Sarah Smith and Arwyn Jones' guests are Sir Alan Duncan MP and Yvette Cooper MP. The political panel consists of Isabel Oakeshott, Matthew Zarb-Cousin and Lucy Fisher.
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Morning, everyone, and welcome
to the Sunday Politics. | 0:00:39 | 0:00:40 | |
I'm Sarah Smith.
will provide your essential briefing | 0:00:40 | 0:00:44 | |
on everything that's moving
and shaking in the | 0:00:44 | 0:00:46 | |
world of politics. | 0:00:46 | 0:00:49 | |
The Foreign Secretary accuses Russia
of "smug sarcasm, denial, | 0:00:49 | 0:00:52 | |
obfuscation and delay" in relation
to the Salisbury poisoning case. | 0:00:52 | 0:00:54 | |
As the diplomatic dispute continues,
where will this crisis go next? | 0:00:54 | 0:00:59 | |
Police launch a murder
inquiry in to the death | 0:00:59 | 0:01:02 | |
of another Russian exile. | 0:01:02 | 0:01:06 | |
We speak to the Chair of
the Home Affairs Select Committee. | 0:01:06 | 0:01:09 | |
Should transgender women be included
on Labour's all-women short lists? | 0:01:09 | 0:01:13 | |
The party postpones
a final decision. | 0:01:13 | 0:01:15 | |
While a government consultation
on changing the law | 0:01:15 | 0:01:18 | |
appears to be on hold. | 0:01:18 | 0:01:19 | |
Has the debate on transgender
rights become toxic? | 0:01:19 | 0:01:26 | |
Also coming up:
The ups and downs of two years as | 0:01:26 | 0:01:32 | |
Welsh secretary, and market in your
diaries. Another devolution landmark | 0:01:32 | 0:01:35 | |
on the way. | 0:01:35 | 0:01:41 | |
to make sense of all the big
stories: | 0:01:44 | 0:01:49 | |
Matt Zarb-Cousin, Isabel Oakeshott
and | 0:01:49 | 0:01:52 | |
Now, Russia's Vladimir Putin has
already been out this | 0:01:52 | 0:01:54 | |
morning to cast his vote
in the Presidential elections. | 0:01:54 | 0:01:56 | |
We'll be expecting the result
in the Presidential elections. | 0:01:56 | 0:01:58 | |
but you can probably guess
who the frontrunner is. | 0:01:58 | 0:02:01 | |
It comes at the end of a week
in which UK-Russia relations turned | 0:02:01 | 0:02:04 | |
positively sub-zero. | 0:02:04 | 0:02:07 | |
President Putin. | 0:02:07 | 0:02:08 | |
President Putin. | 0:02:08 | 0:02:11 | |
Is Russia behind the poisoning
of Sergei Skripal? | 0:02:11 | 0:02:13 | |
This week the finger of blame
for the Salisbury attack was | 0:02:13 | 0:02:16 | |
pointed firmly in one direction. | 0:02:16 | 0:02:19 | |
what actually happened | 0:02:20 | 0:02:21 | |
there and then we'll talk about it. | 0:02:21 | 0:02:25 | |
A deadline imposed by
the British government | 0:02:25 | 0:02:28 | |
calling on the Russians to provide
answers came and went. | 0:02:28 | 0:02:30 | |
The Prime Minister headed
to the Commons to update MPs. | 0:02:30 | 0:02:33 | |
They have treated the use
of a military grade nerve agent | 0:02:33 | 0:02:35 | |
in Europe with sarcasm,
contempt and defiance. | 0:02:35 | 0:02:41 | |
The only conclusion, she declared,
was that the Russian state | 0:02:43 | 0:02:48 | |
was responsible for the nerve agent
attack on the Russian double agent | 0:02:48 | 0:02:51 | |
Sergei Skripal and his
daughter Yulia. | 0:02:51 | 0:02:53 | |
23 Russian diplomats based
here accused of being spies are to | 0:02:53 | 0:02:56 | |
be kicked out of the country. | 0:02:56 | 0:02:58 | |
Moscow responded by
expelling 23 British | 0:02:58 | 0:03:00 | |
embassy staff. | 0:03:00 | 0:03:05 | |
UK-Russia relations are well
and truly in the deep freeze. | 0:03:05 | 0:03:08 | |
The Prime Minister's
response to the crisis has | 0:03:08 | 0:03:10 | |
won her some new fans. | 0:03:10 | 0:03:11 | |
Hello. | 0:03:11 | 0:03:13 | |
She got flowers and fist bumps
in Salisbury on Thursday. | 0:03:13 | 0:03:16 | |
The Defence Secretary had his own
idiosyncratic message for Moscow. | 0:03:16 | 0:03:19 | |
Frankly, Russia should go
away, it should shut up. | 0:03:19 | 0:03:23 | |
Go away, it should shut up. | 0:03:23 | 0:03:26 | |
The Foreign Secretary
escalated the row by going | 0:03:26 | 0:03:30 | |
further and directly accusing
Vladimir Putin of personally | 0:03:30 | 0:03:33 | |
ordering the poisoning. | 0:03:33 | 0:03:34 | |
Our quarrel is with Putin's
Kremlin and with his | 0:03:34 | 0:03:38 | |
decision, and we think it
overwhelmingly likely that it was | 0:03:38 | 0:03:43 | |
his decision, to direct
the use of a nerve agent. | 0:03:43 | 0:03:46 | |
Convention dictates
that parties often come | 0:03:46 | 0:03:48 | |
together on major foreign policy
issues but Jeremy Corbyn is not a | 0:03:48 | 0:03:51 | |
conventional politician. | 0:03:51 | 0:03:55 | |
How has she responded to the Russian | 0:03:55 | 0:03:57 | |
government's request for a sample
of the agent used in the Salisbury | 0:03:57 | 0:04:01 | |
attack to run its own tests? | 0:04:01 | 0:04:06 | |
Shameful! | 0:04:06 | 0:04:08 | |
That did not go down
too well with some | 0:04:08 | 0:04:11 | |
of his own MPs who tabled a motion
expressing their support for the | 0:04:11 | 0:04:14 | |
Prime Minister's response. | 0:04:14 | 0:04:15 | |
But Mr Corbyn held
his line, arguing in | 0:04:15 | 0:04:17 | |
Friday's Guardian that we ought not
to discount the possibility that | 0:04:17 | 0:04:19 | |
Russian mafia gangs could have
carried out the attack. | 0:04:19 | 0:04:24 | |
Labour frontbenchers
not exactly been | 0:04:24 | 0:04:27 | |
toeing that line. | 0:04:27 | 0:04:30 | |
We fully support the Government's
action because we | 0:04:30 | 0:04:32 | |
hold Russia responsible. | 0:04:32 | 0:04:33 | |
There is no alternative
explanation other than | 0:04:33 | 0:04:35 | |
that responsibility
lies with Russia. | 0:04:35 | 0:04:38 | |
The US, France and Germany issued
a joint statement of support | 0:04:38 | 0:04:41 | |
for the UK. | 0:04:41 | 0:04:41 | |
It's a very sad situation. | 0:04:41 | 0:04:44 | |
It certainly looks like
the Russians were behind it. | 0:04:44 | 0:04:45 | |
Something that should
never ever happen. | 0:04:45 | 0:04:48 | |
Today is election day in Russia. | 0:04:48 | 0:04:53 | |
And this crisis seems unlikely
to hurt Putin's chances of | 0:04:53 | 0:04:55 | |
re-election as Russia's President. | 0:04:55 | 0:05:00 | |
So to pick up some of that news | 0:05:00 | 0:05:02 | |
So to pick up some of that news | 0:05:02 | 0:05:03 | |
Lucy, later this week the National
Security Council will meet to talk | 0:05:03 | 0:05:09 | |
about what further action the UK
Government Meite, they briefed the | 0:05:09 | 0:05:13 | |
about what further action the UK
BBC there is more in the locker, | 0:05:13 | 0:05:15 | |
that was the phrase the useful
support any idea what they might do | 0:05:15 | 0:05:17 | |
next? There is a whole suite of
options available to the government, | 0:05:17 | 0:05:20 | |
the idea of clamp-down on visas for
dubious Russian businessmen and | 0:05:20 | 0:05:24 | |
dubious Russian businessmen and
their allies wanting to travel to | 0:05:24 | 0:05:26 | |
the UK, there is talk on pulling the
the UK, there is talk on pulling the | 0:05:26 | 0:05:29 | |
plug on RTE, the Kremlin backed
plug on RTE, the Kremlin backed | 0:05:29 | 0:05:33 | |
broadcaster with Ruth Davidson
calling for that they. The most | 0:05:33 | 0:05:36 | |
important action the government
could take is on the wealth, the | 0:05:36 | 0:05:39 | |
Kremlin gold, and money | 0:05:39 | 0:05:42 | |
could take is on the wealth, the
around the UK invested here by | 0:05:42 | 0:05:46 | |
Russian oligarchs are linked to the
Kremlin. Boss of people from Russian | 0:05:46 | 0:05:50 | |
politician stomach opposition | 0:05:50 | 0:05:51 | |
Kremlin. Boss of people from Russian
politicians who think would be the | 0:05:51 | 0:05:54 | |
most effective route. That's what
Labour are calling for and | 0:05:54 | 0:06:00 | |
most effective route. That's what
action the government will go in. | 0:06:00 | 0:06:01 | |
These are quite short-term measures.
These are quite short-term measures. | 0:06:01 | 0:06:04 | |
What we're looking on with Russia is
a much wider, long-term problem. | 0:06:04 | 0:06:07 | |
What a lot of people | 0:06:07 | 0:06:11 | |
a much wider, long-term problem.
circles talk about is a more | 0:06:11 | 0:06:11 | |
asymmetrical response, | 0:06:11 | 0:06:14 | |
circles talk about is a more
than in addition to the measures | 0:06:14 | 0:06:16 | |
Lucy has articulated, you need to | 0:06:16 | 0:06:17 | |
than in addition to the measures
look at the whole suite of things in | 0:06:17 | 0:06:20 | |
terms of the disinformation campaign
that Russia puts out, we need to | 0:06:20 | 0:06:23 | |
that Russia puts out, we need to
look at where we can niggle | 0:06:23 | 0:06:27 | |
that Russia puts out, we need to
by supporting Ukraine a bit, | 0:06:27 | 0:06:28 | |
supporting states like Azerbaijan
and a much more hybrid response, I | 0:06:28 | 0:06:34 | |
think. Matt Zarb-Cousin | 0:06:34 | 0:06:35 | |
and a much more hybrid response, I
has been a lot of discussion | 0:06:35 | 0:06:38 | |
and a much more hybrid response, I
Jeremy Corbyn's response to this | 0:06:38 | 0:06:38 | |
this week. I'm interested, you know
him well, give us an insight | 0:06:38 | 0:06:43 | |
this week. I'm interested, you know
what he is thinking. He supports the | 0:06:43 | 0:06:45 | |
Government's actions while not being
sure about the conclusion that the | 0:06:45 | 0:06:49 | |
Russian state was responsible. Why
support what | 0:06:49 | 0:06:53 | |
Russian state was responsible. Why
don't support the conclusion? I | 0:06:53 | 0:06:54 | |
think the Russian | 0:06:54 | 0:06:55 | |
don't support the conclusion? I
and the Labour Party recognises | 0:06:55 | 0:06:56 | |
and the Labour Party recognises
that. I think we all agree that it | 0:06:56 | 0:06:59 | |
isn't a proportionate response, it
goes nowhere near far enough if the | 0:06:59 | 0:07:02 | |
Russian state is culpable, to just
expel 23 diplomats and say to the | 0:07:02 | 0:07:06 | |
Royal family they are not going to
Royal family they are not going to | 0:07:06 | 0:07:09 | |
the World Cup. So they have to find
out obviously if the Russian state | 0:07:09 | 0:07:12 | |
is culpable, and then once they have
is culpable, and then once they have | 0:07:12 | 0:07:15 | |
the evidence for that then obviously
build that international coalition | 0:07:15 | 0:07:18 | |
where we can actually take
where we can actually take | 0:07:18 | 0:07:20 | |
meaningful action, not these
meaningful action, not these | 0:07:20 | 0:07:22 | |
tokenistic measures. Even closing | 0:07:22 | 0:07:25 | |
meaningful action, not these
down Russia's Russia Today emboldens | 0:07:25 | 0:07:26 | |
Putin, look at the West, they can
censor, he will say. What we really | 0:07:26 | 0:07:32 | |
Putin, look at the West, they can
have to do is go after Putin's kind | 0:07:32 | 0:07:36 | |
of circle. There is oligarchs here,
whether they are pro-or anti-Putin, | 0:07:36 | 0:07:40 | |
who have been allowed to settle here
and stow away their | 0:07:40 | 0:07:45 | |
who have been allowed to settle here
they have been affected by Putin. If | 0:07:45 | 0:07:46 | |
they are then affected by | 0:07:46 | 0:07:49 | |
they have been affected by Putin. If
we say you have to leave, then that | 0:07:49 | 0:07:51 | |
is a very powerful coalition you | 0:07:51 | 0:07:54 | |
we say you have to leave, then that
building against him. But Jeremy | 0:07:54 | 0:07:55 | |
Corbyn still isn't convinced that
the Russian state itself is | 0:07:55 | 0:07:58 | |
responsible. No, neither is the
government. He wouldn't back these | 0:07:58 | 0:08:04 | |
responsible. No, neither is the
actions until they were proved. It | 0:08:04 | 0:08:06 | |
would be naive, it would | 0:08:06 | 0:08:10 | |
actions until they were proved. It
difficult to build an international | 0:08:10 | 0:08:10 | |
coalition. Even the statement that
Germany France and the US | 0:08:10 | 0:08:15 | |
coalition. Even the statement that
the joint statement, said the nerve | 0:08:15 | 0:08:15 | |
the joint statement, said the nerve
agent was of a type developed by | 0:08:15 | 0:08:18 | |
the joint statement, said the nerve
Russia, not that it was developed by | 0:08:18 | 0:08:20 | |
Russia. It looks increasingly likely | 0:08:20 | 0:08:23 | |
Russia, not that it was developed by
that that nerve agent came | 0:08:23 | 0:08:24 | |
Russia, not that it was developed by
Russia and Russia have lost control | 0:08:24 | 0:08:25 | |
of it, or have used it maliciously, | 0:08:25 | 0:08:27 | |
Russia and Russia have lost control
but we don't know that yet and it's | 0:08:27 | 0:08:29 | |
very difficult to take action until
very difficult to take action until | 0:08:29 | 0:08:31 | |
we do. There is a kind of false
dichotomy here in | 0:08:31 | 0:08:37 | |
we do. There is a kind of false
somehow elements of Russian Mafia | 0:08:37 | 0:08:37 | |
might be responsible. Welcome | 0:08:37 | 0:08:39 | |
somehow elements of Russian Mafia
potentially they could be, but the | 0:08:39 | 0:08:41 | |
somehow elements of Russian Mafia
idea that the Russian Mafia | 0:08:41 | 0:08:43 | |
some way completely distinct from
idea that the Russian Mafia | 0:08:43 | 0:08:45 | |
some way completely distinct from
the Kremlin is a misunderstanding. | 0:08:45 | 0:08:47 | |
some way completely distinct from
In a sense, the Russian Mafia is in | 0:08:47 | 0:08:48 | |
extra typically linked to | 0:08:48 | 0:08:52 | |
In a sense, the Russian Mafia is in
Kremlin. They are a sort of | 0:08:52 | 0:08:53 | |
Kremlin. They are a sort of
paramilitary wing of the Kremlin so | 0:08:53 | 0:08:55 | |
it is a false dichotomy. Lucy,
it is a false dichotomy. Lucy, | 0:08:55 | 0:08:58 | |
Jeremy Corbyn has taken a lot | 0:08:58 | 0:09:00 | |
it is a false dichotomy. Lucy,
flak for his response this week. | 0:09:00 | 0:09:01 | |
it is a false dichotomy. Lucy,
Isn't it legitimate to be asking | 0:09:01 | 0:09:03 | |
these questions when, as Matt says,
even the French, US and German | 0:09:03 | 0:09:07 | |
governments don't seem this --
convinced this is state directed? | 0:09:07 | 0:09:13 | |
convinced this is state directed?
Early in the week we saw some level | 0:09:13 | 0:09:16 | |
of prevarication by Paris, Berlin
of prevarication by Paris, Berlin | 0:09:16 | 0:09:18 | |
and Washington and that has firmed
up a lot. I think the quite | 0:09:18 | 0:09:21 | |
unprecedented international joint
statement put out by those allies | 0:09:21 | 0:09:24 | |
and the UK goes a lot further than | 0:09:24 | 0:09:27 | |
statement put out by those allies
you say, Matt. I don't think it's as | 0:09:27 | 0:09:30 | |
equivocal as perhaps | 0:09:30 | 0:09:32 | |
you say, Matt. I don't think it's as
Some of the | 0:09:32 | 0:09:34 | |
you say, Matt. I don't think it's as
asks will kind of strike a chord | 0:09:34 | 0:09:36 | |
with much of the public. I think, in
particular, raising questions about | 0:09:36 | 0:09:42 | |
the intelligence and exactly what is
known is something that | 0:09:42 | 0:09:44 | |
the intelligence and exactly what is
be thinking about in light of the | 0:09:44 | 0:09:47 | |
2003 Iraq War and some of the
evidence being politically sexed up, | 0:09:47 | 0:09:52 | |
people want to know that that's not
people want to know that that's not | 0:09:52 | 0:09:56 | |
the case here. Briefly. We don't
know exactly how much Jeremy Corbyn | 0:09:56 | 0:10:00 | |
had access to in terms of | 0:10:00 | 0:10:03 | |
know exactly how much Jeremy Corbyn
be that the government... Boris | 0:10:03 | 0:10:05 | |
Johnson and the Defence Secretary
Gavin Williamson have gone much | 0:10:05 | 0:10:08 | |
Gavin Williamson have gone much | 0:10:08 | 0:10:09 | |
further and said... Boris Johnson
said it is Putin. Overwhelmingly | 0:10:09 | 0:10:11 | |
likely. Williamson said they should | 0:10:11 | 0:10:15 | |
said it is Putin. Overwhelmingly
shut up and go away, or whatever he | 0:10:15 | 0:10:17 | |
said. That suggests to me they are
either going off message or they | 0:10:17 | 0:10:20 | |
either going off message or they
have seen more evidence that perhaps | 0:10:20 | 0:10:23 | |
either going off message or they
Corbyn has not seen. These are | 0:10:23 | 0:10:25 | |
either going off message or they
questions we will explore throughout | 0:10:25 | 0:10:25 | |
the show and if you stay with | 0:10:25 | 0:10:27 | |
questions we will explore throughout
will talk to you throughout the | 0:10:27 | 0:10:29 | |
programme. | 0:10:29 | 0:10:30 | |
Well, let's stick with this story
because the Foreign Secretary has | 0:10:30 | 0:10:33 | |
been speaking on the Andrew
Marr Show this morning. | 0:10:33 | 0:10:35 | |
He was asked how the Government
could be certain that the Russian | 0:10:35 | 0:10:38 | |
Government was responsible
for the attack. | 0:10:38 | 0:10:39 | |
We actually have evidence within the
last ten years that | 0:10:39 | 0:10:46 | |
We actually have evidence within the
only been investigating the delivery | 0:10:46 | 0:10:46 | |
of nerve agents for the purposes of
assassination, but has also been | 0:10:46 | 0:10:53 | |
creating and stockpiling Novichok.
To the best of our knowledge, this | 0:10:53 | 0:10:55 | |
is a Russian-made nerve agent that
falls within the category Novichok, | 0:10:55 | 0:11:01 | |
made only by Russia. | 0:11:01 | 0:11:04 | |
I'm joined now by the Foreign Office
Minister Sir Alan Duncan. | 0:11:04 | 0:11:08 | |
Thank you for talking to us this
morning. Russia have responded, as | 0:11:08 | 0:11:12 | |
you know, to our expansion --
expulsion of 23 Russian diplomats by | 0:11:12 | 0:11:20 | |
closing the consulate in St
Petersburg. Is there a second phase | 0:11:20 | 0:11:24 | |
of government action that | 0:11:24 | 0:11:26 | |
Petersburg. Is there a second phase
to be reintroduced in order to take | 0:11:26 | 0:11:27 | |
Petersburg. Is there a second phase
this further? We have lots of | 0:11:27 | 0:11:31 | |
options. But this isn't just about
counting heads. This is really about | 0:11:31 | 0:11:38 | |
options. But this isn't just about
making clear to the world | 0:11:38 | 0:11:40 | |
options. But this isn't just about
of the great achievements of the | 0:11:40 | 0:11:41 | |
world since the Second World | 0:11:41 | 0:11:44 | |
of the great achievements of the
which is a convention to ban | 0:11:44 | 0:11:45 | |
which is a convention to ban
chemical weapons, has been | 0:11:45 | 0:11:47 | |
which is a convention to ban
And it is clearly traceable back to | 0:11:47 | 0:11:52 | |
a military grade nerve agent of
Russian origin. We said | 0:11:52 | 0:11:56 | |
a military grade nerve agent of
Russians either you did it directly | 0:11:56 | 0:11:58 | |
or you have lost control of this, | 0:11:58 | 0:12:00 | |
Russians either you did it directly
tell us which. They basically just | 0:12:00 | 0:12:01 | |
tell us which. They basically just | 0:12:01 | 0:12:04 | |
stuck their tongue out at us. Their
irresponsible response to this | 0:12:04 | 0:12:07 | |
points ever more to them as having
done this, and so the response that | 0:12:07 | 0:12:11 | |
we have done I think is | 0:12:11 | 0:12:14 | |
done this, and so the response that
proportionate. Yes, they | 0:12:14 | 0:12:15 | |
done this, and so the response that
responded back. But what | 0:12:15 | 0:12:18 | |
done this, and so the response that
more than anything else is not that | 0:12:18 | 0:12:18 | |
we now go into some kind of
tit-for-tat stuff by accounting | 0:12:18 | 0:12:21 | |
exact numbers and things like that,
is that we actually corral the whole | 0:12:21 | 0:12:26 | |
world to realise that Russia | 0:12:26 | 0:12:27 | |
is that we actually corral the whole
totally out of order here and that | 0:12:27 | 0:12:30 | |
the Chemical Weapons Convention has
been violated in a way that could do | 0:12:30 | 0:12:34 | |
enormous damage to the world in any
enormous damage to the world in any | 0:12:34 | 0:12:36 | |
country this happens to happen in,
country this happens to happen in, | 0:12:36 | 0:12:39 | |
in this case the UK, and that | 0:12:39 | 0:12:41 | |
country this happens to happen in,
what we will do. You are calling for | 0:12:41 | 0:12:42 | |
what we will do. You are calling for
a concerted international action, | 0:12:42 | 0:12:45 | |
what would that look like? We are
already very grateful to the very | 0:12:45 | 0:12:50 | |
clear response we have had from a
lot of countries. I | 0:12:50 | 0:12:55 | |
clear response we have had from a
Balkans over the weekend with | 0:12:55 | 0:12:56 | |
Balkans over the weekend with
countries like Macedonia and Kosovo, | 0:12:56 | 0:12:59 | |
and they were very, very clear in | 0:12:59 | 0:13:01 | |
countries like Macedonia and Kosovo,
their condemnation of this, because | 0:13:01 | 0:13:02 | |
they themselves are countries which
suffer from wider Russian | 0:13:02 | 0:13:06 | |
interference. But we have the EU
foreign ministers meeting tomorrow, | 0:13:06 | 0:13:12 | |
interference. But we have the EU
they will be a Prime Minister level | 0:13:12 | 0:13:12 | |
March European Council on Friday, we
have already had an open discussion | 0:13:12 | 0:13:16 | |
have already had an open discussion
in the UN at which the Russian | 0:13:16 | 0:13:19 | |
representative cut a very, very
lonely figure, and this is clearly a | 0:13:19 | 0:13:22 | |
representative cut a very, very
Russian violation of the Chemical | 0:13:22 | 0:13:23 | |
Weapons Convention and we will
cooperate with the Organisation for | 0:13:23 | 0:13:29 | |
the Prohibition of Chemical | 0:13:29 | 0:13:31 | |
cooperate with the Organisation for
to prove even further what we | 0:13:31 | 0:13:33 | |
cooperate with the Organisation for
to be the case. When it comes to | 0:13:33 | 0:13:35 | |
international action, a former UK | 0:13:35 | 0:13:37 | |
to be the case. When it comes to
ambassador to Russia, agrees with | 0:13:37 | 0:13:38 | |
to be the case. When it comes to
you that we need to take action | 0:13:38 | 0:13:40 | |
along with others and says the
sanctions imposed by the EU after | 0:13:40 | 0:13:45 | |
Crimea 2014 surprise | 0:13:45 | 0:13:48 | |
sanctions imposed by the EU after
continue to have an impact because | 0:13:48 | 0:13:49 | |
they were EU wide, but went on to | 0:13:49 | 0:13:51 | |
continue to have an impact because
say Brexit has made Britain's task | 0:13:51 | 0:13:54 | |
harder in appealing for EU | 0:13:54 | 0:13:57 | |
say Brexit has made Britain's task
solidarity this week and the kind of | 0:13:57 | 0:13:57 | |
international action you are looking | 0:13:57 | 0:14:00 | |
solidarity this week and the kind of
for. I think that is total nonsense, | 0:14:00 | 0:14:02 | |
for. I think that is total nonsense,
Brexit doesn't have an impact on | 0:14:02 | 0:14:06 | |
this and we are still part of the EU | 0:14:06 | 0:14:10 | |
and we operate EU sanctions
collaboratively and we're passing | 0:14:10 | 0:14:12 | |
collaboratively and we're | 0:14:12 | 0:14:12 | |
legislation through the House of
Commons which will give us | 0:14:12 | 0:14:15 | |
autonomous actions regime following
the departure from the EU, and we | 0:14:15 | 0:14:18 | |
will include in that what I hope
will be a firm | 0:14:18 | 0:14:25 | |
will include in that what I hope
statement from the House of Commons | 0:14:25 | 0:14:26 | |
that the Magnitsky clause, as people
have been campaigning for, will be | 0:14:26 | 0:14:30 | |
included in the sanctions and
anti-money-laundering Bill. And the | 0:14:30 | 0:14:34 | |
passage of this bill predated the
Salisbury incident, has always been | 0:14:34 | 0:14:41 | |
something we wanted the whole of the | 0:14:41 | 0:14:44 | |
Salisbury incident, has always been
House of Commons today, | 0:14:44 | 0:14:45 | |
Salisbury incident, has always been
something in a committee during | 0:14:45 | 0:14:45 | |
passage of the bill. Labour tried to
introduce an amendment to that | 0:14:45 | 0:14:51 | |
passage of the bill. Labour tried to
with the Magnitsky clause and you | 0:14:51 | 0:14:51 | |
wear minister in the Bill committee
that rejected those amendments two | 0:14:51 | 0:14:54 | |
weeks ago. -- you wear minister. I
answer the question before you ask | 0:14:54 | 0:15:01 | |
the question, which is we wanted it
to be done on the whole floor of the | 0:15:01 | 0:15:04 | |
house and in the phrasing of the
amendment it wasn't consistent with | 0:15:04 | 0:15:09 | |
some of the other parts | 0:15:09 | 0:15:12 | |
amendment it wasn't consistent with
-- you were a minister. We have an | 0:15:12 | 0:15:14 | |
amendment it wasn't consistent with
understanding that we hope will be a | 0:15:14 | 0:15:15 | |
cross-party | 0:15:15 | 0:15:18 | |
understanding that we hope will be a
a clear message to the world that | 0:15:18 | 0:15:18 | |
understanding that we hope will be a
the House of Commons, along with | 0:15:18 | 0:15:19 | |
countries who have done it already,
will be aligned with the Magnitsky | 0:15:19 | 0:15:24 | |
proposal, which campaigners | 0:15:24 | 0:15:30 | |
The Magnitsky powers would allow you
to take actions against individuals | 0:15:30 | 0:15:36 | |
guilty of gross human rights | 0:15:36 | 0:15:39 | |
to take actions against individuals
violations. That doesn't allow you | 0:15:39 | 0:15:40 | |
to attack the money of Putin allies
to attack the money of Putin allies | 0:15:40 | 0:15:45 | |
unless you can find them guilty of | 0:15:45 | 0:15:47 | |
to attack the money of Putin allies
gross human rights violations so it | 0:15:47 | 0:15:49 | |
to attack the money of Putin allies
wouldn't really allow you | 0:15:49 | 0:15:52 | |
to attack the money of Putin allies
to this attack, would it? Again, I'm | 0:15:52 | 0:15:53 | |
afraid you're totally wrong and
don't understand the wording of | 0:15:53 | 0:15:57 | |
afraid you're totally wrong and
bill because it is not only | 0:15:57 | 0:15:59 | |
afraid you're totally wrong and
human rights violations in the bill. | 0:15:59 | 0:16:01 | |
afraid you're totally wrong and
There are many purposes included | 0:16:01 | 0:16:02 | |
afraid you're totally wrong and
the list of things you can do under | 0:16:02 | 0:16:04 | |
the list of things you can do under
the legislation and it does include | 0:16:04 | 0:16:06 | |
what you have just described. But
the powers the Government has | 0:16:06 | 0:16:10 | |
what you have just described. But
already on going after things like | 0:16:10 | 0:16:12 | |
this, like unexplained wealth
orders, have been used only once | 0:16:12 | 0:16:15 | |
this, like unexplained wealth
since they were introduced. There | 0:16:15 | 0:16:18 | |
haven't been much evidence the
Government was serious | 0:16:18 | 0:16:23 | |
haven't been much evidence the
corrupt money brought in through | 0:16:23 | 0:16:25 | |
London. That's | 0:16:25 | 0:16:27 | |
corrupt money brought in through
legislation has only recently come | 0:16:27 | 0:16:27 | |
in and of course it's not | 0:16:27 | 0:16:29 | |
legislation has only recently come
politicians who | 0:16:29 | 0:16:31 | |
legislation has only recently come
decisions. There's a distinction | 0:16:31 | 0:16:32 | |
between the liberal democracy in
which we live, where judges on | 0:16:32 | 0:16:38 | |
between the liberal democracy in
law take their course from | 0:16:38 | 0:16:38 | |
law take their course from
politicians. And what we think is | 0:16:38 | 0:16:42 | |
law take their course from
happening in Russia, which is not a | 0:16:42 | 0:16:44 | |
law take their course from
real democracy, we are looking at a | 0:16:44 | 0:16:47 | |
pretty odd election taking place
pretty odd election taking place | 0:16:47 | 0:16:50 | |
today where Vladimir Putin | 0:16:50 | 0:16:52 | |
pretty odd election taking place
undoubtedly be supposedly re-elected | 0:16:52 | 0:16:52 | |
for the fourth time. That is a deep
distinction between our values and | 0:16:52 | 0:16:59 | |
bears. One of the great values we
have seen in the world is the | 0:16:59 | 0:17:02 | |
creation of the chemical weapons
Convention. Jeremy Corbyn has always | 0:17:02 | 0:17:07 | |
been the great disarm and here we
have a violation of the ideological, | 0:17:07 | 0:17:12 | |
have a violation of the ideological,
the sort of principled convention | 0:17:12 | 0:17:14 | |
that has been built up over many
decades, violated in our | 0:17:14 | 0:17:18 | |
that has been built up over many
country, which is why I think many | 0:17:18 | 0:17:20 | |
country, which is why I think many
young people are disappointed with | 0:17:20 | 0:17:25 | |
his response. Ben Wallace, | 0:17:25 | 0:17:26 | |
young people are disappointed with
security minister, | 0:17:26 | 0:17:27 | |
young people are disappointed with
allowed nasty individuals to come to | 0:17:27 | 0:17:30 | |
the City of London and launder | 0:17:30 | 0:17:32 | |
allowed nasty individuals to come to
illicit money. That sounds like an | 0:17:32 | 0:17:34 | |
allowed nasty individuals to come to
admission that until now | 0:17:34 | 0:17:36 | |
allowed nasty individuals to come to
Government hasn't been doing | 0:17:36 | 0:17:37 | |
allowed nasty individuals to come to
to tackle corrupt money in London. I | 0:17:37 | 0:17:41 | |
allowed nasty individuals to come to
think we are amassing the powers to | 0:17:41 | 0:17:42 | |
tackle exactly the kind of issue he
has identified, and indeed Ben | 0:17:42 | 0:17:48 | |
Wallace is the security | 0:17:48 | 0:17:50 | |
has identified, and indeed Ben
has been supporting this, pressing | 0:17:50 | 0:17:52 | |
has been supporting this, pressing
for it and administering it from the | 0:17:52 | 0:17:55 | |
Home Office point of view. We | 0:17:55 | 0:17:58 | |
for it and administering it from the
to make a proper distinction though | 0:17:58 | 0:17:59 | |
to make a proper distinction though
without compromising | 0:17:59 | 0:18:01 | |
to make a proper distinction though
between those who are guilty and | 0:18:01 | 0:18:03 | |
to make a proper distinction though
those who are not. Not every | 0:18:03 | 0:18:05 | |
oligarch is guilty and not every
rich Russian is necessarily a crony | 0:18:05 | 0:18:11 | |
of Putin and someone who | 0:18:11 | 0:18:14 | |
rich Russian is necessarily a crony
subject to sanctions so we need to | 0:18:14 | 0:18:15 | |
approach this without compromising
our values. But there is something | 0:18:15 | 0:18:19 | |
our values. But there is something
much more important than this, what | 0:18:19 | 0:18:21 | |
really matters is the world needs to | 0:18:21 | 0:18:24 | |
much more important than this, what
realise that if we allow chemical | 0:18:24 | 0:18:25 | |
weapons to slip into use any more
that's happened now, we will live in | 0:18:25 | 0:18:29 | |
weapons to slip into use any more
a much more dangerous world and one | 0:18:29 | 0:18:32 | |
weapons to slip into use any more
which is tearing up the rule | 0:18:32 | 0:18:36 | |
weapons to slip into use any more
throwing away the chemical weapons | 0:18:36 | 0:18:36 | |
Convention which has been in place
for so many decades, indeed it | 0:18:36 | 0:18:41 | |
Convention which has been in place
one of the | 0:18:41 | 0:18:43 | |
Convention which has been in place
achievements of the post war world | 0:18:43 | 0:18:44 | |
achievements of the post war world
that we put this in place so we have | 0:18:44 | 0:18:47 | |
to the robust in pointing the finger
at Russia and | 0:18:47 | 0:18:55 | |
to the robust in pointing the finger
by the use of chemical weapons is | 0:18:55 | 0:18:57 | |
by the use of chemical weapons is
simply not acceptable. Thank you for | 0:18:57 | 0:19:00 | |
Well, earlier this week the police
announced that they were launching | 0:19:00 | 0:19:02 | |
a murder inquiry in to the death
of another Russian businessman | 0:19:02 | 0:19:04 | |
living in Britain. | 0:19:04 | 0:19:05 | |
A pathologist's report says
Nikolai Glushkov died | 0:19:05 | 0:19:07 | |
of "compression to the neck"
after being found dead | 0:19:07 | 0:19:10 | |
at his home on Monday. | 0:19:10 | 0:19:10 | |
The Metropolitan Police say
there is no evidence to suggest | 0:19:10 | 0:19:13 | |
a link to the attempted murder
of Sergei and Yulia Skripal. | 0:19:13 | 0:19:15 | |
But the Home Office has announced it
will investigate a number | 0:19:15 | 0:19:18 | |
of other unexplained deaths
following the Skripal case. | 0:19:18 | 0:19:20 | |
Yvette Cooper is the Chair of
The Home Affairs Select Committee. | 0:19:20 | 0:19:26 | |
You specifically asked the Home
Secretary to investigate 14 other | 0:19:29 | 0:19:33 | |
deaths that you are worried may have | 0:19:33 | 0:19:36 | |
Secretary to investigate 14 other
had Russian involvement, do you have | 0:19:36 | 0:19:38 | |
much evidence for that? My concern
is that any area where there are | 0:19:38 | 0:19:43 | |
much evidence for that? My concern
allegations that there may have been | 0:19:43 | 0:19:47 | |
either Russian involvement or
suspicious circumstances that may | 0:19:47 | 0:19:50 | |
either Russian involvement or
need to be investigated should be, | 0:19:50 | 0:19:52 | |
either Russian involvement or
because I think we have to | 0:19:52 | 0:19:54 | |
either Russian involvement or
full facts. There was a BuzzFeed | 0:19:54 | 0:19:55 | |
investigation that made allegations
about 14 cases, there are other | 0:19:55 | 0:20:01 | |
investigation that made allegations
concerns raised about others. | 0:20:01 | 0:20:03 | |
investigation that made allegations
not for me to judge the individual | 0:20:03 | 0:20:05 | |
circumstances, my concern is these
cases, where there have been | 0:20:05 | 0:20:11 | |
circumstances, my concern is these
preliminary conclusions of suicide | 0:20:11 | 0:20:12 | |
or natural causes or accident, that
actually there may be further | 0:20:12 | 0:20:17 | |
evidence of more suspicious
circumstances, they should now be | 0:20:17 | 0:20:21 | |
reviewed by the Home | 0:20:21 | 0:20:23 | |
circumstances, they should now be
police. The Home Office have said | 0:20:23 | 0:20:24 | |
they will do that but if you look at
the the case of someone who died in | 0:20:24 | 0:20:32 | |
2012, Surrey police says they will
not reinvestigate so will they be | 0:20:32 | 0:20:38 | |
2012, Surrey police says they will
able to cover new evidence? I assume | 0:20:38 | 0:20:39 | |
able to cover new evidence? I assume
the Home Office will assure there is | 0:20:39 | 0:20:43 | |
able to cover new evidence? I assume
a review of all of these cases. The | 0:20:43 | 0:20:44 | |
Home Office Secretary will want to | 0:20:44 | 0:20:46 | |
a review of all of these cases. The
satisfy herself that every corner | 0:20:46 | 0:20:48 | |
has been looked into and | 0:20:48 | 0:20:50 | |
satisfy herself that every corner
been done properly and we get to the | 0:20:50 | 0:20:53 | |
satisfy herself that every corner
bottom of this. I do accept the | 0:20:53 | 0:20:55 | |
priority for them at | 0:20:55 | 0:20:57 | |
bottom of this. I do accept the
be this current investigation and | 0:20:57 | 0:21:00 | |
bottom of this. I do accept the
the current circumstances in | 0:21:00 | 0:21:00 | |
Salisbury and where those
investigations lead, but they will | 0:21:00 | 0:21:05 | |
need I think to follow up by | 0:21:05 | 0:21:08 | |
investigations lead, but they will
at these other cases as well. So you | 0:21:08 | 0:21:10 | |
have any doubt that | 0:21:10 | 0:21:13 | |
at these other cases as well. So you
Salisbury was directed by the | 0:21:13 | 0:21:15 | |
Russian state? I share the
conclusions | 0:21:15 | 0:21:19 | |
Russian state? I share the
and British government that it is | 0:21:19 | 0:21:22 | |
implausible the Russian state wasn't | 0:21:22 | 0:21:25 | |
and British government that it is
Jeremy Corbyn is wrong when he says | 0:21:25 | 0:21:27 | |
it is either the Russian state or a
chemical weapon that got | 0:21:27 | 0:21:34 | |
it is either the Russian state or a
control and into other people's | 0:21:34 | 0:21:35 | |
it is either the Russian state or a
hands? We don't | 0:21:35 | 0:21:37 | |
it is either the Russian state or a
individuals caused the attack and | 0:21:37 | 0:21:38 | |
how the nerve agent was | 0:21:38 | 0:21:41 | |
individuals caused the attack and
the country, we also don't know | 0:21:41 | 0:21:42 | |
the country, we also don't know
which bit of the Russian state was | 0:21:42 | 0:21:46 | |
particularly involved, but I | 0:21:46 | 0:21:47 | |
which bit of the Russian state was
the clear evidence, the way in which | 0:21:47 | 0:21:49 | |
the Russian government has been
behaving since this happened really | 0:21:49 | 0:21:55 | |
is not the behaviour of a government | 0:21:55 | 0:21:57 | |
behaving since this happened really
that is saying we weren't involved | 0:21:57 | 0:21:59 | |
and we want to help get to the
bottom of this because we take it | 0:21:59 | 0:22:03 | |
seriously. This morning the Russian
Embassy has been tweeting | 0:22:03 | 0:22:12 | |
Embassy has been tweeting pictures
of Hercule Poirot. So are you | 0:22:14 | 0:22:21 | |
embarrassed by Jeremy Corbyn saying
there isn't enough evidence to link | 0:22:21 | 0:22:25 | |
this to the Kremlin? This morning
this to the Kremlin? This morning | 0:22:25 | 0:22:28 | |
John McDonnell said we should
condemn the Russian government for | 0:22:28 | 0:22:31 | |
the way it's behaved on this, and
the way it's behaved on this, and | 0:22:31 | 0:22:34 | |
that the Russian government is
responsible, and I agreed with him, | 0:22:34 | 0:22:37 | |
and he went further than Theresa | 0:22:37 | 0:22:40 | |
responsible, and I agreed with him,
by pointing the finger at Putin, | 0:22:40 | 0:22:44 | |
something similar to what Boris
something similar to what Boris | 0:22:44 | 0:22:46 | |
Johnson has said, so I think there's
a recognition that even though | 0:22:46 | 0:22:51 | |
Johnson has said, so I think there's
don't know which individual | 0:22:51 | 0:22:52 | |
Johnson has said, so I think there's
delivered the nerve agent there is | 0:22:52 | 0:22:54 | |
responsibility here in the Russian | 0:22:54 | 0:22:57 | |
delivered the nerve agent there is
state and I think some part of the | 0:22:57 | 0:22:59 | |
security service is what we expect
as well. It was clear in the House | 0:22:59 | 0:23:03 | |
of Commons this week there were
senior Labour MPs like yourself | 0:23:03 | 0:23:08 | |
uncomfortable with Jeremy Corbyn's
position. There's also been reports | 0:23:08 | 0:23:13 | |
uncomfortable with Jeremy Corbyn's
this has been seen as a watershed | 0:23:13 | 0:23:16 | |
moment by some moderate Labour MPs
wondering what they are doing in | 0:23:16 | 0:23:20 | |
Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party and
revived talk of a breakaway party, | 0:23:20 | 0:23:24 | |
is that something you have heard
about? I think this is a load of | 0:23:24 | 0:23:32 | |
rubbish. I have not heard this so I
rubbish. I have not heard this so I | 0:23:32 | 0:23:35 | |
think this is in danger of
spiralling ever outwards and we are | 0:23:35 | 0:23:42 | |
also in danger of making this an
issue about domestic politics at a | 0:23:42 | 0:23:44 | |
also in danger of making this an
time when there is very | 0:23:44 | 0:23:46 | |
also in danger of making this an
international issues here that we | 0:23:46 | 0:23:47 | |
international issues here that we
should be focusing on and coming | 0:23:47 | 0:23:49 | |
together to focus on as well. That's | 0:23:49 | 0:23:51 | |
should be focusing on and coming
why it becomes a domestic issue | 0:23:51 | 0:23:53 | |
why it becomes a domestic issue
because it's at times like this you | 0:23:53 | 0:23:54 | |
might expect the leader of | 0:23:54 | 0:24:00 | |
because it's at times like this you
opposition to back-up the Prime | 0:24:00 | 0:24:01 | |
Minister, you were clearly
uncomfortable with the way | 0:24:01 | 0:24:03 | |
Minister, you were clearly
not do that, so it has consequences | 0:24:03 | 0:24:05 | |
Minister, you were clearly
within the Labour Party. As I | 0:24:05 | 0:24:06 | |
within the Labour Party. As I
understand it, Jeremy has said that | 0:24:06 | 0:24:09 | |
the evidence points to wash, that
also he supports all of the measures | 0:24:09 | 0:24:14 | |
the evidence points to wash, that
and that's really | 0:24:14 | 0:24:19 | |
and that's really important that you
have unanimity about the actions | 0:24:20 | 0:24:20 | |
that need | 0:24:20 | 0:24:23 | |
have unanimity about the actions
for further action around the | 0:24:23 | 0:24:25 | |
economic sanctions. They understand | 0:24:25 | 0:24:27 | |
for further action around the
he wanted to wait for further | 0:24:27 | 0:24:28 | |
evidence before going further and
criticising the Russian government. | 0:24:28 | 0:24:33 | |
Obviously John McDonnell has | 0:24:33 | 0:24:37 | |
criticising the Russian government.
criticised the Russian government | 0:24:37 | 0:24:37 | |
today, but I'm not going to
criticise Jeremy for taking | 0:24:37 | 0:24:41 | |
today, but I'm not going to
slightly different view | 0:24:41 | 0:24:42 | |
today, but I'm not going to
think there's been too much | 0:24:42 | 0:24:44 | |
temperature in this and you have
heard people being called warmongers | 0:24:44 | 0:24:47 | |
for condemning the Russian state,
you've also heard people being | 0:24:47 | 0:24:52 | |
called appeasers for asking further
questions. | 0:24:52 | 0:25:00 | |
questions. None of that helps. We
are not talking about military | 0:25:02 | 0:25:05 | |
action, we are talking about | 0:25:05 | 0:25:08 | |
are not talking about military
I hope there can be unanimity about | 0:25:08 | 0:25:09 | |
what | 0:25:09 | 0:25:11 | |
Yvonne Cooper, thank you. I will
just pick up some of that with the | 0:25:11 | 0:25:14 | |
panel. Lucy Fisher, it was clear
listening to Yvette Cooper, and | 0:25:14 | 0:25:19 | |
Shami Chakrabarti, very much in the
Labour Party people who seemed to | 0:25:19 | 0:25:24 | |
Shami Chakrabarti, very much in the
at odds at the beginning of the week | 0:25:24 | 0:25:24 | |
at odds at the beginning of the week
as saying there is nothing to see | 0:25:24 | 0:25:26 | |
here, is that true? I'm not entirely | 0:25:26 | 0:25:32 | |
as saying there is nothing to see
convinced, I think this has opened | 0:25:32 | 0:25:34 | |
as saying there is nothing to see
up old wounds in the Labour Party, | 0:25:34 | 0:25:36 | |
the front bench has been strained by
this response, and while we were | 0:25:36 | 0:25:40 | |
the front bench has been strained by
talking about how some of | 0:25:40 | 0:25:43 | |
the front bench has been strained by
questions he has asked are valid, | 0:25:43 | 0:25:44 | |
tonally I think the response has | 0:25:44 | 0:25:46 | |
questions he has asked are valid,
upset a lot of Labour MPs, including | 0:25:46 | 0:25:50 | |
those who have called for the
Commons to unequivocally condemn the | 0:25:50 | 0:25:53 | |
Russian state. Matt Zarb Cousin,
Labour has been | 0:25:53 | 0:26:08 | |
Labour has been calling for -- the | 0:26:08 | 0:26:10 | |
Government have been calling for
Magnitsky clauses, exactly what | 0:26:10 | 0:26:15 | |
Government have been calling for
Jeremy Corbyn called forth. Were you | 0:26:15 | 0:26:15 | |
Jeremy Corbyn called forth. Were you
satisfied with what you heard from | 0:26:15 | 0:26:20 | |
from Alan Duncan? No, they are
watered down compared to what Jeremy | 0:26:20 | 0:26:23 | |
Corbyn had in the manifesto in | 0:26:23 | 0:26:28 | |
watered down compared to what Jeremy
last election. I think there is an | 0:26:28 | 0:26:28 | |
agreement among the Labour Party now | 0:26:28 | 0:26:31 | |
last election. I think there is an
and the front bench particularly | 0:26:31 | 0:26:33 | |
last election. I think there is an
that the Russian state is culpable | 0:26:33 | 0:26:34 | |
last election. I think there is an
and that is shared across the house. | 0:26:34 | 0:26:36 | |
You are still couple books under the
chemicals weapons Convention if | 0:26:36 | 0:26:42 | |
You are still couple books under the
lose control of the nerve agent, | 0:26:42 | 0:26:45 | |
which is what | 0:26:45 | 0:26:48 | |
lose control of the nerve agent,
Conservative government is serious | 0:26:48 | 0:26:50 | |
lose control of the nerve agent,
about financial powers in order to | 0:26:50 | 0:26:52 | |
lose control of the nerve agent,
target corrupt money? David Cameron | 0:26:52 | 0:26:53 | |
said one of his great regrets is
that he never introduced me | 0:26:53 | 0:26:57 | |
Magnitsky powers, the Government say
they will go ahead with it, is it | 0:26:57 | 0:27:02 | |
powers they will use in a meaningful
way? I think they are absolutely | 0:27:02 | 0:27:08 | |
way? I think they are absolutely
serious. The national security | 0:27:08 | 0:27:09 | |
adviser said he understands this, as
does the intelligence minister Ben | 0:27:09 | 0:27:14 | |
Wallace, they have already used
these new powers about freezing the | 0:27:14 | 0:27:19 | |
assets on unexplained wealth. A
fairly new measure which has already | 0:27:19 | 0:27:25 | |
been implemented in at least one
case as I understand it. I want to | 0:27:25 | 0:27:30 | |
come back on your comments, you | 0:27:30 | 0:27:31 | |
case as I understand it. I want to
the Labour Party is singing as one, | 0:27:31 | 0:27:34 | |
I don't pick that | 0:27:34 | 0:27:37 | |
the Labour Party is singing as one,
rhetoric. I felt Yvette Cooper was | 0:27:37 | 0:27:40 | |
extraordinarily diplomatic, but | 0:27:40 | 0:27:41 | |
rhetoric. I felt Yvette Cooper was
trying to paper over serious cracks | 0:27:41 | 0:27:44 | |
within the Parliamentary party about
Labour's position on this. It is | 0:27:44 | 0:27:49 | |
clear Jeremy Corbyn doubts the
intelligence on it. It is not the | 0:27:49 | 0:27:53 | |
intelligence he doubts, it is | 0:27:53 | 0:27:55 | |
intelligence on it. It is not the
way the intelligence has been | 0:27:55 | 0:27:57 | |
interpreted by | 0:27:57 | 0:28:00 | |
way the intelligence has been
I'm talking about intelligence he | 0:28:00 | 0:28:00 | |
perhaps hasn't seen so we don't know | 0:28:00 | 0:28:06 | |
how much he has seen. Theresa May,
as Lucy's story showed this week, | 0:28:06 | 0:28:08 | |
hasn't necessarily shown the Leader | 0:28:08 | 0:28:11 | |
as Lucy's story showed this week,
of the Opposition and chief of staff | 0:28:11 | 0:28:12 | |
everything. It is the same as Iraq
in a sense. It is not the | 0:28:12 | 0:28:17 | |
everything. It is the same as Iraq
intelligence itself necessarily, it | 0:28:17 | 0:28:20 | |
everything. It is the same as Iraq
is how the Government uses the | 0:28:20 | 0:28:20 | |
intelligence, and that's when it
comes back to the nerve agent being | 0:28:20 | 0:28:24 | |
intelligence, and that's when it
of a type developed by Russia. | 0:28:24 | 0:28:29 | |
OK, talking of cracks in the Labour
OK, talking of cracks in the Labour | 0:28:29 | 0:28:31 | |
Party we have another | 0:28:31 | 0:28:34 | |
On Tuesday the Labour Party
were expected to rubber | 0:28:34 | 0:28:36 | |
stamp their support for transgender
women to be included | 0:28:36 | 0:28:39 | |
on all-women short lists. | 0:28:39 | 0:28:40 | |
But this programme has learned that
that announcement has been delayed | 0:28:40 | 0:28:42 | |
so that arguments on all sides
can be heard. | 0:28:42 | 0:28:44 | |
The rights of the transgender
community have also become part | 0:28:44 | 0:28:47 | |
of a wider conversation
in Westminster after the government | 0:28:47 | 0:28:49 | |
backed calls to simplify the legal
process to for someone | 0:28:49 | 0:28:51 | |
to change their gender. | 0:28:51 | 0:28:52 | |
Greg Dawson reports. | 0:28:52 | 0:28:55 | |
This is Heather Peto. | 0:28:57 | 0:28:59 | |
I've always known I'm a woman,
it's when I became a teenager that | 0:28:59 | 0:29:03 | |
I really sort of like felt
the pressure to be who I was. | 0:29:03 | 0:29:06 | |
And, at the next general election,
she wants to make political history. | 0:29:06 | 0:29:11 | |
I'd like to be one of the first
she wants to make political history. | 0:29:11 | 0:29:15 | |
But that ambition has
propelled her and others | 0:29:15 | 0:29:17 | |
to the centre of a significant row
in the Labour Party | 0:29:17 | 0:29:20 | |
after she was included
on an all women's short list | 0:29:20 | 0:29:23 | |
as a Parliamentary candidate. | 0:29:23 | 0:29:29 | |
I don't think it's an | 0:29:29 | 0:29:30 | |
I don't think it's an issue to be
honest. I think the local party | 0:29:30 | 0:29:35 | |
decides and the best candidates will
get through so I don't think | 0:29:35 | 0:29:39 | |
decides and the best candidates will
an issue. I think it's being made | 0:29:39 | 0:29:43 | |
decides and the best candidates will
issue by some people that are more | 0:29:43 | 0:29:44 | |
anti-transgender, but local people | 0:29:44 | 0:29:45 | |
issue by some people that are more
don't seem | 0:29:45 | 0:29:50 | |
onto all women's short lists
but that policy has recently | 0:29:50 | 0:29:51 | |
come under attack.
feminists who descended | 0:29:51 | 0:29:55 | |
on Parliament this week
for a meeting they titled | 0:29:55 | 0:29:58 | |
"transgender and the war on women". | 0:29:58 | 0:30:04 | |
They've been described
as transphobic, a label they reject. | 0:30:05 | 0:30:08 | |
I can see already there
are trans-identifying | 0:30:08 | 0:30:10 | |
men cynically use -
what I feel - are cynically | 0:30:10 | 0:30:13 | |
using those positions. | 0:30:13 | 0:30:18 | |
You've got Heather Peto who is
the trans-inclusionary officer | 0:30:18 | 0:30:20 | |
of the Labour Party,
he went on to an all | 0:30:20 | 0:30:23 | |
women's short list. | 0:30:23 | 0:30:24 | |
The fact that you are referencing
Heather as 'he' against her wishes | 0:30:24 | 0:30:27 | |
preferred pronouns. | 0:30:29 | 0:30:34 | |
Once we start using she for a man,
we are blurring the distinction. | 0:30:34 | 0:30:37 | |
Venice Allan is a Labour member
but those views got her suspended. | 0:30:37 | 0:30:41 | |
She knows what she says is offensive
to the trans community | 0:30:41 | 0:30:44 | |
but makes no apology for it. | 0:30:44 | 0:30:49 | |
I really do want to have this
conversation, like I say, | 0:30:49 | 0:30:52 | |
you don't have to agree with us
but you do have to listen to us. | 0:30:52 | 0:30:56 | |
Like the Labour Party, you know,
they're not listening. | 0:30:56 | 0:30:58 | |
I've tried to set up Momentum
events, Labour events, I've tried | 0:30:58 | 0:31:01 | |
to meet with Jeremy Corbyn
and other politicians. | 0:31:01 | 0:31:04 | |
Labour were supposed to formally
clarify their support for trans | 0:31:04 | 0:31:10 | |
women on all-women short
lists at a meeting at the | 0:31:10 | 0:31:12 | |
party's HQ this week.
would have triggered | 0:31:12 | 0:31:16 | |
the resignations of more
than 200 female members. | 0:31:16 | 0:31:18 | |
Then yesterday, Labour told us
that formal discussion | 0:31:18 | 0:31:19 | |
was delayed until June. | 0:31:19 | 0:31:22 | |
This is all a precursor to a much
wider political debate | 0:31:23 | 0:31:27 | |
going on with the Government
committing to update | 0:31:27 | 0:31:29 | |
the Gender Recognition Act. | 0:31:29 | 0:31:31 | |
As the Prime Minister has explained,
the changes would allow people | 0:31:31 | 0:31:34 | |
to self define their gender
without the need for | 0:31:34 | 0:31:37 | |
medical diagnosis. | 0:31:37 | 0:31:39 | |
We have set out plans to reform
the Gender Recognition Act, | 0:31:39 | 0:31:42 | |
streamlining and demedicalising
the process for changing gender, | 0:31:42 | 0:31:45 | |
because being trans is not
an illness and it shouldn't be | 0:31:45 | 0:31:47 | |
treated as such. | 0:31:47 | 0:31:53 | |
Since she made that speech
at the Pink Awards last October, | 0:31:55 | 0:32:01 | |
progress on those changes
to the Gender Recognition Act seems | 0:32:01 | 0:32:04 | |
to have slowed down. | 0:32:04 | 0:32:09 | |
I've asked the Government what's
going on and they just say in this | 0:32:09 | 0:32:13 | |
very short statement that
a consultation will be published | 0:32:13 | 0:32:15 | |
in due course, but no date given. | 0:32:15 | 0:32:19 | |
And our various requests to speak
to politicians both in favour | 0:32:19 | 0:32:23 | |
and opposed to these changes
were all turned down, which came | 0:32:23 | 0:32:26 | |
as little surprise to some.
politicians who have | 0:32:26 | 0:32:30 | |
questions about this,
who have doubts about it, | 0:32:30 | 0:32:32 | |
who don't dare express those doubts,
raise those questions, | 0:32:32 | 0:32:38 | |
because they are worried that
if they do they will be screamed at, | 0:32:38 | 0:32:42 | |
they will be accused of bigotry
and transphobia simply | 0:32:42 | 0:32:44 | |
for asking questions. | 0:32:44 | 0:32:46 | |
James Kirkup has written a number
of columns on the updates to the act | 0:32:46 | 0:32:49 | |
and isn't sure it's been
properly thought through. | 0:32:49 | 0:32:51 | |
There are questions about access
to safe spaces for women | 0:32:51 | 0:32:56 | |
in domestic violence refuges,
there are questions | 0:32:56 | 0:32:58 | |
about the collection,
collation of statistics | 0:32:58 | 0:33:00 | |
on crime, on pay. | 0:33:00 | 0:33:04 | |
Questions that should be asked,
debated, discussed and answered. | 0:33:04 | 0:33:07 | |
Heather Peto says the changes
debated, discussed and answered. | 0:33:07 | 0:33:14 | |
and hopes she can one day speak up
for the rights of the | 0:33:14 | 0:33:16 | |
trans-community from the benches
of the House of Commons. | 0:33:16 | 0:33:19 | |
As a feminist, I would stand up
to that and say, no, | 0:33:19 | 0:33:21 | |
I will just be who I am. | 0:33:21 | 0:33:24 | |
I have the self-confidence that I'm
a woman and I always have been, | 0:33:24 | 0:33:26 | |
and people should just
accept me for that. | 0:33:26 | 0:33:32 | |
The two chip significant issues
pick about bout the Labour Party and | 0:33:32 | 0:33:36 | |
the Government's | 0:33:36 | 0:33:39 | |
pick about bout the Labour Party and
transgender rights, let me start | 0:33:39 | 0:33:39 | |
transgender rights, let me start
with you, Matt -- two significant | 0:33:39 | 0:33:44 | |
transgender rights, let me start
issues. The government is | 0:33:44 | 0:33:48 | |
transgender rights, let me start
terrible tangle on transgender women | 0:33:48 | 0:33:48 | |
on all women short lists and they've
had to put it off until June. Self | 0:33:48 | 0:33:54 | |
identifying trans-woman has never
been disbarred from being on a | 0:33:54 | 0:33:57 | |
women's short list in the | 0:33:57 | 0:34:02 | |
been disbarred from being on a
selection. The consultation was, as | 0:34:02 | 0:34:03 | |
I understand it, coming up with a | 0:34:03 | 0:34:06 | |
selection. The consultation was, as
form of words... Clarifying the | 0:34:06 | 0:34:09 | |
position that trans-women are
elaborate rules to be on all women | 0:34:09 | 0:34:11 | |
short lists, it | 0:34:11 | 0:34:13 | |
elaborate rules to be on all women
around the party with two prominent | 0:34:13 | 0:34:15 | |
elaborate rules to be on all women
members threatening to resign if | 0:34:15 | 0:34:16 | |
elaborate rules to be on all women
that warning is put in, that | 0:34:16 | 0:34:19 | |
elaborate rules to be on all women
party has been bucking the | 0:34:19 | 0:34:19 | |
elaborate rules to be on all women
and kicking it into | 0:34:19 | 0:34:22 | |
elaborate rules to be on all women
The conversations I have had with | 0:34:22 | 0:34:24 | |
the leader's of this suggest | 0:34:24 | 0:34:26 | |
The conversations I have had with
not the case, they are | 0:34:26 | 0:34:28 | |
The conversations I have had with
consulting on it and exactly what | 0:34:28 | 0:34:28 | |
consulting on it and exactly what
the form of words will be there is | 0:34:28 | 0:34:30 | |
no actual plan as far as I'm aware
to stop trans-women self identifying | 0:34:30 | 0:34:37 | |
no actual plan as far as I'm aware
and being on a women's short list. | 0:34:37 | 0:34:38 | |
Can I ask how many trans-women are | 0:34:38 | 0:34:40 | |
and being on a women's short list.
applying to be on all women short | 0:34:40 | 0:34:42 | |
lists? I'm not sure. I suspect it is
zero. Heather Peto is one of them in | 0:34:42 | 0:34:49 | |
zero. Heather Peto is one of them in
the film, there may be several. | 0:34:49 | 0:34:52 | |
There may be but I suspect it is
less than the number of women on | 0:34:52 | 0:34:58 | |
this. | 0:34:58 | 0:35:00 | |
Not from any disparaging how
difficult it must be to be in | 0:35:03 | 0:35:06 | |
Not from any disparaging how
situation. There would | 0:35:06 | 0:35:08 | |
Not from any disparaging how
way of resolving the switch would | 0:35:08 | 0:35:10 | |
Not from any disparaging how
not to have all women short lists | 0:35:10 | 0:35:12 | |
Not from any disparaging how
and select the best candidates for | 0:35:12 | 0:35:13 | |
the job. It is also about whether
Labour MPs have access to the | 0:35:13 | 0:35:20 | |
leadership programme, whether they
can stand as women's officers in | 0:35:20 | 0:35:24 | |
local parties. What Labour did | 0:35:24 | 0:35:26 | |
can stand as women's officers in
they jumped the gun by saying it is | 0:35:26 | 0:35:28 | |
fine, or self identifying
trans-women can have access to these | 0:35:28 | 0:35:33 | |
full rights. I think it is quite
welcome to have a | 0:35:33 | 0:35:37 | |
full rights. I think it is quite
Politics is the art of persuasion | 0:35:37 | 0:35:39 | |
and there was no real attempt | 0:35:39 | 0:35:41 | |
Politics is the art of persuasion
Labour leadership to bring the | 0:35:41 | 0:35:41 | |
party, bring some of the feminist...
There are radical feminists in the | 0:35:41 | 0:35:46 | |
party who will take more than a bit
of gentle persuasion to | 0:35:46 | 0:35:50 | |
party who will take more than a bit
accustomed to the idea | 0:35:50 | 0:35:51 | |
party who will take more than a bit
who were born men should be | 0:35:51 | 0:35:53 | |
party who will take more than a bit
all women short list. That's right | 0:35:53 | 0:35:54 | |
but as we saw in the VT they are
asking for an opportunity to be | 0:35:54 | 0:36:03 | |
heard and the debate to be had so it | 0:36:05 | 0:36:07 | |
asking for an opportunity to be
is quite welcome there will be a | 0:36:07 | 0:36:09 | |
consultation. It's not just | 0:36:09 | 0:36:11 | |
is quite welcome there will be a
kicked on this issue | 0:36:11 | 0:36:13 | |
is quite welcome there will be a
know what happened to the | 0:36:13 | 0:36:14 | |
Government's consultation | 0:36:14 | 0:36:18 | |
or woman. That's going to be a
difficult one for the government. | 0:36:18 | 0:36:18 | |
Remember the | 0:36:18 | 0:36:20 | |
difficult one for the government.
toy party that David Cameron fought | 0:36:20 | 0:36:20 | |
difficult one for the government.
over gay marriage. Absolutely and | 0:36:20 | 0:36:21 | |
this is even much | 0:36:21 | 0:36:23 | |
over gay marriage. Absolutely and
and a sensitive issue. | 0:36:23 | 0:36:25 | |
over gay marriage. Absolutely and
and I've been guilty of it myself to | 0:36:25 | 0:36:27 | |
and I've been guilty of it myself to
get the language are wrong on this, | 0:36:27 | 0:36:29 | |
to upset people, and I can | 0:36:29 | 0:36:34 | |
get the language are wrong on this,
imagine the Prime Minister's qualms | 0:36:34 | 0:36:35 | |
about opening this can of worms
about opening this can of worms | 0:36:35 | 0:36:39 | |
within her own party, where there
will be people who | 0:36:39 | 0:36:42 | |
within her own party, where there
off message about it. It seems they | 0:36:42 | 0:36:46 | |
are pushing agendas are long | 0:36:46 | 0:36:49 | |
off message about it. It seems they
and there are bigger issues to worry | 0:36:49 | 0:36:50 | |
off message about it. It seems they
about. You are talking about 2000 or | 0:36:50 | 0:36:52 | |
3000 people in a party of 650,000.
It is a rounding error. In the | 0:36:52 | 0:36:59 | |
3000 people in a party of 650,000.
Labour Party, you're talking about? | 0:36:59 | 0:37:00 | |
3000 people in a party of 650,000.
It is not splitting the party, it is | 0:37:00 | 0:37:02 | |
3000 people in a party of 650,000.
a small minority of women who don't | 0:37:02 | 0:37:05 | |
3000 people in a party of 650,000.
believe in trans-rights, that's it. | 0:37:05 | 0:37:06 | |
Interesting to hear Theresa | 0:37:06 | 0:37:08 | |
believe in trans-rights, that's it.
talking about the Government's | 0:37:08 | 0:37:09 | |
consultation. That was a clear
statement she made | 0:37:09 | 0:37:12 | |
consultation. That was a clear
conference saying she wanted | 0:37:12 | 0:37:14 | |
consultation. That was a clear
streamline this and trans-wasn't a | 0:37:14 | 0:37:16 | |
mental health issue, she made a | 0:37:16 | 0:37:19 | |
streamline this and trans-wasn't a
strong commitment | 0:37:19 | 0:37:21 | |
streamline this and trans-wasn't a
and she didn't have to do that. She | 0:37:21 | 0:37:22 | |
and she didn't have to do that. She
didn't at all and | 0:37:22 | 0:37:26 | |
and she didn't have to do that. She
she went as far as that. It is not | 0:37:26 | 0:37:28 | |
unprecedented. Ireland, Argentina, | 0:37:28 | 0:37:30 | |
she went as far as that. It is not
Colombia and Malta have changed | 0:37:30 | 0:37:31 | |
their processes to deep apologise it | 0:37:31 | 0:37:33 | |
Colombia and Malta have changed
so it is merely a legal process and | 0:37:33 | 0:37:35 | |
that is what the | 0:37:35 | 0:37:38 | |
so it is merely a legal process and
getting at. My understanding is for | 0:37:38 | 0:37:40 | |
a person to legally change their | 0:37:40 | 0:37:42 | |
getting at. My understanding is for
gender they have to live as their | 0:37:42 | 0:37:44 | |
desired gender for two years and
they have to have psychiatric | 0:37:44 | 0:37:47 | |
they have to have | 0:37:47 | 0:37:48 | |
evaluations and medical opinions
they have to have | 0:37:48 | 0:37:48 | |
evaluations and medical opinions
from two doctors and tests that some | 0:37:48 | 0:37:50 | |
have claimed are incredibly
traumatising. It can be made legal | 0:37:50 | 0:37:59 | |
process from precedents aboard. We | 0:37:59 | 0:38:00 | |
traumatising. It can be made legal
will carry | 0:38:00 | 0:38:03 | |
traumatising. It can be made legal
throughout the programme. | 0:38:03 | 0:38:03 | |
It's coming up to 11:40am,
you're watching the Sunday Politics. | 0:38:03 | 0:38:05 | |
Still to come - | 0:38:05 | 0:38:06 | |
There is a big row brewing
in the Brexit Select Committee | 0:38:06 | 0:38:09 | |
and I'll be talking to its Chairman
- Hilary Benn. | 0:38:09 | 0:38:11 | |
First though, it's time for
the Sunday Politics where you are. | 0:38:11 | 0:38:13 | |
I see this role is | 0:38:13 | 0:38:19 | |
-- welcome to Sunday Politics.
Coming up. The first Welsh taxes for | 0:38:24 | 0:38:31 | |
800 years will kick in next month.
Are we ready? And could last | 0:38:31 | 0:38:37 | |
vehicles be an alternative to the
Swansea Bay metal? First, Alex | 0:38:37 | 0:38:42 | |
Kearns has been well secretary for
two years, with Brexit and other | 0:38:42 | 0:38:48 | |
opportunities crossing his desk. I
asked him how he thought things had | 0:38:48 | 0:38:50 | |
been going when I met him.
Well, it has been a fantastic | 0:38:50 | 0:38:55 | |
privilege in the first instance. I
wanted to play my part in bringing a | 0:38:55 | 0:38:59 | |
much warmer relationship, more
constructive relationship, between | 0:38:59 | 0:39:02 | |
the Welsh and UK Government. Funding
was a key issue. People in Wales | 0:39:02 | 0:39:07 | |
have rightly been complaining for
some time there needed to be in new | 0:39:07 | 0:39:11 | |
funding settlement, and I think that
is one of the most significant | 0:39:11 | 0:39:14 | |
outcomes. Overall, it is about
getting people to understand that | 0:39:14 | 0:39:19 | |
there are two governmentus in Wales,
one that act in the devolved area, | 0:39:19 | 0:39:23 | |
the Welsh Government, and then in
reserve spaces there is the UK | 0:39:23 | 0:39:26 | |
government, which is also relevant
to people working in Wales. This | 0:39:26 | 0:39:30 | |
time last year, the big
accomplishments were Wales Act, | 0:39:30 | 0:39:40 | |
physical framework, mobile coverage
and business support. In the year | 0:39:40 | 0:39:42 | |
since then, what would you say are
the big things you have achieved? It | 0:39:42 | 0:39:48 | |
is a central part around Brexit. The
referendum, are outcome of that, was | 0:39:48 | 0:39:54 | |
a surprise to many. We have an
obligation to act on that | 0:39:54 | 0:39:57 | |
instruction, because Wales voted to
leave. It has made the role of the | 0:39:57 | 0:40:00 | |
Secretary of State for Wales much
more exciting and central to the | 0:40:00 | 0:40:03 | |
thinking of government process.
There are several Brexit committees. | 0:40:03 | 0:40:09 | |
I specialise in the one in trade and
the one in domestic preparations, as | 0:40:09 | 0:40:15 | |
well as economic affairs. That has
enabled me to ensure that the UK | 0:40:15 | 0:40:20 | |
government represents every part of
the United Kingdom. Wales is my | 0:40:20 | 0:40:24 | |
interest, as it moves forward in
preparations to leave the EU. It is | 0:40:24 | 0:40:29 | |
interesting that you say the
relationships between the two | 0:40:29 | 0:40:32 | |
governments have been a step
forward, Brexit, because you could | 0:40:32 | 0:40:35 | |
argue... With the repeal Bill and
so-called power grab from the UK | 0:40:35 | 0:40:40 | |
Government, as the Welsh Government
would call it, that actually | 0:40:40 | 0:40:42 | |
relations have been under a lot of
pressure between the two. Let's go | 0:40:42 | 0:40:46 | |
back to the Wills bill, Wales act.
There were many journalists, maybe | 0:40:46 | 0:40:52 | |
you included, who suggested that I
would never get agreement between | 0:40:52 | 0:40:55 | |
the UK Government and Welsh
Government. It was only by hard work | 0:40:55 | 0:40:59 | |
and determination that we succeeded.
In relation to the European Union | 0:40:59 | 0:41:04 | |
withdrawal bill, and it does --
equally optimistic. The | 0:41:04 | 0:41:12 | |
electrification of the line from
London to Cardiff has happened over | 0:41:12 | 0:41:17 | |
the last year, but it has been
cancelled to Swansea. Over the last | 0:41:17 | 0:41:20 | |
year or two, does that have to count
as a failure? No, I think that is | 0:41:20 | 0:41:26 | |
the right decision. It is taxpayers'
money. It is the same train, which | 0:41:26 | 0:41:30 | |
will take this amount of time... But
when it was going to Swansea, you | 0:41:30 | 0:41:33 | |
were in favour of that, saying it
needed to happen. Now it is not, you | 0:41:33 | 0:41:37 | |
say it is still the right decision.
It has to be either order. No, it is | 0:41:37 | 0:41:42 | |
the same train that the excessive
amount of time, and spending | 0:41:42 | 0:41:47 | |
potentially £700 million on
electrifying a railway when the | 0:41:47 | 0:41:49 | |
train was by model and would not
have got any quicker, it did not | 0:41:49 | 0:41:52 | |
make in a sense. Another issue that
your detractors would be very | 0:41:52 | 0:41:59 | |
unhappy with is your continued
reluctance, refusal, to devolve air | 0:41:59 | 0:42:03 | |
passenger duty to the Welsh
Government, citing, as the UK | 0:42:03 | 0:42:08 | |
Government has, that it would be too
damaging to Bristol airport. You are | 0:42:08 | 0:42:12 | |
not fully there are standing up for
Wales strongly enough, is that fair? | 0:42:12 | 0:42:17 | |
I do not accept that. First of all,
the commission did not come up with | 0:42:17 | 0:42:21 | |
an agreement on this issue. The
First Minister was calling for air | 0:42:21 | 0:42:27 | |
passenger duty to be devolved, but
that is pretty anti-competitive... | 0:42:27 | 0:42:30 | |
So does the labour of the
conservative and Wales is not the | 0:42:30 | 0:42:34 | |
leader of the Conservatives. Only UK
bases, the most important market... | 0:42:34 | 0:42:39 | |
You should be looking at Wills, not
the UK. The most important market to | 0:42:39 | 0:42:44 | |
Wales as the UK market, because 80%
of output from Wills goes to the | 0:42:44 | 0:42:50 | |
rest of the UK, and, therefore, the
vibrancy of the Welsh economy is | 0:42:50 | 0:42:55 | |
dependent on the strength of the UK
economy, and the UK economy is | 0:42:55 | 0:42:59 | |
dependent on the strength of the
Welsh economy. | 0:42:59 | 0:43:02 | |
One of the success you have always
cited as the server until being | 0:43:02 | 0:43:05 | |
abolished. We see in the media that
the Newport area is being seen as an | 0:43:05 | 0:43:12 | |
area where people are trying houses,
the Bristol posts saying there is | 0:43:12 | 0:43:18 | |
going to be a mass exodus to Wales,
were historically ones are cheaper. | 0:43:18 | 0:43:23 | |
-- the Severn Toll. As the
consequence of abolishing the tolls | 0:43:23 | 0:43:30 | |
would be an influx of a lot of south
eastern English people did wheels, | 0:43:30 | 0:43:33 | |
would that be regrettable? So, are
are you asking if I should keep that | 0:43:33 | 0:43:41 | |
all 30 TV barrier? Every action has
a consequence, what consequence | 0:43:41 | 0:43:45 | |
could be from migration to South
East Wills. You have a toll across | 0:43:45 | 0:43:58 | |
the whole of the border to stop
that? This is removing that. We | 0:43:58 | 0:44:03 | |
don't worry about that cross-border
issue in north-east Wales. Airbus is | 0:44:03 | 0:44:06 | |
there. 40% of the employees of
Airbus come from the English side of | 0:44:06 | 0:44:10 | |
the border. That is good for the
economy. It shows a greater dynamic | 0:44:10 | 0:44:15 | |
of movement between those places.
Therefore, on that basis, by | 0:44:15 | 0:44:21 | |
removing the tollus on the Severn
Bridge, it has created excitement in | 0:44:21 | 0:44:25 | |
the business community, because the
biggest prospect... But there are | 0:44:25 | 0:44:29 | |
cultural aspects. The economic
reasons behind it are well-known. | 0:44:29 | 0:44:33 | |
Less discussed the possible
population changes which could | 0:44:33 | 0:44:40 | |
result from them, and I am not
really getting a sense from you as | 0:44:40 | 0:44:42 | |
to whether or not you think that
would be good or bad. There are | 0:44:42 | 0:44:44 | |
going to be challenges along the
way, without question. If there are | 0:44:44 | 0:44:48 | |
more people working in an area,
there is greater demand for housing. | 0:44:48 | 0:44:51 | |
On that basis, there is going to be
a social policy, because that has to | 0:44:51 | 0:44:55 | |
be resolved in terms of extra
housing. There is going to be | 0:44:55 | 0:45:01 | |
greater need for development for
business property. The biggest | 0:45:01 | 0:45:02 | |
property deal last year in Wales
took place after the Severn Tollus, | 0:45:02 | 0:45:08 | |
and the agent said it was because
they were being abolished. This goes | 0:45:08 | 0:45:11 | |
to show that there is an excitement
amongst the business community. This | 0:45:11 | 0:45:14 | |
is about, look, politics is about
improving people's lives. It is | 0:45:14 | 0:45:19 | |
about creating more wealth, sharing
wealth on a better basis. We can | 0:45:19 | 0:45:26 | |
always be poor by keeping a barrier
between us and other economies, or | 0:45:26 | 0:45:32 | |
more dynamic economies. That is
quite easily done. And then you can | 0:45:32 | 0:45:34 | |
defend it by saying we need those
tollus in order to maintain that | 0:45:34 | 0:45:41 | |
barrier. That is not the right thing
to do. I want the greatest movement, | 0:45:41 | 0:45:44 | |
the greatest dynamism in the
economy. I want to go -- the | 0:45:44 | 0:45:54 | |
critical mass that we create between
Bristol and Cardiff to start | 0:45:54 | 0:45:58 | |
campaigning with London and the
south east. | 0:45:58 | 0:46:02 | |
Welsh liver's election for a dip
into leader is still going on. A few | 0:46:02 | 0:46:06 | |
weeks ago, you will remember Julie
Morgan, one of the candidates, what | 0:46:06 | 0:46:09 | |
you're making her pitch. But what of
her opponent, Carolyn Harris? A | 0:46:09 | 0:46:14 | |
short while ago, I began by asking
her why she wanted the job. | 0:46:14 | 0:46:18 | |
I see this role as being
about campaigning, motivating | 0:46:18 | 0:46:20 | |
and enthusing people. | 0:46:20 | 0:46:21 | |
I've been an MP since 2015
and every campaign I have | 0:46:21 | 0:46:23 | |
taken on, I think I have
delivered the goods on. | 0:46:23 | 0:46:27 | |
I've led the way on 1950s women, | 0:46:27 | 0:46:27 | |
I've managed to get children's
funerals free in Wales | 0:46:27 | 0:46:30 | |
and I'm very,
very close to getting them | 0:46:30 | 0:46:32 | |
in the rest of the UK. | 0:46:32 | 0:46:33 | |
Fixed-odd betting
terminals - dreadful, | 0:46:33 | 0:46:34 | |
dreadful machines -
were somewhere on the horizon, | 0:46:34 | 0:46:37 | |
but they are now at
the top of the political agenda | 0:46:37 | 0:46:39 | |
and I'm hopeful that we're going
to get something on that very soon. | 0:46:39 | 0:46:42 | |
So, I think I've proved
myself to be the kind of person | 0:46:42 | 0:46:45 | |
who can work with people,
talk to people, listen to people. | 0:46:45 | 0:46:48 | |
I home in on the issues and I love
getting my sleeves rolled up | 0:46:48 | 0:46:51 | |
and getting the job done. | 0:46:51 | 0:46:55 | |
What kind of campaigns do
you think are needed | 0:46:55 | 0:46:58 | |
as deputy leader of
Welsh Labour, then? | 0:46:58 | 0:46:59 | |
Well, we don't really
know yet, do we? | 0:46:59 | 0:47:01 | |
We don't know until
we get out there and | 0:47:01 | 0:47:03 | |
actually speak to people. | 0:47:03 | 0:47:04 | |
I think we need to do
more work within the party | 0:47:04 | 0:47:07 | |
about supporting people
who want to become members, | 0:47:07 | 0:47:09 | |
who want to become part
of the Labour family, | 0:47:09 | 0:47:11 | |
especially for women and minority
groups who have access problems, | 0:47:11 | 0:47:15 | |
or even childcare problems,
and if you put yourself up | 0:47:15 | 0:47:19 | |
as a candidate, it's extremely
emotionally draining | 0:47:19 | 0:47:21 | |
and financially draining,
so I would like to see us doing | 0:47:21 | 0:47:24 | |
more on that in terms
of working with people | 0:47:24 | 0:47:27 | |
and training people
and giving them an idea of | 0:47:27 | 0:47:31 | |
what they're getting themselves
into, but it is not just | 0:47:31 | 0:47:33 | |
about the membership, is it? | 0:47:33 | 0:47:34 | |
It is about talking to people
in our communities. | 0:47:34 | 0:47:37 | |
This 3 million people in Wales. | 0:47:37 | 0:47:39 | |
They need us, they need us to listen
to them, and I see this role | 0:47:39 | 0:47:42 | |
as about working with not just
membership but working with | 0:47:42 | 0:47:46 | |
everybody in Wales to find
out what we can do to | 0:47:46 | 0:47:47 | |
make their life easier. | 0:47:47 | 0:47:49 | |
As a member of Parliament,
I just wonder, if you are | 0:47:49 | 0:47:51 | |
the deputy leader of Welsh
Labour, who then, ultimately, | 0:47:51 | 0:47:55 | |
do you think is your boss? | 0:47:55 | 0:47:56 | |
Is it Carwyn Jones or
is it Jeremy Corbyn? | 0:47:56 | 0:48:00 | |
Who do you have to
listen to if there is | 0:48:00 | 0:48:01 | |
a disagreement between
the two leaders? | 0:48:01 | 0:48:03 | |
Well, if there was a disagreement
to the detriment of Wales, | 0:48:03 | 0:48:05 | |
then obviously Welsh Labour wins
hands down, because I am | 0:48:05 | 0:48:08 | |
a Welsh politician, a Welsh MP,
I have to put my constituency | 0:48:08 | 0:48:10 | |
and Wales first. | 0:48:10 | 0:48:11 | |
But I can't ever imagine
there would be a time when the two | 0:48:11 | 0:48:15 | |
did not agree on something, because,
in all fairness to Jeremy, he does | 0:48:15 | 0:48:18 | |
leave devolution to sort itself out | 0:48:18 | 0:48:20 | |
and does not interfere in Welsh
politics. | 0:48:20 | 0:48:25 | |
If it did arise, I will take your
point that it may well not, | 0:48:25 | 0:48:30 | |
but you would defy the party whip
in Parliament | 0:48:30 | 0:48:33 | |
and vote against it on that basis? | 0:48:33 | 0:48:35 | |
Well, I have defied
the party whip before. | 0:48:35 | 0:48:40 | |
I defied the party whip
on welfare reform. | 0:48:40 | 0:48:42 | |
I was actually in the lobby
with Jeremy Corbyn. | 0:48:42 | 0:48:44 | |
There was only 47 of us,
but I was there then. | 0:48:44 | 0:48:46 | |
It's not something I would be afraid
to do, | 0:48:46 | 0:48:49 | |
because I have done it
before. | 0:48:49 | 0:48:50 | |
One of the big issues I am sure
you will be aware of | 0:48:50 | 0:48:53 | |
is one member,
one vote and whether or not | 0:48:53 | 0:48:55 | |
it should be used or should not be | 0:48:55 | 0:48:57 | |
to elect the next
Labour leader in Wales. | 0:48:57 | 0:48:59 | |
What are your views on that? | 0:48:59 | 0:49:01 | |
In terms of the college, I am very
much in favour of the unions | 0:49:01 | 0:49:04 | |
having a say. | 0:49:04 | 0:49:05 | |
People need to remember
that the unions did not | 0:49:05 | 0:49:07 | |
join the Labour Party,
they created the Labour Party. | 0:49:07 | 0:49:09 | |
Yes, I support that
part of the college. | 0:49:09 | 0:49:11 | |
What I would say is
that some people, who | 0:49:11 | 0:49:14 | |
we say are on the left, people
like Diane Abbott, Clive Lewis, have | 0:49:14 | 0:49:17 | |
actually come out in support of me
because they work with me, | 0:49:17 | 0:49:19 | |
they know me, they understand me,
they know my motives, | 0:49:19 | 0:49:22 | |
they know my motivation. | 0:49:22 | 0:49:30 | |
And for those to get personally
criticised for supporting | 0:49:30 | 0:49:33 | |
me because I am not
supporting OMOV... | 0:49:33 | 0:49:37 | |
Sure, but would you be happy
if you got the support of | 0:49:37 | 0:49:40 | |
the unions but not
of the membership? | 0:49:40 | 0:49:42 | |
Would that still be, in your view,
a strong enough victory? | 0:49:42 | 0:49:45 | |
I like to think that the membership
will see past the process | 0:49:45 | 0:49:48 | |
and will actually,
like my colleagues who | 0:49:48 | 0:49:49 | |
supported me, agree that... | 0:49:49 | 0:49:50 | |
The process is decided. | 0:49:50 | 0:49:52 | |
We've got to move on now. | 0:49:52 | 0:49:57 | |
We can't talk, 25,000 of us
talking to each other, | 0:49:57 | 0:49:59 | |
we need to talk to the 3 million
people out there who need us. | 0:49:59 | 0:50:02 | |
Yes, I've had a union
support, so has Julie, but, | 0:50:02 | 0:50:04 | |
yes, I have got membership support
because not everybody is obsessed | 0:50:04 | 0:50:07 | |
with OMOV, if I'm honest. | 0:50:07 | 0:50:08 | |
Most people can see
past that and see | 0:50:08 | 0:50:10 | |
that they need the best person
for the job | 0:50:10 | 0:50:13 | |
and that we need to look
beyond the process. | 0:50:13 | 0:50:16 | |
As a female politician,
how safe a place do you think | 0:50:16 | 0:50:20 | |
politics is for women in Wales
specifically, and what will your | 0:50:20 | 0:50:22 | |
role be in trying to prove that? | 0:50:22 | 0:50:27 | |
I personally, myself,
have come under | 0:50:27 | 0:50:29 | |
some really nasty personal attacks, | 0:50:29 | 0:50:31 | |
so I understand it is
very uncomfortable. | 0:50:31 | 0:50:34 | |
It is uncomfortable for men,
it's not just women | 0:50:34 | 0:50:36 | |
who are vulnerable to this. | 0:50:36 | 0:50:37 | |
But I think that we need
to be supporting women | 0:50:37 | 0:50:42 | |
to understand how they
can best tackle it. | 0:50:42 | 0:50:44 | |
Some people say grow a second skin,
it's not always possible to | 0:50:44 | 0:50:47 | |
grow a second skin when
people are being really | 0:50:47 | 0:50:50 | |
personal about you,
so | 0:50:50 | 0:50:51 | |
I think we do need to be better
at nurturing and supporting | 0:50:51 | 0:50:57 | |
on all aspects of
involvement with the party. | 0:50:57 | 0:51:00 | |
I am really happy... | 0:51:00 | 0:51:00 | |
I am a good listener. | 0:51:00 | 0:51:02 | |
I am a good talker but I am
a good listener, and I've | 0:51:02 | 0:51:05 | |
got a big heart and a big
mouth, so I can actually be | 0:51:05 | 0:51:08 | |
what I need to be
for everyone. | 0:51:08 | 0:51:09 | |
Thank you very much. | 0:51:09 | 0:51:11 | |
Thank you. | 0:51:11 | 0:51:18 | |
In just a couple of weeks, Wales
will be collecting its first taxes | 0:51:18 | 0:51:22 | |
in its own right as a country ever,
or at least since the days of the | 0:51:22 | 0:51:28 | |
13th century, so are we ready, and
how big is steak is this? We have | 0:51:28 | 0:51:32 | |
been looking through the history
books. | 0:51:32 | 0:51:34 | |
A new page of Welsh history
is set to be written. | 0:51:34 | 0:51:37 | |
On the 1st of April 2018,
Wales will once again take | 0:51:37 | 0:51:40 | |
charge of some of its taxes. | 0:51:40 | 0:51:45 | |
The last time any kind
of taxes were collected | 0:51:45 | 0:51:48 | |
by Welsh authorities | 0:51:48 | 0:51:49 | |
was nearly 800 years ago. | 0:51:49 | 0:51:51 | |
Since Tyler's church,
now rebuilt here, | 0:51:51 | 0:51:53 | |
dates from that time. | 0:51:53 | 0:51:56 | |
As you'd expect, back then,
Wales was a very different place. | 0:51:56 | 0:52:01 | |
When we think about Wales
in the Middle Ages, we think | 0:52:01 | 0:52:03 | |
about it a four different
independent countries. | 0:52:03 | 0:52:07 | |
Gwynedd, Powys and then
what is now Ceredigion. | 0:52:07 | 0:52:09 | |
Those three, together with one that
disappeared just after the | 0:52:09 | 0:52:11 | |
Normans turned up, pulled
and tugged against each other | 0:52:11 | 0:52:15 | |
for the whole of the Middle Ages. | 0:52:15 | 0:52:17 | |
There never really was a single,
you know, country, | 0:52:17 | 0:52:20 | |
as we would think. | 0:52:20 | 0:52:21 | |
They were all taxed differently. | 0:52:21 | 0:52:24 | |
In terms of all of what we know
was Wales being taxed in | 0:52:24 | 0:52:28 | |
a uniform fashion, this
is the first time in history. | 0:52:28 | 0:52:31 | |
So, what taxes are on
the cards for April? | 0:52:31 | 0:52:33 | |
The land transaction tax,
which replaces the old stamp duty on | 0:52:33 | 0:52:36 | |
property, and the landfill disposal
tax, which replaces Westminster's | 0:52:36 | 0:52:38 | |
landfill tax. | 0:52:38 | 0:52:43 | |
These will be collected
by the Welsh Revenue Authority, | 0:52:43 | 0:52:45 | |
from their new base. | 0:52:45 | 0:52:48 | |
We are a small but highly
specialised organisation. | 0:52:48 | 0:52:50 | |
So, we are going to be about
70 people, and yet we are | 0:52:50 | 0:52:55 | |
going to have to be able to offer
the same sort of suite of services | 0:52:55 | 0:52:58 | |
that you would expect from HMRC. | 0:52:58 | 0:53:00 | |
The biggest change, anyway,
is that these new taxes we pay | 0:53:00 | 0:53:08 | |
to the WRA, it's what happens
afterwards, | 0:53:08 | 0:53:09 | |
in a way, it's the biggest change. | 0:53:09 | 0:53:11 | |
That money is then specifically for
Welsh Government to spend on public | 0:53:11 | 0:53:14 | |
services in Wales, and so there
is no connection to London. | 0:53:14 | 0:53:16 | |
But Plaid Cymru's economic
adviser is doubtful | 0:53:16 | 0:53:18 | |
much will change. | 0:53:18 | 0:53:19 | |
Do you think there will be
more spending | 0:53:19 | 0:53:21 | |
on public services? | 0:53:21 | 0:53:22 | |
I doubt it, because the ideal way
is getting more spending, | 0:53:22 | 0:53:27 | |
getting more tax revenue is not
to put up the rate of tax, | 0:53:27 | 0:53:30 | |
it is not to increase tax
but build the economy. | 0:53:30 | 0:53:32 | |
If you grow the economy,
you grow the tax base | 0:53:32 | 0:53:35 | |
without putting up the rates of tax. | 0:53:35 | 0:53:37 | |
And how will these new powers change
the Assembly's role in | 0:53:37 | 0:53:39 | |
deciding which taxes are collected? | 0:53:39 | 0:53:41 | |
Assembly Members will be
able to block them, | 0:53:41 | 0:53:43 | |
if they so choose to,
| 0:53:43 | 0:53:44 | |
or endorse them, so it
will give them power | 0:53:44 | 0:53:47 | |
now of the equivalent
of the money bill, | 0:53:47 | 0:53:49 | |
but they already have
the power to block the Welsh budget. | 0:53:49 | 0:53:54 | |
They may wish to put riders with
that and also the taxes, | 0:53:54 | 0:53:57 | |
or they might have, you know,
new private members bills | 0:53:57 | 0:53:59 | |
or other bills
to come in | 0:53:59 | 0:54:02 | |
in order to have new taxes
on various products. | 0:54:02 | 0:54:05 | |
You know, for example
plastic bottles | 0:54:05 | 0:54:06 | |
or something like that. | 0:54:06 | 0:54:07 | |
And there are more tax
powers heading this way, | 0:54:07 | 0:54:11 | |
with control over income tax rates | 0:54:11 | 0:54:15 | |
set to be devolved in April next
year. | 0:54:15 | 0:54:17 | |
Scotland has had some income
tax powers since 1999. | 0:54:17 | 0:54:19 | |
The powers here are
quite limited, far more | 0:54:19 | 0:54:22 | |
limited than the Scottish
powers on income tax. | 0:54:22 | 0:54:24 | |
It's going to raise
about £2 billion. | 0:54:24 | 0:54:27 | |
That is 2 billion out
of the 15 billion, roughly, the | 0:54:27 | 0:54:29 | |
Welsh Government spends every year. | 0:54:29 | 0:54:32 | |
It is material, but not that large. | 0:54:32 | 0:54:33 | |
There will be hopes
in the Westminster Government | 0:54:33 | 0:54:37 | |
that the Welsh Government
and Assembly are responsible enough | 0:54:37 | 0:54:41 | |
to enable more powers to be devolved
over tax-raising powers, | 0:54:41 | 0:54:44 | |
and they will probably be
hope within the Assembly | 0:54:44 | 0:54:47 | |
that they can develop more
income streams, | 0:54:47 | 0:54:51 | |
new types of taxation,
to increase their own spending. | 0:54:51 | 0:54:57 | |
So, the 1st of April,
a day for the history books. | 0:54:57 | 0:55:00 | |
But, of course, we all
know that, in the end, | 0:55:00 | 0:55:02 | |
no matter who collects the taxes,
we still have to pay them. | 0:55:02 | 0:55:10 | |
Now, we know there is going to be a
Metro transport system in South East | 0:55:14 | 0:55:18 | |
Wills, and also north Wales, and
there are also plans for a network | 0:55:18 | 0:55:21 | |
in the Swansea Bay region, but how
should it work? There is a call for | 0:55:21 | 0:55:27 | |
it to be based not on trains and
trams but a system of driverless | 0:55:27 | 0:55:30 | |
vehicles. The region could lead the
way and developing alternative | 0:55:30 | 0:55:34 | |
transport like this, and the man who
said that joins me now. I will not | 0:55:34 | 0:55:39 | |
ask a UK men, whether or not any
driverless vehicle, but that is your | 0:55:39 | 0:55:43 | |
proposal, instead of having these
trends, you just call a driverless | 0:55:43 | 0:55:48 | |
vehicle and it takes you really want
to go? He eats for getting people to | 0:55:48 | 0:55:54 | |
replace car journeys with public
transport is having a turn up and go | 0:55:54 | 0:55:57 | |
public transport system. In London,
you do not have to wait very long | 0:55:57 | 0:56:01 | |
before something comes up. That is
clearly not the case in London, you | 0:56:01 | 0:56:03 | |
do not have to wait very long before
something comes up. That is clearly | 0:56:03 | 0:56:06 | |
not the case and well. In parts of
the country, the last bus leaves at | 0:56:06 | 0:56:09 | |
4pm. There are four trains per day
from some places to Swansea, or a | 0:56:09 | 0:56:14 | |
bus that takes you to and a half
hours for a 30 minute card running. | 0:56:14 | 0:56:18 | |
You will not persuade people to give
up their car in those circumstances, | 0:56:18 | 0:56:23 | |
so how can we realistically create a
turn up and caught transport system | 0:56:23 | 0:56:26 | |
in Swansea Bay? You cannot rely on
the train network, as you would in | 0:56:26 | 0:56:29 | |
the valleys, so we need to think
imaginatively. I am then, let's not | 0:56:29 | 0:56:35 | |
play catch up, let's try to
leapfrog. When you see leapfrog and | 0:56:35 | 0:56:39 | |
catch up, you are suggesting these
driverless vehicles, which are being | 0:56:39 | 0:56:43 | |
tested, they are being used in
places like Greenwich in London | 0:56:43 | 0:56:48 | |
already, but it is an emerging
technology at best. I guess the | 0:56:48 | 0:56:52 | |
problem could be at the risk to
boot, you know, your eggs in that | 0:56:52 | 0:56:55 | |
basket, because it may not work on
end. The Swansea Bay region is just | 0:56:55 | 0:57:02 | |
a concept, an outline study being
commissioned. These things are | 0:57:02 | 0:57:04 | |
moving very quickly. Six years ago,
Hooper did not exist. Half of all | 0:57:04 | 0:57:09 | |
journeys in London are now made by
Goober, and they have a pool | 0:57:09 | 0:57:17 | |
servers, which is basically a
minibus. -- are made by Uber. That | 0:57:17 | 0:57:24 | |
sort of technology is already making
existing large, empty buses | 0:57:24 | 0:57:29 | |
redundant. People do not want to go
on them. You add automated vehicles | 0:57:29 | 0:57:32 | |
into the mix and the UK government
expect them to be on sale in the UK | 0:57:32 | 0:57:38 | |
in three years. This is happening
quickly. Let's not try to create a | 0:57:38 | 0:57:44 | |
Manchester or Sheffield - type tram
system, we are 30 years behind the | 0:57:44 | 0:57:48 | |
curve. Let's try to leapfrog, using
new technology and creating the | 0:57:48 | 0:57:52 | |
Swansea Bay region as a test-bed, to
try out the driverless technology. | 0:57:52 | 0:57:58 | |
We can try out wireless recharging.
We can go through the regulatory | 0:57:58 | 0:58:02 | |
barriers and access hurdles, so we
see come to us, experiment here, we | 0:58:02 | 0:58:06 | |
will underpin it with the five G
test-bed, and let's do something | 0:58:06 | 0:58:08 | |
exciting. Is the danger not, it is
exciting, it could work, but the | 0:58:08 | 0:58:13 | |
problem is you are saying testing
out a novel lot of new technologies. | 0:58:13 | 0:58:18 | |
Maybe people in Swansea Bay did not
want to be the guinea pigs. Stop | 0:58:18 | 0:58:23 | |
being so conservative! Look at the
power that we have. It is public | 0:58:23 | 0:58:28 | |
money. Look at broadband. We spend
tens of million pounds to | 0:58:28 | 0:58:36 | |
tens of million pounds to give BT
old-fashioned telephone cabinets | 0:58:37 | 0:58:41 | |
with copper wire, but if you had
started with fibre, this is an exact | 0:58:41 | 0:58:46 | |
parallel. For too long, we have been
playing catch-up and are not very | 0:58:46 | 0:58:49 | |
good. We take ages and the result is
often pretty shoddy. We are starting | 0:58:49 | 0:58:55 | |
from a blank sheet of paper, let's
go straight to the future solution, | 0:58:55 | 0:58:59 | |
rather than playing catch up. This
comes across the desk of the economy | 0:58:59 | 0:59:05 | |
and transport Secretary, we know he
is quite keen on driverless | 0:59:05 | 0:59:09 | |
vehicles, he wants Welsh roads to be
tested... Test centres for | 0:59:09 | 0:59:14 | |
driverless vehicles, do you think
you would go something like this? I | 0:59:14 | 0:59:17 | |
am hoping he will. Things are moving
quick. The place we are currently | 0:59:17 | 0:59:23 | |
moving, the Cardiff and valleys
Metro is moving very slowly because | 0:59:23 | 0:59:26 | |
that is complex. In the next five
years, you will not see many new | 0:59:26 | 0:59:29 | |
services because of all of the
transferring of the track and | 0:59:29 | 0:59:31 | |
converting it to L. All
prerequisites to get a real system | 0:59:31 | 0:59:34 | |
working in a different way.
Driverless technology offers us the | 0:59:34 | 0:59:39 | |
chance to not bother with that and
having these car sharing, lift | 0:59:39 | 0:59:43 | |
sharing pods coming around and
within every want to go. The | 0:59:43 | 0:59:46 | |
exciting thing with machine
learning, artificial intelligence, | 0:59:46 | 0:59:49 | |
it is changing rapidly. What machine
learning will do if the computer | 0:59:49 | 0:59:54 | |
algorithm will create the routes
where people want to go, so you | 0:59:54 | 0:59:57 | |
won't have timetables, it will go
from maps, two apps. That is the | 0:59:57 | 1:00:03 | |
exciting opportunity here. Do you
think there would need to be a | 1:00:03 | 1:00:07 | |
hybrid, will you would have to have
some of those buses and trains, as | 1:00:07 | 1:00:10 | |
well as having these boards, and
then it becomes incredibly expensive | 1:00:10 | 1:00:14 | |
to deliver all of that? To begin
with, clearly, we will have to | 1:00:14 | 1:00:18 | |
transition is, which is why we will
need a test-bed to work this out. | 1:00:18 | 1:00:21 | |
But if we can crack it in certain
areas, we can be the place that | 1:00:21 | 1:00:26 | |
people look to to see what the
future of public transport looks | 1:00:26 | 1:00:28 | |
like, rather than trying to ape part
of England 20 to 30 years ahead of | 1:00:28 | 1:00:32 | |
us. You see it will not happen any
Jensen, how much of a timetable, if | 1:00:32 | 1:00:36 | |
you excuse the pun, how soon do you
think this could be in place? We | 1:00:36 | 1:00:42 | |
need to start the planning now
because driverless vehicles will be | 1:00:42 | 1:00:46 | |
on UK roads within three years. It
is happening at pace. We need to be | 1:00:46 | 1:00:51 | |
all over it. There is a broader
economic point. I do not want | 1:00:51 | 1:00:57 | |
Swansea Bay to be committing that
the Cardiff. We need to start | 1:00:57 | 1:01:04 | |
creating a public transport system
that creates viable, vibrant | 1:01:04 | 1:01:08 | |
communities. That is it from me, but
we are on Twitter of course. For | 1:01:08 | 1:01:12 | |
now, thank | 1:01:12 | 1:01:15 | |
the consensus. We will have to leave
it there, back to Sarah. Welcome | 1:01:25 | 1:01:25 | |
back. | 1:01:25 | 1:01:27 | |
A row has erupted in the influential
Brexit Select Committee of MPs. | 1:01:27 | 1:01:31 | |
The majority of pro-Remain MPs
on the committee, led | 1:01:31 | 1:01:33 | |
by the Labour Chairman Hilary Benn,
have backed a report saying | 1:01:33 | 1:01:35 | |
that the Article 50 process may
need to be extended, | 1:01:35 | 1:01:38 | |
so that Brexit would happen
later than March 2019. | 1:01:38 | 1:01:40 | |
But that infuriated the minority
of pro-Brexit MPs on the committee, | 1:01:40 | 1:01:43 | |
who have published their own report,
which says that delaying | 1:01:43 | 1:01:45 | |
Brexit would not respect
the referendum result. | 1:01:45 | 1:01:47 | |
One of those pro-Brexit MPs
on the committee, Jacob Rees-Mogg, | 1:01:47 | 1:01:49 | |
said: "The majority report
is the prospectus | 1:01:49 | 1:01:51 | |
for the vassal state. | 1:01:51 | 1:01:52 | |
It is a future not worthy of us
as a country, and I am sure that | 1:01:52 | 1:01:56 | |
Theresa May will rightly reject
a report by the high | 1:01:56 | 1:01:58 | |
priests of Remain." | 1:01:58 | 1:02:04 | |
The majority report is an attempt
to keep us in the EU | 1:02:06 | 1:02:09 | |
by sleight of hand." | 1:02:09 | 1:02:09 | |
The Committee Chairman is Labour MP
Hilary Benn and he joins me now. | 1:02:09 | 1:02:13 | |
Have you been called a high priest
before? Many things but never a high | 1:02:13 | 1:02:18 | |
Have you been called a high priest
priest. He says you are trying to | 1:02:18 | 1:02:20 | |
delay Brexit | 1:02:20 | 1:02:22 | |
priest. He says you are trying to
because you are | 1:02:22 | 1:02:24 | |
priest. He says you are trying to
Remainer. That's not the case, not | 1:02:24 | 1:02:25 | |
about undermining the referendum
result, is about the problem we | 1:02:25 | 1:02:28 | |
face, there are seven months to go | 1:02:28 | 1:02:30 | |
result, is about the problem we
until the Article 50 negotiations | 1:02:30 | 1:02:32 | |
are due to end. There | 1:02:32 | 1:02:34 | |
until the Article 50 negotiations
host of issues that have | 1:02:34 | 1:02:37 | |
until the Article 50 negotiations
been addressed. We haven't started | 1:02:37 | 1:02:37 | |
negotiating our future economic
relationship, what will happen to | 1:02:37 | 1:02:41 | |
trade, services, 80% of the British
economy's services, how will we work | 1:02:41 | 1:02:47 | |
trade, services, 80% of the British
together on defence, foreign policy | 1:02:47 | 1:02:47 | |
and security, really important | 1:02:47 | 1:02:51 | |
together on defence, foreign policy
the wake of the Salisbury attack, | 1:02:51 | 1:02:56 | |
cooperating on aviation safety, food | 1:02:56 | 1:02:57 | |
the wake of the Salisbury attack,
safety, medicines, research, and | 1:02:57 | 1:03:00 | |
the wake of the Salisbury attack,
question of how to keep an open | 1:03:00 | 1:03:00 | |
border between Northern Ireland | 1:03:00 | 1:03:05 | |
question of how to keep an open
be set out by October? We didn't set | 1:03:05 | 1:03:06 | |
the deadline of the sort of the
the deadline of the sort of the | 1:03:06 | 1:03:08 | |
negotiating process | 1:03:08 | 1:03:10 | |
the deadline of the sort of the
pointed out when the deal is agreed | 1:03:10 | 1:03:17 | |
-- European Council. If there | 1:03:18 | 1:03:19 | |
-- European Council. If there are a
whole load of things that have not | 1:03:19 | 1:03:23 | |
whole load of things that have not
yet been negotiated the government | 1:03:23 | 1:03:23 | |
could ask | 1:03:23 | 1:03:25 | |
yet been negotiated the government
Article 50 process and one of the | 1:03:25 | 1:03:27 | |
things that we say is when David
Davis came to give evidence to us, | 1:03:27 | 1:03:31 | |
he said we don't want to | 1:03:31 | 1:03:33 | |
Davis came to give evidence to us,
negotiating really important issues | 1:03:33 | 1:03:34 | |
Davis came to give evidence to us,
in the transition period because the | 1:03:34 | 1:03:36 | |
Davis came to give evidence to us,
balance of power changes. What we | 1:03:36 | 1:03:38 | |
are seeing is the best way to get
are seeing is the best way to get | 1:03:38 | 1:03:41 | |
the best deal for the British people
is to do so when you have the | 1:03:41 | 1:03:43 | |
is to do so when you have the
maximum negotiating clout and that | 1:03:43 | 1:03:44 | |
is during the Article 50 period.
Without a hard deadline of the two | 1:03:44 | 1:03:50 | |
years since triggering Article 50,
the EU could just delay and delay | 1:03:50 | 1:03:54 | |
years since triggering Article 50,
and delay this to the point that it | 1:03:54 | 1:03:55 | |
is a | 1:03:55 | 1:03:59 | |
and delay this to the point that it
as not leaving the EU. The body | 1:03:59 | 1:04:00 | |
wants a never-ending process. | 1:04:00 | 1:04:02 | |
as not leaving the EU. The body
be some in the EU who wouldn't mind, | 1:04:02 | 1:04:05 | |
as not leaving the EU. The body
they would prefer it to a | 1:04:05 | 1:04:06 | |
as not leaving the EU. The body
Brexit. They might | 1:04:06 | 1:04:08 | |
as not leaving the EU. The body
referendum decision has | 1:04:08 | 1:04:11 | |
as not leaving the EU. The body
We have seen another example this | 1:04:11 | 1:04:11 | |
week, Chris Grayling, the Transport
Secretary, said we would | 1:04:11 | 1:04:15 | |
week, Chris Grayling, the Transport
to put checks on goods coming in to | 1:04:15 | 1:04:18 | |
week, Chris Grayling, the Transport
Dover. Knows that the customs | 1:04:18 | 1:04:21 | |
week, Chris Grayling, the Transport
relations are not ready so these are | 1:04:21 | 1:04:23 | |
week, Chris Grayling, the Transport
serious issues that face the | 1:04:23 | 1:04:23 | |
country. Or the businesses I speak
to so we understand how it works | 1:04:23 | 1:04:31 | |
today and can you tell us how it
will work tomorrow when we have left | 1:04:31 | 1:04:34 | |
and the answer is we don't | 1:04:34 | 1:04:37 | |
will work tomorrow when we have left
because we haven't negotiated it. It | 1:04:37 | 1:04:39 | |
will work tomorrow when we have left
is about taking a sufficient time to | 1:04:39 | 1:04:39 | |
get a decent deal. Everybody | 1:04:39 | 1:04:41 | |
is about taking a sufficient time to
that the detailed negotiation is | 1:04:41 | 1:04:42 | |
going to take place during the
transition period because you are | 1:04:42 | 1:04:45 | |
not going to | 1:04:45 | 1:04:49 | |
between now and October. Would you
need to impose another hard deadline | 1:04:49 | 1:04:51 | |
between now and October. Would you
in order to keep minds focused. Not | 1:04:51 | 1:04:57 | |
allow the balance of power to shift
to those in the EU who could delay | 1:04:57 | 1:05:01 | |
and delay if this is an open-ended | 1:05:01 | 1:05:03 | |
to those in the EU who could delay
and this would only happen if the | 1:05:03 | 1:05:05 | |
government were to ask for it. It | 1:05:05 | 1:05:07 | |
and this would only happen if the
other EU 27. Of all of the other | 1:05:07 | 1:05:10 | |
member states. But it is about
having flexibility, remember the row | 1:05:10 | 1:05:14 | |
when the government put a hard | 1:05:14 | 1:05:16 | |
having flexibility, remember the row
deadline of 11 o'clock on the 29th | 1:05:16 | 1:05:16 | |
of March? Lots of people including | 1:05:16 | 1:05:19 | |
deadline of 11 o'clock on the 29th
Conservative said this is | 1:05:19 | 1:05:21 | |
deadline of 11 o'clock on the 29th
sensible. When you are engaged in | 1:05:21 | 1:05:22 | |
deadline of 11 o'clock on the 29th
negotiation that is as complex and | 1:05:22 | 1:05:24 | |
challenging as this, to | 1:05:24 | 1:05:26 | |
negotiation that is as complex and
absolutely hard deadline | 1:05:26 | 1:05:27 | |
negotiation that is as complex and
help you get the right outcome for | 1:05:27 | 1:05:29 | |
the British people. There is | 1:05:29 | 1:05:31 | |
help you get the right outcome for
accusation from the people on your | 1:05:31 | 1:05:32 | |
committee who don't agree with your | 1:05:32 | 1:05:34 | |
accusation from the people on your
conclusions who published | 1:05:34 | 1:05:39 | |
conclusions who published this
minority report, which is that you | 1:05:39 | 1:05:41 | |
conclusions who published this
are trying to keep | 1:05:41 | 1:05:43 | |
Single Market and customs union by
the back door using the Irish border | 1:05:43 | 1:05:45 | |
issue to do that. | 1:05:45 | 1:05:48 | |
preferred outcome that we stayed in
issue to do that. | 1:05:48 | 1:05:49 | |
this customs union and Single
Market. It is my preferred point, | 1:05:49 | 1:05:53 | |
position but they have not reached a
decision in the review. The | 1:05:53 | 1:05:57 | |
government set a high bar on the
Irish border, it wants | 1:05:57 | 1:06:02 | |
government set a high bar on the
no infrastructure, and I agree. As | 1:06:02 | 1:06:03 | |
things stand at the moment, because
the government hasn't come forward | 1:06:03 | 1:06:06 | |
things stand at the moment, because
with a proposal as to how to deliver | 1:06:06 | 1:06:09 | |
things stand at the moment, because
that in practice, we don't see how | 1:06:09 | 1:06:13 | |
things stand at the moment, because
you can reconcile that objective | 1:06:13 | 1:06:13 | |
with the Government's commitment to
leave the Single Market and customs | 1:06:13 | 1:06:16 | |
union. This will come back again and
again in the negotiations until it | 1:06:16 | 1:06:20 | |
is resolved. My own personal view is
is resolved. My own personal view | 1:06:20 | 1:06:23 | |
staying in a customs union would
is resolved. My own personal view | 1:06:23 | 1:06:24 | |
staying in a customs union would
provide part of the answer | 1:06:24 | 1:06:26 | |
staying in a customs union would
keeping that border open, which is | 1:06:26 | 1:06:26 | |
what everyone says they want. It is
a pretty rotten state of affairs | 1:06:26 | 1:06:31 | |
a pretty rotten state of affairs
when your Select Committee produces | 1:06:31 | 1:06:33 | |
majority and minority report | 1:06:33 | 1:06:35 | |
when your Select Committee produces
are clearly absolutely split on | 1:06:35 | 1:06:38 | |
when your Select Committee produces
principles of this. It is not | 1:06:38 | 1:06:39 | |
unprecedented but I wish we | 1:06:39 | 1:06:41 | |
principles of this. It is not
able to reach agreement. You know | 1:06:41 | 1:06:42 | |
what, the referendum showed the | 1:06:42 | 1:06:44 | |
able to reach agreement. You know
nation was divided down | 1:06:44 | 1:06:46 | |
able to reach agreement. You know
the Cabinet is divided, there are | 1:06:46 | 1:06:47 | |
different views in Parliament, it's
not entirely surprising that we find | 1:06:47 | 1:06:50 | |
different views in Parliament, it's
that reflected in the Select | 1:06:50 | 1:06:53 | |
different views in Parliament, it's
Committee I have the honour to be | 1:06:53 | 1:06:54 | |
the chair of. Thank you, we will
pick up some Brexit issues and some | 1:06:54 | 1:06:58 | |
the chair of. Thank you, we will
more of what will be happening with | 1:06:58 | 1:06:59 | |
Brexit this week with the panel.
Isabel Oakeshott, Hilary Benn has a | 1:06:59 | 1:07:03 | |
Isabel Oakeshott, Hilary Benn has a
point, doesn't he, that his | 1:07:03 | 1:07:05 | |
committee is no war split and,
frankly, the Cabinet, the country or | 1:07:05 | 1:07:09 | |
both political parties are on this
matter? I think that is a fair | 1:07:09 | 1:07:14 | |
both political parties are on this
but on the substantive | 1:07:14 | 1:07:15 | |
both political parties are on this
recommendation about delaying Brexit | 1:07:15 | 1:07:16 | |
further, I cannot see how that could
possibly strengthen our position to | 1:07:16 | 1:07:21 | |
have us begging for more time here.
I think the one thing that I am sure | 1:07:21 | 1:07:27 | |
you here, Hilary Benn, when you | 1:07:27 | 1:07:28 | |
I think the one thing that I am sure
on the | 1:07:28 | 1:07:31 | |
I think the one thing that I am sure
get on with this? People don't want | 1:07:31 | 1:07:31 | |
this process to be any more
elongated. If anything it just | 1:07:31 | 1:07:36 | |
this process to be any more
increases uncertainty for business. | 1:07:36 | 1:07:38 | |
Hillary. Somebody summed this up
beautifully to me the other day, for | 1:07:38 | 1:07:44 | |
beautifully to me the other day, for
something that is apparently so | 1:07:44 | 1:07:46 | |
simple, it's really, really
complicated, isn't it? Over 45 years | 1:07:46 | 1:07:49 | |
we have built this network of
relationships, laws, the ways | 1:07:49 | 1:07:54 | |
we have built this network of
businesses operate. I was at a | 1:07:54 | 1:07:56 | |
conference of the creative
industries on Thursday and they are | 1:07:56 | 1:08:00 | |
concerned about intellectual
property and broadcasting into | 1:08:00 | 1:08:02 | |
concerned about intellectual
Europe, and the ability of musicians | 1:08:02 | 1:08:03 | |
to go on to travel. All sorts of
questions people have got from a | 1:08:03 | 1:08:08 | |
perfectly legitimate ones, | 1:08:08 | 1:08:12 | |
questions people have got from a
it is going to work and is not | 1:08:12 | 1:08:12 | |
entirely surprising, whatever the
frustration people feel, and I | 1:08:12 | 1:08:14 | |
recognise that, it will take time to
sort it out in a way that works for | 1:08:14 | 1:08:18 | |
sort it out in a way that works for
us. It's not about working for | 1:08:18 | 1:08:20 | |
us. It's not about working for
Europe, we want a deal that we can | 1:08:20 | 1:08:22 | |
both agree on, but it's got | 1:08:22 | 1:08:25 | |
Europe, we want a deal that we can
for us and look after our interests, | 1:08:25 | 1:08:27 | |
that's our job. Lucy, David Davis is | 1:08:27 | 1:08:30 | |
for us and look after our interests,
on his way back to Brussels | 1:08:30 | 1:08:31 | |
for us and look after our interests,
negotiations trying to sign off with | 1:08:31 | 1:08:32 | |
Michel Barnier the transition period
of the deal there. What is the issue | 1:08:32 | 1:08:39 | |
that must be decided before the | 1:08:39 | 1:08:44 | |
of the deal there. What is the issue
the week? The main stumbling block | 1:08:44 | 1:08:44 | |
is the Irish | 1:08:44 | 1:08:45 | |
the week? The main stumbling block
Hillary pointed out. | 1:08:45 | 1:08:48 | |
the week? The main stumbling block
position which goes some way to | 1:08:48 | 1:08:50 | |
solving the issue, which is | 1:08:50 | 1:08:52 | |
position which goes some way to
remain in the customs union. A | 1:08:52 | 1:08:56 | |
position which goes some way to
customs union. A customs union, | 1:08:56 | 1:08:56 | |
forgive me. It is hard to see how
that will be established in any kind | 1:08:56 | 1:09:00 | |
of technical, substantive way. We
will have to rely on good to | 1:09:00 | 1:09:05 | |
of technical, substantive way. We
past that at | 1:09:05 | 1:09:07 | |
of technical, substantive way. We
understanding is there are UK fears | 1:09:07 | 1:09:10 | |
of technical, substantive way. We
that Dublin may receive backing from | 1:09:10 | 1:09:11 | |
the Germans and French this week
that will cause more problems on | 1:09:11 | 1:09:14 | |
that but it is essential that the
transition deal is formally agreed | 1:09:14 | 1:09:18 | |
at the European Council this week | 1:09:18 | 1:09:21 | |
transition deal is formally agreed
for two reasons. Firstly, we need | 1:09:21 | 1:09:22 | |
transition deal is formally agreed
move the talks on to the trade | 1:09:22 | 1:09:24 | |
agreement, we want to reach. And
secondly, it | 1:09:24 | 1:09:31 | |
agreement, we want to reach. And
situation will be regarding the UK's | 1:09:31 | 1:09:31 | |
relationship with the EU up to
September 2020. This is the last | 1:09:31 | 1:09:38 | |
moment UK businesses have said | 1:09:38 | 1:09:40 | |
September 2020. This is the last
government can wait to give firm | 1:09:40 | 1:09:42 | |
signals on it before they revert | 1:09:42 | 1:09:45 | |
government can wait to give firm
contingency plans. Hillary talks up | 1:09:45 | 1:09:47 | |
government can wait to give firm
negotiating leverage and we gave our | 1:09:47 | 1:09:49 | |
leveraged away when we invoked
Article 50 without pre-negotiations, | 1:09:49 | 1:09:53 | |
Article 50 without pre-negotiations,
because we put the clock on | 1:09:53 | 1:09:53 | |
ourselves. With and have two years
to negotiate everything and Michel | 1:09:53 | 1:09:59 | |
Barnier set the date and | 1:09:59 | 1:10:01 | |
to negotiate everything and Michel
then go to him to potentially | 1:10:01 | 1:10:04 | |
to negotiate everything and Michel
for more time and I think we have | 1:10:04 | 1:10:04 | |
really put ourselves | 1:10:04 | 1:10:07 | |
for more time and I think we have
position by doing that. Given that | 1:10:07 | 1:10:10 | |
situation, would it be better to go,
situation, would it be better to go, | 1:10:10 | 1:10:12 | |
in your words, begging for more
in your words, begging for more | 1:10:12 | 1:10:13 | |
time, or | 1:10:13 | 1:10:15 | |
in your words, begging for more
that people's mines are concentrated | 1:10:15 | 1:10:19 | |
in your words, begging for more
on getting the deal done? I think | 1:10:19 | 1:10:20 | |
the deadline, the date we are
supposed to be leaving, | 1:10:20 | 1:10:23 | |
the deadline, the date we are
the government in the withdrawal | 1:10:23 | 1:10:23 | |
bill for political reasons. I think
that was all performative really. I | 1:10:23 | 1:10:28 | |
don't think there is is Dummigan
reason why there cannot be | 1:10:28 | 1:10:34 | |
don't think there is is Dummigan
to. If we can | 1:10:34 | 1:10:35 | |
don't think there is is Dummigan
deal in the short term, there is no | 1:10:35 | 1:10:37 | |
reason why we can't, as Hilary said,
I now the details in the transition | 1:10:37 | 1:10:42 | |
period. What other sticking points
on the withdrawal agreement? It | 1:10:42 | 1:10:45 | |
on the withdrawal agreement? It
seems David Davis is saying this | 1:10:45 | 1:10:48 | |
seems David Davis is saying this
week he is relaxed about a | 1:10:48 | 1:10:49 | |
transition | 1:10:49 | 1:10:51 | |
week he is relaxed about a
full two years, only up until | 1:10:51 | 1:10:55 | |
Christmas 2021. It feels a little | 1:10:55 | 1:10:58 | |
full two years, only up until
bit -- not lusting for a full two | 1:10:58 | 1:11:00 | |
years. When we get it is crunch
decisions with the withdrawal | 1:11:00 | 1:11:04 | |
years. When we get it is crunch
agreement and the negotiation | 1:11:04 | 1:11:06 | |
years. When we get it is crunch
transition agreement, that the UK | 1:11:06 | 1:11:07 | |
caves at the last minute. Where | 1:11:07 | 1:11:11 | |
transition agreement, that the UK
we see a win for the UK in these | 1:11:11 | 1:11:13 | |
transition agreement, that the UK
deadlines? Every time we get abuse | 1:11:13 | 1:11:13 | |
crunch | 1:11:13 | 1:11:16 | |
deadlines? Every time we get abuse
Parliament try and cause us to cave. | 1:11:16 | 1:11:17 | |
deadlines? Every time we get abuse
That is a difficulty government has. | 1:11:17 | 1:11:19 | |
deadlines? Every time we get abuse
It has been undermined by its own | 1:11:19 | 1:11:22 | |
deadlines? Every time we get abuse
backbenchers, we have the Brexit | 1:11:22 | 1:11:23 | |
committee coming up with divided | 1:11:23 | 1:11:25 | |
backbenchers, we have the Brexit
reports suggesting more delay. I | 1:11:25 | 1:11:27 | |
think there will be massive push
back on that. I don't think | 1:11:27 | 1:11:31 | |
think there will be massive push
happen. There is no way any | 1:11:31 | 1:11:32 | |
extension of this time period is
acceptable to Theresa May's | 1:11:32 | 1:11:37 | |
extension of this time period is
Brexiteer MPs to whom she is in | 1:11:37 | 1:11:39 | |
hock, so that can't happen. | 1:11:39 | 1:11:43 | |
Brexiteer MPs to whom she is in
problem is, Matt, it is just going | 1:11:43 | 1:11:43 | |
to expand to fill | 1:11:43 | 1:11:46 | |
problem is, Matt, it is just going
available. We need these deadlines, | 1:11:46 | 1:11:47 | |
uncomfortable as they may be, and in
an ideal world we might | 1:11:47 | 1:11:53 | |
uncomfortable as they may be, and in
extra days here or there to fine | 1:11:53 | 1:11:53 | |
tune things, but ultimately nobody
on your side of the | 1:11:53 | 1:11:57 | |
tune things, but ultimately nobody
going to be happy with the time | 1:11:57 | 1:11:59 | |
frame. It will simply expand and | 1:11:59 | 1:12:01 | |
going to be happy with the time
expand and expand until the de facto | 1:12:01 | 1:12:03 | |
going to be happy with the time
we just stay in the. Lucy, | 1:12:03 | 1:12:06 | |
going to be happy with the time
any prospect, given where | 1:12:06 | 1:12:08 | |
going to be happy with the time
the moment waiting to sign off | 1:12:08 | 1:12:10 | |
going to be happy with the time
deal on the transition, that we | 1:12:10 | 1:12:11 | |
going to be happy with the time
have a fully comprehensive trade | 1:12:11 | 1:12:13 | |
agreement in place by October to go
for ratification to the European | 1:12:13 | 1:12:18 | |
Parliament? I think it's looking | 1:12:18 | 1:12:20 | |
for ratification to the European
increasingly unlikely and | 1:12:20 | 1:12:21 | |
for ratification to the European
lots of things that will not be | 1:12:21 | 1:12:23 | |
ready in time, today there are | 1:12:23 | 1:12:26 | |
lots of things that will not be
reports the Cabinet have been | 1:12:26 | 1:12:26 | |
reports the Cabinet have been | 1:12:26 | 1:12:28 | |
briefed on the fact that Customs and
reports the Cabinet have been | 1:12:28 | 1:12:28 | |
briefed on the fact that Customs and
border arrangements are not going to | 1:12:28 | 1:12:30 | |
be in place by Brexit day next
March. There is still a lot | 1:12:30 | 1:12:36 | |
be in place by Brexit day next
questions around that. Going back to | 1:12:36 | 1:12:38 | |
be in place by Brexit day next
the question of the polarisation in | 1:12:38 | 1:12:39 | |
Parliament, in the Cabinet, in the
Parliament, in the Cabinet, in the | 1:12:39 | 1:12:41 | |
country over Brexit and some | 1:12:41 | 1:12:43 | |
Parliament, in the Cabinet, in the
positions government has put | 1:12:43 | 1:12:44 | |
Parliament, in the Cabinet, in the
so far, there are still so many | 1:12:44 | 1:12:46 | |
so far, there are still so many
questions left unanswered. Theresa | 1:12:46 | 1:12:47 | |
May hasn't really filled in | 1:12:47 | 1:12:51 | |
questions left unanswered. Theresa
detail about what you would like to | 1:12:51 | 1:12:51 | |
see with trade and customs and | 1:12:51 | 1:12:53 | |
detail about what you would like to
question marks over how the | 1:12:53 | 1:12:56 | |
government envisages immigration | 1:12:56 | 1:12:57 | |
question marks over how the
working at the Brexit. A | 1:12:57 | 1:13:01 | |
question marks over how the
detail. Thank you to all of my | 1:13:01 | 1:13:02 | |
guests, Lucy Fisher, Isabel
Oakeshott, Matt Zarb-Cousin is an | 1:13:02 | 1:13:06 | |
guests, Lucy Fisher, Isabel
Hilary Benn are still on the set. | 1:13:06 | 1:13:08 | |
Join me again next Sunday
at 11am here on BBC One. | 1:13:08 | 1:13:11 | |
Until then, bye-bye. | 1:13:11 | 1:13:14 |
Sarah Smith and Arwyn Jones' guests are Foreign Office minister Sir Alan Duncan MP and chair of the Home Affairs Select Committee Yvette Cooper MP. The political panel consists of political journalist and commentator Isabel Oakeshott, former adviser to Jeremy Corbyn Matthew Zarb-Cousin and senior political correspondent for the Times Lucy Fisher.