15/01/2012 Sunday Politics Wales


15/01/2012

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And in Wales: we will have the use of Alex Salmond, and Carwyn Jones

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Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1685 seconds

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tells us independence is not an Good afternoon. Welcome for the

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first time to Sunday Politics Wales. Coming up: It's another election

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year. We will take a look at the key test for parties in May. I will

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be joined today by Labour's Nia Griffith, and the conservative Nick

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Ramsay. First, the debate surrounding the future of Scotland

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has dominated the political agenda over the last week. But any move

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from its current relationship with the UK will be felled here in Wales.

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I have been speaking to the First Minister Carwyn Jones, and began by

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asking him who should be in charge of the decision, the Scottish or UK

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government? This matter should be decided by the Scottish people.

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Legally the power lies with the UK government, but politically it is

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wise for the referendum to be called, and by the Scottish

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government. That is then a matter for the people of Scotland. I hope

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that Scotland remains within the UK. Why? Because it is useful to have

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four nations within the UK. We all act as counterbalances, and I think

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the UK would be worse off without The view seems to be expressed that

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if we do anything different in Wales, we are on the road to

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independence. That is a dangerous argument, because it is saying that

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devolution can never work. The people of Wales have faulted twice

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for devolution. As someone elected by the people of Wales, I have a

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mandate to take forward a programme for government in the way the

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Secretary of State does not. But saying on the one hand, you can do

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what you want in Wales, but if you do you must be some kind of

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separatist, is not a why his argument. You say you are eager to

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stand up for the interests of the people of Wales. You were very

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critical of David Cameron after the last summit, saying you are letting

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Wilstone by not having them at the top team of UK politics. If you do

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not like what he is giving you, you can walk a way. I argument is that

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their NAV -- has to be a government of a different colour in London.

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You do not say just walk away from the whole thing. I believe in the

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unity of the UK, but I have had my disagreements with the current UK

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government. It is important that we ensure that devolution works, it is

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important that there is not a huge amount of interference from UK

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government departments, and on a practical level we do get co-

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operation, particularly from bodies like U K t I, which have been

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helpful in helping us get investment in Wales. If there was a

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"yes" vote for independence in Scotland, with that fundamentally

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change the relationship between Wales and the rest of the United to

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Kingdom? It would change the relationships between all parts of

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the United Kingdom. There would be a United Kingdom, of course, left.

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But there would have to be thought given as to what the constitution

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would look like, and the nature of representation within the UK.

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would you want to see us Wales's relationship was London? We would

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want to make sure that we had a sufficiently strong voice within

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the UK. We could not carry on with 550 MPs, with 40 from Wales and

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Northern Ireland. Ford would have to be given to how to ensure there

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was more of a balance. -- thought would have to be given. I do not

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accept that if Scotland leads that it is inevitable that other parts

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would want to leave, as well. there was a "yes" vote, with that

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call for further calls for devolution, even though it is not

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independent? Things would change, but not to the extent of Wales

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becoming independent. There would have to be a better definition of

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what was a power for the UK's. -- for the UK. These are all things

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that would come into play. should do not want? Let us not

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pretend it would be a good thing for Wales to become independent, it

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would not. We know it is not in her interests financially. Being part

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of the UK gives us a stronger voice on the world stage, and money is

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transferred from other parts of the UK into Wales. Let us not pretend

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it would be somehow easy for Wales to go the same way as Scotland. But

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it seems to me from the opinion polls and Scotland, that the

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likelihood would be a "no" vote. What worries me is the UK

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government must be extra ordinarily careful in not giving the

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impression it is trying to interfere in the timing and the

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question of the Scottish referendum. It is a matter for the people of

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Scotland. Thank you very much.

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Where is the UK going? Let us get to the heart of the question with

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Nia Griffith and Nick Ramsay. Is it only a matter of time before we see

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a break-up of the new? There are different circumstances in

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different countries. If I were in Scotland, I would have to ask what

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would happen to my savings and the Property iPhone, what would happen

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to my business? There are some serious questions that people in

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Scotland will be asking. -- property that I your own. They need

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to have discussion like this, the same way we have the convention in

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Wales before the referendum. There has been a lot of debate about

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whether David Cameron has been interfering in this. If Westminster

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politicians were telling politicians and Cardiff Bay, you

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would be the first to complain. Maybe not the first, but I am a

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great supporter of the United Kingdom. I think all the

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constituent parts are stronger together than we are a part. As the

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First Minister said, it is a matter for Scotland, but there would be

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such a bearing on the other parts of the UK that if David Cameron and

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did not take a position, and say that he wanted to get this issue

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sorted out, so the market knows where tears, and businesses know

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where they are, that would be strained. But surely the timing and

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the question being asked as a matter for Scottish people. It is a

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matter for Scotland ultimately where it wants to be. Gifted as a

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majority in Scotland for independence, it is up to them to

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decide that. -- if there is a majority in Scotland. There is also

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a duty on the UK government to make sure that in the meantime, before

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any referendum is held, that there is stability, and that the decision

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is put to the people. David Cameron says he believes the referendum

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should be held sooner than later. If Scotland decided to go it alone,

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it would be very hard for Labour to force his way back into government

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through the other three that were left. Do you see that Labour's hand

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could be forced on the issue of independence, bearing in mind that

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it would not want to be dictated to by a centre-right government from

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West minster? In the past we have had a Labour majority of MPs in

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England alone, so that argument can be put to one side. As far as I am

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concerned, the UK by its way above its weight on the international

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stage, and I am proud to be part of that. The influence we have had in

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the G8 and G20, those sorts of platforms, those are very important,

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and I see very much that we want to work together as a United Kingdom.

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As far as Scotland are concerned, people want to discuss the issues,

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of course, and they may choose to be independent, but we see

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ourselves stronger in the economic climate at the moment, when we are

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together, rather than apart. There are greater powers that could come

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to Wales and the future, fiscal powers. Many of those government

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are not to want. The commission are looking at it at the moment, and

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when they come back to us to see whether that is the sort of way

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they want to go, that is when we decide. What we need to do is get

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the right decisions made up the right level. Something practical to

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deal with -- some things are practical to deal with in Cardiff,

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and some in Brussels. The Welsh Conservatives have

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embraced devolution over the past few years, bearing in mind some

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people say it is a process, not an event. What would you like to see

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as being the next step on the devolution road in Wales? It was

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not us who came up with that saying, but you're right, we believe in

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accepting things as they are, and doing with the tools we have what

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we can to improve life. Whether it is going to be independence, devo

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max, or whether they go for some form of development along the

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devolution process, they are moving ahead. Are we behind them? No, the

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same person spoke about the symmetrical devolution, and Wales

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has a different situation and Scotland. I am not hearing any

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calls from anyone, politicians included, that the situation should

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be different with in Wales. We are very different country to Scotland,

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and it has a lot of interchange across the border. I think our

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relationship is right at the more money. Thank you very much.

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right at the moment. Wills's politicians are turning

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their minds to the elections in May. They will decide who is running

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public money for the next full years. -- four years. They will

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decide who will be running vital public services for the next four

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years cold --. But they will also be a key test of how the main

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parties are faring in the political Labour lost six councils, and

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Labour kept his majority in two. It regained its control in Bridgend,

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with help from independence. I lost a seat in 2008. They were very

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difficult elections for us. We're now in a very much better place for

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the elections. We are the only party who are on the front foot.

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Membership numbers are rising, organisation is very good, and I am

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feeling positive. Plaid Cymru felt pain in his -- its heartland four

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years ago. As the largest group in Carmarthenshire, it is hoping to be

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at the helm from a. Some of the most important services, in terms

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of the standard of life for people in Wales, are decided by local

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authorities. A very important election, and I hope the people of

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Wales come to vote. I hope we can persuade them that Plaid Cymru is

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offering them an option they have not looked at in the past.

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Conservative easily held Monmouth Show, and David Cameron went there

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to celebrate. I am quite optimistic. The feedback

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we are getting on the doors across the whole of Wales is actually

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pretty good. They want efficient, good quality public services, and

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they do not want to see hikes in the council tax, and that is why

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the main policy we have is to advocate the freezing of council to

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axe. All parties are hoping to do this, including the Liberal

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Democrats. Across the councils, we have a good story to tell people.

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That is why I am quite hopeful that once the story is told to people

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they will see the value of keeping Liberal Democrats in control. What

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we're trying to do is consolidate what we have got. Given where we

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are, that will be a major achievement. If we do better than

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that I would be very happy indeed. One part of Wales is not likely to

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go to the polls this spring. Anglesey's local election is

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expected to be postponed by one year by ministers, as the review of

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the electoral boundaries on the Elections are being fought a very

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different context this time. Obviously what is happening at the

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moment is, whilst the Welsh government is trying to protect

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finances, what is coming from the UK government is prices rising and

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inflation. This is a very difficult context. We welcome the opportunity

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to get out and see what people are thinking, but it is difficult

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because what people will be doing is saying, we are very concerned

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about the local services, we are very concerned about how they're

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going to be delivered, and it will not be easy for any council to

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deliver over the next four years. We're there for the fight, and we

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can see that people are coming back to us, and saying they're going to

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be voting Labour. How difficult will it be to fight a positive

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local campaign, bearing in mind the pressures that council's face at

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the moment? Going back to what was said a moment ago about the cuts in

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Wales. Even key numbers in the Labour Party, like Alastair Darling,

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Are saying cuts were inevitable. It falls on all parties to fight the

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campaign. In terms of public finances, local authorities deliver

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a huge range of services, and we have to argue for things like a

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freeze on council tax, for people These elections are sometimes a

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reflection on how the parties are doing centrally and nationally. Ed

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Miliband is starting on his bigger relaunch. If we are reading the

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papers today, he has a negative rating among his own party. Do you

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think that will be a factor in the elections? It is always difficult

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when you are leader of the opposition. But he has led the

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debate on crony capitalism. But his own people turn against. He has led

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this debate, and we see David Cameron and trying to adopt the

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sort of strategies, trying to tackle things like excessive

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salaries at the top. When you're an opposition, if you have good ideas,

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they are often stolen. Cutting the budgets, will that reflect on your

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party? No, I think people are aware that we are in a difficult

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financial situation, and these cuts are inevitable. Labour has said

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that themselves. David Cameron was speaking more about the need to

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deal with some of the inequities in the citizens before if Ed Miliband

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was. Each week will have a look back at

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the Welsh political week. Here is the week in 62nd.

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-- 60 seconds. Carwyn Jones accused the UK

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government of buying off the Secretary of State for Wales for a

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high-speed rail line. He questioned the decision to spend money on a

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tunnel designed to limit effect on the landscape in a Buckinghamshire

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constituency. Adam Price backed Leanne Wood for the Plaid Cymru

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leadership. Another contender launched a scathing attack on their

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election strategy. Leslie Griffiths said women in

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Wales who need faulty breast implants removed will be offered

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and plants -- replacements on the NHS, even if the original operation

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was carried out privately. And battle-lines were drawn over

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the proposal to reorganise parliamentary constituency

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boundaries, resulting in Wales That was the week and 60 seconds.

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Nia Griffith, be used to have the men I Straits, what has happened to

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the great country? -- Menai. Sadly, their numbers have been reduced,

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and that is something we do not want to say, but it was a difficult

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job to draw up the boundaries, and they have come up with something

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that is a reasonable attempt. There would be a lot of changes suggested

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that local level, but when you look at the parameters within they had

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to work, you have to say that they have made a good first try. Do you

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wear a places with no historical link are being put together?

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Boundary Commission have done a good job, that is recognised. The

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reduction from 40 to 30 MPs is a good thing. The equalisation of the

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number of electors in each seat is a good thing as well. For 3 million

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