14/09/2014 Sunday Politics Yorkshire and Lincolnshire

Welcome to the Sunday Politics, coming to you live from Edinburgh.

Terrorists who use the name Islamic State have carried out

their threat to murder the British aid worker, David Haines.

They released a video late last night, showing a masked man

beheading Mr Haines, who was taken captive in Syria 18 months ago.

The jihadist group have already beheaded two American journalists.

Now it's threatening the life of a second British hostage.

David Cameron described the murder as an act of pure evil.

As we speak he's chairing a meeting of the Cabinet's COBRA

President Obama said the US stood shoulder to shoulder

Alex Salmond says Scotland "stands on the cusp of history" as

he predicts a historic and substantial victory in

As the latest polls show the two sides neck and neck,

I'll ask Yes campaigner and socialist Tommy Sheridan about his

And after last week's last-minute interventions from Gordon Brown

David Cameron, Ed Miliband and big business, I'll ask

And, as South Yorkshire's Crane it's enough to win over waverers.

And, as South Yorkshire's Crane Commissioner

step closer back to Parliament. Is it a lame-duck administration?

Late last night, as most folk were preparing for bed, news broke that

Islamic State extremists had carried out their threat to murder the

The group released a video, similar to the ones in which two American

journalists were decapitated, showing a masked man apparently

beheading Mr Haines who was taken captive in Syria last year.

The terrorist, who has a southern British accent,

also threatened the life of a second hostage from the UK

Mr Haines is the third Westerner to be killed

His family have paid tribute to his humanitarian work; they say he

David Cameron described the murder as an act of pure evil, and said

his heart went out to Mr Haines family, who had shown extraordinary

Mr Cameron went on to say, "We will do everything in our power

to hunt down these murderers and ensure they face justice,

Mr Haines was born in England and brought up in Scotland.

Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond condemned the killing on the Marr

Well, it's an act of unspeakable barbarism that we have seen.

Obviously our condolences go to the family members of David Haynes who

have borne this with such fortitude in recent months -- David

Alex Salmond was also asked whether he supported military action

Haines there is no reason to believe whatsoever that China or Russia or

any country will see their will to deal with this barbarism. There is a

will for effective, international, legal action but it must come in

that fashion, and I would urge that to be a consideration to develop a

collective response to what is a threat to humanity.

Our security correspondent Gordon Corera joins me now

Gordon, as we speak, the Cobra emergency meeting is meeting yet

again. It meets a lot these days. I would suggest that the options

facing this committee and Mr Cameron are pretty limited. That's right. I

think they are extremely limited. They have been all along in these

hostage situations. We know, for instance, that British government

policy is not to pay ransom is to kidnappers. Other Europeans states

are thought to have done so to get hostages released, and also not to

make substantive policy concessions to the groups, so while there might

be contact, there won't be a lot of options left. We know the US in the

past has looked at rescue missions and in July on operation to free the

hostages, landing at the oil facility in Syria but finding no one

there. If you look at the options, they are not great. That is the

difficult situation which Cobra will have been discussing the last hour.

Does this make it more likely, because it might have the direction

the government was going in any way, that we join with the Americans in

perhaps the regional allies in air strikes against Islamic State, not

just in Iraq, but also in Syria We heard from President Obama outlining

his strategy against Islamic State last week when he talked about

building a coalition, about authorising air strikes. And

training troops. We are still waiting to hear what exact role the

UK will play in that. We know it will play a role because it has been

arming the fishmonger forces but the question is, will it actually

conduct military strikes in Iraq -- arming the passion are there. We

have not got a clear answer from government and that is something

where they are ours to discuss what was around the table. It's possible

we might learn some more today as a was around the table. It's possible

result of the Cobra meeting, but I think the government will be wanting

to not be seen to suddenly rushed to a completely different policy as a

result of one incident, however terrible it is.

result of one incident, however their reserve -- resolved to play

more active role in the coalition, that's possible, but we have to wait

see to get the detail. -- wait and see. What the whole country would

like to see would be British and American special forces going in and

getting these guys. I think that would unite the nation. But that is

very difficult, isn't it? It is As you saw with a rescue mission a few

months ago, the problem is getting actionable intelligence on the

ground at a particular moment. The theory is that the group of

kidnappers are moving the hostages may be even every or few days, so

you need intelligence and quickly may be even every or few days, so

other polls last week. For polls were published last night, one by

Salvation, for the macro-2 campaign -- Better Together campaign, and

there was another that gave a one percentage point different. ICM have

the yes campaign back in the lead at 54% and the no campaign at 46%, but

their sample size was 705 Scottish adults, smaller than usual. Another

suggests that the contest remains on a knife edge with 49.4% against

50.6%. When fed into the poll of polls the figures average out with

yes at 49% and polls -- no at 5 %. But some people think 18% are

undecided, and it is how they vote gets -- when they get to the polling

booths that could make all the difference.

campaigner and Respect Party MP George Galloway.

Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Big business, big oil, big banks, the

Tories, the Orange order, all against Scottish independence. You

sure you are on right side? Yes because the interests of working

people are in staying together. This is a troubled moment in a marriage,

a very long marriage, in which some good things and bad things have been

achieved together. And there is no doubt that the crockery is being

thrown around the house of the minute. But I believe that the

underlying interests of working people are on working on the

relationship rather than divorce. I have been divorced. It's a very

messy, acrimonious, bitter affair and it's particularly bad for the

children will stop that's why I am here. You talk about working people,

and particularly Scottish working people, they seem to have concluded

that the social democracy they want to create cannot now be done in a UK

context. Why should they not have a shot of going it alone? Because the

opposite will happen. Separation will cause a race to the bottom in

taxation. Alex Salmond has already announced he will cut the taxes on

companies, corporation tax, down to 3% hello whatever it is in the rest

of these islands. And business will only be attracted to come here,

country of 5 million people on if there is low regulation, low public

expenditure, low levels of taxation for them will stop you cannot have

Scandinavian social democracy on Texan levels of taxation. The

British government, as will be, the rest of the UK, they will race Alex

Salmond to the bottom. If he cuts it by three, they will cut it by four.

And so on. So whether some people cannot see it clearly yet or not,

the interests of the working people on both sides of the border would be

gravely damaged by separation. Let's take the interest of the working

people. As you know, as well as anyone, the coalition is in

fermenting both a series of cuts and reforms in welfare, and labour,

Westminster Labour, has only limited plans to reverse any of that. Surely

if you want to preserve the welfare state as it is, independence is the

way to do it. For the reasons I just explain, I don't believe that. But

Ed Miliband will be along in a minute. He will be along in May The

polls indicate... They say he is only four or 5%, that is the

average. Like the referendum, the next general election could be nip

and tuck. I don't, myself, think that the time of David Cameron as

Prime Minister is for much longer. I think there will be a Labour

government in the spring and the Labour government in London and a

stronger Scottish Parliament, super Devo Max, that is now on the table.

That is the best arrangement of people in the country. But the

people of Scotland surely cannot base a decision on independence on

your feeling that Labour might win the next general election. It is my

feeling. When the Tories were beaten on the bedroom tax last week in the

house, it was written all over the faces of the government side not

only that they were headed for defeat, but probably a massive fishy

-- Fisher. I think the race to the bottom that I have proper size will

mean that the welfare state will be a distant memory quite soon. The

cuts and the run on the Scottish economy here in Edinburgh, the

financial services industry, that will be gravely damage. The Ministry

of Defence jobs in Scotland decimated, probably ended, more or

less. It will be a time of cuts and austerity, maybe super austerity in

an independent Scotland. You mentioned defence. What about

nuclear weapons? The Tories and Labour will keep them. You are

against them. Surely the only way to be rid of them in Scotland is by

independence. But you are not rid of them by telling them down the river.

The danger would be the same -- telling them down the river. The

danger would be the same. Nuclear radiation does not respect Alex

Salmond's national boundaries. They would be committed to immediately

joining NATO, which is bristling with nuclear weapons and is what --

involved in wars across the Atlantic. So anyone looking for a

peace option will have to elect a government in Britain as a whole

that will get rid of nuclear weapons and get out of military

entanglements. We are in one again now. I have been up the whole night,

till 5am, dealing with some of the consequences and implications of the

grave international matter that you opened the show with. David Haines

and the fate of the hostage still in their hands. There are many other

hostages as well. And there are many people dying who are neither British

nor American. I have, somehow, been drawn into this matter. And it

showed me, again, that the world is interdependent. It is absolutely

riven with division and hatred, and this is the worst possible time to

be opting out of the world to set up a small mini-state on the promises

of Alex Salmond of social democracy funded by Texan taxes. Let's, for

the sake of the next question, assume that everything you have told

us is true. Why is your side squandering a 20 point lead?

I will have a great deal to say about that, whatever the result

This is very much a Scottish Labour project, is that not a condemnation

of Scottish Labour? It is potentially on its deathbed. The

country breaking up, the principal responsibility will be on them. And

the pitiful, absolutely pitiful job that has been made of defending a

300-year-old relationship in this island by the Scottish Labour

leadership is really terrible for me to behold, even though I'm no longer

one of them. I don't know how they are going to get out of this

deathbed. Do you agree that if this referendum is lost by your side it

will be because traditional working-class Labour voters,

particularly in the west of Scotland, have abundant Labour and

decided to vote for independence? Without a doubt, the number of

Labour voters intending to vote yes is disturbingly high. Even just

months ago during the European Parliament elections, swathes of

people who didn't vote SNP will be voting yes on Thursday. That is a

grave squandering of a great legacy of Scottish Labour history, which

history will decree as unforgivable. If Labour is to get

out of its deathbed in Scotland it will have to become Labour again.

Real Labour again. I am ready to help them with that. My goodness,

they need help with it. I wonder if it isn't just a failure of Labour in

Scotland. People all over Britain are increasingly fed up with the

Westminster system, but it is only the Scots who currently have the

chance to break free from it, so why shouldn't they? That is exactly

right. They see a parliament of expenses cheats led by Lord snooty

and the Bullingdon club elite, carrying through austerity for many

but not for themselves and they are repulsed by it. They need change,

but you can go backwards and call it change but it will be worse than the

situation you have now. A lot of Scottish people don't buy that. It

is a big gamble. If I were poised to put my family's life savings on the

roulette table in Las Vegas, my wife would not be scaremongering if she

pointed out the potential consequences if I'd lost. She would

not be negative by telling me that is my children's money I am risking.

If I jumped off this roof it would change my point of view, but it

would be worse than the point of view I have now. There is another

issue here because the Scots are being asked to gamble on the

Westminster parties, which they are already suspicious of, of delivering

home rule. Alistair Darling could not even tell me if Ed Balls had

signed off on more income tax powers for Scotland, so that is a gamble

for the Scots. I feel the British state has had such a shake out of

all this that they would be beyond idiots, they would be insane now to

risk all of this flaring up again because whatever happens, if we win

on Thursday, it is going to be narrowly. It will be a severe

fissure in Scotland. A great deal of unpleasantness that we are already

aware of. That could turn but we're still. It would be dicing with

death, playing with fire, to let Scottish people down after Thursday

if we narrowly win. If you narrowly win, and if there are moves to this

home rule Mr Brown has been talking about, England hasn't spoken yet on

this. Whilst England would probably not want to stop -- stop Scotland

getting this, they would say, what about us? It could delay the whole

procedure. It is necessary, you are right. England should have home

rule, and I screamed at Scottish Labour MPs going into the vote to

introduce tuition fees in England. I told them this was a constitutional

monstrosity, as well as a crime against young people in England It

was risking everything. We are led by idiots. Our leaders are not James

Bonds, they are Austin powers. We need to change the leadership, not

rip up a 300-year-old marriage. Thank you.

It's been one of the longest and hardest fought political campaigns

in history, with Alex Salmond firing the starting gun on the referendum

Adam's been stitching together the key moments of the campaign

It is the other thing drawing people to the Scottish parliament, the new

great tapestry of Scotland. It is the story of battles won and lost,

Scottish moments, British moments, famous Scots, and not so famous

Scots. There is even a panel dedicated to the rise of the SNP.

Alex Salmond's majority in the elections in 2011 made the

referendum inevitable. It became reality when he and David Cameron

did a deal in Edinburgh one year later. The Scottish Government set

out its plans for independence in this book, just a wish list to some,

a sacred text to others. This White Paper is the most detailed

improvements that any people have ever been offered in the world as a

basis for becoming an independent country. The no campaign, called

Better Together, united the Tories, Labour and the Lib Dems under the

leadership of Alistair Darling. Then the Scottish people were bombarded

with two years of photo opportunities and a lot of

campaigning. For the no campaign, Jim Murphy went on tour but took a

break when he was egged and his events were often hijacked by yes

campaigners who were accused of being intimidating. In turn, they

accused the no campaign of using scare tactics. Things heated up when

the TV dinner -- during the TV debate. Fever pitch was reached one

week ago when one poll suggested the yes campaign was in the lead for the

first time. The three main Westminster leaders ditched PMQs to

head north. I think people can feel it is like a general election, that

you make a decision and five years later you can make another decision

if you are fed up with the Tories, give them a kick... This is totally

different. And Labour shelved not quite 100 MPs onto the train, Alex

Salmond took a helicopter instead. This is about the formation of the

NHS. A big theme of the yes campaign is that changes to the NHS in Linden

-- in England would lead to privatisation in Scotland. Alex

Salmond's plan to share the pound was trashed by big names. There were

other big question is, what would happen to military hardware like

Trident based on the Clyde? Would an independent Scotland be able to join

the EU? And how much oil was left underneath the North Sea?

This panel is about famous Scots, we have Annie Lennox, Stephen Hendry,

Sean Connery. I cannot see Gordon Brown. These are big changes we are

proposing to strengthen the Scottish parliament, but at the same time to

stay as part of the UK. A regular on the campaign, he was front and

centre when things got close, unveiling a timetable for more

devolution. People wondered whether Ed Miliband was able to reach the

parts of Scotland Labour leader should reach, and at Westminster

some Tories pondered whether David Cameron could stay as prime minister

if there was a yes vote. This tapestry is nonpartisan so it is a

good place to get away from it all but it is crystallising voters'

views. Look at what we have contributed to Great Britain, and I

am British and I hope to be staying British. This is what people from

Scotland have done, taken to the rest of the world in many cases and

I think I am going to vote yes. I am so inspired by it. It has certainly

inspired me to have a go at stitching. How long do you think it

would take to do the whole thing? I would say to put aside maybe 30

hours of stitching. Maybe by the time I am done, we will know more

about how the fabric of the nation might be changing.

And I've been joined by yes campaigner and convenor

of Scotland's Solidarity socialist party, Tommy Sheridan.

An economy dependent on oil, the Queen as head of state, membership

of the world 's premier nuclear alliance of capitalist nations is

that the socialist Scotland you are fighting for? No, that is the SNP's

prospectus and they are entitled to put forward their vision, but it is

not mine or that of the majority of Scotland. We will find out in two

years. On Thursday we are not voting for a political party, we are voting

for our freedom as a country. That is why people are going to vote yes

on Thursday. A lot of people are voting for what you call freedom

because they think it will be more Scotland. You have already got free

prescriptions, no tuition fees, free care for the elderly. You might not

in future have that if public spending is overdependent on the

price of oil, over which you have no control. We don't have to worry

about one single resource, we already have 20% of the fishing

stock in Europe. We already have 25% of the wind, wave and solar power

generation. We, as an independent country, have huge

generation. We, as an independent website called oilandgas.com. The

West Coast has 100 years of oil to be extracted. It hasn't been done

because in 1981 Michael Heseltine said we cannot extract the oil

because we have Trident going up and down there. Let's get rid of Trident

and extract the oil. You are a trot right, why have you failed to learn

his famous dictum, socialism in one country is impossible. Revolutions

and change are not just single event. What will happen here on

Thursday is a democratic revolution. The people are fed up of being

patronised and lied to by this mob in Westminster who have used and

abused us for far too long. The smaller people now have a voice

What about socialism in one country? Mr Trotsky warned you

against that. The no campaign represents the past. The yes

campaign represents the future. That is the truth of the matter. What we

are going to do in an independent Scotland is tackle inequality and a

scourge of low pay. If we vote no on Thursday, there will be more low pay

on Friday, more poverty and food banks on Friday. I'm not going to be

lectured by these big banks, you vote less -- yes and we will leave

the country! The food banks will be the ones closing. If you got your

way, for the type of Scotland you would like to see, state control of

business, nationalisation of the Manx, the roads to Carlisle will be

clogged with people Yes, hoping to come into Scotland,

because in their hearts, the Scottish people know that England

want to see the people having the bottle. The working class people in

Liverpool, Newcastle, outside of London, they are saying good on the

jocks that are taking on big business. When we are independent

and investing in social housing the people of England will say, we can

do that as well, and they will rediscover the radical tradition. In

wanting to build socialism in one country, it really means you are

fighting for the few, rather than the many. You are bailing out of the

socialist Battle for Britain. You think it will be easier to make it

work. Think globally, act locally and we will build socialism in

Scotland but I wanted across the world. I won my brothers and sisters

in England and Wales to be encouraged by what we do so they can

reject the Westminster consensus as well -- I want. We had the three

Stooges coming up to London, three millionaires united on one thing,

austerity. Doesn't matter whether Ed Miliband wins the next election he

said he would stick to the story spending cuts. Why vote for Ed

Miliband? You wouldn't trust him to run a bath, not a country. Let's see

if this is realistic, this great socialist vision. At the last

Scottish election, the Socialist party got 8000 votes. The

Conservatives got 30 times more votes. Where is the appetite in

Scotland for your Marxist ideology question we might not win it. But do

you know what, see in two years time. See when we have the Scottish

general election. You won't -- you are saying you might win and you

went to the Holyrood election and got 8000 Pope -- votes. The SNP won

a democratic election and then won the 2011 election and you know why

they won? Because they picked up the clothes that the Labour Party has

thrown away. They picked up the close of social democracy and

protecting the health service was -- service. There are people in the SNP

who believe in public ownership and people in the SNP who believe in the

NHS should be written into a constitution as never for sale

people in the the SNP that think the Royal mail should return to public

ownership. That is there in black and white. Do you agree with George

Galloway that this is potentially a crisis for Scottish Labour? Scottish

Labour is finished. They are absolutely finished. George is right

in that. Scottish Labour is finished. The irony of ironies is,

Labour in Scotland has more chance of recovery in an independent

Scotland that they have in a no vote. Labour in Scotland in an

independent country will have to rediscover the traditions of Keir

Hardie, the ideas of Jimmy Maxon, because right now, they are to the

right of the SNP as a political party. I understand the socialist

vision, but it is where the appetite is. And you look at the independence

people in Scotland. One of your colleagues, Brian Souter, a man who

fought against the appeal -- repeal of homosexual rights in Scotland.

Another of your allies would seem to be Rupert Murdoch, the man who

engineered your downfall. You say he engineered your downfall, but I m

still here and his newspaper has closed. Whether it Rupert Murdoch,

Brian Souter, or any other millionaire supporting independence,

I couldn't care less. This boat on Thursday is not about millionaires,

it is about the millions. -- this vote. We will not be abused any

young -- longer. Would you rather not have their support? I couldn't

care about the support. You know who is supporting the union. It is the

unions of the big businesses, the BNP, UKIP, they are the ones who

support it. You are giving me a stray that has wandered into the

campaign and are you seriously going to argue with me that the

establishment isn't united to try and save the union? That is what

they are trying to be. The BBC, you have been a disgrace in your

coverage of the campaign. Not you personally. You don't have editorial

control. The BBC coverage, generally, has been a disgrace and

the people. Oil and gas, go and look at that, why is that not feature.

Why is the idea of 100 years of oil not featured in the campaign.

Because the BBC does not want to see it. Are you getting in your excuses

if you lose? You better be kidding. Is this the face of somebody looking

to lose. We are going to win, 6 /40. Absolutely. There is a momentum that

you guys are not seeing on the working-class housing estates.

Working class people are fed up being taken for granted fed up with

the lives of people dragging us into tax cuts, bedroom tax for the poor.

They will have power on Thursday, and they will use it and vote for

freedom. Are you happy with the way the BBC has treated you today? So

far, yes. I have still not been offered a Coffey, but that might

happen. That is an obvious example of our bias. Tommy, we will speak to

Hello, you are watching Sunday you later with George Galloway.

Hello, you are watching Sunday Politics for Yorkshire and

Lincolnshire. Coming up Colhn as South Yorkshire's Police and Crime

Commissioner clings onto his job, we ask whether Rotherham can ever

repair the damage caused by the abuse scandal.

And we will be finding out why a survey reveals a growing nulber of

Yorkshire people want more direct power to be shifted north away from

Westminster. C hello to our guests who are Sarah Champion, the Labour

MPs Rotherham, Stuart Andrew, Conservative MP for Pudsey, and Jane

Collins, UKIP MEP for Yorkshire and the Humber. It is the scand`l that

has cast a dark shadow over Yorkshire town. Revelations that

1400 children were groomed `nd abused by criminal gangs in

Rotherham caused shock waves across the world. But it is the fahlure of

many in authority to prevent the abuse that is dominating thd

political agenda and the man still in the firing line as the Police and

Crime Commissioner Shaun Wrhght He has so far refused to resign despite

repeated calls to do so. False evidence given to the

committee under both is subject to the penalties for perjury.

Demanding answers about who knew what and when.

I swear by Almighty God that the evidence I shall get before the

committee... Shall be the truth, the whole truth

and nothing but the truth. And a fire from politicians was the

Police and Crime Commissiondr. Everybody takes some responsibility

for the safety of children. We all have to work together to do our very

best to safeguard those people. At the time that I was both deputy

and Chief Constable, I had no idea of the scale and scope of this kind

of organised crime. I do accept that things shotld have

been done differently. How can you sit there and ddny

everything you have done. How can you do it? You can't even lhke me in

the face. This week, the Police and Crime

Commissioner and former councillor in charge of Rotherham's chhldren

services faced a direct att`ck from victims.

I have had to live like this for 12 bloody years and what have xou done?

You have still got your job. You should stand down!

It is hard to recall a time when a public official has faced stch

overwhelming pressure to resign with attempts being made to hand

them out office, and yet th`t person remains steadfast.

It is awful but the commisshoner has been able to walk away from the

meeting today still holding the position that he holds. Somd of the

evidence that we heard therd was harrowing from victims and victims

families. I am afraid that the Commissioner is now part of the

problem rather than being p`rt of the solution.

I specifically asked Shaun Wright if children in care were being

protected or there was still `` were still being dehumanised. He didn't

answer. People are not happx. They don't want him here. He is putting

the rot in Rotherham. What I have outlined in the panel

today... So everybody is wrong and you are

the only one that can champhon the cause of these abused girls and the

girls that are still being `bused? What I have said is that I `m more

than happy to stand by my rdcord in the last two years.

But your record is that you haven't even managed to slow down the rate

of this crime. I record shows that South Yorkshire

Police and myself have put hn place a huge amount of work, a huge amount

of actions, ten times more police officers, 20 times more invdstment

than we ever had in the past in South Yorkshire Police.

It is a story that sent shock waves around the world, that such horrific

violent abuse could be carrhed out on so many children under the noses

of people who should protect them. Ofsted call into the council and

come up with things like not fit for purpose and adequate. All the

answers are there. If she h`s found it, why haven't Ofsted find it?

There are serious questions that need to be answered B number of

agencies and because of the decisions of Ofsted themselves. I

will be rating to them to ask if they were aware of those matters

when they decided to producd a glowing report `` writing to them.

Despite clear failings, no one has been sacked. But the blame game sees

no signs of abating. The focus is now on how authorities begin the

trust of those they have let down. In response of criticism `` to

criticism, Ofsted say they have introduced a new tougher inspection

framework, placing greater scrutiny on the effectiveness of help for

young people. Inspectors ard now required to evaluate the extent to

which the risks of sexual exploitation are understood and

acted upon. Sarah Champion, the question so many

people are asking, how long can Police Commissioner Shaun Wright

remain in his job? He should have gone the day this

scandal broke. He has no crddibility whatsoever. The victims and their

families are, apologies for the expression, well, he is rubbing

their faces in it. He is trxing to get prosecutions and as long as you

are staying in the post, thdy have no credibility.

He says he has had more than 10 messages of support, includhng from

MPs. Have you met one that supports?

I have not met one MP that supports. 100 messages of support? I hmagine

he has had hundreds of thousands calling for him to resign. H am not

going to call the man a liar but I do not know of any MP that hs

standing by him. Stuart Andrew, Nick Clegg s`ys the

Shaun Wright case shows that the whole system of Police and Crime

Commissioners has been discredited in that post should now be

scrapped. Is he right? I wouldn't go that far

but it shows that there needs to be some form of recall. This is an

embarrassing situation. The only people who are suffering ard quite

frankly the victims because all they are seeing somebody trying to

protect their position and that is not acceptable. What we need to see

is this man go because I have, unfortunately, worked with people

who have been abused as children in the past. What they really need is

trust to be rebuilt and how can you trust somebody who was in charge of

the children services at thd time this went on? It is not on. He needs

to do the decent thing and resign so we can get on and help thosd

victims. You accept that was a flaw hn the

system. When the government created the Police and Crime Commissioners,

you can get rid of these people I do accept that what we nedd to do

is a proper recall system. Jane Collins, you are a UK

Parliamentary candidate in Rotherham. What is your takd on

things? It's a complete tragedy. Never made

anybody's position. The first thing should be what is put in pl`ce for

the victims and the girls and boys who haven't come forward yet. Yes,

Shaun Wright should go and H actually asked for him to go

immediately. The Police and Crime Commissioner is just a consdrvative

vanity project. They are of no use. We have had a number of reshgnations

in Rotherham but there are still people on generous salaries who

turned a blind eye to this `buse. That is not acceptable, is ht?

Not at all. The thing that really angered me was that when thd story

broke the Chief Executive s`id there was going to be no disciplinary

action. There is not the Chhef Executive and the country when

presented with evidence likd that would see there is no case to

answer. I am disgusted they have said that. The people resigning

they need to be held accountable still. Or let them think th`t just

by stepping down they have `bsolve themselves of responsibilitx.

Including criminal prosecuthons Absolutely. They have been hn a paid

position and have failed dramatically. If they have let them

down on a criminal level, wd need to go for the prosecutions. Thdy should

be hauled before the courts. This is about people who kndw

indirectly as well as directly and that includes politicians. Hf you

knew about this, you have to put your hand up and say I did nothing

about it and you are actually, when you don't do anything about a

situation, whether it is ond child or 1400, you are as bad as the

perpetrators. You have got to get yourself together. What has happened

there is that nobody has had the backbone to say that I don't care

about logical correctness or my party, I am going to do what is

right. I would like to say that thd

front`line staff did do that and it was the middle management that was

blocking them. Labour Party have to be accountable

for what has happened. To md, the arts to change. If you are ` Labour

member in Rotherham, you should tear your card up. They should bd called

the paedophile protection p`rty That is how it has carried on.

That is not helpful. Jane, four of the councillors we

have right now, for the UKIP councillors were there at the time.

One was on the police Assochation. And in 2000 and in 2005 votdd not to

have child protection measures. You know what happened to them? One

of them was in Holland when that Ford was held and the other was told

that it was not in the benefit of the investigation and would hinder

it if he was to push the knowledge she had any further. `` votd was

held. Do they come under the director and

direct accountability then? They tried to do things unthl they

were told to shut up. So under your definition thdy should

go. I would not expect the colotr of

somebody's skin to be important and also I don't think we should get

into party politics. It is important.

This has been going on and there is clearly a problem with the reporting

of these cases and action bding taken. That is why I am glad there

is no this national independent investigation into what happened so

that we can try and rebuild that trust and the confidence in it so

that any victims now, and a pastor in the future, can feel thex have

their security. `` in the p`st. The mother in the film said this has

put the rot into Rotherham. All people think your town is now a

rotten borough? I understand that. We need to get

prosecutions for those 1400 and think there are probably other

people who haven't come forward Yesterday, I met with faith leaders

and front`line staff and we are trying to find ways to rebuhld the

town but it will be a slow process. The thing that frustrates md most is

that now, only in the last xear we do have a strong sexual exploitation

team, but the credibility of that team that is trying to make amends

and get justice for these tdam is just not credible.

I you going to try and play politics in the lead up to the electhon?

I am not because the way forward will be the youth in Rotherham. That

has to be a cross`party thing where everybody works together to make

that happen and make sure there is some cohesion. The other thhng you

have got to stress is that this is not every community in Rothdrham

where there is a problem and it is not individual communities where

there is a problem. Later n`med percent of people in Rotherham are

good. There are a small percentage of people who are abusing the system

and the council. `` 99%. We must move on because whatever the

result of thirsty's referendum on Scottish independence, the political

landscape of the whole of the native kingdom looks set to change. The

campaign north of the border has led to fresh calls for more powdrs to be

devolved to English regions, none more so than in own county.

How much to the 5 million pdople who live here feel they are Yorkshire

first. In an online survey published by Huddersfield University, the

question was asked. Just over 42% said they werd more

Yorkshire than English. Thex were then asked...

More than 62% say they want that to happen. That begs the questhon,

should there be more devolvdd power to Yorkshire? A huge majority said

yes. More power for choosing her things like tax payers monex should

be spent. A people from Cornwall have been

given special minority statts recently, winning any legislation

that might impact on the minorities will have to be borne in mind.

People from Yorkshire feel they have two be given special minority as

well? Devolution yes but does that extends

to calls for independence? No. Less than one third thought it w`s a

practical proposition. That is the Scottish debate having an effect?

The answer was yes, although only just. Politicians feel that if there

are to be more powers devolved to Yorkshire and the North of Dngland,

now is the time to push for them. This was deputy prime ministers Nick

Clegg in Sheffield on Fridax. I think more power on transport

investment, skills, welfare programmes that help people into

work. More power about how xou raise money and spend it. How the mood has

changed is that people are thinking are we devolving more power to

Scotland as we should, surely great cities like this should havd more

power to stand on their own two feet as well.

Isn't it inevitable we will now be seeing some regional governlent

given this growing sense of Yorkshire and as `` feelings of

being from Yorkshire. Whether we want to see it on a

regional basis, I do not know. You could be sucking up power from local

communities. And glad we have had City Deals.

It's giving power to men behind closed doors.

Leeds City Council will havd different priorities to Bradford

City Council and exactly thd same with Wakefield. I think those

individual councils are much better placed to put in the policids in the

scheme is that they want to grow their local economy and bring in the

transport infrastructure th`t they need to support that.

Sarah Champion, would you lhke to see the model pitched ten ydars ago

resurrected, for regional government?

We have committed 30 billion to go down into the regions. I he`r what

Stuart is saying but I do think you need regional oversight, for example

for transport. You need to know that a bus won't stop at a town dnd and

there will be nowhere to connect to. Also business rates that ard raised

in your area should stay in your area. People on the ground know what

needs doing. Nigel Farage campaigning in Scotland

the other day said we want ` system of federal UK with regional power.

That sounds like a European model. I don't like that word federalism.

Nick Clegg sounded like he was reading of the UKIP manifesto

because we are for devolution of power to local people. We do agree

with that. Local government and local power for the people.

I do agree with Sarah about the transport. We are seeing th`t in

Yorkshire. You are also seeing fares go up in

peak time. We have put investment in and there

hasn't been significant invdstment for over 30 years. We all know

that. We all now live in is that needs desperate investment. That

money won't come from nowhere. It has gone to HS2.

The West Yorkshire integratdd transport scheme is bringing

millions of pounds that loc`l people are making decisions on.

Sarah Champion, at the very least after Thursday, what Scotland squad

to get as devo max. Will we see an end to Labour MPs in Scotland voting

on issues that only affect Dngland? I haven't got a clue to be puite

honest. I think it is so incredibly tight. Labour and me person`lly we

want to stay together because we are so much stronger that way.

What will actually happen I do not know. What is your prediction?

I think we will stay united and it will be by a whisker.

Very similar. 48 years, 52 now. `` no.

I think that is about right. But I hope it is bigger because of that is

closed and Alex Salmond will be back.

If it is yes, will you come back in a kilt.

That would be the first timd I have worn one.

Thank London was 150 years ago, otherwise

we would have a dirty River Thames. Andrew, back to you.

Can the No campaign still pull it off?

And even if they do is the whole of the UK now on the brink

I'm joined now by John McTernan former adviser to Gordon Brown

and Tony Blair, Alex Bell, former Head of Policy for the SNP

and Lindsay McIntosh, the Times Scottish Political Editor

And I'm delighted that Tommy and George have stayed too.

No fighting has broken out either. Where

No fighting has broken out either. have three full days to go

No fighting has broken out either. polling day. What is the state of

play? I think the poll of polls is accurate. 49 and 51%. What is vital

is to bring the undecided voters in, and they properly have about

500,000. I think there are a lot of undecided people. I think they know

which way they are leaning, but they haven't jumped. The hope of the no

campaign is that they will go for the status quo on Thursday. How do

you assess the state of the campaign now? The crucial thing is the big

swing. The swing has come towards yes, so will the momentum carry it

over the line? I will think it does, because it is an antiestablishment

swell, and its people responding to standard Western as the politicians

and saying that they want a new way -- Westminster politicians. I think

that yes will sneak it. A referendum can be more important than a general

election, and the Yes campaign have had the momentum. This was the week

the momentum stopped. We started the week looking as though yes were

going into the lead and then it stopped and most of the recent polls

show a distinct lead for the no campaign. A distinct lead? It is one

or two points. It is six in one poll, two in another, aiding

another. The poll of polls is a good way of measuring, and is it

statistically Nick -- nip and tuck? It is the week the momentum stopped.

About a fifth of the electorate That will be a quarter of the

turnout have voted already, by postal vote, and they are running

very strongly towards no, so there is a whole bank of votes there. The

postal votes are skewed to the over 60s, and that is the demographic

that the Yes campaign have had the biggest trouble with. Absolutely,

the Yes campaign faced a challenge amongst the 16 and 18-year-olds and

always based challenge with the older voters. Trust me, I was the

decision the day the civil servants made it possible for the 16 to

18-year-olds to vote, and we said there was a victory for the no

campaign in that alone. The young tend to be conservative by nature. I

think again that to say that the momentum has stopped when you had a

20 point lead, this is a referendum whether people will speak and they

will be heard. Except for the one poll which needs a huge health

warning because of the size of the sample, the momentum is

unquestionably all the way through August is going in the direction of

yes. It hasn't quite continue to get to the 55/45 four yes that Alex

Salmond thinks will be the result. I would agree with John. This was the

momentum stalled. We saw the three leaders coming up, and that kept

Alex Salmond off the front pages on the television and we had a raft of

economic warnings which, although they were dismissed as

scaremongering, they will have had a lot of traction with voters. What

does the no campaign have to do in the final three days? It has to

focus on the undecided, relentlessly. It has to do stick to

the question of risk and keep pushing back on Alex Salmond to say

it doesn't matter if the banks leave, it will all be all right on

the night. The huge question amongst the undecided voters is about the

economy. It is about jobs and currency, about business. That risk

is what will crystallise in the ballot box on Thursday and that has

to be the focus. What does the Yes campaign have to do? It has to drive

home that the swing to the Yes campaign is motivated by people who

want a different politics. They have decided amongst themselves that they

want to change Scotland. The unfortunate thing is, even though

the no campaign has had the chance to put up after proposals, they have

failed. The Scottish people want their powers were a purpose and they

say that only the Yes campaign can deliver that. There will be two days

of relentless campaigning from today, Monday and Tuesday, then the

media, the newspapers, including your own, will come out with the

final poll, the ones that will be the closest to the day that the

Scots actually go and vote. I think we will see more polling this week,

but what is interesting is the extent to which the pollsters are

picking up what is going on in the street. We know we have a huge

number of voters who have never voted before and are not engage with

politics, so what will they do? The third candidate in the election if

I can would in this way, are the polls. They might have a lot of

questions to answer on Friday morning. We were talking earlier

with George and Tommy about the Labour Party's consequences in all

of this. Gordon Brown, of course, has had a bit of a second coming as

a result of this referendum. I just want to play a clip of Gordon Brown

during the campaign and get a reaction. And I say this to Alex

Salmond himself. Up until today I am outside front line politics. If he

continues to peddle this deception, that the Scottish Parliament under

his leadership, and he cannot do anything to improve the health

service until he has a separate state, then I will want to join Joe

Hanlon want in and securing the return of a Labour government as

quickly as possible -- Johann Lamont. That was seen by some people

as Gordon Brown implying he might stand for the Scottish Parliament.

Whether it is yes or no, is Gordon Brown the saviour of Scottish

Labour? I did a double black the other night -- double act with him

the other night, and I must say he was a big beast all over again. He

crossed the stage Meli dealt with the audience brilliantly. He has a

certain presence, Gordon Brown, but he would really have to reinvent

himself quite considerably. He is capable of doing, but the man who

was the biographer of Jimmy Maxton, who pulled together the original red

paper on Scotland, he would have to be that Gordon Brown rather than the

Gordon Brown of some more melancholy events later. Tommy, you have both

been critical of the state of the Scottish Labour Party. Rather than

looking to Gordon Brown, which might be an interim solution, doesn't

Scottish Labour have to find a new generation of people to reignite it?

What George and I are agreed on and you have to remember this question

of independence see us disagreeing passionately, and in most other

things we find ourselves in agreement, one thing is clear,

Scottish Labour is finished. They have lost the heart and soul of

Scotland. The fact that we are discussing with four days to go an

independence referendum that is neck and neck, Labour have failed

miserably, absolutely miserably because they have given up

everything they stood for. The SNP has picked it up. They have just

taken on the bank has picked it up. They have just

that because they are locked in a constitutional row. It is the plan

of the Nationalists to fight the first Scottish general election as

an independent nation as a nationalist party with its own

programme. You don't all go your own way. Why don't you do that? You have

more on your main reason to be, so why not go, left, right and centre

question you are presuming you don't go the one-way. I do not see the

function of the SNP after the yes vote. I think it is clear that there

is an SNP under Nicola Sturgeon an SNP which attracts votes from the

left and that is the one for me Whether that is called the SNP or

something else, I don't know. I think the assumption that we are

going into a mirror of old politics in a new world is just fundamentally

flawed. That is interesting. Let's just bring in the English

dimensional. In many ways, England has not spoken in this referendum

campaign. Whether it is yes or no, it will, and to give you a flavour

of what some in England might be thinking was saying, here is a clip

from John Redwood. We are fed up with this lopsided devolution, this

unfair devolution. Scotland gets first-class Devolution, Wales gets

second-class devolution and England gets nothing. If Wales wants the

same as us, they should have it and then there would be commonality so

we could discuss and decide in our own countries, in our own assemblies

in Parliament, all those things that are devolved. George, it was clear

that if Scotland voted yes for independence it has huge

implications for England than the UK, but it's also clear particularly

after Gordon Brown's intervention, even if it is no, it has huge

applications. You are, I suggest, agreeing with John Redwood that

there should be an English boys It would be a step too far for me to

agree with him -- English voice I appreciate I might have gone out on

a limb. He is the voice of Mars the Balkan from Mars. My own

constituents in Bradford are asking, what about us? All these things

being done, all the extra mile is being travel to Scotland, what about

us? Labour would be well advised to adjust quickly on this so that the

John Redwood types do not steal the show. England has yes to use -- yet

to speak. It's interesting when you hear a Labour backbencher in

Scotland talk about a command paper. He is not in government. Gordon

Brown is going round Scotland promising things and he has

absolutely no chance of delivering them. The MPs in England will say,

hey, what are you talking about We have never been discussed with that?

We have not agreed with that. The only way people in Scotland will get

the powers they deserve is by voting yes. Crystal ball time, Tommy, you

think it is 60/40. I will stick with it, because we have an unprecedented

election. 97% of Scotland is registered to vote. The working

class will vote in numbers never voted before. George? 55/45 for our

side. And if there is a rogue poll, the tek Levesley polled --

technically flawed poll, which should not be published because it

is so flawed, then we would be stretching towards what I am

predicting already. I think in the last few days we will reach that.

Come on. If the no campaign can get the silent majority out, they will

edge it. You think they will win, but how much? They cannot give up in

a second, a moment or a mile. It is that close. It will be won by the

passionate view. I will go for a narrow yes victory. I'm the George,

53 or 54% in favour of Joe -- no. -- I am with George. I will leave you

to argue about that later. Thank you for being with us on the special

Sunday politics from Edinburgh. That's all from us today

in Scotland. Don't forget the Daily Politics will

have continuing coverage of the referendum campaign all this

week on BBC2 at midday. On Thursday night Huw Edwards will

be in Glasgow and I will be in London to bring you live coverage

of the results on BBC1 from 10. 0 pm on a historic night for Scotland

and the rest of the United Kingdom. And I'll be back next Sunday

when we're live from the Labour Unless, of course, the referendum

result is so tumultuous even the Remember if it's Sunday,

it's the Sunday Politics.