13/05/2012 Sunday Politics Wales

Later in the programme, with an ailing economy, should we be

calling time on free prescriptions and other benefits handed out by

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2003 seconds

Hello er I am Aled ap Dafydd and on the Sunday Politics Wales. We all

get them free of charge even though some of us could afford to pay for

them, should free prescriptions come to an end?

And is the bark of a dog worse than it spite? It seems not as the

government launches a consultation on micro chipping dogs after 500

attacks in three years. Being kept firmly on early this

morning, Derek Vaughan and Baroness Randerson.

In the news this week, at the announcement that the �365 million

wind farms scheme in your part of the world has been given the go-

ahead. Is that good news? achieve a Secure energy supply at a

reasonable costs for consumers, we need at technology makes and that

includes nuclear, gas in the short term and it includes renewable

energy and wind is a key part of that. What I don't like is when we

get planning applications in for hundreds of wind farms in the same

location. I feel that it spoils the local landscape and environment. I

am in favour of small-scale wind farm schemes. Where do you stand on

the, not in my backyard argument first is the renewable energy

argument? The Welsh Liberal Democrats have consistently said

ever since the Welsh government produced its renewable energy

strategy back about eight years ago, we have consistently said that

there was an over-reliance on wind. It is understandable because wind

was easy energy, but it now needs to move to a much more diverse

range of pressures to ensure that we get a complete range of

renewable energy. Solar power, a wave power, tidal power, we need to

be moving to that fall range because I do understand why people

feel that in parts of Wales, the landscape is totally dominated by

wind farms. We will talk again shortly.

Free prescriptions and hospital car-parking are two other series of

new universal benefits in June -- introduced under Welsh devolution.

Proudly promoted by ministers, others see them as a luxury where

the economy is weak. Leading business experts are calling for

such schemes to be thoroughly reassessed and dropped if there is

little evidence they are significantly boost in prosperity

and jobs. I'm on the Wales coast path on the

Glamorgan Heritage Coast. Open just last week, it is the first time the

coast path has gone all the way around the country. If you go that

way, you will end up on the River Dee eventually. In that direction

it will take you to Chepstow. The Welsh government believe that

tourism writer along this stretch will get a significant boost and

there is a call for this sort of government spending as a public

finances grow type. In Wales we no longer pay for

prescriptions, museum entry or parking in hospitals. There are

free school breakfasts and bus travel if we are over 60 or have a

disability. Brian Morgan believes it is time to consider what such

schemes mean for the economy. Should the answer be, not a lot? He

once budgets diverted into projects to boost prosperity and private

sector jobs. Unfortunately, somebody came up with an idea, this

would be good, why don't we have free car-parking in hospitals? Why

don't we have free bus passes? Great when the money is there, but

we are now strapped for cash and these projects are not cheap. If

you were to put together all of what I call a free lunch projects,

they come to 60-100 million. That is actually the equivalent to the

amount of money that we spend on our trunk road system. And M4

relief road, electrification of Valley Line trains, two schemes

Brian Morgan were believed would put fire in the Welsh economy his

belly. There is no alternative now. Difficult decisions have to be made.

If we don't make them, I feel we will continue in the wrong

direction in terms of going from 74% of GPA per head down to 70%.

Nobody wants us to go in that direction and it is vital that the

assembly government takes the difficult decisions and focuses,

from now on, its expenditure profile on things that really

matter to the economy and to jobs. Our invitation to a Welsh

government minister to come on the programme was declined, but Andrew

Davis was a senior Cabinet figure throughout the period when the

various schemes were introduced. is an invest to save. If you can

get people staying independent longer, it keeps them out of the

health service and hospitals and that is there for saving money in

the NHS. 48 per sense of the Welsh Government's budget goes on the

health service so anything that can reduce demands on the health

service will benefit, not just Welsh government, not just public

services, but the economy. In a statement the Welsh government

Of the economy, the spokesperson Looking back on devolution as first

decade, Andrew Davies reckons an employment and wage rises compared

well with the rest of the UK, yet the fundamental weakness remain.

Wales is still very much a branch economy country where, for example,

it steel companies, Ford and others, their headquarters are elsewhere

have so the crucial decisions about Investment are often made outside

of Wales. When there is a downturn and the recession, decisions about

investment and job losses are not made here in Wales. We are always

going to be vulnerable to that until we can continue to build lots

more Admiral type companies based in Wales and decisions are made in

Wales. It is hoped that the Wales coast path will be is a tourism

industry for many decades. It is a tangible scheme whose benefits are

easy to understand. Welsh ministers believe that free prescriptions and

three breakfast, for example, also this the economy by raising

education and health levels. As public finances get tighter and

tighter, we can expect more arguments over whether Wales is on

the right track dishing out the so- called freebies.

In the words of Brian Morgan, great schemes when the money is there,

not so great when we are in a period where we have no money.

are definitely schemes that were conceived in the boom time so the

product of the good times when many was plentiful. I don't think the

government in Wales would have invented them nowadays when money

is so tight. When you look at the economy and you look at the state

of Wales in general and our society, the problems, such as poor health,

go back to our poor economic status. High levels of unemployment and

high levels of poor education as well, lack of qualifications. So

the Liberal Democrats have always emphasised and indeed in the last

Budget, use their influence in the assembly to make sure that the

money went to the pupil premium to deal with the poorest children and

to stimulate the economy. So we reckon that that is why you

concentrate, but having said all that, it is a very brave politician

who decides to cut those free offers. When you go to the pharmacy

to get your prescription, are you slightly embarrassed that you are

not paying for it because the quip that the Conservatives make is that

this is by Angella for millionaires. I'm not saying that you are a

millionaire, but you take the point. Maybe in some ways, but the policy

is not designed for people like myself, it is designed for all

people in Wales. The mistake some people make is they confuse revenue

funding and capital funding. Even in the time when people did pay for

prescriptions, 88% of people didn't actually pay for prescriptions, so

it is the wealthy or the comfortable lee of 12%, you could

argue, who have benefited. I hear those arguments, but there is no

doubt that this particular policy is very popular. We have seen that

in the recent Assembly results and in the local government results.

Apart from maybe a Conservative. It is popular. One of the arguments is

that people who actually needed prescriptions were deterred from

doing so because they could not afford it. There was an assessment

made of this policy three years after it was introduced and it said

that since 2000, the increase in prescriptions has fluctuated

between 3.9% and 6% with no unusual increases following the

introduction of the policy. In fact, there were some big a year-on-year

percentage increases in the number of prescriptions dispensed before

the policy came into effect. In other words, people who could not

afford all who had perceive they could not afford, actually could

afford to pay for them. anecdotal evidence that I got when

I was health spokesperson were from GPs that people were going

unnecessarily to see their GP on many occasions to get stuff that

actually was a matter of very small amounts of money. These were people

who could afford to go to the chemist and by the prescription. I

think really you have to look at whether it is ineffective of

improving the health of the nation. At that time, my point was that

this was 40 to �50 million extra per year that is being spent on

prescriptions. Would that money be better spent actually in the

hospitals of Wales shortening the waiting times. It was built by

Andrew Davies as an invest to save scheme. If it was turning out that

this was keeping people out of hospitals, why do we have a health

service which is creaking? Consideration might be worse, but I

want to come back to the second side of this argument, whether we

should spend money on big infrastructure projects and I think

we should. There is a huge amount left to be done in terms of

rectifying railways and improving our roads and broadband. We need to

find funds to do that. I'm not sure that taking money from the health

service is the way to do that. We should be looking at European

structural funds. Let's spend some of that the you money on big

infrastructure Prof -- projects that will make a big impact. Do you

think politically it would be impossible to reverse these

policies. What the voters do not like is something that is here

today and gone tomorrow. Absolutely. If you take something away from

somebody they will let you know. I'll Wednesday the Welsh government

launches an introduction to micro chipping dogs. In the last three

years there have been 500 attacks in Wales. Julie Morgan is bringing

forward a Private Member's Bill introducing that owners take

responsibility for their pets. legislation is to look after the

welfare of the dogs to begin with and compulsory micro chipping will

make it easier for lost dogs to be reunited with owners. It is trying

to get responsible dog ownership and also to protect children and

other human beings, really. The concentration is on ID'd, not the

breed. The have concentration in the dangerous Dogs Act whereas any

dog can be dangerous in the same way that any dog can be a loving

dog. Dog owners love their dogs and All of that. The I suppose that

micro chipping dogs would make it easier to catch or trace the owners

of dogs who are responsible for these attacks, but it is not going

to decrease the amount of the tax, is it?

Not immediately, but I think over a period of time it would change the

attitude towards keeping dogs. I am old enough to remember the time

when you had to have a licence to have a dog. It was 37p in March to

many and at that point, that was a significant amount of money. So you

only went into dog ownership in those days if you could afford that

because people were prosecuted for not having a licence. I think we

have a problem, particularly in some of our poorest areas, some of

our large estates, with a number of stray dogs. The number of attacks

is the tip of the iceberg of the problem because there are loads of

little children and elderly people who are really quite frightened to

walk around their local streets because of stray dogs. I think that

this Bill is an essential and important way of getting the

problem under control over a period of time. Oddly going to see

irresponsible dog owners going to great lengths to avoid chipping at?

Some people may try to avoid the law. Different people in different

circumstances try to avoid the law, but it does not mean this isn't a

good thing. I support micro chipping and think it will be good

for the dogs, owners and society. How are enforceable is such a

scheme? It seems to work in Northern Ireland and Scotland. I

think it is a very good thing for us to be looking at this here as a

problem in Wales and I believe there is consultation going to take

place in England as well. I think it is the way we are moving across

Britain. This consultation is so important and no doubt the Welsh

government will want to consult with local authorities because they

will be asked to do most of the enforcement. If local authorities

have more power, those responsibilities will Cullis some

cost. We must press on. Time for a quick look back at the week in 60

seconds. Some hospital services are in

danger of collapse without radical changes to the way their NHS is run

according to the Welsh Institute of Health and Social Care. It said

centralising some services could reduce the risks of unnecessary

disability and even death. The UK government approved plans

for a new wind farm in South Wales that could produce electricity for

more than 200,000 homes. The 76 turbine is could generate more

power than any other onshore wind farm in Wales and England.

Plaid Cymru said there should be changing the rules of the National

Assembly so that members could face disciplinary action if they behave

dishonourably. Comments came after Keith Davies bought the

distribution into disrepute after a drunken night out.

And politicians united to ensure Cardiff City play in blue next

season. Question marks remain over the future direction of the

football club. One of the issues which did not

make our highlight, but is a good talking point, are the comments by

the presiding officer of the assembly is said that she would

like to see 80 assembly members rather than 60 who currently sit

there. Controversial at a time when politicians are not overly popular

with the electorate? They say timing is everything so although

they may be needed, now is not the time. Sometime in the future I

think we need to look at that. further law-making powers in the

establishment, do you think that there is the capacity, to 60

members have the capacity to scrutinise policy and the work of

the government and make laws because the situation in the

assembly has changed a lot after last year's referendum. I think the

assembly is usually stretched. Assembly members have always been

badly stretched in terms of being about to give enough concentration

and time to issues in depth. Law- making powers will make it more

difficult and are making it more difficult, but I agree with Derek

entirely. Mel is not the time. It is worth remembering the new

building was built so that it could expand easily to take 80 members so

when the time is right, I am sure it will emerge. Can I ask you about

the report into the conduct of Keith Davies? Some people are

saying that there are not robust enough sanctions in place when a Ms

fall short of the contract that some people might expect of them.

Do you agree? I was a member of the Standards Committee and the

sanctions are very complex and I understand the frustration that

people feel about that, but having said that, the publicity and the

public ignominy that he has suffered is really bad. Is that

enough or should Labour take some action? I think that is enough.

Keith Davies has urged -- has done something wrong and had all this