | |
being listened to and are not even Typically what happens | :24:46. | :24:48. | |
is they just basically sit there until six months before | :24:49. | :24:51. | |
a General Election when they are contacted and asked to go out | :24:52. | :24:53. | |
and leaflet and canvas. Even at branch level people feel | :24:54. | :24:56. | |
there is not an adequate flow of communication | :24:57. | :24:58. | |
up-and-down the party. Are you not going to take part in | :24:59. | :25:00. | |
any hustings? He left a hustings saying | :25:01. | :25:09. | |
the contest was an establishment coronation and has | :25:10. | :25:12. | |
made colourful comments in the past. He's in favour of the death penalty | :25:13. | :25:15. | |
for crimes like paedophilia. I think there is a clear | :25:16. | :25:17. | |
will amongst the offences should be dealt with | :25:18. | :25:19. | |
decisively. But again, on an issue like that, | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
that is something that Our members are not | :25:24. | :25:26. | |
going to agree with me on everything and I don't believe that | :25:27. | :25:31. | |
I would have any authority to have the say and determine | :25:32. | :25:34. | |
the future What method would you use | :25:35. | :25:35. | |
for the death penalty? Again, that is something that could | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
be determined by suggestions made So you'd have like an online | :25:40. | :25:41. | |
poll about whether you use the electric chair, | :25:42. | :25:46. | |
or lethal injection? For example, arguments would be made | :25:47. | :25:52. | |
in favour of This is such a small aspect | :25:53. | :25:54. | |
of what I'm standing for. Essentially, in mainstream media | :25:55. | :25:58. | |
they try to by focusing on pretty irrelevant | :25:59. | :26:00. | |
details. This is one vote that | :26:01. | :26:06. | |
the membership would have. What I'm actually trying to do | :26:07. | :26:08. | |
in this party is to revolutionise the democratic | :26:09. | :26:12. | |
process in the UK, and that's really what your viewers should | :26:13. | :26:15. | |
be concentrating on. With him at the helm he reckons Ukip | :26:16. | :26:19. | |
would win at Meanwhile, in New York, | :26:20. | :26:21. | |
on a visit to Trump Tower, Nigel Farage admired the plumage | :26:22. | :26:29. | |
of the President-elect, a man he has described as | :26:30. | :26:38. | |
a silverback gorilla, a friendship that's been condemned by some | :26:39. | :26:40. | |
in this leadership contest. There are also elections | :26:41. | :26:43. | |
to the party's National Executive Committee, a body | :26:44. | :26:46. | |
that's been roundly criticised by And we're joined now by two | :26:47. | :26:48. | |
of the candidates in the Ukip leadership election - | :26:49. | :27:03. | |
Suzanne Evans and Paul Nuttall. We are going to kick off by giving | :27:04. | :27:13. | |
each of them 30 seconds to lay out their case as to why they would be | :27:14. | :27:16. | |
the less leader starting with Suzanne Evans. | :27:17. | :27:19. | |
Ukip is at its best when it is scaring the political establishment, | :27:20. | :27:22. | |
forcing it to address those problems it would rather ignore. But it | :27:23. | :27:26. | |
really change people's lives for the better and fast, we need to win | :27:27. | :27:30. | |
seats and elections right across the country. To win at the ballot box we | :27:31. | :27:34. | |
need to attract more women, more ethnic | :27:35. | :27:54. | |
minorities, and more of those Labour voters who no longer recognise their | :27:55. | :27:56. | |
party. I know how to do that. Ukip under my | :27:57. | :27:59. | |
leadership will be the same page about it, common-sense, radical | :28:00. | :28:01. | |
party it has always been, just even more successful. Thank you, Suzanne | :28:02. | :28:04. | |
Evans, Paul Nuttall. I'm standing on a platform of unity and experience. | :28:05. | :28:06. | |
I believe the party must come together if it is to survive and | :28:07. | :28:09. | |
prosper. I believe I'm the best candidate to ensure that happens, I | :28:10. | :28:11. | |
am not part of any faction in the party, and beyond that I have done | :28:12. | :28:14. | |
every single job within the party, whether that is as head of policy, | :28:15. | :28:16. | |
whether that is Party Chairman, deputy leader for Nigel for the past | :28:17. | :28:19. | |
six years. I believe Ukip has great opportunities in Labour | :28:20. | :28:21. | |
constituencies where we can move in and become the Patriot invoice of | :28:22. | :28:25. | |
working people, and beyond that we have to ensure the government's feet | :28:26. | :28:28. | |
are held to the fire on Brexit and we get real Brexit, not a | :28:29. | :28:35. | |
mealy-mouthed version. How will you get a grip on this? People have to | :28:36. | :28:39. | |
realise that the cause is bigger than any personality, we have to get | :28:40. | :28:43. | |
together in a room and sort out not just a spokespeople role but roles | :28:44. | :28:46. | |
within the organisation, Party Chairman, party secretary, and | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
whatnot. But as I say, Ukip must unite, we are on 13% in the opinion | :28:52. | :28:55. | |
polls, the future is bright, there are open goals but Ukip must be on | :28:56. | :29:00. | |
the pitch to score them. He says he's the only one that can get a | :29:01. | :29:03. | |
grip on this party. I disagree, I have a huge amount of experience in | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
the party as well and also a background that I think means I can | :29:08. | :29:10. | |
help bring people together. I have always said nothing breeds unity | :29:11. | :29:21. | |
faster than success and under my leadership we will be successful. | :29:22. | :29:23. | |
There is concern about the future of our National Executive Committee | :29:24. | :29:25. | |
going forward. Mr Farage called it the lowest grade of people I have | :29:26. | :29:28. | |
ever met, do you agree? I think he must have been having a bad day I | :29:29. | :29:31. | |
think we need to make it more accountable to the membership, more | :29:32. | :29:34. | |
open, more democratic. What would you do with the National Executive | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
Committee? I have been calling for the National Executive Committee to | :29:40. | :29:43. | |
be elected reasonably since 201 giving the members better | :29:44. | :29:45. | |
communication lines and make it far more transparent. Would you have a | :29:46. | :29:50. | |
clear out of the office? I wouldn't, I think the chairman of the party, | :29:51. | :29:54. | |
Paul Upton, the interim chairman, is doing a good job and the only person | :29:55. | :29:58. | |
who has come out of the summer with his reputation enhanced. Let me show | :29:59. | :30:01. | |
you a picture we have all seen of your current leader, Mr Farage, with | :30:02. | :30:08. | |
President-elect Donald Trump. Paul Nuttall, you criticise Mr Farage's | :30:09. | :30:11. | |
decision to appear at rallies during the American election and called Mr | :30:12. | :30:16. | |
Trump appalling. Do you stick by that? I wouldn't have voted for him. | :30:17. | :30:21. | |
I made it clear. Do you still think he's appalling now that he is | :30:22. | :30:24. | |
President-elect? Some of the things he said were appalling during the | :30:25. | :30:30. | |
campaign that he said. But he would be good for Britain, trade, | :30:31. | :30:33. | |
pro-Brexit and he is an Anglo file and the first thing he did was put | :30:34. | :30:36. | |
the bust of Winston Churchill back in the Oval Office. You, Suzanne | :30:37. | :30:42. | |
Evans, called Mr Trump one of the weakest candidates the US has had. I | :30:43. | :30:46. | |
said the same about Hillary Clinton. They cannot both be the weakest The | :30:47. | :30:50. | |
better candidate on either side would have beaten the other, that is | :30:51. | :30:54. | |
quite clear. Do you stand by that, or are you glad that your leader Mr | :30:55. | :30:59. | |
Farage has strong ties to him? I am, why wouldn't I be? For Ukip to have | :31:00. | :31:04. | |
that direct connection, it can be only good for a party. Were you not | :31:05. | :31:08. | |
out of step and Mr Farage is in step because it looks like your vote is | :31:09. | :31:11. | |
according to polling I have seemed like Mr Trump and his policies? Let | :31:12. | :31:17. | |
me finish. If I am the leader of Ukip I will not be involving myself | :31:18. | :31:20. | |
in foreign elections, I will because in trading here in this country | :31:21. | :31:24. | |
ensuring we get Ukip people elected to council chambers and get seats in | :31:25. | :31:26. | |
2020. The other thing your leader has in | :31:27. | :31:36. | |
common with Mr Trump is that he rather admires Vladimir Putin. Do | :31:37. | :31:42. | |
you? I don't. If you look at Putin's record, he has invaded Ukraine and | :31:43. | :31:49. | |
Georgia. I am absolutely not a fan. I think that Vladimir Putin is | :31:50. | :31:53. | |
pretty much a nasty man, but beyond that, I believe that in the Middle | :31:54. | :31:58. | |
East, he is generally getting it right in many areas. We need to | :31:59. | :32:05. | |
bring the conflict... Bombing civilians? We need to bring the | :32:06. | :32:09. | |
conflict to an end as fast as possible. The British and American | :32:10. | :32:13. | |
line before Donald Trump is to support rebels, including one is | :32:14. | :32:20. | |
affiliated to Al-Qaeda, to the Taliban. We need to clear these | :32:21. | :32:24. | |
people out and ensure that Syria becomes stable. This controversial | :32:25. | :32:32. | |
breaking point poster from during the referendum campaign. Mr Farage | :32:33. | :32:35. | |
unveiled it, there he is standing in front of it. You can bend it - do | :32:36. | :32:40. | |
you still? Yes, I think it was the wrong poster at the wrong time. I | :32:41. | :32:44. | |
was involved with the vote Leave campaign as well as Ukip's campaign, | :32:45. | :32:49. | |
and I felt strongly that those concerned about immigration were | :32:50. | :32:52. | |
already going to vote to leave because it was a fundamental truth | :32:53. | :32:56. | |
that unless we left the European Union we couldn't control | :32:57. | :32:58. | |
immigration. I thought it was about approaching those soft wavering | :32:59. | :33:07. | |
voters who weren't sure. I don't think I said it was racist, but it | :33:08. | :33:11. | |
was about sovereignty and trade and so forth. That was where we needed | :33:12. | :33:15. | |
to go. I was concerned it might put off some of those wavering voters. | :33:16. | :33:20. | |
People may well say, it was part of the winning campaign. It was Ukip | :33:21. | :33:26. | |
shock and all, which is what you stand for and what makes you | :33:27. | :33:33. | |
different. I said I would know how that I said I would not have gone | :33:34. | :33:36. | |
for that person and I thought it was wrong to do it just a week out from | :33:37. | :33:39. | |
the referendum. However, I believe it released legitimate concerns | :33:40. | :33:46. | |
with a deluge of people making their way from the Middle East and Africa | :33:47. | :33:54. | |
into the European continent. Where is the low hanging fruit for you, | :33:55. | :33:57. | |
particularly in England? Is it Labour or Conservative voters? I | :33:58. | :34:03. | |
want to hang onto the Conservative voters we have got but I think the | :34:04. | :34:08. | |
low hanging fruit is Labour. Jeremy Corbyn won't sing the national | :34:09. | :34:12. | |
anthem, Emily Thornbury despises the English flag. Diane Abbott thinks | :34:13. | :34:16. | |
anyone talking about immigration is racist. Not to mention John | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
McDonnell's feelings about the IRA. Labour has ceased to be a party for | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
working people and I think Ukip is absolutely going to be that party. | :34:25. | :34:29. | |
It is clear, I absolutely concur with everything Suzanne has said. I | :34:30. | :34:35. | |
first voiced this back in 2008 that I believe Ukip has a fantastic | :34:36. | :34:39. | |
opportunity in working-class communities, and everyone laughed at | :34:40. | :34:43. | |
me. It is clear now that we resonate with working people, and you have | :34:44. | :34:45. | |
seen that in the Brexit result. Would you bring back the death | :34:46. | :34:52. | |
penalty? It wouldn't be Ukip policy. Absolutely not. Would you give more | :34:53. | :34:56. | |
money to the NHS and how would your fanatic? You like it is important to | :34:57. | :35:00. | |
fund it adequately, and it hasn t been to date. We promised in our | :35:01. | :35:09. | |
manifesto that we would give more money. Where does the money come | :35:10. | :35:14. | |
from? It is about tackling health tourism. I think the NHS is being | :35:15. | :35:19. | |
taken for a ride at the moment. That may be right, but where does the | :35:20. | :35:24. | |
money come from? It is about scaling back management in the NHS, because | :35:25. | :35:28. | |
that has burgeoned beyond control. They are spending far more money on | :35:29. | :35:33. | |
management. Where would you save money? We need to look at HS two, | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
foreign aid. Now we have Brexit and we will be saving on the membership | :35:39. | :35:43. | |
fee. We need to cut back on management, as Suzanne says. It | :35:44. | :35:46. | |
cannot be right that 51% of people who work for the NHS in England are | :35:47. | :35:53. | |
not clinically qualified. The NHS needs money now - where would you | :35:54. | :35:59. | |
get it? From HS two. That is capital spending spread over a long period. | :36:00. | :36:05. | |
Where will you get the money now? OK, another one. We spent ?25 | :36:06. | :36:09. | |
million every day on foreign aid to countries who sometimes are richer | :36:10. | :36:14. | |
than ourselves. Through the Barnett formula. You would take money away | :36:15. | :36:18. | |
from Scotland? Yes, I think they get far too much. PG tips or Earl Grey? | :36:19. | :36:34. | |
Colegrave. PG tips. Strictly come dancing or X Factor? Neither. | :36:35. | :36:42. | |
Strictly. I would love to be on it one day. There you go. Thank you | :36:43. | :36:47. | |
It's just gone 11:35am, you're watching the Sunday Politics. | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now | :36:52. | :36:54. | |
Coming up here in 20 minutes, the Week Ahead. | :36:55. | :37:12. | |
Welcome to Sunday Politics South, my name's Peter Henley. | :37:13. | :37:13. | |
On today's show, rising tensions between Oxford's neighbours. | :37:14. | :37:16. | |
More students are moving into residential areas, | :37:17. | :37:17. | |
leading to complaints about noise and disruption. | :37:18. | :37:19. | |
But Oxford Brookes University says building an extra | :37:20. | :37:21. | |
1,500 rooms in student halls over the next five years. | :37:22. | :37:23. | |
First, let's meet the two politicians | :37:24. | :37:27. | |
Louise Goldsmith is the Conservative leader of West Sussex Counchl, | :37:28. | :37:31. | |
welcome, Louise. Hello. | :37:32. | :37:32. | |
And Simon Letts is the Labour leader of | :37:33. | :37:34. | |
Southampton City Council. Morning. | :37:35. | :37:36. | |
You're just back from the United States. | :37:37. | :37:38. | |
Yes, I had a week stay in New York with my family. | :37:39. | :37:48. | |
Yes, so, did Donald win or Hillary lose? | :37:49. | :37:49. | |
Yes. Yes. | :37:50. | :37:51. | |
You agree? All the evidence is that wax. | :37:52. | :37:54. | |
It's going to have an impact on us, though, isn't it? | :37:55. | :37:56. | |
The number of Democrat voters that turned out was | :37:57. | :37:59. | |
much lower than for Barack Obama, the previous two times so clearly it | :38:00. | :38:02. | |
is a failure to get your own vote out was the issue. | :38:03. | :38:05. | |
I think there was a lot of people that were | :38:06. | :38:08. | |
unhappy and therefore didn't vote that time ago but the other thing | :38:09. | :38:11. | |
was that a lot of people who didn't normally vote had registered and | :38:12. | :38:15. | |
they were under the radar as far as the polls were concerned, those | :38:16. | :38:19. | |
people came out, but I do know that in New York there were long queues | :38:20. | :38:23. | |
at the polling station when I walked past. | :38:24. | :38:25. | |
What is there to learn for | :38:26. | :38:27. | |
I think it's really important to engage with your residents `nd make | :38:28. | :38:36. | |
sure that you're representing them, putting your case forward. | :38:37. | :38:40. | |
I think that is very important on a local level | :38:41. | :38:43. | |
Take nothing for granted. Absolutely. | :38:44. | :38:45. | |
We have discussed this, and there is a link between Brexit | :38:46. | :38:50. | |
and the Trump vote which saxs that a number of quite a lot of people's | :38:51. | :38:59. | |
felt that their voices had been ignored for a period of timd, and | :39:00. | :39:02. | |
made their voices and loud and clear, and we need to start to | :39:03. | :39:11. | |
listen to those voices, and make sure we adress some of the hssues | :39:12. | :39:14. | |
that they raised, for example living standards. | :39:15. | :39:16. | |
Well, the Autumn Statement hs the opportunity for Philip Hammond. | :39:17. | :39:19. | |
Absolutely. If he wants to. | :39:20. | :39:20. | |
Well, George Osborne used to use it as a bit of a political gamd, | :39:21. | :39:24. | |
Do you think that he's going to be keeping stuff under his | :39:25. | :39:31. | |
hat again, or do you think this infrastructure spending that we re | :39:32. | :39:37. | |
seeing with Trump will be what doing here? | :39:38. | :39:39. | |
got a very difficult job because he's not got a lot | :39:40. | :39:43. | |
of room to move but I think with the industrial | :39:44. | :39:45. | |
strategy and it's really important to invest in the economy now and | :39:46. | :39:48. | |
show that we are very much open for business, we have stated it | :39:49. | :39:51. | |
And I do hope that there will be money for | :39:52. | :39:55. | |
Something is happening there, isn't it? | :39:56. | :39:59. | |
There's been a consultation, on the first phase. | :40:00. | :40:00. | |
The second consultation on @rundell to Worthing will be coming out | :40:01. | :40:03. | |
So we await the announcement, but there are other | :40:04. | :40:06. | |
things that could be done and we are talking | :40:07. | :40:08. | |
about a lot of houses being | :40:09. | :40:10. | |
developed and I'd like to sde personally that we can put | :40:11. | :40:12. | |
infrastructure in first because I think that's what a lot | :40:13. | :40:15. | |
If we have to have the housds, we have to have the | :40:16. | :40:20. | |
infrastructure first, and that's going to be really important. | :40:21. | :40:22. | |
So many times we've heard about housing. | :40:23. | :40:25. | |
Would you like to build your own, in Southampton, | :40:26. | :40:28. | |
I'd like to endorse that pohnt because there is a failure of | :40:29. | :40:31. | |
political decision-making in this country over 50 years that we have | :40:32. | :40:34. | |
not put in the sufficient infrastructure. | :40:35. | :40:37. | |
One of the reasons that we produce less per hour than | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
the French and the Germans `nd the Americans is because people are | :40:43. | :40:45. | |
wasting time trying to get from A to B, and are stuck hn jams. | :40:46. | :40:49. | |
If the M27 was to have an accident, the whole | :40:50. | :40:51. | |
of our local economy, you know, is severely affected for half a day. | :40:52. | :40:54. | |
But these are going to be the big, grandiose, big-ticket things | :40:55. | :40:57. | |
I mean, we just want faster broadband, don't we? | :40:58. | :41:00. | |
Well, we're getting faster broadband. | :41:01. | :41:01. | |
We are looking at 4G and 5G through our | :41:02. | :41:06. | |
Devo bid, so there are other things that are going on. | :41:07. | :41:08. | |
I do think that there is a issue around developing | :41:09. | :41:11. | |
more houses and bringing them on stream. | :41:12. | :41:17. | |
I think if they put that infrastructure in it would be a | :41:18. | :41:20. | |
really welcome thing for many people. | :41:21. | :41:21. | |
Now, it's often been seen as a lifeline for | :41:22. | :41:30. | |
But research by the national association | :41:31. | :41:33. | |
of care catering shows that only a third of people eligible | :41:34. | :41:36. | |
to receive meals on wheels do so, and in the | :41:37. | :41:38. | |
south-east that's one of thd lowest figures in the country. | :41:39. | :41:41. | |
Now, for the first time, the number of councils | :41:42. | :41:43. | |
providing the service has dropped below half. | :41:44. | :41:46. | |
Neil Radia is the national chair of the national | :41:47. | :41:48. | |
This survey shows a steep decline in just two years. | :41:49. | :41:56. | |
We conducted independent research this year that | :41:57. | :42:02. | |
looked at how many top tier local authorities across the UK still | :42:03. | :42:05. | |
provide the meals on wheels service, and our figures showed that less | :42:06. | :42:10. | |
than half are now actively providing the meals on wheels service, which | :42:11. | :42:15. | |
They're pointing people to alternatives, aren't thex? | :42:16. | :42:20. | |
Absolutely. Is that good enough? | :42:21. | :42:22. | |
What we have found in our studies is that those who are not actively | :42:23. | :42:32. | |
providing the service are signposting to services. | :42:33. | :42:34. | |
And you've got some great examples of signposting where they are | :42:35. | :42:37. | |
working in partnership with private providers or working in partnership | :42:38. | :42:39. | |
with social enterprises or dven combining the services | :42:40. | :42:41. | |
Nice! Like we used to back 80 years ago. | :42:42. | :42:46. | |
But then we have also seen in the study that we have done | :42:47. | :42:50. | |
that we have some local authorities who are | :42:51. | :42:54. | |
actually signposting to a wdbsite for the local authority, and having | :42:55. | :42:58. | |
lists of local supermarkets and even in a couple of cases... | :42:59. | :43:02. | |
So, Doris at number 33 loses the meals on wheels, | :43:03. | :43:07. | |
checks the website and they say go to Tesco's. | :43:08. | :43:09. | |
I mean, we've seen a few cases where we've even | :43:10. | :43:14. | |
seen fast food joints on websites saying, you know, you can gdt your | :43:15. | :43:18. | |
services, just a huge list of services on a website, and to be | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
honest with you for somebodx, a senior citizen living in our | :43:23. | :43:26. | |
community, that is quite appalling, to be signposted in such a way. | :43:27. | :43:29. | |
But at the same time, we've had some really good study reports, | :43:30. | :43:32. | |
examples of working in partnership with other people. | :43:33. | :43:38. | |
The problem is if demand drops off in an area or the subsidy | :43:39. | :43:42. | |
is taken away or whatever, ht just becomes much more expensive per | :43:43. | :43:48. | |
meal, and what you're getting from a hot meal, meals on wheels, | :43:49. | :43:51. | |
catering company, whatever, is perhaps not as good as you could get | :43:52. | :43:54. | |
in a supermarket, and stick in a microwave. | :43:55. | :43:56. | |
One of the reasons that we're hearing from local authorithes | :43:57. | :43:58. | |
who are shutting, stopping the meals on wheels service is that they are | :43:59. | :44:01. | |
saying that there is a declhne of people wanting to use the sdrvices. | :44:02. | :44:04. | |
Quite surprising in a nation where we have a rising older | :44:05. | :44:08. | |
Well, maybe it's not just up-to-date enough. | :44:09. | :44:11. | |
Maybe this is a little bit old-fashioned. | :44:12. | :44:12. | |
I disagree with that. Because there are meals services... | :44:13. | :44:16. | |
Unless you actually see some of the quality of | :44:17. | :44:19. | |
the meals that are out therd, there's some very good servhces | :44:20. | :44:22. | |
The problem we have with those local authorities who are | :44:23. | :44:25. | |
shutting the service down is that they are... | :44:26. | :44:29. | |
What they are saying is because of... | :44:30. | :44:32. | |
Well, they're stopping the subsidies, | :44:33. | :44:36. | |
which is making the meals unfundable, and they are not | :44:37. | :44:39. | |
actively monitoring. | :44:40. | :44:47. | |
--marketing. The meals on wheels | :44:48. | :44:48. | |
service is such... It's a preventative service, | :44:49. | :44:50. | |
it's such a vital valuable service, | :44:51. | :44:51. | |
and anyone knows from the commercial side | :44:52. | :44:53. | |
that if you do not market a servhce, | :44:54. | :44:56. | |
to get the uptake, if peopld don't know the service is there pdople | :44:57. | :45:00. | |
Do you see meals on wheels as the future in Southampton, Simon, | :45:01. | :45:06. | |
or is it just a drag on your very tight budget? | :45:07. | :45:09. | |
We have a very unique agreelent I think come across the | :45:10. | :45:11. | |
country, in that we have a provider that used to work for the council | :45:12. | :45:16. | |
who have now set up as a mutual and they provide are meals on wheels | :45:17. | :45:19. | |
service and they also provide an excellent | :45:20. | :45:22. | |
service and they also provide an excellent service | :45:23. | :45:23. | |
There is a partnership between schools and | :45:24. | :45:27. | |
the provider which means thdy share any profit that comes out, `nd so it | :45:28. | :45:31. | |
is a way of encouraging schools to stay with the city service rather | :45:32. | :45:35. | |
So numbers rising or falling? I think they are rising, marginally. | :45:36. | :45:46. | |
The service is provided by City Catering, and we are very pleased | :45:47. | :45:49. | |
It's still pretty tough, isn't it, when | :45:50. | :45:52. | |
the central government funding is being cut, | :45:53. | :45:56. | |
and that is not statutory, and you don't have to provide. | :45:57. | :45:59. | |
And it's absolutely the reason why you | :46:00. | :46:00. | |
should be providing it for all the reasons you said. | :46:01. | :46:03. | |
I'm really proud that we have another unique option | :46:04. | :46:05. | |
in West Sussex with a private provider, we are providing really | :46:06. | :46:07. | |
I know, because I've had a couple of them. | :46:08. | :46:11. | |
And is the take-up rising or falling? It's rising. | :46:12. | :46:14. | |
We have done about over 150,000 meals and | :46:15. | :46:16. | |
that's including about 22,000 that have gone to care centres | :46:17. | :46:19. | |
But we also have a unique offering | :46:20. | :46:25. | |
When they come in, they can have a quick check with the | :46:26. | :46:33. | |
whoever it is, how are they, are they OK? | :46:34. | :46:35. | |
I will say this, because it is important. | :46:36. | :46:45. | |
We've got the two best in the country! | :46:46. | :46:48. | |
task and finish group that put a recommendation in that if people | :46:49. | :46:56. | |
were falling off taking thehr meals, we need to check back and fhnd out | :46:57. | :46:59. | |
why. And, you know, it sounds like such | :47:00. | :47:01. | |
a basic but it is a really important... | :47:02. | :47:03. | |
It is, for society as a whole you see this as an | :47:04. | :47:09. | |
investment that might save money in other places. | :47:10. | :47:10. | |
But the budgeting system doesn't reward bad. | :47:11. | :47:13. | |
I think that it does becausd the key goal is | :47:14. | :47:17. | |
to keep people independent in their own home, and this is part | :47:18. | :47:20. | |
of that, and so if we keep people independent | :47:21. | :47:22. | |
and supported in their own homes that is much more cost-effective, | :47:23. | :47:25. | |
and it is what people gener`lly do, rather than going out of a home | :47:26. | :47:28. | |
setting. So, like somebody | :47:29. | :47:29. | |
coming to the door... Exactly, loneliness | :47:30. | :47:30. | |
is a big issue. | :47:31. | :47:39. | |
Our provider can do many thhngs whether it is salt free | :47:40. | :47:42. | |
diets or whether people havd swallowing diets, you know, no other | :47:43. | :47:44. | |
food producer is going to provide that service. | :47:45. | :47:46. | |
Well done Sussex. And Southampton. | :47:47. | :47:48. | |
According to your survey, that's right, isn't it? | :47:49. | :47:51. | |
One place it is not, it's 100% agreement they will continud | :47:52. | :47:55. | |
in Northern Ireland where the social care and the NHS is combined. | :47:56. | :47:58. | |
Absolutely, so where we havd seen the social care, health budget | :47:59. | :48:01. | |
integrating, we actually st`rted seeing, you know, those are the | :48:02. | :48:05. | |
areas that people have joindd up thinking, a lot of talking, in many | :48:06. | :48:08. | |
So when we did the survey a couple of years ago, therd | :48:09. | :48:12. | |
were a couple of local authorities around the UK where they were | :48:13. | :48:15. | |
actually running on their own social care budget, but then we fotnd out | :48:16. | :48:18. | |
this year that where these budgets are integrated, | :48:19. | :48:20. | |
they have started talking. | :48:21. | :48:22. | |
Prevention is actually far cheaper than cure, | :48:23. | :48:24. | |
and the average cost... | :48:25. | :48:25. | |
The Department of Health last year showcased that the average | :48:26. | :48:30. | |
cost of a hospital bed is ?400 per day. Yes. | :48:31. | :48:33. | |
Now, if we can keep the services like meals on wheels in our | :48:34. | :48:38. | |
communities longer, then all we are doing is helping the NHS | :48:39. | :48:40. | |
and health services alleviate some of the pressures | :48:41. | :48:43. | |
that they are facing at the moment, so health and social | :48:44. | :48:45. | |
care is about working in partnership together, | :48:46. | :48:48. | |
and actually seeing how we | :48:49. | :48:50. | |
can prevent people from going into hospital and keeping them in their | :48:51. | :48:53. | |
own homes, independent, for longer, and it is not only about food. | :48:54. | :48:58. | |
People see meals on wheels... Sorry, it's just about... | :48:59. | :49:02. | |
The longer you stay that way, the better. | :49:03. | :49:07. | |
Neil, thank you very much for coming in and talking about it. | :49:08. | :49:12. | |
Now, do you get on with your neighbours? | :49:13. | :49:17. | |
For some, in areas of Oxford harmony between | :49:18. | :49:19. | |
households is in short supply, as there has been a rise in students | :49:20. | :49:22. | |
moving into private homes, and complaints about noise `nd | :49:23. | :49:24. | |
Our Oxfordshire reporter Bethan Phillips has more. | :49:25. | :49:27. | |
# Everybody needs good neighbours...# | :49:28. | :49:34. | |
Students are very good at some things. | :49:35. | :49:37. | |
But it seems they don't alw`ys make the best neighbours. | :49:38. | :49:44. | |
Two o'clock in the morning, them all running past | :49:45. | :49:52. | |
in shopping trolleys screamhng, is it a good thing? | :49:53. | :49:54. | |
And in Oxford, the tension between town and gown | :49:55. | :49:58. | |
I've been given this letter which was sent to students | :49:59. | :50:02. | |
It says the university has seen a significant rise in the | :50:03. | :50:08. | |
number of local residents r`ising extremely serious concerns `bout | :50:09. | :50:11. | |
noise and disturbance caused by students. | :50:12. | :50:15. | |
It says students that don't adhere to its conduct regulations | :50:16. | :50:18. | |
Ross Clark has lived in east Oxford all his life, | :50:19. | :50:27. | |
and says the area is changing rapidly. | :50:28. | :50:31. | |
prices have rocketed, peopld who own their own houses have | :50:32. | :50:37. | |
obviously benefited, but | :50:38. | :50:41. | |
we've had some terrible neighbours, and great neighbours. | :50:42. | :50:43. | |
You know, but when you get terrible ones, | :50:44. | :50:45. | |
But students themselves aren't so sure | :50:46. | :50:48. | |
We live a varied road, studdnts families... | :50:49. | :51:00. | |
And I think, well, from my friends and me, I think we are | :51:01. | :51:03. | |
You can communicate with them and you can | :51:04. | :51:06. | |
If I have like a party then we will be like, yeah, | :51:07. | :51:12. | |
after a certain time, let's keep it down, | :51:13. | :51:14. | |
but it's not our major thought, let's say. | :51:15. | :51:16. | |
Yeah, it's not like the first thing we think of. | :51:17. | :51:18. | |
More students are now living in private homes in Oxford, | :51:19. | :51:21. | |
and it means competition for houses is high. | :51:22. | :51:24. | |
This is what we will be seehng outside letting agents this week | :51:25. | :51:27. | |
as the student housing lists for next year are released. | :51:28. | :51:32. | |
You have people in tents, having cups of tea and a | :51:33. | :51:35. | |
singsong at night, and sometimes they have been | :51:36. | :51:39. | |
The most organised queue up first because they get | :51:40. | :51:42. | |
Oxford City Council has set a limit of 3,000 students for | :51:43. | :51:48. | |
each university living in private accommodation per year to e`se | :51:49. | :51:50. | |
The University of Oxford has managed to | :51:51. | :51:56. | |
stick to it, but Oxford Brookes has broken the threshold | :51:57. | :51:58. | |
Last year, more than 3,700 of its students rented priv`te | :51:59. | :52:02. | |
homes, rather than living in university halls. | :52:03. | :52:07. | |
It's disappointing, and Brooks are as disappointed | :52:08. | :52:09. | |
They need to build more student housing, they | :52:10. | :52:14. | |
need to house more of their students in their own accommodation, they | :52:15. | :52:17. | |
have plans coming forward for really significant numbers that will | :52:18. | :52:20. | |
Oxford Brookes says it is planning to build an extra 1,500 student | :52:21. | :52:25. | |
There is a long pipeline to respond to these issues. | :52:26. | :52:30. | |
Once you have identified the opportunity, it really takes you | :52:31. | :52:38. | |
five years to get the first students into those halls of residence. | :52:39. | :52:41. | |
With the current shortage of space in | :52:42. | :52:45. | |
there's cash to be made by | :52:46. | :52:48. | |
So how much would this be asking for, then? | :52:49. | :52:57. | |
This is about ?1,300 per calendar month. | :52:58. | :52:59. | |
But right in the city centrd, brand-new apartment, | :53:00. | :53:06. | |
nice facilities, they're willing to pay it. | :53:07. | :53:09. | |
Oxford wouldn't be Oxford without students, but it | :53:10. | :53:14. | |
seems there's still some work to do for the to find the perfect blend. | :53:15. | :53:19. | |
seems there's still some work to do for the city | :53:20. | :53:22. | |
1300 a month for a one bed flat in Oxford. | :53:23. | :53:36. | |
Well, they are, aren't they must remark but you are pleased to | :53:37. | :53:39. | |
see more students in Chichester, aren't you? | :53:40. | :53:41. | |
Well, we have a good university in Chichester but it also | :53:42. | :53:44. | |
has a hub down at Bognor Regis that is expanding with the digit`l and | :53:45. | :53:47. | |
engineering, and they are building accommodation. | :53:48. | :53:49. | |
It's a regeneration project, sometimes, when you get | :53:50. | :53:50. | |
these new university buildings and all the rest of it. Yes. | :53:51. | :53:53. | |
It has had funding from us, we are very supportive, we | :53:54. | :53:57. | |
are working on the digital offer with them, and can you know, we are | :53:58. | :54:00. | |
very pleased to see them expanding because that will help not only | :54:01. | :54:03. | |
Bognor Regis but West Sussex as well. | :54:04. | :54:05. | |
Who is paying for all this? It's the grant, isn't it? | :54:06. | :54:07. | |
They're not grants, of course, they are loans. | :54:08. | :54:11. | |
which the students have to spend on accommodation. | :54:12. | :54:13. | |
And in Southampton there has been conflict, | :54:14. | :54:14. | |
hasn't there, in private housing areas? | :54:15. | :54:16. | |
Yes, there has been a certain amount. | :54:17. | :54:17. | |
There are 40,000 students in the city | :54:18. | :54:19. | |
and of course that is quite a lot, | :54:20. | :54:21. | |
We think just under 5,000 private homes that are let out to | :54:22. | :54:28. | |
We're quite keen to get that number down, as it is... | :54:29. | :54:37. | |
You can move them into studdnt accommodation? | :54:38. | :54:39. | |
I have developers queueing tp to do that work, and I | :54:40. | :54:42. | |
think in terms of the numbers it is either in construction or just | :54:43. | :54:45. | |
constructed or been proposed to be constructed about 5,000 units of | :54:46. | :54:48. | |
Largely off the back of public development right changes, so office | :54:49. | :54:55. | |
blocks going into students accommodations because they don t | :54:56. | :54:58. | |
need amenity spaces, or car parking so much, | :54:59. | :55:00. | |
and so you can actually convert buildings that | :55:01. | :55:02. | |
wouldn't be suitable for other residential usage to student | :55:03. | :55:04. | |
accommodation, and to take a bit of pressure | :55:05. | :55:06. | |
off the family housing that | :55:07. | :55:07. | |
They go away for the holidays, I suppose, | :55:08. | :55:11. | |
I think there is a growing trend we have seen them now, | :55:12. | :55:15. | |
where people are not choosing universities far away but locally | :55:16. | :55:18. | |
where they can go and attend, and I think that will be a growing... | :55:19. | :55:24. | |
One of the growing markets where people | :55:25. | :55:33. | |
commute to university, going to get a degree. | :55:34. | :55:34. | |
Doesn't it sometimes seem like students are a cash cow? | :55:35. | :55:37. | |
You know, you pay an awful lot of money | :55:38. | :55:39. | |
now, to get a degree, for a commendation | :55:40. | :55:41. | |
Well, people are coming out huge amounts of | :55:42. | :55:44. | |
lot of them would say, well, we'll go locally. | :55:45. | :55:48. | |
That would save them some money Well... | :55:49. | :55:49. | |
The life at home is very different to what it was 20, | :55:50. | :55:53. | |
30 years ago, and so perhaps they put some | :55:54. | :55:55. | |
money into travelling when they finish, | :55:56. | :55:57. | |
but when they come out, trained with a degree, most | :55:58. | :55:59. | |
importantly, ready for work, and that's what it's about. | :56:00. | :56:01. | |
Yeah. The whole thing is evolving, | :56:02. | :56:03. | |
and vocational education and apprenticeships are important | :56:04. | :56:05. | |
Well, I think it's incredibly important and having talked | :56:06. | :56:08. | |
to quite a lot of businesses they really want to grow thdir own | :56:09. | :56:11. | |
staff, and recruiting in on apprentices | :56:12. | :56:12. | |
and training them up is | :56:13. | :56:15. | |
going to be a greater trend I think in the future. | :56:16. | :56:18. | |
Yes, we will need the specialists from | :56:19. | :56:20. | |
universities and we will nedd those talents, but I think it is luch | :56:21. | :56:23. | |
It does have an impact on council funding as well | :56:24. | :56:27. | |
because of course students `re not required to pay council tax, so we | :56:28. | :56:30. | |
have 5,000 properties on which we collect no local | :56:31. | :56:33. | |
taxation, and of course the same applies to these | :56:34. | :56:37. | |
large accommodation blocks of largely, you know, officd | :56:38. | :56:40. | |
accommodation which would h`ve paid us business rates. | :56:41. | :56:43. | |
But in general a good thing? And now are not paying as anything. | :56:44. | :56:46. | |
And if we are self funding in three years' time, with | :56:47. | :56:49. | |
business rates, we need to get this addressed by government, and I have | :56:50. | :56:52. | |
written to Mr Hammond suggesting that he needs | :56:53. | :56:54. | |
to think about that in future budgets | :56:55. | :56:56. | |
because it will have a big impact on otr city. | :56:57. | :56:58. | |
Can we talk some more about the Autumn Statement? | :56:59. | :57:00. | |
But first our regular round-up of the political | :57:01. | :57:04. | |
week in the south in 60 Seconds, | :57:05. | :57:06. | |
and it's all about the need for speed. | :57:07. | :57:14. | |
The government's being urged to speed up the creation of | :57:15. | :57:16. | |
an east - west rail link from Oxford to Cambridge. | :57:17. | :57:19. | |
It was first suggested in the 1990s. | :57:20. | :57:21. | |
Scientists at Harwell have developed a new, faster x-r`y beam | :57:22. | :57:24. | |
which will improve research into disease. | :57:25. | :57:28. | |
The slow crawl of traffic into Oxford could be | :57:29. | :57:31. | |
relieved by taxing companies who provide car parking spaces. | :57:32. | :57:34. | |
The county council says thex'd use the cash | :57:35. | :57:37. | |
This would be used for improving the infrastructure, | :57:38. | :57:46. | |
better remote park and rides, additional bus lanes. | :57:47. | :57:48. | |
Residents of a West Dorset village revolutionised their broadb`nd by | :57:49. | :57:55. | |
installing a 15 mile microw`ve link which connects to discrete receivers | :57:56. | :57:58. | |
People can surf the Internet in the village now as | :57:59. | :58:01. | |
And plans to slow the water flow through New Forest streams to create | :58:02. | :58:09. | |
new wetland have been halted, planners ruled | :58:10. | :58:11. | |
against one and a half million pound band to fill | :58:12. | :58:13. | |
in Lattimore Brooke after rdsidents' objections. | :58:14. | :58:16. | |
Now, we're not going to slow down because we're | :58:17. | :58:18. | |
running out of time on | :58:19. | :58:19. | |
For the Autumn Statement, Louise, the one thing | :58:20. | :58:24. | |
Well, I'd like to see some transition funding for our | :58:25. | :58:27. | |
schools as well, and as you know we've had | :58:28. | :58:30. | |
quite a big campaign, we | :58:31. | :58:31. | |
are supporting the schools. Are you going to get it? | :58:32. | :58:34. | |
The funding... I'm not sure, | :58:35. | :58:37. | |
because I think it is a difficult time for Philip H`mmond. | :58:38. | :58:40. | |
If it's more for West Sussex and thus | :58:41. | :58:46. | |
They have had serious underfunding for decades. | :58:47. | :58:53. | |
And it is a cumulative effect which is really | :58:54. | :58:55. | |
For us, we want to give children the best start in life. | :58:56. | :58:59. | |
That means, you know, good parenting, good home life btt also | :59:00. | :59:03. | |
And they going to get the extra money or are | :59:04. | :59:10. | |
Well, it's a government 's decisions, so we're | :59:11. | :59:13. | |
not in the position to stop it but... | :59:14. | :59:15. | |
But they would take it from you? | :59:16. | :59:18. | |
We are arguing strongly that the students in Southalpton | :59:19. | :59:20. | |
schools, there is a reason why they get less support and we would argue | :59:21. | :59:24. | |
very strongly that they continue to get it. | :59:25. | :59:26. | |
I would like to hear, pleasd Mr Chancellor can we have bdtter | :59:27. | :59:28. | |
Because that will save the whole British economy money because we can | :59:29. | :59:33. | |
which will be saved through the health budget. Right. | :59:34. | :59:36. | |
Let's hope he's watching, if not, Theresa May. | :59:37. | :59:38. | |
There's an idea! In Maidenhdad, please by Minister... Just have a | :59:39. | :59:44. | |
word with the Chancellor. That's the Sunday politics in the south. Thank | :59:45. | :59:50. | |
you to my guests, Louise Goldsmith from West Sussex and Simon lets from | :59:51. | :59:53. | |
Southampton. You can keep up on my blog, there is the address but | :59:54. | :59:57. | |
never happened and will not happen in four years. It is subject we | :59:58. | :00:00. | |
should spend more time on. Back to you. | :00:01. | :00:09. | |
What will the Chancellor have to say in his first big economic statement? | :00:10. | :00:13. | |
What impact will the forecasters say Brexit will have on the economy | :00:14. | :00:16. | |
And who will face the Front National's Marine Le Pen in | :00:17. | :00:19. | |
Well, the Shadow Chancellor and the Chancellor have both been | :00:20. | :00:34. | |
touring the television studios this morning. | :00:35. | :00:35. | |
Let's be clear, a lot of this is going to be gimmicks and press | :00:36. | :00:41. | |
As I've said, in the pipeline, we've only | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
seen one in five delivered to construction, that's all. | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
So a lot of this will be a repeat of what | :00:49. | :00:51. | |
I'm not going to reveal what I'm going to say on | :00:52. | :00:54. | |
We don't have unlimited capacity, as one might | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
imagine from listening to John McDonnell, to borrow | :01:00. | :01:02. | |
hundreds of billions of pounds more for discretionary spending. | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
That simply doesn't exist if we're going to | :01:08. | :01:10. | |
retain this country's hard-won credibility in the financial markets | :01:11. | :01:13. | |
if we are going to remain an attractive place for business to | :01:14. | :01:17. | |
We didn't learn very much, Helen, but the papers were briefed this | :01:18. | :01:31. | |
morning that there will be another ?1.3 billion for roads and things | :01:32. | :01:38. | |
like that. ?1.3 billion is 0.08 of our GDP. Not exactly an | :01:39. | :01:44. | |
infrastructure investment programme, is it? Yellow like I have to say, it | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
was not thrilling to read the details. -- I have to say... It is | :01:49. | :01:57. | |
the first big financial statement that is going to come and I think | :01:58. | :02:01. | |
there will be a big row about the OBE are forecast because they cannot | :02:02. | :02:05. | |
set out a range, they have to commit to one forecast. Everything they do | :02:06. | :02:10. | |
is incredibly political. DOB are is on a hiding to nothing. -- DOB are | :02:11. | :02:19. | |
-- the Office for Budget Responsibility. I don't know how | :02:20. | :02:27. | |
they will square the circle. It is an interesting week. It is all about | :02:28. | :02:31. | |
the economy and public finances and we don't have to talk about Brexit | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
until next Sunday, but no, I have a terrible feeling that by the end of | :02:36. | :02:46. | |
Wednesday afternoon we will be screaming and shouting about how | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
Brexit is going to be for the economy. Just imagine the Treasury | :02:50. | :02:52. | |
comes out with his forecast that it is going to collapse growth and | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
collapsed Treasury takings, people will be apoplectic. Until now, the | :02:58. | :03:04. | |
economy has continued to grow strongly. Pretty well. They cannot | :03:05. | :03:10. | |
say, we have noticed it slowing down and that will continue. They have to | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
take a punt if they think it will slow down. It affects the | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
Chancellor's figures, because the more they say it is slowing down, | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
and I have seen that it will go from 2% down to 1.4%, the more the | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
Chancellor's deficit rises even without any more tax cuts and | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
spending. Absolutely. I think Tom is right. What we will see this week is | :03:33. | :03:36. | |
a continuation of the debate we have been having all along. If the Office | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
for Budget Responsibility has negative and gloomy predictions | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
there will be howls of agony, and rightly howls of frustration from | :03:46. | :03:53. | |
Brexiteers who will say that all the dire predictions from before the | :03:54. | :03:56. | |
referendum have not come to pass and now you are talking things down in a | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
way that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. The money for roads, you | :04:01. | :04:07. | |
were dismissive about it, but every little helps. I don't dismiss it, I | :04:08. | :04:14. | |
say it doesn't amount to a fiscal stimulus in macro economic terms. | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
I'm sure if you are on that road, it will be useful. They are going to | :04:19. | :04:27. | |
build a super highway between Oxford and Cambridge. I would like to see | :04:28. | :04:37. | |
them go out to Japan and learn how to fill a hole in two days. I would | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
suggest the road from Oxford to Cambridge is not for the just | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
managing classes, even though it goes through Milton Keynes, and that | :04:46. | :04:54. | |
simply freezing due freezing fuel duty isn't going to hack it, either. | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
These just about managing people are potentially quite a big band. With | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
income tax rises, it means anything you do to help them is incredibly | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
expensive. The universal credit freeze is an interesting example of | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
that. Philip Hammond sounded ambivalent about it after | :05:13. | :05:19. | |
pre-briefings that it might not the cuts might not go ahead. There are | :05:20. | :05:25. | |
people who are in work but because they are low paid don't have the | :05:26. | :05:31. | |
number of hours, they require welfare benefits to top up their | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
pay, and these welfare benefits as it stands, are frozen until 202 , | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
and yet inflation is now starting to rise. That's a problem for the just | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
managing people. Correct. It is worse than that, because we are | :05:46. | :05:54. | |
talking about April 2017 when tax credits become universal credits, so | :05:55. | :06:00. | |
the squeeze will be greater. We will get a small highway between a couple | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
of university towns, but if he has any money left to spend at all, it | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
will be on some pretty seismic jazzman for the just about managing | :06:09. | :06:15. | |
people. I am so glad we're not calling them Jams on this programme, | :06:16. | :06:24. | |
because it is a patronising tone. What the Chancellor and Shadow | :06:25. | :06:31. | |
Chancellor did not confront is that Mr Trump's election is a watershed | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
in terms of being able to borrow cheaply. The Federal Reserve is | :06:37. | :06:39. | |
about to start raising rates. The days of cheap borrowing for | :06:40. | :06:43. | |
governments could be coming to an end. You can feel a bit sorry for | :06:44. | :06:47. | |
labour here because after having had six years of being told that we need | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
a surplus and these things are important, we can't deny the | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
deficit, we have switched now and the first thing that Philip Hammond | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
did was to scrap George Osborne s borrowing targets. He has given | :07:03. | :07:05. | |
himself more wriggle room than George Osborne had. He has and it | :07:06. | :07:11. | |
will cost them more. Debt servicing will now rise as a cost. Where is | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
the next political earthquake going to happen? | :07:17. | :07:23. | |
It could be Italy, or the French elections coming up next spring | :07:24. | :07:29. | |
Now, who will face the Front National's Marine Le Pen in next | :07:30. | :07:32. | |
year's French Presidential elections? | :07:33. | :07:33. | |
Well, France's centre-right part, Les Republicans, | :07:34. | :07:35. | |
are selecting their candidate in the first round of | :07:36. | :07:37. | |
Well, France's centre-right part, Les Republicans, | :07:38. | :07:39. | |
are selecting their candidate in the first round of | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
Let's speak to our correspondent in Paris, Hugh Schofield. | :07:44. | :07:47. | |
Welcome to the programme. Three main candidates, the former -- two former | :07:48. | :08:00. | |
prime ministers and Nicolas Sarkozy, the former president. It is not | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
clear who the front runner is. Robbins it is quite an exciting | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
race, because four weeks it did look as if it was going to be Juppe. It | :08:09. | :08:22. | |
is a two round race. Two go through and the idea is that they rally all | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
the support together. It looked like the first round would be dominated | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
by Juppe and Nicolas Sarkozy, and there was a clear binary combination | :08:32. | :08:37. | |
there, because Sarkozy was looking for squeamish far right voters. In | :08:38. | :08:42. | |
other words, veering clearly to the right and far right on immigration | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
and identity issues. And Juppe is the opposite, saying we had to | :08:48. | :08:51. | |
appeal to the centre. That was what it looked like. But the third | :08:52. | :08:57. | |
candidate has made this really quite staggering surge in the last few | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
days. There was a debate on Thursday and he was deemed to have won it on | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
television. He is coming up strongly, and I wouldn't be at all | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
surprised to see him go through which would be interesting from a | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
British perspective, because if the becomes president, he will be the | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
first president with a British wife. His wife Penelope is Welsh. | :09:21. | :09:28. | |
We will have to leave it there. I would suggest that the reason it is | :09:29. | :09:31. | |
fascinating is that whoever wins this primary for the centre-right | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
party is likely to be the next president, and who the next | :09:36. | :09:40. | |
president is will be very important for Britain in these Brexit | :09:41. | :09:42. | |
negotiations. Nothing will really happen until it is determined. Then | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
after the German elections in October. I would add one more | :09:47. | :09:52. | |
constituent part. The most important thing about the race is who can stop | :09:53. | :10:00. | |
Marine Le Pen. Marine Le Pen will almost be one of the ones in the | :10:01. | :10:09. | |
run-off. The Socialists don't expect much. Francois Hollande is done | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
There is too much of a cliff to climb. Which one of these three | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
centre-right candidates can stop Marine Le Pen? We have had Brexit | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
and Trump, but we could also have Marine Le Pen. If it is Sarkozy it | :10:25. | :10:33. | |
is the battle of the right. In some areas, he has moved to the right of | :10:34. | :10:40. | |
marine Le Pen. I suppose he feels he has do in order to take the wind out | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
of our sails. You wonder if she could succeed later on if she does | :10:45. | :10:47. | |
not this time. Talking to French analysts last night, there was | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
suggesting that she could not do it this time but could win the next | :10:52. | :10:54. | |
time. All the events in France over the last year seemed to provide the | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
most propitious circumstances for her to do well, and particularly if | :10:59. | :11:06. | |
you throw in Trump and Brexit. Suppose it is Mr Sarkozy, and he | :11:07. | :11:09. | |
goes through and wins the Republican nomination, and he and Marine Le Pen | :11:10. | :11:13. | |
go through to the second round, that would mean, think about it, is that | :11:14. | :11:21. | |
a lot of French socialist voters and those on the father left would have | :11:22. | :11:28. | |
to grit their teeth and vote for Nicolas Sarkozy. They might not do | :11:29. | :11:34. | |
it. We might see what we saw in America, where lots of potential | :11:35. | :11:45. | |
Clinton voters did not turn out You got politicians like Melanchon on | :11:46. | :11:48. | |
the far left saying there are foreign workers taking bread out of | :11:49. | :11:54. | |
French workers' mounts. We sometimes forget, because we tend to emphasise | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
the National of the National front, but actually, there are economic | :11:59. | :12:13. | |
policy is quite Bennite. Sarkozy is the Hillary Clinton of the French | :12:14. | :12:22. | |
elections. He is Mr establishment. Juppe and the other third candidate | :12:23. | :12:29. | |
are the same. You have to re-establish candidates running | :12:30. | :12:31. | |
against an antiestablishment candidate. There are populist | :12:32. | :12:35. | |
economic policies from the National front. The other three want to raise | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
the retirement age and cut back on the 35 hour week, which are not | :12:41. | :12:49. | |
classic electoral appeals. Mr Juppe used to be the Mayor of Bordeaux. | :12:50. | :12:52. | |
And we are the biggest importers of claret, so that could have an | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
effect. In 2002, it was Jack Shear against John Marine Le Pen, and the | :12:58. | :13:03. | |
socialist campaign slogan was, vote for the Crook, not the fascist. We | :13:04. | :13:11. | |
will see what they come up with this time. | :13:12. | :13:13. | |
The Daily Politics is back at noon tomorrow on BBC Two, | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
where on Wednesday I will have full coverage of the Chancellor's Autumn | :13:19. | :13:24. | |
But remember, if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:25. | :13:33. |