24/04/2016 Sunday Politics Wales

President Obama leaves the UK, claiming it could take up to 10

years to do a free trade deal with the UK if we leave the EU -

but is America's trade deal with the EU any closer to happening?

Immigration's running at more than three times

the Government's target - but is the Home Secretary right that

Britain can only stay in the single market if it agrees to the continued

Jeremy Corbyn faces his first big electoral test as Labour Leader

Later in the programme, the Tories will the party increase the number

Later in the programme, the Tories and Labour have published their

In the capital: manifestos ahead of the

as the mayoral finishing line draws closer, Labour's candidate,

Sadiq Khan, is here with us to outline why he should

And with me for the duration, three journalists whom no-one puts

at the back of the queue - or even the line.

Nick Watt, Isabel Oakeshott and Tom Newton Dunn -

they'll be tweeting throughout the programme.

So, Air Force One left Stanstead Airport a few hours ago

and the President is now in Hanover, Germany.

But the reverberations of Mr Obama's intervention in the EU referendum

On Friday, the President told a press conference

the EU, it would be at the back of the queue when it comes to doing

a free trade deal with the US - comments he was asked about in a BBC

The UK would not be able to negotiate something with the United

We wouldn't abandon our efforts to negotiate a trade deal with our

largest trading partner, the European market, but rather,

it could be five years from now, ten years

from now, before we were able to actually get something done.

And I'm joined now by the Justice Minister and Leave

Welcome to the programme. Mr Obama, 5-10 years for a free-trade deal

with the UK under the EU. He's right, isn't he? What was most

interesting this morning was how far he has backtracked since Friday

evening. As you said, we were told we would be sent to the back of the

queue if we didn't take his advice and stay in the EU. Now, he has said

that if Britain was independent from the EU, we could not expect to do a

free-trade deal quicker than with the EU. No one is really expecting

that, so I think the reality is that these things can take time. It has

taken almost 40 years even to get to this stage with a stalled EU- US

deal. I think we would be better placed, and we are not prejudiced by

being outside the EU in doing that. The president has made it clear that

American power will do regional deals. That is why he has put so

much energy into a specific deal with the 11 countries. He wants to

do and EU deal involving all the EU members. The only started in 2013,

they haven't been at it for 40 years. We have been talking about it

for 40 years. That is a different matter. The negotiations started in

2013. We would be a long way behind these two megadeal. When he said we

were at the back of the queue, I was a bit startled, so I went and

checked. The US has no other bilateral negotiations for a freight

train with any other country than the EU. When you look at the 23

trade deals it has, none of them are worth an economy bigger than

Britain. Let's remember that if America signed a trade deal with us,

it would be the equivalent of the North American trade deal because...

I think we have strong mutual interest in doing it. America had a

number of bilateral free trade talks going on with about 15 different

countries. It essentially froze them because it wants to do regional

deals - why would it reopen at Mr Ross? In the last 25 years, it has

done a string of bilateral and regional negotiations, given the

collapse of WTO talks, the Pacific deal was done. The EU one is stuck

in the mud. If Britain came out of the EU, saying, we are not shackled

by the special interests of film-makers who don't want American

box sets polluting French culture, we want insist on the labelling

requirements unfettered cheese that the Greeks do. And we won't have a

dispute about the settlement mechanism that the Europeans are

concerned about and people are concerned about in this country. It

is important to understand why the Americans insist on that, because

they don't trust the court systems in many European countries will stop

American firms trust British courts to resolve commercial this beautiful

stop all of these problems will be swept away, and I think we would be

well placed. If we're done with the EU and we not a member, the EU will

have free trade with United States and we don't know when we will have

it. It could give a huge advantage to the French, Germans, Italians and

Spanish. We know that the White House briefs out... The White House

regularly briefed it. If you look at White House commentary, let me just

put this to you - if America was my priority is the EU deal, the best

way of ramping up its negotiations leveraged would be to come to a

relatively quick deal with Britain. That would put the pressure on. In

trade negotiations, America had a history of doing that. Do you accept

that whatever our relationship with the EU, if we read, we can have no

full access to the single market unless we agree to free movement of

people? It depends what you mean by full access to the single market. I

think we would not see any trade barriers go up because we are the

fifth biggest economy in the world, but it means we can have proper

control of our borders and we will not be bound by the stifling

regulation that gives us a competitive disadvantage. It is

important for small businesses here. You still don't know if we would

have access to the single market. You can't tell as that. Everyone who

does who is not a member of the EU has had to agree to free movement.

It is a strawman to say, I can't tell you what the deal looks like

until we have had the referendum. I can tell you this: Look at the

options being put at their - Swiss, Norwegian, Turkish. I think because

Britain's economy is bigger than all of those combined, and because

French farmers and German car manufacturers sell as ?60 billion

more each year than we sell them, we are very well placed and mutual

self-interest suggests we would cut a good deal.

How would we have more control over borders if we left? We would have

control over who could come to work here, I understand that, if we want

in the EU any more, provided we weren't part of the single market,

but how would we be able to stop people coming here? Do you think if

we leave the EU that, if you're French or German or Italian, you

would need a Visa? There are two issues: The numbers, and I think

that as the Home Secretary conceded, we cannot control the numbers

because of free movement if we are in the EU, and that makes life

harder. The second question is, checks at the border, preventative

ones. Under UK law with non-EU countries, we can stop someone

coming in because it is not conducive to the public good. With

the EU, we can only deny entry if there is a serious, credible and

present threat. Which we do. As a result, since 2010, 6000 people have

been turned back from the EU. If you compare that with people from out

with the EU, we have registered to 60 7000. That shows the stronger

checks. I understand, but my question is, outside the EU, we

would not insist on visas for the Germans, French and so on? We would

have to look at that as part of the negotiations. At the moment, the

Obama Administration is looking at new Visa requirement and screening

from Germany, Belgium, Greece, France because of the recent

terrorist attacks. I think we should at least have the power and control

to do that to keep Britain safe. Then we would need a Visa to go to

France and Germany. A final question: Why do you not want the

leader of the National front in France, Marine Le Pen, to come here?

She's one of your biggest supporters. Her views are racist and

I don't share her values. I think our party is deeply offensive. But

she is on your site. All the more reason why I wouldn't like to see

her come. So we do have control over our borders of the Home Secretary

can stop coming? People from outside the EU, rappers like snoop doggy

dog, have been barred entry because they have a offensive views. If the

Home Secretary checks with officials, we probably cannot be

nigh Marine Le Pen entry. It is another demonstration of the things

we can't do because we don't have the proper controls of our borders.

Thank you. Jeremy Corbyn will get his first big

electoral test in just under two weeks' time, when voters go

to the polls in local Opposition parties usually do

well in these contests, even when they've just

lost a general election. But with analysts predicting

that the party could actually lose councillors, party

strategists are There's a simple principle

in British politics - if you want to win elections, you need to win

seats of every shape and size. When in government, parties tend

to lose council seats. In opposition,

they tend to win them. Even Michael Foot, who went

on to lead Labour to its biggest general election defeat

ever, did pretty well to start with. In his first electoral test,

in 1981, the party took When Neil Kinnock became leader,

he also managed a more And then Ed Miliband,

he picked up 857 seats. Since local government was invented

in its modern form in 1974,

there have been only two years - 1982 and 1985 - when the opposition

party has actually lost seats in a local

election if it is not So far, so historically positive for

Jeremy Corbyn. The problem is, experts in the field

reckon Labour could lose 150 seats in these English

council elections. Even the party machine has been

managing expectations. You simply can't

explain away any kind of net loss of seats

in these elections. After all, a new leader

in the middle of his honeymoon period following on from

a disastrous mega-galactic shambles of a budget failure shouldn't expect

to see anything other than dramatic gains in the local

elections that follow. Anything else,

historically speaking, is It's an argument put forward by some

of his MPs. I'm not going to put

a specific number on it, but 300-400 seats would be a good

step in the We have to be ambitious,

because we are the Labour Party, and we are a

party of government. We exist in order to be

in Government and make a difference Southampton, that is where

Ed Miliband has been... The last time this batch of council

seats were contested, Labour under Southampton was one of a number

of areas where Labour failed to capitalise in the general election,

losing a Parliamentary If Jeremy Corbyn wants to be

Prime Minister in 2020, he will be expected to make inroads now in many

of the English council areas, and I think that all

leaders are judged by We've got from now until

the 5th of May to deliver positive and encouraging

results for Labour. It's always hard to compare

historic elections. There are always different

political contexts, varying numbers of seats up grabs,

but rightly or wrongly, several Labour MPs I've spoken

to will do just that, conscious that Jeremy Corbyn

could make history for the And we're joined now

from Salford by the Shadow Education Secretary,

Lucy Powell. Welcome to the programme, Lucy

Powell. Your Labour MP Carly, Stephen Kinnock, says you should be

gaining an extra 300-400 council seat in England - does that seem

right? I won't get into the predictions game. Like Stephen, like

Jeremy and the rest of the Shadow Cabinet, I am optimistic about these

elections. We are a political party and always looking to make gains and

progress at every electoral test. These elections are no different. I

won't get into the predictions business. Hold on. What about the

principle that new opposition leaders always do pretty well in

their first electoral test? I was looking at the record - Ed Miliband,

Tony Blair, Neil Kinnock, even Michael Foot, they all made gains.

We must expect Jeremy Corbyn to do the same, surely?

I have been hoping we will make progress. Do you think you will make

gains? We are looking at winning in London for the first time since

2004, we are looking to make progress in the local elections, we

are looking to stay in power in Wales. Obviously in Scotland things

are difficult there and they are long-term legacy issues for the

Labour Party to deal with in Scotland but you do have to set it

into context. It has been an incredibly tough year for the Labour

Party, we suffered a crushing election defeat. That was not even a

year ago, which we weren't expecting and everybody else wasn't expecting

either. We had a long, drawn-out leadership contest. We have a new

leader in Jeremy Corbyn and it takes time for everybody to adjust to

that. But I think we have had a very positive few weeks where we have

been on the front foot, we have been effective opposition, with issues

like the Budget... We haven't got too much time. Let me put it in

context. The Tories have divided and they are in disarray, last month

brought yet another omnishambles Budget. Why would you not be poised

for big gains? I am very hopeful we will get big gains. London will be a

big gain, we haven't won since 2004. What I'm interested in is how we on

the right track for winning in 2020, and that is a really tough job. I

don't think anyone underestimates the challenge we face as a political

party. Let me see if I can pin you down. Maybe one of the reasons it is

not an easy job is that you may not be in tune with the public mood.

This chart shows they regularly rate immigration one of their number one

concern is, ahead of the NHS and the economy, this is recent poll. Most

are not against immigration but they think the influx is too high. How

does that square with Jeremy Corbyn's view that we have not let

too many in? All of these issues we have got to think deeply about and

there is an urgency to that. Immigration, welfare, the economy,

these were all issues at the last election but that was only a few

months ago. If we knew the answer is, if we knew how we would make

labour relevant again, the Labour values I care about, how we will

make them relevant in the modern world, if I had those answers we

wouldn't be sitting here now because we would be in Government. Do you

agree with Jeremy Corbyn... We have got to spend time, doing the

difficult job of understanding how the Labour Party can be relevant in

the modern world, and that includes issues... If you let me come back to

immigration and get a specific answer out of you. Do you agree with

Jeremy Corbyn that in recent years we have not let too many in? I don't

want to get into a numbers game about immigration. I know from all

the work I do on the doorstep, immigration is a massive issue and

people have real concerns about the impact that immigration has on some

of our communities. As the Labour Party, we have to address those.

That's why I thought we were right at the last election to have a

policy around the emergency rate for example on benefits for EU migrants,

a policy the Government have adopted, but I don't think simple

retail policy offers are what Labour's challenge is right now. Our

challenge is over the next few years what is our relevant values that we

can offer to the public that will help us win the election. Let me

come onto education. You asked if you planned to bring academies under

local authority control and you said no, by 2020 almost every secondary

school will be a free School or an Academy, do you stand by that? Only

17% of primary schools are academies. You said nearly every

secondary, do you stand by that? I don't know about primary schools,

let's see what happens over the next few weeks because the Government's

attempt to force all schools against their wishes to become an Academy is

on the rocks. They put the brakes on some schools feeling they have no

option but to become academies, which is what many schools felt over

the last few years. And I understand the policy of making every school

and Academy is difficult, I take your point, but you said every

secondary school and most primaries will be free schools or an Academy.

It is not that different from where the Government wants to end up, is

it? You are taking my comments out of context. I was talking about

Labour's policy at the next election in that circumstance, and my point

is that we have got to look anew at what is the accountability framework

for all schools? How do we make sure there are sufficient places in our

schools, that we have raising standards in our schools, we have

sufficient school improvement support for our schools, and we have

proper accountability of some of these Academy chains of which we are

seeing many more problems arising with their accountability. That is

what I will be looking at. In the short term, I will be fighting tooth

and nail the Government's plans to force good and outstanding schools

against their wishes to become academies. Jeremy Corbyn has

described academise a share -- described... Jeremy said lots of

things about the forced programme. Is it asset stripping or not? In

some cases it can be. The key question is does it meet the test of

school improvement? There is mixed evidence of whether it leads to

school improvement, as the education select committee have found. The

second question is does it give schools freedom and autonomy? How

can that be the case if you are forcing a school against its wish to

be an Academy. That is not real autonomy. And the first test is

around accountability and there are some very real issues there. Some

might call that asset stripping. If our state system is being asset

stripped as your leader claims, that would be really serious so is he

right or wrong? There have been examples of financial mismanagement

in some Academy chains, we have seen those recently where directors have

been paying themselves double money by setting up arms length

organisations that they are also paying themselves from so there are

issues of financial probity which is why both Jeremy and I have been

arguing that there needs to be a much more robust financial

accountability structure. He seems to be against academies altogether.

We have got exactly the same view about this, Jeremy and I have worked

closely on these issues and that is that there are some excellent

Academy schools, there are also some excellent community schools. This

tired argument of pitting one school type against another is frankly

over. What we have got to be addressing is ensuring we have good

quality teachers and head teachers in all of our schools, something the

Government is failing to do. We've got to make sure schools have

adequate resources, and they are facing real terms cuts to their

budgets, and make sure we have enough places for all of our

children. There is a crisis in school places and teacher shortages.

Very interesting ground which you have gone over before. I want to

show you an advert gone up for a new media spokesperson for Jeremy

Corbyn. There is a fixed term contract for Jeremy Corbyn, leader

of the Labour Party, running from December 2016 or when he ceases to

be leader, whichever is sooner. Which do you think will be sooner? I

haven't seen the advert but Jeremy has only been a leader for a few

months. OK, you're not going to tell me which would be sooner? We are

supporting him in his job and I'm not going to comment on that. Very

well. Thank you very much. The party views on Europe

and immigration are well-known, but voters may not know

what Nigel Farage's Purple Army thinks about issues

like recycling and council tax. Ukip, which had never held more

than a handful of local election seats before,

achieved its first major breakthrough in 2013,

when they gained 139 seats. The following year they increased

their total by another 161 seats, performing particularly well

in parts of Essex. While in 2015, on the same day

as the general election, In that set of elections,

Ukip won control of Thanet Council in Kent, the first time the party

took control of a local council, But within six months they had

lost overall control, after five councillors left Ukip,

saying they were unhappy with the council's lack of action

on a manifesto pledge to reopen So, 2016 is the last year

in the four-yearly cycle Will they be able to

maintain the momentum? We're joined now by the party's

deputy chairman, Diane James. Welcome to the programme. You have

got your referendum running strongly in the news, immigration is a huge

issue as well. What would be a good result for Ukip in these local

elections? Certainly to retain the 20 seat we will be defending this

time, but also building on that. We are fielding 1400 candidates out of

the 2700 that will be available across the country. We are also

fielding candidates in the big Assembly elections - Stormont,

Holyrood... And the police crime Commissioner. Are you looking to

gain? Of course, we wouldn't be doing anything otherwise. Populist

and anti-EU parties are gaining ground right across Europe so if you

don't gain ground there must be serious doubts in this climate about

your long-term future. We are looking to gain ground and increase

the number of councillors we have got as well as membership of all of

the assemblies I have referred to. The momentum is behind the populist

parties, but certainly behind the Eurosceptic parties because what

they do say and they share in terms of issues is the negative impact of

EU membership is having on particularly for instance just

trying to plan in terms of infrastructure and other aspects.

And yet when you get a foothold in local government it doesn't go very

well. You controlled Thanet, within six months you had lost overall

control. You are still just a protest party. We are not just a

protest party. The issue you are referring to is Manston airport,

very difficult in terms of the overall plans for that from not only

just the local authority but also the county council level so we don't

actually have control of Kent County Council. I'm sure if we had we could

have had a lot more import there. Equally there is this issue of a

local problem and individuals coming into government, no matter which

party they represent, understanding how slowly sometimes decisions can

be reached. Look at Boston Borough Council, you did well there in 2015.

Then one Ukip councillor was suspended, the party split down the

middle because you couldn't agree on a leader, six councils carried on

under the Ukip banner, six others under the Ukip Group, it is a

shambles. You always pick up on the bad news to do with Ukip but you

never pick up on the bad news to do with other parties. This morning you

reeled off a series of good examples, but you have you raised

any of the councillors from Labour across the country who have had to

be suspended for serious reasons. Some decided to walk away from the

Ukip banner for whatever reasons, but in terms of the individuals who

have been suspended or had to stand down, that is the different ball

game and I would like you to be fair in tackling that.

My job is to put the tough questions each party. Why would people vote

for a party that might not even have a reason to exist after the

referendum? We will have a reason to exist because no one else will hold

David Cameron to account and make sure it happens. That is my view. In

terms of our counsellors, bear in mind we are the only party out there

that does not flip councillors. Probably just as well! It sounds

like you cannot be whipped. I am not into dominatrix stuff. I'm talking

about politics! It is something our cabinet ministers are accused of the

moment. There is real disquiet amongst the electorate that they

want to vote for somebody, and then they see the systems that are in

place, cabinet rather than committee, backbenchers who find

themselves in a situation where they can't contribute to decisions. And

we are talking about incursions into the green belt, housing targets and

academies. This is the sort of issue that I Ukip councillor who is not

whipped will be able to represent their community. Even if we leave

the EU, Ukip continues? Yes, it does. We will talk to the

Conservatives and Liberal Democrats about the local elections in England

next week. We say goodbye to viewers

in Scotland, who leave us now Low and welcome to the Sunday

politics Wales. Today: Both the Conservatives and Labour have

released their manifestos and this week. We will be looking at what the

smaller parties have to offer. It has been another busy week of

campaigning ahead of that election. All the major parties have their

manifestos, available for you to read at your pleasure if you like

that sort of thing. Last week, we heard from Plaid Cymru, the Lib Dems

about their policies. First, the highlights of the campaign week.

It was another roaring week on the campaign trail as two more

The Tories launch their manifesto in Wrexham at the company that makes

This is no game for the Tories, who say Labour would

The first challenge, though, is to get the public engaged.

It is our job, our role and it must be our passion to make sure we

energise those voters to come out and vote

Andrew RT Davis says it's time for a change and only one party

I hope the voters will vote for the party that

will deliver for them in the National Assembly

for Wales and that party is the Welsh Conservatives.

Or we can continue with 17 years of Labour's managed decline.

I don't think anyone wants that managed decline to continue.

At a college in Nantgarw near Caerphilly,

students were being marshalled into place for Labour's launch.

And then, at last, and with everyone ready, Labour got on with it.

It is absolutely fantastic to be with you this

The man who wrote the manifesto was full of energy,

which was a little surprising given how busy he has been.

I have travelled more than 4,000 miles, met with thousands upon

thousands of people, as we have discussed and explored

Political parties shouldn't think they have a monopoly on wisdom and

that means you have to talk to people

on the ground, in health, and education,

in job creation, and then take their ideas, acknowledge them

of course, and then make sure those ideas can be taken forward.

They say politics is a dirty business.

Absolutely delighted to do something mucky and messy.

And on a visit to Brecon, Lib Dem leader Tim Farron wasn't afraid to

His party got a pasting at last year's general election

and, with further losses predicted at the Assembly election as well,

the party and its leader in Wales face a race against time

You've got to accept the position that you are in.

I am always a glass-half-full person.

I think, what is the purpose of our party?

And our party is there to be the party that is on the side

of the individuals, not on the side of the vested interests.

To speak for people's values, not to play to one client group.

And to try to stand up for fresh, authentic government.

The parties know that older people tend to turn out to vote so it is

perhaps with that in mind that, in Llandudno this week,

Plaid Cymru said it would scrap care fees

for the elderly and people with dementia.

It is important to break down the barriers between health

and social care and the way to do that is integrate

the service is fully and also get rid of

the artificial historic divide between charging for social

and dementia care and not charging for health care.

As for Ukip, well, look who has turned up here in Welshpool

Yes, Nigel Farage visited Mid Wales, where he met local

shopkeepers and did a spot of phone canvassing as well.

There you go, that surprised you, didn't it?

The Ukip leader seemed to enjoy himself.

We had it in Inverness yesterday where you meet a lot of people

and have fun and then a couple of people abuse you and you

think, oh, that is what the media will show, but actually

But real politics is clearly thirsty work and Mr Farage was soon ready

for his obligatory photo drinking a pint.

With another week's campaigning over, here's to the next.

As we heard, the Conservatives unveiled their manifesto this week

and Susie Davis is here to talk about it. You wrote the manifesto,

that's fair to say, isn't it? It is not just the work of one

person, a lot of other people put work into it.

Take the credit. One of the things that we cannot see in the manifesto

is a lot of costings and her things well exactly work. You see will

create 50,000 jobs over the next five years. I will you do that? How

does a government create 50,000 jobs?

It is about creating the conditions for the economy to thrive as well as

putting in the programmes and Pritchard schemes that would have

been talking about in depth in the manifesto. Apprenticeship schemes.

We were talking about a mixture of large enterprises and small

businesses and creating new skill sets.

But you don't see how many apprenticeships.

We haven't set limits. We are conscious that there are only 200

thousand small businesses in Wales -- 2000.

We won't know whether you have succeeded or not cause you haven't

set a target. We are working with both ends of the

industry spectrum and have a small enterprise industry. People of all

ages are able to take up apprenticeships that are meaningful

and not just sausage machine figures.

Another set of figures, treble the childcare allowance. An extra 20

hours a week. That would affect 70,000 children. What is the

costing? That will cost roughly 55 million a

year. It will cost less in later years because we will have to train

up childcare professionals during this period. That is already paid

for. We have made this clear some weeks due to the changes being made

in Jewish and fees. No figure on the investment in

health service. How much more? The promises to

protect the hell service budget -- health service budget. What we have

committed to is that the money coming down from the health portion

will be used for the health budget. There are school permitting changes

within the service because we wanted to be more efficient.

In the last couple of weeks we have heard of potential 1 billion a year

savings that the Conservatives have identified in the NHS budget. Is

that what you are looking at? This is about something else.

You can do that in Wrexham has said it quite recently.

What he identified was a report from some years ago that identified ?1

billion of savings. That is not included in our costings. There is

potentially even more for the health service to use for the things it

needs now. One policy you have in the

manifesto, funding schools directly. Saving ?150 million a year. Is that

right? Savings is the wrong word. That is a

redeployment of money to go direct to schools. Rather than two

consortiums. At the moment local authorities take

a slice and pass it on but you say give it all to schools.

We are seeing local authorities can keep some of it because services

like school transport and special needs pupils may need a more

regionalised thing but more money will be going to schools.

How much? 156 million.

What were the schools have to do with that additional money?

They can either choose to use the local authority but they will have a

choice. You will be losing the consortium which to placate the work

of local authorities in ensuring excellence and standards.

You will be scrapping the tuition fee which is very generous to

students from Wales. They get around by thousand every year from the

Welsh Government. You are proposing to pay around half the rent every

year. That is a lot less than they get at the moment. It's a lot less

generous to Welsh students. Is that correct?

It's about what kind of debt they would prefer to have. At the moment

it is long-term and you don't hear back until you are certain amount.

It doesn't affect your credit rating.

But it will be more. It is a manageable debt. But if you

get another loan and cannot pay it back to fix your credit rating in

the future. And some students are pushed into going to payday lenders

which is a foolish thing to do. They will be taking three times more

than they are currently taking. Ayew happy with that?

Students understand have to take on some debt for the prospects of their

future but they are not taking on the cost of learning but the of

living. I can tell you from sitting in the

Assembly previously that one of the things I get some people's nurses

when the health minister says that as a matter for the health board.

What is going to change? They will take over the direct

accountability for the local health boards. Accountability between

patients and the board themselves. We tried something similar in

Scotland and ditched it because it didn't work. Why would not work they

are but work year? There's no reason why it shouldn't

work. Families and patients can have somewhere to go that they do not

know at the moment. Instead it is faceless accountability at the

moment. It is very much for joining us.

We have heard a lot from the so-called bigger guns but there are

lots of smaller parties seeking your vote. None of them have yet to win a

seat in Cardiff Bay but they fight on. We have been speaking to the

parties fielding candidates in each of the five regions across Wales.

The 60 Assembly Members elected on 5th May will meet here

But if the Abolish The Welsh Assembly Party win seats,

they won't want to be here at all but will fight to close

The Assembly now wants more powers, they want more Assembly Members,

a pay rise, tax-raising powers and a separate legal system.

The Welsh Office and our 40 MPs in Westminster do the job perfectly

Anything that needs to be devolved, any issues, we say devolve it

The crisis in the steel industry has arguably overshadowed the Assembly

election campaign and focussed the minds of politicians and candidates.

The Welsh Communist Party wants the next Welsh Government

to nationalise the steel industry and are calling

on Labour supporters to give their second vote

The Communists argue that Labour won only two seats across all five

regions five years ago and, if Labour supporters want to see more

Socialists in the Assembly after 5th May, then they should vote

There's so much that could be done with a thoroughly modernised steel

industry but we don't have those resources at the moment.

Only the Communist Party in Wales is standing

in this election, not only for a Welsh Assembly and government

with real powers and resources to make a big difference,

but we believe that this needs to take place within a federal

Britain so that the wealth that is currently hoarded by the

wealthiest 10% of the population, to avoid paying their taxes, would be

redistributed to all the nations and regions and the peoples Britain.

The Monster Raving Loony Party have launched a so-called manic-festo

Policies include re-routing any more M4 relief roads to boost

tourism in Porthcawl, Tenby, and even

If they win seats here in Cardiff Bay, they would work to

introduce mermaids to the bay itself and they are calling on people

We are offering an alternative for people and we say they usually

If you don't like what is being offered in the mainstream,

We will be on everybody's ballott paper down the bottom.

to vote for the Monster Raving Loony Party

with our great manifesto ideas that we have.

Several of the Monster Raving Loony Party's over the years have actually

been developed and brought through into mainstream politics.

We were the first party to consider whether

The first party to bring pets' passports

And the first party that has brought about independent radio.

So lots of our ideas, actually, they take time, but they do come

There are plenty of people and parties after your votes.

There is a full list on the BBC Wales election website.

In the last of our interviews with the main parties about the

manifestos, Liber's Carwyn Andrews is here. It is not a huge document.

110 pages in 2011 but this year just 24 pages with many pictures.

Why has it got shorter? We have gone digital first and that is how the

next government will be. Our manifesto is a digital manifesto and

we produced a shorter version for printing.

There are far fewer policy ideas than previous manifestos.

It is focused on a number of very important and exciting pledges.

Childcare is the most exciting offer in the UK. That goes beyond any

other offer from another party. Looking at other top line messages,

this new treatment fund to give that access to new drugs. The independent

body Nice decide whether drugs go into the NHS. What will change?

This is an important commitment and goes beyond what other parties are

promising. It repeatedly said it is not to buy drugs but about

treatments. We want to ensure that we are able to offer support to

people with life-threatening diseases, not just cancer, but also

that is about treatment. Through this fund, will be able to support

the health board and others in developing what is necessary.

Part of the problem is that patients from Wales have gone into England,

particularly cancer patients. There is a drug to be introduced later

this year and that was to be the case because there will be drugs in

England not available in Wales. Only for those drugs which are

approved by Nice. The process is in England are being

merged with the Nice process. People travel to Wales as well so it is not

a one-way street. We are putting in place a radical proposal for

treatment fund. It is not about the drugs, it's also about new

treatments that are come on stream. My point is very specific, that

those people who have had to travel to England to get those cancer

drugs. Have to do the same. There are

cancer drugs available in Wales that are not available in England. You

should not why the Conservative began that on this issue. Recruiting

a new fund that will be for broader than the scheme and Ingrid which has

failed and is being closed that down.

-- closed in England. Apprenticeships, of the past five

years to have construed on all the higher level qualifications.

Why the switch? We have been very successful. We have had better

apprenticeship levels. We are proud of that.

Why change it? We believe there is a gap and people

want to retrain. That has always been the case.

We met people at the college the other day at different stages in

wanting to go into. It is a major step, a radical step, and as proving

popular with employers. The tuition free grant sees the

Welsh Government pay ?5,000 towards expenses. We have discussed the

merits and otherwise have that many times. In this manifesto, there is

hardly anything about what you will do in future. All you are seeing is

a better package and then offer in England. But didn't do anything they

are so are seeing better than nothing.

Let me give you this commitment. We know that Plaid Cymru will make

students pay ?9,000 tuition fees. We will not do that. We will listen to

what the Diamond cap review has to say. The First Minister does not

like the idea of means testing. What we are going to do is taking forward

the scheme that we have which is saved Welsh graduates ?22,000 hit on

average. We are making a commitment we will not charge will students

?9,000 in a university fees unlike Plaid Cymru.

What you're seeing as there is a review coming back in September and

you will be to see what that review tells you to do.

The higher education sector needs to be able to demonstrate...

But you are not... We know that the scheme we have at

the moment is cheaper than we feel that the moment when we launched it.

It is for others to make the case for change and we will look at the

review. We need to be able to demonstrate that Wells students can

study every subject. You can discuss the merits or

otherwise of other parties and you can discuss, I would rather we

don't. But they at least have policies on offer.

We need to see what the review has to say. We will consider that. We

have said we will not ask students to pay ?9,000.

The review published hundreds of pages of statistics and documents, a

treasure trove of information. It is therefore used to base your policies

on but you're shying away from information.

I don't think we are. We don't know what the UK Government are going to

do in regards to funding in England. It may be that the University of

Bristol and Manchester is able to charge higher fees. That would

affect the body. But we are not going to make wealth should -- Welsh

students pay ?9,000. That is all from us. Don't forget

the special leaders debate on Wednesday. For now, that is all from

me. Thank you for watching and now time to

me. Thank you for watching and now time

You can see a full list of all the candidates standing

in the Mayoral election on the screen now.

And further information is available on the BBC London website.

Now, the Home Secretary has made her first major intervention

She was on Andrew Marr this morning, speaking up for Remain.

She was asked how immigration could be controlled if we stay

Nobody who has heard me over the last few

years can doubt that I

think we need to control immigration.

Controlling it is hard, and it's hard whether we are inside the

It's hard dealing with EU migration or

Harder to deal if we are still inside.

Immigration is going to

carry on rising very sharply if we stay inside the EU, isn't it?

The thing about immigration is, it is

as a government, say, we are going to change this one rule

and suddenly the result is going to be what we want.

You have constantly to be working at it, which is exactly what

The Home Secretary having trouble getting a clear-cut answer. The

Leave campaign thinks immigration has its strongest card, why isn't it

making more of it? I think it is a while since the strong card within a

certain group of the electorate, it also backfires with another one and

that has gone to the heart of a lot of disagreement that has been all

the way through the last few months between the rival Brexit camps. One

side of those camps thinks they should go very hard on immigration,

they think it is a banker for them, the other groups are actually this

deters as many people from our case as it attracts so there is a real

tension there. That may be the issue. My understanding is that

polling shows immigration really resonates with those who have

already made up their mind to leave but for those who are still not

sure, it doesn't get them to come on board. Yes, the levers of Vote Leave

-- leaders have been clear since the moment they set up shop that they

should talk about immigration, that if they defined their campaign on

immigration they would lose, simple as that because you are simply

talking to up to 30% of the electorate who have already made up

their minds. And Matthew Elliott has been clear all along their campaign

has got to be defined on the economy, on security, and they have

got to show their option is the safest option and that staying

inside the EU is the risky one. They have headlines today saying the Home

Secretary has admitted we cannot have full control of our borders but

watch them, they will be moving back to Obama and the economy because

that is the area from which they only have a chance of winning. The

consensus view seems to be that it was a bad week for Leave. What will

they do now? I think they need to make some impact with something

spectacular, different. You feel they have run out of momentum. They

had a terrific dart, with huge names like Michael Gove and Boris Johnson,

and that then seemed to be it. Every week the Remain campaign have

treated this like a Lynton Crosby style general election campaign.

They are totally owning the agenda, which begs the question why put out

Theresa May today? Why would you want to slip that in? Maybe because

they think the Obama coverage will cover that up. I think Leave Haft to

concentrate on immigration now. Do you think that puts people off as

well? It may well but it is their strongest suit and they do have a

huge amount of support on what they are saying about immigration across

the country. If you have one big weapon, you have got to keep firing

it. Were you surprised that Dominic Rabb didn't just rule out the idea

of visas? I was actually, I'm not sure how that will go down among the

Leave campaigners. I think it will be picked up that the Remain

campaign will run with that, but to follow on from what Tom was saying

about what Leave should do this week, I think they have got to nail

this ongoing claim that the alt campaigners cannot explain what out

looks like. It is very lazy criticism but quite an effective one

that they cannot come up with some kind of model and it is difficult

for them to prove a negative. But they need to start some kind of

language which ridicules the suggestion that they cannot come up

with a comparable... This is Norway or whatever. I think you need more

Michael Gove and less Boris Johnson. Michael Gove made a significant

speech in the week in which he said the optimistic case is to leave the

European Union because he was saying Britain could have a great future

outside the European Union and the Remain people are pessimistic

because they are saying we have got to be part of this club. What do you

get from Boris Johnson? Raising questions about whether he was being

racist against the President of the United States. Voters don't like

that. What voters like is optimism and substance, and that is what

Michael Gove is doing. Also their big problem, absolutely part of

their strategy is not to spell out what Leave looks like in any detail

because they don't want to make the same mistake that Alex Salmond did,

they want to give no detail at all. Then nobody can never come back

about it. Michael Howard said it won't be the Norway deal, it won't

be the Swiss deal, it will be the British Steel, the fifth largest

economy in the world. It takes the president of the US to put trade

deals into the headlines, you don't often get that, and he said if we

weren't part of an EU deal, we would go to the back of the queue. Tom,

you think he has already stepped back a bit from that quite blunt

statement? It was interesting, the Hugh Edwards interview, which was

very saccharine stuff. It got some good news headlines. I would like to

see you up against him. If we have a special relationship, why do we go

to the back of the queue? And Obama pointedly didn't be that. I think it

was a misstep. I was sitting in the Foreign Office behind Number Ten

officials on Friday when trade started coming up and you could see

them shuffling. When he said the back of the queue comment, they

turned around and said that is your intro, which made me think they

didn't know that was coming either. I wonder if it isn't a paper tiger.

The fact is there is no deal between the EU and the USA. They started

talks in 2013, they are meeting in New York tomorrow for the 13th

round, speaking to contacts in Washington they say there is no

prospect of any ratification of the deal by this Congress. We will be

lucky to get it signed before Obama steps down in January 2017, and

there are now protests growing everywhere. We have pictures of

demonstrations in Germany yesterday, there is a head of steam building up

against it and it may not even happen. The hope of the Brexit

campaigners will be that this Barack Obama comment backfires. Even if

there were a queue, are we to really believe America is so short of

tremendous negotiators that there is a limited number of personal

available to actually make further deals? I think it is an extremely

thin argument. Additionally we know that America sells us something like

$56 billion worth of goods, are we really to believe they will somehow

throw with that to the wind? Even without free trade, we are the

big as in -- the biggest investors in America. There are 1 million

Brits employed by American companies here. The US election campaign has

become increasingly isolationist or stop not just Bernie Sanders and

Donald Trump, or even Ted Cruz, but now Hillary Clinton has come out

against the Pacific trade deal, which is ahead of the queue -- is

ahead of the European one. The problem with Clinton is that it was

on her husband's watch that NAFTA was signed, the North American Free

Trade Agreement. The argument is that all those jobs in Detroit went

south to Mexico, and the Clinton brand has been badly damaged by

that. She has always had to walk away from that. I don't believe that

Hillary Clinton as president would be isolationist. The thing about

Arak Obama is that this queue may not exist, but the United States

likes to deal with regional blocs, not individual countries. One of the

big challenges for Brexit is that the EU minus us is 440 million

people. How important are we? There is no doubt that Obama's impact here

will be big, because the Leave campaign say, when we leave the EU,

we will replace any lost trade with greater trade deals with other

countries that the EU stopped us from signing, such as America pulls

up or bar masses, no you want. Hillary Clinton says, you certainly

won't. -- President Obama says. As I look at it, it is on both the

Democratic left and the Republic right, that it may become more

difficult not to Britain but for anyone to do trade deals with

America. America does what is in its interest. The most significant thing

about Arak Obama 's remarks was homelike king Ince bestial qualities

our relationship is. Didn't he make a joke about us having to sell an

electric chair to the United States? The great height of our special

relationship was all about pounds, shillings and pence. Someone who

follows -- as someone who follows trade talks, I am grateful to the

president for bringing it to the front of the agenda.

The junior doctors' strike is due this week. It is only in England,

but the Labour Party has come up with a suggested compromise, let's

pilot the plan. There we go, Labour steps in to halt doctors' strike.

People might think, that is not a bad idea, let's see if it works. I

would be surprised if Jeremy Hunt went for that. He would say, here is

the deal, you must accept it. The BMA and the Labour Party don't

really want this to go ahead. The second they start withdrawing

doctors and people start dying because of it, they are in trouble

in terms of public support. It is worth asking why they did not pilot

it first. Jeremy Corbyn is in a corner on this, for all the right

reasons. He agrees that a seven-day service is needed. I think the

junior doctors have done themselves no favours by being as dogmatic as

they have been. Mr Hunt hasn't done himself any favours, either. He

believes that what he is doing is in the interest of patients. I expect

him to hold the line. Syriza May was saying, it is being piloted with

20,000 -- to Reza may.... The Home Secretary is saying it is being

piloted with 20,000 doctors. I am not sure that Jeremy Hunt would want

an independent forensic examination. Do you agree that if the strike goes

ahead it starts to go the Government's way? Absolutely. Jeremy

Hunt knows that he just needs to sit pretty and not worry too much about

these last-minute offers. Tomorrow will be a fascinating day. We will

find out before the strike begins which side will blink. If we are

looking at a complete withdrawal of labour from doctors,, it is

something that has never happened before in this country and it could

be disastrous in terms of deaths. The blame will fall squarely on the

shoulders of the doctors. We shall see. We have marked this week as

another bad week for Remain. We should market every week and -- we

should mark it every week and see what happens.

We'll be back at the usual time of 11am next Sunday,

and the Daily Politics is on at lunchtime all next week

Remember - if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.