16/12/2012 Sunday Politics Yorkshire and Lincolnshire

In Yorkshire: We will -- investigate why the number of

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2146 seconds

children in care has risen to You're watching the Sunday Politics

Yorkshire and Lincolnshire. Coming up: We investigate why the number

of children in care is at record level as across Yorkshire.

Plus, we will be looking at the controversial use of unmanned drone

aircraft, which will soon be controlled from a Lincolnshire

airbase. Her guests are Kris Hopkins, the

Tory MP for Keith Lee, the Diana Johnson Labour MP for Hull North.

What has been a highlight of the week for you? It was Prime

Minister's Question Time, when Ed Miliband expose that the cuts the

Government are going to make to benefits will affect 60% of people

in work. So, the people who get tax credits for women on maternity

leave. That was the highlight for me. Exposing what the Government

are doing. What has caught your eye, Kris Hopkins? The biggest fall in

unemployment in over a decade, 2001 was the last time that more than

82,000 people were back in employment. That is fantastic.

First, figures obtained by the Sunday Politics Yorkshire and

Lincolnshire reveal that there are more children in care across the

region than ever before. We have discovered an average increase in

15% over the past five years. One senior social worker has told us

staff are under too much pressure because of so many high-profile

cases where they got it wrong in the past. James Vincent has the

support. Departments are stretched and

social workers are stressed. There is a fear culture. Will be be the

next Baby P? Baby P died in 2007 after social

workers in Haringey failed to detect the severe physical abuse of

the 17 month-old child. Two years later, at Edlington, two boys under

supervision by soap -- social workers tortured and left for dead

two other children. The fear of getting it wrong again is putting

pressure on the people keeping children say.

There are now 1,000 more children in care in Yorkshire, with the

biggest rises in could Cleese, your car and called a deal. Is this down

to the pressure on social workers or the fear of becoming the next

Baby P? Or is it just that more children need to be looked after?

We're being told it is all three. The first thing is, how do I keep

the child alive? What job have I got to do to keep this child alive?

And identify where the danger is, and the danger is very often from

the parents, from those known to the children. Prisca version by

local authorities after the Baby P Case played a part. But there have

also been reduced in cases more rigorously, so children who have

been drifting in neglect for situated -- neglectful situations

for years are being helped more quickly. That has increased the

number of cases social workers are looking at. We spoke to one of them

who did not want herself for counsel to be identified, so words

are being spoken by an actor. She laid bare the challenges of

child protection in Yorkshire. Experience social workers can hold

30 plus complex cases. You absolutely double all the time. If

I am truthful about this, it is extremely busy. It have a very

pressurised environment. Social workers are so overworked there is

often only cause to respond to crisis. It is a crisis response led

service at the moment. The pressure is immense. The biggest rise in

care has come in the town that has had the most scrutiny over his

children services over the past couple of years, Doncaster. The

number of children in care has risen by 16% and it is costing them

money. Doncaster council's children services department has overspent

by �8 million this year alone. are striving to get better value

for money. We have had too many children in residential placements

and out of but. We believe generally the best place for

children is in a family environment. We have to reduce the caseload, it

is an issue in Doncaster. We have too many social workers that have

high caseloads. We're going to invest in recruiting more social

workers. All councils would say the welfare of the child is the most

important thing, not how much it cost. But some social workers think

the money can be a factor. Particularly if you are looking at

me in a child into residential care, that is a very expensive package of

care. It is not just about the cost, but the cost is significant. Most

councils are struggling to recruit social workers, and pressures

continue there is a worry that fewer people will want to carry on

in the job. James Vincent with a report. Diana

Johnson, how do you explain this huge rise in the number of care in

recent years? In your package it was identified there is a number of

reasons. Perhaps now social workers want to make sure that they are

doing everything to protect a child if they feel they are at risk.

Perhaps they are taking more children into care. I want to pay

tribute to the work of the social workers because we ask them to do a

difficult job, and often we do not know about the good work they do,

only when things go wrong. My big concern about all of this is local

authorities been under enormous pressure with the funding cuts from

central government, and ultimately that means social workers and

children, and what we asked -- what we are asking so sure workers to do

is at risk. Are you happy that the local authorities have the budget

to deal with these growing number of cases? I agree with what has

been said for starters. The key thing is that the public demand

that the children are cared for and looked after. I have to say, that

being the Chair of Social Services in Bradford, I have got massive

admiration for those people who worked extremely hard. This is not

a job, it is a vocation. It is not about the money, it is about people

genuinely caring and wanting to do the best. It is up to councils to

make this a priority. There will be other things they can make choices

about not spending money on, and if they believe that the care of those

children is at risk because of lack of resources, they need to make

those leadership choice is. Social workers say they are juggling up to

30 cases at any time. That is a real problem. It is. I do not think

it is new. There have been a number of key cases which has a greater

burden on social services. There is a massive issue about recruitment,

training and attention for councils as well, which need to be looked at

and how it is promoted. The key thing about it for me is that there

are going to make choices. In the case of Bradford, they have half a

billion pounds spent their on a whole range of services. That is up

to the chief executives to make the right call about the resources to.

I do not think that you can completely say it is down to local

authorities. In my own counsel, we are facing �163.50 per head cuts in

the Budget this year. If you compare that to somewhere like West

Dorset, they are about �2 per head cut. The money that is available to

local councils, that is a real issue for government and the

Conservatives and Liberal Democrat. They're making hour bid

announcement on council funding. Yes, if you compare North and South

Yorkshire, there would be other variations. I think the thing for

me is that, in Bradford, we recognised it was costing �4,000 a

week to have a child looked after in care, and we had to send an

outside the district, so be invested in five new children's

homes, making sure we got promotion -- provision to look after those

children. That is not the ideal solution but it is important that

you invest capital and resources long-term, not just knee-jerk

response is. You need to be invested and supporting parents

early on. That is not happening. Let us move on, because we are told

they play an important role in the so-called War on Terror, but the

use of unmanned aerial vehicles, or drones, is coming under scrutiny

To the west there are -- there are provisions remained used to cut out

the cancer of extremism, to others their indiscriminate and illegal.

Now the British courts are being asked if those operating unmanned

drones are complicit in the murder of innocents.

When you have over 100, possibly 150 children who have died, the

argument falls apart. -- the argument falls apart that those

killed are militant. There used by the US and the UK to

strike targets in countries like Pakistan. To the increasing anger

of many, they say civilians are being killed. Papers filed with the

High Court in London claimed that the British intelligence services

could be complicit in what opponents say as murder. This

Bradford-based solicitor is involved in the anti drone campaign.

The long-term aim has to be to hold the government to account if

civilians are killed overseas. It is only fair and it is only right

and more will that those people have some sort of access to justice.

Otherwise we have a system where we have children, and women killed in

another part of the world due to the action of civilians in this

country, and there is no accountability.

Men with help in Yorkshire, one of the largest spy bases. There is

evidence the base uses its use cheap eavesdropping capacity -- its

future eavesdropping capacity and then deploy his drawings. This is

home to a new squadron which will soon be operating drones abroad.

Personnel working here will be the first drawn operators based in the

UK. The new legal challenge centres on whether intelligence gathered in

the UK was passed to the US, which then used it to plan and drawn

attack in Pakistan, in which civilians were killed. Neither

unitard involved in the case but there are those who say that they

could be impacted by the outcome. The impact on the staff here and at

Waddington, who will be remotely controlling British Joan -- British

drones in Afghanistan issued because it deals with the moral and

ethical implications of whether the strikes can be justified and what

process we can have to ensure that war crimes are not being committed.

There is public and political pressure on the US and UK

governments over the use of drones. Earlier this year members of the

Pakistani community in Bradford marched against them. The United

Nations is going to exam in their use.

There are those who say that drones keep a safe at night. I hear the

argument that civilian loss of life is unacceptable, but that is a fact.

You cannot change that. If we were doing this 20 years ago, to get to

the same people mean enough harm, he would have had far less waste to

do it, so it would have been more in terms of loss of life.

Drones have become a symbol of moral questions raised by a warfare,

questions over whether the collateral damage as murder or

whether sometimes the end justifies the means.

Chris, can you understand why many people in Bradford and he's late R

Anglian -- angry about the dawn attack? -- the drone attacks?

has issued a bout of misinformation about what is going on. There are

no deployments of unmanned vehicles outside the Afghan theatre. They

are all in Afghanistan, none in Pakistan. That is a fact. There are

two different types. One vehicle excise surveillance and trips on

the ground, and another one can deploy weapons. There are something

like 360 deployments of munitions on to specific targets which were a

threat to our allies and forces of which there has only been one event

in which civilians were injured. That is when a vehicle full of high

explosives was hit, and two insurgents were killed, and four

other individuals were killed. That is very sad, but the idea that 150

children have been killed by British forces, that they are out

of control,... Some would say the American forces and British

intelligence officers being complacent. There are claims of

that but there is no evidence. I have as robust questions of the

ministers I serve, and I have no evidence. Diana Johnson, does it

bother you that six times as many drawn attacks have been launched by

President Obama and President Bush? President Obama takes the view that

he is in a state of conflict with Al-Qaeda, and as I understand it in

northern Pakistan where the drawn attacks have taken place is where

the intelligence led him to believe that Al-Qaeda are operating and

training, and more importantly, are getting prepared to come to the

streets in this country to cause terrorist attacks. I agree with

what Chris said about loss of civilian life which is something

that we all did read. I know the military do their very best to

ensure that their attacks are pinpointed and they use the best

intelligence they can. It is incredibly sad when civilians lose

their lives. Human rights lawyer say that military personnel should

be held to account for what has been happening in Pakistan. Do you

fear that we could get RAF personnel in court? There is no

deployment of British forces outside of the Afghan theatre.

Every single officer out there, they have to comply with the Geneva

Convention. There is a lawyer present on every single based which

can be called in, so if there is any question about the targets,

they get past for advice. I am very confident we are doing the right

thing, saving British lives on supporting allies. Let us get more

of the political news. Len Tingle has the round-up and 60 seconds.

Yorkshire is the Tour de France winner. It will start here in 2014,

and Yorkshire tourism bosses say hundreds of thousands of fans will

come to watch it. It is a great boost to the economy at this stage.

It will be where it -- very well can.

Controversially, our own government sports minister back Scotland to

win it. Humberside's new police

commissioner appoints fellow Conservative councillor as his

�45,000 a year deputy. Lincolnshire County Council has

become the first local authority to call for a referendum on Britain's

membership than the EU. They called on the Prime Minister to hold it in

24 team. Threatened legal action has started

in a hikes -- the High Court over last summer's GCSEs. The council

says the examination board unfairly demanded higher marks for the

grades awarded. Diana, in your shadow Police

Minister role, I should ask you about cronyism involving police

commissioners. If John Prescott had won the election in Humberside, he

would have to have appointed a deputy. I do not know who he would

have appointed, but he would have had a good choice of people he

could have appointed. So it would have been balanced if it was a

politician and someone with practical police knowledge, but

Humberside has got two local authority councillors from the same

local authority, two white men. It might have been better to have a

balanced ticket, perhaps someone from the south of the Humber,

summoned with policing experience, or working with victims. It is very

strange, two local council this. Do you worry about the spiralling

costs of Police and Crime Commissioners? They have got

officers, deputies and all the trimmings that go with it.

might have to come to terms with a lap -- the fact you lost. You put

your best man up but he lost. did when first past the post, which

is what most people accept is the usual way we win elections.

Great news that the Tour de France is coming to Yorkshire in 2014.

Have you heard that the Sports Minister backed the Scottish bid?

did not know that, it is a great part of the Union, but after a

great summer of sport, the idea we have more to come, and in Yorkshire

we will have some of the most amazing individuals, and clean

cycling. Hopefully Mr Williams will -- Bradley Wiggins will be out

winning for us again. When we had the Olympic torch coming through

the county, that was great. But also, I think we need to have

things like the Green Investment Bank. Why is that not in Yorkshire?

That has gone to Edinburgh and London. We should have had a branch

of that in the orchard area. Big government departments and

organisations to, please. I want to touch and a marriage, which has had

a few interesting ripples in Europe party. -- I want to touch on gay

marriage. I am a very strong supporter of it. I think it is the

right thing to do. Society has moved on, and we need to offer

marriage to everyone out there. We have put some safeguards in place

proposing the bill, and of course there will be tensions, and some

very interesting debates, but it is the right thing to do. Diana, you

are confident that your views consistent with your constituents

question markets, and I could -- I agree with what Chris has said, if

two people want to have a loving relationship, they should be

allowed to get married. I am not happy about the Church of England

approach, because it was not discussed with the Church of

England before that was announced. It is that time of the year again.

Can I hear the music? It is the last programme of 2012 so

we thought it would be right for you to give us your Christmas

message. To my constituents, a very peaceful

and prosperous new year, and to the viewers as well. One of your guests

can't be here today, we are very sad that George could not join us.

George Galloway. If he does not get you, mayor I wish him a very happy

Easter! I have some breaking news that the coalition have had to

cancel the nativity play this year because they have not been able to

find three wise men. Alongside that I want to wish everyone a very

Happy Christmas and a great 2013. I would like George Galloway to

reflect on the fact that he won the award of sexist of the year, so

perhaps we will talk about that next time. He was washing his hair