22/09/2013 Sunday Politics Yorkshire and Lincolnshire

the Pennines. The best of the sunshine through the afternoon.

Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Ed

Morning, folks. Welcome to the rest of the Labour

Morning, folks. Welcome to the galore. But as a Sunday Politics

poll finds a third of his own councillors don't think he's doing a

good job, will that be enough to steady the Labour ship?

Back in Westminster, they're partying like it's 2006, as Damian

McBride's memoirs re-ignite the Blair-Brown wars. Alastair Campbell

will tell us why he is sickened by the former Brown spin doctor.

And speaking of political infighting, Conservative Party

Chairman Grant Shapps will give his response to the rampant Tory-bashing

at the Lib Dem Conference And And in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire:

The glowing problem of loneliness. Research finds that more and more

people are over the two thirds of the ethnic

minority vote but now stands accused of institutional racism. Are they

right? With me, the best and the brightest political panel in the

business. Isabel Hardman, Janan be tweeting like demented Damians

throughout the programme. First today, scrapping the bedroom tax.

Universal childcare for primary school kids. More apprenticeships.

Labour Conference only begins in earnest today, but the policy and

spending commitments are coming according to the Labour leader's

critics. He's been out and about this morning and told Andrew Marr

that he knew it was going to be this morning and told Andrew Marr

It is about a party that lost office three years ago. We are trying to be

a one term opposition. That is tough. I believe it is a fight that

we can win and I am up for that fight. The stakes are so high for

young people who want a job, for people whose living standards are

being squeezed. For people who think that this is not good enough for

Britain. So what do key Labour Party activists - its councillors - think

about the direction Mr Miliband activists - its councillors - think

taking their party? Adam Fleming is in Brighton at the Party Conference

with all the details of our latest exclusive Sunday Politics survey.

conference set. Let us unwrap them. With the help of an opinion poll we

surveyed 1350 Labour councillors across England and Wales. We wanted

to find out what they think as Labour gathers for its conference.

The Labour leader warmed up for Labour gathers for its conference.

week by taking to his soap box in Brighton city centre. It is great

week by taking to his soap box in councillors said they did not think

Ed Miliband was doing a good job as leader. 30% said they thought the

party would have a better chance if next election. You will see more of

Ed Miliband as we run-up to general election. He has been in the job for

three years! Now it is crunch time. The other Ed, Ed Balls, was disliked

by roughly one third of the party as well. Ed Balls is not a pop your

man. He says things and he speaks his mind. -- not a popular man.

diplomatic. Sadly Ed Balls did not seem to be that bothered about our

survey. Over at a conference centre When it comes to relations with

trade unions, the majority of Labour councillors thought things were

absolutely fine. Just 9% thought things with the unions were a little

bit too close. Tricky because Ed Miliband want to loosen the link.

The shadow environment secretary arrived in Brighton ride bicycle

from London to raise money for councillors what they would do if

the next election results in a hung parliament, just over half said

the next election results in a hung would tell the lid Dems to get on

their bikes. We would never say would tell the lid Dems to get on

to going into coalition. It gives us the chance to be in government and

Dems? I always treat them with courtesy. And the parties admitted

that perhaps they had opened the door to too many immigrants. It

that perhaps they had opened the our survey Labour councillors of

warming the felt that immigration We're now joined by the Shadow Chief

Secretary to the Treasury, Rachel Reeves. Good morning. Let us start

with Ed Miliband. Is it true that the team insisted that he be called

the leader? I just call him Ed and I think the rest of the Shadow Cabinet

do. Do you welcome working for a leader that says he is winning back

socialism? We are a democratic important thing is that we have

socialism? We are a democratic policies that will improve people 's

lives and tackle the cost of living crisis facing so many families.

Policies like expanding childcare, offering more apprenticeships, all

policies that I think the country are calling out for after three

years of a flat-lining economy and seeing prices rise faster than

years of a flat-lining economy and Minister. I think that is the most

important thing. So it is OK now to risk their to the Labour Party again

as the Socialist party? The clue is in the name, we stand up for working

people. You are socialist party according to the leader. We have

always been the Labour Party, that is our name and we stand up for

working people, not the privileged few like this government with their

tax cuts for millionaires. Those are privileged few. The Labour Party is

about helping everyone in Britain, all families. Interesting that your

run don't use the word socialist. In our survey one third of Labour

councillors said Ed Miliband was not doing a good job as leader. If he

councillors, who can he convince? Well you could say that two thirds

of councillors think that he is Well you could say that two thirds

right leader. But these are Labour councillors. The overall majority of

Labour councillors think that he is doing a good job. What matters is

the results on election day. Two thirds of councillors think that he

is doing a good job. That us see what they say at the end of this

with Labour Party people and will also resonate with the British

public. Policies like expanding apprenticeships, giving a break

public. Policies like expanding struggling. I think people will

public. Policies like expanding what kind of a leader that he is.

Well he has a mountain to climb among all voters. Let me ask the

question. Just 12% see him as a Prime Minister in waiting, just

question. Just 12% see him as a see him as a natural leader. Why? If

question. Just 12% see him as a you look at the overall opinion

polls, we are consistently ahead in those polls. It is hard being leader

demonstrate how you would be Prime Minister. By nature you are in

opposition. But he has taken on Rupert Murdoch and the press barons.

That is strong leadership, standing up to the vast majority. If you

That is strong leadership, standing at his reforms to our relationship

with the trade unions, strengthening ties with individual members. I

think that he is a strong leader making the right decisions. If that

is the case, why has the Labour making the right decisions. If that

gone from 14 points one year ago to at most four points now. What went

are six or eight points ahead in the consistently ahead. It looks as

are six or eight points ahead in the we would get an overall majority if

there was an election tomorrow. we would get an overall majority if

we have more work to do to convince more people to vote for Labour.

we have more work to do to convince this is a historic challenge, to be

a one term Labour opposition. I this is a historic challenge, to be

a one term Labour opposition. I believe that Ed Miliband will be the

next Labour Prime Minister and will be an excellent Prime Minister. The

big policy announcement today is the guaranteed childcare for all primary

school children. How much will that government, they ring fenced money

after-school and breakfast clubs. We think that money should be ring

fenced again. How much will it cost? We are saying that schools

within their budgets should be able to provide that. At the moment they

can charge for children to come to provide that. At the moment they

their first clubs. But this is a additional money. As it was under

the last Labour government it will be about ring fencing money because

we think that this is a priority. This is something that the schools

should do. You cannot ring fenced money you do not have. You saying

schoolchild from eight o'clock in the morning until six o'clock at

schoolchild from eight o'clock in night and it will not cost any more

money in the last Labour government. night and it will not cost any more

money in the last Labour government. That money is gone! It has not gone.

It is about priorities and we are saying that it should be a priority

where is the money being spent now that you would take it from? If

where is the money being spent now look at some of the things that

where is the money being spent now government is doing, building free

schools in areas where there are already enough. That is capital

spending. We are ring fencing that priorities. We had the ring fence

when we were in government. It would be reintroduced so that schools

when we were in government. It would to offer that wraparound care. Of

course schools can charge a small to offer that wraparound care. Of

fee for their breakfast clubs and after-school DVDs. But the important

thing is that provision is there for parents going out to work. Ed Balls

and Ed Miliband are at the heart of the Brown project. Damien Wright was

the hit man. Is it not inconceivable that they did not know what he was

the hit man. Is it not inconceivable up to. It is inconceivable that

the hit man. Is it not inconceivable did not -- Damian McBride. I am

I was not there under the last Labour government. But I do know

that these things are not happening under the leadership of Ed Miliband.

that backstabbing going on. There is no plotting against Ed Balls going

on? I do not see that. And anyone who briefed against colleagues

should be sacked, I agree with that. Nick Clegg's conference speech made

it clear he was repaired to work with Ed Miliband in the event of a

hung parliament. Are you excited by that prospect or is it just boring?

That is very generous of Nick Clegg to say that. With his poll ratings

of 9%. I think it is up to the general public to decide who they

want to form a government. We are campaigning for an overall Labour

that just boring boring? I want campaigning for an overall Labour

serve in a Labour government is campaigning for an overall Labour

a coalition government. That is campaigning for an overall Labour

we are campaigning for. Thank you has Ed Miliband got to do this

week? He has got to start to win the argument about the economy. I think

they will be quite clever on that in terms of saying that the recovery

has begun but it is not going to benefit many of the voters. Unlike

previous economic recoveries. That is a strong line and they need to

make that again and again. The recovery has barely started. The

make that again and again. The interesting thing, Isabel, they

make that again and again. The to make a living standards the issue

let's return to living standards which have been squeezed. The polls

show that twice as many people blame Labour for the living standards

show that twice as many people blame the Conservatives. It is a great

scene for them to mine, and it is the only one before they announce

big policies, but they have not gained the trust of voters on the

economy, so the Conservatives can say they are finishing the job of

fixing the recovery now and then cannot quite trust us with the

economy but we will talk about living standards. Ed Miliband's

economy but we will talk about elucidating policies and not just

incredibly vulnerable. The only thing worse than not having a policy

for an opposition leader is to have something to attack, the media

something to scrutinise and it makes you bold rubble and you can see

something to scrutinise and it makes coming through already before the

conference has started. You have childcare. Spigot can he provide

wraparound childcare for free? childcare. Spigot can he provide

can he provide wraparound childcare for free? I don't even know what it

is. Opposition is emphatically an art form, and the art form, and

artform for them at the moment is to artform for them at the moment is to

announce policies without spending any money and it is very difficult

to do. You gave an illustration any money and it is very difficult

how difficult it is. They are under huge pressure, for the last year, to

announce policies and they announce one on childcare and you immediately

say, how do you paper it? And she immediately says, we will not spend

a penny on it, because they are terrified of spending anything.

a penny on it, because they are is where it an artform. The tax

suspension before and election is crazy, because they will find money

one way or another, but in another way, they cannot say we will spend

money on this. It is a real problem. How do you measure the state of

money on this. It is a real problem. coalition after the Liberal Democrat

conference? The Liberal Democrats were in a very strong position after

their conference, Nick Clegg had supported, which seem to be the

their conference, Nick Clegg had important part of the conference. In

terms of the coalition, the Tories have had to sit and watch as Vince

Cable, Nick Clegg and Coe have basically criticised them and said

they are evil and only the Lib Dems can make sure the Government is

they are evil and only the Lib Dems and works properly. So in terms

they are evil and only the Lib Dems how the coalition works, you can

expect to see some revenge at the Tory conference. The Lib Dems, Nick

Clegg's followers, they had their revenge. Mister Clegg may have

convinced his own activists to stay behind him, but he has a bigger

convincing the British people. There is some interesting polling they

have done privately that suggests there is a market of about 25% of

the electorate which is plausibly open to them, and all they have

the electorate which is plausibly do is target policies remorselessly

at that group, rather than the broader public, in order to do well

enough at the next election to hold the balance of power. That is why

policies that seem weird to us, the balance of power. That is why

free school meals regardless of income, may perversely make sense to

them. Because it appeals to their political world we are in, the

Labour strategists think they can political world we are in, the

Labour strategists think they can win with 35%, the Lib Dems are going

to concentrate on 25. The Tories win with 35%, the Lib Dems are going

to concentrate on 25. The Tories have seized to be a national party

any more. We haven't been used to it 90s into the 21st century, the

policy matter delayed the Labour Party dominated. -- the Labour party

dominated. We are now here but we have other parties hoping that

dominated. We are now here but we will give them a small overall

majority and it is the best they can get. It is a very odd situation

where the main two parties feel get. It is a very odd situation

can lose and the Lib Dems are openly targeting only 25%. They have gotten

rid of 75% already and it is a long way from the policies of last couple

of decades Nick Clegg talked about all of the policies he had locked.

There is a real opportunity for all of the policies he had locked.

Conservatives to say that he is blocking all of the things that

voters outside of our bays are interested in, top immigration

policy, human rights reform, that sort of thing. David Cameron can say

that in Manchester next week. One thing was quite clear, it came out

of this awayday, and and this is this, that when you look at Mister

Miller band's polls, the Tories this, that when you look at Mister

going to make this a presidential Which is why I am curious why they

against his opponents, why not have him or her juxtaposed against them

in 90 minutes three times a week. past week has given us inklings

When the Lib Dems gathered for their Government is planning on fighting

When the Lib Dems gathered for their annual shindig in Glasgow, some

ministers were non-too complimentary about their blue blood fellows.

ministers were non-too complimentary bedfellows. Vince Cable led the

ministers were non-too complimentary Tories had reverted to type as a

nasty party and describe their politics as ugly, cynical, callous

and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not restrict himself to policies that

and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not the Lib Dems had champion, such

and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not increasing the amount you can earn

before paying tax. The Deputy Prime Minister proudly listed all of the

things he had stopped the Tories from doing. Speak of scrapping

housing benefit the young people, no. No to ditching the human rights

act. No to weakening the protections in the equalities act. So how much

of a break have the yellow brigade being on Conservative ambitions

question mark in the two leaders shake hands again after the 20

question mark in the two leaders election, what policies were David

Cameron insist on. -- 2015? No matter how many times Nick Clegg

Grant Shapps, good morning. Nick self-styled. He boasted to his

conference that he had stopped the Tories from going ahead with 16

policies in government. Is this accurate? I don't know but what

policies in government. Is this can tell you, as your commentator

Isabel said, some of the policies that we wanted them if we were a

majority government sent out to that we wanted them if we were a

very popular things, like reforming the human rights act and some of the

problems that provides when it comes to sending people who have no right

to be in this country back. So there to be in this country back. So there

may be some things we could have inheritance tax cut? I don't know

the details, but I think it is negotiation and sometimes you can't

get everything you want, and we negotiation and sometimes you can't

done the best, given where the electoral maths left us. That is why

70 people in this country say they electoral maths left us. That is why

70 people in this country say they would rather see a single party

running the country -- why so many people. I have to say I agree. They

Give me a couple of major policies that you would introduce if you

Give me a couple of major policies had a majority in 2010 and were

Give me a couple of major policies held back by the Lib Dems. Speaking

the one I just mentioned would be Country, we have had 1,000 years of

the European Court of human rights. Country, we have had 1,000 years of

the European Court of human rights. We have already started the process

of negotiation. There was some progress, but limited, and we would

like to move further. Let me give you one other. I think this country

has a great future but we can only ourselves the best place in the

world to come and set up a business. ourselves the best place in the

If we make ourselves the best place entrepreneurship and I think there

are a host of things we could do to go further on cutting back red tape.

And the Lib Dems have stopped you? I think that is the case. In what

ways, if any, have the Lib Dems improved the coalition process? It

has been a stable government. No one talks about when the next election

will come, we know it is in May talks about when the next election

but that is in part being in a coalition. The Tories wouldn't have

done that? It wasn't the plan of any party to go from... In the old days,

there would have been speculation. debate, you changed the British

constitution in a fundamental way and nobody got a say. It was debated

on the floor of the Has, as all constitutional changes are and there

was a lot of agreement -- of the House. Nobody has ever said to me

that it is a problem that we now have a fixed term parliament. Here

what it has done, it has provided stability in an incredibly uncertain

economic time and that has been stability in an incredibly uncertain

for the economy. we will chalk that up to delete -- Lib Dem. What about

taking people out of tax, the Lib Dems did that question mark it is a

great policy. It is a conservative led government, it is a Conservative

This is a screen grab from your party's website, income tax cut

This is a screen grab from your 25 million people. You are taking

the credit for it, it wouldn't have happened without the Lib Dems. It

certainly came about because of happened without the Lib Dems. It

coalition and we put it in the coalition agreement. It could not

have happened without a Conservative Chancellor making it happen. It

have happened without a Conservative right, 25 million people taken out

of tax. Another 17 by this April will not be paying tax at all. you

didn't want to do it. Look at what David Cameron told Nick Clegg during

What Nick Clegg is promising is David Cameron told Nick Clegg during

£17 billion tax cut. We are saying, stop the waste of 6 billion to stop

the national insurance rise. I would love to take everyone out of their

beautiful idea but we cannot afford unaffordable and now you are taking

the credit for it. I feel like it is having a three year afterwards

argument, and we got into coalition because the British people put us

there and we agreed to make the because the British people put us

of it. And as it happens, if you absolutely think it is the right

thing to take as many people out of tax entirely as possible. Two points

7 million people pay no tax at all threshold. -- 2.7 million. I'm

pleased it worked out. What are threshold. -- 2.7 million. I'm

most important thing is a majority Tory government would do after

most important thing is a majority unencumbered by the Lib Dems? I

think produce even more jobs when unemployment goes down, because

think produce even more jobs when are the most entrepreneurial place

to set up a business. Are more free-market economy? We make our

money because we are out global trading economy. That is why it

money because we are out global so important that we have to make

sure it is easy to trade around so important that we have to make

world. One simple example, it is crazy in my view that we have global

hardest other countries in the tariffs that prevent some of the

hardest other countries in the world, in developing parts of the

world, from exporting to us and world, in developing parts of the

versa. I'm giving you a platform of things that I think we would be

versa. I'm giving you a platform of sounds like you are talking about

versa. I'm giving you a platform of agendas. I think that you did a

versa. I'm giving you a platform of amount to show this country that if

you want to help the least well amount to show this country that if

people in society, and the least well off people in the world, around

the globe, the way to do it is to trade, and I think we should have an

economy which is much more open trade, and I think we should have an

free trade. If there is another trade, and I think we should have an

parliament, and the poll suggest there might be, at the moment it is

all to play for on both sides, what would your non-negotiable Red Line

speak? We are still two years away from that, it is a long way away,

but there is a lot we want to lay out. What we are going to be saying

to this country is most people want a single party running the country,

they think it is clean and clear and you don't end up with negotiation

setting out a very clear platform which will be for hard-working

people in this country who want which will be for hard-working

work hard and get on in life. We would, I think, want to see the

welfare state that we have got into, where it is no longer about helping

those most in need but became a situation where you are better off

not working than in worker, I think we plan to ensure that this is an

incredibly fair place to go out and do a day's work and get the money at

the end of the day rather than thinking there is an alternative.

you have promised a referendum on UK membership of the EU in 2017, that

must be your membership of the EU in 2017, that

clear, we want to see a referendum, a reform European Union. So no

poll... ? I should remind viewers that there is an act of Parliament,

a bill going through Parliament right now, for a referendum on the

EU, which comes back to the House. It is past the report stage and

comes back in November and we will be discussing it. The Lib Dems,

Labour, will have an opportunity to support what the British people

want. Lots may have changed. But it would be a Red Line for any future

coalition government question mark we are clear that it is time to have

a say. You will know from our manifesto. What is wrong with yes or

no? I cannot write the manifesto for 2015. You are asking me to project

beyond that and see in advance the election result and carry out the

negotiations that are yet to come. I'm just trying to work out how

much... I know you are committed but she won't tell me. Let's move on.

Your party has been described as nasty and blinkered. What do you

feel when he says that? We are interested in helping the most

vulnerable people in society. I think we're doing all that and more.

And it is a shame that that language was used because we have made so

much progress together. Are you getting to the end of your tether

with Mr King? I do not think it is terribly helpful for any Cabinet

minister to make comments like that. What I would say is that Nick Clegg

minister to make comments like that. is the leader of the Lib Dems and

entitled to have a view on it himself. Look at these figures on

party membership. Why has your party lost half of its members since Mr

Cameron became leader? I would like it to be more. But I think the world

has changed. People do not rush out and join political parties as they

used to. Instead they support you in different ways. If I released the

number of people who give to the party in different ways, through

donations for example, through friend memberships. If you include

that that figure goes back up. But your membership has fallen by 50% at

a time when UKIP has doubled. your membership has fallen by 50% at

not want to to misinterpret what I want to say. It is important to gain

members. I think we will have done that by the time of the next

election. But one statistic of interest, in the last election I had

a 17,000 majority in my own constituency. The difference was I

had 1000 people helping me to deliver leaflets and knock on the

doors. The Conservative party has changed. We now have an army of

people, volunteers who are not necessarily traditional members. The

days when you expect people to give you £25, before you accept their

support, those days have passed. You spoke about your most vulnerable

marginal seats. This is a poll from Michael Ashcroft. The 40 most

marginal seats that you will be defending. Labour is way up, you are

way down and UKIP is also up. What is happening, the Lib Dem Mo -- both

are moving to Labour. And disillusioned Conservatives are

moving to UKIP. If these figures disillusioned Conservatives are

came at an election he would disillusioned Conservatives are

of these 40 seats. The point about any opinion poll is that it is

perhaps accurate at the moment it is taken. We are now in a position

where the economy has turned the corner. The right thing to do was to

deal with the deficit. The people being asked about these things, they

will be interested in their own standard of living. Their mortgage

payments. Why are you doing worse in the marginal seats? National League

you are kind of nip and tuck with Labour. Well if that is the pick to

come 2015, people will see that this government has stuck to its guns. It

did not go for more borrowing and spending. And the record

demonstrates that the last thing you want to do is give the car keys back

to the people who crashed it in the first place. Lynton Crosby at this

away day of Conservative MPs, his one message was to go all out and

attack Ed Miliband. It is going to be a nasty election. That is

actually not true. We are going to focus on his policies, if he finally

announces some. Everything we have focus on his policies, if he finally

seen so far suggests it more borrowing and spending. The

shadow chancellor said we would be ruthless, just a few months later,

27.9 pounds of extra spending committed by Labour. These are your

figures. I will speak to you about that during the Tory conference.

It's just after 11:30. You're watching the Sunday Politics. Coming

up in just over 20 minutes. Alastair Campbell gives us his

not-too-positive review of Damian McBride's memoirs. Until then,

Good morning, you are watching the Sunday politics the Yorkshire and

Lincolnshire. We've left the studio to come out on the road because we

are talking about a growing problem of loneliness. Research into

Yorkshire cities has found a growing number of people are living isolated

lifestyles, and the government is being urged to take action. What

ever is been said from the top—down is really affecting individuals, but

they're scared talk about it. Today, we've come to a district of York,

one of the areas chosen by the Joseph Rowntree

research into loneliness. We're joined by a panel of people

including politicians, researchers and some local people who say they

are the victims of economic isolation. First, let's find out

more about this research from Louise Martin.

As more families split up and more live to a ripe old age, there is

growing recognition within government that loneliness is a

critical health and social concern. For one in time, it is a serious

issue. The Joseph Rowntree foundation wanted to know more.

Loneliness kills communities and individuals. You are twice as likely

to die prematurely if you experience loneliness. The organisation

selected for areas in Yorkshire. Over three years, 32 residents were

trained to investigate loneliness and question 500 people across each

of the four areas. Dad 's of relatives and disease were key

factors. Researchers found government policies were mixed in

with the causes as well. It was the people in the post offices and

libraries that knew these lonely people. Those front line services

actually caught those people and helped put the safety net in place.

layer is now missing, and it's how we fill the gap. Communities are in

a good place to help do the preventative staff, but that

intervention, that support, that body in system and those sorts of

things, somebody being able to check things ROK has been taken away.

Government policy is affecting everybody here. What's been said

from the top—down is really affecting individuals but they are

scared to talk about it because of the fear of what other people might

of them, so they're trying to cope, and a lot are struggling. Just the

fact that there are opportunities and we're giving them opportunities

to earn talk about that, spaces to feel safe and loved and like they

can be themselves. I think that's really important, because there is

very much and need to show you are someone else. We actually have to

take steps to give people the confidence to talk to their

neighbours, to engage in activities and put those stepping stones back

in place. The research indicates those stepping stones back to

greater well—being are being undermined by policy makers. For

instance, unemployed volunteers for community projects are having

benefits stopped. Health and safety regulations kill off community

off meeting up with each other. Back in the 90s when I started, you were

able to set up a local group and everybody could bring tea, milk and

biscuits. Those opportunities aren't available now. We're having to rely

on children's centres which are disappearing, schools, churches, but

even knows the cities are now having charge. There is a real cut in

services. That is a real issue. There are more people but do

resources to go around. —— but fewer resources. There are a lot of mental

health issues because of what is happening in the community. The

research findings will doubtless be controversial. They fuel the debate

over the role of the state and whether individuals and communities

need nannying. Some interesting talking points

there. Let's pick up on a couple of them with Tracy from the Joseph

Rowntree foundation. That statistic about being twice as likely to die

prematurely if you are lonely, many will be shocked by that. Yes. What

is even more worrying is it also causes increased risks of dementia

and cardiovascular disorder. The reasons the loneliness are manifest.

Things like the health and safety culture, what's that about? What

we've discovered is people are quite happy to set up preventative things,

but there is intervening in people 's lives.

There is a real fear of knocking on your neighbour's door in case you

don't know who they are. This regulation has killed off kindness.

Sarah Champion is the Labour MP for Rotherham. How big a problem is

loneliness from your point of view? Unfortunately, it is a huge national

problem. And it is increasing. People are feeling more vulnerable.

People are being told they are scroungers if they are on benefit

which is segregating our society. Philip is the Conservatives

Parliamentary candidate for Halifax. Does a lot of this fall at the

government's door? I don't think so. This government is doing more

than any other in terms of getting people back into work, creating new

jobs. It is a bigger picture. We need a holistic approach by society.

It's not just the government. Everybody needs to be involved in

this programme of picking up people who are lonely and getting them

involved in society. Let's hear from some of the people who took part in

this research on loneliness by the Joseph Rowntree foundation. I come

from a council estate. I've been in 18 different houses. We moved around

a lot as kids. I joined a group called the Joseph Rowntree

Foundation at school. I joined because I wanted to change my

community. A lot of jobs now expect you to work weekends, when there is

not a lot of childcare available. Or if it is, it is a lot more

expensive. I had a lot of bereavement around the age of 14 to

16. You sit back and think, what a lonely life I've had. I didn't

realise I was that lonely. There are parts of your life where you might

not recognise you are lonely. We only earn a little bit more than the

benefits and we cannot even get free prescriptions. This community is

struggling. There are not opportunities out there. You think,

you have to take that job. My husband has to work and he is

struggling. He comes home after 13 hour shifts. I cannot afford

childcare. I have to pay for the childcare, it's too expensive. A lot

of it is down to childcare. People cannot get the qualifications to get

into employment. And if they had the qualifications, they couldn't get

into employment because they couldn't afford the childcare. Let's

pick up on a few of those points. Childcare seems to feature quite

heavily. What's your name? Heidi, tell us about your personal

circumstances. My partner works during the day and I work in the

evening to avoid childcare costs. I have two children. If I wanted to

work during the day, I would have to find a job that fell during school

hours. If I got a job that was ten until 2pm, at four hours at minimum

wage, I would only earn £24 80. A full day in a nursery is £40 because

she would overlap the morning and afternoon slot, so you would have to

pay for the full day. So I would only £13. If tax credits contributed

towards that, even if I got the £13, technically, I am sending my

child to nursery for nothing, really, because I get nothing from

that. If I could get her in the just and afternoon or morning, you are

still talking £19, so I'm still only left with £5 84 days work. So it's

not worth your while. It's not. This is one of the big problems

underneath this government. It is clear that women who want more

flexibility in their working life or just want to start their career back

again after having children, they are being penalised. We need better

childcare provision, and it needs to be more access above. People on low

incomes should ideally have free childcare because for the economy to

keep going, we need these people to be working. What you think of that

solution? It is part of the solution, but there are a number of

issues. The cost of childcare is more expensive in this country than

many other countries. We need to deal with that, so the government

needs to bring those out quickly. The whole issue of people working,

we need flexibility within the workplace, but we also need a

flexible workforce. This lady is a good example, she is troubling

backlit juggling around with her partner so that it works. —— she is

juggling things with her partner so that it works. That's great, but a

lot of people are single parents, they don't have that social

structure around them. That is exactly what this loneliness

research has proved, that people are moving for work, they are losing

that social structure. Whereas once the Church of voluntary groups would

be there, they are just not any more. The reason is, they are not

getting the funding from the government anymore. Well, it is

partly government funding, but there are single parents to group together

and they take turns with childcare. So there is a bit of effort in terms

of being organised and a bit more need for structure than was before,

but we cannot always have the government coming along bailing

out. We're not talking about bailing out, we talking about the foundation

years of children. These are the most important. The children to be

able to go on and have a good education and get employment, they

need those foundation year is protected. We accept all of that.

This week, the government has announced breakfast the children in

their early years. That is recognition of that. But the fact

is, the country can only afford what it can afford. We need to have a

little bit more flexibility in terms of understanding so people can work

weekends and do other things. I want to speak to Angela who took part in

this research. Some up for us what you found. We've been doing the

independent evaluation of the programme. Picking up on the

childcare issue, the way the programme is operated has created a

safe space for parents to go with their children, with facilities,

where they can get skills that not only make them employable, but make

them able to go out and get a job. Many will associate loneliness with

something that is perhaps exclusively associated with elderly

people. But that is not the case. No, my work has probed

focused on Bradford, an inner—city area with different cultures. We

found loneliness affects every single group, and particularly

children, which is a real surprise. Although children have families and

support, they are feeling isolated and lonely at home. They feel they

have nowhere to go, nobody to talk to. Clearly, a big problem in parts

of York as well as Bradford. Christian, you are a Conservative

councillor in this city. Why is it such a big problem in your city? We

have to look across society rather than just writing a blank check that

we will pay more and more. It's about people coming together,

working, exactly the sort of people we want to encourage. It is about as

making a system where she can work. We can't just leave the system of

tax credits which totally distorts that system. Heidi, tell us what you

think of what you've heard so far from the politicians. To be honest,

I don't have any family in York so I cannot rely on family to look after

my children. I'm not asking that everything gets paid, I'm just

asking for it to be a bit cheaper. Do you know what I mean? Just more

affordable. As the parents helping each other out,

ways but it's not really, because parents can't actually look after

other people's children. It is all about childminding. You come again

to the holidays, and we have eight children between us. Is it all right

there a need to look after eight children? It's not, not when you get

to the holidays. The government is polishing a raft of new policy

announcement —— promising, but Ed Miliband has recently had criticism

from some big hitters. It's been a tricky few months that

Ed Miliband in the bruising world of politics. Some of Labour's big

hitters have been critical of his leadership. John Prescott said

Labour had massively failed to get its case over to the public during

the summer. I always welcome advice, including from our former

deputy leader. I think Labour was talking about the right issues, and

that is the cost of living crisis. So many are struggling and yet they

have a government who is saying, the economy is healing, everything is

fine. We're saying, we think Britain could be doing better. If Labour

were to form the next government, the party would have to win back

seats like this one from the Conservatives. So

actually know about what Ed Miliband stands for? Who is that? That is Ed

Miliband, the leader of the Labour Party. Do you know much about him

and his policies? Not really. I know he doesn't put on self out very

well, so that's why I don't want his stuff. He is believed —— the leader

of the Labour Party. What deceased and for? —— what does he stand for?

Lots of things. We don't agree with them all. I can't think of them now.

I don't think they've announced many really about Europe. Many voters

don't seem to know anything about your policies are what you stand for

in Lincoln. Does that bother you? I do think that's true, but I think

there's a real opportunity at our conference to focus on the thing

that matters, the thing we care about, which is how we sort this

living crisis out. I hope that is what voters in Lincoln and elsewhere

would see. But Ed Miliband has revealed one new policy

announcement, what Labour calls the bedroom tax, and what the government

calls the spare room subsidy, would be scrapped if Labour win the next

election. The policy has led to thousands of tenants with one or

more spare room is losing some of their housing benefit. I think it's

a really important commitment. We are going to end the boardroom tax

loopholes and use that money to help end the bedroom tax. We will help

80,000 families across our region. I think other people think it's fair.

Most of the people are disabled people, people are falling behind

with their rents, facing eviction. That's not just bad for them, it

means they have to be housed somewhere else. So I think it is the

right thing to do. While Labour remain ahead of the Tories in the

opinion polls, some question whether Ed Miliband will be able to land the

killer punch come the general election in 2015.

Let's ask Sarah Champion, Labour MP for Rotherham, is Ed Miliband

struggling to get his message across? No, I don't think so at

all. I know the media and some of my colleagues are putting that spin

out, but we are very much a united party. We know where we're going. We

are looking to create equality. I think he's doing a really good job.

Let's get some reaction from our conservative guests. Ed Miliband is

talking about the cost of living being the big theme of his

conference. The economy might be improving, but the feel—good factor

isn't there, is it? I think it is coming back. The economy has gone

through a dreadful recession. We're now seeing growth, there is 29.5

million people working, which is a high figure. There are 1.3 million

new jobs being created in the public sector. And there is growth

economy. Not a lot, but it is in the right direction. Labour is talking

to activists rather than the country. We're turning the economy

around. Everything is getting better. It is going to be a tough

journey, but we're in the right direction. The problem is, all the

economists say that if we done nothing, the economy would be where

it is now. So, in effect, you haven't done anything, even just

kept ticking along. Any grape is to be welcomed, but it is not anywhere

near enough, and all these people here are feeling the pinch. I think

we are all feeling the pinch, but new proper jobs are being created

within the economy, and the government is going in the right

direction. It's never going to be easy. The government could have

certainly spend more money, but you have to bear in mind that at the

moment, that every Bond pound it spends, 20p of that is borrowed. If

Labour go back on his spending boom again... But hard—working families

in York are still feeling the pain. But we know why they are feeling the

pain, it is because Labour left with unprecedented debts. A world

recession might have had a bit of an impact? ! I did it into you, Sarah.

I feel sorry for people at the conference you have to pretend that

Ed Miliband has the answers. This government is dragging people up,

not down. I'm incredulous! Unfortunately, the facts don't bear

out any of this. Wages are down by 8% under this government. Living

costs are taking a hammering. The wealth has a point to make about

loneliness? My name is Gemma. I'm a mum of two Mac. I want to go back to

the comment about limited funds for the government paying childcare. But

the more people we can get back into work and with childcare means that

more people are paying taxes and putting back into the government, so

it is swings and roundabouts. We will put in if you can help us get

there. And this is the problem. People are not looking for a

hand—out but under this government they are made to feel that they

should be embarrassed that asking for help. Tracy, let's skip the last

word to you. What do politicians out there need to be doing to tackle

this problem of loneliness? I think they can really help by the ——

reducing the contradictory messages. Like, it's OK for parents

to look after other people's children, but then it's not, because

the regulation prevents that. I think the stepping stones are

missing. We've got three of our community researchers who had jobs

because of this programme, but that took years to build up their

conference and —— confidence and skills levels. Thank you for coming

to speak to us today. That's it from us this week. Back to Andrew in

London. us this week. Back to Andrew in

much. Leafing through the papers the us this week. Back to Andrew in

last few days has taken me back us this week. Back to Andrew in

my youth. The halcyon days of the 2000s, when the warring Blairite and

Brownite tribes fought over who should run the Labour Party. Gordon

Brown's chief spin doctor Damian should run the Labour Party. Gordon

Brown's chief spin doctor Damian McBride - McPoison, or worse, to his

enemies - has published his memoirs, timed for maximum impact in the

enemies - has published his memoirs, of Labour's Conference. They detail

how Mr McBride briefed against colleagues, brought down Cabinet

Ministers, that is - and fought tooth and nail to promote the man he

called "the greatest man he ever met" - Gordon Brown. Joining us

called "the greatest man he ever is Tony Blair's former Director

called "the greatest man he ever Communications, Alastair Campbell.

You are angry about what he has Communications, Alastair Campbell.

in this book. Why is that. It is partly the fact that he has done it

in a way that will be -- will be partly the fact that he has done it

that he told at the time that he now communications and trying to hold

the thing together, build the team. There was also Charlie Whelan and

others. And that job was made more difficult than it should have been.

I used to challenge Gordon Brown about it. And there came a stage

where I said if Whelan does not about it. And there came a stage

I will go. And when Damian McBride was on the scene I was clear that I

was not going to have anything to do with him. Because of what he is

was not going to have anything to do admitting to, I think they played

quite a significant part in pushing Labour out of power. Because the

public were being fed by them, this public were being fed by them, this

narrative, the whole time. That Blair was useless, Charles Clarke

was useless. And I think that we where the government and had very

good ministers trying to do big things for the country. I said this

morning it was like being a foot tall team were on the pitch you

morning it was like being a foot your own players kicking the star

players. That is why I am angry about it because I think they helped

players. That is why I am angry If we had all stuck together I think

did not win the last election, that is a reasonable point. But surely

undermine Tony Blair and to promote their man, Gordon Brown. It is

inconceivable then that Gordon Brown did not know about it. Well in spite

reasonably good relationship with Gordon Brown. I used to challenge

him a lot about what Whelan was doing. He would always say, I will

sort it out. Another thing that annoys me is this sense put forward

by the right wing media that there was this sense of equivalence.

People like Steve who I have known for years, there is not a single

journalist with the very occasional exception where I lost my temper,

who would honestly be able to tell you that I ever breathed against

ministers. That was my golden rule. People say you were the forerunner.

I know it was not the case. One People say you were the forerunner.

the reasons why I do despise what associated with, once I wrote a

actually within the government, associated with, once I wrote a

had a principle of maximum openness and trust. Anyone could come to

had a principle of maximum openness morning meetings on condition that

what was discussed their state as part of the team. I had to say to

Gordon Brown, your people are not coming. Because I knew where it

Gordon Brown, your people are not coming from. Did you know that the

time but Charles Clarke and others were effectively being destroyed

from within the Labour government? I certainly knew that they thought

that. I did know journalists telling me that that was what was happening.

Ultimately, this is why I never me that that was what was happening.

leaders, it is ultimately up to me that that was what was happening.

litre. Possibly in a different age Gordon Brown would have been an

amazing Prime Minister. He was a great chancellor. But he had a

flaw, this need for truly horrible people to be around him doing truly

horrible things in politics and giving him and the Labour Party

horrible things in politics and politics a bad name. That is why I'm

still angry about Damian McBride. politics a bad name. That is why I'm

still angry about Damian McBride. What do you make of it? The current

administration is a contrast. We have rival factions occupying the

same offices but they still get have rival factions occupying the

The only time they have a row is when something really big happens.

But with that one party in Downing Street there was fighting the whole

time. Did Ed Balls know about this. I would assume so. I spoke with

time. Did Ed Balls know about this. about it at the time. He told me at

the time that he had spoken about it with Gordon Brown. So I think there

was a concern from within that camp about some of these activities at

equivalence, in life you expect about some of these activities at

see that there is full on both sides. But I do not buy it in this

see that there is full on both case. If you look at the testimonies

see that there is full on both over the years, what you can surmise

about the character of Gordon Brown and of Tony Blair, it was ultimately

driven by Gordon Brown and the people around him. The Blairites did

things but they did then by way people around him. The Blairites did

The one-time when I did lose it people around him. The Blairites did

the whole psychological force thing. That came at the end of a period

when we were relentlessly being That came at the end of a period

in by Charlie Whelan and his gang of journalists. I would go along to

colleagues would be there and I journalists. I would go along to

had to sit there and not hit back. Saying I cannot believe Gordon Brown

would have anything to do with this. You get to the stage where your

would have anything to do with this. credibility is on the line. Coming

promotion of alcohol awareness. credibility is on the line. Coming

before that the Labour Party, you never had to deal with this in

opposition because you were pretty far ahead in the polls by midterm.

This time that is not the case. far ahead in the polls by midterm.

is surprisingly narrow. What advice would you give to Ed Miliband? To

keep his head out side of this bubble but it's all about him. And

to use this week to really speak to the British people about himself,

particularly the kind of policy agenda he is shaping for the future.

And start to heart -- start to hit the Tories hard. They're not pop,

And start to heart -- start to hit yet they are neck and neck. I would

say that the whole Shadow Cabinet understand that you win elections by

wanting to win elections every minute of every day. There is too

much complacency. A small lead now you have to grow that. You do that

with energy and conviction and policy. Tony Blair had a huge pole

bead in the run-up to 1997. We were winning seat where we had not even

campaigned and he was saying, why celebrate because we have not won

yet. You are promoting your alcohol celebrate because we have not won

yet. You are promoting your alcohol awareness campaign. Perhaps the

party conference is not the best place to do that! That is one reason

why I am doing that. I'm hosting probably the only alcohol free

reception of the week! There is nothing worse than a convert, I

reception of the week! There is that. But I travel a lot. I travel

around the world and Britain has a something we should be ashamed of.

Why is that, is it cultural? I think Cameron was right to go for minimum

unit pricing and wrong to do a reversal. 6% of alcoholics get

treatment. I expect that drugs are a problem but we spent £2 billion

treatment. I expect that drugs are a 100,000 problem drug takers and

treatment. I expect that drugs are a million on 1.6 million problem

have written this book about a young million on 1.6 million problem

alcoholic, a teenager. And it is in the first person. People could think

you are writing about yourself. did you choose a teenage girl? Well

partly, I dedicated this to the Southampton. He told me when he

started his career that his patience was split nine to one, men to women

and it is now 50 - 50. They're getting younger and younger. One

doctor looking after me said I will take you around this hospital and

the problems of alcohol are in every single ward. Not just accident and

advertisements for gambling and advertising. How have we allowed

this to happen, ? We are just awash with it. What we did I think on

Availability and price either too means by which you can bring this

down. And the country that has had the biggest success on this is

Russia, bizarrely. Thank you very much for that. That's all for today.

Thanks to all our guests. I'll be with live coverage of Labour Party

Conference, including the speech from the man who wants to be the

next Chancellor, Ed Balls. Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday