04/11/2012 Sunday Politics West

In the West: Fighting to be top of the cops. We will be quizzing the

candidates hoping to run Avon and Somerset Police. But with cuts and

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2066 seconds

You join us live for the Sunday Politics in the West. It is pretty

cold out today. Today, the battle to be police commissioner. It is

less than two weeks to polling day but what are the issues and who

will you vote for? What will the new person at the top actually do

for their money? The elections take place right across the west in

Dorset, Wiltshire and Gloucestershire but we will turn

the spotlight on the largest forced, that is Avon and Somerset. --

largest force. We have all for what candidates in the same room. They

are the Lib Dem at Peter Levene he is a Bristol councillor. Ken Madoc.

Sue Mountstevens, she is the only independent and a former magistrate.

And also Labour's Jon Savage. I will give you each a short time to

give us your top priority. We will start with John Savage. The top

priority is we have to set a budget and there is not a lot of time

after being appointed. Anyone who kids themselves there are easy

solutions to the big problems is kidding themselves. We need to sit

down and talk and listen to people. Sue Mountstevens. I want to keep

party politics out of policing. I want to be sure we are doing what

the residents of Avon and Somerset want not what Westminster once.

Madoc. The main thing is to cut crime. If we cut crime, we cut the

amount of distress caused to victims and the amount of work

needed to buy the entire judicial system. Pete Levy. We need to do

what the Government should have done, find out how we explain to

the public what a police and crime commissioners can do and re-engage

with a demoralised police force. The Chief Constable of Avon and

Somerset is a man of many years' experience. He is a respected chief

constable. Is there a single issue you could say, you have got that

wrong and I will come here and tell you how to do it? I do not think so.

He is the chief constable and he is a professional police officer, he

has learned that. He is supported by an excellent road. -- excellent

group. The PCC role is completely different. If you look at the

statistics for Avon and Somerset, the crime reduction is amazing. We

need to find ways of keeping that going. A lot of people will say,

what is the point of this? There are big changes coming. The changes

are to hold the police to account, in a democratic way, that has never

been done before. That is a substantial change. We know there

are big shortages of money coming in. We need to make sure there is a

big police power. At his right. need to open the police up -- that

is right. We need to get the public more involved in the police hunt

for the police to go out to the community and explain to them why

they are doing things. Whoever gets elected on Thursday week will take

charge at a difficult time. Hanging over every force is the need for

cuts. Police numbers are falling, morale is down, sick levels are up.

On Thursday 15th November, everybody living in England and

Wales outside London will have the right to vote for a police and

crime commissioners. It went down well at her party conference but

the Home Secretary's changes have not be welcomed outside the hall.

Earlier this year, police staged a show of anger and frustration. Tens

of thousands marched in London. Complaints were numerous but mostly

driven by the 20% cut in funding imposed by the Government. 600 came

up from Avon and Somerset. That is nearly as many officers as the

force is losing. In the last Labour government, police have prospered.

Numbers rose to record levels. In the age of austerity, they have

fallen back. It is not just the cuts that have hurt morale, so to

have plans to change pay and pensions. A bespectacled lawyer

armed only with a pen. Tom Winsor strikes fear into coppers. He has

just been appointed Chief Inspector of Constabulary after carrying out

two major reviews. They are controversial changes and they

include cutting the starting rate of pay, pushing back the retirement

age and brainy in the possibility of pay cuts for unfit officers. --

and bringing in the possibility. It has not gone down well. What Tom

Winsor is doing is contributing to a suppressed feeling of morale

because it forces this impression that individuals have that they are

not valued or appreciated, they are not literally valued through the

pay packet. A cross all ranks, there is discontent. The local

Police Federation say officers feel like they have been beaten and

robbed. We have the 20% budget cuts, the reviews on a policing. I think

that PCC will come in half way through everything going on and

they will have to deal with it. Government are spending millions on

scary adverts, trying to get people to vote and thousands is being

spent by candidates. What I am seeing in a lot of manifestos is so

am very bland statements about fighting crime, fighting the cuts.

The reality is most police and crime commissioners will have to

sit down after the election and work out how they are going to

solve the problem of fulfilling these promises when the police

resource cake is getting smaller and will continue to get smaller.

Theresa May was left in no doubt at this year's conference. Stand by

your vision! In it will be up to her newly elected proteges to see

if they can turn the she is into cheers. Police numbers are falling.

What are you going to get done? How can you do anything when the number

of people on the streets is falling? It is about the commission

element. It is additional budgets coming under the control of the

police and crime commissioner. It is engaging with the voluntary

sector and helping them. They have been helpful with bringing crime

figures down and bringing detection rates up. He people will be

knocking on your door, saying, I want a policeman. You will have to

say, we do not have the people. whole of the public service is

facing this. It is a reality. It is not about police on the beat only,

it is about -- is about officers being available. Sue Mountstevens,

are you satisfied you can do anything, given that the budget is

boring? I am going to make a difference. The real difference is

we need to target persistent offenders. -- is falling. That is

the highest problem. We cannot make a difference and the role of the

PCC will be to work together as a whole. -- we can make a difference.

Times are very tough. We know what a financial mess the country is in.

It is only right that every part of the public sector will have to take

its share of putting that right and getting us back on an even keel. We

can pull off a pretty neat trick here. We can get more for less. I

have a great deal of experience of business and public service. I

think we can close the difficult circle and get more for less.

are to be happy the force spends over �6 million a year on overtime?

In business, the systematic working of overtime is symptomatic of

managerial responsibility for so my straight answer is no match.

would argue against that. There has to be flexibility in overtime. We

do not decide to, as a police commissioner, about when someone is

murdered or raped and therefore that over time has to come in

because we have to follow that process through. You would keep the

overtime budget? That is too simple -- simplistic. When the situation

calls for it, of course we need all hands on deck. But the working of

Bovis -- systematic overtime on a regular basis his managerial

irresponsible. He lorry former policeman. What to do you think? --

you are a former policeman. I think Tom Winsor and Hutton have

demoralised the police force. They have taken away their feeling of

being required. I know the police are doing this but I want to do

everything in my power to make sure they are rewarded for the job they

do. Not many people get over time these days. You sign a contract a

new work when you work. It is 2% of the total budget. It is not right

to bring it up as a bland figure. It is not way you can do the most

significant change. A Avon and Somerset Police spend �60 million

on pensions every year. Very high figures. The employee contribution

is 12.7 million. There is hardly anyone in the 4th over 55. Can we

afford a force like that? -- in that the force. A pension is to be

organised by Parliament. The government decides on the pension.

It would be ridiculous there is one pension for Avon and Somerset and

another... We should be fighting from within it for change?

cannot change the contracts that exist, in my view. It is the reward

for the job they do. It seems they rages you should change that. We

have to think about how we can level at the balance. -- it seems

outrageous. It is about the future. We can't go on forever with this

great percentage. We have to take into account the Constabulary and

the police authority by dealing with cuts of 43 min him pounds over

three years. It is delivering more for less. -- �43 million. We have

heard morale, we saw the police that the demonstration, morale is

low. Is that something that bothers you? Of course it bothers me. The

only way we will get a result is with a well selected and well

organised force with a high morale. In you want more for less, that is

unlikely? We can work smarter. We can make more use of electronic

gadgets which will mean every individual officer will be able to

be much more productive. I believe great manager and a ship and

leadership is the key. -- great management. Many people are unclear

about what the job will be. Our reporter has been a daydreaming

about the role and what it would be like if he were elected.

So I got the job. Apart from having goals such as setting targets, the

budget and the ability to hire the Chief Constable, what else is there

to do to earn my �65,000 salary? I spent a few hours this morning at

police headquarters but that only took a few hours. I have checked

the handbook from the Home Office but that does not tell me much

about the role. I do know a man who has some ideas. I would say it is a

full-time job and you must treat it like that. It will be more and was

then you expect because the role is in police and crime commissioner

and the crime it is important. Policing is doing well in the

county. Crime is going down and public confidence is rising. But

you need to tackle the criminal justice side of things. It is a

full-time job. With no job description how will the

commissioner filled the diary? I wonder what the real life

candidates in Gloucestershire think they will be doing. If I am

representing their views so I have got to know what they think. I have

visited every corner of the county, listening to what people want from

their police force and in terms of their strategies. It would not be a

Monday to Friday job. You need to find out what people want. I would

spend a lot of time here, having briefings with the chief constable

and the police staff. There would be little time spent here in police

headquarters. It is out there with the public, carrying on the work we

have been doing, which is representing them and finding out

their views. There will be an element of going out a meeting

different organisations, meeting people, holding sessions with

different groups. That is important. There is no structure so it will be

seeing what the role brings and what people want. Gloucestershire's

candidates agree. It is about giving the public a voice. What to

do the public one? A I would think it is probably a good idea. A bit

of a shake-up. -- what to do the public want? If it is hard to say

whether this person will have enough experience. Not get rid of

any more community police officers. They do the job well. What people

want to see generally is police on the straight. They do not want to

see the cutbacks that are coming. Zero-tolerance on everything from

graffiti to throwing cigarettes out of windows. Everything. Everything

that starts right down here that needs -- that leads to larger crime.

I do not know what they are going to do. In my day in charge, I have

spoken to the public, met with the police and made some big decisions,

like appointing a chief constable. I agree the budget. And I said the

force's targets. It seems a this job will be what ever the

commissioner makes of it. One of these four people will be in charge.

It is a big job. It is a very big job and an important job. I have

been on thousands of doorsteps in the last few months and I can tell

you people want to be allowed to go about their business, day-by-day

without any fear or insecurity. What I can bring to that is a fresh

look at the police force and that he does the system to make sure

that happens. -- and the judicial system. People want to see more

police officers and less crime. That is not very difficult. We have

a cut. We have to take on board we have a �43 million cut. Damping is

going to get worse. Damping is the Government taking that some of the

money they should be allocated to Avon and Somerset. That will

increase because we are going to have the community safety fund

damping. We will have less money. We cannot just broke police

anywhere. We have to target specific places. -- we cannot just

go Road police anywhere. You want to target. You want money in

individual units. A lot of people will say, we want to see officers

on the beach. I you going to say, you cannot have them? -- on the

beat. They need to see officers when they need to see them. This is

not an instant thing, cutting crime. If we want to do that, the

advantages of this job, it is getting in touch with the public.

The rest of it is getting in touch with the rest of society. If we

want to cut crime, we have got to do something about education and do

something about the great amount of money we are spending on the wrong

things. Let me give you a hypothetical. Say the chief

constable comes to you and says, we have this lovely village, a few

murders but it is very quiet. We do not needed police station there.

You say, can I closer? What do you say? -- can I closed it? The it has

looked at the evidence. When police stations are being used once or

twice in 24 hours, you would not keep them open. A public will say

they want it open. But let us get the police to where the residents

are. We have gone through this process. I want an inquiry office.

If you have got a building open, Monday to Friday and There are one

or two people going in a day... is horses for courses. How will we

do a job in reducing crime and reduce infrastructure? In Bristol,

they are going to have drunk tanks on the weekend to deal with trunks.

It will save the pressure on the NHS. Is your view to facilitate

this all say, I do not want drunkenness on the streets of

Bristol? In it is about rehabilitation and reducing crime.

I would want to work with local authorities... I have chaired the

setting up of that and it is great. The police service have not paid

for this. We need to work together. Let us not fight our own battles

but buy them together. Let us take a look at some of the

other political stories of the week in our round-up.

Boris Johnson took some serious flack from a small group of

protestors in Bristol this week. He was here as a cheerleader for the

Tory candidates for Bristol Mayor and the Police and Crime

Commissioner. Many welcoming committees I have had, that was the

most... It shows there of people in this city who are crying out for

change. A blot on the landscape or a great

way of generating energy? It seems even the government cannot agree on

whether they love or hate wind turbines like this one in

Gloucestershire. There are proposals to build more in the area

but if the Tory Energy Minister gets his way all new plans will be

blocked. Three of our local Tories rebelled

in this week's vote on the EU budget. James Gray, Jack Lopresti

and Laurence Robertson were amongst 53 who defied their leader, voting

with Labour, calling for a real- terms cut in spending.

That Was the Week. That is all we have got time for. The programme

continues in London. Thank you to the candidates for Avon and

Somerset for joining us. There is a full list of all the candidates

standing in Wiltshire, Gloucestershire and Dorset on our

website. There is more information on how to vote and the views of

your candidates. You can hear more from the candidates on your local