Browse content similar to 15/01/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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And in Wales: we will have the use of Alex Salmond, and Carwyn Jones | :01:34. | :01:44. | |
:01:44. | :01:44. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1685 seconds | :01:44. | :29:50. | |
tells us independence is not an Good afternoon. Welcome for the | :29:50. | :29:53. | |
first time to Sunday Politics Wales. Coming up: It's another election | :29:53. | :29:59. | |
year. We will take a look at the key test for parties in May. I will | :29:59. | :30:03. | |
be joined today by Labour's Nia Griffith, and the conservative Nick | :30:03. | :30:07. | |
Ramsay. First, the debate surrounding the future of Scotland | :30:08. | :30:12. | |
has dominated the political agenda over the last week. But any move | :30:12. | :30:16. | |
from its current relationship with the UK will be felled here in Wales. | :30:16. | :30:23. | |
I have been speaking to the First Minister Carwyn Jones, and began by | :30:23. | :30:27. | |
asking him who should be in charge of the decision, the Scottish or UK | :30:27. | :30:32. | |
government? This matter should be decided by the Scottish people. | :30:32. | :30:36. | |
Legally the power lies with the UK government, but politically it is | :30:36. | :30:43. | |
wise for the referendum to be called, and by the Scottish | :30:43. | :30:47. | |
government. That is then a matter for the people of Scotland. I hope | :30:47. | :30:53. | |
that Scotland remains within the UK. Why? Because it is useful to have | :30:53. | :31:00. | |
four nations within the UK. We all act as counterbalances, and I think | :31:00. | :31:10. | |
:31:10. | :31:18. | ||
the UK would be worse off without The view seems to be expressed that | :31:18. | :31:22. | |
if we do anything different in Wales, we are on the road to | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
independence. That is a dangerous argument, because it is saying that | :31:26. | :31:30. | |
devolution can never work. The people of Wales have faulted twice | :31:30. | :31:34. | |
for devolution. As someone elected by the people of Wales, I have a | :31:35. | :31:38. | |
mandate to take forward a programme for government in the way the | :31:38. | :31:48. | |
:31:48. | :31:49. | ||
Secretary of State does not. But saying on the one hand, you can do | :31:49. | :31:53. | |
what you want in Wales, but if you do you must be some kind of | :31:53. | :31:57. | |
separatist, is not a why his argument. You say you are eager to | :31:57. | :32:02. | |
stand up for the interests of the people of Wales. You were very | :32:02. | :32:10. | |
critical of David Cameron after the last summit, saying you are letting | :32:10. | :32:14. | |
Wilstone by not having them at the top team of UK politics. If you do | :32:14. | :32:19. | |
not like what he is giving you, you can walk a way. I argument is that | :32:19. | :32:23. | |
their NAV -- has to be a government of a different colour in London. | :32:23. | :32:28. | |
You do not say just walk away from the whole thing. I believe in the | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
unity of the UK, but I have had my disagreements with the current UK | :32:33. | :32:39. | |
government. It is important that we ensure that devolution works, it is | :32:39. | :32:47. | |
important that there is not a huge amount of interference from UK | :32:47. | :32:51. | |
government departments, and on a practical level we do get co- | :32:51. | :32:57. | |
operation, particularly from bodies like U K t I, which have been | :32:57. | :33:03. | |
helpful in helping us get investment in Wales. If there was a | :33:03. | :33:06. | |
"yes" vote for independence in Scotland, with that fundamentally | :33:06. | :33:09. | |
change the relationship between Wales and the rest of the United to | :33:09. | :33:16. | |
Kingdom? It would change the relationships between all parts of | :33:16. | :33:26. | |
the United Kingdom. There would be a United Kingdom, of course, left. | :33:26. | :33:30. | |
But there would have to be thought given as to what the constitution | :33:30. | :33:36. | |
would look like, and the nature of representation within the UK. | :33:36. | :33:40. | |
would you want to see us Wales's relationship was London? We would | :33:40. | :33:43. | |
want to make sure that we had a sufficiently strong voice within | :33:43. | :33:52. | |
the UK. We could not carry on with 550 MPs, with 40 from Wales and | :33:52. | :33:55. | |
Northern Ireland. Ford would have to be given to how to ensure there | :33:55. | :34:05. | |
:34:05. | :34:07. | ||
was more of a balance. -- thought would have to be given. I do not | :34:07. | :34:11. | |
accept that if Scotland leads that it is inevitable that other parts | :34:11. | :34:18. | |
would want to leave, as well. there was a "yes" vote, with that | :34:18. | :34:23. | |
call for further calls for devolution, even though it is not | :34:23. | :34:27. | |
independent? Things would change, but not to the extent of Wales | :34:27. | :34:32. | |
becoming independent. There would have to be a better definition of | :34:32. | :34:39. | |
what was a power for the UK's. -- for the UK. These are all things | :34:39. | :34:45. | |
that would come into play. should do not want? Let us not | :34:45. | :34:48. | |
pretend it would be a good thing for Wales to become independent, it | :34:48. | :34:53. | |
would not. We know it is not in her interests financially. Being part | :34:54. | :34:59. | |
of the UK gives us a stronger voice on the world stage, and money is | :34:59. | :35:02. | |
transferred from other parts of the UK into Wales. Let us not pretend | :35:02. | :35:09. | |
it would be somehow easy for Wales to go the same way as Scotland. But | :35:09. | :35:13. | |
it seems to me from the opinion polls and Scotland, that the | :35:13. | :35:21. | |
likelihood would be a "no" vote. What worries me is the UK | :35:21. | :35:24. | |
government must be extra ordinarily careful in not giving the | :35:24. | :35:28. | |
impression it is trying to interfere in the timing and the | :35:28. | :35:32. | |
question of the Scottish referendum. It is a matter for the people of | :35:32. | :35:35. | |
Scotland. Thank you very much. | :35:35. | :35:39. | |
Where is the UK going? Let us get to the heart of the question with | :35:39. | :35:45. | |
Nia Griffith and Nick Ramsay. Is it only a matter of time before we see | :35:45. | :35:49. | |
a break-up of the new? There are different circumstances in | :35:49. | :35:55. | |
different countries. If I were in Scotland, I would have to ask what | :35:55. | :35:58. | |
would happen to my savings and the Property iPhone, what would happen | :35:58. | :36:02. | |
to my business? There are some serious questions that people in | :36:02. | :36:08. | |
Scotland will be asking. -- property that I your own. They need | :36:08. | :36:13. | |
to have discussion like this, the same way we have the convention in | :36:13. | :36:19. | |
Wales before the referendum. There has been a lot of debate about | :36:19. | :36:23. | |
whether David Cameron has been interfering in this. If Westminster | :36:23. | :36:25. | |
politicians were telling politicians and Cardiff Bay, you | :36:25. | :36:31. | |
would be the first to complain. Maybe not the first, but I am a | :36:31. | :36:35. | |
great supporter of the United Kingdom. I think all the | :36:35. | :36:40. | |
constituent parts are stronger together than we are a part. As the | :36:40. | :36:42. | |
First Minister said, it is a matter for Scotland, but there would be | :36:42. | :36:47. | |
such a bearing on the other parts of the UK that if David Cameron and | :36:47. | :36:50. | |
did not take a position, and say that he wanted to get this issue | :36:50. | :36:55. | |
sorted out, so the market knows where tears, and businesses know | :36:55. | :37:00. | |
where they are, that would be strained. But surely the timing and | :37:00. | :37:04. | |
the question being asked as a matter for Scottish people. It is a | :37:04. | :37:08. | |
matter for Scotland ultimately where it wants to be. Gifted as a | :37:08. | :37:11. | |
majority in Scotland for independence, it is up to them to | :37:11. | :37:16. | |
decide that. -- if there is a majority in Scotland. There is also | :37:16. | :37:20. | |
a duty on the UK government to make sure that in the meantime, before | :37:20. | :37:24. | |
any referendum is held, that there is stability, and that the decision | :37:24. | :37:28. | |
is put to the people. David Cameron says he believes the referendum | :37:28. | :37:36. | |
should be held sooner than later. If Scotland decided to go it alone, | :37:36. | :37:40. | |
it would be very hard for Labour to force his way back into government | :37:40. | :37:44. | |
through the other three that were left. Do you see that Labour's hand | :37:44. | :37:48. | |
could be forced on the issue of independence, bearing in mind that | :37:48. | :37:52. | |
it would not want to be dictated to by a centre-right government from | :37:52. | :37:56. | |
West minster? In the past we have had a Labour majority of MPs in | :37:56. | :38:06. | |
:38:06. | :38:07. | ||
England alone, so that argument can be put to one side. As far as I am | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
concerned, the UK by its way above its weight on the international | :38:11. | :38:21. | |
stage, and I am proud to be part of that. The influence we have had in | :38:21. | :38:25. | |
the G8 and G20, those sorts of platforms, those are very important, | :38:25. | :38:30. | |
and I see very much that we want to work together as a United Kingdom. | :38:30. | :38:33. | |
As far as Scotland are concerned, people want to discuss the issues, | :38:33. | :38:40. | |
of course, and they may choose to be independent, but we see | :38:40. | :38:45. | |
ourselves stronger in the economic climate at the moment, when we are | :38:45. | :38:49. | |
together, rather than apart. There are greater powers that could come | :38:49. | :38:53. | |
to Wales and the future, fiscal powers. Many of those government | :38:53. | :39:00. | |
are not to want. The commission are looking at it at the moment, and | :39:00. | :39:03. | |
when they come back to us to see whether that is the sort of way | :39:03. | :39:07. | |
they want to go, that is when we decide. What we need to do is get | :39:07. | :39:10. | |
the right decisions made up the right level. Something practical to | :39:10. | :39:15. | |
deal with -- some things are practical to deal with in Cardiff, | :39:15. | :39:22. | |
and some in Brussels. The Welsh Conservatives have | :39:22. | :39:26. | |
embraced devolution over the past few years, bearing in mind some | :39:26. | :39:31. | |
people say it is a process, not an event. What would you like to see | :39:31. | :39:40. | |
as being the next step on the devolution road in Wales? It was | :39:40. | :39:43. | |
not us who came up with that saying, but you're right, we believe in | :39:43. | :39:47. | |
accepting things as they are, and doing with the tools we have what | :39:47. | :39:56. | |
we can to improve life. Whether it is going to be independence, devo | :39:56. | :39:59. | |
max, or whether they go for some form of development along the | :39:59. | :40:09. | |
devolution process, they are moving ahead. Are we behind them? No, the | :40:09. | :40:16. | |
same person spoke about the symmetrical devolution, and Wales | :40:17. | :40:21. | |
has a different situation and Scotland. I am not hearing any | :40:21. | :40:24. | |
calls from anyone, politicians included, that the situation should | :40:24. | :40:32. | |
be different with in Wales. We are very different country to Scotland, | :40:32. | :40:39. | |
and it has a lot of interchange across the border. I think our | :40:39. | :40:45. | |
relationship is right at the more money. Thank you very much. | :40:45. | :40:50. | |
right at the moment. Wills's politicians are turning | :40:50. | :40:54. | |
their minds to the elections in May. They will decide who is running | :40:54. | :41:04. | |
:41:04. | :41:05. | ||
public money for the next full years. -- four years. They will | :41:05. | :41:08. | |
decide who will be running vital public services for the next four | :41:08. | :41:13. | |
years cold --. But they will also be a key test of how the main | :41:13. | :41:23. | |
:41:23. | :41:25. | ||
parties are faring in the political Labour lost six councils, and | :41:26. | :41:30. | |
Labour kept his majority in two. It regained its control in Bridgend, | :41:30. | :41:35. | |
with help from independence. I lost a seat in 2008. They were very | :41:35. | :41:40. | |
difficult elections for us. We're now in a very much better place for | :41:40. | :41:47. | |
the elections. We are the only party who are on the front foot. | :41:47. | :41:50. | |
Membership numbers are rising, organisation is very good, and I am | :41:50. | :41:59. | |
feeling positive. Plaid Cymru felt pain in his -- its heartland four | :41:59. | :42:09. | |
:42:09. | :42:10. | ||
years ago. As the largest group in Carmarthenshire, it is hoping to be | :42:10. | :42:15. | |
at the helm from a. Some of the most important services, in terms | :42:15. | :42:19. | |
of the standard of life for people in Wales, are decided by local | :42:19. | :42:23. | |
authorities. A very important election, and I hope the people of | :42:23. | :42:27. | |
Wales come to vote. I hope we can persuade them that Plaid Cymru is | :42:27. | :42:37. | |
:42:37. | :42:40. | ||
offering them an option they have not looked at in the past. | :42:40. | :42:43. | |
Conservative easily held Monmouth Show, and David Cameron went there | :42:44. | :42:49. | |
to celebrate. I am quite optimistic. The feedback | :42:49. | :42:53. | |
we are getting on the doors across the whole of Wales is actually | :42:53. | :43:01. | |
pretty good. They want efficient, good quality public services, and | :43:01. | :43:06. | |
they do not want to see hikes in the council tax, and that is why | :43:06. | :43:12. | |
the main policy we have is to advocate the freezing of council to | :43:12. | :43:19. | |
axe. All parties are hoping to do this, including the Liberal | :43:19. | :43:29. | |
:43:29. | :43:33. | ||
Democrats. Across the councils, we have a good story to tell people. | :43:33. | :43:36. | |
That is why I am quite hopeful that once the story is told to people | :43:36. | :43:40. | |
they will see the value of keeping Liberal Democrats in control. What | :43:40. | :43:45. | |
we're trying to do is consolidate what we have got. Given where we | :43:45. | :43:49. | |
are, that will be a major achievement. If we do better than | :43:49. | :43:53. | |
that I would be very happy indeed. One part of Wales is not likely to | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
go to the polls this spring. Anglesey's local election is | :43:57. | :44:03. | |
expected to be postponed by one year by ministers, as the review of | :44:03. | :44:13. | |
:44:13. | :44:19. | ||
the electoral boundaries on the Elections are being fought a very | :44:19. | :44:24. | |
different context this time. Obviously what is happening at the | :44:24. | :44:32. | |
moment is, whilst the Welsh government is trying to protect | :44:32. | :44:41. | |
finances, what is coming from the UK government is prices rising and | :44:41. | :44:46. | |
inflation. This is a very difficult context. We welcome the opportunity | :44:46. | :44:49. | |
to get out and see what people are thinking, but it is difficult | :44:49. | :44:54. | |
because what people will be doing is saying, we are very concerned | :44:54. | :44:57. | |
about the local services, we are very concerned about how they're | :44:57. | :45:01. | |
going to be delivered, and it will not be easy for any council to | :45:01. | :45:06. | |
deliver over the next four years. We're there for the fight, and we | :45:06. | :45:10. | |
can see that people are coming back to us, and saying they're going to | :45:10. | :45:15. | |
be voting Labour. How difficult will it be to fight a positive | :45:15. | :45:19. | |
local campaign, bearing in mind the pressures that council's face at | :45:19. | :45:26. | |
the moment? Going back to what was said a moment ago about the cuts in | :45:26. | :45:32. | |
Wales. Even key numbers in the Labour Party, like Alastair Darling, | :45:32. | :45:39. | |
Are saying cuts were inevitable. It falls on all parties to fight the | :45:39. | :45:43. | |
campaign. In terms of public finances, local authorities deliver | :45:43. | :45:48. | |
a huge range of services, and we have to argue for things like a | :45:48. | :45:57. | |
freeze on council tax, for people These elections are sometimes a | :45:57. | :46:01. | |
reflection on how the parties are doing centrally and nationally. Ed | :46:01. | :46:05. | |
Miliband is starting on his bigger relaunch. If we are reading the | :46:05. | :46:09. | |
papers today, he has a negative rating among his own party. Do you | :46:09. | :46:14. | |
think that will be a factor in the elections? It is always difficult | :46:14. | :46:17. | |
when you are leader of the opposition. But he has led the | :46:17. | :46:22. | |
debate on crony capitalism. But his own people turn against. He has led | :46:22. | :46:26. | |
this debate, and we see David Cameron and trying to adopt the | :46:26. | :46:29. | |
sort of strategies, trying to tackle things like excessive | :46:29. | :46:34. | |
salaries at the top. When you're an opposition, if you have good ideas, | :46:34. | :46:40. | |
they are often stolen. Cutting the budgets, will that reflect on your | :46:40. | :46:45. | |
party? No, I think people are aware that we are in a difficult | :46:45. | :46:49. | |
financial situation, and these cuts are inevitable. Labour has said | :46:49. | :46:53. | |
that themselves. David Cameron was speaking more about the need to | :46:53. | :46:58. | |
deal with some of the inequities in the citizens before if Ed Miliband | :46:59. | :47:04. | |
was. Each week will have a look back at | :47:04. | :47:12. | |
the Welsh political week. Here is the week in 62nd. | :47:12. | :47:18. | |
-- 60 seconds. Carwyn Jones accused the UK | :47:18. | :47:21. | |
government of buying off the Secretary of State for Wales for a | :47:21. | :47:25. | |
high-speed rail line. He questioned the decision to spend money on a | :47:25. | :47:32. | |
tunnel designed to limit effect on the landscape in a Buckinghamshire | :47:32. | :47:36. | |
constituency. Adam Price backed Leanne Wood for the Plaid Cymru | :47:36. | :47:46. | |
leadership. Another contender launched a scathing attack on their | :47:46. | :47:51. | |
election strategy. Leslie Griffiths said women in | :47:51. | :47:54. | |
Wales who need faulty breast implants removed will be offered | :47:55. | :47:59. | |
and plants -- replacements on the NHS, even if the original operation | :47:59. | :48:03. | |
was carried out privately. And battle-lines were drawn over | :48:03. | :48:06. | |
the proposal to reorganise parliamentary constituency | :48:06. | :48:16. | |
:48:16. | :48:21. | ||
boundaries, resulting in Wales That was the week and 60 seconds. | :48:21. | :48:29. | |
Nia Griffith, be used to have the men I Straits, what has happened to | :48:29. | :48:38. | |
the great country? -- Menai. Sadly, their numbers have been reduced, | :48:38. | :48:43. | |
and that is something we do not want to say, but it was a difficult | :48:43. | :48:45. | |
job to draw up the boundaries, and they have come up with something | :48:45. | :48:51. | |
that is a reasonable attempt. There would be a lot of changes suggested | :48:51. | :48:55. | |
that local level, but when you look at the parameters within they had | :48:55. | :49:05. | |
to work, you have to say that they have made a good first try. Do you | :49:05. | :49:08. | |
wear a places with no historical link are being put together? | :49:08. | :49:13. | |
Boundary Commission have done a good job, that is recognised. The | :49:13. | :49:17. | |
reduction from 40 to 30 MPs is a good thing. The equalisation of the | :49:17. | :49:26. | |
number of electors in each seat is a good thing as well. For 3 million | :49:26. | :49:29. |