17/06/2012 Sunday Politics Yorkshire and Lincolnshire


17/06/2012

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Hello, good afternoon. You are watching the Sunday Politics for

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Yorkshire and Lincolnshire. Coming up today:

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Why a senior Yorkshire Tory is fighting government plans to give

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the authorities more power to monitor our internet activity.

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And we find out why two of our councils have dropped costcutting

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Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1616 seconds

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Hello, good afternoon. You are watching the Sunday Politics for

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Yorkshire and Lincolnshire. Coming up today: why a senior Yorkshire

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Tory is fighting to give the authorities more power to monitor

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our internet activity. And we find out wide two of our

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councils have bend cost-cutting measures are to share a chief-

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executive. Our guest today is Meg Munn and

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Kris Hawkins. We're going to kick of with this snooping around where

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it the Government wants to give the authorities more power to keep an

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eye and as on the internet. Are you in favour of this? It is difficult

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to tell because they are complex. We need a balance between security

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and liberty. We know that there are worrying crimes whether it is

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internet crimes of child abuse or terrorism where we do need powers

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to be in place but equally, because the Government has not been clear

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about this, we have people worried about whether their privacy is

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going to be invaded. Kris, some Conservatives on the right are

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opposed to this idea, of weirdies stand? I think we have to do

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something. The last piece of legislation was 2006, it was the

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year before the iPhone came out. We now have over a billion people on

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Facebook and a huge increase in information over the internet.

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There are some really important issues around child-protection,

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fighting serious crime and defeating terrorism. This

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potentially adds another arm to the police's resources. Opposition to

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the bell is being led by the East Yorkshire-based Conservative David

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Davis. That some kit -- but some police officers say that it will be

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an important part in tackling online sex offenders.

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This is discreet and I would rather do it indoors. This raid carried

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out by Lincolnshire police this week was part of a national

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operation to crack down on those possessing indecent images of

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children. The Government wants to make it easier for up officers to

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monitor suspected offenders. They want to stay one step ahead of

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paedophiles. From my perspective as a police officer and an operation

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or reader I'm welcome any greater powers and increased options around

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this form of horrible criminality. As technology gets more

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sophisticated, the criminals themselves who shared these

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horrible images of children actually being abused, as they get

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better, we need to get better. proposed communications data bill

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would allow it the police and intelligence agencies to monitor

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our internet activity including e- mails and social networking as well

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as phone calls. Details would be stored for up to a year. However,

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authorities would only be able to access the nature of communication

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is not the content. Officials here at the Home Office say that

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accessing communications data is vital, not just for apprehending

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sex offenders, but also in the vast majority of terrorism cases. They

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denied these new proposals are snoopers' charter, but others

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disagree. The former shadow home secretary David Davis is a leading

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critic of the proposals. He has been taking part in an on-line

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question and answer section with Web users who are worried about

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their privacy. This gives a huge picture of people's lives. It is an

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intrusion of people's privacy and will not actually help catch

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tourism's -- terrorists at all. If you are at terrorist, you get round

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it with a pre-paid phone, using internet cafe, you use a proxy

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server. He used false credentials. This will gathered data on 60

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million innocent people, not catch criminals, and that is why I am

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against it. The proposals will be scrutinised by Parliament before

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legislation is introduced but already the battle lines have been

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drawn between those who believe any new law would help fight against

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crime and those who believe it is a licence to snoop.

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We have also been joined by James Baker from the No 2 IT campaign who

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is opposed to this bill. You heard that from a senior police officer

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in Lincolnshire. He says this new Bill will help them catch sex

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offenders, Heidi who argue against that? If it was just about sex

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offenders and tourists that would be one thing. If so, why does it

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allow it provisions for the Government to snoop on us. This

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isn't just a Bell about fighting crime at this is a Bill that will

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please millions of law-abiding citizens and the UK it under

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unprecedented levels of surveillance without a warrant.

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you heard there that this is not going to affect the content of e-

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mails. Police officers cannot read the content, it is about the

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communication and there are going and coming of those messages.

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can access that through another piece of legislation. What this

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bill includes is all of your browsing henge and -- history and

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anything that you've looked up. All of your information that we will be

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accessible. That will be for hundreds of public bodies including

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the food standards agency not just the police. Why do the food

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standards agency need to know what I'm saying on Facebook? The

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communications data includes all of their location of data. Every time

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you move about with your mobile phone the Government will be able

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to track where you are. To suggest that communications data isn't a

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problem is very misleading. You can tell a huge amount from it. You can

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build up a huge picture of people's lives. Technology is changing all

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the time, don't they it crime fighting bodies have to stay one

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step ahead? Nobody has been able to read every letter that you have

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sent to someone. So to suggest that any piece of technology requires

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this legislation is very misleading and what this Bill does his place

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those forms of communications and a new surveillance powers. So if you

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send a parcel now the Government will be able to snoop on that

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information. David Cameron said that we were in danger of living in

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a controlled state, why has he changed his mind? The Labour Party

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were talking about her central database where all this information

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was stored. At the moment most providers retain some of the

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information that we create. Most of the information it be great. What

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it there Government is suggesting, it is a draft bill by the way, that

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the information is retained for 12 months. And if someone wants to see

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the content of that they must go to the Home Secretary with the warrant

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and she must then sign that of to get it that access. There is huge

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amounts of data storage, it is about making sure that that data is

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secure, not controlled by the Government or the police, it is

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what the providers and it is at being asked to be retained the for

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12 months. Meg Munn, the Labour Government was criticised for

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trying to control many aspects of our lives. People do not want the

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Big Brother state, do they? No they do not. I think what we're seeing

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is the Conservative ministers are finding out that when they get into

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Government and get into these issues it is not quite as simple as

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David Cameron believed that in at 2009. It is a very complex issue

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and one that, quite rightly James is setting out, needs to be looked

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at properly. Parliamentary scrutiny of this is crucial. The key thing

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that we would all agree on is that people should not just be able to

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access this information. It should be on the basis of a warrant and

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that should have the proper judicial oversight. A James, how

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were you going to convince these MPs to back your campaign? Really

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why would ask MPs and everyone else is to look at the warrants. Who is

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signing of the warrants? Is that the Home Secretary or is it someone

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independent from the Government? What we have said is that you need

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magistrates and are just three there. The need to see whether it

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is proportionate and whether it is a terrorist or paedophile case or

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whether it is someone snooping into our private lives unnecessarily. It

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is very simple, while money to look at how the access the data and what

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permissions they have. interesting debate I suspect over

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the coming months on this one. In order to cope with tighter

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budgets the Government has been encouraging councils to share

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services. Many areas serve -- save taxpayers' money but in two

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councils in our area at the abandoning moves to share a chief-

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executive saying that the experiment has not worked.

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These made history years ago when they were operated jointly. They

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also shared at chief-executive and a team of the most senior and

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highest paid officers. But that between these two councils and that

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relationship has fallen apart. That is despite savings of well over a

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million pounds. The problem according to the leader of Richmond

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share council is that it was not clearly hammered out how they would

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do with their neighbours. politicians in our partner

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authority felt that we were spending -- he was spending along

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with his senior managers too much time attending to business over

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here in at Richmond Show. That is at the root of why we are at

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looking at some other arrangements for a shared services. It has been

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closely monitored here by think- tanks and pressure groups to seek

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shared services as a major tool to saving public money. They have to

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have a clear understanding of the division of hours. How many days as

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a chief-executive going to spend in each council. I think that has been

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their problem in North Yorkshire. Other councillors that were

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entering into these agreements will have to make sure that the

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necessary arrangements are in place to stop these deals collapsing

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completely. We started this in April last year. 100 miles south to

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Chesterfield. Hear those last lessons have been learned. These

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councils are meeting with the chief executive that they share. After

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one year of this they cannot understand why more councils are

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not going down this cost-saving route. I think people are not brave

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enough. I think they are frightened. It is a big step. It is a difficult

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decision to make. You have to take people with you and you have to

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entrust. People are frightened to go the extra mile. After the first

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year at we have achieved practically �1 million worth of

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savings. That is a million pounds that we are going to have to take

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from frontline services. Around two dozen smaller district councils

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around England and out sharing chief-executive and senior officers.

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That is fewer than might be expected with public spending so

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squeezed. Here in Derbyshire it is a move where everybody needs to

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know exactly what they're getting. Kris Hopkins, you are a former

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leader of Bradford Council, is it reasonable for more authorities to

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share back-office services? It is not as reasonable, it is absolutely

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essential. We should not just limited to councils either. Where

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it is appropriate I think NHS chief executives should share between

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councils also. There's a whole range of services that can be

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utilised with one chief-executive. The �1 million that they have saved

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that they were talking about there. When you try to restructure her

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daily services huge amounts of resources and less money is

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available. It is really important that you find savings there. Being

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clear about what you want to achieve and making sure that the

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individuals are accountable is really important. We have to

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explode those ways and I think it is working in one area and not

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someone else. I am sure they will explore why it has failed and the

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Wanderer dead. Cheeks executives earn much more money than most --

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chief executives. Some more than the Prime Minister. It is

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reasonable than? A what I think we saw their is whether the

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politicians at the top can work together. It might just be that

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those two areas were similar sorts of areas where it worked. I do

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wonder whether the change of leadership at politically at the

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top, if that were to happen, would be shared the same views. Or is

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something major happened in one area at what they council be happy

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to lose their chief-executive to work for a long time in another

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area. It is not straight forward but many things can be done. What

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we really have to look that is where there are proper communities

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of interest and for you can work together. I think Kris was talking

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about the NHS. That begs the question of why under the terrible

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reorganisation we got there we got more bodies with more leaders

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rather than bringing services together when it does make sense to

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have one leader. We will have to come back to that on another day.

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A let us get more news from the rest of the week now.

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Proposals to axe some of their Yorkshire regiments historic

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battalions are being described as at done deal by some of the

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region's MPs. Patrick Mercer says that their it cuts might be

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confirmed in early July. Calls are coming for a cross-party group to

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challenge the Defence Secretary over the cuts.

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More than 60 of his workers could lose their jobs in newly-privatised

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sections of Lincolnshire police. It comes just two months after 500 of

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his staff transferred to another area. Over the coming years I would

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be very surprised if there were not more job losses.

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And this rail link was politely received through gritted teeth by

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the Prime Minister. Well they at gut -- Government go-ahead well

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with the high-speed train? I grip over the enthusiastic endorsement

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at the that is important to get on board this high-speed rail

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revolution. A will come back to high-speed rail.

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First, Kris Hopkins, you are a former member of the army. The army

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cuts story, potentially a Yorkshire regiment losing its battalion, what

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you know about that? The Duke of Wellington's Regiment is the third

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Battalion. It is deployed in Afghanistan and have had some

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serious casualties. There is a lot of people at home are very

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concerned at this moment in time about the welfare of their loved

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ones. I think the speculation and the guesswork that has been picked

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out by certain individuals this week, I think, is fairly appalling.

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You mean you Conservative colleague. I think there is a range of can is

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derivative and other MPs who have spoken out. There are people

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leaving their lives on the line at the moment. There are people

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concerned about their loved ones. To put out this work and

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speculation about hunches about something that might happen in the

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future, that is not acceptable. I went to the defence secretary and

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specifically asked him if the third battalion has been targeted it is

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going to be axed. He said that no decision had been made about any

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unit in the British Army. So to put this into this arena when people

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are in such fearful situation for their loved ones at this moment. To

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talk about speculation, will it go? That is wrong. And I am fairly out

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raged about what has been said. Patrick Moser is not here to defend

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himself. Meg Munn, can you understand the need for cutbacks in

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the army? Of course every area of public service has had to be looked

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at. As you will know the Labour Party has had lots of concerns

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about the way the defence review was carried out in the way it is

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going forward. As Kris Wright be said this is not something that

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should be subject to speculation. It is not something that we want to

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make a political party football at all. The defence should come out

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and say exactly what is happening and what they expect to happen and

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be clear about it so that people know where they stand. This is a

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bit of a pattern where the information has not been picked out

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in the right way in the first place and what you then see is their

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Government running to catch up. That is not quite right. The

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Government has said that it will issue in weeks to come clear lines

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on which units will be removed and the numbers that will actually have

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to be removed. It is the guesswork now when people at busy fighting

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for at great cost at this moment in time. Those men are still extremely

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brave and they are risking their lives. It is wrong to speculate.

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that time we have left the high- speed train. The Prime Minister

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gave support this week by duty your question, Kris Hopkins. �32 billion

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is what we hear it will cost. Is it money well spent? There is a huge

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dependency on the public sector in the further and North. The way we

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change that is what better lines of communication and transport is one

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of those. At the end of the day, there are hundreds of people that

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are trying to get into a few seats. We're going to increase the

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capacity and ideally we are going to speed up the process. More to

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the point, will be spent a lot of money doing it which was under

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local businesses. Money well spent, neck? -- Meg? The governor needs to

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set out its overall transport policy. How are we and goods and

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services going to get around the country. It is not just about one

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area of Transport it is about looking at all of them is. There in

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a mess around airports. People need to know so that they can plan their

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