19/02/2012 Sunday Politics West Midlands

Welcome. What is 130 billion euros between friends? After weeks of

uncertainty, it looks like Chris is going to get its second multi-

billion Euros bail out. Will it rescue the Greek economy from

bankruptcy? It is up to one of its In the Midlands, a Sunday politics

exclusive. Digby says know. Why is one of the most talked-about

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1714 seconds

candidates for mayor row -- ruling Hello and good morning from the

Midlands. Coming up, we will be asking a straight question

requiring a straight answer. A referendum in May will ask voters

in Birmingham and Coventry whether they want an elected mayor or not.

We will be meeting the man who is the Midlands first. Let's see if we

can extract some straight answers from our guests today. Norman, now

Lord Fowler, Conservative MP for Sutton Coldfield, one of the

longest serving members of Margaret Thatcher's cabinet. And Ms Stewart,

has nursed the Labour Party through many a year. Norman Fowler, you

famously resigned from the government to spend more time with

your family. What was the truth of that? Had you had enough of the

Iron Lady? No, it wasn't. I had a very happy period, for 15 years.

After a couple of years, my family said to me, well, they thought they

had had enough of me and they might want me to go back to politics.

Have you seen the film? I have it. Meryl Streep, I think, is fantastic.

It is a brilliant performance and she gets it all right. The full is

not as good. It is five stars for Meryl Street and three for the film

generally. I mean, they get silly things wrong. I cannot remember

Margaret Thatcher during Prime Minister's Questions wearing a hat.

I just think that is balmy. I am told by the directors and producers

it isn't at all about politics but an old lady with dementia. For you,

it wasn't so much of the Iron Lady but by entrance love. You were

never seen as one of his greatest fans. But should we applaud what he

did give him your views on Europe? He kept the country out of the

single currency. He did. And we need to give him credit for that.

The whole system is unravelling and it is a painful process inside the

euro or not. An interesting moment. We have broken the ice. The top

story, one of the most talked-about potential candidates for mayor of

Birmingham has sprung a major surprise by ruling himself out in

an exclusive interview for this programme. Lord Digby, a trade

minister and boss of the CBI, says the job confined within the city

limits would be set to fail. I asked him why. If it is not

education, then forget it. If it is not safety and security and

policing completely, forget it. If it is not transport, in all its

forms, including the whole essence of investment in transport and both

aircraft and railways and then also roads, forget it. When you have a

situation where the police actually don't look at it as Birmingham but

as a wider entity, when you look at education, where so many people are

going to school in one part and they will work in another part, and

where you have Birmingham Airport not even in Birmingham, how on

earth can a mare get up and make promises at an election which they

cannot deliver? Unless there is that control for the West Midlands

and there is actually be geographical spread for the West

Midlands, I would have a real problem in getting my name go

forward. So I would say to you today, Patrick, that unless they

had a mare going for two for the city region, unless they had

guaranteed influence and power and, indeed, executive influence and

power over all policing, all education and all transport for the

region, I will not let my name go forward. So, Digby Jones. To see

that interview in full, go to my paid on Facebook. If the referendum

triggers a competition, you will be campaigning for the Labour

nomination and he says that job is set to fail to. Two things. It is

only the mayor of Birmingham we can vote on, so to ask for a

Metropolitan Mail, that is not a trace. We are the largest authority

in the West Midlands, and talking about power, misunderstands the way

practical decisions are made. If there was a mayor of Birmingham,

directly elected by the people of the city, working together with the

local enterprise partnerships, but in Greater Birmingham and the Black

Country, you can create all of these relationships and do what he

wants. He does say that the important elements, the airport,

NEC, all of that is outside the city, so there is no direct

leverage. Except that Birmingham Airport at the NEC would not have

happened without the leadership which Birmingham took, so that

tells you you can do something from -- for the region. I used surprised

by this turn off events? particularly. His reason is

nonsensical. The fact is that we had some of these regional

structures that he wants, the West Midlands County Council, not as

much power as Digby once. He says they are necessary. That is

nonsense. I think that he is a shrewd campaigner. He is not going

to win, he knows, so he will not let his name go forward. To be

honest, I am not sure if politics really runs through the veins of

Digby Jones. He is a great industrialist, great commercial

person. But some of the things he wants are simply not... No one is

ever going to give them to him. Actually, I don't think... That is

the point. He says you need to escape the straitjacket and think

in a list party-political wave of stock take Boris Johnson. He is

looking at getting an airport. An airport dam in the estuary, which

belongs to Essex or Kent. You don't have to own everything to actually

cooperate. That is the bit. The debate is very good, and he did a

very good job the Besigye eye, very good in industry, but he doesn't

have too much experience in politics. You would hope to

demonstrate it can be done, it has kept its like Digby Jones? Yes.

Boris has no authority over education whereas a Birmingham

mayor would have housing, education, public health... You take education.

He would say that is a fundamental issue facing the city and everybody

would agree. The mayor would have to have direct leverage over

education than this job suppose has. I think he misunderstands the

nature of leadership. It is not that you as the person on the top

impose the will down and you will be a strong mayor in Birmingham if

you have strong councillors and people to work with and you co-

operate with others whereas he seems to think that, though, if I

can sit at the top and coming back to the Iron Lady, she still had to

go when the Cabinet didn't support her. So is strong mayor will be one

that is supported by the people around him or her.

OK, whelp those characteristic -- recipe Digby opinions are available

on that level stock the way the city is run could be transformed.

Birmingham Coventry could have their own versions of Ken or

boroughs. We have tried it in Stoke-on-Trent.

Don't be deceived by the euphoric reception for Stoke's first elected

mayor. Democracy fools don't. the elected mayor was no more. His

Labour successor had his job abolished in a referendum six years

later. If Michael had had more time, St artworks would have become a

feature of the urban landscape but despite the City's mayoral roller-

coaster ride, he feels it is time for Birmingham and Coventry to put

a stop to an outdated system of local government. If you were

running Stoke City Football Club, for instance, Tony Pulis would not

say it would be better if it is run by a committee. In the code --

Victorian times, when local government was invented, that is

the way business conducted itself. These days, we have leaders, and

that is why organisations succeed. Ministers are warming up the debate

by consulting over extra powers for cities which decide to collect

their mayors. Each candidate would have to sell their individual wish-

list. On 3rd May, voters will be offered a tries either to retain

the existing council leaders system or replace it with a new Star City

boss. A voting yes would only trigger more questions. What should

be the powers of the mayor? Economic regeneration is the

Government's big idea along with housing and transport. What would

the councillors do? Well, scrutinised the mayor, of course,

and probably speak up for their local areas. Which, in turn, leads

to the question of localism. How could the mayor keep close to local

communities are also, at the same time, acting as a champion for the

city in the wider world? Here in Coventry, the Labour-controlled

council voted overwhelmingly against the idea. Coventry has been

forced to have a referendum. There is no evidence from the citizens we

want to one. That means that we have had to undertake costs of

�130,000 in respect of the referendum and we could have a

third election in November which would cost us a further bomb under

�30,000. At a time when we are making cuts of �17 million.

elected mayors would be seen as a further Americanisation. A more

presidential style of politics. Super Tuesday is two weeks away for

their race in the White House. On our side of the pond, November 15th

with elections for police commissioners and city mayors is

already shaping up as our own super Thursday.

Super! For a full list of some of the

people who may or may not let their names go forward if elections are

triggered by that referendum, go to my bloc. We are joined by John

Hemming, the Liberal Democrat MP for Birmingham Yardley. Last year,

Keith made an alliance with the Labour MP to campaign against the

idea of an elected mayor, which he desired -- is that as a power freak.

But far from being too powerful, the role as and powerful enough,

according to Dick be. He doesn't understand it. Human nature has not

changed. In most organisations, like football clubs, having boards,

you can remove somebody if they are not doing the right thing. The idea

of electing somebody for four years, whom the council cannot remove,

cannot stop them from doing anything apart from the control of

the Budget, that is wrong. Human nature has not a improved. Do you

take the fundamental point that you need greater accountability,

greater visibility than we have in local authorities at the moment?

People bought some the streets and, frankly would struggle to find

anybody from knows about the council. In Tower Hamlets, only a

quarter of the people voted for the mayor. I have expense of running

business as well as experience of running Birmingham City Council.

The text and -- techniques you use a different view used in politics

of stock or business organisations have accountability is. -- in

politics. All business organisations have accountability.

You could be creating a monster. The councillors and the rest of the

authority might not be able to deal with I am. At the moment, the

leader can be affected by as few as 30 councillors because 120

councillors, you need a majority of 61. You don't know who you are

voting for at the beginning and the kind of accountability is to a very

small number of councillors. If we move towards participatory

democracy, people want more of the same. -- more of a safe. I agree.

He is going to be more directly and personally accountable than we have

had before. It could be difficult. It could be megalomania. You have

got to have a balance. Have got to put your ideas into practice. I

don't think you want to actually torpedoed the person after 18

months. That is nonsensical. The other thing we have got to think

about is the world is changing. We have got the mayor in London. We

have got other ones around in the country and in Europe and the

United States as well. A city of the size and importance of

Birmingham does need somebody to go out there, to get the inward

business and to make the case for Birmingham. That is the best way to

do it. We have this strange situation where individual

candidates, it would be up to them to set out their powers, which

seems to me that should be up front in all this before we even think

about referendums. Is it not been done back-to-front? What I thought

was interesting is that some of the powers are defined, and Secretary

of State, if that was part of a candidate's election campaign,

maybe the people would think that is the power of the mayor should

have. For centuries, we have had checks and balances and human

nature has not got a brilliant. Politicians are not perfect people.

Winnie to checks and balances in business. -- we need checks and

balances. What I was unclear about, which was

a passionate denunciation, if the referendum goes in favour of a

mayor for Birmingham, will you be a candidate? My priority is

corruption in the secret courts. If I feel I have made sufficient

progress, maybe I would stand and win. I think that you are a very

clever man and the more I hear you campaigning against it, I think you

more of an anti-missile missile, the anti- mayor, the tribune of the

people. We have a secret courts in this country, and it is a problem

in this country. It is a priority. If I was to bet Today, I would bet

that you would stand. I am working on projects highlighting corruption.

Would you consider standing yourself, Norman? There are not

that many Tories put forward. one has asked me to stand. It

sounds as though it is a bit crowded around this table already!

It is a very worthwhile job and one of the most important things it is

worthwhile for is what you want a mayor to do, one of them is the

economic generation of the Midlands and training as well. If you can

get that and of a local basis, that would be brilliant. Thank you both.

We will not offer you a referendum on this, you have no tries in the

matter. A round-up of the political week in the Midlands in six to set

tense. -- in 60 seconds.

150 jobs are to go in Wolverhampton City Council taking total losses to

more than 800. It needs to save �73 million over five years.

Staying with drugs, unemployment is up for that 247,000 a out of work

in the Midlands, a rate of 9.3%. don't underestimate the challenge

of the figures we see today, but I think they would like some

stabilisation in this situation and there are quite a lot of vacancies

out there. French prosecutors have begun an

inquiry into a Nazi theme stag party at the tender by Aidan Burley.

-- attended by Ford's dog this new website one's environment secretary

Caroline Spelman arrest it. -- arrested.

See you in court, a message from campaigners opposed a high-speed

rail line from Birmingham to London. They want a judicial review.

Now, Mr Wood is the chairman of the all-party group are in support of

HS2. This could slow this thing down to a halt. I really do hope we

start to learn that big infrastructure projects need to be

proceeded with at pace. Is it a serious threat? Do you take it

seriously? I always take threats to the court seriously, but I hope

they will not go down that line, otherwise we will end up, yet again,

dithering over infrastructure projects, something we have been

suffering from enough. We need to get on with it, because if pages 2,

which will go beyond, we may not see that beyond my retirement!

over, if it isn't on the statute book by 2015, it might not happen

at all. Is the clock ticking? We have failed in this country with

infrastructure project of the infrastructure product. I remember

from my days trying to get road schemes through, you waded through

protesters and the M25 everyone says it should be much bigger. Well,

I only have to say as the minister was partially doing it, you did get

protest after protest. I am sure there will be an attempt at a

judicial review, but that is not going to derail the thing

necessarily. What you need is governments and politicians

remaining faithful and remain consistent to the project. Well,

that is one for us to follow in the coming months and years ahead. That

is just about it from us. So, my thanks to Norman Fowler and Gisela

Stuart. As if to scotch the old adage that politics is showbiz but

ugly people, I will be joined by Tristram Hunt next week and Margot