05/05/2013 Sunday Politics West Midlands

Greens steal the thunder of the bigger parties in our council

elections. But who really makes the political

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2230 seconds

weather when county councils go out We all know two wrongs don't make a

right but what do to rights make? Today's guests, that is what. On the

right, Mr Wright. On the left, Mr Wright. Jeremy Wright is the

Conservative MP for Kenilworth and Southam. He is also a minister at

the Justice Department. David Wright on the left is the Labour MP for

Telford in Shropshire and he was a member of the whips team under

Gordon Brown's government. You are not related. We are not. We are not

trying to set up a separate little party, you will be pleased to hear.

Just as well. These results were not great. In Warwickshire, your party

lost overall control. What went through your mind as you saw the

declarations taking shape? They were not great results. I felt sorry for

the councillors who had worked very hard and have lost their seats for

reasons tangentially connected to the job they were doing. And sorry

for the candidates who did not succeed. They were not good results.

We need to keep them in perspective and understand it is a big vote for

UKIP and Rob looms for all three major parties reflecting, I think

frustration on the part of the electorate. I think perhaps we have

not done a good enough job of explaining to the electorate the

progress we have made. You are the only Labour MP in Shropshire, a

county still firmly under the control of the Conservatives.

look at the elections this week, they were in predominantly sorry --

solid Tory boroughs. I think Staffs shows good examples of the progress

Labour is making. I think in general terms, it was steady progress in

council areas that have been historically controlled by the

Conservatives. Two years ago, they said we were not an effect of

opposition. We are putting the arguments. I accept that people are

a bit turned off by all of us at the moment and it creates a protest.

issue that has played very strongly in Warwickshire and Staffordshire is

high-speed rail. As a Warwickshire MP and a member of the government,

that is the sort of issue where people feel the top sub parties --

the top parties are out of touch. have no issue of high-speed rail but

I think they have picked the wrong route. What is interesting about

UKIP is that they went into the 2010 general election being in favour of

high-speed rail. They wanted to see three high-speed rail lines. They

have seen an opportunity and they have taken advantage by coming out

against HS2. We will have to understand more on their policy

position as time goes by. Our part of the country so often the heart of

written's electoral battlefield is usually a broadly 2-party affair.

This time UKIP and the Green Party scored major successes which they

see as game changers. Labour and the Tories were relative underachievers,

summed up by the money shot of the past few days, the disappointment

etched on the face of the Conservative MP Aidan Burley. For

hardy souls braising the Thursday night counts, this was about as good

as it got for Labour. Raising hopes they might was first almost of the

tide that had swept them from power. Great night for us. I think

we have a chance now of forming a very solid shadow cabinet and

hopefully even more and perhaps even holding the balance. But the Tories

were cheering when the rest of the results salvaged their majority,

albeit much reduced. Gloucestershire colleagues were not so lucky, losing

control in the case of so near yet so far. We were short of an overall

majority by 200 votes. I think that reflects lost to share as a whole.

It is a very marginal county and there are a number of marginal

parliamentary seats -- I think it reflects Gloucestershire as a whole.

The Conservatives lost control of Warwickshire too. This is a

reflection of our strength across the West Midlands. We have been

growing very fast. People are going for our policies, ensuring we make

the minimum wage a minimum wage and get rid of zero hours contracts and

build a strong local economy. was Showtime for UKIP. While the

Tories retained Worcestershire, it was the new UKIP councillors who

grabbed the headlines. Today is a momentous day in political history.

A party has gone from nowhere, from nothing, to polling nationally at

30%. The Tories retained Shropshire. The Lib Dems gained seats here and

in Gloucestershire. Despite being obliterated in Staffordshire, the

Lib Dems remain the third party of local government with four times as

many councillors as Nigel Farage's 40. Politics is so often about

momentum and it is UKIP and the Green Party who have it.

As I said, we will be talking about UKIP in a few minutes. Let us begin

by thinking about the impact on what we have always thought of as the

main free parties. I am also joint buying Mick Temple, a professor at

Staffordshire University. Were there any surprises in this outcome in the

Midlands? The big surprise was how badly Labour did in the areas they

were expected to win. The Green Party made steady progress. UKIP did

well but they did not gain many seats but 25% overall in the West

Midlands is pretty impressive. lesson is that if the mood is none

of the above it is tough on parties that are one of the above. Looking

at the Conservatives, there is doom and gloom. In fact, it is not as bad

as you might think. In 2009, they did really well in the elections. We

are halfway through a parliament in which as the senior party of a

governing coalition they really are very unpopular on a number of

issues. The economy is still to recover. Yet they retain control of

three councils and did pretty well in the two that they lost overall

control of. I am puzzled about the Liberal Democrats. I was watching

the results in Staffordshire where there were annihilated. In

Shropshire and Gloucestershire, they picked up seats. What is going on?

As always, the Lib Dems have some places where they are strong locally

and that is the key to their future. It is one of the things that

UKIP lack. At times that says the Lib Dems from the sort of nightmare

scenario we have seen nationwide. Labour are actually the biggest

losers of the lot because you did pile up extra support in the

all-important marginal places like Cannock, Tamworth, Staffordshire.

But nowhere near enough. This should be a golden scenario for any

opposition party with the economy as it is and people in the Midlands

hurting as they are. I do not think that is the case. A lot of the

counties were very rock solid blue counties. It is difficult to make

regress. Staffordshire, looking at the parliamentary seats, we

performed very well, Cannock Chase is an example. Stafford, we have a

great candidate there. Burton, Tamworth, these seats are turning to

Labour. Those are the seats we have to win in order to deliver a victory

at the general election. You have got to break down the county results

and look at some of the key target marginals. Looking at those, we are

doing extremely well, predominantly in the larger towns. The thing that

struck me in Staffordshire is how low the morale is among your

activists on the ground. A lot of them feel a certain amount of

sympathy privately with the arguments that UKIP are putting and

I thought, is the atmosphere for the Tories even mutinous among the very

people who you need to deliver an election campaign next year in the

general election the year after that? There is a frustration and it

mirrors the frustration of the electorate. We are frustrated that

we are not doing as good a job as we should be about doing the message --

getting the message across. There is no reason for us to panic. But we

should recognise we have got to do a better job at getting the messages

across. I do not think a lot of the people who voted UKIP last week will

have fully realise that we have succeeded in getting immigration

down by a third. They will not have fully realise that we are getting

the deficit down and offering and in out referendum in the next

parliament if there is a Conservative government. We must

bear our share of responsible at it for the failure to get the message

across but it is a failure of communication. Or is it the

message? Things like the environment, gay marriage, these

issues that work well in Notting Hill and Chipping Norton, it does

not play well in Cannock, Stafford and Nuneaton? Della macro key is the

economy. People would say it is absolutely crucial. It is

disappointing that the economy is not turning round as fast as we

would like it to. There are a number of reasons. One of our main markets,

the Eurozone, is not recovering either. The fundamentals are right

and we must stick to our guns because the truth is you cannot

solve a problem caused by debt, �100 million paid on debt interest every

day, buy more debt. We need to stick to the plan.

This is where we press the pause button. To be continued. We used to

call it the UKIP factor. Now it is UKIP fact. They succeeded in

translating their poll ratings into votes. Up to 35% in some parts

Staffordshire on the route of the proposed high-speed railway line.

The party also has fewer councillors in Staffordshire than before. And

none at all in Shropshire and Warwickshire.

UKIP, 1652. UKIP, 1792. Paul White, UKIP, 1402. Got the message? Be

rising star in the Midlands elections consistently polled a

quarter of the votes. It makes uncomfortable weekend reading for

Conservative MPs so how do you solve a problem like UKIP? A referendum on

Europe in the next 12 months rather than after the next general election

is this MP's answer. UKIP have done incredibly well in these local

elections. One of the things that have to be said is that of course if

they did equally well in the general election then we would lose shed

loads of marginal seats. That means we would not be able to win the

election which would mean that on the basis of David Cameron's present

promise about having a referendum in 2017 we would not get the referendum

because we would not be in power and his promise would collapse. Was it a

mistake for David Cameron to call UKIP members fruitcakes? I certainly

do not think they are fruitcakes. I do not like that expression. I do

not like the expression sounds which Kenneth Clarke used. This is quite

unacceptable. Taking to the airwaves, this UKIP candidate for

the next general election is getting the message out, spreading the good

news on a community radio station set up in a church. But there is

little sign of peace and goodwill. The remarks of the MP offered little

harmony, more discord. Bill Cash has been saying things like that for

years. His time has gone. People are trusting UKIP now to be the people

to force the hand of the establishment. We have the force

behind us now of the people. cannot deny that Labour gained seats

because people voting for use split it the Tory vote. We got the votes

of everyone. We always do. The big test for UKIP now, can the party

maintain momentum in the Midlands? Of course, David, we are

concentrating as so often we do on the trials and tribulations between

UKIP and the Conservatives, but as we were hearing, they are a threat

to your party as well. Looking to the north of your county, they are

the main rivals to Labour there. Ella macro we have got to take them

seriously. Is it not of report that you are not getting it across, the

message? Looking at the election on Thursday, one of the main parties

people would go to to protest is now part of the coalition. That makes it

very difficult for the Lib Dems. People were looking for an

alternative way to send a message to Rex Minster -- Westminster and to

make the point about most of us are not listening to them and

communicating properly. We have got to really listen to that and

understand that. It strikes me that Nigel Farage manages to communicate.

Policies tend to fall apart under deepest scrutiny but he communicates

them very well. They will come under more heat now from all of the main

parties as we start to expose what the policy platform is. I think you

will find it is pretty thin. But I do think they can be a threat. They

probably draw more disaffected conservative voters but they also

take Labour voters as well and I do not underestimate them. I am sure

there are a lot of Conservative MPs in the Midlands who would echo what

will Cash was saying this morning full stop UKIP is a party, be they

fruitcakes or clowns, you may find yourself having to talk to them.

Gloucs, possibly headed by the Conservatives, you may need to talk

to UKIP macro there as elsewhere. do not think it is a good idea for

politicians to approach their colleagues in a hostile way. We

should let what the electorate voted for. Let me pick up on one thing. If

it is true UKIP take more from the Conservatives, and it is clearly

true that the Lib Dems are now a party of government and therefore

you cannot vote for them if you do not like what the government is

doing, Labour should be doing better, not worse. I think the

problem with an early referendum on EU membership seems to me to be

twofold. David and I have both served in the government whips

office. We know you cannot get things through Parliament unless a

majority of MPs support them. The Labour Party do not support an in

out referendum. The Liberals certainly do not. The second reason

it is the wrong thing to do now it seems to me and that a knee-jerk

response would be the wrong one is that Europe is in a huge state of

flux. We have got to wait and see what kind of Europe it is we are

being asked to consider membership of. We will offer a referendum in

the next parliament if we win the election. Mitt, help us make sense

of this. We are talking about local elections. And yet... I do not know

to what extent this is about UKIP and Europe or is it about more bread

and butter issues that they seem to have a general position on? Most

people vote on national issues. UKIP have tapped national sentiment. But

the politicians from the mainstream parties are misinterpreting this.

There is a lot of data about who supports UKIP. They are not obsessed

as UKIP members are with Europe. They are concerned about

immigration, but they are also concerned about the economy. When

Labour were in power, the majority of UKIP voters were protesting

against former Labour voters. Now half of them are former conservative

voters. On the referendum point, I think what we need is the Prime

Minister to clearly indicate what exact powers he would want to bring

back in terms of if there is going to be a referendum will stop I think

we need more clarity from the Prime Minister about what he is

renegotiating. One thought that does occur. Ed Miliband says Britain is

moving to the left. Surely one of the lessons of the past few days is

that the right of centre vote, if you put the Conservatives and UKIP

together, that is the vote that is growing. I hope this is where we are

in the Labour Party, the centre. I want to draw support from moderate

Labour voters, moderate support in the centre. I think that is where we

should be. They are not moving to Labour and seeing a potential Prime

Minister in Ed Miliband. Final word. Is this a permanent change in

the battlefield? We talked about 80 electoral area. Who knows. One thing

is certain, UKIP will do very well in the European elections.

Conservatives have to be very careful not to keep chasing the

traditional UKIP voter because the country is moving to a more tolerant

society, it is not a good move. Thank you very much. A regular

round-up now of the political week in the Midlands. Here is pro-gun

macro's presenter Joanne Malin. -- here is Midlands Today presenter.

A new start for new Street. A multi-million pound revamp. The

station was put to the test by commuters for the first time. 600

people attended a public meeting to question the team sent in to run

Stafford and Cannock hospitals. The hospital trust is no longer

clinically or financially sustainable.

The Worcestershire -based boatbuilder Sealine has sunk into

administration. 300 jobs are at risk. 200 jobs are to go at

Herefordshire Council. It is part of proposals to save �9 million. It is

bad news for the 1500 strong workforce. We are saying we need to

reduce it by somewhere in the order of a quarter. We would need to begin

that now and we need to do that over the next two years. And 400 jobs

will go at the University Hospital in Stoke-on-Trent as bosses plug a

�31 million deficit. All of those job losses is no great

distinction between public and private sector. Jeremy, is this how

you are going about balancing the economy? It seems to be affecting

both sides together. There is re-balancing going on. There have

been a million more private-sector jobs since we started in government.

But the job losses are very difficult. The problem here is that

25% of all government spending is local government spending so if we

are going to address the very serious economic problems we have

got, a very large debt, we are going to have to do that with a

contribution from local government. One of Labour's answers to this busy

jobs guarantee. How can you answer suspicions about where exactly the

jobs will come from? Jobs for long-term unemployed, two years.

Young unemployed, one year. How can you create jobs out of thin air?

do not think you can divide the economy up into public and private.

There is a bleed across in terms of the number of jobs created in the

private sector through investment in public infrastructure projects. I

think the government has got its economics liturgy wrong. We need a

significant boost to get the economy moving. They are failing. He is

talking about more borrowing and that increases the problem.

thanks to Jeremy Wright and David Wright. Next week, the Queens

speech. What is in it for us here, I wonder? I will be joined next Sunday