21/04/2013 Sunday Politics Yorkshire and Lincolnshire


21/04/2013

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And in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire: How will voters react to an MP's

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proposal for a card to stop benefits claimants spending money on alcohol

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Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2064 seconds

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You were watching the Sunday politics for Yorkshire and

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Lincolnshire. Coming up today, which you send your child at for heart

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surgery at Leeds General Infirmary? As the legal wrangle over the unit's

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future takes a new twist, we speak to the parents who have very

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different views on the safety of the heart centre. It is a gold standard

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unit and it has been proven to be sustainable. I think it is critical

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that something has got to change and the data is a key thing.

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Plus, find out how voters react to the plans for a welfare card which

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would stop then if it's claimants spending money on alcohol and

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cigarettes. Stewart Andrew, if I can start with

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you, we know that NHS England is appealing against the High Court

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ruling which six queues the future -- which would secure the future of

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the children's heart unit. There is consensus right across the country

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now with clinicians and all politicians that what we really need

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is to get to a final decision on where these heart units are going to

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be. All this is going to do is delay the reporting of the Independent

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reconfiguration panel's report, which will give the automatic that

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hunchback alternate decision. -- which will give the ultimate

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decision. Do you accept the original

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principles of the review, which found that children's heart surgery

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is better served by fewer, better dedicated centres? You could say

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that about any surgery. I remember reading years ago that if you needed

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cancer surgery then going to the rate hospital with the rate surgeon

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would increase your chances of survival by about 10%. But can we

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trust any of the statistics that have been going around for months

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now. That is the greater problem. This week the Health Secretary

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defended the decision to temporarily to spend -- suspend children's heart

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surgery in Leeds. That followed detail which appear to show

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mortality rates which were more than twice the national average.

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Operations have no resumed, but some are still questioning patient safety

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at the unit. Welcome to NHS England's health

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quarters -- headquarters in Leeds. The Sager has kept on rolling. This

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falling out goes back to the safe and sustainable review which found

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that children's heart operations should be made from Leeds to

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Newcastle but this decision was found to be unlawful by the High

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Court. Data was then presented which was found to be flawed. Surgery was

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suspended but resumed last week. A decision which was questioned by Sir

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Roger, who said he would not send his own daughter first surgery at

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the hospital. Kerry Singleton is from North Yorkshire, her

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seven-year-old daughter is due for more treatment. She says she does

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not need to rely on data, she trusts the doctors at the centre. It comes

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with the territory. The surgeons are not God. They do a fantastic job. I

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cannot praise Leeds enough. You have everything under one roof. We have

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one of the largest population densities outside of London and it

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is absolutely fantastic. Meanwhile, Michelle from South

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Yorkshire has serious concerns. She was unhappy with the cure that her

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daughter received and said that parents need more statistics.

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data as a key thing. I had no idea how you rent a half ago -- a year

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and a half ago, that there was data for me to look at, for example about

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where transplants are done. I did not know that this information was

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available. Parents have to be given more information, it has to be a

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clear, transparent process. Where does this leave patient

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safety? Crucially, for children being treated here now and in the

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future. A paediatric cardiologist at the

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unit says that he fears that patient safety could come second to dealing

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with detail. People in other units, we have had quite a bit of support

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from them, they tell us things like, you have really been put

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through the ringer on this one. They seem to be coming at you again and

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again. They have shown that your service is safe, that your results

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are no different from anywhere else in the country. And yet they still

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come at you. It makes people a bit nervous. Is this the future? It does

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distract from patient care. If you spend a lot of time providing data

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for a group that is coming into the cat you, that is time that you could

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be focusing on improving patient care in the hospital.

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The story has gone right to the top, with Jeremy Hunt backing the

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decision to bring any concerns for about the unit. You said it was

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wrong to speak out against the servers publicly. But there are very

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small children are facing very big operations and the unit is still not

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certain about its future. The latest twist is NHS England's decision to

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appeal the decision. What do you say to parents who have

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lost confidence in children's heart surgery at Leeds General Infirmary?

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First, I would say that I would completely understand when you see

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all of this going on in the media, you must have a million questions in

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your mind. I sympathise with how difficult it must be. When you look

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at the evidence, they have had a vigorous process over this last

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fortnight of checks and balances. Eminent surgeons have been there

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looking at everything that they have been doing, and they have been found

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to be a safe unit. But it still has the highest mortality rate in the

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country. The figures are not ready yet. They do not have the highest in

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the country, there is this funnel of acceptability. But there are other

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units like older here in Liverpool but also the, and it is because of

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the tapes of operations that are doing. Because of all of the work

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that has gone on there, all of the checks and balances, it is deemed to

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be a safe unit. It is only fear to the parents that the normal house

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safety unit is that they are sending their children to.

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Would you take your children first surgery at Leeds with baby safe at

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Newcastle? I should not add to that question. Those who have done so in

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the last week or so have been fundamentally wrong in my view. But

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we have been talking about the unit being scrutinised. But it does

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improve things. I did not know that statistics were around, I should be

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able to locate them and find out how good it is. That what we have. But

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we have had in the last couple of weeks is something that is wholly

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wrong, it has left parents hanging in the air. What we need to get to

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do now is to get back to surgery in the weeds unit nine than to step up

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from where we are now at the moment -- the Leeds unit. The Leeds unit is

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safe for people. But at Mid Staffordshire they were chasing

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targets in compiling data. Patients were neglected and some died under

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horrible circumstances. I agree entirely with that. Many doctors and

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nurses are going through the regulation body because of that. But

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I remember what happened at Bristol. They did not stop the surgery. But

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they sent someone in to find out what had happened. What you need to

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do is to work on these things. This erratic situation that we have had,

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not just in terms of the stopping and starting of surgery, but the

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potential for the court case to go on and on is not good for the Leeds

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unit and it is not good for parents. The cardiologist seemed to suggest

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that surgeons not just in Leeds, but in hospitals around the country, I

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know going to be much more cautious with your surgery because of the

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rollover this data. I think that that is inevitably true. I have

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already had phone calls from surgeons who are getting worried.

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They do not want to head the data, but they are worried that it will be

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used responsibly. This data has been incomplete, it has not had checks

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and balances on it. If one piece of data related to the child, the whole

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child was taken out of the equation, so of course there will be

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problems with that. To suspend surgery on the basis of weak

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information like that is responsible. That is why it needs to

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be looked at. NHS England is ultimately a government body. He

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will stand in the next election as a supporter of the current government.

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If the unit does not stay open, can you still represent your

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government? This campaign has had no party politics in it whatsoever. It

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has been cross-party and cross region. This was an independent

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review that was set up in 2008. What we are seeing is that the

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recommendations that were made a wrong because we have got all of the

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children's services under one refuelling Yorkshire and we are

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newly at the 400 a year. We are going to have to move on to

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another topic. The political row over the biggest shake-up of welfare

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this decade continues to gather pace. This month has seen the

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introduction of a raft of measures designed to change the benefits

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bill. Some claim that the government should be going further that is to

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put a serious dent in the dosh that it is doling out.

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Once a lorry driver, Anthony Daniels had horrific damage to his back at

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work 12 years ago, so the benefits agency has been paying the rent for

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his specially adapted family home. But now he says he has to move

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because under new rules the family has too many bedrooms and must

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contribute �30 a week, that is 21% of their income. There are for

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adults, and we have a clearer common two nights a week. Under the new

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legislation the government says we are entitled to four bedrooms.

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Anthony has joined those in social housing who say that they now must

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move into smaller homes to avoid having their benefits cut. The

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government says that that was part of that strategy to free big homes

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for larger families. But there is a problem. Housing agencies there are

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simply not enough properties arranged to allow it to happen. We

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are prioritising those properties which are becoming empty for those

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who are seeing, I cannot afford to pay this rent, can you move me? If

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we had to be housed 300 people ourselves, that would take us 20 or

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30 years. We could not do it. The housing association here in the

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centre of Bradford believes that over 20% of its tenants could now

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find themselves paying rent for the first time even though their incomes

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have not changed at all. It is already making provision for people

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who will not be able to pay their rent. It believes that around 8% of

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those affected will be in that position.

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Stopping using benefits to pay for spear bedrooms is backed by the SNP.

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But he says that he wants more restrictions -- backed by this MP.

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Do you think it is right for a government to restrict what people

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can spend their benefits on? Yes. I have never smoked and I have worked

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all of my life and I think lotteries like smoking and drinking, if you

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can go out to work and pay for that, that is fine. Do you think that

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would help people have more faith in the welfare state and would actually

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dispel a lot of the ideas that people have of people losing about

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on benefits? I am sure it would. cannot dictate how people live on

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their own on their money. As long as it does not sacrifice other

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household roles that are important, then you should not control it.

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It is not government policy to do this, but some say that they are

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preparing appeals to the European Court of human rights and some of

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the changes. I do not think it is in danger of

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becoming government policy any time soon, but is there an argument for

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limiting what people can spend their welfare money on? Absolutely not. I

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would be the last person to encourage anyone to spend any money

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on cigarettes, but we have to get some context into all of this. Alex

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is off the wall in my view. You have seen the size of him, he did not

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mention fatty foods. If he ends up with an overweight illness, we will

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be paying money for him to go into hospital. They ought to watch what

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he is seeing in these areas. He is saying we should penalise people

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because they are not at work and our own state benefit. We have had

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enough of that. We need some reasonable and sensible discussion

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about this. Wait until Alex sees you in the

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chamber and house of commons this week, it will be interesting. What

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do you make of these proposals, that people should have a welfare card to

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stop them spending money on beer and fags. We have discussed this at

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length. I can understand where he is coming from but I do not personally

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support the wall principle. What we need is all sorts of ideas. It is

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absolutely right that we had this debate. The debate about welfare is

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long overdue. For too long it has come away from what was originally

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intended. When it was originally set up, it said that the benefits system

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should not hinder people in terms of advancement once they get a job.

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That is why we have brought in the at �26,000, because we need to have

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an incentive for going to work. For some people the benefit system has

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meant that they have been trapped on benefits . It is right that we bring

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in this and it is actually weakly supported. Labour does not support

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the benefits. What do you say to people in your constituency to see

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-- who say, why am I working to support those who cannot? They might

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end up in a situation where they have a severe disability and they

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cannot work. We look at what has happened with unemployment in this

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region this week. Another 11,000 people have joined the dole queue.

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We have the second highest unemployment rate in the UK at the

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moment. We need to helping people -- we need to help people get into

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work. But the opinion polls show that many people do want tough

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action on this issue. That idea that the Chancellor of the Exchequer

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hints that what happened in Derby a few months ago is related to the

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person being on state benefit, I find that distasteful. If we want to

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have an open debate about people and state benefit, I am happy to do

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that. It is not that long ago that the former Conservative government

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was seen to former coalminers in my constituency, take early retirement

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at the age of 50. They wanted to hate people from unemployment

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figures. How do you respond to that? We have seen that 1 million extra

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jobs in the private sector. The Labour Party was saying that we

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would never be able to create them when we were having to scale back on

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public sector jobs, but we have managed to do that. We need to also

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make sure that there is an incentive for people to go out to work. I have

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many people in my constituency who are on low incomes and easy to me,

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�26,000, I would love to be able to take that home with me and your from

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the work that I do. We have to make it an incentive for people to go to

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work and reward those people who go to work. The benefit system need to

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be there -- needs to be there. I have been on benefits myself, I know

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it is not easy. But if we do not bring in these changes we will have

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a bigger problem. We take a look at some more of the

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week's News now in our 62nd round -- 60 seconds round-up. It is almost

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30 years since the miners strike, but the anger against Margaret

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Thatcher has not dimmed. 2000 turned out to celebrate the death of the

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women they blame for destroying their communities. We have waited a

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long time for this. Miners born and bred. We will always stick

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together. But others had an entirely different view. Many travelled from

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Yorkshire and Lincolnshire to pay their respects in person.

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certainly have not seen anything better since she finished. I have

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seen some of my constituents come down to pay their own tribute.

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Unemployment is up again, figures from least this week show that one

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in ten people in Yorkshire are out of work, making it the second worst

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blackspot in the country with youth unemployment and major cause for

:55:48.:55:58.
:55:58.:55:59.

concern. It is really difficult, the result of competition out there.

:55:59.:56:04.

What do you make of people burning effigies of Margaret Thatcher in

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Yorkshire? Is that acceptable? feel that a lot of that has been

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deluxe tasteful. But I understand where that is coming from -- been

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distasteful. I represented several coal mining communities and one by

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one the closed. Little happens between the closures and the

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bringing in of the new government. She did sky the coal-mining

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community, I have to say. She was not on her own. I do not blame her

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for ever thing that happened in 1984 and 1985. Whilst a lot of it is

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distasteful, you have to take into account what happened when the coal

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mines closed as something that scarred young people for many years.

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Companies will look at those scenes and think, why should we invest the?

:57:02.:57:10.

People might be put off. We can invest. There are massive amounts of

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work now. If it was not for the Labour government is nothing would

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have happened there. It did not happen for years when the Tories got

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it. -- got in. People will come here to work if we leave the ground for

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them to do so. Did you go to Margaret Thatcher 's funeral, did

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you shed a tear? I did go to her funeral and I did find it

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emotional, I have no shame in seeing that. Margaret Thatcher was not on

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her own. More pits closed under Wilson. The miners, I am afraid,

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work early lead by Arthur Scargill. To blame all a bit on Margaret

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Thatcher is completely unacceptable. -- to blame all of it on Margaret

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Thatcher. You could use the crowds from inside cheering and clapping in

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recognition of one of the greatest Prime Minister is that this country

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has ever had. Do you think that that was sheared by your constituents in

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Pudsey? Probably yes. You have a lot to learn from

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Margaret Thatcher. She won three elections. None of that coalition

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business around. Here's here. Tony Blair won three elections as well.

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Hope the state will not be forking out the money that they have done in

:58:36.:58:41.

the last week. Going back to the point, it is distasteful to be

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