Browse content similar to 02/04/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
It's Sunday Morning and this is the Sunday Politics. | :00:37. | :00:40. | |
The Government has insisted that Gibraltar will not be bargained | :00:41. | :00:43. | |
But the territory's chief minister says the EU's proposal | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
After a momentous week, Britain's journey out | :00:48. | :00:53. | |
Can the Prime Minister satisfy her critics at home | :00:54. | :00:56. | |
We speak to the former Conservative leader, Michael Howard. | :00:57. | :01:02. | |
And we have the lowdown on next month's local elections - | :01:03. | :01:05. | |
what exactly is up for grabs, who's going up and who's going down? | :01:06. | :01:08. | |
And, in the Midlands, it's the Digby and Rigby show! | :01:09. | :01:10. | |
Sir Peter Jones says Brexit is a disaster. | :01:11. | :01:13. | |
Join him and him and me in half an hour. | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
changing their minds. MPs from opposing sides give the view from | :01:19. | :01:21. | |
there constituencies. And with me, as always, | :01:22. | :01:28. | |
the best and the brightest political panel in the business - | :01:29. | :01:31. | |
Steve Richards, Isabel Oakeshott and Tom Newton Dunn who'll be | :01:32. | :01:33. | |
tweeting throughout the programme. For the people of Gibraltar, Clause | :01:34. | :01:39. | |
22 of the EU's draft negotiating guidelines came as something | :01:40. | :01:41. | |
of a shock. The guidelines propose | :01:42. | :01:44. | |
that the Government in Spain be given a veto over any future trade | :01:45. | :01:49. | |
deal as it applies to The UK Government has reacted | :01:50. | :01:52. | |
strongly, saying Gibraltar will not be bargained away | :01:53. | :01:57. | |
in the Brexit talks. Here's the Defence Secretary, | :01:58. | :02:00. | |
Michael Fallon, speaking We are going to look | :02:01. | :02:06. | |
after Gibraltar. Gibraltar's going to be protected | :02:07. | :02:12. | |
all the way, all the way, because the sovereignty of Gibraltar | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
cannot be changed without the agreement of the people | :02:17. | :02:18. | |
of Gibraltar and they have made it very clear they do not | :02:19. | :02:21. | |
want to live under Spanish rule and it is interesting, I think, | :02:22. | :02:24. | |
in the draft guidelines from the EU that Spain is not saying | :02:25. | :02:27. | |
that the whole thing is subject Michael Fallon earlier. Steve, is | :02:28. | :02:39. | |
this a Spanish power grab or much ado about nothing? It could be both. | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
Clearly what is happening about this negotiation and will happen again | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
and again is that at different points individual countries can | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
start playing bargaining cards. They will say, if you want a deal, you | :02:54. | :03:00. | |
have to deliver this, UK. Spain is doing it early. It might turn out to | :03:01. | :03:04. | |
be nothing at all. It is an early example of how to delete recruit | :03:05. | :03:11. | |
after Article 50 is triggered, the dynamic -- how after Article 50 is | :03:12. | :03:19. | |
triggered, the dynamic changes. At certain points, any country can veto | :03:20. | :03:23. | |
it. It gives them much more power than we have clocked so far. Donald | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
Tusk, the head of the European Council, he went out of his way to | :03:29. | :03:34. | |
say Britain mustn't deal by laterally, with individual | :03:35. | :03:36. | |
countries, it has to deal with the EU as a block. Was it mischiefmaking | :03:37. | :03:43. | |
to add this bit in about Spain? Those two things do not tally. I | :03:44. | :03:51. | |
think on our part, when I say we, I mean the Foreign Office and Number | :03:52. | :03:58. | |
10, we dropped the ball. By excluding Gibraltar from the letter | :03:59. | :04:01. | |
of Article 50, they gave an opportunity to the Spanish to steal | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
the narrative. Why this is important, presentation, things | :04:07. | :04:11. | |
looked like they were going quite well for Theresa May when she handed | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
over the letter, for a few hours, and suddenly, you have this | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
incredible symbolism of Gibraltar. For Brexiteers, the idea that there | :04:21. | :04:26. | |
could be some kind of diminishment or failure in relation to Gibraltar, | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
it would be a very symbolic illustration of things not going | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
entirely to plan. Forget the detail, it does not look great. Gibraltar | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
got mentions in the white paper. They did not get a mention in the | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
Article 50 notification. Do you think the British Government did not | :04:45. | :04:50. | |
see this coming? To be honest, I do not think it would make a bit of | :04:51. | :04:53. | |
difference. Theresa May could have an entire chapter in her letter to | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
Donald Tusk and the Spanish and the EU would have still tried this on. | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
For me, it was as much a point of symbolism than it was for any power | :05:04. | :05:09. | |
grab. It was a good point to make. You need to know, Britain, you are | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
not in our club, we will not have your interests at heart. Officials | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
after the press conference, they went on to talk about it saying it | :05:19. | :05:24. | |
is a territorial dispute. It is not! Gibraltar is British. It is very | :05:25. | :05:31. | |
much a shot across the bow is. Whether it comes to pass, it is | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
still yet to be seen. I feel we will be chasing hares like this for the | :05:36. | :05:39. | |
next few years. There will be many other examples. They are greatly | :05:40. | :05:46. | |
empowered by the whole process. Britain has not really got... It has | :05:47. | :05:53. | |
got to wait and hear what their interpretation of Brexit is. They | :05:54. | :05:56. | |
will negotiate, we will negotiate accordingly. I have some sympathy | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
about the letter, the Article 50 letter. They agonised over it, so | :06:01. | :06:06. | |
much to get right in terms of balance and tone. It would have been | :06:07. | :06:09. | |
absurd to start mentioning Skegness and everything else. Why not! | :06:10. | :06:21. | |
Skegness, what did they do? It is a real example of how the dynamic now | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
changes. The Spanish royals are going to come here in a couple of | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
months, that could be interesting. It will be good feelings breaking | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
up, I am sure. -- breaking out. So, after a historic week, | :06:36. | :06:44. | |
the UK is now very much But will it be a smooth | :06:45. | :06:46. | |
journey to the exit door? Or can we expect | :06:47. | :06:50. | |
a bit of turbulence? Are you taking back | :06:51. | :06:52. | |
control, Prime Minister? Big days in politics usually | :06:53. | :06:55. | |
involve people shouting and the Prime Minister getting | :06:56. | :06:57. | |
in a car. It is only a few hundred metres | :06:58. | :06:59. | |
from Downing Street to Parliament. But the short journey is the start | :07:00. | :07:01. | |
of a much longer one and we do not know exactly | :07:02. | :07:04. | |
where we will all end up. This is a historic moment | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
from which there can Moments earlier, this Dear John, | :07:10. | :07:12. | |
sorry, Dear Don letter, was delivered by Britain's | :07:13. | :07:21. | |
ambassador in Brussels to the EU He seemed genuinely upset | :07:22. | :07:23. | |
to have been jilted. Back in Westminster, | :07:24. | :07:26. | |
hacks from around the world were trying to work out what it | :07:27. | :07:32. | |
all meant for the So, here it is, a copy | :07:33. | :07:35. | |
of the six-page letter The letter reaffirms the PM's | :07:36. | :07:41. | |
proposal to have talks on the exit deal and a future trade deal | :07:42. | :07:48. | |
at the same time. It also mentioned the word | :07:49. | :07:51. | |
"security" 11 times and stated a failure to reach agreement | :07:52. | :07:53. | |
would mean cooperation in the fight against crime | :07:54. | :07:55. | |
and terrorism would be weakened. Later, our very own Andrew got | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
to ask her what would happen if Britain left the European | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
policing agency, Europol. We would not be able to access | :08:04. | :08:09. | |
information in the same way as we would as a member, | :08:10. | :08:12. | |
so it is important, I think, we are able to negotiate | :08:13. | :08:16. | |
a continuing relationship that enables us to work together | :08:17. | :08:17. | |
in the way that we have. That night, the | :08:18. | :08:20. | |
Brexiteers were happy. We did not have a Mad | :08:21. | :08:22. | |
Hatter, but now we do. Down the street, even the Remainers, | :08:23. | :08:29. | |
having a Mad Hatters' tea party, I am not sure that is | :08:30. | :08:32. | |
actually Boris, though. The next morning, the papers | :08:33. | :08:41. | |
suggested Theresa May would use security as a bargaining tool | :08:42. | :08:56. | |
and threaten to withdraw the UK's cooperation in this area | :08:57. | :08:56. | |
if no deal was struck. Downing Street denied it, | :08:57. | :08:57. | |
as did the Brexit Secretary. We can both cope, but we | :08:58. | :08:57. | |
will both be worse off. That seems to be a statement | :08:58. | :09:00. | |
of fact, it is not a threat, David Davis had other | :09:01. | :09:03. | |
business that morning, introducing the Great Repeal Bill, | :09:04. | :09:06. | |
outling his plans to transfer all EU law into British | :09:07. | :09:08. | |
law to change later, It is not without its critics | :09:09. | :09:10. | |
but the Brexit Secretary said, among other benefits, | :09:11. | :09:16. | |
it would make trade talks easier As we exit the EU and seek | :09:17. | :09:18. | |
a new deep and special partnership with the European Union, | :09:19. | :09:25. | |
we are doing so from a position where we have the same | :09:26. | :09:27. | |
standards and rules. It will also ensure we deliver | :09:28. | :09:29. | |
on our promise to end the supremacy of European Union law | :09:30. | :09:35. | |
in the UK as we exit. There was, though, a small | :09:36. | :09:37. | |
issue with the name. The Government hit an early hurdle | :09:38. | :09:45. | |
with the Great Repeal Bill. Parliamentary draughtsmen said | :09:46. | :09:48. | |
they were not allowed Great(!) | :09:49. | :09:50. | |
so it is just the Repeal Bill. So far, it had been | :09:51. | :09:58. | |
a tale of two cities. By Friday, there was another, | :09:59. | :10:00. | |
Valletta in Malta, where EU leaders were having a meeting | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
and President Tusk, yes, him again, set out draft guidelines | :10:05. | :10:06. | |
for the EU Brexit strategy. Once, and only once, | :10:07. | :10:13. | |
we have achieved sufficient progress on the withdrawal can we discuss | :10:14. | :10:16. | |
the framework for our Starting parallel talks | :10:17. | :10:18. | |
on all issues at the same time, as suggested by some in the UK, | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
will not happen. The EU 27 does not and will not | :10:23. | :10:31. | |
pursue a punitive approach. Brexit in itself is | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
already punitive enough. The pressure on Theresa May to get | :10:36. | :10:42. | |
the Brexit process going has now gone and the stage is being set | :10:43. | :10:45. | |
elsewhere for the showdown But face-to-face discussions | :10:46. | :10:47. | |
are not likely to happen Before May or early June. No one is | :10:48. | :10:57. | |
celebrating just yet. We're joined now from Kent | :10:58. | :11:04. | |
by the former Conservative The EU says it will not talk about a | :11:05. | :11:12. | |
future relationship with the UK until there has been sufficient | :11:13. | :11:15. | |
progress on agreeing the divorce bill. Should the UK agree to this | :11:16. | :11:23. | |
phased approach? Well, I think you can make too much about the sequence | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
and timing of the negotiations. I assume that it will be a case of | :11:30. | :11:34. | |
nothing is agreed until everything is agreed and so any agreements that | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
might be reached on things talked about early on will be very | :11:39. | :11:43. | |
provisional, so I think you can make a big deal about the timing and the | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
sequence when I do not think it really matters as much as all that. | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
Don't people have a right in this country to be surprised of the talk | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
of a massive multi-billion pound divorce settlement? I do not | :11:58. | :12:00. | |
remember either side making much of this in the referendum, do you? No. | :12:01. | :12:08. | |
A select committee of the House of Lords recently reported and said | :12:09. | :12:11. | |
that there was no legal basis for any exit fee. We will have to see | :12:12. | :12:17. | |
how the negotiations go. I think some of the figures cited so far are | :12:18. | :12:24. | |
wildly out of kilter and wildly unrealistic. We will have to see | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
what happens in the negotiations. As one of your panel commented earlier, | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
there will be lots of hares to pursue over the next couple of years | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
and we should not get too excited about any of them. Would you accept | :12:38. | :12:44. | |
that we make... It may not be anything like the figures Brussels | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
is kicking around of 50, 60 billion euros, do you think we will have to | :12:49. | :12:56. | |
make a one-off settlement? If we get everything else we want, if we get a | :12:57. | :13:02. | |
really good trade deal and access for the City of London and so on, | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
speaking for myself, I would be prepared to make a modest payment. | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
But it all depends on the deal we get. What would modest be? Oh, I | :13:12. | :13:21. | |
cannot give you a figure. We are right at the start of the | :13:22. | :13:24. | |
negotiations. I do not think that would be agreed until near the end. | :13:25. | :13:30. | |
The EU says that if there is a transition period of several years | :13:31. | :13:33. | |
after the negotiations, and there is more talk of that, the UK must | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
remain subject to the free movement of peoples and the jurisdiction of | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
the European Court of Justice, would that be acceptable to you? It | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
depends on the nature of the transitional agreement. We are | :13:49. | :13:51. | |
getting well ahead of ourselves here. You cannot, I think, for any | :13:52. | :13:58. | |
judgment as to whether there should be a transitional stage until you | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
know what the final deal is. If there is to be a final deal. And | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
then you know how long it might take to implement that deal. That is | :14:07. | :14:13. | |
something I think that it is really rather futile to talk about at this | :14:14. | :14:18. | |
stage. It may become relevant, depending on the nature of the deal, | :14:19. | :14:22. | |
and that is the proper time to talk about it and decide what the answer | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
to the questions you pose might be. Except the EU has laid this out in | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
its negotiation mandate and it is reasonable to ask people like | :14:32. | :14:38. | |
yourself, should we accept that? It is reasonable for me to say, they | :14:39. | :14:42. | |
will raise all sorts of things in their negotiating mandate and we do | :14:43. | :14:46. | |
not need to form a view of all of them at this stage. Let me try | :14:47. | :14:50. | |
another one. The EU says if they do agree what you have called a | :14:51. | :14:53. | |
comprehensive free trade deal, we would have to accept EU constraints | :14:54. | :14:59. | |
on state aid and taxes like VAT and corporation tax. Would you accept | :15:00. | :15:06. | |
that? Again, I am not sure quite what they have in mind on that. We | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
will be an independent country when we leave and we will make our own | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
decisions about those matters. Not according to know that -- to the | :15:16. | :15:23. | |
negotiating mandate. As I have said, they can put all sorts of things in | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
the negotiating guidelines, it does not mean we have to agree with them. | :15:29. | :15:32. | |
No doubt that is something we can discuss in the context of a free | :15:33. | :15:38. | |
trade agreement. If we get a free trade agreement, that is very | :15:39. | :15:41. | |
important for them as well as for us, and we can talk about some of | :15:42. | :15:43. | |
the things you have just mentioned. Can you please leave a 20 without | :15:44. | :15:55. | |
having repatriated full control of migration, taxis and the law? I | :15:56. | :16:01. | |
think we will have repatriated all three of those things by the time of | :16:02. | :16:08. | |
the next general election. How high would you rate the chances of no | :16:09. | :16:11. | |
deal, and does that prospect worry you? I think the chances are we will | :16:12. | :16:18. | |
get the deal, and I think the chances are we will get a good deal, | :16:19. | :16:22. | |
because that is in the interests of both sides of this negotiation. But | :16:23. | :16:30. | |
it is not the end of the world if we do not get a deal. Most trade in the | :16:31. | :16:34. | |
world is carried out under World Trade Organisation rules. We would | :16:35. | :16:39. | |
be perfectly OK if we traded with the European Union, as with | :16:40. | :16:43. | |
everybody else, under World Trade Organisation rules. It is better to | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
get the deal, and I think we will get the deal, because it is in the | :16:48. | :16:52. | |
interests of both. Let me ask you about Gibraltar. You have campaigned | :16:53. | :16:55. | |
in Gibraltar when the sovereignty issue came up under the Tony Blair | :16:56. | :17:00. | |
government. The EU says that Spain should have a veto on whether any | :17:01. | :17:06. | |
free-trade deal should apply to the Rock. How should the British | :17:07. | :17:11. | |
government replied to that? As it has responded, by making it | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
absolutely clear that we will stand by Gibraltar. 35 years ago this | :17:17. | :17:23. | |
week, Andrew, another woman Prime Minister Centre task force is | :17:24. | :17:26. | |
halfway across the world to protect another small group of British | :17:27. | :17:29. | |
people against another Spanish-speaking country. I am | :17:30. | :17:35. | |
absolutely clear that our current woman Prime Minister will show the | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
same resolve in relation to Gibraltar as her predecessor did. | :17:40. | :17:50. | |
This is not about Spain invading Gibraltar, it is not even about | :17:51. | :17:52. | |
sovereignty, it is about Spain having a veto over whether any | :17:53. | :17:54. | |
free-trade deal that the UK makes with the EU should also apply to | :17:55. | :17:58. | |
Gibraltar. On that issue, how should the British government respond? The | :17:59. | :18:04. | |
British government should show resolve. It is not in the interests | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
of Spain, really, to interfere with free trade to Gibraltar. 10,000 | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
people who live in Spain working Gibraltar. That is a very important | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
Spanish interest, so I am very confident that in the end, we will | :18:19. | :18:23. | |
be able to look after all the interests of Gibraltar, including | :18:24. | :18:28. | |
free trade. Michael Howard, thank you for joining us from Kent this | :18:29. | :18:29. | |
morning. Although sometimes it seems | :18:30. | :18:32. | |
like everyone has forgotten, there are things happening | :18:33. | :18:34. | |
other than Brexit. In less than five weeks' time, | :18:35. | :18:36. | |
there will be a round of important domestic elections and there's a lot | :18:37. | :18:39. | |
up for grabs. Local elections take place | :18:40. | :18:42. | |
on the 4th of May in England, In England, there are elections | :18:43. | :18:45. | |
in 34 councils, with 2,370 The majority are county councils, | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
usually areas of strength Large cities where Labour usually | :18:51. | :18:56. | |
fares better are not Six regions of England will also | :18:57. | :19:03. | |
hold elections for newly created combined authority mayors, | :19:04. | :19:07. | |
and there will be contests for directly elected mayors, | :19:08. | :19:10. | |
with voters in Manchester, Liverpool and the West Midlands | :19:11. | :19:16. | |
among those going to the polls. In Scotland, every seat in all 32 | :19:17. | :19:19. | |
councils are being contested, many of them affected | :19:20. | :19:22. | |
by boundary changes. Since these seats were last | :19:23. | :19:24. | |
contested, Labour lost all but one Meanwhile, every seat in each | :19:25. | :19:27. | |
of Wales' 22 councils All but one was last elected | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
in 2012 in what was a very strong year for Labour, | :19:33. | :19:38. | |
though independent candidates currently hold | :19:39. | :19:40. | |
a quarter of council seats. According to the latest | :19:41. | :19:43. | |
calculations by Plymouth University Election Centre, | :19:44. | :19:44. | |
the Tories are predicted to increase their tally by 50 seats, | :19:45. | :19:50. | |
despite being in government, But the dramatic story in England | :19:51. | :19:53. | |
looks to be with the other parties, with the Lib-Dems possibly winning | :19:54. | :19:59. | |
100 seats, while Ukip could be seeing a fall, | :20:00. | :20:01. | |
predicted to lose 100 seats. Though the proportional system | :20:02. | :20:07. | |
usually makes big changes less likely in Scotland, | :20:08. | :20:08. | |
the SNP is predicted to increase both the number of seats | :20:09. | :20:12. | |
they hold, and the number In Wales, Labour is defending a high | :20:13. | :20:14. | |
water mark in support. Last year's Welsh Assembly elections | :20:15. | :20:23. | |
suggest the only way is down, with all the parties making modest | :20:24. | :20:26. | |
gains at Labour's expense. Joining me now is the BBC's | :20:27. | :20:28. | |
very own elections guru, Professor John Curtice | :20:29. | :20:31. | |
of the University of Strathclyde. Good to see you again. Let's start | :20:32. | :20:38. | |
with England. How bad are the selection is going to be for Labour? | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
Labourer not defending a great deal because this is for the most part | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
rural England. The only control three of the council they are | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
defending and they are only defending around 500 seats, I nearly | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
a quarter are in one county, Durham. Labour's position in the opinion | :20:57. | :21:00. | |
polls is weakened over the last 12 months and if you compare the | :21:01. | :21:03. | |
position in the opinion polls now with where they were in the spring | :21:04. | :21:15. | |
of 2013 when these seats in England were last fought, we are talking | :21:16. | :21:18. | |
about a 12 point swing from Labour to conservative. The estimate of 50 | :21:19. | :21:20. | |
losses may be somewhat optimistic for Labour. Of the three council | :21:21. | :21:24. | |
areas they control, two of them, Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire, | :21:25. | :21:27. | |
could be lost, leaving labourer with virtually a duck as far as council | :21:28. | :21:32. | |
control is concerned in these elections in England. In England, | :21:33. | :21:35. | |
what would a Liberal Democrat reserve urgently great? That is the | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
big question. We have had this picture since the EU referendum of | :21:41. | :21:44. | |
the Liberal Democrats doing extraordinarily well in some local | :21:45. | :21:47. | |
by-elections, gaining seats that they had not even fought before, and | :21:48. | :21:55. | |
in other areas, doing no more than treading water. We are expecting a | :21:56. | :21:58. | |
Liberal Democrat skin because the lost the lot -- the lost lots of | :21:59. | :22:01. | |
ground when they were in coalition with the Conservatives. It is | :22:02. | :22:05. | |
uncertain. A patchy performance may well be to their advantage. If they | :22:06. | :22:10. | |
do well in some places and gain seats, and elsewhere do not do | :22:11. | :22:13. | |
terribly well and do not waste votes, they may end up doing | :22:14. | :22:17. | |
relatively well in seats, even if the overall gaining votes is likely | :22:18. | :22:21. | |
to be modest. The elections for mayors, they are taking place in | :22:22. | :22:52. | |
the Labour will that be a hefty consolation prize for the Labour | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
Party? It ought to be, on Teesside, Merseyside, Greater Manchester. We | :22:57. | :22:58. | |
are looking at one content very closely, that is the contest for the | :22:59. | :23:01. | |
mayor of the West Midlands. If you look at what happened in the general | :23:02. | :23:04. | |
election in 2015, labourer work nine points ahead of the Conservatives in | :23:05. | :23:06. | |
the West Midlands. If you look at the swing since the general | :23:07. | :23:08. | |
election, if you add that swing to where we were two years ago, the | :23:09. | :23:11. | |
West Midlands now looks like a draw. Labour have to worry about a | :23:12. | :23:14. | |
headline grabbing loss, and the West Midlands contest. If they were to | :23:15. | :23:16. | |
lose, that wooden crate -- that would increase the pressure for | :23:17. | :23:18. | |
their own Jeremy Corbyn to convince people that they can turn his | :23:19. | :23:22. | |
party's fortunes around, and in truth at the moment, they are pretty | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
dire. The West Midlands has Birmingham as its heart. | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
Chock-a-block with marginal seats. It always has been. I always | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
remember election night and marginal seats in the West Midlands. | :23:37. | :23:44. | |
Scotland, the SNP is assaulting Labour's last remaining power base. | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
The biggest prizes Glasgow. Will it take it, the SNP? Whether the SNP | :23:50. | :23:54. | |
will gain control of Glasgow is uncertain. If you look at what is | :23:55. | :23:58. | |
happening in local government by-elections let alone the opinion | :23:59. | :24:03. | |
polls, in 2012, when these seats were last fought, Labour did | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
relatively well, only one percentage point behind the SNP who were rather | :24:08. | :24:12. | |
disappointed with the result compared to other elections. No sign | :24:13. | :24:16. | |
of that happening this time alone -- this time around. Polls put the SNP | :24:17. | :24:24. | |
ahead. By-elections have found the SNP advancing and Labour dropping by | :24:25. | :24:27. | |
double digits. Labour are going to lose everything they currently | :24:28. | :24:30. | |
control in Scotland, the SNP will become the dominant party, the | :24:31. | :24:35. | |
question is how well they do. In Scotland there is a Conservative | :24:36. | :24:38. | |
revival going on. The Conservatives did well in recent local government | :24:39. | :24:43. | |
by-elections. At the moment, Labour are expected to come third north of | :24:44. | :24:48. | |
the border in the local elections, repeating the third they suffered in | :24:49. | :24:54. | |
the Holyrood elections last year. In Wales, Labour is expecting to lose | :24:55. | :24:57. | |
control of a number of councils. They are the main party in 12 of 22 | :24:58. | :25:03. | |
local authorities. How bad could it be? We're expecting Labour to lose | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
ground. In the opinion polls when these seats were last fought, | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
labourer in the high 40s. Now they are not much above 30%. Cardiff | :25:13. | :25:17. | |
could well join Glasgow was no longer being a Labour stronghold. | :25:18. | :25:22. | |
Look out for Newport. Some of the South Wales councils that Labour | :25:23. | :25:25. | |
control, Labour is probably too but occasionally, Plaid | :25:26. | :25:41. | |
Cymru surprises in this area. They managed to win the Rhondda seat in | :25:42. | :25:43. | |
the assembly elections. Jeremy Corbyn has said he wants to be | :25:44. | :25:45. | |
judged on proper elections, council elections as opposed to opinion | :25:46. | :25:48. | |
polls, but even if he does as badly as John has been suggesting, does it | :25:49. | :25:51. | |
affect his leadership? I think it does on two counts. It will affect | :25:52. | :25:57. | |
his own confidence. Anyone who is a human being will be affected by | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
this. He might go into his office and be told by John McDonnell and | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
others, stand firm, it is all right, but it will affect his confidence | :26:07. | :26:12. | |
and inevitably it contributes to a sense that this is moving to some | :26:13. | :26:17. | |
kind of denoument, at some point. In other words, while I understand the | :26:18. | :26:21. | |
argument that he has won twice in a leadership contest, well, within 12 | :26:22. | :26:28. | |
months, I wonder whether this can carry on in a fixed term parliament, | :26:29. | :26:35. | |
up until 2020, if it were to do so. On two France, it will have some | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
impact. I am not seeing it will lead to his immediate departure, it will | :26:40. | :26:45. | |
mark, but if these things are as devastating as John suggests, it | :26:46. | :26:50. | |
will have an impact. Tom, I'll be looking at a Lib Dem fightback? That | :26:51. | :26:56. | |
is the $64,000 question. It would seem that we should be. One massive | :26:57. | :27:01. | |
reason we're not having a general election a time soon, apart from the | :27:02. | :27:05. | |
fact that Theresa May does not believe in these things, she | :27:06. | :27:08. | |
believes in pressing on, it is because Tory MPs in the South West | :27:09. | :27:13. | |
who took the Lib Dem seats, they were telling Number 10 they were | :27:14. | :27:15. | |
worried they were going to lose their seats back to the Lib Dems. | :27:16. | :27:20. | |
The Lib Dems never went away and local government. They have got | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
other campaigners and activists. It looks credible that they will be the | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
success story of the whole thing. Ukip leader, Paul Nuttall, he says | :27:30. | :27:33. | |
this will be the most difficult local elections his party will face | :27:34. | :27:40. | |
before 2020. A bit of management of expectations. It is unlikely to be a | :27:41. | :27:45. | |
good time for Ukip. They are right to manage expectations. The results | :27:46. | :27:50. | |
will be horrible for Ukip. I agree with Tom about the Lib Dem | :27:51. | :28:10. | |
threat to the Tories. Talking to some senior figures within the Tory | :28:11. | :28:14. | |
party earlier this week, I was picking up that they are worried | :28:15. | :28:16. | |
about 30-40 general election seeds being vulnerable to the Lib Dems | :28:17. | :28:19. | |
because of the Labour collapse. I would normally agree with Steve | :28:20. | :28:21. | |
about the resilience of politicians, the capability of withstanding | :28:22. | :28:23. | |
repeated blows, but Jeremy Corbyn is not in the normal category. I think | :28:24. | :28:26. | |
he is, in the sense that although he get solace from winning leadership | :28:27. | :28:28. | |
contest, anyone who leads a party into the kind of, it is not going to | :28:29. | :28:33. | |
be that vivid, because they are not defending the key seats. If they | :28:34. | :28:38. | |
were to win Birmingham, say, and get slaughtered by the SNP in Scotland, | :28:39. | :28:44. | |
it will undermine what is already a fairly ambiguous sense of | :28:45. | :28:48. | |
self-confidence. We need to leave it there. Thank you, John Curtice. | :28:49. | :28:50. | |
Well, with those elections on the horizon, is Labour where it | :28:51. | :28:53. | |
Former leader Ed Miliband was on the Andrew | :28:54. | :28:56. | |
Marr Show earlier and he explained the challenge Labour faces | :28:57. | :28:58. | |
It is easier for other parties, if you are the Greens or the | :28:59. | :29:03. | |
Liberal Democrats you're essentially fishing in the 48% pool. | :29:04. | :29:05. | |
If you are Ukip, you are fishing in the 52% pool. | :29:06. | :29:09. | |
Labour is trying to do something much harder, | :29:10. | :29:11. | |
which is to try and speak for the whole country, | :29:12. | :29:13. | |
and by the way, that is another part of | :29:14. | :29:16. | |
Our attack on Theresa May, part of it is she's | :29:17. | :29:19. | |
Ignoring the verdict going into this, saying, | :29:20. | :29:26. | |
let's overturn it, looks like ignoring the 52%. | :29:27. | :29:28. | |
By the way, there is more that unites Remainers | :29:29. | :29:34. | |
and Leavers than might first appear, because they share common | :29:35. | :29:36. | |
concerns about the way the country is run. | :29:37. | :29:41. | |
Joining me now is the Shadow Health Secretary, Jon Ashworth. | :29:42. | :29:46. | |
Welcome to the programme. Alastair Campbell told me on the BBC on | :29:47. | :29:51. | |
Thursday that he is fighting to reverse the referendum result. Ed | :29:52. | :29:56. | |
Miliband says that Remain needs to accept the result, come to terms | :29:57. | :30:02. | |
with it. Who is right? We have to accept the referendum result. I | :30:03. | :30:06. | |
campaigned passionately to remain in the European Union. The city I | :30:07. | :30:11. | |
represent, Leicester, voted narrowly to remain in the European Union. | :30:12. | :30:15. | |
Sadly the country did not. We cannot overturn that and be like kinky | :30:16. | :30:20. | |
nude, trying to demand the tide go back out. We have to accept this | :30:21. | :30:25. | |
democratic process. We all voted to have a referendum when the relevant | :30:26. | :30:33. | |
legislation came to Parliament. How bad will the local elections before | :30:34. | :30:41. | |
Labour? Let us see where we get to on election night when I am sure I | :30:42. | :30:47. | |
will be invited on to one of these types of programmes... The election | :30:48. | :30:56. | |
date, the following day. But it does look like you will lose seats across | :30:57. | :30:59. | |
the board in England, Scotland and Wales. What did you make of what | :31:00. | :31:04. | |
Steve Richards said about the impact on Jeremy Corbyn's leadership? We | :31:05. | :31:09. | |
have to win seats, we cannot fall back on the scales suggested. No, | :31:10. | :31:16. | |
your package was right, it tends to be Tory areas, but generally, we | :31:17. | :31:23. | |
have to be winning in Nottinghamshire, Lancashire, those | :31:24. | :31:27. | |
types of places because they contain a lot of the marginal constituencies | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
that decide general elections. The important places in the elections | :31:32. | :31:36. | |
are towns like Beeston, towns you have not heard of, but they are | :31:37. | :31:43. | |
marginal towns in marginal swing constituencies. We have to do well | :31:44. | :31:48. | |
in them. We will see where we are on election night but my pretty is to | :31:49. | :31:51. | |
campaign hard in these areas over the next few weeks. Even people who | :31:52. | :31:59. | |
voted Labour in 2015, they prefer Theresa May to Mr Corbyn as Prime | :32:00. | :32:05. | |
Minister, a recent poll said. Isn't that extraordinary? I have not seen | :32:06. | :32:09. | |
that. I will look it up. It was you Government. -- YouGov. It is | :32:10. | :32:17. | |
important we win the trust of people. You are not winning the | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
trust of people who voted for you in 2015. We have to hold onto people | :32:23. | :32:29. | |
who voted for us in 2015 and we have to persuade people who voted for | :32:30. | :32:32. | |
other parties to come to us. One of the criticisms I have of the debate | :32:33. | :32:37. | |
that goes on in the wider Labour Party, do not misunderstand me, I am | :32:38. | :32:42. | |
not making a criticism about an individual, but the debate you see | :32:43. | :32:46. | |
online suggests that if you want to get people who voted Conservative to | :32:47. | :32:52. | |
switch to Labour it is somehow a betrayal of our principles, it was | :32:53. | :32:56. | |
not. Justin Trudeau said Conservative voters are our | :32:57. | :33:02. | |
neighbours, our relatives. We have to persuade people to switch from | :33:03. | :33:07. | |
voting Conservative to voting Labour as well as increasing our vote among | :33:08. | :33:14. | |
nonvoters and Greens. It seems like you have a mountain to climb and the | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
mountain is Everest. Another poll, I am not sure if you have seen this, | :33:20. | :33:25. | |
in London, the Bastian of Labour, the Bastian of Remain, Mr Corbyn is | :33:26. | :33:35. | |
less popular than even Ukip's Paul Nuttall. That is beyond | :33:36. | :33:40. | |
extraordinary! I do not know about that. The most recent set of | :33:41. | :33:44. | |
elections in London was the mayoral election where the Labour candidate | :33:45. | :33:50. | |
city: won handsomely. He took the seat of a conservative. We took that | :33:51. | :33:56. | |
of a conservative. It was a year ago. We did well then. You had an | :33:57. | :34:09. | |
anti-Jeremy Corbyn candidate. I think he nominated Jeremy Corbyn, | :34:10. | :34:12. | |
from memory. We have not got elections in London but our | :34:13. | :34:16. | |
elections are in the county areas and the various mayoral elections... | :34:17. | :34:27. | |
What about the West Midlands? In any normal year, mid-term, as the | :34:28. | :34:31. | |
opposition, Labour should win the West Midlands. John Curtis says it | :34:32. | :34:37. | |
is nip and tuck. It has always been a swing region but we want to do | :34:38. | :34:41. | |
well, of course. We want to turn out a strong Labour vote in Dudley, | :34:42. | :34:48. | |
Northampton, those sorts of places. They are key constituencies in the | :34:49. | :34:54. | |
general election. Does Labour look like a government in waiting to you? | :34:55. | :34:59. | |
What I would say is contrast where we are to what the conservative | :35:00. | :35:04. | |
garment is doing. I asked you about Labour, you do not get to tell me | :35:05. | :35:08. | |
about the Conservatives. Does it look like a government in waiting to | :35:09. | :35:13. | |
you? Today we are exposing the Conservatives... Reminding people | :35:14. | :35:17. | |
the Conservatives are breaking the pledge on waiting times of 18 weeks | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
so lots of elderly people waiting longer in pain for hip replacements | :35:23. | :35:28. | |
and cataract replacements. Yesterday the Housing spokesperson John Healey | :35:29. | :35:31. | |
was exposing the shortcomings in the Help to Buy scheme. The education | :35:32. | :35:36. | |
spokesperson has been campaigning hard against the cuts to schools. | :35:37. | :35:40. | |
Tom Watson has been campaigning hard against some of the changes the | :35:41. | :35:45. | |
Government want to introduce in culture. The Shadow Cabinet are | :35:46. | :35:49. | |
working hard to hold the Government's feet to the fire. Does | :35:50. | :35:54. | |
it look like a government in waiting? Yes. It took you three | :35:55. | :36:00. | |
times! There is a social care crisis, schools funding issue, a | :36:01. | :36:04. | |
huge issue for lots of areas, the NHS has just got through the winter | :36:05. | :36:08. | |
and is abandoning many of its targets. You are 18 points behind in | :36:09. | :36:17. | |
the polls. We have to work harder. What can you do? The opinion polls | :36:18. | :36:23. | |
are challenging but we are a great Social Democratic Party of | :36:24. | :36:28. | |
government. On Twitter today, lots of Labour activists celebrating that | :36:29. | :36:31. | |
the national minimum wage has been in place for something like 16 years | :36:32. | :36:35. | |
because we were in government. Look of the sweeping progressive changes | :36:36. | :36:41. | |
this country has benefited from, the NHS, sure start centres, an assault | :36:42. | :36:45. | |
on child poverty, the Labour Party got itself in contention for | :36:46. | :36:50. | |
government. I entirely accept the polls do not make thrilling reading | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
for Labour politicians on Sunday morning, but it means people like me | :36:56. | :36:58. | |
have to work harder because we are part of something bigger than an | :36:59. | :37:01. | |
individual, we are in the business of changing things for the British | :37:02. | :37:05. | |
people and if we do not do that, if we do not focus on that, we are | :37:06. | :37:09. | |
letting people down. Is Labour preparing for an early election | :37:10. | :37:17. | |
question Billy burqa? Reports in the press of a war chest as macro for an | :37:18. | :37:22. | |
early election? The general election coordinator called for a general | :37:23. | :37:26. | |
election when Theresa May became Prime Minister. We are investing in | :37:27. | :37:29. | |
staff and the organisational capability we need. By the way, the | :37:30. | :37:35. | |
Labour Party staff do brilliant work. A bit of nonsense on Twitter | :37:36. | :37:40. | |
having a go at them. They do tremendous work. Whenever the | :37:41. | :37:43. | |
election comes, they will be ready. Jon Ashworth, thank you. | :37:44. | :37:52. | |
Welcome to the Sunday Politics in the Midlands. | :37:53. | :38:03. | |
And this week, it's the Digby and Rigby Show. | :38:04. | :38:06. | |
Digby Jones tells us why he's convinced we'll make a success | :38:07. | :38:09. | |
And Sir Peter Rigby, the head of a business empire. | :38:10. | :38:15. | |
Does he still think Brexit will be a disaster? | :38:16. | :38:19. | |
And how do our two MPs here today see this "momentous journey", | :38:20. | :38:22. | |
Wendy Morton, Conservative MP for Aldridge-Brownhills. | :38:23. | :38:27. | |
And Jack Dromey, Labour MP for Birmingham Erdington. | :38:28. | :38:30. | |
Good to have you both here with us today. | :38:31. | :38:34. | |
Just three hours before she signed that letter to Donald Tusk, | :38:35. | :38:38. | |
Theresa May was in Birmingham, for what we were told | :38:39. | :38:40. | |
was "a vote of confidence in the Midlands Engine, | :38:41. | :38:43. | |
In theory, the biggest-ever trade forum staged jointly by the British | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
and Qatari governments had nothing whatsoever to do with Article 50. | :38:48. | :38:51. | |
In practice, a ?5 billion injection into Birmingham Airport, | :38:52. | :38:54. | |
the NEC, education, healthcare, and cyber security projects | :38:55. | :39:01. | |
clearly gave one of her Cabinet colleagues grounds for hope, | :39:02. | :39:03. | |
that the world won't end in two years' time. | :39:04. | :39:06. | |
Britain is open for international trade. | :39:07. | :39:09. | |
In fact, we are a champion of free trade. | :39:10. | :39:13. | |
When you look at the world as it is developing now, | :39:14. | :39:16. | |
90% of global growth is actually being generated | :39:17. | :39:18. | |
The fact that they have brought the biggest ever inwards investment | :39:19. | :39:22. | |
delegation in our history to Birmingham is a real testament | :39:23. | :39:26. | |
to the opportunities and to the transformation | :39:27. | :39:30. | |
It certainly felt like a very sincere demonstration of confidence | :39:31. | :39:39. | |
in post-Brexit Britain, and the Midlands in particular. | :39:40. | :39:43. | |
Inward investment into Birmingham and Britain is very welcome, | :39:44. | :39:46. | |
But very big problems lie ahead for us at the next stages. | :39:47. | :39:53. | |
Crucially, it's about the deal that we now strike. | :39:54. | :40:03. | |
I was strongly for Remain, but we've got to try and make Brexit | :40:04. | :40:06. | |
That means certain fundamentals, one of which is access to the single | :40:07. | :40:11. | |
Because it is our single biggest market. | :40:12. | :40:14. | |
If we lose that then, for example, the Jaguar | :40:15. | :40:16. | |
workers in my constituency, currently producing cars, | :40:17. | :40:20. | |
exporting into Europe, will see tariff barriers, | :40:21. | :40:21. | |
So there are key issues that we have got a crack at the next stages. | :40:22. | :40:26. | |
And that is the very point that Doctor Ralf Speth, the boss of JLR, | :40:27. | :40:29. | |
After all, yes, we have a trade surplus with China uniquely in this | :40:30. | :40:34. | |
region, and JLR is a big part of that story. | :40:35. | :40:37. | |
But he's worried about access to his biggest markets, | :40:38. | :40:39. | |
Just going back to your point about the Qatar business visit, | :40:40. | :40:47. | |
I think that really shows confidence in the West Midlands and | :40:48. | :40:49. | |
Whilst I did vote remain, it was an unbalanced decision. | :40:50. | :40:57. | |
I take the view now that it is for us as a region and the country to go | :40:58. | :41:01. | |
out and get the best deal for the UK. | :41:02. | :41:04. | |
On Ralf Speth's point about access to Europe for the JLR. | :41:05. | :41:08. | |
Absolutely, and it's not just about JLR, it's about the businesses | :41:09. | :41:11. | |
I come from a business background myself, so I know | :41:12. | :41:15. | |
But there are businesses in my constituency as well, | :41:16. | :41:19. | |
so I will be wanting to make sure we get the best for those as well. | :41:20. | :41:23. | |
I think this is an opportunity that we must go out | :41:24. | :41:25. | |
In this age of ultra-fast fibre-optic broadband, | :41:26. | :41:33. | |
there was something very quaint about the way Britain's Ambassador | :41:34. | :41:39. | |
to the EU, the increasingly famous son of Leamington Spa, | :41:40. | :41:43. | |
Sir Tim Barrow, hand-delivered that letter from Theresa May | :41:44. | :41:45. | |
to Donald Tusk, the President of the European Council. | :41:46. | :41:47. | |
So now we can expect two years' of talk about roller-coaster rides, | :41:48. | :41:52. | |
I wonder if our political reporter, Sian Grzeszczyk, | :41:53. | :41:56. | |
However you describe this, there's no turning back now. | :41:57. | :42:03. | |
And as journeys go, some are straightforward. | :42:04. | :42:05. | |
Others, well, are a bit of a rollercoaster. | :42:06. | :42:13. | |
And now that Brexit has been triggered, the journey truly begins. | :42:14. | :42:16. | |
Brexiteers and Remainers are all speculating | :42:17. | :42:17. | |
about the ups and downs on the track ahead. | :42:18. | :42:21. | |
But with so many unknowns, no-one can tell for certain just how | :42:22. | :42:24. | |
things will look when we do get off the EU ride in two years' time. | :42:25. | :42:29. | |
The only way is up, according to the owner | :42:30. | :42:31. | |
of Drayton Manor theme park - he voted out. | :42:32. | :42:35. | |
So what does he hope will be the benefits for his business? | :42:36. | :42:37. | |
Cutting out red tape, if we can, would be wonderful. | :42:38. | :42:40. | |
The tourism industry is huge, it's the fourth largest industry | :42:41. | :42:48. | |
It's very important for us to be able to get on with our jobs, | :42:49. | :42:53. | |
instead of having to continually look at health and safety | :42:54. | :42:56. | |
that is ludicrous because it's come from the EU. | :42:57. | :43:02. | |
There are concerns about the timescale - | :43:03. | :43:04. | |
is two years long enough to negotiate a good enough deal | :43:05. | :43:08. | |
and to dodge things like expensive tarriffs? | :43:09. | :43:13. | |
I voted to stay in, but now it's happened, | :43:14. | :43:16. | |
I just think we've got to make the most of it. | :43:17. | :43:19. | |
The country's not going to fall to bits, I don't think. | :43:20. | :43:23. | |
Over in Aston, Jason Wouhra's cash and carry business | :43:24. | :43:25. | |
is already losing thousands because of the weakened pound. | :43:26. | :43:27. | |
He thinks there are a number of risks | :43:28. | :43:29. | |
if the UK doesn't get a good enough deal. | :43:30. | :43:34. | |
The risks are it becomes a lot more difficult to export, | :43:35. | :43:39. | |
a bigger paper trail, more customs, more tariffs, | :43:40. | :43:41. | |
And that will make things more and more difficult. | :43:42. | :43:45. | |
I think that we will find if the right deal isn't struck, | :43:46. | :43:48. | |
UK businesses will become a little bit more insular and probably | :43:49. | :43:50. | |
At the moment, with our economy, we need to export | :43:51. | :43:55. | |
It is a plan for a new, deep and special partnership between | :43:56. | :44:00. | |
And as Prime Minister triggered Article 50, | :44:01. | :44:04. | |
this Midlands Brexiteer had plenty to say. | :44:05. | :44:07. | |
We were promised death of the first-born by Friday, | :44:08. | :44:11. | |
we were promised a plague of frogs and locusts and all this. | :44:12. | :44:14. | |
The fall in sterling has really helped because, of course, | :44:15. | :44:18. | |
what it's done is it's made how exports cheaper around the world. | :44:19. | :44:21. | |
And it actually made sure that we've reached out more | :44:22. | :44:29. | |
to the rest of the world, and that's no bad thing. | :44:30. | :44:34. | |
Whilst many Brexiteers are probably celebrating with a pint, | :44:35. | :44:36. | |
Remainers are concerned about things spinning out of control. | :44:37. | :44:46. | |
Certainly no joyride, these negotiations. | :44:47. | :44:47. | |
And also here with us here today, Sir Peter Rigby, who has described | :44:48. | :44:51. | |
He's the Founder, Chief Executive and Chairman of the Rigby Group, | :44:52. | :44:55. | |
which includes aviation, financial services, | :44:56. | :45:00. | |
property and information technology businesses. | :45:01. | :45:03. | |
You saw there what Digby Jones said - no plague of locusts. | :45:04. | :45:06. | |
Well, I was very much a Remainer, Patrick, driven mostly by the fact | :45:07. | :45:14. | |
that I spent many years creating a European business. | :45:15. | :45:17. | |
20 countries, thousands of people in the technology field. | :45:18. | :45:22. | |
The thought of losing that market position was of great concern. | :45:23. | :45:24. | |
It's a market, at the end of the day, worth 500 billion. | :45:25. | :45:27. | |
Providing we haven't lost the relationship with that, | :45:28. | :45:36. | |
and that is the key negotiating stance for me, then I think | :45:37. | :45:39. | |
Business is very pragmatic, and I am too. | :45:40. | :45:44. | |
The desire to remain is left behind, and we are now | :45:45. | :45:47. | |
And indeed you do speak with the experience of wanting that | :45:48. | :45:52. | |
ride righty of business interests that you mentioned there. | :45:53. | :45:55. | |
Liam Fox, when I was talking to him that at that forum, | :45:56. | :45:58. | |
also said to me that 90% of the global growth at the moment | :45:59. | :46:01. | |
So there is plenty left out there of opportunities | :46:02. | :46:05. | |
There is, but it's going to take an awful lot of Australias | :46:06. | :46:12. | |
and New Zealands to make up for a 500 billion | :46:13. | :46:15. | |
I was with Liam Fox ten days ago, in Vietnam, where he came | :46:16. | :46:22. | |
to open my new global call centre in Vietnam. | :46:23. | :46:26. | |
Of course, we are trying hard to entice nations like Vietnam, | :46:27. | :46:29. | |
but they do 4 billion only with us in trade. | :46:30. | :46:34. | |
So we certainly should be working these markets, | :46:35. | :46:37. | |
At the end of the day, we've also got to protect our | :46:38. | :46:45. | |
When governments go into difficult negotiations, you will often hear | :46:46. | :46:49. | |
ministers sort of talking expectations down a little bit | :46:50. | :46:51. | |
in the hope that, in the end, they can pull the rabbit out | :46:52. | :46:54. | |
This time, expectations seem to be managed upwards, | :46:55. | :46:57. | |
Does that surprise you, the way it's being handled? | :46:58. | :47:03. | |
But free and open access to markets are the objective? | :47:04. | :47:14. | |
Yes, I don't think it's quite as easy as that. | :47:15. | :47:17. | |
I mean, we've got to gear up and step up and invest to do | :47:18. | :47:20. | |
Therefore our businesses here need protection, they need support, | :47:21. | :47:26. | |
they need financial support as well, and encouragement to do this. | :47:27. | :47:29. | |
The incentives that I'm offered to redecorate one of my Paris | :47:30. | :47:38. | |
operations to northern France in terms of salary support, | :47:39. | :47:41. | |
in terms of office accommodation and so on are enormous. | :47:42. | :47:50. | |
Could you put a cost on the likely cost of Brexit? | :47:51. | :47:53. | |
A number on it, as far as your businesses are concerned? | :47:54. | :47:58. | |
No, we are positive about this, let me make that quite clear. | :47:59. | :48:03. | |
We have just recorded our best ever year's trading in 40 years. | :48:04. | :48:06. | |
Having said that, in technology, I know that many decisions have been | :48:07. | :48:14. | |
shelved, many long-term investments have been shelved because what | :48:15. | :48:26. | |
And indeed uncertainty in spades is what this process over | :48:27. | :48:30. | |
the next how many years, practically, is going to bring us. | :48:31. | :48:33. | |
So what would you say to reassure people? | :48:34. | :48:37. | |
I take a very pragmatic view, like Sir Peter. | :48:38. | :48:39. | |
There will be challenges along the way. | :48:40. | :48:41. | |
But, at the same time, we have got to go out | :48:42. | :48:44. | |
We've got to go out and seek out not just to further develop | :48:45. | :48:52. | |
relationships with had with those EU partners that we had | :48:53. | :48:54. | |
when we were within the EU, because they will want to trade | :48:55. | :48:57. | |
But also we must use is as an opportunity to look | :48:58. | :49:02. | |
beyond Europe and look for new markets. | :49:03. | :49:04. | |
Let me point out to you one thing that struck me | :49:05. | :49:06. | |
in the Prime Minister's statement the other day, that worker | :49:07. | :49:09. | |
protection is one of the issues that Labour is expressing, | :49:10. | :49:11. | |
Theresa May said that she gets that, and the Government may in certain | :49:12. | :49:16. | |
areas seek to strengthen worker protection outside the EU. | :49:17. | :49:20. | |
That's an important political reaching out to working people up | :49:21. | :49:23. | |
in your constituency, I suggest. | :49:24. | :49:25. | |
You'll forgive me if, from bitter experience - | :49:26. | :49:32. | |
I took a case to the European court of justice to win protection under | :49:33. | :49:36. | |
the transfer of undertakings for 6 million public servants, | :49:37. | :49:38. | |
The Brexiteers are led by those who for years have argued | :49:39. | :49:47. | |
against what they called red tape but I call workers' writes. | :49:48. | :49:50. | |
Indeed, in the piece just now, to hear health and safety | :49:51. | :49:54. | |
Health and safety is the difference between people living and dying, | :49:55. | :49:59. | |
Somebody would say that is a reason why we should have | :50:00. | :50:04. | |
There are differences between what we would describe | :50:05. | :50:06. | |
as red tape and what you would describe as workers' rights. | :50:07. | :50:09. | |
The repeal Bill is going to bring those rights that are currently | :50:10. | :50:12. | |
in Europe to the UK, so then we will have our | :50:13. | :50:14. | |
own sovereign power, we can look at those. | :50:15. | :50:16. | |
I will wait and see because I'm quite certain | :50:17. | :50:22. | |
that the Prime Minister really does get this piece. | :50:23. | :50:25. | |
At that Drayton Manor theme park, I was interested to discover | :50:26. | :50:28. | |
that there were actually 23 different nationalities working | :50:29. | :50:30. | |
This raises the whole question of recruitment and access, | :50:31. | :50:37. | |
movement of people, which is also part of this big negotiation. | :50:38. | :50:39. | |
One of our business interests is hotels. | :50:40. | :50:42. | |
I would say that 70% of the staff are EU nationals. | :50:43. | :50:50. | |
They are very good at what they do, they have a real work ethic, | :50:51. | :50:53. | |
To lose those people would massively damage the leisure industry, | :50:54. | :50:57. | |
So somehow, we certainly got to keep those people we have here. | :50:58. | :51:08. | |
There were 700,000 people working in hospitality in this country | :51:09. | :51:10. | |
I was talking to a major employer, one of our vice chancellors | :51:11. | :51:25. | |
here in Birmingham, in the last 48 hours. | :51:26. | :51:27. | |
They already saying that they are having | :51:28. | :51:28. | |
real problems retaining, key people with key skills | :51:29. | :51:30. | |
who are going back home because they don't see | :51:31. | :51:32. | |
Where do you see this country in, let's say, five years' time? | :51:33. | :51:37. | |
Five years is a long time, isn't it, in this day and age. | :51:38. | :51:41. | |
As far as we're concerned, we will continue to invest | :51:42. | :51:43. | |
and look after our businesses and develop them. | :51:44. | :51:45. | |
I think the nature of the business will change. | :51:46. | :51:48. | |
For example, we are investing heavily in R | :51:49. | :51:51. | |
We are interested in cognitive computing, | :51:52. | :51:52. | |
In five years' time, that will be absolutely across the piece, | :51:53. | :52:00. | |
and that will bring its own problems with it too, by the way. | :52:01. | :52:03. | |
In particular, thanks to you for being with us today, Sir Peter. | :52:04. | :52:07. | |
"A cabal of right-wing Labour MPs from the West Midlands." | :52:08. | :52:10. | |
That's the scathing description by the Unite union leader, | :52:11. | :52:15. | |
Len McCluskey, of what he sees as smear tactics, | :52:16. | :52:18. | |
designed to undermine his re-election campaign. | :52:19. | :52:22. | |
It follows a call by John Spellar, Labour MP for Warley, | :52:23. | :52:25. | |
for an investigation into some of the union branches | :52:26. | :52:27. | |
As Nick Watson explains, it all revives memories | :52:28. | :52:31. | |
of the bitter battles which tore Labour apart in the '80s. | :52:32. | :52:36. | |
After weeks of campaigning, voting is now underway. | :52:37. | :52:39. | |
But this election isn't just about the future of Unite, | :52:40. | :52:41. | |
it's also about the future of the Labour party. | :52:42. | :52:43. | |
Len McCluskey is the left-wing leader seeking re-election - | :52:44. | :52:46. | |
Gerard Coyne is supported by so-called moderate Labour MPs - | :52:47. | :52:55. | |
many of them from the West Midlands - | :52:56. | :52:57. | |
who want to see the back of Mr McCluskey and Mr Corbyn. | :52:58. | :53:01. | |
It's time for our union to be focused on matters that | :53:02. | :53:04. | |
actually our members are concerned about. | :53:05. | :53:05. | |
That's about protecting them at work, improving their pay | :53:06. | :53:08. | |
and conditions, rather than messing around in Westminster politics. | :53:09. | :53:12. | |
Labour's deputy leader, West Bromwich East MP Tom Watson | :53:13. | :53:15. | |
recently alleged there was a plot involving Unite and the Corbyn | :53:16. | :53:18. | |
supporting Momentum group to take control of Labour. | :53:19. | :53:22. | |
Now Warley MP John Spellar has entered the fray. | :53:23. | :53:32. | |
He's reported Unite to the trade union certification officer, | :53:33. | :53:34. | |
suggesting irregularities in some of the branches declaring | :53:35. | :53:36. | |
He won his battle is to expel the hard left from the Labour Party | :53:37. | :53:40. | |
in the 1980s, but does he think he'll be successful this time? | :53:41. | :53:43. | |
It's only when we had won that battle inside the Labour Party that, | :53:44. | :53:49. | |
in 1997, we won the confidence of the British people | :53:50. | :53:51. | |
On a visit to the region on Friday to back BMW workers, | :53:52. | :53:58. | |
There is a cabal of West Midlands MPs who are attempting to abuse | :53:59. | :54:05. | |
the democracy of Unite, and they are trying | :54:06. | :54:08. | |
to turn our election into a completely separate election, | :54:09. | :54:11. | |
an election to do with the Labour Party. | :54:12. | :54:15. | |
These individuals are skilled in the dark arts. | :54:16. | :54:18. | |
It's in their DNA, they've been doing it for years. | :54:19. | :54:20. | |
The result of the Unite election will be announced later this month. | :54:21. | :54:26. | |
For Labour, it could be a defining moment every bit as important | :54:27. | :54:29. | |
And there's a third candidate in this Unite leadership election. | :54:30. | :54:37. | |
And Mr McCluskey also confirmed Tom Watson | :54:38. | :54:43. | |
and Jack Dromey were in that Right Wing West Midlands | :54:44. | :54:46. | |
"Labour cabal", which he branded "shameful and disgraceful." | :54:47. | :54:51. | |
It's all getting a bit personal, isn't it? | :54:52. | :54:53. | |
You've written a column in the Birmingham Mail | :54:54. | :54:56. | |
in which you have a real go at Len McCluskey, saying | :54:57. | :54:58. | |
that he is seeking to take control of the Labour Party, dooming the | :54:59. | :55:04. | |
When he describes me as being part of a | :55:05. | :55:13. | |
right-wing cabal, I was born on the left | :55:14. | :55:15. | |
But the more important thing is this. | :55:16. | :55:18. | |
Unions have never been more important than they are now. | :55:19. | :55:20. | |
What we need is strong leadership which focuses on why | :55:21. | :55:23. | |
a union exists, and that its members in the world of work. | :55:24. | :55:26. | |
Gerard is one of the most outstanding trade | :55:27. | :55:28. | |
unionists that I have ever worked with. | :55:29. | :55:32. | |
I believe he is capable of leading a renaissance of trade | :55:33. | :55:35. | |
For me, as an old union man who came through | :55:36. | :55:43. | |
the ranks of the Transport and General and then ultimately the | :55:44. | :55:49. | |
deputy of Unite, I want to see the union succeed. | :55:50. | :55:51. | |
Len's problem is he is focused on control. | :55:52. | :55:54. | |
Control of the union and control | :55:55. | :55:55. | |
For me, it is about the union, not the Labour Party. | :55:56. | :55:59. | |
But Len, for too long, has focused on the | :56:00. | :56:01. | |
Labour Party, the Labour Party, the Labour Party. | :56:02. | :56:07. | |
It's about time we focused on the union, the union, the union. | :56:08. | :56:10. | |
The problem with that is both sides are saying this is all about | :56:11. | :56:14. | |
the union and not meddling in Westminster politics. | :56:15. | :56:16. | |
But it actually is surely seen absolutely as a battle | :56:17. | :56:20. | |
for the leadership, the very future of the Labour Party itself. | :56:21. | :56:24. | |
Given, if you look at the links between the various people | :56:25. | :56:26. | |
involved in this, it clear as daylight | :56:27. | :56:31. | |
that that is what this is all about, isn't it? | :56:32. | :56:33. | |
Len has been focused on control of the Labour | :56:34. | :56:42. | |
Party, and I'm not to sure that he's that fussed about whether or not | :56:43. | :56:45. | |
the Labour Party ever again forms of Parliament. | :56:46. | :56:47. | |
Ultimately, that means, in the world of work, | :56:48. | :56:51. | |
strong and effective trade union organisations that can stand | :56:52. | :56:53. | |
In the corridors of power, the support of | :56:54. | :56:57. | |
the country is needed to form a government. | :56:58. | :56:59. | |
I don't want to see working people let down by us being | :57:00. | :57:02. | |
You resigned a shadow ministerial job in order to | :57:03. | :57:07. | |
try and accelerate Jeremy Corbyn's departure from leadership, | :57:08. | :57:09. | |
and yet he just seems to get stronger in the party, | :57:10. | :57:15. | |
the more people in your cabal, if that is the word, oppose him. | :57:16. | :57:18. | |
We've got a real problem with that, there's no doubt. | :57:19. | :57:20. | |
It's not appropriate just to personalise it | :57:21. | :57:22. | |
Right now, we are not regarded to be a credible | :57:23. | :57:25. | |
We have got to rebuild and win a fresh | :57:26. | :57:29. | |
the trust of the British people because I do not want to see, with | :57:30. | :57:36. | |
the greatest of respect to you, Wendy, an eternal opposition for | :57:37. | :57:40. | |
the Labour Party and eternal government | :57:41. | :57:42. | |
Do you think they are right when they say that the union should | :57:43. | :57:46. | |
focus exquisitely on their members and not on meddling in politics? | :57:47. | :57:50. | |
Jack mentioned the words strong leadership, and I think what we're | :57:51. | :57:53. | |
seeing here is a battle within the unions, a lack | :57:54. | :57:55. | |
of leadership for both unions and within the Labour Party, | :57:56. | :57:58. | |
to sort out with his cabal what the way forward is. | :57:59. | :58:07. | |
You contrast that with the strong leadership that we | :58:08. | :58:13. | |
have within government, at a time when this country, as we recognise | :58:14. | :58:16. | |
and acknowledge, faces challenges, we need strong leadership. | :58:17. | :58:17. | |
So what else has been making the news here over this past week? | :58:18. | :58:23. | |
is brought to us today by Ben Godfrey. | :58:24. | :58:26. | |
The Asphalt Industry Alliance says it would cost councils a staggering | :58:27. | :58:29. | |
?1.25 billion to fill in the region's potholes. | :58:30. | :58:33. | |
A report to the board running Shropshire's hospitals | :58:34. | :58:35. | |
says Telford's A may have to close overnight | :58:36. | :58:38. | |
to the West Midlands mayoral election, | :58:39. | :58:44. | |
Labour's candidate launched his manifesto | :58:45. | :58:46. | |
in the Black Country with a promise to boost apprenticeships. | :58:47. | :58:53. | |
I'm saying, for every ?1 million that we invest in infrastructure in | :58:54. | :59:00. | |
the West Midlands, we need to deliver on apprenticeship to improve | :59:01. | :59:05. | |
the skill of our young people. Wolverhampton Labour MP Pat McFadden | :59:06. | :59:07. | |
has written a letter signed by 85 MPs and MEPs defending | :59:08. | :59:09. | |
the BBC's Brexit coverage after Solihull Tory Julian Knight wrote | :59:10. | :59:12. | |
one saying it was too pessimistic. And BMW workers at the Hams Hall | :59:13. | :59:17. | |
engine plant in Warwickshire have voted for strike action | :59:18. | :59:19. | |
in protest at plans to close their | :59:20. | :59:22. | |
final salary pension scheme. The threat of a strike there looms | :59:23. | :59:36. | |
at BMW. The usable that strike? BMW is a profitable, successful Company. | :59:37. | :59:41. | |
Key to that success is its workforce. It is wrong to close the | :59:42. | :59:45. | |
pension scheme. I'm behind the workers. Do you have sympathy for | :59:46. | :59:50. | |
people who are losing salary late did pensions? I do have simply with | :59:51. | :59:56. | |
those workers, but it is a commercial matter to be resolved | :59:57. | :59:59. | |
between the employers and those on strike. I would hope that they would | :00:00. | :00:06. | |
come to an amicable arrangement. Briefly, these are often seen as | :00:07. | :00:09. | |
gold-plated pensions will stop increasingly for many out there, | :00:10. | :00:14. | |
they are a thing of the past. Why should these workers be different? | :00:15. | :00:18. | |
Because security and dignity in retirement matters would begin work | :00:19. | :00:20. | |
all your life for a company and you are key to its success, you are | :00:21. | :00:24. | |
entitled in your old age two and a decent pension. | :00:25. | :00:26. | |
My thanks to Wendy Morton and Jack Dromey. | :00:27. | :00:27. | |
Finally from me, a word about a special programme | :00:28. | :00:30. | |
I'll be presenting in a couple of weeks' time. | :00:31. | :00:32. | |
A Mayor For The West Midlands is our BBC Midlands Debate show, | :00:33. | :00:34. | |
in which the main contenders will go head-to-head | :00:35. | :00:36. | |
Join us on Thursday the 20th of April at 10:45pm, | :00:37. | :00:41. | |
that's immediately after the News, here on BBC One. | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
And Sunday Politics will return after its Easter break, | :00:46. | :00:47. | |
This, though, is where we rejoin Andrew Neil. | :00:48. | :01:05. | |
So, what will be the effect of new tax and benefit changes | :01:06. | :01:07. | |
Will the Government's grand trade tour reap benefits? | :01:08. | :01:11. | |
And are the Lib Dems really going to replace Labour, | :01:12. | :01:13. | |
To answer that last question, I'm joined by from Salford | :01:14. | :01:25. | |
by the Lib Dem MP, Alistair Carmichael. | :01:26. | :01:30. | |
Michael Fallon sirs the Lib Dems will replace Labour. How long will | :01:31. | :01:39. | |
it take? We will have to wait and see. Anyone who thinks you can | :01:40. | :01:44. | |
predict the future is engaged in a dodgy game. I have been campaigning | :01:45. | :01:50. | |
with the Liberal Democrats in Manchester... You must not | :01:51. | :01:55. | |
mention... You know the by-election rules. It is only an illustration. | :01:56. | :02:02. | |
Across false ways of the country, the Liberal Democrats are back in | :02:03. | :02:12. | |
business -- across whole swathes of the country. Part of the reason why | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
we are getting a good response is because the Labour Party under | :02:17. | :02:21. | |
Jeremy Corbyn has taken such a self-destructive path. Even if you | :02:22. | :02:26. | |
do pretty well in the local elections, it you have to make up | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
lost ground from the time you did very well in previous times, you | :02:31. | :02:37. | |
used to have 4700 councillors. It will take you a long while to get | :02:38. | :02:41. | |
back to that. You will get no argument from me that we have a | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
mountain to climb. What I'm telling you is, and if this is not just in | :02:46. | :02:50. | |
this round of elections, it is in the other by-elections in places | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
like Richmond, and in by-elections write the length and breadth of the | :02:56. | :03:00. | |
country since last June, the Liberal Democrats are taking seats from the | :03:01. | :03:04. | |
Labour Party under Conservative Party, and not just in Brexit phobic | :03:05. | :03:12. | |
areas. Not just in Remain areas. But in places like Sunderland as well | :03:13. | :03:15. | |
which voted very heavily for Brexit. In fact, that vote was in large part | :03:16. | :03:22. | |
as well a protest against the way in which the Labour Party really has | :03:23. | :03:26. | |
taken these areas for granted over the years. That is why the ground is | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
fertile for us. In the local elections which is what we are | :03:32. | :03:37. | |
discussing today, why would anybody vote for the Liberal Democrats if | :03:38. | :03:41. | |
they believed in Brexit? Mr Farren has said he wants to reverse works. | :03:42. | :03:50. | |
If you are Brexit supporter and you are considering how to cast your | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
vote, first of all, I think you will be looking at the quality of | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
representation you can get for your local area and you are right, we | :03:59. | :04:01. | |
have a lot of ground to recoup from previous elections, we lost 124 | :04:02. | :04:10. | |
seats, communities have now had a few years to reflect on the quality | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
of service they have been able to get and they have missed the very | :04:16. | :04:18. | |
effective liberal Democrat councillors they have had. This is | :04:19. | :04:24. | |
not just about whether you are a believer or remainer, ultimately, | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
that is an issue we are going to have to settle and we will settle it | :04:30. | :04:35. | |
not in the way the Government is having by dictating the terms of the | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
debate, but by bringing the whole country together. I think that is | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
something you can only do if, as we have suggested, you give the people | :04:45. | :04:48. | |
the opportunity to have a say on the deal when Theresa May eventually | :04:49. | :04:51. | |
produces it. The only way you could really replace Labour in the | :04:52. | :04:57. | |
foreseeable future would be if a big chunk of the centre and right of the | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
Labour Party came over and join due in some kind of new social | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
democratic alliance. -- joined you. There is no sign that will happen? I | :05:08. | :05:12. | |
do not see whether common purpose is anymore holding the Labour Party | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
together. That is for people in the Labour Party to make their own | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
decisions. Use what happened to the Labour Party in Scotland. -- you | :05:22. | :05:29. | |
saw. Politics moved on and left them behind and they were decimated as a | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
consequence of that. So was your party. It is possible the same thing | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
could happen to the Labour Party and the rest of the UK. Politics is | :05:38. | :05:42. | |
moving on and they are coming up with 1970s solutions to problems in | :05:43. | :05:49. | |
2017. Alistair Carmichael, thanks for joining us. Let us have a look | :05:50. | :05:55. | |
at some of the tax and benefit changes coming up this week. The tax | :05:56. | :06:01. | |
changes first of all. The personal allowance is going to rise to | :06:02. | :06:05. | |
?11,500, the level at which you start to pay tax. The higher rate | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
threshold, where you start to play at 40%, that will rise from | :06:11. | :06:16. | |
currently ?43,400, rising up to 40 5000. -- pay. Benefit changes, | :06:17. | :06:25. | |
freeze on working age benefits, removal of the family element of tax | :06:26. | :06:32. | |
credits and universal credit, that is a technical change but quite an | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
impact. The child element of tax credit is going to be limited to two | :06:37. | :06:43. | |
children on any new claims. The Resolution Foundation has crunched | :06:44. | :06:50. | |
the numbers and they discovered that when you take the tax and benefit | :06:51. | :06:56. | |
changes together, 80% go to better off households and the poorest third | :06:57. | :07:04. | |
or worse. What help -- what happened to help the just about managing? The | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
Resolution Foundation exists to find the worst possible statistics... It | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
is not clear the figures are wrong? They are fairly recent figures and I | :07:14. | :07:20. | |
have not seen analysis by other organisations. The Adam Smith | :07:21. | :07:23. | |
Institute will probably have some question marks over it. Nobody | :07:24. | :07:28. | |
should be surprised a Tory government is trying to make the | :07:29. | :07:31. | |
state smaller... And the poor poorer. The system is propped up by | :07:32. | :07:38. | |
better off people and so it will be those people who will be slightly | :07:39. | :07:41. | |
less heavily taxed as you make the state smaller. Theresa May will have | :07:42. | :07:49. | |
to stop just talking about the just about managing. And some of her | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
other language and the role of the government and the state when she | :07:54. | :07:58. | |
sounded quite positive... She sounded like a big government | :07:59. | :08:02. | |
conservative not small government. In every set piece occasion, she | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
says, it is time to look at the good the government can do. That is not | :08:08. | :08:15. | |
what you heard from Mrs Thatcher. Tony Blair and Gordon Brown would | :08:16. | :08:18. | |
not have dared to say it either even if they believed it. It raises a | :08:19. | :08:23. | |
much bigger question which is, as well as whether this is a set of | :08:24. | :08:30. | |
progressive measures, the Resolution Foundation constantly argued when | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
George Osborne announced his budget measures as progressive when they | :08:35. | :08:37. | |
were regressive when they checked out the figures, but also how this | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
government was going to meet the demand for public services when it | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
has ruled out virtually any tax rises that you would normally do | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
now, including National Insurance. There are a whole range of nightmare | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
issues on Philip Hammond's in-tray in relation to tax. The Resolution | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
Foundation figures do not include the rise in the minimum wage which | :09:01. | :09:05. | |
has just gone under way. They do not include the tax free childcare from | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
the end of April, the extra 15 hours of free childcare from September. | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
Even when you include these, it does not look like it would offset the | :09:15. | :09:18. | |
losses of the poorest households. Doesn't that have to be a problem | :09:19. | :09:23. | |
for Theresa May? It really is a problem especially when her | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
narrative and indeed entire purpose in government is for that just about | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
managing. What Mrs May still has which is exactly a problem they have | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
at the budget and the Autumn Statement is that they are still | :09:38. | :09:40. | |
saddled with George Osborne's massive ring fences on tax cuts and | :09:41. | :09:47. | |
spending. They have to go through with the tax cut for the middle | :09:48. | :09:50. | |
classes by pushing up the higher rate threshold which is absolutely | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
going to do nothing for the just about managing. When they try to | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
mitigate that, for example, in the Autumn Statement, Philip Hammond was | :09:59. | :10:01. | |
told to come up with more money to ease the cuts in tax credits, came | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
up with 350 million, an absolute... It is billions and billions | :10:07. | :10:12. | |
involved. Marginal adjustment. A huge problem with the actual tax and | :10:13. | :10:16. | |
benefit changes going on with what Mrs May as saying. The only way to | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
fix it is coming up with more money to alleviate that. Where will you | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
find it? Philip Hammond tried in the Budget with the National Insurance | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
rises but it lasted six and a half days. I was told that it was one of | :10:29. | :10:34. | |
the reasons why the Chancellor looked kindly on the idea of an | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
early election because he wanted to get rid of what he regards as an | :10:40. | :10:45. | |
albatross around his neck, the Tory manifesto 2015, no increase in | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
income tax, no increase in VAT, no increase in National Insurance, fuel | :10:50. | :10:54. | |
duty was not cut when fuel prices were falling so it is hardly going | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
to rise now when they are rising again. This is why, I suggest, they | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
end up in these incredibly complicated what we used to call | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
stealth taxes as ways of trying to raise money and invariably a blow up | :11:09. | :11:13. | |
in your face. Stealth taxes never end up being stealthy. It is part of | :11:14. | :11:18. | |
the narrative that budget begins to fall apart within hours. You have to | :11:19. | :11:24. | |
have sympathy, as Tom says, with Philip Hammond. No wonder he would | :11:25. | :11:27. | |
like to be liberated. The early election will not happen. The best | :11:28. | :11:32. | |
argument I have heard for an early election. The tax and spend about at | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
the last election was a disaster partly because the Conservatives | :11:37. | :11:41. | |
feared they would lose. Maybe they could be a bit more candid about the | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
need to put up some taxes to pay for public services and it is very | :11:47. | :11:52. | |
interesting what you picked up on Philip Hammond because he is | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
trapped. So constrained about... You can also reopen the Ring fencing and | :11:57. | :12:03. | |
spending and the obvious place to go is the triple lock, OAP spending. | :12:04. | :12:09. | |
Another case for an election. He cannot undo the promise to that | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
demographic. We will not get to 2020 without something breaking. The | :12:15. | :12:18. | |
Prime Minister, the trade secretary and Mr Hammond, they are off to | :12:19. | :12:25. | |
India, the Far East, talking up trade with these countries, I do not | :12:26. | :12:32. | |
know if any of you are going? Sadly not. Will it produce dividends? The | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
prime Minster is going somewhere too. No, it will not, the honest | :12:38. | :12:43. | |
answer. No one will do a trade deal with us because we cannot do one | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
because we are still in the EU and they need to know what our terms | :12:48. | :12:50. | |
will be with the EU first before they can work out how they want to | :12:51. | :12:54. | |
trade with us. This is vital preparatory work. Ministers always | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
go somewhere in recess, it is what they do. We will not see anything in | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
a hurry, we will not see anything for two years. They have to do it. | :13:04. | :13:09. | |
Whatever side of the joint you are on, Brexit, remain, we need to get | :13:10. | :13:14. | |
out there. -- the argument. We should have been doing this the day | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
after the referendum result. It is now several months down the line and | :13:19. | :13:21. | |
they need to step it up, not the opposite. You can make some informal | :13:22. | :13:28. | |
talks, I guess. You can say, Britain is open for business. There is a | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
symbolism to it. What a lot of energy sucked up into this. | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
Parliament is not sitting so they might as well start talking. We have | :13:38. | :13:43. | |
run out of energy and time. That is it for today. We are off for the | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
Easter recess, back in two weeks' time. If it is Sunday, it is the | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
Sunday Politics. Unless it is that used to recess! -- Easter recess. | :13:53. | :14:21. | |
Marine Le Pen has her eyes on the French presidency. | :14:22. | :14:24. | |
As she tries to distance herself from her party's controversial past, | :14:25. | :14:28. | |
we follow the money and ask, "Who's funding her campaign?" | :14:29. | :14:52. | |
I think I've died and gone to heaven. Saluti. Chin-chin. | :14:53. | :14:56. |