29/04/2012 Sunday Politics West Midlands

In the Midlands: Just four days to go until the referendum on a

lectern Meyers. Birmingham and Coventry decided they want one. So

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1671 seconds

how does the business case really Hello again from the Midlands. I'm

Patrick Burns, and in this, our final programme before polling day

on Thursday, we'll be hearing from all three main parties beginning

with Adrian Bailey MP for Labour and Lorely Burt MP for the Liberal

Democrats. Adrian, the sound in the air at the

moment is the counting of Labour Party chickens, isn't it? You are

confident. In some cases you are saying you are mathematically sure

of taking over control of councils. We are not over-confident. The mood

is good on the ground. Morale is high. The events of the last month

have convinced the electorate that the government and Westminster's

policies are failing, and when you apply that to the poor performance

of Tory and Lib Dem councils in local levels, that makes for a good

background for Stott but it is not about a great surge of sentiment to

The Tories can't repeat their performance of four years ago. So

you're going to benefit from the time-lapse effect.

Not at all. On the doorstep, I have met a number of people who have

told me that for a variety of reasons, things like child benefit,

they are going to vote Labour. Having voted Conservative on the

basis of promises made in the last election, then agree this winter

Labour. Oh, dear. The Lib Dems are at 11%

in the polls. They are fighting to cling on in Cheltenham, the one

council you have control of. It looks as though your days are going.

We will see. A lot of people take national issues and vote locally on

national issues. Why would implore the electorate to look at the work

of their hard-working local Lib Dem councillors and activists. We are

the only party that keeps in touch all year round and look after

people all year round. How would you describe the mood in

your party? We were very buoyed up. Adrian is

talking about the Budget. In fact, this Budget, Lib Dem policies, we

have taken one million people out of tax altogether. 23 million

people have had a tax cut. Coming up a little later, business

leaders digest their options in Birmingham and Coventry with the

referendum on elected mayors just four days away.

Our top story this week is 'social cleansing'. That's how a housing

association in Stoke dismissed a direct request from a London local

authority for them to take up to 500 families off its hands. Newham

Council insists it can't afford to put them up because rents are

soaring. Ministers say the benefits cap should curb rent increases and

bring the welfare budget under control. Kevin Reide reports.

Stoke-on-Trent, birthplace of Josiah Wedgwood, Stanley Matthews

and Robbie Williams. Newham in East London - 160 miles away and home to

the London 2012 Olympics. But now a Potteries housing association has

been asked to accept London families because of rising rents in

the capital, a request on which they swiftly slammed the door.

Our economy has not taken off. The private sector is weak. We have got

rising unemployment. There are not enough jobs for people in Stoke.

Our economy hasn't taken off. The row has come to a head just

days before polling in the local elections. The government's cap

limits housing benefit to a maximum of �400 a week. But Labour says the

policy is making the housing crisis even worse.

What's wrong is that we penalise families, uprooting them. The idea

that you take a mum, a dad and some kids, and you take them from Newham

to Stoke, away from their schools their families, their friends,

their jobs, in this day and age that cannot be right.

Why would you be asking a place 160 miles away when there are houses

that you can move them to? These housing benefit changes are

absolutely vital, and when Labour complain about them I remind them

that they let the housing bill nearly double under their time.

3,000 people are already on the housing waiting list in Stoke-on-

Trent, leaving the city's Labour council to say its concern was for

local families. And now we hear another London

local authority, Waltham Forest, has been buying up homes in Walsall.

So they wouldn't need anyone's permission to offload their surplus

families up the M6. We're also joined here today by

James Morris, the Conservative MP for Halesowen and Rowley Regis. How

do you react to the fact that your government poll by policies are

turning your area into an overspill for London as?

I don't accept that. The thing we are pursuing is to get the housing

benefit bill under control. If not, we are going to spend �25 billion

on benefit next year. The thing with London is a political stunt.

They don't need to be doing it. They say it is the effects of the

cap. That is nonsense. This is the political stunt. They don't have to

house people outside London. They have properties within the gambit

of Newham where they could put people. We have capped housing

benefit to �25,000. Most people would agree that it is not

justified. Do you do associate yourself from a

Labour colleagues in Newham on this political stunt, as it is

described? Let's be clear. This is not just

Labour. The Tories are also looking at the same policy. It is a policy

that we said would happen during the debate on these measures. These

measures were introduced to as we were told a way of driving down

rents in London. It has not worked. Just a minute. We have a letter

from Eric Pickles, the local government minister, to David

Cameron, saying they were not. Do they support a benefits cap at

We have said there should be a benefits cap. However, it has to be

related to local circumstances and in areas where there is a higher

rent, the level of the housing benefit should be determined by an

independent, impartial body. Government has set this. They got

it wrong. It has resulted in this awful moving of people from their

own local area with enormous consequences.

You are a coalition partner. Do you or surf -- do you also have

experience in the area? What is your experience?

Authorities have a legal responsibility to house people.

They have to take things into account. That includes local area

ties. I have to agree with James. This is all coming out just before

the local elections. I don't think there's too much coincidence...

The fundamental point is that not enough homes are being provided.

We have got some specific policies. We have got a new affordable rent

regime which is going to construct 150,000 social houses. We have got

a problem with social housing. We are addressing that problem. Let me

finish. We are building more houses than under Labour.

It has been a problem for a long time. But this government said they

were going to address it. What has happened is that in the last six

months in London there has been just 59 new social housing units.

What is the answer? We have got to build more social

housing. We have got to have affordable housing, whether in

London or the Black Country. It makes no difference. People need

homes, decent homes. We have got a plan to build them.

I'm sure this discussion will continue over the months and years

ahead. In just four days' time, voters in

Birmingham and Coventry will be asked if they want their cities to

be run by an elected mayor like a Boris or a Ken in London. With the

economy back in recession, our correspondent Peter Plisner has

been asking business leaders what they would want from a mayor. Or

would they stick with the existing council leader system?

When business leaders gather together, discussion is inevitably

drawn to the latest issues facing the world of commerce and industry.

In the past the recession or changes in government have been hot

topics. But this year much of what's being

discussed at functions like this is what an elected mayor in either

Birmingham or Coventry will do to help business in areas they serve.

The current system is not working as well as it needs to be. It is a

great opportunity, and one which we should grab with both hands.

It is a great idea. It gives focus to the city, to rally us as a

prominent city in Europe, actually, not just the UK.

There's a sense that we could unlock things if we could get

someone he can talk directly to Whitehall.

Senior Tories like Michael Heseltine appear to be leading the

Yes campaign in places where elected mayors could become reality.

Closer to home, so too is the Birmingham Chamber of Commerce,

here canvassing support ahead of Thursday's referendum.

The mayor will be able to bring forward transport investment.

Simple as that. They can get hold of budgets at the moment that are

too hard to get. I think we will see a change in the delivery of

transport. I also think we will see a change to the way the

universities and colleges work. If a mayor is elected in either

Birmingham or Coventry, whoever they are, according to experts,

they're most likely to be judged on their track record on jobs and

growth. And supporting the private sector

will be crucial for any new mayor. Between them, Birmingham and

Coventry have almost 40,000 businesses which collectively

employ around 390,000 people. Some of them work at this metal plating

firm in Birmingham's Jewelry Quarter. Here management are

broadly supportive of a mayor but that doesn't stop them having

concerns. There does not seem to be a clear

remit for the job. That is a problem because the electorate do

not know what they are voting for. They are not clear on what the

costs are going to be. We don't want an elected mayor at any cost.

In London most seem to agree that charismatic figureheads like the

current mayor, Boris Johnson, have been good for business. But with

the UK economy now back in recession, there are no guarantees

that the same will happen here. And James Morris is still with us

because in his previous incarnation before entering Parliament he was

the chief executive of the Localis think tank, which influenced the

Government's agenda on localism. You are foisting this referendum on

Coventry and Birmingham. There's no great clamour for it.

We are not foisting it. The people have got a choice on Thursday as to

whether they want an elected mayor. I happen to think it would be a

good idea. The evidence from evident -- London is that if you

have a very elected leader, they are more likely to drive the city

forward, get business investment in. I think that would be good for the

region. Let's think about what was said in

the report, about the confusion about what the powers and remit are.

He is concern about the cost. The I think it is important that the

directly-elected mayor has powers over transport and influence over

policing, like in London. They are important powers. Cities

around the world have shown that if you have directly elected

accountability, you get better results.

It is a devolution from Westminster. You have got to welcome this,

haven't you? I am not in favour. The reason is

that you may end up with a charismatic person, but the only

people who will be able to fight if we D have a meal election will be

those who have political backing. - - if we have an election for a

mayor. We hear a lot of names of

independent people. There's been a record in the past of independence

featuring. I honestly think that it is going to be either a Labour

mayor... It is going to be a Labour mayor. Says the Lib Dem!

Who has got the money to get their person there?

I have been told that you are slightly cynical about this idea in

the past. What it amounts to it but I believe

that good government is about leadership, not structure. In

Greater Manchester you have a strong Labour leadership with a

strong chief executive that has gone well. In Stoke, you had an

elected mayor, and the electorate decided they did not want it any

more. But they had a strange system. This

is more conventional. What we have seen in London with

Ken and Boris, whatever you think about them, they have been

independent. They are somewhat removed from their parties. It does

encourage more independence, so that people stand-up of the city.

Let me raise a comment from the internet. Michael Winston says this

must be the first potential election where neither the voters

not candidates know what the remit of a mayor would be. This would

take place in a horse trading session in November. What arrogant

disregard for the democratic process.

I think it is clear that the directly elected mayor will need to

have power over economic development, transport and policing.

Even though that is not an exact fit for the region?

But there does need to be a relation between the mayor and the

boroughs of the Black Country, for example.

Will they work together? Can I say, the fact that the

business community in Birmingham feel that they need to have a

directly elected mayor when they have had a Tory and Lib Dem

coalition in Birmingham and in government in Westminster is really

an indictment. Oh, it is our fault! That his great!

If they have got the quality of leadership, they would not need an

elected mayor. I would not take away the right of local people in

Birmingham to actually decide on what sort of structure they think

would deliver on the things they It is hard to get any recognition

among people on the streets. Let people they let people who have

got that leadership, then. We have got a mayor of Birmingham, a mayor

of Solihull. They are figureheads for the area. That, to me, is

people who are elected on the ground for a start thank you very

much. -- on the ground.

Thank you very much. Now our regular round-up of the

political week in the Midlands in 60 seconds. Here's BBC WM's

Drivetime presenter, Paul Franks. The week began with a bang as

fireworks lit up Birmingham's night sky. Passengers to the city's

airport can now see the Olympic rings as their plane comes in to

land. Help for heroes' families - the

first sod's been cut at an 18-bed Fisher House for families of

soldiers being treated at Birmingham's main hospital. It's

inspired by an American idea. We have stood shoulder to shoulder

in two world wars. There's a bond. Nuneaton's George Eliot hospital

still has the highest death rates in the country. That's according to

new government figures. Only two Midlands hospitals are doing better

than average. Elsewhere in the NHS, better news for Stafford hospital.

It's A&E department will reopen in June, subject to conditions.

And the Chief Constable of Gloucestershire's resigning in

protest at the introduction of elected police commissioners. Tony

Melville's only been in post two years but says he has grave

Quite a shock from the Chief Constable. Isn't there a concern

that this Commissioner role could politicise the police service?

Indeed. That is why I personally would not back it. James was saying

the elected mayor would be responsible for the police. We

would have an elected mayor, a police commissioner, and a port

chief constable who has got to do all the work.

The idea is to connect the police to the public.

Crime was falling under Labour. This is just window-dressing.

still falling! At a time when budget cuts of

forcing a authorities to make cuts in farm and services throughout the

country, this is needless money for commissioners. -- cuts in front

This will take away resources to fight crime.

Better news from Stafford hospital on that overnight thing. What is

your review on that? It is to be welcomed. People who

work in the health service day-in day-out, it has been terrible for

them for a start I would like to continue but this is where I have

to leak it. My thanks to Adrian Bailey and

Lorely Burt. We'll have the latest from our key Midlands election and

referendum battlegrounds during Vote 2012 from 11:35pm on Thursday