14/07/2013 Sunday Politics Wales

Government is spending the summer reviewing the NHS budget.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2216 seconds

What prescription could Health Hello, and on the Sunday Politics

Wales: What could be the impact of the Welsh government's health

spending review? And we visit sunny Anglesey, where

there's an Assembly by-election campaign in full swing. Joining me

throughout today's programme are two AMs, Labour's Mick Antoniw and the

Conservative's Nick Ramsay. Good morning to you both. Let's begin

with a subject we touched on in last week 's problem -- programme, Labour

and the unions. At Miliband has attempted to redefine the party 's

link with the unions. Is that a positive thing? I think we all went

to the far closer links with the trade unions and members and greater

activity from members. I do not have any difficulty with the existing

funding system because it avoids as being in the pockets of

millionaires. Which I suppose is having a go at Nick Ramsay 's party.

6p a week from an ordinary working person going towards the Labour

party, I think is far preferable to a system where you have got a

Conservative party must dependent on million pound donations from bunkers

and financiers. I think it might as much more accountable to working

people. But few people might choose to pay that sixpence, which means

your party and up they got less money. People know about it. You

cannot avoid it. It is on the television virtually every day.

Whether the change in the system will make a difference, I don't

know, but one thing that is important is I want to see far more

trade union and ordinary working people not only active within the

Labour Party but standing for things like cancels, the assembly and

parliament so they become far more representative of the society at

large. He was adjusting your party is in the pockets of financiers. I

think that is a blatant exaggeration. There have been a few

millionaire donations to Labour over the years. This issue with the trade

union membership is that everyone who is a member of my party chooses

to be a member of my party. Sadly, the way the relationship with the

trade union and the Labour Party works is unless you opt out, you can

be adopted into Labour Party membership, which is what has

happened in Falkirk. I think he is right. He knows we need to change

the way this is done. Has that Miliband, he has almost been forced

into doing this, because he has chosen not to change the

relationship since he took over. now he has done something about it,

is that a case of self preservation for him or for the good of the

party? What has happened is an agenda that is brought forward.

have been discussing the nature of the relationship and how we get more

trade union individuals active within the party. The fortnight

before the whole argument stood up, I was attending a whole series of

meetings with trade union workers, nurses and so one where we were

talking about the relationship with the trade unions and many of them

were joining the party as a consequence of that. He has been

stepped up for a sitting amount of political opportunism, detracting

from what is happening in society, but this debate has been going on.

It has catalysed the agenda for more quickly. Your party have heaped the

pressure on him over this? I think the way the relationship with the

unions has worked as cause that pressure itself. What is the all

adage? No greater love hath man than to lay down his union for the sake

of his life? We know why he has taken that decision. He is worried

about his job. On last week's programme, Mark

Drakeford told me about what he described as an historic week in

Welsh politics. The NHS was 65 years old and Assembly Members backed a

bill which would allow Wales to become the first country in the UK

to adopt a process where people will be presumed to have consented for

their organs to be donated unless they object. I am not sure if the

health minister would describe the events of the past few days as

historic, but they have been described as significant. On

Tuesday, yet announced a review of the health budget to improve patient

care. The move was part of the Welsh government 's response to a high

profile enquiry into serious failings at this hospital trust. I

will be undertaking a review of the NHS budget over the summer.

ensure that it reflects the lessons to be learned from this. The

additional burdens which both the health service and to ensure there

is a proper match between the quality of care, patient safety

issues and the budgets to support them. This was a very significant

statement in the context of quality and safety. It reaffirms the

government commitment to facing quality and safety as the prime

emphasis of health policy in Wales, which attach to be. The Inquiry

demonstrated quite clearly what can go wrong and badly wrong if the

focus is on the other things. I think this announcement is pivotal

and key in ensuring that health boards now are aware that quality

and safety has two dominate their thinking. The minister also

announced that �10 million would be spent on recruiting extra nurses.

pledged to update the current NHS complaints procedure and review

basic standards of care and announced changes to the structure

of the plan service in Wales. If the review of NHS spending results in an

increase to the health budget, we could that money come from? The

government has to face the question, to the man to spend more in health.

I will but come from 's education and social services are, in a sense,

protect it, so local government is going to have to look at declining

allocations to them and what are they going to cut in order to

provide the health service with the budget? The anecdotal evidence has

been that health has been frozen for the past few years because they had

the seven years of plenty. It is a else's turn to have the benefit.

Now, with this additional expenditure, they may have two

revert to type and suffered the consequences of putting more money

into health. Let's pick up on some of those points. Your party leader

welcomed the review this week. He didn't go as far as to thank the

government for taking on what is essentially one of your party

policies. We welcomed the review. Once again, talk about another

conversion on the road to Damascus, I accuse the first minister of that

this week. We have been banging on about this for ages. Of course,

there has to be increased spending on the NHS. If the Welsh Labour

government had listened to my party in the last election, the health

budget would have been protect it. That it not happen. There are

massive pressures on the NHS. No matter how much money you were able

to put into it, there will be problems in finding all the demands,

but the people of Wales want to see extra money spent on the NHS and I

know it is difficult to make cuts in other areas, but at the end of the

day, the NHS is the key priority. will come back to the point and

where money should come from. Mark Dreyfus has announced a review. It

does not mean there will be more money. It might be re-prioritised. I

doubt that money will be cut from it. The government has essentially

taken on the Conservative message to protect the NHS. I think this is

about learning lessons from... the Conservatives? No.This is a

very serious report which goes to the roots of the care and quality

within the NHS. We can have our buns are on the NHS, -- and on the NHS.

It is about the quality of care within the NHS and the social

services. It is about what lessons we will learn. What we need to do? ,

listening to people properly? To the complaints systems work? Is there an

attic its standard of care bash Matt attic Kate standard of care? --

adequate. One of the lessons we might learn is that we have been

very focused in terms of delays in operations. Sometimes, we take our

eye off the ball in terms of ultimately, when people go into

hospital, what you want is the compassion, the care and the

consideration and you need the staffing levels to be able to do

that. When the reports came out, we had a Sarah debate in the assembly.

The most important thing is that we are not only evaluating that and

seeing how it applies to what is happening in hospitals in Wales and

learn lessons and come forward with recommendations. That is why I very

much favoured the announcement that has been made by Mark Drakeford

acres it means we will have a bit of a review of all those particular

issues. I think he realised it at to happen. You could not go one with a

lack of funding going to the NHS. But it is not just about funding.

Funding can go into the NHS and all sorts of ways. It is about actually

raising the quality and the standard of care. Why has it taken this

report to be published now to make sure that -- to make the government

realises it is to be done? It has always been on the agenda. Because

there has been much more analysis of the outcomes of what happens in

hospitals, we are much more outcome focused, which is the way it should

be. Jargon aside, there have been a lot of reviews over the years which

ends up on a shelf and years later, you can see them in a misery.

hope this actually works. That is why it is important that we have the

report and we are publicly and transparently evaluating what the

recommendations are. We will be testing them against what proposals

we put forward to actually deal with those. Levels of staffing and care

and of going to be at the core of it. Let's look at the financial

implications. You touched and it to you. If more money goes into health,

but has to come from somewhere else. Professor Ceri Phillips touched on

that earlier. Will it come from education? You suggested local

government might be in the line of fire. He was wrong on the fact that

some of the other budgets have been protected. They have not. The

schools budget has been cut. Local government is taking its own cuts.

Don't let's pretend that those have been protected areas. Economies...

That makes it even more difficult to find any extra money. The issue is

that the health service was protected in the UK to a certain

extent at the last election. And in Wales, because the health budget

takes up a huge portion, on the staff of the assembly 's budget,

that means that any failure to protect the health budget has a

disproportionate effect. When you consider the extra health issues in

Wales, that can happen. I am pleased that Mark Drakeford is taking a look

that is. He is not someone who will take any prisoners. He knows that

the future of the NHS is at stake. nuclear reaction he has taken in the

last week, particularly on this issue, is the right way to go, even

if it could have happened sooner? It is essential that we have had the

review. And we have had the meetings with all the heads of the health

boards in order to discuss the implications of it. We do not know

what the announcements will be, but clearly, they are going to lead to

higher staffing levels in certain areas. An extra focus on the quality

of care. That would have very serious effects on other parts of

the assembly budget. Disproportionately so on the areas

that are not ring fenced. There will be knock-on is from this

announcement. We will cover them again.

Next to Ynys Mon, where voters go to the polls on August first to elect a

new Assembly Member following the resignation of Ieuan Wyn Jones,

who's off to run the new Menai Science Park. There are six

candidates standing, and Brian Meechan's been on the island to find

a campaign that's in full swing. With maybe basking in a heatwave but

on Anglesey, the political temperatures are also rising. The

sitting AM and former Deputy first Minister Ieuan Wyn Jones shocked

political observers with his resignation to take up a new role,

triggering a by-election on the 1st of August. Talk to any of the

candidates about what the local concerns are and the answer is

unsurprising. My priorities are investment, creation of jobs,

preservation of the jobs we have and investment to parts it back on the

map. As jobs and the economy are on the front of voters minds, the

nuclear power on the islands is playing a major role. The current

power stations coming to the end of its operational life. There are

plans underway for a replacement. The first Minister and the Labour

candidate signed a pledge backing it on a visit to the local college this

week. The main issue which we raised with people locally is jobs. It is

obviously the biggest project in Wales, if not the UK in terms of

location. In terms of actually getting jobs and high-tech jobs.

What we are highlighting today is the way that we have got local

firms, construction and the college doing the work to make sure local

people benefit from those jobs. Plaid Cymru candidate says he is

excited about the prospect and the jobs it will bring, but he once the

environmental problems that will come with it to be dealt with. The

critics say they are having a both ways. Putting new nuclear power

locally while they party and its leader are anti-nuclear nationally.

We are very comfortable as a party saying let's work with the

developers to get jobs on the island whilst asking the really portion

questions on the issues that worry people. -- important. We are being

very honest with the people about what it can offer us. And we will

work with the developers to make sure it works in the interest of

Anglesey. Party-mac argued there are differences on opinion on nuclear

power in other parties. I would rather not see the investment in

this, but we have two except that the original station is living on

borrowed time. We have a huge raft of staff that have a great

expertise. We do not want to lose them. If we wait for the new one to

be developed, we will lose them. Can we really keep the current station

going and in the 2021? We need to look for alternative energies and

make them work and we can then benefit from the skills we have on

the island already. This is not just about winning another seat. If Welsh

Labour take Ynys Mon from Plaid Cymru, they will win a majority in

the assembly. It would also allow Labour to pass laws without fear of

opposition parties blocking them. They both say they will continue to

work with the other parties constructively, even if they did

secure a majority. It is going in every conceivable political

direction. All of the four major parties have held a seat at

Westminster. Since 1999, the assembly seat has been held by Plaid

Cymru. At the last assembly election, it was the Conservatives

in second place. After the council election, the Independent controlled

the local authority in coalition with Labour and the Lib Dems.

Party-mac was the largest party. Neither party had a cancer elected.

The Tory candidate says he is not worried about the rising support for

the new force in Rajesh politics. is a protest party. And the buzz of

that process is still very effective. Their policy on the

movement of European migration does not seem a huge issue on Anglesey.

When I am asked about it, I half to say that my dentist, my plumber, my

decorator -- my decorator on all Polish or Ukrainian and contribute a

great deal. From speaking to people, people are absolutely fed up of the

status quo of what is happening. You could point into the last election

with a policy of abolishing the assembly. They can still believes

too much money is being spent by the current devolution set and councils

should have more power. But there find that the party could be

softening its stance on devolution. This is a work in progress.

haven't finalised the policy on devolution. There are lots of

stakeholders involved. They have got a member of the Northern Irish

assembly, we have got people involved very closely in Scotland

and, of course, here in Wales. I think what we will need to do as a

party is have a devolution conference were all of the

stakeholders get together and we decide exactly what we want our

devolution policy to be. Many on the island believe it is unique and that

impact is on its politics. People do actually vote for the local

candidate as well as for the party. Having been here on the island for

ten years, speaking Welsh, which not all the other candidates do, either

live on the island or speak Welsh, those issues matter here. It is very

much a distinctive voice on Anglesey that is not always heard in Cardiff

or Westminster. There we start from the island, the Labour candidate is

keen to stress his roots are on Anglesey. I was delighted to be able

to come back to North Wales and what is needed is an assembly member who

understand the difference between North, and South Wales. In terms of

the economy and issues we have got you, I spent a lot of time on the

island and I were to be continuing to spend a lot of time here,

listening and talking to people and making sure their views are

represented in Cardiff. I recognise your face. Not dissimilar to Matt

Damon. Critics have said that Plaid Cymru have been focusing too much on

celebrity because there candidate is a former BBC and as for the

presenter and not enough on the issues. I am the local candidate

that can win here on Ynys Mon. Celebrity is a youth -- word that

might use. As far as I'm concerned, I am a local man who is bringing his

family upon the island where I was brought up by self. People who are

from Anglesey, like myself, who were brought up here, have a passion for

the place. The Socialist Labour candidate is also standing. Voters

have a little over two weeks to make up their minds as another twist in

the effort colourful world of Anglesey politics runs its course.

You can see more about the candidates in the August first

Assembly by-election on Anglesey by going to BBC Wales' news online

pages. Time now for a quick look back at some of the political

stories of the week in 60 Seconds. The former Conservative MP and AM

Robert Richards joined the UK Independence party. Mr Richards, who

is a former Wales office minister wants to be an active member. He

refused to be drawn on whether he might stand as a candidate in next

year 's European elections. Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg told MPs

that supporters of the assembly having more power was would be

pleasantly surprised by the UK government is forward leading

approach when it is response to the socket omission report is

published. The Welsh government said the construction of a �1 billion M4

relief road in South Wales could be paid for by Severn Bridge Poles. --

tolls. Jane had said talks with Westminster over transferring

responsibility over the crossings to Wales had been constructive. Several

Welsh MPs criticised proposals to give them up pay rise. The

Independent Parliamentary standards authority said there they sit pay

should increase to �74,000 a year after the 2015 election. That was

the week that has been. We are into the final week of the assembly term.

On Tuesday, there is a debate on an emergency bill to do with the

agricultural wages board, something you have been campaigning hard on.

Assembly members will be discussing that this week. Tell us why you

think it is important. 13,000 agricultural workers who will suffer

reduced terms and conditions and pay and it will have an adverse effect

on agriculture within Wales and increase rural poverty. Is it right

that the assembly is discussing this on Tuesday? There was a discussion

whether it was able to? We do not have any choice. It was only

abolished on the 25th of June. If we do not do something, by October,

thousands of workers will be suffering. You do not think you

should be taking the time to discuss it. Respect and loads of issues, but

this is not one of them. This is a complete red herring. The

agricultural wages board has only become it an issue because they that

have decided to make it an issue. And the government can do that if

they went. They can if they want to focus on things that will not help

rural poverty. It will get worse. There were 24 responses to the

consultation. Ten of them came from UNITA and the other six from your

own ATMs. The farmers union of Wales, young farmers, totally

opposed to the abolition. You are supporting increased rural poverty.

In favour of the land owners. have phrased a sitting question, do

you think abolishing it will help things? Of course it will. People

will have increased protection and entitlement to higher wages and