24/06/2012 Sunday Politics West Midlands

In the Midlands: What will you be doing on 15th November? Ed Miliband

said in Birmingham he would rather you were not electing police

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1996 seconds

Hello from the Midlands. I'm Patrick Burns.

Now, our guests today have both helped to swell the ranks of

lawyers in Parliament. One's a conveyancer-turned-council-leader-

turned-MP. The other's a barrister who is now our region's first woman

muslim MP. Marcus Jones is the Conservative MP for Nuneaton in

Warwickshire. And Shabana Mahmood is the Labour MP for Birmingham

Ladywood, and a shadow business minister. Now, hands up, who wants

to pay more in police taxation? Your Prime Minister wants to turn

it tax-evasion into a moral issue. The is obviously an issue that tax

avoidance is legal but certain schemes are immoral and I think the

Prime Minister is quite right on that in terms of the way in which

people try to avoid their tax. It is therefore important a government

looks to close off these loopholes. Ardour immoral? Your party leader

says politicians shouldn't moralise. But when you think about phone

hacking, there was a great deal of moralising. The key issue is that

if there are legal ways people can avoid tax, it is the job of the

legislators that them to do something about that. It is quite

right there we debate about this in Parliament, but the responsibility

rests on as as legislators and his right they Ed Miliband to raise

that. A you comfortable with the way David Cameron has personalise

this with a direct attack on Jimmy Carr, one of the most popular

entertainers in Britain? Was we need to do now is move on from the

debate around morality or immorality and basically look to

close tax loopholes through legislation. We also as a

conservative group Bonita it look at how the taxation regime is one

that makes sure people are more things and devised to pay.

Obviously, the government think they on to a populist issue here,

do you think people are almost resentful in austere times that

people have made a success of their lives? In terms of the government

approach, instead of going after one person, let's focus on the law

and what we can do to clamp down on that. We need to send a clear

message to the public what our expectations are when it comes to

tax and make sure that everybody abides by the law. I don't think

it's helpful to focus on one person. Coming up a little later, who

should run our police forces? Stand-by to elect your new police

and crime commissioner. A foretaste of this November's

electoral menu, as two would-be police bosses get their knives out,

and prepare to do battle with each other...and our reporter.

Our top story this week. Unemployment in the West Midlands

is continuing to fall steadily. We've just witnessed the fourth

month running in which the number of people out of work here has gone

down. And private companies in our part of the country are now

creating 20 times more jobs than the number being lost in the public

sector. Our business correspondent Baking up a booming business - at

this Walsall cake maker, order books are rising fast and much of

what they make is now being exported. A we are now exporting

right across Europe to 10 different markets. We're build a brand-new

factory we're in right now which is dedicated to exports, which is

going to create over 70 new jobs. And more jobs at small firms like

this are helping bring down region's unemployment rate. The

latest figures show that it's come down to 223,000. 8.4% of the

population are out of work. government is not getting people

back to work fast enough, the long- term unemployment shows the Work

Programme which was billed as the greatest back-to-work programme in

human history is now failing badly. Last week's better than expected

unemployment figures were no doubt boosted by the fact that in the

last 12 months, 4,000 public sector jobs had been lost, while at the

same time more than 80,000 private sector jobs have been created. A

big chunk of them here at Jaguar and Rover. Not surprising, then,

that government ministers are eager to be associated with such a

successful company. The Business Secretary Vince Cable was at the

JLR's Warwickshire headquarters launching a new training scheme.

The West Midlands is a big hope for the rest of the country because you

have private sector growth, very successful manufacturing. With

unemployment heading in the right direction, the icing of the cake

will come if future econonic data proves be just as encouraging.

Shabana Mahmood, Odia. It's good news! Bad news for Labour, of

course. Anything that is a better picture for unemployment figures in

our region is a good thing and I welcome that. Any improvement in

those figures is not bad news far as, it is good news. But I am

worried that we have underlying problems and issues that are masked

by those figures, in particular the fact that long-term unemployment is

the highest it has been since 1995, and the fact that you couldn't

unemployment -- youth unemployment is more than one million. I would

like to see the government tackle at as if it is an emergency.

those two points, youth unemployment and the fact that one

in three of everyone out of work has been out of work for at least a

year, what you say? They are certainly important points, and of

course there is a problem with youth unemployment. Youth

unemployment has been on the rise since 2004, and the government are

now starting to catch -- to tackle up with a number of apprenticeships

coming through, with the youth contract and the Work Programme

coming through, and we are actually getting many of those people who

have been long-term unemployed back to work and the figures are

starting to reduce. And there is a remarkable turnaround on the part

of private employers creating jobs at a tremendous rate. This holy

grail of the private sector closing the gap. Absolutely, and any

improvements are obviously to be welcomed, especially while we have

public sector job losses. But my worry is that a lot of the

government's policies are not going far enough. The contract is not

going far enough, we are still seeing far too many young

unemployed in our city and in our region. And Marcus Jones, still a

very long wait to go with 200,000 out of work in our patch alone.

it is fantastic work but there is more to climb. We have the eurozone

crisis, so there is still a lot to Our main talking point this week

brought the Labour leader Ed Miliband to Birmingham yet again,

this time beginning his run-up to November's elections for police and

crime commissioners. They will be the people who will control the

purse strings of our police forces, and hold the chief constables to

account. The opposition leader was here to unveil his party's

candidates, although he'd rather the elections weren't being held at

all. And certainly not in November. But he told us they did at least

give us an opportunity to discuss the future of policing. It's an

opportunity for people to register their views on the cuts on policing,

but also Labour brings a slightly different approach to crime. We

recognise the importance of everybody working together right

across the board. So who wants to be a police commissioner? BBC

Coventry and Warwickshire's political reporter Sian Grzeszczyk

invited two "interested parties" to debate the issue in one of

Coventry's most historic buildings. His starter of dispensing justice

to then criminals, but nowadays when people are called to the bar,

it is more likely to be about a pint. It has been reopened as a

restaurant and bar, retaining many of its original features. The crest

still rests above where the judge sat. The last public execution was

just outside the door in 1849. Take a look at this - these are the

original steps that the guilty were sent down. So in the week Labour

launched its campaign for policing crime commission has, where better

to come and discuss the issues with a couple of candidates? Joe

Tildesley, a former bobby with 30 years' experience, wants to be the

conservative candidate to run the West Midland's force. And here's a

familiar face - James Plaskitt, was the Labour MP for Warwick and

Leamington for 13 years, he's already his party's candidate to be

commissioner for Warwickshire. And, as I was about to find out, there

was plenty on the menu to discuss. There has been a lot of talk about

working with other forces, with Surrey, what are your thoughts on

that? Collaboration can achieve a lot but I would like to know what

you plan to do about forced privatisation, because the West

Midlands and sorry, that you have mentioned... James, James. It will

be the police and crime commission in the West Midlands will make the

final decision. I am already on record in saying that is not to we

should form relationships with. you don't want to privatise? I want

to form relationships with West Messier, Warwickshire and

Staffordshire. Lots of talk of red tape for the police, how would you

reduce bureaucracy? Would I would like to do is bring police

commissioners together once we are all in post and ourselves put a

submission to the Home Office, because they are responsible for a

lot of it, to say, look, he is a way of having less red tape.

have a mandate. The at is what I'm saying. Let us say to government,

we have been elected... It's a you agree with me? Were you going to

make the decision, we are not going to do this paperwork. We need to

make change happen. My point is, if a whole group of commissioners are

making the same argument and it will have the mandate, that is more

effective than one commission on their own. You have the power to

hire and fire the Chief Constable, but what happens if that

relationship breaks down? Are in the chief constable and city

commissioner coming in inviting resources the manpower, we would

welcome mat. Fundamentally, this is the most important change to

policing there has been since 1829, since it all started. So, much to

discuss, and with elections being served up in November, how many

voters will candidates be able to bring with them to the table?

Will have to wait and see. And we're also joined here today by Dr

Bill Dixon. He's the Head of Criminology at Keele University. In

one of his earlier incarnations he completed a PhD in police

accountability. Yes, they see it as a key relationship between the

police and crime commission and the chief constable. A you convinced?

No entirely, I think it is a big request for a single individual to

play that role holding a police force to account. I think some of

the things we saw in the package pick up some of the problems that

may arise. What about a local policing agenda conflicting the

party policy? Bigger as we are inevitably sing a politicisation of

the police service as a result, on we? I have always believed that

policing is inherently political, you cannot escape from politics.

The root of the word is very similar. Whether it should be party

political is another matter entirely. Who will police the

commissioner? Well, there are two ways in which commission has will

be held to account. One, obviously by the ballot box and the electric

every four years. And secondly by the police and panels. Which is a

bit like a police authority, isn't it? Yes, if you like. So, there we

are. There is inevitably a politicisation which some police

officers feel strongly against. Had you respond to that? I don't think

it will work like that. There will be a clear demarcation between the

strategic priorities of the police and crime commission has and the

operational side, which the chief constable will still have the last

say over. In relation to that, I'm aware that the protocol that has

been put in place by the Home Secretary in association with the

Association of Chief Police Officers makes sure the lines

between the two are not blurred. because of course your parties will

be fighting for these jobs, so it is bound to become a political,

isn't it, Shabana Mahmood? That is one of my biggest worry, that is

why I voted against the bill. it as inevitable? Well, I think

there was the important point of party politicisation, and that is

what I worry about when I talk about politicisation of the police.

That is something that is quite dangerous and ought to be avoided,

but we have to make the best of a bad job and I would like to see

Labour police and crime commission has been campaigned against police

cuts the we're seeing across the country. One to about privatisation,

Marcus? That is one of the things they came up in the film there in

the context of Collabra Nations which is generally some in the

government approves of? -- collaborations. We need to look at

how policing is delivered, but particularly backroom functions of

things that are being looked at in terms of privatisation and

collaboration between different forces. Of course, it will be the

police and crime commission a who have the final say on this type of

things. In relation to that, the police and crime commission will be

directly accountable, and on that basis will have a close link with

the communities they serve, so I am sure they will listen to that

community. I should just mention that the names of more potential

commissioners and candidates, you will find some of them who have so

far declared interest on my latest post online. Let's just consider a

couple of comments. Allen says "these commissioners are yet

another example of expensive bureaucracy which is of no interest

to the public or anyone else except those who apply". Another writer

says "more jobs for the boys, there is no prospect of these jobs lesson

in crime". What do we think? It is all about making that service more

accountable. Labour tried this twice and back down in the face of

vested interests so on not sure it is a thing that Labour should and

support. It's quite right to the get accountability of the police.

We obviously David N approach much more along the police authority

lines rather than one individual. - - we obviously gave it an approach.

But having elections in November, when there is nothing else going on,

is probably not the best way to go out with a bang and try to get

people excited and enthused about this topic. They should have made

it more of a priority. I have been we have to be careful about putting

too much of a burden on the police. All the research evidence suggests

that the impact that the police alone can have on crime is actually

fairly minimal. There are much wider forces at play here in

determining rates of crime. Policing is only ever going to have

a fairly marginal effect. Final quick word you markers. Having an

election like this in November is bound to produce low turnout.

think as we get close to the elections, people will become

enthused about the elections. This week, I believe Mencap, who were

very enthused about this process, they believe they could influence a

who the commissioner will be. you.

Now, our regular round-up of the political week in the Midlands in

60 seconds, with BBC WM's breakfast presenter Pete Morgan.

In spite of industrial action over pension changes, most Midlands

doctors went to work as normal on Thursday. Many hospital

appointments were cancelled. But only a quarter of GPs surgeries

were affected. Welcome to Brierley Hill. As

landmarks go, its unmissable. A court's now told the waste firm

responsible to cut the size of its dump. We want to see it go down to

two metres, but we're taking it one step of the time.

Coventry City council's introduced a 20 miles per hour speed limit

within the city centre. It's the region's first zone of its kind.

A prominent British National Party member has appeared in court on a

racism charge. Michael Coleman, former group leader on Stoke-on-

Trent City Council, will go on trial in the autumn.

And "full steam ahead," said the boss of the high speed rail project

to MPs this week. There have been reports the London to Birmingham

line may be driven into the sidings. But the Prime Minister is said to

So, surprise surprise, it transpires. But Marcus this will do

nothing to quell the idea that the HST project could be quietly

shelved. My that is pure speculation. That's what they all

say! This project is going ahead and the Transport Secretary has

come up in the past few days and confirm that. As the MP in whose

constituency the Birmingham terminus would be, are you anxious

that your side of this argument could be being lost? Are I am. It

is the speculation that is doing the damage. If the Prime Minister

and the Transport Secretary really believed in this project, they

should bring forward legislation that should legislate for the whole

of the line, not just Birmingham to London. They should show real

commitment so we can have confidence it will go ahead. That

is what people are crying out for. There is a commitment, we have just

been through the consultation. There is an environmental aspect to

this and the project is being done on that at the moment. Legislation

will be coming forward next year. All right, we are watching. That is

where we have to leave things today. Thanks to Marcus Jones and Shabana

Mahmood. Next week, we'll be joined by the Conservative MP for Redditch,