Browse content similar to 04/03/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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In the West - With a huge increase in the number of Brits being jailed | :01:23. | :01:26. | |
in European prisons, we ask if it's time to reform our extradition | :01:26. | :01:36. | |
:01:36. | :01:36. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1780 seconds | :01:36. | :31:16. | |
Welcome to the Sunday Politics in the West. But coming up, the Brits | :31:16. | :31:21. | |
or hauled off to foreign prisons under the European arrest warrant. | :31:21. | :31:26. | |
Is there any justice in it? Before you get an early morning | :31:26. | :31:34. | |
upon the door from the euro police, let me introduce hour two guests. | :31:34. | :31:38. | |
They are two Sisters of the coalition, Charlotte Leslie, a | :31:38. | :31:41. | |
Conservative bruiser who loves to box in her spare time, and Tessa | :31:41. | :31:47. | |
Munt, who has also been in a few scraps in her time, and she is a | :31:47. | :31:54. | |
Lib Dem MP for Wells? Are their tensions emerging between | :31:54. | :31:58. | |
the two parties this last week? They have been no punch-ups in the | :31:58. | :32:05. | |
Commons! Who is in charge? | :32:05. | :32:09. | |
It is a coalition. There has been some compromise, as you would | :32:09. | :32:12. | |
expect, but we are united in the challenge we are facing in bringing | :32:12. | :32:16. | |
the country through the awful legacy left by the last government, | :32:16. | :32:20. | |
and it is that common aim that is keeping us together. There are | :32:20. | :32:25. | |
tough moments, but we have to stage together. | :32:25. | :32:30. | |
When it last? Yes, it will. We have to make sure | :32:30. | :32:33. | |
we're all doing the right thing for the country, and it is absolutely | :32:33. | :32:37. | |
clear from my point of view that there are Lib Dem policies being | :32:37. | :32:41. | |
brought into practice. The voters see you as the head of | :32:41. | :32:45. | |
blame, and that you will get hammered at the next election. That | :32:45. | :32:49. | |
is what the indications are. I do not think the polls are | :32:49. | :32:54. | |
correct here. We shall see. | :32:54. | :32:58. | |
First, to our story about extradition. | :32:58. | :33:01. | |
The European Arrest Warrant has seen scores of Britons banged up in | :33:01. | :33:04. | |
foreign jails after being handed over by our own bodies. Under the | :33:04. | :33:11. | |
terms of the agreement, British citizens can be arrested on the | :33:11. | :33:17. | |
order of any European state to face charges. | :33:17. | :33:20. | |
Over 1000 miles from home, Michael Turner from Dorset and Jason | :33:20. | :33:24. | |
McGoldrick from Devon were held in this prison after being arrested | :33:24. | :33:29. | |
when their timeshare marketing company collapsed, owing �18,000. | :33:29. | :33:34. | |
It was back in 2009 that they were extradited to this jail. Michael | :33:34. | :33:39. | |
says he was interviewed only once by police, and kept in his cell for | :33:39. | :33:43. | |
23 hours a day. The warrant was designed to catch | :33:43. | :33:48. | |
murderers and terrorists, like this man, Hussain Osman. He was wanted | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
over the failed London bombings in 2005, and was extradited under the | :33:52. | :33:56. | |
European Arrest Warrant from Italy back to the UK. | :33:56. | :34:02. | |
Graham Watson, the south-west Lib Dem MEP, was a key architect. | :34:02. | :34:06. | |
It has vastly enhance the role of law on our continent. | :34:06. | :34:10. | |
The European Arrest Warrant swept away at a stroke the safeguards | :34:10. | :34:17. | |
against the rest established in Britain over 1000 years. | :34:17. | :34:24. | |
You may shake your head. In the Commons, a grouping MPs says | :34:24. | :34:28. | |
there is urgent need for reform of the system. 16,007, the nub of | :34:29. | :34:35. | |
arrest warrants have dramatically increased. -- since 2007. | :34:35. | :34:40. | |
We have 15 times more warrants than opponent. We have got to put in | :34:40. | :34:44. | |
place some basic checks to make sure that the innocent are not | :34:44. | :34:51. | |
swept along with those that we need brought to justice. -- opponent. | :34:51. | :34:55. | |
These two will be back in Hungary in June to face charges of fraud, | :34:55. | :35:00. | |
which they deny. Meanwhile, the Home Office are considering changes | :35:00. | :35:03. | |
to the extradition agreements with Europe and the United States to | :35:03. | :35:08. | |
provide greater protection for British citizens. | :35:08. | :35:12. | |
You saw him in that piece, William Dartmouth, he joins me now in our | :35:12. | :35:19. | |
studio. What is the problem? You asked if there is any justice, | :35:19. | :35:26. | |
and the answer is no, there is not. It is being used for offences which | :35:26. | :35:30. | |
are comparatively trivial. A British judge does not have the | :35:30. | :35:34. | |
right to look at the primary evidence, there is absolutely no | :35:34. | :35:44. | |
:35:44. | :35:47. | ||
safeguard. Only 10 out of 210 in 2009. | :35:47. | :35:51. | |
If it it has got a European label, the Lib Dems say it must be | :35:51. | :35:56. | |
alright! Produce a back -- British subject are being surrendered to | :35:56. | :35:59. | |
harsh legal systems, for example, the Hungarian system permits | :35:59. | :36:04. | |
someone to be in remand prison, to be held in remand prison under very | :36:04. | :36:09. | |
harsh conditions for up to three years before coming to trial. | :36:09. | :36:14. | |
Justice is to be done, and it is a small world. It is easy to commit a | :36:14. | :36:18. | |
crime anywhere in the world. It is daft to have border controls in | :36:18. | :36:22. | |
place that stop criminals being apprehended. | :36:22. | :36:27. | |
Police forces and governments have co-operated across boundaries since | :36:27. | :36:35. | |
before the Second World War. For example, Britain has been a member | :36:35. | :36:40. | |
of Interpol since 1923. We can perfectly well to operate on | :36:40. | :36:44. | |
serious crime, for example, terrorism, without at the same time | :36:44. | :36:49. | |
giving away our hard-won liberties. I must make a serious point, which | :36:50. | :36:54. | |
is that the European Court of Human Rights has intervened to prevent | :36:54. | :37:01. | |
Abu Qatada's deportation back to Jordan. So the fact of the mattress, | :37:01. | :37:06. | |
the mess we have got ourselves in, spearheaded by the Liberal Democrat, | :37:06. | :37:14. | |
has meant that on one level, we cannot defend our own people. We | :37:14. | :37:18. | |
cannot... It was not very long ago that you | :37:18. | :37:23. | |
could not touch a criminal in Spain. It was the Costa del Sol, and they | :37:23. | :37:27. | |
were laughing at the British authorities. This has changed. That | :37:27. | :37:33. | |
has to be a good thing. No, that was changed in 2001, when | :37:33. | :37:38. | |
Jack Straw, the then Home Secretary, introduced a fast-track extradition | :37:38. | :37:42. | |
treaty with Spain. So you like that? | :37:42. | :37:50. | |
Yes, but no -- but not no questions asked. The film made a connection | :37:50. | :37:53. | |
between the European arrest warrant and the treaty between the US and | :37:53. | :38:03. | |
:38:03. | :38:03. | ||
the UK. Let's bring in other guests. The | :38:03. | :38:07. | |
Tories have and puff about Europe a lot, but they are allowing this to | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
go ahead. Justice is not being done, and if | :38:11. | :38:15. | |
you look at the proportion of it, for every one person that is given | :38:15. | :38:20. | |
over to us in extradition, we give nine back, so it is not working out. | :38:20. | :38:26. | |
It was a knee-jerk reaction after 9/11, and the intentions were | :38:26. | :38:31. | |
absolutely right. It rests on the basis that justice systems in | :38:31. | :38:34. | |
European countries are the same as ours. There is a lot of talk about | :38:35. | :38:38. | |
human rights, but it is clear that they are not being protected for | :38:38. | :38:43. | |
our citizens. Tessa, what a day mistake by your | :38:43. | :38:47. | |
colleagues to pave the way for this legislation in Europe? -- what it a | :38:47. | :38:52. | |
mistake. No, I do not think it was. There | :38:52. | :38:56. | |
are lots of tariffs, drug smugglers and goodness knows how many other | :38:56. | :39:01. | |
people who have been moved around to be tried. It is ludicrous to | :39:01. | :39:05. | |
suggest that we should not have something. What it has done is it | :39:05. | :39:08. | |
has identified that there are different regimes and different | :39:08. | :39:13. | |
standards across Europe. Europe has recognised this and has | :39:13. | :39:17. | |
acknowledged it is not being used properly. | :39:17. | :39:21. | |
But it has not done anything about it. Politicians make mistakes all | :39:21. | :39:27. | |
the time in their legislation. However, what this piece of | :39:27. | :39:31. | |
legislation has done and why it is particularly pension should -- a | :39:31. | :39:36. | |
particularly pernicious is because it is ruining people's lives. What | :39:36. | :39:40. | |
these people are accused of his four events that took place between | :39:40. | :39:47. | |
2003 and a 2005. They will get a verdict in June 2012. I was that | :39:47. | :39:51. | |
the first day of the hearing, and I can assure the two Ladies opposite | :39:51. | :39:54. | |
that David was in Britain, what they were accused of would be taken | :39:54. | :40:01. | |
place in a civil court, probably a small claims court. | :40:01. | :40:06. | |
It is being used for investigation and not persecution. It needs | :40:06. | :40:10. | |
cross-party agreement that this is to change, and we have that. I | :40:10. | :40:14. | |
spoke in a debate that we just saw, and I was talking about a wider | :40:14. | :40:18. | |
review of arrangements, as the government is looking at the report | :40:18. | :40:21. | |
that is looking to change it, and there is agreement at hope that we | :40:21. | :40:27. | |
can do that. It has been there for nine years. | :40:27. | :40:32. | |
It is a bit late now! It was never intended to be used in | :40:32. | :40:37. | |
a disproportionate weight. When you have got to be punished try to | :40:37. | :40:46. | |
extradite people for stealing bikes... -- the punish. | :40:46. | :40:50. | |
They commissioned a big report, and we have had had a lot of debate, a | :40:50. | :40:57. | |
lot of people have spoken, and we hope it will be reformed. | :40:57. | :41:00. | |
In the meantime, people's lives will continue to be rent until this | :41:00. | :41:07. | |
legislation is suspended. -- continued to be run into. | :41:07. | :41:12. | |
We have to stop there. Charlotte and Tessa were among 230 new | :41:12. | :41:15. | |
arrivals in Parliament after the last election. As with any new job, | :41:15. | :41:21. | |
it takes time to settle in. But two years on, many express frustration | :41:22. | :41:26. | |
about what they consider to be the fuddy-duddy ways of Parliament. | :41:26. | :41:31. | |
It was an injection of youth and enthusiasm. More than one-third of | :41:31. | :41:36. | |
the MPs elected in 2010 were new. Few could have known what they were | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
letting themselves in for. This is the most public face of Parliament, | :41:40. | :41:45. | |
the weekly performance that is Prime Minister's Questions. But the | :41:45. | :41:51. | |
chamber gives a misleading picture. The Commons sits from 2:30pm to | :41:51. | :41:59. | |
10pm. On Thursday it is an hour earlier. | :41:59. | :42:07. | |
Occasionally, MPs coming on Fridays. And in reality, most of the time, | :42:07. | :42:12. | |
most of the seeds are empty. Westminster Hall acts as an | :42:12. | :42:16. | |
overflow for smaller debate. This one, on reforming Parliament, was | :42:16. | :42:21. | |
well attended. The public's suspicion about MPs' | :42:21. | :42:24. | |
behaviour following the expenses scandal has not gone away. Many | :42:24. | :42:29. | |
people are asking what exactly is it that MPs do? | :42:29. | :42:33. | |
Notes the abundance of pens and paper rather than any form of | :42:33. | :42:41. | |
computer nerds. -- computer. We should be trying iPad Fat | :42:41. | :42:51. | |
:42:51. | :42:52. | ||
Prophets in committee. -- iPads. The but many advances are resisted. | :42:52. | :42:56. | |
There is a question about electronic voting. I know there | :42:56. | :43:00. | |
will be a sharp intake of breath when I say that! | :43:00. | :43:06. | |
Is dead, voting is done through walking through lobbies. One person | :43:06. | :43:10. | |
says MPs should be freer to challenge government. | :43:10. | :43:14. | |
The role of Parliament is not to run the country, it is to hold to | :43:14. | :43:17. | |
account those who do. I think members of parliament should take | :43:17. | :43:22. | |
much more seriously their role of holding government to account at | :43:22. | :43:26. | |
being parliamentarians first and then perhaps some members of the | :43:26. | :43:29. | |
government or possible members of the Government's second. | :43:30. | :43:34. | |
MPs can independently bring forward it meant -- motions at Private | :43:34. | :43:37. | |
Member's Bills, but these almost never made it onto the statute | :43:37. | :43:44. | |
books. I'll -- I often think the Commons | :43:44. | :43:51. | |
is a sophisticated open prison. We say you will sign mind if I will | :43:51. | :43:55. | |
sign yours. These things do not affect the direction of government, | :43:55. | :43:59. | |
all the way in which we are governed, and Private Member's | :43:59. | :44:02. | |
Bills are a classic example. It is very frustrating to have one and | :44:02. | :44:07. | |
five government's talking out your bill. -- government. | :44:07. | :44:12. | |
That is what happened recently to a daylight Saving Bill. Jacob Rees- | :44:12. | :44:16. | |
Mogg was among a small group determined to kill it off. | :44:16. | :44:20. | |
I notice that when I propose that Somerset should have his own time | :44:20. | :44:25. | |
zone, which seems to me a personal -- perfectly rational thing, this | :44:25. | :44:30. | |
was thought to be slightly eccentric. | :44:30. | :44:34. | |
This has come back again, and this is probably less a debate about | :44:34. | :44:38. | |
daylight saving and more about the debate about the internal process | :44:38. | :44:42. | |
getting the way of getting something done. | :44:42. | :44:47. | |
Dennis praise for the work of select committees. At hope that a | :44:47. | :44:53. | |
forthcoming report on the role of MPs may bring about change. | :44:53. | :44:57. | |
If you cannot take a joke you should not have joined! IUD | :44:57. | :45:01. | |
disillusioned after a couple of years in Parliament? | :45:01. | :45:06. | |
I am not, because for me it is fantastic. I can go and talk to | :45:06. | :45:10. | |
ministers and get things changed, and achieve what I want to. I | :45:10. | :45:13. | |
always said when I elected that if I could change one thing, that is | :45:13. | :45:18. | |
brilliant. Have you changed one thing? | :45:18. | :45:23. | |
Are probably more than that. You have turned a bid for a long | :45:23. | :45:28. | |
time. Now you are there. Is it what it is cracked up to be? | :45:28. | :45:32. | |
Yes, it is a fantastic job and you get -- and you can get things | :45:32. | :45:36. | |
changed. But you should not look at it objected -- you should look at | :45:36. | :45:41. | |
it objectively, and it is difficult, because you can get swallowed up by | :45:41. | :45:45. | |
the system. There are ways of thinking that it is really | :45:45. | :45:49. | |
dislocated from reality. After a few days in that place, from Monday | :45:49. | :45:54. | |
to Wednesday, you have been with the same people all week, you eat | :45:54. | :46:01. | |
in the same canteens, you really crave... It is really good to get | :46:01. | :46:05. | |
back to the constituency and see what real life is like, and it is a | :46:05. | :46:11. | |
constant quest to get back there. One of the points made was about | :46:11. | :46:16. | |
your prime job. Do you see it as representing opposite was on | :46:16. | :46:20. | |
holding the government to account? For I see my job in the | :46:20. | :46:24. | |
constituency as taking information, soaking up information from my | :46:24. | :46:27. | |
constituents about the things that go wrong for them, and then going | :46:27. | :46:33. | |
to London and sorting that stuff up. That is the way I see it. | :46:33. | :46:38. | |
On your way policy-maker? No, I am socially a social worker. | :46:38. | :46:42. | |
No offence to any of them who are watching. It is probably very | :46:42. | :46:47. | |
similar to that, because I am the one person to whom people can come | :46:47. | :46:53. | |
to as what they see as the last resort. It is fantastic. | :46:53. | :46:57. | |
What about the rules and regulations? We saw Jacob Rees-Mogg | :46:57. | :47:03. | |
talking out that Bill. People make a distinction between | :47:04. | :47:07. | |
Parliament and the constituency, but I see the constituency about -- | :47:08. | :47:14. | |
as reality. You get reality from real life, and politics has to get | :47:14. | :47:19. | |
real. On the arcane processes, the daylight Saving Bill was | :47:19. | :47:23. | |
infuriating, because unusually, there was a real cross-party | :47:23. | :47:28. | |
agreement that something needed to change. Over 100 MPs, which is | :47:28. | :47:32. | |
remarkable, stayed away from their constituencies to come to this | :47:32. | :47:38. | |
review, which the country wanted. It was not debated, it was simply | :47:38. | :47:44. | |
told that? Yes, at that should never happen. I | :47:44. | :47:48. | |
would like to see private members' bills on a Wednesday evening so we | :47:48. | :47:58. | |
:47:58. | :47:58. | ||
can all go as talk about them. -- all go and talk about them. | :47:58. | :48:03. | |
The rules mean we have to push on! It is time for other sprint through | :48:03. | :48:10. | |
the political week in just 60 seconds. -- our sprinter. | :48:10. | :48:13. | |
The last of the West's big councils have been setting their budgets, | :48:13. | :48:17. | |
but Bristol and well she joined our other councils in confirming they | :48:17. | :48:22. | |
will not be put in a their charges. -- Wiltshire. | :48:22. | :48:25. | |
Organisers of the annual St Paul's Carnival say this year's | :48:25. | :48:30. | |
celebration will be smaller because they have not had enough donations. | :48:30. | :48:33. | |
It is part funded by the city council and attract up to 100,000 | :48:33. | :48:37. | |
people. Protesters have been occupied part | :48:37. | :48:41. | |
of the Hinkley Point site in Somerset have been evicted and | :48:41. | :48:45. | |
never to return. The GMB union has announced a 12 | :48:45. | :48:49. | |
more strike days at Swindon's Great Western Hospital. Cleaners and | :48:49. | :48:53. | |
domestic workers are in a dispute with their employer, Carillion. | :48:53. | :48:58. | |
We have had a lot about privatisation, but this week, | :48:58. | :49:02. | |
Somerset County Council say there are two Lumiere privatise some | :49:02. | :49:07. | |
projects. -- they are to un- privatise. They have decided it is | :49:07. | :49:15. | |
cheaper to do some things in house. That was the week that has just | :49:15. | :49:20. | |
flashed past. Let's pick up that story about | :49:20. | :49:28. | |
privatisation. Southwest One, this un-privitisation, if that is such a | :49:28. | :49:35. | |
word. Are the days of selling off services coming to an end? | :49:35. | :49:40. | |
I had a questionable palp -- punch up with the County Council over the | :49:40. | :49:47. | |
last few months about this. Youth services, the young carer service, | :49:47. | :49:51. | |
all the youth clubs, bus services. They're trying to divest themselves | :49:51. | :49:54. | |
of any responsibility to provide a service for those who are | :49:55. | :49:59. | |
vulnerable in any way, and I have to say it is good to see them, and | :49:59. | :50:04. | |
I in favour of them are getting much more like this. | :50:04. | :50:12. | |
I UA fan of privitisation? I am a fan of whatever the world's | :50:12. | :50:17. | |
best. Sometimes, the private sector does things better. -- whatever is | :50:17. | :50:26. | |
best. New Labour and the Conservatives | :50:26. | :50:29. | |
have talked about privatisation, and in some cases it has been | :50:29. | :50:34. | |
magnificent. But we have got to be open about it and say that they may | :50:34. | :50:38. | |
be cases where it is not right. My first campaign was against | :50:39. | :50:42. | |
privatisation, but there are some cases where charities and private | :50:42. | :50:50. | |
organisations can run things better. Thank you. That is it from the West | :50:50. | :50:53. | |
this week. The Sunday Politics continues with Andrew, who is in | :50:54. | :50:58. |