05/02/2012 Sunday Politics West Midlands

In the Midlands are we are rummaging in your rubbish and

finding some startling information. Dumping in landfill costs councils

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1759 seconds

Hello. Coming up today, the true cost of dumping rubbish into

landfill. Councils are paying out millions, keeping more pressure on

their budgets as they fail to meet recycling targets. I wonder who

will be on target here today and who will just be dumping rubbish?

Nadhim Zahawi is the MP for Stratford on Avon and Richard

Burden is the Labour MP for Birmingham. A this is just like the

awkward squad who made life a misery for John Major. At in our

party we have an open and frank discussion. Actually, that resulted

us in staying out of the euro. If you look back now we have people

like Bill Cash and others to thank for that, especially John Major. It

is not too bad to have a robust debate and make sure government is

doing the right thing. Talking of robust debates, Richard, I will

helpfully point lead the Labour leadership issue you campaign for

David Miliband rather than his brother. David, in the New

Statesman this week said Labour should engage in a restless

rethinking of its future directions. You also see in that up -- article

that David Miliband heaped quite a lot of praise on his brother. It is

right that all parties cannot take anything for granted. Where is the

evidence of wrestlers rethinking of the future direction? We have got

to recognise that we suffered a defeat. The Tories did not win in

2010, but we certainly were beaten, there is no doubt about that. It is

right we look at our policy, what the country will need, not now but

in 2015. Let's get on with our top country this week. The fall in the

number of Midlands students applying to university. It is down

by 7%. Our students being put off by tuition fees of up to �9,000 the

year being charged by some universities? We have been on

campus to find out. Universities in this part of the

country have seen just over 3,000 fewer students applying for courses

compared to last year. A but the sector remains confident. We still

had 24,500 students for 3,500 places. Aston University saw a fall

in applications of 20%. In contrast the University of Wolverhampton

bucks the national trend with a rise in applications of 5.4%.

Coventry University also saw an increase of 2%. Despite the decline

in applications, the university's ministers says he is encouraged

that the number of people applying from disadvantaged backgrounds

appears to have stayed the same. The lecturer's union say the hike

in university fees is sheer folly. And the Midlands MP and shadow

Universities Minister called for a lower fees cap of �6,000. That is

an immediate measure that the Government could do if they

exercise their choices differ only and said clearly, we are going to

support young people rather than the banks. Current undergraduates

we spoke to say they would still have applied despite the higher

fees. Midlands universities have told us youngsters have a better

chance in life with a higher education degree.

Also with us here today is Professor David Green, the vice

chancellor of was to university. He is an economist but we will forgive

him that. He is the only current university executive head serving

on the board of England's Training and Development Agency responsible

for teacher training in schools. What has been your experience in

Worcester on applications this time round? Our applications are just

fractionally above last year at four UK's students. We are out liar

because we have been the fastest- growing university for at the past

few years. You also charged at 8,100 per year which is slightly

lower than some of the fees. Is there a pattern that those with the

higher fees like Aston are suffering the biggest downturn?

do not think there is any correlation at all. I think it is

all to do with what graduates are thinking in terms of employability

and opportunities. Particularly universities, maybe it is the

quality of their marketing campaign or something like that. Aston is a

splendid institution, but it is important for us to think, what can

we do to help our graduates become more employable and earn their way

through university. We have heard the dip in numbers and are part of

the country has been slightly less than the English average. How are

concerned should we be about the general picture question mark we

should be concerned. At a moment when the country really needs to

invest in education and we need a more educated and skilled

population to help us produce a way out of prosperity we have two

problems. We are probably on course for one person in 10 fewer apply

for university. Then we have about 17,500 fewer places in the country.

At the point where we need more knowledgeable, skilled graduates,

we are getting fewer. You have to look beyond the numbers. One of the

quirks of this year is a quirk of birthrate. 18 years ago there were

fewer births. Is that the total explanation? Absolutely not. We

have to watch very carefully, but I am encouraged that in the lower

socio-economic groups there has been hardly any change throughout

the whole country. We have to be mindful of what is happening and be

careful to watch. In terms of quality, one of the great

indicators is students coming to this country from non EU countries

which is up by almost 14%. It is an important indicator in terms of

quality of education. The real point is that the doom-mongers have

been wrong. The idea that we would fall off a cliff edge in terms of

application has not happened. falling off the cliff then,

Richard? I think of Nadhim is being a bit complacent. Students that I

talk to her are really worried, and you would be when fees are troubled.

As soon as that comes in you have a big drop. 3,000 fewer students

applying to university in the West Midlands. David had a good point

that it is not simply about fees, important though that is. It is

also about students looking ahead and saying, is there any light at

the end of the tunnel. If they did not see any opportunity, that will

affected as well. We heard the suggestion of a cup of 6,000, would

that be a realistic answer? -- suggestion of a cap. Young people

feel they are being neglected by other parts of society. They have

to pay for all their education -- higher education and that is wrong.

What would you say to young people who feel neglected? I do not agree

with that. There was a survey last week which looked at young people

and their choices. Actually, it was incredibly positive in terms of

policy and the quantum of tuition fees. It has not deterred young

people making applications. One must not be complacent. The real

question to Labour is that, they have spent the bankers bonus on

opting things. You're saying let's have put it at 6,000 by taxing the

bankers again. -- let's Capper it. You need the political will, the

Tories have not got it, we have. Final word with you, Professor

Green. Is there a political will to keep a watch on this? We should

have a consensus. We need a more skilled population. Universities

are central to that and we must invest in our young people for the

future of the country. Whatever your point of view on this, there

is no question that these are very tough times for young people.

Let's moved on to research by this programme which has found local

authorities are forking out millions in fines over rubbish.

They can cost as much as some councils spend on libraries, four

times their rural bus subsidies. As budgets are slashed and jobs cut,

is it fair to penalise them for missing a European cycling --

It is been day on the Dines Green estate in Worcester. Last week, it

was recycling. This week, there is only one place the rubbish is

heading. The landfill site on the edge of town is home to 180,000

tonnes a year. But growing mountains of rubbish like these are

costing our councils dear. All local authorities have to pay a

landfill tax, essentially a Government find it to encourage

them to hit European recycling rates. The problem is despite the

fact our councils are throwing less to landfill, the fines are rising.

Even though more and more of us are recycling are rubbish it is not

enough to keep Brussels have before stop if you look at the headline

figure you can see we are paying more tax, therefore we must be

failing, but we are not. It is a long-term plan, you cannot change

the system overnight but you need a clear and positive strategy which

we are working to year on year. With budgets under pressure, the

landfill tax is proving a headache. In the financial year 2005-2006,

Worcester council sent 262,000 tonnes to landfill. In 2010-2011

that waste had fallen to 127,000 tonnes but the fine had shot up to

�5.8 million. At the same time Shropshire paid for 0.2 million and

Gloucestershire 7 million. The figures have caught the eye of MEPs

on the Continent. It should be a matter of the Westminster

government. We should be able to spend our money in a meaningful way

and are not be fined by the EU. reality is if we are going to

reduce our carbon emissions and catch up with our European

neighbours, the answer does not lie with holes in the ground. If people

had understood earlier the drive behind sustainability and taking on

the Green Party message a bit more, then we could have avoided a lot of

the pain of landfill tax. Whilst most agree landfill is not the way

forward, unless our accounts. Burying rubbish in the ground, they

will continue to throw away good money after bad.

Especially at a time when they do not have a lot of money. Richard,

this is something which has gone on under successive governments. An

example surely of the UK Government gold plating the euro regulations,

the effect of this escalating. It is punitive on local authorities,

especially at a time like this. There are two points. One is

landfill tax and one is where it has come from. The landfill tax was

brought in by a UK Government, a Conservative government in 1986,

continued under the Labour government and his continued under

the plait -- present government. At the root of this, it is not a good

idea to be throwing lots of rubbish under the ground. You pay the tax

if you land full. Authorities are doing their best, they have more

than halved their landfill but still the rate goes up. We need to

try and ensure that local authorities and others have the

right kind of incentives to increase their recycling rates.

We're making a lot of progress in reducing landfill but we're not

doing as well as we should on increasing recycling. You dress it

up with green arguments, but taxation is about revenue

generation, isn't it? Not quite. You have to look at the evidence.

You know I am very fond of the strategy, but look up the evidence

from Stratford council. Are recycling is up to almost 60% which

is fantastic. We have had a cheque from Warwickshire for half a

million this year because we reduced our land full. Warwickshire

County Council have joint ventures with another county to turn it

refuses into energy. Those councils who were doing really well on this,

that is important to remember. We will never hit the target we want

to hit, 50% less landfill by 2020, if people are let off the hook.

There are lots of other things that comes from Europe, other

regulations which are bad, but this is not one of them. What do you

make of the comment this is no place for you have to have a one-

size-fits-all stance? Why should you be impose itself on a domestic

issue? We are both saying that Europe is not doing that. The tax

came in as a result of his decision by successive British governments.

It may not be comfortable, but we do need to reduce landfill. You can

only have a sensible argument about Europe if you blame them for the

things they are responsible for, but do not blame them for things

that were our decisions. Surely when this came in, times were very

different. Finances with local authorities were very different

from how they are now and it is a real struggle to make ends meet. We

have heard councils are trying to wean themselves off landfill, but

are still being punished. honestly believe that if you kept

are barking up the wrong tree on this one. Local authorities are

doing the right thing, they are getting there and we will hit our

target. There are other things coming from you, the European

structural fund needs reform. That is what we should focus on. It is

absolutely wrong and takes away from your credibility if you attack

Europe on the wrong things. Let's moved on to our regular high-speed

round-up of this political week in just 60 seconds. Hass in your seat

belts. -- fasten your seatbelts. Wanted, 500 new apprentices.

Walsall council is offering money to take on youngsters and tackle

youth employment. Vince Cable parachuted into

Birmingham to lodge a flight school helping to inspire engineers of the

future. It is a real showcase for this area. A successful airport, a

good engineering, good skills. hospital parking gets you down

spare a thought to visitors to Coventry University Hospital.

Drivers wait for 25 minutes to find a space.

Olympic officials revealed an advertising ban in the Ricoh Arena.

It will be known as the City of Coventry stadium for this summer's

games. Campaigners tried to stop gypsies

developing green-belt land have been told their own camp will have

Now we hear those campaigners have decided they are not going to

appeal against the council decisions. Nadhim Zahawi, it is not

in your constituency but it is a situation where the anti-

occupation has to go but the original occupation can remain.

travellers have lost their appeal. But you're absolutely right.

Everyone should live within the lob and the campaigners have made a

good point. And I am glad they are not appealing. For people looking

at this and seeing the double standards were some people get to

break the law, and break it systematically over many years

whereas decent law-abiding people get their rights turned over.

not a fundamental failure of successive politicians which fell

to address the rights of gypsies and travelling people to have a

place of their own and to marry that with the demands of residents.

I think we have all failed on that to be honest. The last government

improve things by placing some obligations on councils. But the

fact does remain that in this part of the West Midlands there are not

enough recognised sites that works. We do need to address that. In my

constituency there were a number of issues with travellers' camps. They

were not static, they were moving around but all in the space of

about five miles. Unless we address this business of getting proper

sites, we will not solve the problems. A final word about

apprenticeships. Jail are, over 100 being offered. But 4,000

applications come off what do we make of that? On Friday I visited

Stratford College's Academy. A new state-of-the-art academy. 200

apprentices going through that. But there are too many applications, we

need more jobs. It is a success story. But we can do more. We could

use the voting power of local authorities to make sure this