Browse content similar to 08/12/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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The morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. First, some Sunday | :00:39. | :00:44. | |
morning cheer, if you are an MP, that is. You are set to get an 11% | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
pay rise. The Chancellor has gone from zero to hero for some, who | :00:50. | :00:55. | |
credit him for turning the economy around. We will be taking a fine | :00:56. | :01:00. | |
tooth comb to his Autumn Statement. Should this man get a pay rise? | :01:01. | :01:05. | |
Complete denial about the central facts... And 11% pay rise for Ed | :01:06. | :01:12. | |
Balls? He was certainly working hard to be heard last Thursday. We will | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
be reviewing his performance. What about this man? We will be joined by | :01:17. | :01:19. | |
England's Coming up in Yorkshire and | :01:20. | :01:31. | |
Lincolnshire, why a senior Tory MP is fighting for her political career | :01:32. | :01:34. | |
after being shunned by local party bosses. | :01:35. | :01:43. | |
With me, three scruffy eternal students. They would celebrate if | :01:44. | :01:50. | |
they achieved a C+. But they are all we could afford and there will be no | :01:51. | :01:53. | |
pay rise for them. They will be glued to an electronic device | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
throughout the programme and if we are lucky they might stop there | :01:57. | :02:02. | |
internet shopping and tweet something intelligent. But don't | :02:03. | :02:06. | |
hold your breath. Janan Ganesh, Helen Lewis and Nick Watt. Last | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
week, storms were battering Britain, the East Coast was hit by the worst | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
tidal surge in more than a century, thousands of people had to be | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
evacuated and Nelson Mandela died. The downed the news agenda was the | :02:19. | :02:23. | |
small matter of George Osborne's Autumn Statement. His giveaways, his | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
takeaways and his first opportunity to announce some economic cheer. | :02:29. | :02:37. | |
It might be winter outside, but in the studios it is awesome. Autumn | :02:38. | :02:48. | |
Statement time. -- autumn. This is a moment of TV history. Normally when | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
the Chancellor delivers these statements, he has to say the | :02:53. | :02:55. | |
economy is actually a lot worse than everyone predicted. This time, he | :02:56. | :03:00. | |
can stand up and say the economy is better than everybody predicted. A | :03:01. | :03:01. | |
lot better. Britain is currently growing faster | :03:02. | :03:10. | |
than any other major advanced economy. Faster than France, which | :03:11. | :03:17. | |
is contracting, faster than Germany, faster even than America. At this | :03:18. | :03:23. | |
Autumn Statement last year, there were repeated predictions that | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
borrowing would go up. Instead, borrowing is down, and down | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
significantly more than forecast. But George Osborne said the good | :03:32. | :03:34. | |
numbers still mean more tough decisions. We will not give up in | :03:35. | :03:40. | |
giving in our country's debts. We will not spend the money from lower | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
borrowing. We will not squander the harder and games of the British | :03:45. | :03:52. | |
people. -- hard earned gains. In other news, further cuts to | :03:53. | :03:55. | |
government departments. The state pension age will increase in the | :03:56. | :04:01. | |
2040s, affecting people in their 40s now. There were some goodies, like | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
discounted business rates for small businesses, free school meals for | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
infants, favoured by the Lib Dems, and those marriage tax breaks below | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
that by the Tories. But, as with all big fiscal events, it takes a while | :04:16. | :04:17. | |
for the details to sink in. The marriage tax allowance is a | :04:18. | :04:25. | |
long-standing commitment that he could not abandon. It does help | :04:26. | :04:28. | |
those families were only one goes out to work. It does not go to | :04:29. | :04:34. | |
higher rate taxpayers, I don't think. Perhaps it does, I can't | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
remember. It makes me feel guilty, I am taking them very seriously, | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
but... Shall I give you them? There is the Autumn Statement. Have that, | :04:45. | :04:47. | |
a free gift from the Sunday Politics. Is there no limit to the | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
generosity of the BBC? In the meantime, Twitter was awash | :04:52. | :05:01. | |
with unflattering pictures of a red-faced Ed Balls giving his | :05:02. | :05:05. | |
response. Some pictures were more than flattering than others. Is Ed | :05:06. | :05:11. | |
Balls OK? Should we be worrying about him? He looks very stressed. | :05:12. | :05:15. | |
There is nothing to worry about in terms of Ed balls and his analysis. | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
He and Ed Miliband have been setting the pace in terms of the focus on | :05:20. | :05:27. | |
the living standards crisis. It was very telling that there was not a | :05:28. | :05:30. | |
mention of living standards last time, we got 12 mentions this time. | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
Never mind what he was saying, by now everybody has a copy of the | :05:36. | :05:42. | |
all-important paperwork. Time to hand over to number cruncher | :05:43. | :05:44. | |
extraordinaire Paul Johnson from the Institute for Fiscal Studies. Of | :05:45. | :05:49. | |
course it means that things are significantly better this year and | :05:50. | :05:52. | |
next than we thought they would be just nine months ago. That has got | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
to be good news. But it is also worth looking at the growth figures | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
a few years out. They have been revised down a little bit. The | :06:01. | :06:08. | |
reason is, the view of the office of budget response ability is that the | :06:09. | :06:11. | |
long run has not really changed very much. We are getting a bit more | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
growth now, but their view is that it is at the cost of a little bit of | :06:16. | :06:18. | |
the growth we will expect in the years after the next general | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
election. As the day draws to a close, the one place there has | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
definitely been no growth is the graphics budget of my colleague, | :06:28. | :06:35. | |
Robert Preston. It's as good as it gets these days, I don't think the | :06:36. | :06:39. | |
viewers will mind. It's very Sunday Politics, if I might say. That is | :06:40. | :06:47. | |
very worrying. Was this a watershed for George | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
Osborne? Was it a watershed for Ed Balls? We can all make the case that | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
it is the wrong sort of recovery, a consumer led recovery. People are | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
spending money they don't have. At the end of the day, it for George | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
Osborne, it is growth, the first time he has been able to talk about | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
growth. It allows him to control the baseline, the fiscal debate for the | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
next generation. For Ed Balls, nearly not a good performance. But | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
don't write this man off. Judging by Twitter, Iain Dale, no friend of it | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
all is, said he did a good interview this morning on a rival TV channel. | :07:22. | :07:30. | |
I feel the fact that the Tories hate Ed Balls so passionately is probably | :07:31. | :07:33. | |
a good reason that they should hang onto him, in that Labour sends his | :07:34. | :07:40. | |
effectiveness. May be the Tories hope that they hold on to him as | :07:41. | :07:46. | |
well? A lot of people shouting at someone and mocking their speech | :07:47. | :07:49. | |
impediment, that is politics that doesn't make me want to engage. The | :07:50. | :07:52. | |
takeaway will be lots of people thinking that none of these people | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
are people they like. Who is the main heckler on the Labour front | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
bench West remarked I suppose he can't cast any stones. It would be | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
easier to sympathise with him, if it were not that David Cameron went | :08:07. | :08:09. | |
through a similar situation and John Bercow did not step in to stop the | :08:10. | :08:15. | |
wall of noise. It was guaranteed a good happen to a Labour politician. | :08:16. | :08:23. | |
It's painful to remove him because he had a Parliamentary following and | :08:24. | :08:30. | |
he will kick up a fuss. I think he's much more pragmatic on issues like | :08:31. | :08:35. | |
business than Ed Miliband. I'm told he wasn't keen on the energy price | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
freeze. The problem with Ed Balls, to have the first words that you | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
say, the Chancellor is in denial, after he is presiding over growth, | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
it means nobody is listening to you. Who would replace him? Certainly not | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
Alistair Darling, the side of the referendum and even afterwards. Ed | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
Balls did get a roasting in the press and on Twitter. He seemed to | :08:59. | :09:01. | |
disappear from public view following the Autumn Statement. But a little | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
bird tells me he managed one interview this morning before he | :09:06. | :09:08. | |
went off to an all-important piano recital this afternoon. Watch out, | :09:09. | :09:13. | |
Jools Holland, he could be after your job. How bad was his | :09:14. | :09:16. | |
performance on Thursday? Here is the Shadow Chancellor in action. The | :09:17. | :09:22. | |
Chancellor is incomplete denial about the central facts that are | :09:23. | :09:28. | |
defining this government in office. He used to say he would balance the | :09:29. | :09:39. | |
books in 2015. Now he wants us to congratulate him for saying he will | :09:40. | :09:44. | |
do it in 2019, Mr Speaker. With this government, it is clearly not just | :09:45. | :09:51. | |
the badgers that move the goalposts. No mention of the universal credit | :09:52. | :09:58. | |
in the statement. IDS, in deep shambles, Mr Speaker. Chris Leslie | :09:59. | :10:07. | |
is the Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury. He is Ed Balls's deputy, | :10:08. | :10:14. | |
in other words. Why do more and more of your Labour colleagues think that | :10:15. | :10:20. | |
your boss is below the water line? I'm not sure I accept the premise of | :10:21. | :10:23. | |
your suggestion. I don't think my colleagues believe that George | :10:24. | :10:29. | |
Osborne has a superior argument. I think Ed Balls will certainly trying | :10:30. | :10:32. | |
his best, loud and clear, to make the case there is a cost of living | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
crisis in this country and the Chancellor doesn't understand this. | :10:37. | :10:39. | |
That was essentially the heat of the debate on the Autumn Statement day. | :10:40. | :10:45. | |
One leading Labour MPs said to me that Ed Balls is always looking | :10:46. | :10:47. | |
back, fixated with the rear-view mirror, that was the exact quote. A | :10:48. | :10:53. | |
Labour MP told Sky News, Labour has a strong argument to make, | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
unfortunately it was not made well in the chamber today. Quoting the | :10:58. | :11:06. | |
Daily Mail, this is two poor performances. A quote that I can't | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
use because it uses too many four letter words. Baroness Armstrong, | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
speaking at Progress, a former Labour Cabinet minister, we are not | :11:17. | :11:20. | |
sufficiently concerned about public spending, how we would pay for what | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
we are talking about. Quite a battering? There were two sets of | :11:25. | :11:28. | |
quotes you were giving. The couple were about the strategy for tackling | :11:29. | :11:34. | |
public expenditure. I think it's fair that we talk about that. The | :11:35. | :11:40. | |
rest were pretty unattributed, nameless sources. You have never | :11:41. | :11:50. | |
given and of the record briefing? We have conversations off camera, but I | :11:51. | :11:55. | |
don't think you have a wealth of evidence to say that somehow Ed | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
Balls's arguments were wrong. He was making the point that, ultimately, | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
it is a government that does not have its finger on the pulse about | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
what most of your viewers are concerned about, that wages are | :12:10. | :12:12. | |
being squeezed and prices are getting higher and higher. You have | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
had time to study the Autumn Statement. What part of it does | :12:17. | :12:23. | |
Labour disagree with? It is a very big question. I think the overall | :12:24. | :12:29. | |
strategy the Autumn Statement is setting out does not deal with the | :12:30. | :12:32. | |
fundamental problems in the economy. What measures do you disagree with? | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
A lot of it is the absence of measures we would have put in if we | :12:38. | :12:40. | |
were doing the Autumn Statement. If you are going to deal with the cost | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
of living crisis, you have got to get productivity levels up in our | :12:45. | :12:47. | |
society. One of the best ways of doing that is on infrastructure. We | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
believe in bringing forward 's investment and housing, getting some | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
of the fundamentals right in our economy. By planting, the business | :12:57. | :13:04. | |
lending we have to do. We have seen a lamentable failing. There are big | :13:05. | :13:13. | |
structural reforms that we need. Ultimately, the public are concerned | :13:14. | :13:16. | |
about the cost of living crisis. That has got to be childcare help, a | :13:17. | :13:21. | |
10p starting rate of tax. Above all, and energy price freeze, which | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
still this government are refusing to do. On Friday, you told me you | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
supported the principle of a welfare cap. But you change bling claim the | :13:31. | :13:36. | |
Chancellor's cap included pensions. You have now seen the figures, and | :13:37. | :13:40. | |
it does not include pensions, correct? We do want a welfare cap. | :13:41. | :13:45. | |
The government have said they are going to put more detail on this in | :13:46. | :13:51. | |
the March budget. But it does not include pensions? We think they have | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
a short term approach to the welfare cap. They put in some pension | :13:56. | :14:01. | |
benefits. The state pension is not in the short-term plan because, as | :14:02. | :14:04. | |
we believe, a triple lock is a good idea. In the longer term, if you are | :14:05. | :14:10. | |
talking about structural welfare issues, you do have to think about | :14:11. | :14:13. | |
pensions because they have to be sustainable if we are living | :14:14. | :14:15. | |
longer. I think that is about the careful management. Let me show you | :14:16. | :14:20. | |
what Ed Balls said on this programme at the start of the summer. As for | :14:21. | :14:27. | |
pensioners, I think this is a real question. George Osborne is going to | :14:28. | :14:30. | |
announce his cap in two weeks time. I don't know if he will exclude | :14:31. | :14:34. | |
pension spending or including. Our plan is to include it. Pension | :14:35. | :14:38. | |
spending would be included in the welfare cap? That is our plan, | :14:39. | :14:44. | |
exactly what I just said. Over the long-term, if you have a serious | :14:45. | :14:47. | |
welfare cap structural welfare issues, over 20, 30, 40 year | :14:48. | :14:53. | |
period, you can't say that we will not work and pensions as part of | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
that. Pensions would be part of the Labour cap? In the longer term. What | :14:59. | :15:05. | |
is the longer term? If you win 2015? We want to stick with the triple | :15:06. | :15:11. | |
lock on the pension, that is the Government approach to their | :15:12. | :15:15. | |
short-term welfare cap. In the longer term, for example, on the | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
winter fuel allowance, we should not necessarily be... There are lots of | :15:20. | :15:25. | |
benefits... I understand that, I am talking about the basic state | :15:26. | :15:28. | |
pension, is that part of your welfare cap or not? In a 20, 30, 40 | :15:29. | :15:35. | |
year frame... Even you will not be around in government, then. You are | :15:36. | :15:45. | |
writing me off already. You have to focus on welfare changes, pensions | :15:46. | :15:48. | |
have to be affordable as part of that. It's dangerous to say, well, | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
if you are going to have a serious welfare cap, we should not look at | :15:53. | :15:55. | |
pensions cost. It would be irresponsible. Will pensions be part | :15:56. | :16:03. | |
of the cap from 2015 until 2020 if Labour is in power? In our long-term | :16:04. | :16:07. | |
cap we have to make sure... I'm talking about 2015-16. We haven't | :16:08. | :16:15. | |
seen the proposition the Government has put before us. | :16:16. | :16:21. | |
You claim people of ?1600 worse off under the coalition. That is true | :16:22. | :16:32. | |
when you compare to pay and prices. Can you confirm that calculation | :16:33. | :16:36. | |
does not include the ?700 tax cut from raising the income tax | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
threshold, huge savings on mortgages because of low interest or the | :16:42. | :16:46. | |
freezing of council tax? It doesn't include the tax and benefit | :16:47. | :16:50. | |
changes. If you do want to look at those, last year, the ISS said they | :16:51. | :16:56. | |
could be making people worse off. It might not include those factors. The | :16:57. | :17:04. | |
VAT increase, tax credit cuts, child benefit cuts, they all add up. My | :17:05. | :17:10. | |
understanding is that the ISS figures have said people are ?891 | :17:11. | :17:16. | |
worse off if you look at the tax and benefit changes since 2010. You have | :17:17. | :17:23. | |
to look at wages and prices. The ISS confirmed our approach was broadly | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
the right way of assessing what is happening. The Chancellor was | :17:28. | :17:33. | |
saying, real household disposable incomes are rising. He is completely | :17:34. | :17:39. | |
out of touch. Can you sum up the macro economic policy for Labour? | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
Invest in the future, make sure we have the right approach for the | :17:44. | :17:48. | |
long-term politicking. Tackle the cost of living crisis people are | :17:49. | :17:51. | |
facing. Now, let's talk to the Financial | :17:52. | :17:54. | |
Secretary to the Treasury, Sajid Javid. | :17:55. | :18:02. | |
Discovery, underpinned by rising house prices, increasing personal | :18:03. | :18:08. | |
debt, do you accept that is unsustainable? | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
I accept the OBE are also said the reason why this country is facing | :18:14. | :18:19. | |
more these challenges -- OBR. That is because we went through a | :18:20. | :18:25. | |
Labour recession, the worst we have seen in 100 years. But do you accept | :18:26. | :18:34. | |
that a recovery underpinned by these things I have just read out isn't | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
sustainable? We set out a long-term plan for recovery, and again this | :18:40. | :18:45. | |
week. We have shown with the tough decisions we have made already, the | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
country can enjoy a recovery. There are still a lot of difficult | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
decisions. The biggest risk are Labour's plans. The March | :18:55. | :19:05. | |
projections work at for those -- for both business investment and | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
exports. Suddenly it is expected to rise 5% next year, a 10% turnaround | :19:10. | :19:16. | |
in investment. How is it credible? I have been in business before | :19:17. | :19:20. | |
politics. Any business person listening will know, when you have | :19:21. | :19:24. | |
gone through a recession, the deepest in 100 years, it will hit | :19:25. | :19:30. | |
investment, profits, you can't make plans again until you have | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
confidence in the economy. That is what this country is seeing now | :19:35. | :19:42. | |
under this government. This is an assumption made independently. The | :19:43. | :19:49. | |
fall in business investment is because of the recession. The | :19:50. | :19:55. | |
forecast increases, 5% next year, and so on, it is based on the | :19:56. | :20:02. | |
independent forecast. Based on fact. If you look at the investment plans | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
of companies, this week, the Chancellor went to JCB, Jaguar Land | :20:08. | :20:15. | |
Rover has plans to create more jobs, these investment plans are | :20:16. | :20:18. | |
coming through now because of the confidence generated by this | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
government, such as the cut in corporation tax which Labour would | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
increase. Are the export forecasts more credible? The 15 years, our | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
share of world trade decline. Suddenly starting next year, it | :20:34. | :20:41. | |
stops falling. That's not credible. I worked in finance the 20 years. I | :20:42. | :20:46. | |
have yet to find any forecast which is fully right. Under Labour, we | :20:47. | :20:54. | |
would have forecasts made by Gordon Brown who would announce he would | :20:55. | :21:00. | |
hit all his targets. Now we have an independent system. | :21:01. | :21:05. | |
Do you accept, if exports or business investment do not pick up, | :21:06. | :21:11. | |
then a purely consumer led recovery is not sustainable? We need more | :21:12. | :21:15. | |
than a consumer led recovery. We need consumer investment to go up. | :21:16. | :21:23. | |
On Xbox, it is noticeable that experts are primarily down because | :21:24. | :21:26. | |
the markets we trade with, the eurozone markets, are depressed. | :21:27. | :21:31. | |
Many have just come out of recession. Or they are still in | :21:32. | :21:37. | |
recession. If you look at exports to non-EU countries, they are up 30%. | :21:38. | :21:47. | |
120% to China. 100% to Russia. Will you keep the triple lock for | :21:48. | :21:53. | |
the state pension beyond 2015? Yes, long term. That's why it is not part | :21:54. | :21:59. | |
of our welfare cap. Chris Leslie cannot answer that question. It is | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
straightforward. House prices are now rising ten | :22:04. | :22:11. | |
times faster than average earnings. That's not good. House prices are | :22:12. | :22:19. | |
rising, partly reflecting recovery. Ten times faster than average | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
earnings, how can people afford to buy homes if it carries on? What you | :22:24. | :22:28. | |
would hope, this is the evidence, if you look at the plans of the month | :22:29. | :22:32. | |
companies, they are planning new homes which will mean that, as this | :22:33. | :22:40. | |
demand spurs that investment, more homes will come about. We need to | :22:41. | :22:43. | |
give people the means to buy those homes. We have introduced the help | :22:44. | :23:27. | |
to buy scheme. I accept the OBR says it will start rising again but as | :23:28. | :23:38. | |
household debt rises again Petr Cech reduces, -- as household debt | :23:39. | :23:51. | |
reduces, we need to make sure there are checks in place. Wages have not | :23:52. | :23:56. | |
been rising in real terms for quite some time. Over the next five years, | :23:57. | :24:05. | |
even as the economy grows, by about 15% according the OBR to the OBR -- | :24:06. | :24:17. | |
but people will not benefit. These hard-working families will not share | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
in the recovery. What is the best way to help those families? The | :24:23. | :24:29. | |
government doesn't set wages. What we can do is influence the overall | :24:30. | :24:33. | |
economy. We don't have a magic lever. Wages have been stagnating | :24:34. | :24:43. | |
for five years. When will people get a proper salary? The best way for | :24:44. | :24:49. | |
wage growth is a growing economy, more jobs. We have more people | :24:50. | :24:53. | |
employed in Britain today than at any time in our history. The biggest | :24:54. | :25:00. | |
risk to recovery is if we let Labour into the Treasury with more spending | :25:01. | :25:05. | |
and more debt. Which got us into this trouble. By whatever measure | :25:06. | :25:09. | |
you care to choose, would people be better off come the 20 15th election | :25:10. | :25:16. | |
than they were in 2010? Yes, they will be. Look at jobs. Already more | :25:17. | :25:23. | |
people employed than at any other time in history. Will they be better | :25:24. | :25:27. | |
off? The best way for anyone to raise their living standards is | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
access to a growing job market. But will they be better off? I believe | :25:33. | :25:40. | |
people will be. Compared to 2010. Yes. In terms of take-home pay. This | :25:41. | :25:45. | |
is a credible measure. Now, what do you think the Education | :25:46. | :25:51. | |
Secretary, Michael Gove, was like at school? Hard-working? Hand always | :25:52. | :25:55. | |
up? Top of the class? Well, if he wasn't passionate about education | :25:56. | :25:58. | |
then, he is now. In fact, since he took office, it seems he hasn't | :25:59. | :26:05. | |
stopped working very hard indeed. When the coalition came to power, | :26:06. | :26:08. | |
Michael Gove evoked Mao, saying they were on a long march to reform | :26:09. | :26:11. | |
education. Just like Mao, they faced a baby boom, so pledged ?5 billion | :26:12. | :26:18. | |
for new school places. They extended Labour's academy programme. There's | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
now about 3,000 in England. But then, they marched even further, | :26:23. | :26:25. | |
creating free schools run by parents, funded by taxpayers. 174 | :26:26. | :26:32. | |
have opened so far. The schools admission code was changed, to give | :26:33. | :26:35. | |
parents more choice. And a pupil premium was introduced, | :26:36. | :26:38. | |
currently, an extra ?900 funding for each disadvantaged child. | :26:39. | :26:41. | |
An overhaul of the national curriculum provoked criticism. | :26:42. | :26:45. | |
Chairman Gove mocked detractors as "bad academia". But exam reforms | :26:46. | :26:53. | |
didn't quite go to plan. Although GCSEs got harder, plans to replace | :26:54. | :26:57. | |
A-levels had to be abandoned. Ultimately, the true test of these | :26:58. | :27:00. | |
reforms will be what happens in the classroom. The person in charge of | :27:01. | :27:05. | |
making sure those classrooms are up to scratch in England is the Chief | :27:06. | :27:08. | |
Inspector Of Schools, head of Ofsted, Michael Wilshaw, who joins | :27:09. | :27:13. | |
me now. Over the past 15 years, we have | :27:14. | :27:19. | |
doubled spending on schools even allowing for inflation. By | :27:20. | :27:22. | |
international standards, we are stagnating, why? I said last year | :27:23. | :27:28. | |
that mediocrity had settled into the system. Too many children were | :27:29. | :27:38. | |
coasting in schools, which is why we changed the grading structure, we | :27:39. | :27:44. | |
removed that awful word, satisfactory. Saying that good is | :27:45. | :27:48. | |
now the only acceptable standard and schools had a limited time in which | :27:49. | :27:52. | |
to get to that. We are seeing gradually, it is difficult to say | :27:53. | :27:58. | |
this in the week we have had the OECD report. Things have gradually | :27:59. | :28:03. | |
improved. I will come onto that in a minute. Explain this. International | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
comparisons show us flat-lining or even falling in some subjects, | :28:09. | :28:14. | |
including science. For 20 years, our domestic exam results just got | :28:15. | :28:18. | |
better and better. Was this a piece of fiction fed to us by the | :28:19. | :28:23. | |
educational establishment, was there a cover-up? There is no question | :28:24. | :28:29. | |
there has grade inflation. I speak as an ex-headteacher who saw that in | :28:30. | :28:35. | |
examinations. Perceptual state is actually doing something about that. | :28:36. | :28:39. | |
Most good heads will say that is about time. We have to be credible. | :28:40. | :28:49. | |
Do politicians and educationalists conspire in this grade inflation? It | :28:50. | :28:52. | |
might suit politicians to say things are going up every year. As a head, | :28:53. | :28:58. | |
I knew a lot of the exams youngsters were sitting were not up to scratch. | :28:59. | :29:06. | |
The latest OECD study places us 36th for maths, 23rd reading, slipping | :29:07. | :29:12. | |
down to 21st in science. Yet, Ofsted, your organisation, | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
designates 80% of schools as good or outstanding. That's another fiction. | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
This year, we have. If we see this level of progress, it has been a | :29:23. | :29:25. | |
remarkable progress over the last years since we changed our grading | :29:26. | :29:32. | |
structure, then... In a year, absolutely. We have better teachers | :29:33. | :29:37. | |
coming into our school system. Better leaders. Better schools. The | :29:38. | :29:41. | |
big challenge for our country is making sure that progress is | :29:42. | :29:44. | |
maintained which will eventually translate into better outcomes. | :29:45. | :29:51. | |
These figures are pretty much up-to-date. Are you saying within a | :29:52. | :29:57. | |
year 80% of the schools are good enough? All of the schools we | :29:58. | :30:02. | |
upgraded have had better grades in GCSE and grade 2. We have to make | :30:03. | :30:07. | |
sure that is maintained. The Government has based its reforms on | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
similar reforms in Sweden. In opposition they were endlessly going | :30:12. | :30:15. | |
to Stockholm to find out how it was done. Swedish schools are doing even | :30:16. | :30:20. | |
worse than ours in the tables. Why are we copying failure? The | :30:21. | :30:26. | |
secretary of state believes, and I actually believe, as somebody who | :30:27. | :30:30. | |
has come from an academy model, that if you hand power and resources, you | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
hand autonomy to the people on the ground, to the people in the | :30:36. | :30:38. | |
classroom, in the corridors, in the playgrounds, things work. If you | :30:39. | :30:45. | |
allow the great monoliths that used to have responsibility for education | :30:46. | :30:49. | |
in the past to take control again, you will see a reverse in standards. | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
You have got to actually empower those people that make the | :30:54. | :30:56. | |
difference. That is why autonomy and freedom is important. We spent a lot | :30:57. | :31:02. | |
of money moving what were local authority schools to become | :31:03. | :31:04. | |
academies and new free school czar being set up as well. When the | :31:05. | :31:08. | |
academies are pretty much the same level of autonomy, the free school | :31:09. | :31:12. | |
is maybe a little bit more, the evidence we have had so far is that | :31:13. | :31:17. | |
they don't really perform any better than local authority schools? | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
Indeed, Encore GCSE subjects, they might even be doing worse? These are | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
early days. We will say more about this on weapons they when we produce | :31:27. | :31:30. | |
the annual report. The sponsored academies that took over the worst | :31:31. | :31:34. | |
schools in the country, in the most difficult circumstances, in the most | :31:35. | :31:37. | |
disadvantaged communities, are doing much better now. What about GCSE? | :31:38. | :31:44. | |
They are doing GCSE equivalents, the lass academic subjects question my | :31:45. | :31:51. | |
cull OK, but they are doing better than previous schools. If you look | :31:52. | :31:55. | |
at the top performing nations in the world, they focus on the quality of | :31:56. | :32:07. | |
teaching. The best graduates coming to education. They professionally | :32:08. | :32:10. | |
develop them. They make sure they spot the brightest talents and get | :32:11. | :32:14. | |
them into positions as soon as possible. We have got to do the same | :32:15. | :32:18. | |
if we are going to catch up with those jurisdictions. This isn't just | :32:19. | :32:25. | |
a British problem. It seems to be a European problem. The East Asian | :32:26. | :32:29. | |
countries now dominate the top of the tables. What's the most | :32:30. | :32:31. | |
important lesson we should learn from East Asia? Attitudes to work. | :32:32. | :32:36. | |
We need to make sure that we invest in good teachers, good leaders. We | :32:37. | :32:43. | |
have to make sure that students have the right attitudes to work. It's no | :32:44. | :32:47. | |
good getting good people into the classroom and then seeing them part | :32:48. | :32:52. | |
of teaching by bad behaviour, disaffected youngsters and poor | :32:53. | :32:58. | |
leadership. We see young teachers doing well for a time and then being | :32:59. | :33:02. | |
put off teaching and leaving from that sort of culture in our schools. | :33:03. | :33:07. | |
Are you a cheerleader for government education policy rather than | :33:08. | :33:12. | |
independent inspectors? I am independent, Ofsted is independent. | :33:13. | :33:15. | |
I believe we are saying the right things on standards. The Association | :33:16. | :33:20. | |
of teachers and lecturers say you are an arm of government. The NUT | :33:21. | :33:24. | |
has called for your resignation. Another wants to abolish or | :33:25. | :33:28. | |
Inspectorate. Have you become a pariah amongst teaching unions? If | :33:29. | :33:34. | |
we are challenging schools to become better, that is our job, we will | :33:35. | :33:40. | |
carry on doing that. I am not going to preside over the status quo. We | :33:41. | :33:43. | |
will challenge the system to do better, we will challenge schools | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
and colleges to do better. We will also challenge government when we | :33:48. | :33:51. | |
think they are going wrong. Many people in the education | :33:52. | :33:53. | |
establishment think your primary purpose is to do the Government's | :33:54. | :33:57. | |
bidding by shepherding schools into becoming academies. Not true at all. | :33:58. | :34:04. | |
You are a big supporter of academies? Yes, I believe the people | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
that do the business in schools are the people that are free to do what | :34:10. | :34:12. | |
is necessary to raise standards. I am a big supporter of autonomy in | :34:13. | :34:16. | |
the school system. But where we see academies Vale, where we see free | :34:17. | :34:26. | |
schools fail, we will say so. The study does not find much evidence | :34:27. | :34:31. | |
that competition and choice raise standards, but it does go with you | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
and say that strong school leadership, coupled with autonomy, | :34:37. | :34:40. | |
can make a difference. Can somebody with no experience in education be | :34:41. | :34:44. | |
in charge of a school? A lot of hot air has been expounded on the issue | :34:45. | :34:48. | |
of whether teachers should be qualified or not. If qualified | :34:49. | :34:51. | |
teacher status was the gold standard, why is it that one in | :34:52. | :35:00. | |
three teachers, one in three lessons that will observe are not good | :35:01. | :35:03. | |
enough. Taught by qualified teachers. I've not yet met a | :35:04. | :35:07. | |
headteacher that has not appointed by qualified staff when they cannot | :35:08. | :35:11. | |
get qualified teachers. Their job is to make sure they get accredited as | :35:12. | :35:15. | |
soon as possible and come up to scratch in the classroom. Do you | :35:16. | :35:18. | |
support the use of unqualified teachers? I do. I have done it. If I | :35:19. | :35:25. | |
could not get a maths, physics or modern languages teacher and I | :35:26. | :35:27. | |
thought somebody straight from university, without qualified | :35:28. | :35:30. | |
teachers start this, that they could communicate well with youngsters, I | :35:31. | :35:35. | |
would get that person into the classroom and get them accredited if | :35:36. | :35:39. | |
they delivered the goods. If we are going to allow schools to have more | :35:40. | :35:42. | |
autonomy and not be accountable to local authorities, free schools | :35:43. | :35:48. | |
academies, don't you have to do... New entrants will be coming into the | :35:49. | :35:52. | |
market, the educational marketplace. Do you not have to act more quickly | :35:53. | :36:00. | |
when it is clear, and there has been examined recently, where it is | :36:01. | :36:03. | |
clearly going badly wrong and children's education at risk? | :36:04. | :36:08. | |
Absolutely. I made a point to the secretary of state and it is | :36:09. | :36:10. | |
something I will talk more about over the coming year. We need to be | :36:11. | :36:14. | |
in school is much more often. If a school fails at the moment, or | :36:15. | :36:18. | |
underperforms, goes into this new category, Her Majesty 's inspectors | :36:19. | :36:24. | |
stay with that institution until it improves. Sometimes we don't see a | :36:25. | :36:28. | |
school for five or seven years. That is wrong. My argument is that Ofsted | :36:29. | :36:32. | |
should pay a much greater part in monitoring the performance of | :36:33. | :36:36. | |
schools between those inspections. Are you enjoying it? It is a tough | :36:37. | :36:43. | |
job. Are you enjoying it? This is a tough job, but I enjoy it. | :36:44. | :36:49. | |
Sometimes. You are watching Sunday Politics. | :36:50. | :36:53. | |
Coming up in just over 20 minutes, Diane Abbott will be joining us. And | :36:54. | :36:54. | |
we Hello. You're watching the Yorkshire | :36:55. | :37:18. | |
and Lincolnshire programme. Coming up, why a senior Tory MP is fighting | :37:19. | :37:22. | |
for her political career after being shunned. | :37:23. | :37:27. | |
And a Labour MP defends controversial claims that some | :37:28. | :37:30. | |
Tories have no right to pay tribute to Nelson Mandela. | :37:31. | :37:35. | |
Let us say hello to our guests, Gillian Smith is a Conservative MP | :37:36. | :37:40. | |
for Skipton and Ripon and Karl Turner is the Labour MP for Hull. | :37:41. | :37:52. | |
There is a huge clean`up operation going on after the flood damage. How | :37:53. | :37:59. | |
are things this weekend? I want to commend the community | :38:00. | :38:07. | |
spirit of the people and for the council and emergency services for | :38:08. | :38:10. | |
working together. I satisfied that towns and cities | :38:11. | :38:19. | |
were adequately prepared? We were adequately prepared but what | :38:20. | :38:23. | |
the government shouldn't have done this cut flood defences by ?175 | :38:24. | :38:29. | |
million in 2010. They should be getting their act together in terms | :38:30. | :38:33. | |
of a deal with insurance companies. They have now done a deal following | :38:34. | :38:38. | |
the statement of principles finishing but there is very little | :38:39. | :38:42. | |
detail. What we do know about that is that small to businesses won't be | :38:43. | :38:49. | |
covered and any property built after 2009 won't be covered either. That | :38:50. | :38:58. | |
is thousands of homes in Hull. 1200 businesses were affected in 2007. | :38:59. | :39:03. | |
They will miss out from this cover as a result of the deal done by the | :39:04. | :39:08. | |
government. Let me put that to Gillian Smith. | :39:09. | :39:16. | |
Many businesses and new homes cannot get cover. If you live in a flood | :39:17. | :39:22. | |
risk area, to coin a football managers phrase, it's squeaky bum | :39:23. | :39:29. | |
time. I would like to pay tribute to the | :39:30. | :39:37. | |
military and all of the emergency services who have played such an | :39:38. | :39:45. | |
important part in dealing with the emergency. I think he is being | :39:46. | :39:53. | |
rather unfair. The situation today is better than it was six years ago. | :39:54. | :39:58. | |
The government has put in further money since the figures he gave and | :39:59. | :40:08. | |
by 2015 120,000 households will be protected by flooding, but the | :40:09. | :40:22. | |
Tigers of 300,000 more by 2017. There has been a meeting this | :40:23. | :40:28. | |
morning in London and the government treats this issue very seriously. We | :40:29. | :40:34. | |
have a flood alleviation plan that is fit for the future. | :40:35. | :40:38. | |
As it fair to play politics with this? This was a natural disaster, a | :40:39. | :40:46. | |
once`in`a`lifetime storm surge. Of course it was but the reality is | :40:47. | :40:50. | |
that the government have a responsibility in these things. The | :40:51. | :40:56. | |
reality is that the front bench of the Labour Party lobbied the | :40:57. | :41:00. | |
government hires not stick at flood defences further this year. | :41:01. | :41:16. | |
The Environment Agency is shedding 1400 staff, 10% of their workforce. | :41:17. | :41:23. | |
Won't that leave people vulnerable? There will be cuts in the | :41:24. | :41:31. | |
Environment Agency in processing and administration but not on the front | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
line. I am seeing in my constituency great examples of public money being | :41:36. | :41:45. | |
used to alleviate flood damage. Additional money is coming in from | :41:46. | :41:59. | |
the private sector. That is what give us `` will give us the funding | :42:00. | :42:09. | |
we need. One Yorkshire's most senior MPs is | :42:10. | :42:12. | |
fighting for her political career. Anne McIntosh will face a vote to | :42:13. | :42:20. | |
decide whether she will be allowed to contest her seat at the next | :42:21. | :42:24. | |
election. This is not the first time she has faced at deselection battle. | :42:25. | :42:36. | |
This town is where the Conservatives can usually depend on overwhelming | :42:37. | :42:42. | |
support. That is exactly what happened in 2010 as they can MP Anne | :42:43. | :42:51. | |
McIntosh took Thirsk and Malton. She had 11,000 more votes than her | :42:52. | :43:00. | |
nearest rival. So why now are her local Conservative Association | :43:01. | :43:02. | |
demanding that she be replaced at the next election? | :43:03. | :43:12. | |
It is very unusual and divisive. Anne McIntosh has failed to | :43:13. | :43:15. | |
recapture the support and hard`working activists to take the | :43:16. | :43:22. | |
Association for word. What do mean by divisive? | :43:23. | :43:30. | |
There is much this satisfaction between all people. | :43:31. | :43:37. | |
There has been high`profile success at Westminster for Anne McIntosh. | :43:38. | :43:42. | |
She was backed to cheer the powerful rural affairs select committee. But | :43:43. | :43:48. | |
her unpopularity with her local executive have led to a formal | :43:49. | :43:59. | |
reselection boats. `` As many as are of the opinion, say | :44:00. | :44:06. | |
the often baffling press releases have been offered by both sides. | :44:07. | :44:16. | |
Anne McIntosh said she was thrilled and delighted to be asked to stand. | :44:17. | :44:27. | |
But the constituency executive said she had been directed to stand. | :44:28. | :44:36. | |
There has been no suggestion of conflict over voting record. I think | :44:37. | :44:44. | |
there is a clash of personalities between some of the executive and | :44:45. | :44:59. | |
Anne. We have got a great member of Parliament who works hard. She is | :45:00. | :45:04. | |
chairing a committee in London. She is well respected by the party in | :45:05. | :45:10. | |
London so why are we at this time trying to oust her from her | :45:11. | :45:20. | |
position? But the local groups say they are | :45:21. | :45:24. | |
fed up of getting complaints from local constituents. This man wanted | :45:25. | :45:30. | |
help to put up road signs. I've never met her. I am a lifelong | :45:31. | :45:37. | |
conservative and I did vote for her. We employed local people here and I | :45:38. | :45:43. | |
needed some help cutting through local government red tape. It didn't | :45:44. | :45:50. | |
happen enough. She didn't help anything at all. | :45:51. | :45:59. | |
Her first election was in 1987 but this isn't the first time she has | :46:00. | :46:15. | |
had deselection problems. Gillian Smith, you represent the | :46:16. | :46:18. | |
neighbouring constituency. Why do so many Conservatives not want Anne | :46:19. | :46:23. | |
McIntosh as their MP? I'm not sure if that is or is not | :46:24. | :46:29. | |
the case. It is not my job to interfere with another MP's | :46:30. | :46:37. | |
executive. Your viewers should be reassured that democracy is running | :46:38. | :46:46. | |
its course. We are all here as a result of the selection of our local | :46:47. | :46:51. | |
parties. This is a party that is making its voice clear and is having | :46:52. | :46:55. | |
a vote. Do you think she is a good MP and | :46:56. | :46:59. | |
should be reselected? ICA very hard working `` what is it | :47:00. | :47:15. | |
is Abbey hard`working MP but it is up to local people to make their | :47:16. | :47:17. | |
decision. But you think local people have got | :47:18. | :47:23. | |
this wrong? It is up to them to decide but ICA | :47:24. | :47:27. | |
hard`working woman and we need more women in politics. | :47:28. | :47:35. | |
Karl Turner, there is a message here. You are all at the mercy of | :47:36. | :47:39. | |
your local supporters. Yes to an extent. I am pleased to be | :47:40. | :47:48. | |
representing a party which is united. This smacks of Tory | :47:49. | :47:56. | |
infighting. I suspect is that booed old Anne McIntosh `` who are `` | :47:57. | :48:09. | |
. Are you in full treated by UKIP in | :48:10. | :48:15. | |
North Yorkshire? Not at all. They have a issue they | :48:16. | :48:25. | |
want addressing and it is up to them to decide how to address that. How | :48:26. | :48:37. | |
do call Ken talk about `` how do Karl Turner can talk about a divided | :48:38. | :48:43. | |
party after the reaction to Ed Balls this week, I do not know. | :48:44. | :48:50. | |
It was a fairly upbeat Autumn Statement from George Osborne. Do | :48:51. | :48:57. | |
you share his optimism? It is complacency. We have a | :48:58. | :49:05. | |
financial crisis. Prices have gone up and wages have gone down. People | :49:06. | :49:13. | |
are recognising the cost of Cameron. The government needed to come up | :49:14. | :49:15. | |
with policies to get the economy going. We have had three and a half | :49:16. | :49:21. | |
wasted years of a flat`lining economy. What Julian just said | :49:22. | :49:30. | |
proves the complacency. People in my constituency are struggling to make | :49:31. | :49:33. | |
ends meet and so will those in his constituency be. | :49:34. | :49:41. | |
We have seen Labour's plans fuel rise for next year scrapped, another | :49:42. | :49:54. | |
year of council tax freeze, further reductions in taxation. The list | :49:55. | :50:04. | |
goes on but nobody is complacent. Everybody understands this is a very | :50:05. | :50:08. | |
tough time but what we are not going to do is take part in Labour's | :50:09. | :50:13. | |
negative approach to Britain's economy. The Yorkshire economy is on | :50:14. | :50:20. | |
the way up. We have seen more job creation in the last few months than | :50:21. | :50:27. | |
in any area of our country. We have seen a very vibrant enterprise | :50:28. | :50:31. | |
sector and I think that we can be confident. That confidence will give | :50:32. | :50:37. | |
people the growth and job opportunities and pay rises for the | :50:38. | :50:40. | |
future. Are you talking down the, Karl | :50:41. | :50:43. | |
Turner? Not at all but some people say this | :50:44. | :50:49. | |
is a recovery. We welcome any recovery in the economy but what we | :50:50. | :50:54. | |
do not want is a many boom and bust. We need more homes to be built and | :50:55. | :51:08. | |
put money into the economy so we have a long`term stable recovery. | :51:09. | :51:13. | |
The government seem to miss the point. | :51:14. | :51:17. | |
Let me read this to you, Gillian Smith. Report by the National Audit | :51:18. | :51:23. | |
Office has cast a dim light on the way some of the mechanisms to boost | :51:24. | :51:26. | |
growth are performing. Do you think these measures are | :51:27. | :51:53. | |
working? I think they are but the reality is | :51:54. | :51:58. | |
that the policy of pushing more money and investment decisions from | :51:59. | :52:11. | |
here in London to the regions sees local areas making the most of it. | :52:12. | :52:18. | |
There are billions of pounds coming to Leeds for education and skills. I | :52:19. | :52:28. | |
think we are seeing money coming but we also needs to work as a region to | :52:29. | :52:36. | |
make sure that we are competing with other areas to get the funding. | :52:37. | :52:42. | |
There is light at the end of the tunnel. The Chancellor said the | :52:43. | :52:47. | |
deficit will be eliminated by 2018. Would we have had that with it all | :52:48. | :52:51. | |
is? Come on, this government is | :52:52. | :52:57. | |
borrowing 198 million more than they ever plans to borrow. They have | :52:58. | :53:03. | |
failed every economic tests they set themselves. The economy has flat | :53:04. | :53:10. | |
line for three years. People are now realising the cost of Cameron. In | :53:11. | :53:16. | |
relation to Local Enterprise Partnerships, we are lucky in my | :53:17. | :53:21. | |
area but the truth is the local share his less power and less | :53:22. | :53:30. | |
money. The government announced they are | :53:31. | :53:33. | |
putting more money into the offshore wind industry which will be a huge | :53:34. | :53:38. | |
bonanza in your industry. Absolutely and I met Ed Davey to get | :53:39. | :53:44. | |
that commitment from them. I suspect he would say he already had made | :53:45. | :53:50. | |
that decision and maybe he had. We welcome the investment because we | :53:51. | :53:52. | |
need the growth in the economy but the government are doing lots to arm | :53:53. | :53:58. | |
the economy but what they shouldn't need doing is giving rich people a | :53:59. | :54:07. | |
tax break. They are out of touch because they are bursting at the | :54:08. | :54:10. | |
seams with multimillionaires who can't understand what it is like for | :54:11. | :54:18. | |
real people and places like Hull. On call's point there `` on Karl | :54:19. | :54:31. | |
Turner's point he knows that we are investing more in going after things | :54:32. | :54:41. | |
like tax avoiding companies. What happened for 13 years? Nothing | :54:42. | :54:48. | |
happened. Don't be lectured by Karl Turner on the rich not paying | :54:49. | :54:53. | |
enough. They are paying more under this government than they were 13 | :54:54. | :54:56. | |
years under the Labour Party. Your party has people like Lord | :54:57. | :55:05. | |
Mandelson who love hanging around on rich people's yachts. | :55:06. | :55:14. | |
Peter Mandelson is a great man. Working people on average are worse | :55:15. | :55:26. | |
off under this government. That's why the Labour Party is saying that | :55:27. | :55:30. | |
we need action to help those people. An example of that would be to help | :55:31. | :55:36. | |
people in terms of wraparound care for education so that people can | :55:37. | :55:40. | |
actually go to work and work pays. That is the deal. | :55:41. | :55:48. | |
We shall move on. Yorkshire and Lincolnshire joined in the tributes | :55:49. | :55:53. | |
to Nelson Mandela. He was made an Honorary Freeman of the city of | :55:54. | :56:02. | |
Leeds in 2001. Sheffield MP and anti`apartheid campaigner Paul | :56:03. | :56:09. | |
Blomfield questions tributes paid by some conservatives. | :56:10. | :56:12. | |
I welcome the tributes that David Cameron has paid today but some of | :56:13. | :56:18. | |
those who were quick to condemn Mandela when he was in prison and | :56:19. | :56:24. | |
fighting for freedom should reflect on their comments now as the world | :56:25. | :56:30. | |
recognises him as the great leader that he was. Margaret Thatcher was | :56:31. | :56:37. | |
among those accusing him of being a terrorist and one of the first to | :56:38. | :56:42. | |
condemn him when he was Prime Minister. Had they taken a stronger | :56:43. | :56:50. | |
stance in the way that the world is recognising the struggle that he was | :56:51. | :56:55. | |
leading, we would have seen an end to apartheid sooner. | :56:56. | :57:00. | |
What you make of that criticism of some Tories? | :57:01. | :57:04. | |
I'm not going to get involved in this bonding to that but what I am | :57:05. | :57:08. | |
going to talk about is the inspiration that Nelson Mandela was | :57:09. | :57:13. | |
to me and millions of people around the world. When we saw him coming | :57:14. | :57:20. | |
out of prison and when we saw him as a leader of South Africa, | :57:21. | :57:25. | |
transforming a nation and being an inspiration to the world. Seeing | :57:26. | :57:32. | |
President Obama last year going back to the cell where Nelson Mandela was | :57:33. | :57:40. | |
incarcerated was I felt one of the most moving images in recent | :57:41. | :57:44. | |
political history. The other thing to remember is the work that Mandela | :57:45. | :57:56. | |
did for AIDS. He became a passionate campaigner on AIDS issues. We all | :57:57. | :58:03. | |
need debt to him on that issue as well as all the other issues he was | :58:04. | :58:08. | |
involved with. Is it right for someone in your | :58:09. | :58:11. | |
party to highlight the politics of the past following Nelson Mandela's | :58:12. | :58:18. | |
death? I want to echo the comments just | :58:19. | :58:25. | |
made. That tribute was accurate. I don't think anyone should criticise | :58:26. | :58:31. | |
Paul Blomfield for stating the facts. Most of the Tory party were | :58:32. | :58:37. | |
attacking Mandela at the time and it is true to say that the former Prime | :58:38. | :58:42. | |
Minister Lady Thatcher did come out and criticise him very heavily and | :58:43. | :58:48. | |
publicly. He was right to make those points. | :58:49. | :58:52. | |
When you were a young conservative, Gillian Smith, was at the | :58:53. | :58:55. | |
overwhelming view that and a lot was a terrorist? | :58:56. | :59:01. | |
I think looking back on history on lots of different issues, you might | :59:02. | :59:08. | |
make different decisions. We could all go back and look at decisions we | :59:09. | :59:13. | |
have taken. Margaret Thatcher decided not to get involved in | :59:14. | :59:17. | |
sanctions. That was because of a belief that ensuring trade kept | :59:18. | :59:23. | |
going with South Africa and that the population of South Africa didn't | :59:24. | :59:33. | |
lose out was her priority. But this man gave inspiration to billions of | :59:34. | :59:39. | |
black people and white people and when you talk of legends, there is | :59:40. | :59:44. | |
no bigger legends to people in Yorkshire and across this country | :59:45. | :59:47. | |
and across the world than Nelson Mandela. | :59:48. | :59:52. | |
I wonder what people will say about U2 when you're gone. I'm sure the | :59:53. | :59:55. | |
obituary writers are sharpening their pencils. Thank you both very | :59:56. | :59:58. | |
much. This is our final gram of the year | :59:59. | :00:01. | |
so I will Tomorrow, the House of Commons will | :00:02. | :00:08. | |
pay its tributes to Nelson Mandela. Our nation has lost its greatest | :00:09. | :00:22. | |
son. Our people have lost a father. The first thing I ever did that | :00:23. | :00:48. | |
involved an issue or policy, or politics, was protest against | :00:49. | :00:49. | |
apartheid. I think his greatest legacy, to | :00:50. | :01:01. | |
South Africa and to the world, is the emphasis which he has always put | :01:02. | :01:10. | |
on the need for a conciliation, on the importance of human rights. He | :01:11. | :01:18. | |
also made us understand that we can change the world. We can change the | :01:19. | :01:23. | |
world by changing attitudes, by changing perceptions. For this | :01:24. | :01:28. | |
reason, I would like to pay him tribute as a great human being, who | :01:29. | :01:39. | |
raised the standard of humanity. Thank you for the gift of Madiba. | :01:40. | :01:47. | |
Thank you for what he has enabled us to know we can become. | :01:48. | :01:58. | |
We are joined now by the Labour MP Diane Abbott. You met Mr Mandela not | :01:59. | :02:07. | |
one after he was released from prison in 1990. He went as an | :02:08. | :02:12. | |
election observer for the first one person, one-vote in South Africa. I | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
would guess, of all the people you met in your life, you must have been | :02:18. | :02:20. | |
the most impressive and biggest influence? He was extraordinary. He | :02:21. | :02:26. | |
had just come out of prison, 28 years in reason. He had seen a lot | :02:27. | :02:29. | |
of his colleagues tortured, blown up and killed. He was entirely without | :02:30. | :02:35. | |
bitterness. That is what came across. That was key to his | :02:36. | :02:41. | |
achievement, to achieve a peaceful transition. Everybody thought that | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
if you have black majority rule, you might have a bloodbath. It's down to | :02:46. | :02:48. | |
Nelson Mandela but didn't happen. I remember FW de Klerk saying that | :02:49. | :02:54. | |
Mandela was the key to getting a peaceful transition. Absolutely the | :02:55. | :03:02. | |
key, an amazing man. London was one of the centres, people talked about | :03:03. | :03:08. | |
it as being the other centre of the anti-apartheid struggle. That | :03:09. | :03:11. | |
anti-apartheid struggle in London, it had an effect on black politics | :03:12. | :03:17. | |
in Britain? Oh, yes. If you were black and politically active at the | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
time, the apartheid struggle, the struggle against white supremacy in | :03:23. | :03:26. | |
South Africa, was very important. Whatever your colour, the | :03:27. | :03:29. | |
anti-apartheid struggle, for our generation, was the political | :03:30. | :03:35. | |
campaign. We have the 50th anniversary of Kennedy's | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
assassination. Mr Mandela's death. We are kind of running out of people | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
that inspired us? I will never forget where I was when I saw him | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
come out of prison, hand-in-hand with the women, I might add. If you | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
have spent your whole teenage years and 20 is boycotting, marching, | :03:53. | :03:56. | |
picketing, to see him actually come out was amazing. Do you think it was | :03:57. | :04:05. | |
more exciting to meet you or the Spice Girls? I think the Spice | :04:06. | :04:12. | |
Girls. What did the Labour backbenchers think about Ed Balls's | :04:13. | :04:15. | |
performance after the Autumn Statement? Luck, Ed Balls is a | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
brilliant man, but I think even he would say that it was not his best | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
performance. But if you look at the polls, the public liked the points | :04:24. | :04:27. | |
he made. The backbenchers were quiet, there was something wrong? I | :04:28. | :04:33. | |
noticed that. It was like a wall of sound, deliberately. They know that | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
under pressure his stamina might come back and it is difficult for | :04:39. | :04:41. | |
him. That is what they were trying to incite. I have had experience | :04:42. | :04:47. | |
first hand, a look at all of these anonymous and sometimes not | :04:48. | :04:50. | |
anonymous quotes in the media. The spinning has begun against him? This | :04:51. | :05:02. | |
is the party of brotherly love, no matter what the Tories say, we can | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
say worse about each other. How could it be that two former aides to | :05:07. | :05:12. | |
Gordon Brown do not like each other? Far be it from me to say. If he | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
wanted to do it, and I'm not saying he does, is Mr Miliband ruthless | :05:18. | :05:22. | |
enough to get rid of Ed Balls? I mean, he got rid of you, he got rid | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
of his brother? One thing you should not do is under estimate Ed | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
Miliband's capacity for ruthlessness. If he feels it is the | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
right thing to do, he will do it. It's not just a matter of... Ed | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
Balls is a big, powerful personality. He's great to interview | :05:41. | :05:44. | |
because he is across his subject, you can have a really good argument | :05:45. | :05:48. | |
with him, a man that knows his brief, his facts. But it's not just | :05:49. | :05:53. | |
about the personality. There is a kind of sense that Labour needs to | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
look forwards more on economic policy. Of course, the standard of | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
living has been hugely successful for Labour. But it needs more than | :06:04. | :06:08. | |
that on economic policy? I think he has been one of the most effective | :06:09. | :06:12. | |
member 's Shadow Cabinet, and he's always associated with the Brown | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
years, where there is always an element about, you were the guys | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
that got it wrong. I think Ed Miliband will be very tempted to | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
replace him with Alistair Darling. The scenario goes like this, | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
Alistair Darling saves the union and then in September he saves the | :06:30. | :06:31. | |
Labour Party. Ultimately, I don't think he would do it. Talk about | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
shifting tectonic plates, it would, wouldn't it? But it is a step too | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
far. Ed Balls would not be too happy. It is not something you would | :06:42. | :06:50. | |
want to do lightly. That sounds a bit of a threat. Not from you. I | :06:51. | :06:56. | |
can't see Ed Balls magnanimously retreating and say, go on, Alistair | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
Darling, take the job I have been after all career. Where do you put | :07:03. | :07:07. | |
him? Do you make him a middle ranking business or welfare | :07:08. | :07:11. | |
secretary? He wouldn't do that. If you sack him, he would retreat to | :07:12. | :07:15. | |
the backbenchers. He might take up knitting and practices piano scales, | :07:16. | :07:20. | |
or he might have a blood feud with Ed Miliband. I don't know which | :07:21. | :07:26. | |
could be. You look back to when he was schools Secretary, you could | :07:27. | :07:29. | |
feel he was constantly fuming. I think he is better inside the tent, | :07:30. | :07:32. | |
looking out, than the other way around. The thing one Labour | :07:33. | :07:38. | |
strategist said to me was that he is too much looking into the rear-view | :07:39. | :07:41. | |
mirror, when it comes to economic policy. He needs to look ahead | :07:42. | :07:44. | |
through the windscreen. That had some resonance? He was at the centre | :07:45. | :07:51. | |
of Labour's economic policy-making from the mid-90s. So it's hard for | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
him but he has to look forward. There is an interesting comparison | :07:56. | :08:00. | |
with 2009. Gordon Brown got in trouble when he said the choice is | :08:01. | :08:03. | |
between Labour investment and Tory cuts. Everybody knew it was between | :08:04. | :08:07. | |
Labour cuts and Tory cuts. In other words, he was not acknowledging | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
reality. With Ed Balls, OK, we can say it is the wrong sort of | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
recovery, but there is a recovery. Does he not need to absorb that | :08:17. | :08:19. | |
punch and say there is a recovery, then people will listen to him? | :08:20. | :08:26. | |
Possibly. We know that the macroeconomics are looking better. | :08:27. | :08:29. | |
We also know people are not experiencing it as a recovery in | :08:30. | :08:33. | |
living standards. No one, not even Tories, really believe that David | :08:34. | :08:39. | |
Cameron knows what it is like for middle-income people to live normal | :08:40. | :08:42. | |
lives. Living standards is particularly powerful because of the | :08:43. | :08:46. | |
composition of the government? Don't go away. This time last year we | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
ambushed our political panel with a quiz. They didn't come out of it | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
smelling of roses, but they did come out rather smelly. | :08:55. | :08:57. | |
Will the coalition still be in place a year from now? Yes. Definitely. I | :08:58. | :09:08. | |
say definitely as well. From now, one year, will we know the date of | :09:09. | :09:15. | |
the European referendum? Yes. No. I say no as well. How much growth will | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
there be? Less than 1%. Father Christmas is less qualified than me, | :09:21. | :09:26. | |
but I will go for one. I will go for a quarter of that. 0.4%. Sorry, a | :09:27. | :09:34. | |
third of that. I am with you, and 1%. We didn't do too badly. What | :09:35. | :09:40. | |
will growth be next year? I will remind you, the OBR has upgraded to | :09:41. | :09:47. | |
2.4%. Better stick with the OBR, got it wrong last year. Well, they went | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
down in March and then went back in December. I'm going to go under and | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
claim credit where it's higher. I'm going to say 1%. Deliberately get it | :09:57. | :10:03. | |
wrong. Given our record, if we say there is going to be spectacular | :10:04. | :10:06. | |
growth, does it mean we're going to go into recession? There is | :10:07. | :10:14. | |
incentive to be cautious. 2%. 2.4%, because the housing market in London | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
is rocketing. It would be closer to 3% and 2.4, mark my words. We'll Ed | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
Balls be Shadow Chancellor by this time next year? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes, | :10:25. | :10:36. | |
I value my life. Will UKIP mean the European elections, by which I mean | :10:37. | :10:39. | |
have the highest percentage of the vote? Yes. Second behind Labour. | :10:40. | :10:49. | |
Second behind Labour. Will Alex Salmond win the independence | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
referendum? No, but it will be closer than we think. No, unless | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
they do something catastrophic like let Cameron debate him. Too close to | :10:59. | :11:07. | |
call. Controversial. How many Romanians and Bulgarians will come | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
to Britain in 2014? Far fewer than anyone thinks. The entire population | :11:13. | :11:20. | |
of Romania and Bulgaria, like Nigel Farage thanks. I'll go with that, | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
I'm confident. A change of tone for your magazine. Not many will come, | :11:25. | :11:30. | |
but a lot here already will normalise and be counted into | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
figures. Too many for most right-wing commentators. I think | :11:35. | :11:40. | |
quite a few will come, but not the kind of numbers that made such a | :11:41. | :11:46. | |
huge difference. This time, everybody is open. They do like to | :11:47. | :11:53. | |
speak English, that is the reason they want to come. We'll all three | :11:54. | :11:57. | |
of you still be here by this time next year? Yes. Would you recommend | :11:58. | :12:05. | |
that? Yes, keep them. And he has lovely boots. Shiny red boots. If | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
you can keep affording me, I will be here. I hope so, it sounds like you | :12:11. | :12:19. | |
have a firing squad outside. I hope so, maybe you will find some true | :12:20. | :12:27. | |
talent. Very pragmatic, aren't they? Let me put this to you, I think you | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
will agree. The coalition will not break now, this side of the election | :12:32. | :12:38. | |
next year? There will not be... They will not go their own ways by this | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
time next year? Of next year, maybe just after. Early 2015. This side of | :12:44. | :12:51. | |
the election? What is the UKIP view? I don't think there is an advantage | :12:52. | :12:57. | |
to either of them. If the Lib Dems pulled out, they would look like | :12:58. | :13:00. | |
there were a lodger in the Tory house of government. I think it | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
would suit the Lib Dems to break just before the election. I think | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
that is what Vince Cable wants to do. I don't think it is what Nick | :13:09. | :13:11. | |
Clegg would like to do. The Tories would love it. They would have all | :13:12. | :13:18. | |
of the toys to themselves. Yellow marker they would look like the | :13:19. | :13:21. | |
grown-ups. The problem for Vince Cable is that he's not the force | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
that used to be after his temper tantrum at the Conference. | :13:26. | :13:29. | |
I will be back with the Daily Politics next week. If Santer gives | :13:30. | :13:36. | |
you a diary in your stocking, pencil in Sunday the 20th of January, the | :13:37. | :13:42. | |
first Sunday Politics of 2014. Remember, if it is Sunday, it is the | :13:43. | :13:49. | |
Sunday Politics. Unless it is Christmas. And New Year. | :13:50. | :13:51. |