19/05/2013 Sunday Politics West Midlands

What is the real value or cost of private education? Should schools

be forced to do more to help local communities if we want a one-nation

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2156 seconds

That morning. One of her guests has seen it all, done it all. He became

a Member of Parliament before Chris Kelly was born. He was the Labour

MP for Tunworth. Former television presenter, for his sins. He was

responsible for letting cameras into the House of Commons. Chris

Kelly helped to run the family drug business and went on to become the

founder of the all-party Parliamentary Group for a family

business. Welcome. Was it that family business back

ground that persuaded Chris Kelly to become one of 10 Midlands MPs

who signed an amendment to the Queen's Speech last week,

regretting the omission of a referendum about Europe? Labour

reckon history is repeating itself. It is little wonder that John

Major's former press secretary said there are some parallels with the

backing of John Major's Premiership. One of the differences is that was

when the Conservatives had been in power for 17 or 18 years. Now they

have only been in Coalition for two or three years. Is it deja-vu all

over again, as John Prescott once said?

Isn't the net effect to parade your differences in public and we know

the electorate does not vote for divided parties? I do not think we

are parading differences in public. We will see a younger servitor

backbencher bringing in a private member's bill. You will see on that

day, the members of parliament will be supporting James. We all want

the same thing. The Conservative Party trusts the British people. We

want a referendum to give the British people the choice. Bruce,

you are a Euro-sceptic. Doesn't it frustrate you that Labour is

increasingly being seen as the party being driven towards a

position of the anti referendum Party, when it suggests most people

want one? The last seven days has been Alice in Wonderland politics.

Mr Cameron did not bring in a bill himself. He wrote the Queen's

Speech, which was read out, and within a week he would not even

defend it. Now he is seeing a flagship policy being introduced by

an obscure backbencher. There has been speculation that some MPs may

seek an endorsement from UKIP going into the next general election. Can

you imagine a situation that you might encounter this? I was elected

as a Conservative and I want to be re-elected as that. It is a two-

horse race, and I do not really see that is being an option. People who

are naturally inclined to support UK -- UKIP are very welcome to do

so. It looks as though it is in a certain amount of disarray. This is

not a Conservative government, this is a Coalition government. I regret

the Referendum Bill was not in the Queen's Speech, and the reason it

was not there is that big Liberal Democrats would not allow it.

wasn't in the Queen's Speech because the Prime Minister did not

put it in the speech that was read out on his up -- his behalf. He

seems to be adopting the policy, do not blame me, I am only the Prime

Minister. Whether you agree with the course of action are not, it

should be in the Queen's Speech if you wanted there. Not on some

obscure Friday with all sorts of people taking part, which is what a

private member's bill on a major constitutional issue is likely to

turn into. Coming up, the call on elite

schools to run water help their neighbours. A former schools

minister says the high fees charged by private schools mean their

pupils only have a mixed with each other. That does none of us any

good whatsoever. -- they only have a mix with each other.

Our main talking point today concerns housing benefit. Among

from Staffordshire was among 10 people who took the government to

court last week over plans to reduce benefits to claimants whose

homes are deemed to have spare rooms by 14% for one extra room, or

25% for two or more. Just earlier, a suicide note blamed this.

only people to blame are the government, no one else. Stephanie

died on 4th May, having written a letter to her family saying that

she always loved them but she could not cope any more. She was worried

about playing rent -- paying rent in her three-bedroom house. Her

children had left home, so she had to move or find an extra �20 a week.

For people struggling to meet their housing costs, people half -- the

government has an emergency pot of money, and that has been increased

from �22 million to �155 million this year. In the West must -- the

West Midlands, the council gets a share of �11 million. This man has

been trying to challenge the new rules in court. His disabled son

stays with him for half of the B, and argues the Government did not

consider how the changes would consider those with a disability.

They seem to have rushed in and not looked at the outcomes of what can

happen. In my case, there is a possibility that my son, if I have

to move, he may never get to stay The Government estimates the

changes will save �500 million a year, opponents say the German cost

cannot be justified. We are also joined today by Simon, from the

National Housing Federation, the umbrella organisation representing

social landlords and housing associations. It cannot be right

that the general taxpayer is subsidising what our spare rooms?

We do not think the Government will achieve what it set out to achieve

from this measure. I think what the government said was that if it

introduced this measure that it would ease overcrowding and

pressure on social housing. I information tells us that the vast

majority of people will choose to stay in their homes but take the

additional financial hit. This targets some of the more vulnerable

members of society. But it is also a way of putting a pressure run

numbers because of the chronic overcrowding, so they need to move

people away from under occupied accommodation. In some areas there

is overcrowding and in some areas less so. The real answer to this is

to build more affordable homes because if we build more affordable

homes we would pay less housing benefit to people in those homes.

But that would take time, surely. But what the bedroom tax does with

and number of other welfare measures,... It makes it harder for

housing associations to subsidise and build a more affordable homes.

If people end up losing their homes as a result of the measure, they

could end up being rehoused in the more expensive private rented

sector. How do you respond to that, given that we hear people are

struggling generally, and decides to the press should. There are

discretionary payments made to help with this. But local authorities

are struggling. The housing list is almost 2 million people, who are

waiting for suitable housing. People living accommodation not

suitable for their families, while other people living in properties

which are larger than they require, so we need to make those homes

available for people on the housing list. And this subsidy means more

people can live in accommodation more suitable for their needs.

published a block on this subject, and the response was absolutely

ballistic. There were 50 replies within the first few minutes, and I

have to say that there was a lot of sympathy for individual cases like

Stephanie, but the balance of opinion was broad and siding with

the Government. It would be interesting to see what the

response would be having seen that clip, which was excellent, not

least because it demonstrated that, as we know, very large proportion

of the people affected are people with someone with a disability in

the family. Two-thirds are cases where people need the extra space.

Couples who will no longer be in the same bedroom because of

equipment associated with a disability. If you put out on your

block, or whatever it is people do these days, they would be

sympathetic to cases like that. we're still not delivering nearly

enough accommodation. That is why there is a planning law, and new

houses of this type will be built, so people can live out of bed and

breakfast accommodation into their own home for the first time. Simon,

we hear reports that people in Birmingham are banding together to

fight what they called their bedroom tax. How significant using

that might be? I cannot comment on individual campaigns, but there is

a real sense of unfairness, that this particular measure does target

60,000 people across the West Midlands, and 20% of them are in

work but low-income. 63% are families with a disabled person in

the family, so having a spare bedroom is beneficial for them for

additional equipment and adaptations in their home. There is

just the real sense that this particular policy measure is

targeting a group of people, when the government could be doing other

things to achieve this. The bottom line is that housing benefit alone

has doubled, it accounts for 23 billion of public spending, which

is only 10 billion less than the entire defence budget. Politicians

have to take tough choices. I would say that they have made the wrong

choice by targeting some of the most vulnerable people in the

country, on the lowest income, and in global terms of public

expenditure, are relatively small sum of money. This is all against

the backdrop of the terrible state of finances we inherited from the

Labour government. That is a clear issue for continued discussion over

time, but not today. Thank you to Simon for being with us today.

Are part of the country has 93 independent schools charging fees,

educating more than 36,500 pupils. That is fractionally down during

the stuff economic times, but it has not stopped the former Labour

schools minister Andrew Adonis for -- from going on the attack. He

says they are failing in their duty to help the less well-off. Our

political reporter went to the Malvern Hills to investigate.

Pay �30,000, and in return your child has promised one of the best

British Education's. It seems all that money pays off. 51% of top

doctors in this country went to a private school. The same could be

said for 54% of the FTSE 100 chief executives. And if you are thinking

about becoming a High Court judge, you should know that two thirds of

them went to a fee-paying school. All that despite the fact that in

this country only 7% of the population actually go to a private

school. Most fee-paying schools are given charity status, this means

big tax breaks. In return they have to prove that they benefit the

wider public, but in a recent speech, the former Labour schools

minister Lord Adonis said he wants the fee-paying schools to go

further, working more and more with academies to drive up standards for

all. The headmaster here says he has already doing his bit. The 2%

of our pupils receive bursaries already, and I am sure we could do

more, but we have to bear in mind that the parents are fee payers to

the school and they expect our focus to be clearly on this college.

A stone's throw a way is this high school, an academy, paid for by the

taxpayer. But could it benefit from more help from Malvern College?

will be harder for us to retain the breadth of curriculum, which is

perhaps where that corporation could be much more beneficial to

the children. What you do not want to do is narrow the curriculum, you

want children to have the choice. At the moment we can manage that,

but whether we can maintain that, I do not know. What about the pupils?

How would they feel about working closer? Both sides have

preconceptions about the other side. But it could wear it -- it could

work. Although the school does quite a bit, it is good to share

those opportunities with other schools who might not get to do

that. Lord Adonis is not saying this is about the haves helping the

have-nots. It is about integration in society.

For the record, Chris went to Wolverhampton High School, and

Bruce went to what was then Hemel Hempstead state grammar school. We

talk about one nation, in the Labour Party, but isn't Lord Adonis

doing a bit of a sort of us and them act in downplaying the

contribution of independent schools? 12,000 of their pupils get

either free or assisted places with their own schemes. That is a major

contribution. There is an element of us and them in the opportunities

available. The fee for going to Eton is 32 -- �32,000 a year.

are now part of the country, they are not bad. But in the clip, it

was 30,000. We also think of Wolverhampton Grammar School,

independent schools in towns and cities. I think bringing together

the schools is to be admired, but the blunt facts are that the

schools are way beyond the means of the majority of people. 19 of the

54 Prime Minister as well educated at Eton, including the present one,

so it is your places, but we cannot all afford it. Is it not reinforced

-- reinforcing the social divisions? Lord Adonis says the

youngsters are socially disabled because they are not integrated and

socialising widely and are. I think we should celebrate independent

schools. But the vast majority of them to work with the neighbouring

schools. I would like to see more of independent schools sponsoring

academies. There is great scope there. But I am not against

independent education. charitable status gives them tax

breaks, but is it not difficult because of the real value to the

community is. The vast majority of them do cherish their charitable

status, and take this CD sleeve. Lord Adonis seems to be saying that

it is socially disabling for them, but you are saying that all of the

top doctors and judges have an advantage. Which is it? I think

they can go together. That is one of the problems, that the people at

the top, such as the Prime Minister, I do not have any problem with them

going to Eton, but it means that he is operating in a rather

disconnected environment. Disconnected, Chris? This would

have greater attraction if it was not the Labour government that have

scrapped things like this. It was the greatest aid to social mobility

that occurred in my lifetime. could continue, but we must move

forward. Now, the regular round-up Unemployment went up by 16,000 in

the Midlands in the first quarter of the year. 9.2% of the workforce

have not got a job. In Coventry, Severn Trent Water has rejected a

�5 billion takeover bid from international investors because it

undervalues the company. The newly elected UKIP councillor has

resigned after posting offence of cartoons and drawings on a social

network side. I am not a politician, a bit of a full. I have not got a

racist bone in my body, but I can see why people think that. The bill

for the high-speed rail line linking London to the north was

formally presented to Parliament, for the National Audit Office to

report that the economic case for the project is still in doubt. And

the benefit from the cuts in the top rate of tax? The question post

by Unison to every Midlands MP. Most of the local Conservatives

simply did not answer. Chris, Unison tell me you are one

of the people there are still waiting to hear from. I am not

aware they even wrote to me, but I would like to question if the boss

of the union received such a tax cut himself. His fundamental point

is that there is an issue of transparency around people being

seen to vote through something from which they will benefit when most

people are experiencing a significant squeeze, that is his

point. But lower taxes are good for the economy, good for families, and

a yield greater revenue for the Treasury to invest in public

services. Wasn't that the point about the top rate, that it was

counter-productive for the Exchequer? I do not think people

who benefited from the cuts are too enthusiastic about publicising it.

�100,000 increase in their income as a result of the tax cut for the

richest people. Earlier we spoke about cutting back payments to

people with disabilities in the House. That just sums up the

balance of values of the Government. So did the damage to the Exchequer

while it was in for its? I cannot see whether -- why someone earning

more than a million pounds a year needs a bit more to work harder.

There is a big difference between new Labour and what we have today.

Thank you very much indeed. Next week, we will look ahead to

Thursday, when we have full coverage of the planned meeting