Browse content similar to 18/03/2018. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning, everyone, and welcome
to the Sunday Politics. | 0:00:39 | 0:00:40 | |
I'm Sarah Smith.
will provide your essential briefing | 0:00:40 | 0:00:44 | |
on everything that's moving
and shaking in the | 0:00:44 | 0:00:46 | |
world of politics. | 0:00:46 | 0:00:49 | |
The Foreign Secretary accuses Russia
of "smug sarcasm, denial, | 0:00:49 | 0:00:52 | |
obfuscation and delay" in relation
to the Salisbury poisoning case. | 0:00:52 | 0:00:54 | |
As the diplomatic dispute continues,
where will this crisis go next? | 0:00:54 | 0:00:59 | |
Police launch a murder
inquiry in to the death | 0:00:59 | 0:01:02 | |
of another Russian exile. | 0:01:02 | 0:01:06 | |
We speak to the Chair of
the Home Affairs Select Committee. | 0:01:06 | 0:01:09 | |
Should transgender women be included
on Labour's all-women short lists? | 0:01:09 | 0:01:13 | |
The party postpones
a final decision. | 0:01:13 | 0:01:15 | |
While a government consultation
on changing the law | 0:01:15 | 0:01:18 | |
appears to be on hold. | 0:01:18 | 0:01:19 | |
Has the debate on transgender
rights become toxic? | 0:01:19 | 0:01:26 | |
Also coming up:
The ups and downs of two years as | 0:01:26 | 0:01:32 | |
Welsh secretary, and market in your
diaries. Another devolution landmark | 0:01:32 | 0:01:35 | |
on the way. | 0:01:35 | 0:01:41 | |
to make sense of all the big
stories: | 0:01:44 | 0:01:49 | |
Matt Zarb-Cousin, Isabel Oakeshott
and | 0:01:49 | 0:01:52 | |
Now, Russia's Vladimir Putin has
already been out this | 0:01:52 | 0:01:54 | |
morning to cast his vote
in the Presidential elections. | 0:01:54 | 0:01:56 | |
We'll be expecting the result
in the Presidential elections. | 0:01:56 | 0:01:58 | |
but you can probably guess
who the frontrunner is. | 0:01:58 | 0:02:01 | |
It comes at the end of a week
in which UK-Russia relations turned | 0:02:01 | 0:02:04 | |
positively sub-zero. | 0:02:04 | 0:02:07 | |
President Putin. | 0:02:07 | 0:02:08 | |
President Putin. | 0:02:08 | 0:02:11 | |
Is Russia behind the poisoning
of Sergei Skripal? | 0:02:11 | 0:02:13 | |
This week the finger of blame
for the Salisbury attack was | 0:02:13 | 0:02:16 | |
pointed firmly in one direction. | 0:02:16 | 0:02:19 | |
what actually happened | 0:02:20 | 0:02:21 | |
there and then we'll talk about it. | 0:02:21 | 0:02:25 | |
A deadline imposed by
the British government | 0:02:25 | 0:02:28 | |
calling on the Russians to provide
answers came and went. | 0:02:28 | 0:02:30 | |
The Prime Minister headed
to the Commons to update MPs. | 0:02:30 | 0:02:33 | |
They have treated the use
of a military grade nerve agent | 0:02:33 | 0:02:35 | |
in Europe with sarcasm,
contempt and defiance. | 0:02:35 | 0:02:41 | |
The only conclusion, she declared,
was that the Russian state | 0:02:43 | 0:02:48 | |
was responsible for the nerve agent
attack on the Russian double agent | 0:02:48 | 0:02:51 | |
Sergei Skripal and his
daughter Yulia. | 0:02:51 | 0:02:53 | |
23 Russian diplomats based
here accused of being spies are to | 0:02:53 | 0:02:56 | |
be kicked out of the country. | 0:02:56 | 0:02:58 | |
Moscow responded by
expelling 23 British | 0:02:58 | 0:03:00 | |
embassy staff. | 0:03:00 | 0:03:05 | |
UK-Russia relations are well
and truly in the deep freeze. | 0:03:05 | 0:03:08 | |
The Prime Minister's
response to the crisis has | 0:03:08 | 0:03:10 | |
won her some new fans. | 0:03:10 | 0:03:11 | |
Hello. | 0:03:11 | 0:03:13 | |
She got flowers and fist bumps
in Salisbury on Thursday. | 0:03:13 | 0:03:16 | |
The Defence Secretary had his own
idiosyncratic message for Moscow. | 0:03:16 | 0:03:19 | |
Frankly, Russia should go
away, it should shut up. | 0:03:19 | 0:03:23 | |
Go away, it should shut up. | 0:03:23 | 0:03:26 | |
The Foreign Secretary
escalated the row by going | 0:03:26 | 0:03:30 | |
further and directly accusing
Vladimir Putin of personally | 0:03:30 | 0:03:33 | |
ordering the poisoning. | 0:03:33 | 0:03:34 | |
Our quarrel is with Putin's
Kremlin and with his | 0:03:34 | 0:03:38 | |
decision, and we think it
overwhelmingly likely that it was | 0:03:38 | 0:03:43 | |
his decision, to direct
the use of a nerve agent. | 0:03:43 | 0:03:46 | |
Convention dictates
that parties often come | 0:03:46 | 0:03:48 | |
together on major foreign policy
issues but Jeremy Corbyn is not a | 0:03:48 | 0:03:51 | |
conventional politician. | 0:03:51 | 0:03:55 | |
How has she responded to the Russian | 0:03:55 | 0:03:57 | |
government's request for a sample
of the agent used in the Salisbury | 0:03:57 | 0:04:01 | |
attack to run its own tests? | 0:04:01 | 0:04:06 | |
Shameful! | 0:04:06 | 0:04:08 | |
That did not go down
too well with some | 0:04:08 | 0:04:11 | |
of his own MPs who tabled a motion
expressing their support for the | 0:04:11 | 0:04:14 | |
Prime Minister's response. | 0:04:14 | 0:04:15 | |
But Mr Corbyn held
his line, arguing in | 0:04:15 | 0:04:17 | |
Friday's Guardian that we ought not
to discount the possibility that | 0:04:17 | 0:04:19 | |
Russian mafia gangs could have
carried out the attack. | 0:04:19 | 0:04:24 | |
Labour frontbenchers
not exactly been | 0:04:24 | 0:04:27 | |
toeing that line. | 0:04:27 | 0:04:30 | |
We fully support the Government's
action because we | 0:04:30 | 0:04:32 | |
hold Russia responsible. | 0:04:32 | 0:04:33 | |
There is no alternative
explanation other than | 0:04:33 | 0:04:35 | |
that responsibility
lies with Russia. | 0:04:35 | 0:04:38 | |
The US, France and Germany issued
a joint statement of support | 0:04:38 | 0:04:41 | |
for the UK. | 0:04:41 | 0:04:41 | |
It's a very sad situation. | 0:04:41 | 0:04:44 | |
It certainly looks like
the Russians were behind it. | 0:04:44 | 0:04:45 | |
Something that should
never ever happen. | 0:04:45 | 0:04:48 | |
Today is election day in Russia. | 0:04:48 | 0:04:53 | |
And this crisis seems unlikely
to hurt Putin's chances of | 0:04:53 | 0:04:55 | |
re-election as Russia's President. | 0:04:55 | 0:05:00 | |
So to pick up some of that news | 0:05:00 | 0:05:02 | |
So to pick up some of that news | 0:05:02 | 0:05:03 | |
Lucy, later this week the National
Security Council will meet to talk | 0:05:03 | 0:05:09 | |
about what further action the UK
Government Meite, they briefed the | 0:05:09 | 0:05:13 | |
about what further action the UK
BBC there is more in the locker, | 0:05:13 | 0:05:15 | |
that was the phrase the useful
support any idea what they might do | 0:05:15 | 0:05:17 | |
next? There is a whole suite of
options available to the government, | 0:05:17 | 0:05:20 | |
the idea of clamp-down on visas for
dubious Russian businessmen and | 0:05:20 | 0:05:24 | |
dubious Russian businessmen and
their allies wanting to travel to | 0:05:24 | 0:05:26 | |
the UK, there is talk on pulling the
the UK, there is talk on pulling the | 0:05:26 | 0:05:29 | |
plug on RTE, the Kremlin backed
plug on RTE, the Kremlin backed | 0:05:29 | 0:05:33 | |
broadcaster with Ruth Davidson
calling for that they. The most | 0:05:33 | 0:05:36 | |
important action the government
could take is on the wealth, the | 0:05:36 | 0:05:39 | |
Kremlin gold, and money | 0:05:39 | 0:05:42 | |
could take is on the wealth, the
around the UK invested here by | 0:05:42 | 0:05:46 | |
Russian oligarchs are linked to the
Kremlin. Boss of people from Russian | 0:05:46 | 0:05:50 | |
politician stomach opposition | 0:05:50 | 0:05:51 | |
Kremlin. Boss of people from Russian
politicians who think would be the | 0:05:51 | 0:05:54 | |
most effective route. That's what
Labour are calling for and | 0:05:54 | 0:06:00 | |
most effective route. That's what
action the government will go in. | 0:06:00 | 0:06:01 | |
These are quite short-term measures.
These are quite short-term measures. | 0:06:01 | 0:06:04 | |
What we're looking on with Russia is
a much wider, long-term problem. | 0:06:04 | 0:06:07 | |
What a lot of people | 0:06:07 | 0:06:11 | |
a much wider, long-term problem.
circles talk about is a more | 0:06:11 | 0:06:11 | |
asymmetrical response, | 0:06:11 | 0:06:14 | |
circles talk about is a more
than in addition to the measures | 0:06:14 | 0:06:16 | |
Lucy has articulated, you need to | 0:06:16 | 0:06:17 | |
than in addition to the measures
look at the whole suite of things in | 0:06:17 | 0:06:20 | |
terms of the disinformation campaign
that Russia puts out, we need to | 0:06:20 | 0:06:23 | |
that Russia puts out, we need to
look at where we can niggle | 0:06:23 | 0:06:27 | |
that Russia puts out, we need to
by supporting Ukraine a bit, | 0:06:27 | 0:06:28 | |
supporting states like Azerbaijan
and a much more hybrid response, I | 0:06:28 | 0:06:34 | |
think. Matt Zarb-Cousin | 0:06:34 | 0:06:35 | |
and a much more hybrid response, I
has been a lot of discussion | 0:06:35 | 0:06:38 | |
and a much more hybrid response, I
Jeremy Corbyn's response to this | 0:06:38 | 0:06:38 | |
this week. I'm interested, you know
him well, give us an insight | 0:06:38 | 0:06:43 | |
this week. I'm interested, you know
what he is thinking. He supports the | 0:06:43 | 0:06:45 | |
Government's actions while not being
sure about the conclusion that the | 0:06:45 | 0:06:49 | |
Russian state was responsible. Why
support what | 0:06:49 | 0:06:53 | |
Russian state was responsible. Why
don't support the conclusion? I | 0:06:53 | 0:06:54 | |
think the Russian | 0:06:54 | 0:06:55 | |
don't support the conclusion? I
and the Labour Party recognises | 0:06:55 | 0:06:56 | |
and the Labour Party recognises
that. I think we all agree that it | 0:06:56 | 0:06:59 | |
isn't a proportionate response, it
goes nowhere near far enough if the | 0:06:59 | 0:07:02 | |
Russian state is culpable, to just
expel 23 diplomats and say to the | 0:07:02 | 0:07:06 | |
Royal family they are not going to
Royal family they are not going to | 0:07:06 | 0:07:09 | |
the World Cup. So they have to find
out obviously if the Russian state | 0:07:09 | 0:07:12 | |
is culpable, and then once they have
is culpable, and then once they have | 0:07:12 | 0:07:15 | |
the evidence for that then obviously
build that international coalition | 0:07:15 | 0:07:18 | |
where we can actually take
where we can actually take | 0:07:18 | 0:07:20 | |
meaningful action, not these
meaningful action, not these | 0:07:20 | 0:07:22 | |
tokenistic measures. Even closing | 0:07:22 | 0:07:25 | |
meaningful action, not these
down Russia's Russia Today emboldens | 0:07:25 | 0:07:26 | |
Putin, look at the West, they can
censor, he will say. What we really | 0:07:26 | 0:07:32 | |
Putin, look at the West, they can
have to do is go after Putin's kind | 0:07:32 | 0:07:36 | |
of circle. There is oligarchs here,
whether they are pro-or anti-Putin, | 0:07:36 | 0:07:40 | |
who have been allowed to settle here
and stow away their | 0:07:40 | 0:07:45 | |
who have been allowed to settle here
they have been affected by Putin. If | 0:07:45 | 0:07:46 | |
they are then affected by | 0:07:46 | 0:07:49 | |
they have been affected by Putin. If
we say you have to leave, then that | 0:07:49 | 0:07:51 | |
is a very powerful coalition you | 0:07:51 | 0:07:54 | |
we say you have to leave, then that
building against him. But Jeremy | 0:07:54 | 0:07:55 | |
Corbyn still isn't convinced that
the Russian state itself is | 0:07:55 | 0:07:58 | |
responsible. No, neither is the
government. He wouldn't back these | 0:07:58 | 0:08:04 | |
responsible. No, neither is the
actions until they were proved. It | 0:08:04 | 0:08:06 | |
would be naive, it would | 0:08:06 | 0:08:10 | |
actions until they were proved. It
difficult to build an international | 0:08:10 | 0:08:10 | |
coalition. Even the statement that
Germany France and the US | 0:08:10 | 0:08:15 | |
coalition. Even the statement that
the joint statement, said the nerve | 0:08:15 | 0:08:15 | |
the joint statement, said the nerve
agent was of a type developed by | 0:08:15 | 0:08:18 | |
the joint statement, said the nerve
Russia, not that it was developed by | 0:08:18 | 0:08:20 | |
Russia. It looks increasingly likely | 0:08:20 | 0:08:23 | |
Russia, not that it was developed by
that that nerve agent came | 0:08:23 | 0:08:24 | |
Russia, not that it was developed by
Russia and Russia have lost control | 0:08:24 | 0:08:25 | |
of it, or have used it maliciously, | 0:08:25 | 0:08:27 | |
Russia and Russia have lost control
but we don't know that yet and it's | 0:08:27 | 0:08:29 | |
very difficult to take action until
very difficult to take action until | 0:08:29 | 0:08:31 | |
we do. There is a kind of false
dichotomy here in | 0:08:31 | 0:08:37 | |
we do. There is a kind of false
somehow elements of Russian Mafia | 0:08:37 | 0:08:37 | |
might be responsible. Welcome | 0:08:37 | 0:08:39 | |
somehow elements of Russian Mafia
potentially they could be, but the | 0:08:39 | 0:08:41 | |
somehow elements of Russian Mafia
idea that the Russian Mafia | 0:08:41 | 0:08:43 | |
some way completely distinct from
idea that the Russian Mafia | 0:08:43 | 0:08:45 | |
some way completely distinct from
the Kremlin is a misunderstanding. | 0:08:45 | 0:08:47 | |
some way completely distinct from
In a sense, the Russian Mafia is in | 0:08:47 | 0:08:48 | |
extra typically linked to | 0:08:48 | 0:08:52 | |
In a sense, the Russian Mafia is in
Kremlin. They are a sort of | 0:08:52 | 0:08:53 | |
Kremlin. They are a sort of
paramilitary wing of the Kremlin so | 0:08:53 | 0:08:55 | |
it is a false dichotomy. Lucy,
it is a false dichotomy. Lucy, | 0:08:55 | 0:08:58 | |
Jeremy Corbyn has taken a lot | 0:08:58 | 0:09:00 | |
it is a false dichotomy. Lucy,
flak for his response this week. | 0:09:00 | 0:09:01 | |
it is a false dichotomy. Lucy,
Isn't it legitimate to be asking | 0:09:01 | 0:09:03 | |
these questions when, as Matt says,
even the French, US and German | 0:09:03 | 0:09:07 | |
governments don't seem this --
convinced this is state directed? | 0:09:07 | 0:09:13 | |
convinced this is state directed?
Early in the week we saw some level | 0:09:13 | 0:09:16 | |
of prevarication by Paris, Berlin
of prevarication by Paris, Berlin | 0:09:16 | 0:09:18 | |
and Washington and that has firmed
up a lot. I think the quite | 0:09:18 | 0:09:21 | |
unprecedented international joint
statement put out by those allies | 0:09:21 | 0:09:24 | |
and the UK goes a lot further than | 0:09:24 | 0:09:27 | |
statement put out by those allies
you say, Matt. I don't think it's as | 0:09:27 | 0:09:30 | |
equivocal as perhaps | 0:09:30 | 0:09:32 | |
you say, Matt. I don't think it's as
Some of the | 0:09:32 | 0:09:34 | |
you say, Matt. I don't think it's as
asks will kind of strike a chord | 0:09:34 | 0:09:36 | |
with much of the public. I think, in
particular, raising questions about | 0:09:36 | 0:09:42 | |
the intelligence and exactly what is
known is something that | 0:09:42 | 0:09:44 | |
the intelligence and exactly what is
be thinking about in light of the | 0:09:44 | 0:09:47 | |
2003 Iraq War and some of the
evidence being politically sexed up, | 0:09:47 | 0:09:52 | |
people want to know that that's not
people want to know that that's not | 0:09:52 | 0:09:56 | |
the case here. Briefly. We don't
know exactly how much Jeremy Corbyn | 0:09:56 | 0:10:00 | |
had access to in terms of | 0:10:00 | 0:10:03 | |
know exactly how much Jeremy Corbyn
be that the government... Boris | 0:10:03 | 0:10:05 | |
Johnson and the Defence Secretary
Gavin Williamson have gone much | 0:10:05 | 0:10:08 | |
Gavin Williamson have gone much | 0:10:08 | 0:10:09 | |
further and said... Boris Johnson
said it is Putin. Overwhelmingly | 0:10:09 | 0:10:11 | |
likely. Williamson said they should | 0:10:11 | 0:10:15 | |
said it is Putin. Overwhelmingly
shut up and go away, or whatever he | 0:10:15 | 0:10:17 | |
said. That suggests to me they are
either going off message or they | 0:10:17 | 0:10:20 | |
either going off message or they
have seen more evidence that perhaps | 0:10:20 | 0:10:23 | |
either going off message or they
Corbyn has not seen. These are | 0:10:23 | 0:10:25 | |
either going off message or they
questions we will explore throughout | 0:10:25 | 0:10:25 | |
the show and if you stay with | 0:10:25 | 0:10:27 | |
questions we will explore throughout
will talk to you throughout the | 0:10:27 | 0:10:29 | |
programme. | 0:10:29 | 0:10:30 | |
Well, let's stick with this story
because the Foreign Secretary has | 0:10:30 | 0:10:33 | |
been speaking on the Andrew
Marr Show this morning. | 0:10:33 | 0:10:35 | |
He was asked how the Government
could be certain that the Russian | 0:10:35 | 0:10:38 | |
Government was responsible
for the attack. | 0:10:38 | 0:10:39 | |
We actually have evidence within the
last ten years that | 0:10:39 | 0:10:46 | |
We actually have evidence within the
only been investigating the delivery | 0:10:46 | 0:10:46 | |
of nerve agents for the purposes of
assassination, but has also been | 0:10:46 | 0:10:53 | |
creating and stockpiling Novichok.
To the best of our knowledge, this | 0:10:53 | 0:10:55 | |
is a Russian-made nerve agent that
falls within the category Novichok, | 0:10:55 | 0:11:01 | |
made only by Russia. | 0:11:01 | 0:11:04 | |
I'm joined now by the Foreign Office
Minister Sir Alan Duncan. | 0:11:04 | 0:11:08 | |
Thank you for talking to us this
morning. Russia have responded, as | 0:11:08 | 0:11:12 | |
you know, to our expansion --
expulsion of 23 Russian diplomats by | 0:11:12 | 0:11:20 | |
closing the consulate in St
Petersburg. Is there a second phase | 0:11:20 | 0:11:24 | |
of government action that | 0:11:24 | 0:11:26 | |
Petersburg. Is there a second phase
to be reintroduced in order to take | 0:11:26 | 0:11:27 | |
Petersburg. Is there a second phase
this further? We have lots of | 0:11:27 | 0:11:31 | |
options. But this isn't just about
counting heads. This is really about | 0:11:31 | 0:11:38 | |
options. But this isn't just about
making clear to the world | 0:11:38 | 0:11:40 | |
options. But this isn't just about
of the great achievements of the | 0:11:40 | 0:11:41 | |
world since the Second World | 0:11:41 | 0:11:44 | |
of the great achievements of the
which is a convention to ban | 0:11:44 | 0:11:45 | |
which is a convention to ban
chemical weapons, has been | 0:11:45 | 0:11:47 | |
which is a convention to ban
And it is clearly traceable back to | 0:11:47 | 0:11:52 | |
a military grade nerve agent of
Russian origin. We said | 0:11:52 | 0:11:56 | |
a military grade nerve agent of
Russians either you did it directly | 0:11:56 | 0:11:58 | |
or you have lost control of this, | 0:11:58 | 0:12:00 | |
Russians either you did it directly
tell us which. They basically just | 0:12:00 | 0:12:01 | |
tell us which. They basically just | 0:12:01 | 0:12:04 | |
stuck their tongue out at us. Their
irresponsible response to this | 0:12:04 | 0:12:07 | |
points ever more to them as having
done this, and so the response that | 0:12:07 | 0:12:11 | |
we have done I think is | 0:12:11 | 0:12:14 | |
done this, and so the response that
proportionate. Yes, they | 0:12:14 | 0:12:15 | |
done this, and so the response that
responded back. But what | 0:12:15 | 0:12:18 | |
done this, and so the response that
more than anything else is not that | 0:12:18 | 0:12:18 | |
we now go into some kind of
tit-for-tat stuff by accounting | 0:12:18 | 0:12:21 | |
exact numbers and things like that,
is that we actually corral the whole | 0:12:21 | 0:12:26 | |
world to realise that Russia | 0:12:26 | 0:12:27 | |
is that we actually corral the whole
totally out of order here and that | 0:12:27 | 0:12:30 | |
the Chemical Weapons Convention has
been violated in a way that could do | 0:12:30 | 0:12:34 | |
enormous damage to the world in any
enormous damage to the world in any | 0:12:34 | 0:12:36 | |
country this happens to happen in,
country this happens to happen in, | 0:12:36 | 0:12:39 | |
in this case the UK, and that | 0:12:39 | 0:12:41 | |
country this happens to happen in,
what we will do. You are calling for | 0:12:41 | 0:12:42 | |
what we will do. You are calling for
a concerted international action, | 0:12:42 | 0:12:45 | |
what would that look like? We are
already very grateful to the very | 0:12:45 | 0:12:50 | |
clear response we have had from a
lot of countries. I | 0:12:50 | 0:12:55 | |
clear response we have had from a
Balkans over the weekend with | 0:12:55 | 0:12:56 | |
Balkans over the weekend with
countries like Macedonia and Kosovo, | 0:12:56 | 0:12:59 | |
and they were very, very clear in | 0:12:59 | 0:13:01 | |
countries like Macedonia and Kosovo,
their condemnation of this, because | 0:13:01 | 0:13:02 | |
they themselves are countries which
suffer from wider Russian | 0:13:02 | 0:13:06 | |
interference. But we have the EU
foreign ministers meeting tomorrow, | 0:13:06 | 0:13:12 | |
interference. But we have the EU
they will be a Prime Minister level | 0:13:12 | 0:13:12 | |
March European Council on Friday, we
have already had an open discussion | 0:13:12 | 0:13:16 | |
have already had an open discussion
in the UN at which the Russian | 0:13:16 | 0:13:19 | |
representative cut a very, very
lonely figure, and this is clearly a | 0:13:19 | 0:13:22 | |
representative cut a very, very
Russian violation of the Chemical | 0:13:22 | 0:13:23 | |
Weapons Convention and we will
cooperate with the Organisation for | 0:13:23 | 0:13:29 | |
the Prohibition of Chemical | 0:13:29 | 0:13:31 | |
cooperate with the Organisation for
to prove even further what we | 0:13:31 | 0:13:33 | |
cooperate with the Organisation for
to be the case. When it comes to | 0:13:33 | 0:13:35 | |
international action, a former UK | 0:13:35 | 0:13:37 | |
to be the case. When it comes to
ambassador to Russia, agrees with | 0:13:37 | 0:13:38 | |
to be the case. When it comes to
you that we need to take action | 0:13:38 | 0:13:40 | |
along with others and says the
sanctions imposed by the EU after | 0:13:40 | 0:13:45 | |
Crimea 2014 surprise | 0:13:45 | 0:13:48 | |
sanctions imposed by the EU after
continue to have an impact because | 0:13:48 | 0:13:49 | |
they were EU wide, but went on to | 0:13:49 | 0:13:51 | |
continue to have an impact because
say Brexit has made Britain's task | 0:13:51 | 0:13:54 | |
harder in appealing for EU | 0:13:54 | 0:13:57 | |
say Brexit has made Britain's task
solidarity this week and the kind of | 0:13:57 | 0:13:57 | |
international action you are looking | 0:13:57 | 0:14:00 | |
solidarity this week and the kind of
for. I think that is total nonsense, | 0:14:00 | 0:14:02 | |
for. I think that is total nonsense,
Brexit doesn't have an impact on | 0:14:02 | 0:14:06 | |
this and we are still part of the EU | 0:14:06 | 0:14:10 | |
and we operate EU sanctions
collaboratively and we're passing | 0:14:10 | 0:14:12 | |
collaboratively and we're | 0:14:12 | 0:14:12 | |
legislation through the House of
Commons which will give us | 0:14:12 | 0:14:15 | |
autonomous actions regime following
the departure from the EU, and we | 0:14:15 | 0:14:18 | |
will include in that what I hope
will be a firm | 0:14:18 | 0:14:25 | |
will include in that what I hope
statement from the House of Commons | 0:14:25 | 0:14:26 | |
that the Magnitsky clause, as people
have been campaigning for, will be | 0:14:26 | 0:14:30 | |
included in the sanctions and
anti-money-laundering Bill. And the | 0:14:30 | 0:14:34 | |
passage of this bill predated the
Salisbury incident, has always been | 0:14:34 | 0:14:41 | |
something we wanted the whole of the | 0:14:41 | 0:14:44 | |
Salisbury incident, has always been
House of Commons today, | 0:14:44 | 0:14:45 | |
Salisbury incident, has always been
something in a committee during | 0:14:45 | 0:14:45 | |
passage of the bill. Labour tried to
introduce an amendment to that | 0:14:45 | 0:14:51 | |
passage of the bill. Labour tried to
with the Magnitsky clause and you | 0:14:51 | 0:14:51 | |
wear minister in the Bill committee
that rejected those amendments two | 0:14:51 | 0:14:54 | |
weeks ago. -- you wear minister. I
answer the question before you ask | 0:14:54 | 0:15:01 | |
the question, which is we wanted it
to be done on the whole floor of the | 0:15:01 | 0:15:04 | |
house and in the phrasing of the
amendment it wasn't consistent with | 0:15:04 | 0:15:09 | |
some of the other parts | 0:15:09 | 0:15:12 | |
amendment it wasn't consistent with
-- you were a minister. We have an | 0:15:12 | 0:15:14 | |
amendment it wasn't consistent with
understanding that we hope will be a | 0:15:14 | 0:15:15 | |
cross-party | 0:15:15 | 0:15:18 | |
understanding that we hope will be a
a clear message to the world that | 0:15:18 | 0:15:18 | |
understanding that we hope will be a
the House of Commons, along with | 0:15:18 | 0:15:19 | |
countries who have done it already,
will be aligned with the Magnitsky | 0:15:19 | 0:15:24 | |
proposal, which campaigners | 0:15:24 | 0:15:30 | |
The Magnitsky powers would allow you
to take actions against individuals | 0:15:30 | 0:15:36 | |
guilty of gross human rights | 0:15:36 | 0:15:39 | |
to take actions against individuals
violations. That doesn't allow you | 0:15:39 | 0:15:40 | |
to attack the money of Putin allies
to attack the money of Putin allies | 0:15:40 | 0:15:45 | |
unless you can find them guilty of | 0:15:45 | 0:15:47 | |
to attack the money of Putin allies
gross human rights violations so it | 0:15:47 | 0:15:49 | |
to attack the money of Putin allies
wouldn't really allow you | 0:15:49 | 0:15:52 | |
to attack the money of Putin allies
to this attack, would it? Again, I'm | 0:15:52 | 0:15:53 | |
afraid you're totally wrong and
don't understand the wording of | 0:15:53 | 0:15:57 | |
afraid you're totally wrong and
bill because it is not only | 0:15:57 | 0:15:59 | |
afraid you're totally wrong and
human rights violations in the bill. | 0:15:59 | 0:16:01 | |
afraid you're totally wrong and
There are many purposes included | 0:16:01 | 0:16:02 | |
afraid you're totally wrong and
the list of things you can do under | 0:16:02 | 0:16:04 | |
the list of things you can do under
the legislation and it does include | 0:16:04 | 0:16:06 | |
what you have just described. But
the powers the Government has | 0:16:06 | 0:16:10 | |
what you have just described. But
already on going after things like | 0:16:10 | 0:16:12 | |
this, like unexplained wealth
orders, have been used only once | 0:16:12 | 0:16:15 | |
this, like unexplained wealth
since they were introduced. There | 0:16:15 | 0:16:18 | |
haven't been much evidence the
Government was serious | 0:16:18 | 0:16:23 | |
haven't been much evidence the
corrupt money brought in through | 0:16:23 | 0:16:25 | |
London. That's | 0:16:25 | 0:16:27 | |
corrupt money brought in through
legislation has only recently come | 0:16:27 | 0:16:27 | |
in and of course it's not | 0:16:27 | 0:16:29 | |
legislation has only recently come
politicians who | 0:16:29 | 0:16:31 | |
legislation has only recently come
decisions. There's a distinction | 0:16:31 | 0:16:32 | |
between the liberal democracy in
which we live, where judges on | 0:16:32 | 0:16:38 | |
between the liberal democracy in
law take their course from | 0:16:38 | 0:16:38 | |
law take their course from
politicians. And what we think is | 0:16:38 | 0:16:42 | |
law take their course from
happening in Russia, which is not a | 0:16:42 | 0:16:44 | |
law take their course from
real democracy, we are looking at a | 0:16:44 | 0:16:47 | |
pretty odd election taking place
pretty odd election taking place | 0:16:47 | 0:16:50 | |
today where Vladimir Putin | 0:16:50 | 0:16:52 | |
pretty odd election taking place
undoubtedly be supposedly re-elected | 0:16:52 | 0:16:52 | |
for the fourth time. That is a deep
distinction between our values and | 0:16:52 | 0:16:59 | |
bears. One of the great values we
have seen in the world is the | 0:16:59 | 0:17:02 | |
creation of the chemical weapons
Convention. Jeremy Corbyn has always | 0:17:02 | 0:17:07 | |
been the great disarm and here we
have a violation of the ideological, | 0:17:07 | 0:17:12 | |
have a violation of the ideological,
the sort of principled convention | 0:17:12 | 0:17:14 | |
that has been built up over many
decades, violated in our | 0:17:14 | 0:17:18 | |
that has been built up over many
country, which is why I think many | 0:17:18 | 0:17:20 | |
country, which is why I think many
young people are disappointed with | 0:17:20 | 0:17:25 | |
his response. Ben Wallace, | 0:17:25 | 0:17:26 | |
young people are disappointed with
security minister, | 0:17:26 | 0:17:27 | |
young people are disappointed with
allowed nasty individuals to come to | 0:17:27 | 0:17:30 | |
the City of London and launder | 0:17:30 | 0:17:32 | |
allowed nasty individuals to come to
illicit money. That sounds like an | 0:17:32 | 0:17:34 | |
allowed nasty individuals to come to
admission that until now | 0:17:34 | 0:17:36 | |
allowed nasty individuals to come to
Government hasn't been doing | 0:17:36 | 0:17:37 | |
allowed nasty individuals to come to
to tackle corrupt money in London. I | 0:17:37 | 0:17:41 | |
allowed nasty individuals to come to
think we are amassing the powers to | 0:17:41 | 0:17:42 | |
tackle exactly the kind of issue he
has identified, and indeed Ben | 0:17:42 | 0:17:48 | |
Wallace is the security | 0:17:48 | 0:17:50 | |
has identified, and indeed Ben
has been supporting this, pressing | 0:17:50 | 0:17:52 | |
has been supporting this, pressing
for it and administering it from the | 0:17:52 | 0:17:55 | |
Home Office point of view. We | 0:17:55 | 0:17:58 | |
for it and administering it from the
to make a proper distinction though | 0:17:58 | 0:17:59 | |
to make a proper distinction though
without compromising | 0:17:59 | 0:18:01 | |
to make a proper distinction though
between those who are guilty and | 0:18:01 | 0:18:03 | |
to make a proper distinction though
those who are not. Not every | 0:18:03 | 0:18:05 | |
oligarch is guilty and not every
rich Russian is necessarily a crony | 0:18:05 | 0:18:11 | |
of Putin and someone who | 0:18:11 | 0:18:14 | |
rich Russian is necessarily a crony
subject to sanctions so we need to | 0:18:14 | 0:18:15 | |
approach this without compromising
our values. But there is something | 0:18:15 | 0:18:19 | |
our values. But there is something
much more important than this, what | 0:18:19 | 0:18:21 | |
really matters is the world needs to | 0:18:21 | 0:18:24 | |
much more important than this, what
realise that if we allow chemical | 0:18:24 | 0:18:25 | |
weapons to slip into use any more
that's happened now, we will live in | 0:18:25 | 0:18:29 | |
weapons to slip into use any more
a much more dangerous world and one | 0:18:29 | 0:18:32 | |
weapons to slip into use any more
which is tearing up the rule | 0:18:32 | 0:18:36 | |
weapons to slip into use any more
throwing away the chemical weapons | 0:18:36 | 0:18:36 | |
Convention which has been in place
for so many decades, indeed it | 0:18:36 | 0:18:41 | |
Convention which has been in place
one of the | 0:18:41 | 0:18:43 | |
Convention which has been in place
achievements of the post war world | 0:18:43 | 0:18:44 | |
achievements of the post war world
that we put this in place so we have | 0:18:44 | 0:18:47 | |
to the robust in pointing the finger
at Russia and | 0:18:47 | 0:18:55 | |
to the robust in pointing the finger
by the use of chemical weapons is | 0:18:55 | 0:18:57 | |
by the use of chemical weapons is
simply not acceptable. Thank you for | 0:18:57 | 0:19:00 | |
Well, earlier this week the police
announced that they were launching | 0:19:00 | 0:19:02 | |
a murder inquiry in to the death
of another Russian businessman | 0:19:02 | 0:19:04 | |
living in Britain. | 0:19:04 | 0:19:05 | |
A pathologist's report says
Nikolai Glushkov died | 0:19:05 | 0:19:07 | |
of "compression to the neck"
after being found dead | 0:19:07 | 0:19:10 | |
at his home on Monday. | 0:19:10 | 0:19:10 | |
The Metropolitan Police say
there is no evidence to suggest | 0:19:10 | 0:19:13 | |
a link to the attempted murder
of Sergei and Yulia Skripal. | 0:19:13 | 0:19:15 | |
But the Home Office has announced it
will investigate a number | 0:19:15 | 0:19:18 | |
of other unexplained deaths
following the Skripal case. | 0:19:18 | 0:19:20 | |
Yvette Cooper is the Chair of
The Home Affairs Select Committee. | 0:19:20 | 0:19:26 | |
You specifically asked the Home
Secretary to investigate 14 other | 0:19:29 | 0:19:33 | |
deaths that you are worried may have | 0:19:33 | 0:19:36 | |
Secretary to investigate 14 other
had Russian involvement, do you have | 0:19:36 | 0:19:38 | |
much evidence for that? My concern
is that any area where there are | 0:19:38 | 0:19:43 | |
much evidence for that? My concern
allegations that there may have been | 0:19:43 | 0:19:47 | |
either Russian involvement or
suspicious circumstances that may | 0:19:47 | 0:19:50 | |
either Russian involvement or
need to be investigated should be, | 0:19:50 | 0:19:52 | |
either Russian involvement or
because I think we have to | 0:19:52 | 0:19:54 | |
either Russian involvement or
full facts. There was a BuzzFeed | 0:19:54 | 0:19:55 | |
investigation that made allegations
about 14 cases, there are other | 0:19:55 | 0:20:01 | |
investigation that made allegations
concerns raised about others. | 0:20:01 | 0:20:03 | |
investigation that made allegations
not for me to judge the individual | 0:20:03 | 0:20:05 | |
circumstances, my concern is these
cases, where there have been | 0:20:05 | 0:20:11 | |
circumstances, my concern is these
preliminary conclusions of suicide | 0:20:11 | 0:20:12 | |
or natural causes or accident, that
actually there may be further | 0:20:12 | 0:20:17 | |
evidence of more suspicious
circumstances, they should now be | 0:20:17 | 0:20:21 | |
reviewed by the Home | 0:20:21 | 0:20:23 | |
circumstances, they should now be
police. The Home Office have said | 0:20:23 | 0:20:24 | |
they will do that but if you look at
the the case of someone who died in | 0:20:24 | 0:20:32 | |
2012, Surrey police says they will
not reinvestigate so will they be | 0:20:32 | 0:20:38 | |
2012, Surrey police says they will
able to cover new evidence? I assume | 0:20:38 | 0:20:39 | |
able to cover new evidence? I assume
the Home Office will assure there is | 0:20:39 | 0:20:43 | |
able to cover new evidence? I assume
a review of all of these cases. The | 0:20:43 | 0:20:44 | |
Home Office Secretary will want to | 0:20:44 | 0:20:46 | |
a review of all of these cases. The
satisfy herself that every corner | 0:20:46 | 0:20:48 | |
has been looked into and | 0:20:48 | 0:20:50 | |
satisfy herself that every corner
been done properly and we get to the | 0:20:50 | 0:20:53 | |
satisfy herself that every corner
bottom of this. I do accept the | 0:20:53 | 0:20:55 | |
priority for them at | 0:20:55 | 0:20:57 | |
bottom of this. I do accept the
be this current investigation and | 0:20:57 | 0:21:00 | |
bottom of this. I do accept the
the current circumstances in | 0:21:00 | 0:21:00 | |
Salisbury and where those
investigations lead, but they will | 0:21:00 | 0:21:05 | |
need I think to follow up by | 0:21:05 | 0:21:08 | |
investigations lead, but they will
at these other cases as well. So you | 0:21:08 | 0:21:10 | |
have any doubt that | 0:21:10 | 0:21:13 | |
at these other cases as well. So you
Salisbury was directed by the | 0:21:13 | 0:21:15 | |
Russian state? I share the
conclusions | 0:21:15 | 0:21:19 | |
Russian state? I share the
and British government that it is | 0:21:19 | 0:21:22 | |
implausible the Russian state wasn't | 0:21:22 | 0:21:25 | |
and British government that it is
Jeremy Corbyn is wrong when he says | 0:21:25 | 0:21:27 | |
it is either the Russian state or a
chemical weapon that got | 0:21:27 | 0:21:34 | |
it is either the Russian state or a
control and into other people's | 0:21:34 | 0:21:35 | |
it is either the Russian state or a
hands? We don't | 0:21:35 | 0:21:37 | |
it is either the Russian state or a
individuals caused the attack and | 0:21:37 | 0:21:38 | |
how the nerve agent was | 0:21:38 | 0:21:41 | |
individuals caused the attack and
the country, we also don't know | 0:21:41 | 0:21:42 | |
the country, we also don't know
which bit of the Russian state was | 0:21:42 | 0:21:46 | |
particularly involved, but I | 0:21:46 | 0:21:47 | |
which bit of the Russian state was
the clear evidence, the way in which | 0:21:47 | 0:21:49 | |
the Russian government has been
behaving since this happened really | 0:21:49 | 0:21:55 | |
is not the behaviour of a government | 0:21:55 | 0:21:57 | |
behaving since this happened really
that is saying we weren't involved | 0:21:57 | 0:21:59 | |
and we want to help get to the
bottom of this because we take it | 0:21:59 | 0:22:03 | |
seriously. This morning the Russian
Embassy has been tweeting | 0:22:03 | 0:22:12 | |
Embassy has been tweeting pictures
of Hercule Poirot. So are you | 0:22:14 | 0:22:21 | |
embarrassed by Jeremy Corbyn saying
there isn't enough evidence to link | 0:22:21 | 0:22:25 | |
this to the Kremlin? This morning
this to the Kremlin? This morning | 0:22:25 | 0:22:28 | |
John McDonnell said we should
condemn the Russian government for | 0:22:28 | 0:22:31 | |
the way it's behaved on this, and
the way it's behaved on this, and | 0:22:31 | 0:22:34 | |
that the Russian government is
responsible, and I agreed with him, | 0:22:34 | 0:22:37 | |
and he went further than Theresa | 0:22:37 | 0:22:40 | |
responsible, and I agreed with him,
by pointing the finger at Putin, | 0:22:40 | 0:22:44 | |
something similar to what Boris
something similar to what Boris | 0:22:44 | 0:22:46 | |
Johnson has said, so I think there's
a recognition that even though | 0:22:46 | 0:22:51 | |
Johnson has said, so I think there's
don't know which individual | 0:22:51 | 0:22:52 | |
Johnson has said, so I think there's
delivered the nerve agent there is | 0:22:52 | 0:22:54 | |
responsibility here in the Russian | 0:22:54 | 0:22:57 | |
delivered the nerve agent there is
state and I think some part of the | 0:22:57 | 0:22:59 | |
security service is what we expect
as well. It was clear in the House | 0:22:59 | 0:23:03 | |
of Commons this week there were
senior Labour MPs like yourself | 0:23:03 | 0:23:08 | |
uncomfortable with Jeremy Corbyn's
position. There's also been reports | 0:23:08 | 0:23:13 | |
uncomfortable with Jeremy Corbyn's
this has been seen as a watershed | 0:23:13 | 0:23:16 | |
moment by some moderate Labour MPs
wondering what they are doing in | 0:23:16 | 0:23:20 | |
Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party and
revived talk of a breakaway party, | 0:23:20 | 0:23:24 | |
is that something you have heard
about? I think this is a load of | 0:23:24 | 0:23:32 | |
rubbish. I have not heard this so I
rubbish. I have not heard this so I | 0:23:32 | 0:23:35 | |
think this is in danger of
spiralling ever outwards and we are | 0:23:35 | 0:23:42 | |
also in danger of making this an
issue about domestic politics at a | 0:23:42 | 0:23:44 | |
also in danger of making this an
time when there is very | 0:23:44 | 0:23:46 | |
also in danger of making this an
international issues here that we | 0:23:46 | 0:23:47 | |
international issues here that we
should be focusing on and coming | 0:23:47 | 0:23:49 | |
together to focus on as well. That's | 0:23:49 | 0:23:51 | |
should be focusing on and coming
why it becomes a domestic issue | 0:23:51 | 0:23:53 | |
why it becomes a domestic issue
because it's at times like this you | 0:23:53 | 0:23:54 | |
might expect the leader of | 0:23:54 | 0:24:00 | |
because it's at times like this you
opposition to back-up the Prime | 0:24:00 | 0:24:01 | |
Minister, you were clearly
uncomfortable with the way | 0:24:01 | 0:24:03 | |
Minister, you were clearly
not do that, so it has consequences | 0:24:03 | 0:24:05 | |
Minister, you were clearly
within the Labour Party. As I | 0:24:05 | 0:24:06 | |
within the Labour Party. As I
understand it, Jeremy has said that | 0:24:06 | 0:24:09 | |
the evidence points to wash, that
also he supports all of the measures | 0:24:09 | 0:24:14 | |
the evidence points to wash, that
and that's really | 0:24:14 | 0:24:19 | |
and that's really important that you
have unanimity about the actions | 0:24:20 | 0:24:20 | |
that need | 0:24:20 | 0:24:23 | |
have unanimity about the actions
for further action around the | 0:24:23 | 0:24:25 | |
economic sanctions. They understand | 0:24:25 | 0:24:27 | |
for further action around the
he wanted to wait for further | 0:24:27 | 0:24:28 | |
evidence before going further and
criticising the Russian government. | 0:24:28 | 0:24:33 | |
Obviously John McDonnell has | 0:24:33 | 0:24:37 | |
criticising the Russian government.
criticised the Russian government | 0:24:37 | 0:24:37 | |
today, but I'm not going to
criticise Jeremy for taking | 0:24:37 | 0:24:41 | |
today, but I'm not going to
slightly different view | 0:24:41 | 0:24:42 | |
today, but I'm not going to
think there's been too much | 0:24:42 | 0:24:44 | |
temperature in this and you have
heard people being called warmongers | 0:24:44 | 0:24:47 | |
for condemning the Russian state,
you've also heard people being | 0:24:47 | 0:24:52 | |
called appeasers for asking further
questions. | 0:24:52 | 0:25:00 | |
questions. None of that helps. We
are not talking about military | 0:25:02 | 0:25:05 | |
action, we are talking about | 0:25:05 | 0:25:08 | |
are not talking about military
I hope there can be unanimity about | 0:25:08 | 0:25:09 | |
what | 0:25:09 | 0:25:11 | |
Yvonne Cooper, thank you. I will
just pick up some of that with the | 0:25:11 | 0:25:14 | |
panel. Lucy Fisher, it was clear
listening to Yvette Cooper, and | 0:25:14 | 0:25:19 | |
Shami Chakrabarti, very much in the
Labour Party people who seemed to | 0:25:19 | 0:25:24 | |
Shami Chakrabarti, very much in the
at odds at the beginning of the week | 0:25:24 | 0:25:24 | |
at odds at the beginning of the week
as saying there is nothing to see | 0:25:24 | 0:25:26 | |
here, is that true? I'm not entirely | 0:25:26 | 0:25:32 | |
as saying there is nothing to see
convinced, I think this has opened | 0:25:32 | 0:25:34 | |
as saying there is nothing to see
up old wounds in the Labour Party, | 0:25:34 | 0:25:36 | |
the front bench has been strained by
this response, and while we were | 0:25:36 | 0:25:40 | |
the front bench has been strained by
talking about how some of | 0:25:40 | 0:25:43 | |
the front bench has been strained by
questions he has asked are valid, | 0:25:43 | 0:25:44 | |
tonally I think the response has | 0:25:44 | 0:25:46 | |
questions he has asked are valid,
upset a lot of Labour MPs, including | 0:25:46 | 0:25:50 | |
those who have called for the
Commons to unequivocally condemn the | 0:25:50 | 0:25:53 | |
Russian state. Matt Zarb Cousin,
Labour has been | 0:25:53 | 0:26:08 | |
Labour has been calling for -- the | 0:26:08 | 0:26:10 | |
Government have been calling for
Magnitsky clauses, exactly what | 0:26:10 | 0:26:15 | |
Government have been calling for
Jeremy Corbyn called forth. Were you | 0:26:15 | 0:26:15 | |
Jeremy Corbyn called forth. Were you
satisfied with what you heard from | 0:26:15 | 0:26:20 | |
from Alan Duncan? No, they are
watered down compared to what Jeremy | 0:26:20 | 0:26:23 | |
Corbyn had in the manifesto in | 0:26:23 | 0:26:28 | |
watered down compared to what Jeremy
last election. I think there is an | 0:26:28 | 0:26:28 | |
agreement among the Labour Party now | 0:26:28 | 0:26:31 | |
last election. I think there is an
and the front bench particularly | 0:26:31 | 0:26:33 | |
last election. I think there is an
that the Russian state is culpable | 0:26:33 | 0:26:34 | |
last election. I think there is an
and that is shared across the house. | 0:26:34 | 0:26:36 | |
You are still couple books under the
chemicals weapons Convention if | 0:26:36 | 0:26:42 | |
You are still couple books under the
lose control of the nerve agent, | 0:26:42 | 0:26:45 | |
which is what | 0:26:45 | 0:26:48 | |
lose control of the nerve agent,
Conservative government is serious | 0:26:48 | 0:26:50 | |
lose control of the nerve agent,
about financial powers in order to | 0:26:50 | 0:26:52 | |
lose control of the nerve agent,
target corrupt money? David Cameron | 0:26:52 | 0:26:53 | |
said one of his great regrets is
that he never introduced me | 0:26:53 | 0:26:57 | |
Magnitsky powers, the Government say
they will go ahead with it, is it | 0:26:57 | 0:27:02 | |
powers they will use in a meaningful
way? I think they are absolutely | 0:27:02 | 0:27:08 | |
way? I think they are absolutely
serious. The national security | 0:27:08 | 0:27:09 | |
adviser said he understands this, as
does the intelligence minister Ben | 0:27:09 | 0:27:14 | |
Wallace, they have already used
these new powers about freezing the | 0:27:14 | 0:27:19 | |
assets on unexplained wealth. A
fairly new measure which has already | 0:27:19 | 0:27:25 | |
been implemented in at least one
case as I understand it. I want to | 0:27:25 | 0:27:30 | |
come back on your comments, you | 0:27:30 | 0:27:31 | |
case as I understand it. I want to
the Labour Party is singing as one, | 0:27:31 | 0:27:34 | |
I don't pick that | 0:27:34 | 0:27:37 | |
the Labour Party is singing as one,
rhetoric. I felt Yvette Cooper was | 0:27:37 | 0:27:40 | |
extraordinarily diplomatic, but | 0:27:40 | 0:27:41 | |
rhetoric. I felt Yvette Cooper was
trying to paper over serious cracks | 0:27:41 | 0:27:44 | |
within the Parliamentary party about
Labour's position on this. It is | 0:27:44 | 0:27:49 | |
clear Jeremy Corbyn doubts the
intelligence on it. It is not the | 0:27:49 | 0:27:53 | |
intelligence he doubts, it is | 0:27:53 | 0:27:55 | |
intelligence on it. It is not the
way the intelligence has been | 0:27:55 | 0:27:57 | |
interpreted by | 0:27:57 | 0:28:00 | |
way the intelligence has been
I'm talking about intelligence he | 0:28:00 | 0:28:00 | |
perhaps hasn't seen so we don't know | 0:28:00 | 0:28:06 | |
how much he has seen. Theresa May,
as Lucy's story showed this week, | 0:28:06 | 0:28:08 | |
hasn't necessarily shown the Leader | 0:28:08 | 0:28:11 | |
as Lucy's story showed this week,
of the Opposition and chief of staff | 0:28:11 | 0:28:12 | |
everything. It is the same as Iraq
in a sense. It is not the | 0:28:12 | 0:28:17 | |
everything. It is the same as Iraq
intelligence itself necessarily, it | 0:28:17 | 0:28:20 | |
everything. It is the same as Iraq
is how the Government uses the | 0:28:20 | 0:28:20 | |
intelligence, and that's when it
comes back to the nerve agent being | 0:28:20 | 0:28:24 | |
intelligence, and that's when it
of a type developed by Russia. | 0:28:24 | 0:28:29 | |
OK, talking of cracks in the Labour
OK, talking of cracks in the Labour | 0:28:29 | 0:28:31 | |
Party we have another | 0:28:31 | 0:28:34 | |
On Tuesday the Labour Party
were expected to rubber | 0:28:34 | 0:28:36 | |
stamp their support for transgender
women to be included | 0:28:36 | 0:28:39 | |
on all-women short lists. | 0:28:39 | 0:28:40 | |
But this programme has learned that
that announcement has been delayed | 0:28:40 | 0:28:42 | |
so that arguments on all sides
can be heard. | 0:28:42 | 0:28:44 | |
The rights of the transgender
community have also become part | 0:28:44 | 0:28:47 | |
of a wider conversation
in Westminster after the government | 0:28:47 | 0:28:49 | |
backed calls to simplify the legal
process to for someone | 0:28:49 | 0:28:51 | |
to change their gender. | 0:28:51 | 0:28:52 | |
Greg Dawson reports. | 0:28:52 | 0:28:55 | |
This is Heather Peto. | 0:28:57 | 0:28:59 | |
I've always known I'm a woman,
it's when I became a teenager that | 0:28:59 | 0:29:03 | |
I really sort of like felt
the pressure to be who I was. | 0:29:03 | 0:29:06 | |
And, at the next general election,
she wants to make political history. | 0:29:06 | 0:29:11 | |
I'd like to be one of the first
she wants to make political history. | 0:29:11 | 0:29:15 | |
But that ambition has
propelled her and others | 0:29:15 | 0:29:17 | |
to the centre of a significant row
in the Labour Party | 0:29:17 | 0:29:20 | |
after she was included
on an all women's short list | 0:29:20 | 0:29:23 | |
as a Parliamentary candidate. | 0:29:23 | 0:29:29 | |
I don't think it's an | 0:29:29 | 0:29:30 | |
I don't think it's an issue to be
honest. I think the local party | 0:29:30 | 0:29:35 | |
decides and the best candidates will
get through so I don't think | 0:29:35 | 0:29:39 | |
decides and the best candidates will
an issue. I think it's being made | 0:29:39 | 0:29:43 | |
decides and the best candidates will
issue by some people that are more | 0:29:43 | 0:29:44 | |
anti-transgender, but local people | 0:29:44 | 0:29:45 | |
issue by some people that are more
don't seem | 0:29:45 | 0:29:50 | |
onto all women's short lists
but that policy has recently | 0:29:50 | 0:29:51 | |
come under attack.
feminists who descended | 0:29:51 | 0:29:55 | |
on Parliament this week
for a meeting they titled | 0:29:55 | 0:29:58 | |
"transgender and the war on women". | 0:29:58 | 0:30:04 | |
They've been described
as transphobic, a label they reject. | 0:30:05 | 0:30:08 | |
I can see already there
are trans-identifying | 0:30:08 | 0:30:10 | |
men cynically use -
what I feel - are cynically | 0:30:10 | 0:30:13 | |
using those positions. | 0:30:13 | 0:30:18 | |
You've got Heather Peto who is
the trans-inclusionary officer | 0:30:18 | 0:30:20 | |
of the Labour Party,
he went on to an all | 0:30:20 | 0:30:23 | |
women's short list. | 0:30:23 | 0:30:24 | |
The fact that you are referencing
Heather as 'he' against her wishes | 0:30:24 | 0:30:27 | |
preferred pronouns. | 0:30:29 | 0:30:34 | |
Once we start using she for a man,
we are blurring the distinction. | 0:30:34 | 0:30:37 | |
Venice Allan is a Labour member
but those views got her suspended. | 0:30:37 | 0:30:41 | |
She knows what she says is offensive
to the trans community | 0:30:41 | 0:30:44 | |
but makes no apology for it. | 0:30:44 | 0:30:49 | |
I really do want to have this
conversation, like I say, | 0:30:49 | 0:30:52 | |
you don't have to agree with us
but you do have to listen to us. | 0:30:52 | 0:30:56 | |
Like the Labour Party, you know,
they're not listening. | 0:30:56 | 0:30:58 | |
I've tried to set up Momentum
events, Labour events, I've tried | 0:30:58 | 0:31:01 | |
to meet with Jeremy Corbyn
and other politicians. | 0:31:01 | 0:31:04 | |
Labour were supposed to formally
clarify their support for trans | 0:31:04 | 0:31:10 | |
women on all-women short
lists at a meeting at the | 0:31:10 | 0:31:12 | |
party's HQ this week.
would have triggered | 0:31:12 | 0:31:16 | |
the resignations of more
than 200 female members. | 0:31:16 | 0:31:18 | |
Then yesterday, Labour told us
that formal discussion | 0:31:18 | 0:31:19 | |
was delayed until June. | 0:31:19 | 0:31:22 | |
This is all a precursor to a much
wider political debate | 0:31:23 | 0:31:27 | |
going on with the Government
committing to update | 0:31:27 | 0:31:29 | |
the Gender Recognition Act. | 0:31:29 | 0:31:31 | |
As the Prime Minister has explained,
the changes would allow people | 0:31:31 | 0:31:34 | |
to self define their gender
without the need for | 0:31:34 | 0:31:37 | |
medical diagnosis. | 0:31:37 | 0:31:39 | |
We have set out plans to reform
the Gender Recognition Act, | 0:31:39 | 0:31:42 | |
streamlining and demedicalising
the process for changing gender, | 0:31:42 | 0:31:45 | |
because being trans is not
an illness and it shouldn't be | 0:31:45 | 0:31:47 | |
treated as such. | 0:31:47 | 0:31:53 | |
Since she made that speech
at the Pink Awards last October, | 0:31:55 | 0:32:01 | |
progress on those changes
to the Gender Recognition Act seems | 0:32:01 | 0:32:04 | |
to have slowed down. | 0:32:04 | 0:32:09 | |
I've asked the Government what's
going on and they just say in this | 0:32:09 | 0:32:13 | |
very short statement that
a consultation will be published | 0:32:13 | 0:32:15 | |
in due course, but no date given. | 0:32:15 | 0:32:19 | |
And our various requests to speak
to politicians both in favour | 0:32:19 | 0:32:23 | |
and opposed to these changes
were all turned down, which came | 0:32:23 | 0:32:26 | |
as little surprise to some.
politicians who have | 0:32:26 | 0:32:30 | |
questions about this,
who have doubts about it, | 0:32:30 | 0:32:32 | |
who don't dare express those doubts,
raise those questions, | 0:32:32 | 0:32:38 | |
because they are worried that
if they do they will be screamed at, | 0:32:38 | 0:32:42 | |
they will be accused of bigotry
and transphobia simply | 0:32:42 | 0:32:44 | |
for asking questions. | 0:32:44 | 0:32:46 | |
James Kirkup has written a number
of columns on the updates to the act | 0:32:46 | 0:32:49 | |
and isn't sure it's been
properly thought through. | 0:32:49 | 0:32:51 | |
There are questions about access
to safe spaces for women | 0:32:51 | 0:32:56 | |
in domestic violence refuges,
there are questions | 0:32:56 | 0:32:58 | |
about the collection,
collation of statistics | 0:32:58 | 0:33:00 | |
on crime, on pay. | 0:33:00 | 0:33:04 | |
Questions that should be asked,
debated, discussed and answered. | 0:33:04 | 0:33:07 | |
Heather Peto says the changes
debated, discussed and answered. | 0:33:07 | 0:33:14 | |
and hopes she can one day speak up
for the rights of the | 0:33:14 | 0:33:16 | |
trans-community from the benches
of the House of Commons. | 0:33:16 | 0:33:19 | |
As a feminist, I would stand up
to that and say, no, | 0:33:19 | 0:33:21 | |
I will just be who I am. | 0:33:21 | 0:33:24 | |
I have the self-confidence that I'm
a woman and I always have been, | 0:33:24 | 0:33:26 | |
and people should just
accept me for that. | 0:33:26 | 0:33:32 | |
The two chip significant issues
pick about bout the Labour Party and | 0:33:32 | 0:33:36 | |
the Government's | 0:33:36 | 0:33:39 | |
pick about bout the Labour Party and
transgender rights, let me start | 0:33:39 | 0:33:39 | |
transgender rights, let me start
with you, Matt -- two significant | 0:33:39 | 0:33:44 | |
transgender rights, let me start
issues. The government is | 0:33:44 | 0:33:48 | |
transgender rights, let me start
terrible tangle on transgender women | 0:33:48 | 0:33:48 | |
on all women short lists and they've
had to put it off until June. Self | 0:33:48 | 0:33:54 | |
identifying trans-woman has never
been disbarred from being on a | 0:33:54 | 0:33:57 | |
women's short list in the | 0:33:57 | 0:34:02 | |
been disbarred from being on a
selection. The consultation was, as | 0:34:02 | 0:34:03 | |
I understand it, coming up with a | 0:34:03 | 0:34:06 | |
selection. The consultation was, as
form of words... Clarifying the | 0:34:06 | 0:34:09 | |
position that trans-women are
elaborate rules to be on all women | 0:34:09 | 0:34:11 | |
short lists, it | 0:34:11 | 0:34:13 | |
elaborate rules to be on all women
around the party with two prominent | 0:34:13 | 0:34:15 | |
elaborate rules to be on all women
members threatening to resign if | 0:34:15 | 0:34:16 | |
elaborate rules to be on all women
that warning is put in, that | 0:34:16 | 0:34:19 | |
elaborate rules to be on all women
party has been bucking the | 0:34:19 | 0:34:19 | |
elaborate rules to be on all women
and kicking it into | 0:34:19 | 0:34:22 | |
elaborate rules to be on all women
The conversations I have had with | 0:34:22 | 0:34:24 | |
the leader's of this suggest | 0:34:24 | 0:34:26 | |
The conversations I have had with
not the case, they are | 0:34:26 | 0:34:28 | |
The conversations I have had with
consulting on it and exactly what | 0:34:28 | 0:34:28 | |
consulting on it and exactly what
the form of words will be there is | 0:34:28 | 0:34:30 | |
no actual plan as far as I'm aware
to stop trans-women self identifying | 0:34:30 | 0:34:37 | |
no actual plan as far as I'm aware
and being on a women's short list. | 0:34:37 | 0:34:38 | |
Can I ask how many trans-women are | 0:34:38 | 0:34:40 | |
and being on a women's short list.
applying to be on all women short | 0:34:40 | 0:34:42 | |
lists? I'm not sure. I suspect it is
zero. Heather Peto is one of them in | 0:34:42 | 0:34:49 | |
zero. Heather Peto is one of them in
the film, there may be several. | 0:34:49 | 0:34:52 | |
There may be but I suspect it is
less than the number of women on | 0:34:52 | 0:34:58 | |
this. | 0:34:58 | 0:35:00 | |
Not from any disparaging how
difficult it must be to be in | 0:35:03 | 0:35:06 | |
Not from any disparaging how
situation. There would | 0:35:06 | 0:35:08 | |
Not from any disparaging how
way of resolving the switch would | 0:35:08 | 0:35:10 | |
Not from any disparaging how
not to have all women short lists | 0:35:10 | 0:35:12 | |
Not from any disparaging how
and select the best candidates for | 0:35:12 | 0:35:13 | |
the job. It is also about whether
Labour MPs have access to the | 0:35:13 | 0:35:20 | |
leadership programme, whether they
can stand as women's officers in | 0:35:20 | 0:35:24 | |
local parties. What Labour did | 0:35:24 | 0:35:26 | |
can stand as women's officers in
they jumped the gun by saying it is | 0:35:26 | 0:35:28 | |
fine, or self identifying
trans-women can have access to these | 0:35:28 | 0:35:33 | |
full rights. I think it is quite
welcome to have a | 0:35:33 | 0:35:37 | |
full rights. I think it is quite
Politics is the art of persuasion | 0:35:37 | 0:35:39 | |
and there was no real attempt | 0:35:39 | 0:35:41 | |
Politics is the art of persuasion
Labour leadership to bring the | 0:35:41 | 0:35:41 | |
party, bring some of the feminist...
There are radical feminists in the | 0:35:41 | 0:35:46 | |
party who will take more than a bit
of gentle persuasion to | 0:35:46 | 0:35:50 | |
party who will take more than a bit
accustomed to the idea | 0:35:50 | 0:35:51 | |
party who will take more than a bit
who were born men should be | 0:35:51 | 0:35:53 | |
party who will take more than a bit
all women short list. That's right | 0:35:53 | 0:35:54 | |
but as we saw in the VT they are
asking for an opportunity to be | 0:35:54 | 0:36:03 | |
heard and the debate to be had so it | 0:36:05 | 0:36:07 | |
asking for an opportunity to be
is quite welcome there will be a | 0:36:07 | 0:36:09 | |
consultation. It's not just | 0:36:09 | 0:36:11 | |
is quite welcome there will be a
kicked on this issue | 0:36:11 | 0:36:13 | |
is quite welcome there will be a
know what happened to the | 0:36:13 | 0:36:14 | |
Government's consultation | 0:36:14 | 0:36:18 | |
or woman. That's going to be a
difficult one for the government. | 0:36:18 | 0:36:18 | |
Remember the | 0:36:18 | 0:36:20 | |
difficult one for the government.
toy party that David Cameron fought | 0:36:20 | 0:36:20 | |
difficult one for the government.
over gay marriage. Absolutely and | 0:36:20 | 0:36:21 | |
this is even much | 0:36:21 | 0:36:23 | |
over gay marriage. Absolutely and
and a sensitive issue. | 0:36:23 | 0:36:25 | |
over gay marriage. Absolutely and
and I've been guilty of it myself to | 0:36:25 | 0:36:27 | |
and I've been guilty of it myself to
get the language are wrong on this, | 0:36:27 | 0:36:29 | |
to upset people, and I can | 0:36:29 | 0:36:34 | |
get the language are wrong on this,
imagine the Prime Minister's qualms | 0:36:34 | 0:36:35 | |
about opening this can of worms
about opening this can of worms | 0:36:35 | 0:36:39 | |
within her own party, where there
will be people who | 0:36:39 | 0:36:42 | |
within her own party, where there
off message about it. It seems they | 0:36:42 | 0:36:46 | |
are pushing agendas are long | 0:36:46 | 0:36:49 | |
off message about it. It seems they
and there are bigger issues to worry | 0:36:49 | 0:36:50 | |
off message about it. It seems they
about. You are talking about 2000 or | 0:36:50 | 0:36:52 | |
3000 people in a party of 650,000.
It is a rounding error. In the | 0:36:52 | 0:36:59 | |
3000 people in a party of 650,000.
Labour Party, you're talking about? | 0:36:59 | 0:37:00 | |
3000 people in a party of 650,000.
It is not splitting the party, it is | 0:37:00 | 0:37:02 | |
3000 people in a party of 650,000.
a small minority of women who don't | 0:37:02 | 0:37:05 | |
3000 people in a party of 650,000.
believe in trans-rights, that's it. | 0:37:05 | 0:37:06 | |
Interesting to hear Theresa | 0:37:06 | 0:37:08 | |
believe in trans-rights, that's it.
talking about the Government's | 0:37:08 | 0:37:09 | |
consultation. That was a clear
statement she made | 0:37:09 | 0:37:12 | |
consultation. That was a clear
conference saying she wanted | 0:37:12 | 0:37:14 | |
consultation. That was a clear
streamline this and trans-wasn't a | 0:37:14 | 0:37:16 | |
mental health issue, she made a | 0:37:16 | 0:37:19 | |
streamline this and trans-wasn't a
strong commitment | 0:37:19 | 0:37:21 | |
streamline this and trans-wasn't a
and she didn't have to do that. She | 0:37:21 | 0:37:22 | |
and she didn't have to do that. She
didn't at all and | 0:37:22 | 0:37:26 | |
and she didn't have to do that. She
she went as far as that. It is not | 0:37:26 | 0:37:28 | |
unprecedented. Ireland, Argentina, | 0:37:28 | 0:37:30 | |
she went as far as that. It is not
Colombia and Malta have changed | 0:37:30 | 0:37:31 | |
their processes to deep apologise it | 0:37:31 | 0:37:33 | |
Colombia and Malta have changed
so it is merely a legal process and | 0:37:33 | 0:37:35 | |
that is what the | 0:37:35 | 0:37:38 | |
so it is merely a legal process and
getting at. My understanding is for | 0:37:38 | 0:37:40 | |
a person to legally change their | 0:37:40 | 0:37:42 | |
getting at. My understanding is for
gender they have to live as their | 0:37:42 | 0:37:44 | |
desired gender for two years and
they have to have psychiatric | 0:37:44 | 0:37:47 | |
they have to have | 0:37:47 | 0:37:48 | |
evaluations and medical opinions
they have to have | 0:37:48 | 0:37:48 | |
evaluations and medical opinions
from two doctors and tests that some | 0:37:48 | 0:37:50 | |
have claimed are incredibly
traumatising. It can be made legal | 0:37:50 | 0:37:59 | |
process from precedents aboard. We | 0:37:59 | 0:38:00 | |
traumatising. It can be made legal
will carry | 0:38:00 | 0:38:03 | |
traumatising. It can be made legal
throughout the programme. | 0:38:03 | 0:38:03 | |
It's coming up to 11:40am,
you're watching the Sunday Politics. | 0:38:03 | 0:38:05 | |
Still to come - | 0:38:05 | 0:38:06 | |
There is a big row brewing
in the Brexit Select Committee | 0:38:06 | 0:38:09 | |
and I'll be talking to its Chairman
- Hilary Benn. | 0:38:09 | 0:38:11 | |
First though, it's time for
the Sunday Politics where you are. | 0:38:11 | 0:38:13 | |
I see this role is | 0:38:13 | 0:38:19 | |
-- welcome to Sunday Politics.
Coming up. The first Welsh taxes for | 0:38:24 | 0:38:31 | |
800 years will kick in next month.
Are we ready? And could last | 0:38:31 | 0:38:37 | |
vehicles be an alternative to the
Swansea Bay metal? First, Alex | 0:38:37 | 0:38:42 | |
Kearns has been well secretary for
two years, with Brexit and other | 0:38:42 | 0:38:48 | |
opportunities crossing his desk. I
asked him how he thought things had | 0:38:48 | 0:38:50 | |
been going when I met him.
Well, it has been a fantastic | 0:38:50 | 0:38:55 | |
privilege in the first instance. I
wanted to play my part in bringing a | 0:38:55 | 0:38:59 | |
much warmer relationship, more
constructive relationship, between | 0:38:59 | 0:39:02 | |
the Welsh and UK Government. Funding
was a key issue. People in Wales | 0:39:02 | 0:39:07 | |
have rightly been complaining for
some time there needed to be in new | 0:39:07 | 0:39:11 | |
funding settlement, and I think that
is one of the most significant | 0:39:11 | 0:39:14 | |
outcomes. Overall, it is about
getting people to understand that | 0:39:14 | 0:39:19 | |
there are two governmentus in Wales,
one that act in the devolved area, | 0:39:19 | 0:39:23 | |
the Welsh Government, and then in
reserve spaces there is the UK | 0:39:23 | 0:39:26 | |
government, which is also relevant
to people working in Wales. This | 0:39:26 | 0:39:30 | |
time last year, the big
accomplishments were Wales Act, | 0:39:30 | 0:39:40 | |
physical framework, mobile coverage
and business support. In the year | 0:39:40 | 0:39:42 | |
since then, what would you say are
the big things you have achieved? It | 0:39:42 | 0:39:48 | |
is a central part around Brexit. The
referendum, are outcome of that, was | 0:39:48 | 0:39:54 | |
a surprise to many. We have an
obligation to act on that | 0:39:54 | 0:39:57 | |
instruction, because Wales voted to
leave. It has made the role of the | 0:39:57 | 0:40:00 | |
Secretary of State for Wales much
more exciting and central to the | 0:40:00 | 0:40:03 | |
thinking of government process.
There are several Brexit committees. | 0:40:03 | 0:40:09 | |
I specialise in the one in trade and
the one in domestic preparations, as | 0:40:09 | 0:40:15 | |
well as economic affairs. That has
enabled me to ensure that the UK | 0:40:15 | 0:40:20 | |
government represents every part of
the United Kingdom. Wales is my | 0:40:20 | 0:40:24 | |
interest, as it moves forward in
preparations to leave the EU. It is | 0:40:24 | 0:40:29 | |
interesting that you say the
relationships between the two | 0:40:29 | 0:40:32 | |
governments have been a step
forward, Brexit, because you could | 0:40:32 | 0:40:35 | |
argue... With the repeal Bill and
so-called power grab from the UK | 0:40:35 | 0:40:40 | |
Government, as the Welsh Government
would call it, that actually | 0:40:40 | 0:40:42 | |
relations have been under a lot of
pressure between the two. Let's go | 0:40:42 | 0:40:46 | |
back to the Wills bill, Wales act.
There were many journalists, maybe | 0:40:46 | 0:40:52 | |
you included, who suggested that I
would never get agreement between | 0:40:52 | 0:40:55 | |
the UK Government and Welsh
Government. It was only by hard work | 0:40:55 | 0:40:59 | |
and determination that we succeeded.
In relation to the European Union | 0:40:59 | 0:41:04 | |
withdrawal bill, and it does --
equally optimistic. The | 0:41:04 | 0:41:12 | |
electrification of the line from
London to Cardiff has happened over | 0:41:12 | 0:41:17 | |
the last year, but it has been
cancelled to Swansea. Over the last | 0:41:17 | 0:41:20 | |
year or two, does that have to count
as a failure? No, I think that is | 0:41:20 | 0:41:26 | |
the right decision. It is taxpayers'
money. It is the same train, which | 0:41:26 | 0:41:30 | |
will take this amount of time... But
when it was going to Swansea, you | 0:41:30 | 0:41:33 | |
were in favour of that, saying it
needed to happen. Now it is not, you | 0:41:33 | 0:41:37 | |
say it is still the right decision.
It has to be either order. No, it is | 0:41:37 | 0:41:42 | |
the same train that the excessive
amount of time, and spending | 0:41:42 | 0:41:47 | |
potentially £700 million on
electrifying a railway when the | 0:41:47 | 0:41:49 | |
train was by model and would not
have got any quicker, it did not | 0:41:49 | 0:41:52 | |
make in a sense. Another issue that
your detractors would be very | 0:41:52 | 0:41:59 | |
unhappy with is your continued
reluctance, refusal, to devolve air | 0:41:59 | 0:42:03 | |
passenger duty to the Welsh
Government, citing, as the UK | 0:42:03 | 0:42:08 | |
Government has, that it would be too
damaging to Bristol airport. You are | 0:42:08 | 0:42:12 | |
not fully there are standing up for
Wales strongly enough, is that fair? | 0:42:12 | 0:42:17 | |
I do not accept that. First of all,
the commission did not come up with | 0:42:17 | 0:42:21 | |
an agreement on this issue. The
First Minister was calling for air | 0:42:21 | 0:42:27 | |
passenger duty to be devolved, but
that is pretty anti-competitive... | 0:42:27 | 0:42:30 | |
So does the labour of the
conservative and Wales is not the | 0:42:30 | 0:42:34 | |
leader of the Conservatives. Only UK
bases, the most important market... | 0:42:34 | 0:42:39 | |
You should be looking at Wills, not
the UK. The most important market to | 0:42:39 | 0:42:44 | |
Wales as the UK market, because 80%
of output from Wills goes to the | 0:42:44 | 0:42:50 | |
rest of the UK, and, therefore, the
vibrancy of the Welsh economy is | 0:42:50 | 0:42:55 | |
dependent on the strength of the UK
economy, and the UK economy is | 0:42:55 | 0:42:59 | |
dependent on the strength of the
Welsh economy. | 0:42:59 | 0:43:02 | |
One of the success you have always
cited as the server until being | 0:43:02 | 0:43:05 | |
abolished. We see in the media that
the Newport area is being seen as an | 0:43:05 | 0:43:12 | |
area where people are trying houses,
the Bristol posts saying there is | 0:43:12 | 0:43:18 | |
going to be a mass exodus to Wales,
were historically ones are cheaper. | 0:43:18 | 0:43:23 | |
-- the Severn Toll. As the
consequence of abolishing the tolls | 0:43:23 | 0:43:30 | |
would be an influx of a lot of south
eastern English people did wheels, | 0:43:30 | 0:43:33 | |
would that be regrettable? So, are
are you asking if I should keep that | 0:43:33 | 0:43:41 | |
all 30 TV barrier? Every action has
a consequence, what consequence | 0:43:41 | 0:43:45 | |
could be from migration to South
East Wills. You have a toll across | 0:43:45 | 0:43:58 | |
the whole of the border to stop
that? This is removing that. We | 0:43:58 | 0:44:03 | |
don't worry about that cross-border
issue in north-east Wales. Airbus is | 0:44:03 | 0:44:06 | |
there. 40% of the employees of
Airbus come from the English side of | 0:44:06 | 0:44:10 | |
the border. That is good for the
economy. It shows a greater dynamic | 0:44:10 | 0:44:15 | |
of movement between those places.
Therefore, on that basis, by | 0:44:15 | 0:44:21 | |
removing the tollus on the Severn
Bridge, it has created excitement in | 0:44:21 | 0:44:25 | |
the business community, because the
biggest prospect... But there are | 0:44:25 | 0:44:29 | |
cultural aspects. The economic
reasons behind it are well-known. | 0:44:29 | 0:44:33 | |
Less discussed the possible
population changes which could | 0:44:33 | 0:44:40 | |
result from them, and I am not
really getting a sense from you as | 0:44:40 | 0:44:42 | |
to whether or not you think that
would be good or bad. There are | 0:44:42 | 0:44:44 | |
going to be challenges along the
way, without question. If there are | 0:44:44 | 0:44:48 | |
more people working in an area,
there is greater demand for housing. | 0:44:48 | 0:44:51 | |
On that basis, there is going to be
a social policy, because that has to | 0:44:51 | 0:44:55 | |
be resolved in terms of extra
housing. There is going to be | 0:44:55 | 0:45:01 | |
greater need for development for
business property. The biggest | 0:45:01 | 0:45:02 | |
property deal last year in Wales
took place after the Severn Tollus, | 0:45:02 | 0:45:08 | |
and the agent said it was because
they were being abolished. This goes | 0:45:08 | 0:45:11 | |
to show that there is an excitement
amongst the business community. This | 0:45:11 | 0:45:14 | |
is about, look, politics is about
improving people's lives. It is | 0:45:14 | 0:45:19 | |
about creating more wealth, sharing
wealth on a better basis. We can | 0:45:19 | 0:45:26 | |
always be poor by keeping a barrier
between us and other economies, or | 0:45:26 | 0:45:32 | |
more dynamic economies. That is
quite easily done. And then you can | 0:45:32 | 0:45:34 | |
defend it by saying we need those
tollus in order to maintain that | 0:45:34 | 0:45:41 | |
barrier. That is not the right thing
to do. I want the greatest movement, | 0:45:41 | 0:45:44 | |
the greatest dynamism in the
economy. I want to go -- the | 0:45:44 | 0:45:54 | |
critical mass that we create between
Bristol and Cardiff to start | 0:45:54 | 0:45:58 | |
campaigning with London and the
south east. | 0:45:58 | 0:46:02 | |
Welsh liver's election for a dip
into leader is still going on. A few | 0:46:02 | 0:46:06 | |
weeks ago, you will remember Julie
Morgan, one of the candidates, what | 0:46:06 | 0:46:09 | |
you're making her pitch. But what of
her opponent, Carolyn Harris? A | 0:46:09 | 0:46:14 | |
short while ago, I began by asking
her why she wanted the job. | 0:46:14 | 0:46:18 | |
I see this role as being
about campaigning, motivating | 0:46:18 | 0:46:20 | |
and enthusing people. | 0:46:20 | 0:46:21 | |
I've been an MP since 2015
and every campaign I have | 0:46:21 | 0:46:23 | |
taken on, I think I have
delivered the goods on. | 0:46:23 | 0:46:27 | |
I've led the way on 1950s women, | 0:46:27 | 0:46:27 | |
I've managed to get children's
funerals free in Wales | 0:46:27 | 0:46:30 | |
and I'm very,
very close to getting them | 0:46:30 | 0:46:32 | |
in the rest of the UK. | 0:46:32 | 0:46:33 | |
Fixed-odd betting
terminals - dreadful, | 0:46:33 | 0:46:34 | |
dreadful machines -
were somewhere on the horizon, | 0:46:34 | 0:46:37 | |
but they are now at
the top of the political agenda | 0:46:37 | 0:46:39 | |
and I'm hopeful that we're going
to get something on that very soon. | 0:46:39 | 0:46:42 | |
So, I think I've proved
myself to be the kind of person | 0:46:42 | 0:46:45 | |
who can work with people,
talk to people, listen to people. | 0:46:45 | 0:46:48 | |
I home in on the issues and I love
getting my sleeves rolled up | 0:46:48 | 0:46:51 | |
and getting the job done. | 0:46:51 | 0:46:55 | |
What kind of campaigns do
you think are needed | 0:46:55 | 0:46:58 | |
as deputy leader of
Welsh Labour, then? | 0:46:58 | 0:46:59 | |
Well, we don't really
know yet, do we? | 0:46:59 | 0:47:01 | |
We don't know until
we get out there and | 0:47:01 | 0:47:03 | |
actually speak to people. | 0:47:03 | 0:47:04 | |
I think we need to do
more work within the party | 0:47:04 | 0:47:07 | |
about supporting people
who want to become members, | 0:47:07 | 0:47:09 | |
who want to become part
of the Labour family, | 0:47:09 | 0:47:11 | |
especially for women and minority
groups who have access problems, | 0:47:11 | 0:47:15 | |
or even childcare problems,
and if you put yourself up | 0:47:15 | 0:47:19 | |
as a candidate, it's extremely
emotionally draining | 0:47:19 | 0:47:21 | |
and financially draining,
so I would like to see us doing | 0:47:21 | 0:47:24 | |
more on that in terms
of working with people | 0:47:24 | 0:47:27 | |
and training people
and giving them an idea of | 0:47:27 | 0:47:31 | |
what they're getting themselves
into, but it is not just | 0:47:31 | 0:47:33 | |
about the membership, is it? | 0:47:33 | 0:47:34 | |
It is about talking to people
in our communities. | 0:47:34 | 0:47:37 | |
This 3 million people in Wales. | 0:47:37 | 0:47:39 | |
They need us, they need us to listen
to them, and I see this role | 0:47:39 | 0:47:42 | |
as about working with not just
membership but working with | 0:47:42 | 0:47:46 | |
everybody in Wales to find
out what we can do to | 0:47:46 | 0:47:47 | |
make their life easier. | 0:47:47 | 0:47:49 | |
As a member of Parliament,
I just wonder, if you are | 0:47:49 | 0:47:51 | |
the deputy leader of Welsh
Labour, who then, ultimately, | 0:47:51 | 0:47:55 | |
do you think is your boss? | 0:47:55 | 0:47:56 | |
Is it Carwyn Jones or
is it Jeremy Corbyn? | 0:47:56 | 0:48:00 | |
Who do you have to
listen to if there is | 0:48:00 | 0:48:01 | |
a disagreement between
the two leaders? | 0:48:01 | 0:48:03 | |
Well, if there was a disagreement
to the detriment of Wales, | 0:48:03 | 0:48:05 | |
then obviously Welsh Labour wins
hands down, because I am | 0:48:05 | 0:48:08 | |
a Welsh politician, a Welsh MP,
I have to put my constituency | 0:48:08 | 0:48:10 | |
and Wales first. | 0:48:10 | 0:48:11 | |
But I can't ever imagine
there would be a time when the two | 0:48:11 | 0:48:15 | |
did not agree on something, because,
in all fairness to Jeremy, he does | 0:48:15 | 0:48:18 | |
leave devolution to sort itself out | 0:48:18 | 0:48:20 | |
and does not interfere in Welsh
politics. | 0:48:20 | 0:48:25 | |
If it did arise, I will take your
point that it may well not, | 0:48:25 | 0:48:30 | |
but you would defy the party whip
in Parliament | 0:48:30 | 0:48:33 | |
and vote against it on that basis? | 0:48:33 | 0:48:35 | |
Well, I have defied
the party whip before. | 0:48:35 | 0:48:40 | |
I defied the party whip
on welfare reform. | 0:48:40 | 0:48:42 | |
I was actually in the lobby
with Jeremy Corbyn. | 0:48:42 | 0:48:44 | |
There was only 47 of us,
but I was there then. | 0:48:44 | 0:48:46 | |
It's not something I would be afraid
to do, | 0:48:46 | 0:48:49 | |
because I have done it
before. | 0:48:49 | 0:48:50 | |
One of the big issues I am sure
you will be aware of | 0:48:50 | 0:48:53 | |
is one member,
one vote and whether or not | 0:48:53 | 0:48:55 | |
it should be used or should not be | 0:48:55 | 0:48:57 | |
to elect the next
Labour leader in Wales. | 0:48:57 | 0:48:59 | |
What are your views on that? | 0:48:59 | 0:49:01 | |
In terms of the college, I am very
much in favour of the unions | 0:49:01 | 0:49:04 | |
having a say. | 0:49:04 | 0:49:05 | |
People need to remember
that the unions did not | 0:49:05 | 0:49:07 | |
join the Labour Party,
they created the Labour Party. | 0:49:07 | 0:49:09 | |
Yes, I support that
part of the college. | 0:49:09 | 0:49:11 | |
What I would say is
that some people, who | 0:49:11 | 0:49:14 | |
we say are on the left, people
like Diane Abbott, Clive Lewis, have | 0:49:14 | 0:49:17 | |
actually come out in support of me
because they work with me, | 0:49:17 | 0:49:19 | |
they know me, they understand me,
they know my motives, | 0:49:19 | 0:49:22 | |
they know my motivation. | 0:49:22 | 0:49:30 | |
And for those to get personally
criticised for supporting | 0:49:30 | 0:49:33 | |
me because I am not
supporting OMOV... | 0:49:33 | 0:49:37 | |
Sure, but would you be happy
if you got the support of | 0:49:37 | 0:49:40 | |
the unions but not
of the membership? | 0:49:40 | 0:49:42 | |
Would that still be, in your view,
a strong enough victory? | 0:49:42 | 0:49:45 | |
I like to think that the membership
will see past the process | 0:49:45 | 0:49:48 | |
and will actually,
like my colleagues who | 0:49:48 | 0:49:49 | |
supported me, agree that... | 0:49:49 | 0:49:50 | |
The process is decided. | 0:49:50 | 0:49:52 | |
We've got to move on now. | 0:49:52 | 0:49:57 | |
We can't talk, 25,000 of us
talking to each other, | 0:49:57 | 0:49:59 | |
we need to talk to the 3 million
people out there who need us. | 0:49:59 | 0:50:02 | |
Yes, I've had a union
support, so has Julie, but, | 0:50:02 | 0:50:04 | |
yes, I have got membership support
because not everybody is obsessed | 0:50:04 | 0:50:07 | |
with OMOV, if I'm honest. | 0:50:07 | 0:50:08 | |
Most people can see
past that and see | 0:50:08 | 0:50:10 | |
that they need the best person
for the job | 0:50:10 | 0:50:13 | |
and that we need to look
beyond the process. | 0:50:13 | 0:50:16 | |
As a female politician,
how safe a place do you think | 0:50:16 | 0:50:20 | |
politics is for women in Wales
specifically, and what will your | 0:50:20 | 0:50:22 | |
role be in trying to prove that? | 0:50:22 | 0:50:27 | |
I personally, myself,
have come under | 0:50:27 | 0:50:29 | |
some really nasty personal attacks, | 0:50:29 | 0:50:31 | |
so I understand it is
very uncomfortable. | 0:50:31 | 0:50:34 | |
It is uncomfortable for men,
it's not just women | 0:50:34 | 0:50:36 | |
who are vulnerable to this. | 0:50:36 | 0:50:37 | |
But I think that we need
to be supporting women | 0:50:37 | 0:50:42 | |
to understand how they
can best tackle it. | 0:50:42 | 0:50:44 | |
Some people say grow a second skin,
it's not always possible to | 0:50:44 | 0:50:47 | |
grow a second skin when
people are being really | 0:50:47 | 0:50:50 | |
personal about you,
so | 0:50:50 | 0:50:51 | |
I think we do need to be better
at nurturing and supporting | 0:50:51 | 0:50:57 | |
on all aspects of
involvement with the party. | 0:50:57 | 0:51:00 | |
I am really happy... | 0:51:00 | 0:51:00 | |
I am a good listener. | 0:51:00 | 0:51:02 | |
I am a good talker but I am
a good listener, and I've | 0:51:02 | 0:51:05 | |
got a big heart and a big
mouth, so I can actually be | 0:51:05 | 0:51:08 | |
what I need to be
for everyone. | 0:51:08 | 0:51:09 | |
Thank you very much. | 0:51:09 | 0:51:11 | |
Thank you. | 0:51:11 | 0:51:18 | |
In just a couple of weeks, Wales
will be collecting its first taxes | 0:51:18 | 0:51:22 | |
in its own right as a country ever,
or at least since the days of the | 0:51:22 | 0:51:28 | |
13th century, so are we ready, and
how big is steak is this? We have | 0:51:28 | 0:51:32 | |
been looking through the history
books. | 0:51:32 | 0:51:34 | |
A new page of Welsh history
is set to be written. | 0:51:34 | 0:51:37 | |
On the 1st of April 2018,
Wales will once again take | 0:51:37 | 0:51:40 | |
charge of some of its taxes. | 0:51:40 | 0:51:45 | |
The last time any kind
of taxes were collected | 0:51:45 | 0:51:48 | |
by Welsh authorities | 0:51:48 | 0:51:49 | |
was nearly 800 years ago. | 0:51:49 | 0:51:51 | |
Since Tyler's church,
now rebuilt here, | 0:51:51 | 0:51:53 | |
dates from that time. | 0:51:53 | 0:51:56 | |
As you'd expect, back then,
Wales was a very different place. | 0:51:56 | 0:52:01 | |
When we think about Wales
in the Middle Ages, we think | 0:52:01 | 0:52:03 | |
about it a four different
independent countries. | 0:52:03 | 0:52:07 | |
Gwynedd, Powys and then
what is now Ceredigion. | 0:52:07 | 0:52:09 | |
Those three, together with one that
disappeared just after the | 0:52:09 | 0:52:11 | |
Normans turned up, pulled
and tugged against each other | 0:52:11 | 0:52:15 | |
for the whole of the Middle Ages. | 0:52:15 | 0:52:17 | |
There never really was a single,
you know, country, | 0:52:17 | 0:52:20 | |
as we would think. | 0:52:20 | 0:52:21 | |
They were all taxed differently. | 0:52:21 | 0:52:24 | |
In terms of all of what we know
was Wales being taxed in | 0:52:24 | 0:52:28 | |
a uniform fashion, this
is the first time in history. | 0:52:28 | 0:52:31 | |
So, what taxes are on
the cards for April? | 0:52:31 | 0:52:33 | |
The land transaction tax,
which replaces the old stamp duty on | 0:52:33 | 0:52:36 | |
property, and the landfill disposal
tax, which replaces Westminster's | 0:52:36 | 0:52:38 | |
landfill tax. | 0:52:38 | 0:52:43 | |
These will be collected
by the Welsh Revenue Authority, | 0:52:43 | 0:52:45 | |
from their new base. | 0:52:45 | 0:52:48 | |
We are a small but highly
specialised organisation. | 0:52:48 | 0:52:50 | |
So, we are going to be about
70 people, and yet we are | 0:52:50 | 0:52:55 | |
going to have to be able to offer
the same sort of suite of services | 0:52:55 | 0:52:58 | |
that you would expect from HMRC. | 0:52:58 | 0:53:00 | |
The biggest change, anyway,
is that these new taxes we pay | 0:53:00 | 0:53:08 | |
to the WRA, it's what happens
afterwards, | 0:53:08 | 0:53:09 | |
in a way, it's the biggest change. | 0:53:09 | 0:53:11 | |
That money is then specifically for
Welsh Government to spend on public | 0:53:11 | 0:53:14 | |
services in Wales, and so there
is no connection to London. | 0:53:14 | 0:53:16 | |
But Plaid Cymru's economic
adviser is doubtful | 0:53:16 | 0:53:18 | |
much will change. | 0:53:18 | 0:53:19 | |
Do you think there will be
more spending | 0:53:19 | 0:53:21 | |
on public services? | 0:53:21 | 0:53:22 | |
I doubt it, because the ideal way
is getting more spending, | 0:53:22 | 0:53:27 | |
getting more tax revenue is not
to put up the rate of tax, | 0:53:27 | 0:53:30 | |
it is not to increase tax
but build the economy. | 0:53:30 | 0:53:32 | |
If you grow the economy,
you grow the tax base | 0:53:32 | 0:53:35 | |
without putting up the rates of tax. | 0:53:35 | 0:53:37 | |
And how will these new powers change
the Assembly's role in | 0:53:37 | 0:53:39 | |
deciding which taxes are collected? | 0:53:39 | 0:53:41 | |
Assembly Members will be
able to block them, | 0:53:41 | 0:53:43 | |
if they so choose to,
| 0:53:43 | 0:53:44 | |
or endorse them, so it
will give them power | 0:53:44 | 0:53:47 | |
now of the equivalent
of the money bill, | 0:53:47 | 0:53:49 | |
but they already have
the power to block the Welsh budget. | 0:53:49 | 0:53:54 | |
They may wish to put riders with
that and also the taxes, | 0:53:54 | 0:53:57 | |
or they might have, you know,
new private members bills | 0:53:57 | 0:53:59 | |
or other bills
to come in | 0:53:59 | 0:54:02 | |
in order to have new taxes
on various products. | 0:54:02 | 0:54:05 | |
You know, for example
plastic bottles | 0:54:05 | 0:54:06 | |
or something like that. | 0:54:06 | 0:54:07 | |
And there are more tax
powers heading this way, | 0:54:07 | 0:54:11 | |
with control over income tax rates | 0:54:11 | 0:54:15 | |
set to be devolved in April next
year. | 0:54:15 | 0:54:17 | |
Scotland has had some income
tax powers since 1999. | 0:54:17 | 0:54:19 | |
The powers here are
quite limited, far more | 0:54:19 | 0:54:22 | |
limited than the Scottish
powers on income tax. | 0:54:22 | 0:54:24 | |
It's going to raise
about £2 billion. | 0:54:24 | 0:54:27 | |
That is 2 billion out
of the 15 billion, roughly, the | 0:54:27 | 0:54:29 | |
Welsh Government spends every year. | 0:54:29 | 0:54:32 | |
It is material, but not that large. | 0:54:32 | 0:54:33 | |
There will be hopes
in the Westminster Government | 0:54:33 | 0:54:37 | |
that the Welsh Government
and Assembly are responsible enough | 0:54:37 | 0:54:41 | |
to enable more powers to be devolved
over tax-raising powers, | 0:54:41 | 0:54:44 | |
and they will probably be
hope within the Assembly | 0:54:44 | 0:54:47 | |
that they can develop more
income streams, | 0:54:47 | 0:54:51 | |
new types of taxation,
to increase their own spending. | 0:54:51 | 0:54:57 | |
So, the 1st of April,
a day for the history books. | 0:54:57 | 0:55:00 | |
But, of course, we all
know that, in the end, | 0:55:00 | 0:55:02 | |
no matter who collects the taxes,
we still have to pay them. | 0:55:02 | 0:55:10 | |
Now, we know there is going to be a
Metro transport system in South East | 0:55:14 | 0:55:18 | |
Wills, and also north Wales, and
there are also plans for a network | 0:55:18 | 0:55:21 | |
in the Swansea Bay region, but how
should it work? There is a call for | 0:55:21 | 0:55:27 | |
it to be based not on trains and
trams but a system of driverless | 0:55:27 | 0:55:30 | |
vehicles. The region could lead the
way and developing alternative | 0:55:30 | 0:55:34 | |
transport like this, and the man who
said that joins me now. I will not | 0:55:34 | 0:55:39 | |
ask a UK men, whether or not any
driverless vehicle, but that is your | 0:55:39 | 0:55:43 | |
proposal, instead of having these
trends, you just call a driverless | 0:55:43 | 0:55:48 | |
vehicle and it takes you really want
to go? He eats for getting people to | 0:55:48 | 0:55:54 | |
replace car journeys with public
transport is having a turn up and go | 0:55:54 | 0:55:57 | |
public transport system. In London,
you do not have to wait very long | 0:55:57 | 0:56:01 | |
before something comes up. That is
clearly not the case in London, you | 0:56:01 | 0:56:03 | |
do not have to wait very long before
something comes up. That is clearly | 0:56:03 | 0:56:06 | |
not the case and well. In parts of
the country, the last bus leaves at | 0:56:06 | 0:56:09 | |
4pm. There are four trains per day
from some places to Swansea, or a | 0:56:09 | 0:56:14 | |
bus that takes you to and a half
hours for a 30 minute card running. | 0:56:14 | 0:56:18 | |
You will not persuade people to give
up their car in those circumstances, | 0:56:18 | 0:56:23 | |
so how can we realistically create a
turn up and caught transport system | 0:56:23 | 0:56:26 | |
in Swansea Bay? You cannot rely on
the train network, as you would in | 0:56:26 | 0:56:29 | |
the valleys, so we need to think
imaginatively. I am then, let's not | 0:56:29 | 0:56:35 | |
play catch up, let's try to
leapfrog. When you see leapfrog and | 0:56:35 | 0:56:39 | |
catch up, you are suggesting these
driverless vehicles, which are being | 0:56:39 | 0:56:43 | |
tested, they are being used in
places like Greenwich in London | 0:56:43 | 0:56:48 | |
already, but it is an emerging
technology at best. I guess the | 0:56:48 | 0:56:52 | |
problem could be at the risk to
boot, you know, your eggs in that | 0:56:52 | 0:56:55 | |
basket, because it may not work on
end. The Swansea Bay region is just | 0:56:55 | 0:57:02 | |
a concept, an outline study being
commissioned. These things are | 0:57:02 | 0:57:04 | |
moving very quickly. Six years ago,
Hooper did not exist. Half of all | 0:57:04 | 0:57:09 | |
journeys in London are now made by
Goober, and they have a pool | 0:57:09 | 0:57:17 | |
servers, which is basically a
minibus. -- are made by Uber. That | 0:57:17 | 0:57:24 | |
sort of technology is already making
existing large, empty buses | 0:57:24 | 0:57:29 | |
redundant. People do not want to go
on them. You add automated vehicles | 0:57:29 | 0:57:32 | |
into the mix and the UK government
expect them to be on sale in the UK | 0:57:32 | 0:57:38 | |
in three years. This is happening
quickly. Let's not try to create a | 0:57:38 | 0:57:44 | |
Manchester or Sheffield - type tram
system, we are 30 years behind the | 0:57:44 | 0:57:48 | |
curve. Let's try to leapfrog, using
new technology and creating the | 0:57:48 | 0:57:52 | |
Swansea Bay region as a test-bed, to
try out the driverless technology. | 0:57:52 | 0:57:58 | |
We can try out wireless recharging.
We can go through the regulatory | 0:57:58 | 0:58:02 | |
barriers and access hurdles, so we
see come to us, experiment here, we | 0:58:02 | 0:58:06 | |
will underpin it with the five G
test-bed, and let's do something | 0:58:06 | 0:58:08 | |
exciting. Is the danger not, it is
exciting, it could work, but the | 0:58:08 | 0:58:13 | |
problem is you are saying testing
out a novel lot of new technologies. | 0:58:13 | 0:58:18 | |
Maybe people in Swansea Bay did not
want to be the guinea pigs. Stop | 0:58:18 | 0:58:23 | |
being so conservative! Look at the
power that we have. It is public | 0:58:23 | 0:58:28 | |
money. Look at broadband. We spend
tens of million pounds to | 0:58:28 | 0:58:36 | |
tens of million pounds to give BT
old-fashioned telephone cabinets | 0:58:37 | 0:58:41 | |
with copper wire, but if you had
started with fibre, this is an exact | 0:58:41 | 0:58:46 | |
parallel. For too long, we have been
playing catch-up and are not very | 0:58:46 | 0:58:49 | |
good. We take ages and the result is
often pretty shoddy. We are starting | 0:58:49 | 0:58:55 | |
from a blank sheet of paper, let's
go straight to the future solution, | 0:58:55 | 0:58:59 | |
rather than playing catch up. This
comes across the desk of the economy | 0:58:59 | 0:59:05 | |
and transport Secretary, we know he
is quite keen on driverless | 0:59:05 | 0:59:09 | |
vehicles, he wants Welsh roads to be
tested... Test centres for | 0:59:09 | 0:59:14 | |
driverless vehicles, do you think
you would go something like this? I | 0:59:14 | 0:59:17 | |
am hoping he will. Things are moving
quick. The place we are currently | 0:59:17 | 0:59:23 | |
moving, the Cardiff and valleys
Metro is moving very slowly because | 0:59:23 | 0:59:26 | |
that is complex. In the next five
years, you will not see many new | 0:59:26 | 0:59:29 | |
services because of all of the
transferring of the track and | 0:59:29 | 0:59:31 | |
converting it to L. All
prerequisites to get a real system | 0:59:31 | 0:59:34 | |
working in a different way.
Driverless technology offers us the | 0:59:34 | 0:59:39 | |
chance to not bother with that and
having these car sharing, lift | 0:59:39 | 0:59:43 | |
sharing pods coming around and
within every want to go. The | 0:59:43 | 0:59:46 | |
exciting thing with machine
learning, artificial intelligence, | 0:59:46 | 0:59:49 | |
it is changing rapidly. What machine
learning will do if the computer | 0:59:49 | 0:59:54 | |
algorithm will create the routes
where people want to go, so you | 0:59:54 | 0:59:57 | |
won't have timetables, it will go
from maps, two apps. That is the | 0:59:57 | 1:00:03 | |
exciting opportunity here. Do you
think there would need to be a | 1:00:03 | 1:00:07 | |
hybrid, will you would have to have
some of those buses and trains, as | 1:00:07 | 1:00:10 | |
well as having these boards, and
then it becomes incredibly expensive | 1:00:10 | 1:00:14 | |
to deliver all of that? To begin
with, clearly, we will have to | 1:00:14 | 1:00:18 | |
transition is, which is why we will
need a test-bed to work this out. | 1:00:18 | 1:00:21 | |
But if we can crack it in certain
areas, we can be the place that | 1:00:21 | 1:00:26 | |
people look to to see what the
future of public transport looks | 1:00:26 | 1:00:28 | |
like, rather than trying to ape part
of England 20 to 30 years ahead of | 1:00:28 | 1:00:32 | |
us. You see it will not happen any
Jensen, how much of a timetable, if | 1:00:32 | 1:00:36 | |
you excuse the pun, how soon do you
think this could be in place? We | 1:00:36 | 1:00:42 | |
need to start the planning now
because driverless vehicles will be | 1:00:42 | 1:00:46 | |
on UK roads within three years. It
is happening at pace. We need to be | 1:00:46 | 1:00:51 | |
all over it. There is a broader
economic point. I do not want | 1:00:51 | 1:00:57 | |
Swansea Bay to be committing that
the Cardiff. We need to start | 1:00:57 | 1:01:04 | |
creating a public transport system
that creates viable, vibrant | 1:01:04 | 1:01:08 | |
communities. That is it from me, but
we are on Twitter of course. For | 1:01:08 | 1:01:12 | |
now, thank | 1:01:12 | 1:01:15 | |
the consensus. We will have to leave
it there, back to Sarah. Welcome | 1:01:25 | 1:01:25 | |
back. | 1:01:25 | 1:01:27 | |
A row has erupted in the influential
Brexit Select Committee of MPs. | 1:01:27 | 1:01:31 | |
The majority of pro-Remain MPs
on the committee, led | 1:01:31 | 1:01:33 | |
by the Labour Chairman Hilary Benn,
have backed a report saying | 1:01:33 | 1:01:35 | |
that the Article 50 process may
need to be extended, | 1:01:35 | 1:01:38 | |
so that Brexit would happen
later than March 2019. | 1:01:38 | 1:01:40 | |
But that infuriated the minority
of pro-Brexit MPs on the committee, | 1:01:40 | 1:01:43 | |
who have published their own report,
which says that delaying | 1:01:43 | 1:01:45 | |
Brexit would not respect
the referendum result. | 1:01:45 | 1:01:47 | |
One of those pro-Brexit MPs
on the committee, Jacob Rees-Mogg, | 1:01:47 | 1:01:49 | |
said: "The majority report
is the prospectus | 1:01:49 | 1:01:51 | |
for the vassal state. | 1:01:51 | 1:01:52 | |
It is a future not worthy of us
as a country, and I am sure that | 1:01:52 | 1:01:56 | |
Theresa May will rightly reject
a report by the high | 1:01:56 | 1:01:58 | |
priests of Remain." | 1:01:58 | 1:02:04 | |
The majority report is an attempt
to keep us in the EU | 1:02:06 | 1:02:09 | |
by sleight of hand." | 1:02:09 | 1:02:09 | |
The Committee Chairman is Labour MP
Hilary Benn and he joins me now. | 1:02:09 | 1:02:13 | |
Have you been called a high priest
before? Many things but never a high | 1:02:13 | 1:02:18 | |
Have you been called a high priest
priest. He says you are trying to | 1:02:18 | 1:02:20 | |
delay Brexit | 1:02:20 | 1:02:22 | |
priest. He says you are trying to
because you are | 1:02:22 | 1:02:24 | |
priest. He says you are trying to
Remainer. That's not the case, not | 1:02:24 | 1:02:25 | |
about undermining the referendum
result, is about the problem we | 1:02:25 | 1:02:28 | |
face, there are seven months to go | 1:02:28 | 1:02:30 | |
result, is about the problem we
until the Article 50 negotiations | 1:02:30 | 1:02:32 | |
are due to end. There | 1:02:32 | 1:02:34 | |
until the Article 50 negotiations
host of issues that have | 1:02:34 | 1:02:37 | |
until the Article 50 negotiations
been addressed. We haven't started | 1:02:37 | 1:02:37 | |
negotiating our future economic
relationship, what will happen to | 1:02:37 | 1:02:41 | |
trade, services, 80% of the British
economy's services, how will we work | 1:02:41 | 1:02:47 | |
trade, services, 80% of the British
together on defence, foreign policy | 1:02:47 | 1:02:47 | |
and security, really important | 1:02:47 | 1:02:51 | |
together on defence, foreign policy
the wake of the Salisbury attack, | 1:02:51 | 1:02:56 | |
cooperating on aviation safety, food | 1:02:56 | 1:02:57 | |
the wake of the Salisbury attack,
safety, medicines, research, and | 1:02:57 | 1:03:00 | |
the wake of the Salisbury attack,
question of how to keep an open | 1:03:00 | 1:03:00 | |
border between Northern Ireland | 1:03:00 | 1:03:05 | |
question of how to keep an open
be set out by October? We didn't set | 1:03:05 | 1:03:06 | |
the deadline of the sort of the
the deadline of the sort of the | 1:03:06 | 1:03:08 | |
negotiating process | 1:03:08 | 1:03:10 | |
the deadline of the sort of the
pointed out when the deal is agreed | 1:03:10 | 1:03:17 | |
-- European Council. If there | 1:03:18 | 1:03:19 | |
-- European Council. If there are a
whole load of things that have not | 1:03:19 | 1:03:23 | |
whole load of things that have not
yet been negotiated the government | 1:03:23 | 1:03:23 | |
could ask | 1:03:23 | 1:03:25 | |
yet been negotiated the government
Article 50 process and one of the | 1:03:25 | 1:03:27 | |
things that we say is when David
Davis came to give evidence to us, | 1:03:27 | 1:03:31 | |
he said we don't want to | 1:03:31 | 1:03:33 | |
Davis came to give evidence to us,
negotiating really important issues | 1:03:33 | 1:03:34 | |
Davis came to give evidence to us,
in the transition period because the | 1:03:34 | 1:03:36 | |
Davis came to give evidence to us,
balance of power changes. What we | 1:03:36 | 1:03:38 | |
are seeing is the best way to get
are seeing is the best way to get | 1:03:38 | 1:03:41 | |
the best deal for the British people
is to do so when you have the | 1:03:41 | 1:03:43 | |
is to do so when you have the
maximum negotiating clout and that | 1:03:43 | 1:03:44 | |
is during the Article 50 period.
Without a hard deadline of the two | 1:03:44 | 1:03:50 | |
years since triggering Article 50,
the EU could just delay and delay | 1:03:50 | 1:03:54 | |
years since triggering Article 50,
and delay this to the point that it | 1:03:54 | 1:03:55 | |
is a | 1:03:55 | 1:03:59 | |
and delay this to the point that it
as not leaving the EU. The body | 1:03:59 | 1:04:00 | |
wants a never-ending process. | 1:04:00 | 1:04:02 | |
as not leaving the EU. The body
be some in the EU who wouldn't mind, | 1:04:02 | 1:04:05 | |
as not leaving the EU. The body
they would prefer it to a | 1:04:05 | 1:04:06 | |
as not leaving the EU. The body
Brexit. They might | 1:04:06 | 1:04:08 | |
as not leaving the EU. The body
referendum decision has | 1:04:08 | 1:04:11 | |
as not leaving the EU. The body
We have seen another example this | 1:04:11 | 1:04:11 | |
week, Chris Grayling, the Transport
Secretary, said we would | 1:04:11 | 1:04:15 | |
week, Chris Grayling, the Transport
to put checks on goods coming in to | 1:04:15 | 1:04:18 | |
week, Chris Grayling, the Transport
Dover. Knows that the customs | 1:04:18 | 1:04:21 | |
week, Chris Grayling, the Transport
relations are not ready so these are | 1:04:21 | 1:04:23 | |
week, Chris Grayling, the Transport
serious issues that face the | 1:04:23 | 1:04:23 | |
country. Or the businesses I speak
to so we understand how it works | 1:04:23 | 1:04:31 | |
today and can you tell us how it
will work tomorrow when we have left | 1:04:31 | 1:04:34 | |
and the answer is we don't | 1:04:34 | 1:04:37 | |
will work tomorrow when we have left
because we haven't negotiated it. It | 1:04:37 | 1:04:39 | |
will work tomorrow when we have left
is about taking a sufficient time to | 1:04:39 | 1:04:39 | |
get a decent deal. Everybody | 1:04:39 | 1:04:41 | |
is about taking a sufficient time to
that the detailed negotiation is | 1:04:41 | 1:04:42 | |
going to take place during the
transition period because you are | 1:04:42 | 1:04:45 | |
not going to | 1:04:45 | 1:04:49 | |
between now and October. Would you
need to impose another hard deadline | 1:04:49 | 1:04:51 | |
between now and October. Would you
in order to keep minds focused. Not | 1:04:51 | 1:04:57 | |
allow the balance of power to shift
to those in the EU who could delay | 1:04:57 | 1:05:01 | |
and delay if this is an open-ended | 1:05:01 | 1:05:03 | |
to those in the EU who could delay
and this would only happen if the | 1:05:03 | 1:05:05 | |
government were to ask for it. It | 1:05:05 | 1:05:07 | |
and this would only happen if the
other EU 27. Of all of the other | 1:05:07 | 1:05:10 | |
member states. But it is about
having flexibility, remember the row | 1:05:10 | 1:05:14 | |
when the government put a hard | 1:05:14 | 1:05:16 | |
having flexibility, remember the row
deadline of 11 o'clock on the 29th | 1:05:16 | 1:05:16 | |
of March? Lots of people including | 1:05:16 | 1:05:19 | |
deadline of 11 o'clock on the 29th
Conservative said this is | 1:05:19 | 1:05:21 | |
deadline of 11 o'clock on the 29th
sensible. When you are engaged in | 1:05:21 | 1:05:22 | |
deadline of 11 o'clock on the 29th
negotiation that is as complex and | 1:05:22 | 1:05:24 | |
challenging as this, to | 1:05:24 | 1:05:26 | |
negotiation that is as complex and
absolutely hard deadline | 1:05:26 | 1:05:27 | |
negotiation that is as complex and
help you get the right outcome for | 1:05:27 | 1:05:29 | |
the British people. There is | 1:05:29 | 1:05:31 | |
help you get the right outcome for
accusation from the people on your | 1:05:31 | 1:05:32 | |
committee who don't agree with your | 1:05:32 | 1:05:34 | |
accusation from the people on your
conclusions who published | 1:05:34 | 1:05:39 | |
conclusions who published this
minority report, which is that you | 1:05:39 | 1:05:41 | |
conclusions who published this
are trying to keep | 1:05:41 | 1:05:43 | |
Single Market and customs union by
the back door using the Irish border | 1:05:43 | 1:05:45 | |
issue to do that. | 1:05:45 | 1:05:48 | |
preferred outcome that we stayed in
issue to do that. | 1:05:48 | 1:05:49 | |
this customs union and Single
Market. It is my preferred point, | 1:05:49 | 1:05:53 | |
position but they have not reached a
decision in the review. The | 1:05:53 | 1:05:57 | |
government set a high bar on the
Irish border, it wants | 1:05:57 | 1:06:02 | |
government set a high bar on the
no infrastructure, and I agree. As | 1:06:02 | 1:06:03 | |
things stand at the moment, because
the government hasn't come forward | 1:06:03 | 1:06:06 | |
things stand at the moment, because
with a proposal as to how to deliver | 1:06:06 | 1:06:09 | |
things stand at the moment, because
that in practice, we don't see how | 1:06:09 | 1:06:13 | |
things stand at the moment, because
you can reconcile that objective | 1:06:13 | 1:06:13 | |
with the Government's commitment to
leave the Single Market and customs | 1:06:13 | 1:06:16 | |
union. This will come back again and
again in the negotiations until it | 1:06:16 | 1:06:20 | |
is resolved. My own personal view is
is resolved. My own personal view | 1:06:20 | 1:06:23 | |
staying in a customs union would
is resolved. My own personal view | 1:06:23 | 1:06:24 | |
staying in a customs union would
provide part of the answer | 1:06:24 | 1:06:26 | |
staying in a customs union would
keeping that border open, which is | 1:06:26 | 1:06:26 | |
what everyone says they want. It is
a pretty rotten state of affairs | 1:06:26 | 1:06:31 | |
a pretty rotten state of affairs
when your Select Committee produces | 1:06:31 | 1:06:33 | |
majority and minority report | 1:06:33 | 1:06:35 | |
when your Select Committee produces
are clearly absolutely split on | 1:06:35 | 1:06:38 | |
when your Select Committee produces
principles of this. It is not | 1:06:38 | 1:06:39 | |
unprecedented but I wish we | 1:06:39 | 1:06:41 | |
principles of this. It is not
able to reach agreement. You know | 1:06:41 | 1:06:42 | |
what, the referendum showed the | 1:06:42 | 1:06:44 | |
able to reach agreement. You know
nation was divided down | 1:06:44 | 1:06:46 | |
able to reach agreement. You know
the Cabinet is divided, there are | 1:06:46 | 1:06:47 | |
different views in Parliament, it's
not entirely surprising that we find | 1:06:47 | 1:06:50 | |
different views in Parliament, it's
that reflected in the Select | 1:06:50 | 1:06:53 | |
different views in Parliament, it's
Committee I have the honour to be | 1:06:53 | 1:06:54 | |
the chair of. Thank you, we will
pick up some Brexit issues and some | 1:06:54 | 1:06:58 | |
the chair of. Thank you, we will
more of what will be happening with | 1:06:58 | 1:06:59 | |
Brexit this week with the panel.
Isabel Oakeshott, Hilary Benn has a | 1:06:59 | 1:07:03 | |
Isabel Oakeshott, Hilary Benn has a
point, doesn't he, that his | 1:07:03 | 1:07:05 | |
committee is no war split and,
frankly, the Cabinet, the country or | 1:07:05 | 1:07:09 | |
both political parties are on this
matter? I think that is a fair | 1:07:09 | 1:07:14 | |
both political parties are on this
but on the substantive | 1:07:14 | 1:07:15 | |
both political parties are on this
recommendation about delaying Brexit | 1:07:15 | 1:07:16 | |
further, I cannot see how that could
possibly strengthen our position to | 1:07:16 | 1:07:21 | |
have us begging for more time here.
I think the one thing that I am sure | 1:07:21 | 1:07:27 | |
you here, Hilary Benn, when you | 1:07:27 | 1:07:28 | |
I think the one thing that I am sure
on the | 1:07:28 | 1:07:31 | |
I think the one thing that I am sure
get on with this? People don't want | 1:07:31 | 1:07:31 | |
this process to be any more
elongated. If anything it just | 1:07:31 | 1:07:36 | |
this process to be any more
increases uncertainty for business. | 1:07:36 | 1:07:38 | |
Hillary. Somebody summed this up
beautifully to me the other day, for | 1:07:38 | 1:07:44 | |
beautifully to me the other day, for
something that is apparently so | 1:07:44 | 1:07:46 | |
simple, it's really, really
complicated, isn't it? Over 45 years | 1:07:46 | 1:07:49 | |
we have built this network of
relationships, laws, the ways | 1:07:49 | 1:07:54 | |
we have built this network of
businesses operate. I was at a | 1:07:54 | 1:07:56 | |
conference of the creative
industries on Thursday and they are | 1:07:56 | 1:08:00 | |
concerned about intellectual
property and broadcasting into | 1:08:00 | 1:08:02 | |
concerned about intellectual
Europe, and the ability of musicians | 1:08:02 | 1:08:03 | |
to go on to travel. All sorts of
questions people have got from a | 1:08:03 | 1:08:08 | |
perfectly legitimate ones, | 1:08:08 | 1:08:12 | |
questions people have got from a
it is going to work and is not | 1:08:12 | 1:08:12 | |
entirely surprising, whatever the
frustration people feel, and I | 1:08:12 | 1:08:14 | |
recognise that, it will take time to
sort it out in a way that works for | 1:08:14 | 1:08:18 | |
sort it out in a way that works for
us. It's not about working for | 1:08:18 | 1:08:20 | |
us. It's not about working for
Europe, we want a deal that we can | 1:08:20 | 1:08:22 | |
both agree on, but it's got | 1:08:22 | 1:08:25 | |
Europe, we want a deal that we can
for us and look after our interests, | 1:08:25 | 1:08:27 | |
that's our job. Lucy, David Davis is | 1:08:27 | 1:08:30 | |
for us and look after our interests,
on his way back to Brussels | 1:08:30 | 1:08:31 | |
for us and look after our interests,
negotiations trying to sign off with | 1:08:31 | 1:08:32 | |
Michel Barnier the transition period
of the deal there. What is the issue | 1:08:32 | 1:08:39 | |
that must be decided before the | 1:08:39 | 1:08:44 | |
of the deal there. What is the issue
the week? The main stumbling block | 1:08:44 | 1:08:44 | |
is the Irish | 1:08:44 | 1:08:45 | |
the week? The main stumbling block
Hillary pointed out. | 1:08:45 | 1:08:48 | |
the week? The main stumbling block
position which goes some way to | 1:08:48 | 1:08:50 | |
solving the issue, which is | 1:08:50 | 1:08:52 | |
position which goes some way to
remain in the customs union. A | 1:08:52 | 1:08:56 | |
position which goes some way to
customs union. A customs union, | 1:08:56 | 1:08:56 | |
forgive me. It is hard to see how
that will be established in any kind | 1:08:56 | 1:09:00 | |
of technical, substantive way. We
will have to rely on good to | 1:09:00 | 1:09:05 | |
of technical, substantive way. We
past that at | 1:09:05 | 1:09:07 | |
of technical, substantive way. We
understanding is there are UK fears | 1:09:07 | 1:09:10 | |
of technical, substantive way. We
that Dublin may receive backing from | 1:09:10 | 1:09:11 | |
the Germans and French this week
that will cause more problems on | 1:09:11 | 1:09:14 | |
that but it is essential that the
transition deal is formally agreed | 1:09:14 | 1:09:18 | |
at the European Council this week | 1:09:18 | 1:09:21 | |
transition deal is formally agreed
for two reasons. Firstly, we need | 1:09:21 | 1:09:22 | |
transition deal is formally agreed
move the talks on to the trade | 1:09:22 | 1:09:24 | |
agreement, we want to reach. And
secondly, it | 1:09:24 | 1:09:31 | |
agreement, we want to reach. And
situation will be regarding the UK's | 1:09:31 | 1:09:31 | |
relationship with the EU up to
September 2020. This is the last | 1:09:31 | 1:09:38 | |
moment UK businesses have said | 1:09:38 | 1:09:40 | |
September 2020. This is the last
government can wait to give firm | 1:09:40 | 1:09:42 | |
signals on it before they revert | 1:09:42 | 1:09:45 | |
government can wait to give firm
contingency plans. Hillary talks up | 1:09:45 | 1:09:47 | |
government can wait to give firm
negotiating leverage and we gave our | 1:09:47 | 1:09:49 | |
leveraged away when we invoked
Article 50 without pre-negotiations, | 1:09:49 | 1:09:53 | |
Article 50 without pre-negotiations,
because we put the clock on | 1:09:53 | 1:09:53 | |
ourselves. With and have two years
to negotiate everything and Michel | 1:09:53 | 1:09:59 | |
Barnier set the date and | 1:09:59 | 1:10:01 | |
to negotiate everything and Michel
then go to him to potentially | 1:10:01 | 1:10:04 | |
to negotiate everything and Michel
for more time and I think we have | 1:10:04 | 1:10:04 | |
really put ourselves | 1:10:04 | 1:10:07 | |
for more time and I think we have
position by doing that. Given that | 1:10:07 | 1:10:10 | |
situation, would it be better to go,
situation, would it be better to go, | 1:10:10 | 1:10:12 | |
in your words, begging for more
in your words, begging for more | 1:10:12 | 1:10:13 | |
time, or | 1:10:13 | 1:10:15 | |
in your words, begging for more
that people's mines are concentrated | 1:10:15 | 1:10:19 | |
in your words, begging for more
on getting the deal done? I think | 1:10:19 | 1:10:20 | |
the deadline, the date we are
supposed to be leaving, | 1:10:20 | 1:10:23 | |
the deadline, the date we are
the government in the withdrawal | 1:10:23 | 1:10:23 | |
bill for political reasons. I think
that was all performative really. I | 1:10:23 | 1:10:28 | |
don't think there is is Dummigan
reason why there cannot be | 1:10:28 | 1:10:34 | |
don't think there is is Dummigan
to. If we can | 1:10:34 | 1:10:35 | |
don't think there is is Dummigan
deal in the short term, there is no | 1:10:35 | 1:10:37 | |
reason why we can't, as Hilary said,
I now the details in the transition | 1:10:37 | 1:10:42 | |
period. What other sticking points
on the withdrawal agreement? It | 1:10:42 | 1:10:45 | |
on the withdrawal agreement? It
seems David Davis is saying this | 1:10:45 | 1:10:48 | |
seems David Davis is saying this
week he is relaxed about a | 1:10:48 | 1:10:49 | |
transition | 1:10:49 | 1:10:51 | |
week he is relaxed about a
full two years, only up until | 1:10:51 | 1:10:55 | |
Christmas 2021. It feels a little | 1:10:55 | 1:10:58 | |
full two years, only up until
bit -- not lusting for a full two | 1:10:58 | 1:11:00 | |
years. When we get it is crunch
decisions with the withdrawal | 1:11:00 | 1:11:04 | |
years. When we get it is crunch
agreement and the negotiation | 1:11:04 | 1:11:06 | |
years. When we get it is crunch
transition agreement, that the UK | 1:11:06 | 1:11:07 | |
caves at the last minute. Where | 1:11:07 | 1:11:11 | |
transition agreement, that the UK
we see a win for the UK in these | 1:11:11 | 1:11:13 | |
transition agreement, that the UK
deadlines? Every time we get abuse | 1:11:13 | 1:11:13 | |
crunch | 1:11:13 | 1:11:16 | |
deadlines? Every time we get abuse
Parliament try and cause us to cave. | 1:11:16 | 1:11:17 | |
deadlines? Every time we get abuse
That is a difficulty government has. | 1:11:17 | 1:11:19 | |
deadlines? Every time we get abuse
It has been undermined by its own | 1:11:19 | 1:11:22 | |
deadlines? Every time we get abuse
backbenchers, we have the Brexit | 1:11:22 | 1:11:23 | |
committee coming up with divided | 1:11:23 | 1:11:25 | |
backbenchers, we have the Brexit
reports suggesting more delay. I | 1:11:25 | 1:11:27 | |
think there will be massive push
back on that. I don't think | 1:11:27 | 1:11:31 | |
think there will be massive push
happen. There is no way any | 1:11:31 | 1:11:32 | |
extension of this time period is
acceptable to Theresa May's | 1:11:32 | 1:11:37 | |
extension of this time period is
Brexiteer MPs to whom she is in | 1:11:37 | 1:11:39 | |
hock, so that can't happen. | 1:11:39 | 1:11:43 | |
Brexiteer MPs to whom she is in
problem is, Matt, it is just going | 1:11:43 | 1:11:43 | |
to expand to fill | 1:11:43 | 1:11:46 | |
problem is, Matt, it is just going
available. We need these deadlines, | 1:11:46 | 1:11:47 | |
uncomfortable as they may be, and in
an ideal world we might | 1:11:47 | 1:11:53 | |
uncomfortable as they may be, and in
extra days here or there to fine | 1:11:53 | 1:11:53 | |
tune things, but ultimately nobody
on your side of the | 1:11:53 | 1:11:57 | |
tune things, but ultimately nobody
going to be happy with the time | 1:11:57 | 1:11:59 | |
frame. It will simply expand and | 1:11:59 | 1:12:01 | |
going to be happy with the time
expand and expand until the de facto | 1:12:01 | 1:12:03 | |
going to be happy with the time
we just stay in the. Lucy, | 1:12:03 | 1:12:06 | |
going to be happy with the time
any prospect, given where | 1:12:06 | 1:12:08 | |
going to be happy with the time
the moment waiting to sign off | 1:12:08 | 1:12:10 | |
going to be happy with the time
deal on the transition, that we | 1:12:10 | 1:12:11 | |
going to be happy with the time
have a fully comprehensive trade | 1:12:11 | 1:12:13 | |
agreement in place by October to go
for ratification to the European | 1:12:13 | 1:12:18 | |
Parliament? I think it's looking | 1:12:18 | 1:12:20 | |
for ratification to the European
increasingly unlikely and | 1:12:20 | 1:12:21 | |
for ratification to the European
lots of things that will not be | 1:12:21 | 1:12:23 | |
ready in time, today there are | 1:12:23 | 1:12:26 | |
lots of things that will not be
reports the Cabinet have been | 1:12:26 | 1:12:26 | |
reports the Cabinet have been | 1:12:26 | 1:12:28 | |
briefed on the fact that Customs and
reports the Cabinet have been | 1:12:28 | 1:12:28 | |
briefed on the fact that Customs and
border arrangements are not going to | 1:12:28 | 1:12:30 | |
be in place by Brexit day next
March. There is still a lot | 1:12:30 | 1:12:36 | |
be in place by Brexit day next
questions around that. Going back to | 1:12:36 | 1:12:38 | |
be in place by Brexit day next
the question of the polarisation in | 1:12:38 | 1:12:39 | |
Parliament, in the Cabinet, in the
Parliament, in the Cabinet, in the | 1:12:39 | 1:12:41 | |
country over Brexit and some | 1:12:41 | 1:12:43 | |
Parliament, in the Cabinet, in the
positions government has put | 1:12:43 | 1:12:44 | |
Parliament, in the Cabinet, in the
so far, there are still so many | 1:12:44 | 1:12:46 | |
so far, there are still so many
questions left unanswered. Theresa | 1:12:46 | 1:12:47 | |
May hasn't really filled in | 1:12:47 | 1:12:51 | |
questions left unanswered. Theresa
detail about what you would like to | 1:12:51 | 1:12:51 | |
see with trade and customs and | 1:12:51 | 1:12:53 | |
detail about what you would like to
question marks over how the | 1:12:53 | 1:12:56 | |
government envisages immigration | 1:12:56 | 1:12:57 | |
question marks over how the
working at the Brexit. A | 1:12:57 | 1:13:01 | |
question marks over how the
detail. Thank you to all of my | 1:13:01 | 1:13:02 | |
guests, Lucy Fisher, Isabel
Oakeshott, Matt Zarb-Cousin is an | 1:13:02 | 1:13:06 | |
guests, Lucy Fisher, Isabel
Hilary Benn are still on the set. | 1:13:06 | 1:13:08 | |
Join me again next Sunday
at 11am here on BBC One. | 1:13:08 | 1:13:11 | |
Until then, bye-bye. | 1:13:11 | 1:13:14 |