Browse content similar to 28/09/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning folks and welcome to The Sunday Politics, | :00:37. | :00:38. | |
live from the Conservative Conference in Birmingham. | :00:39. | :00:45. | |
There will be one less Conservative MP here after Mark Reckless defected | :00:46. | :00:46. | |
He joins us live from his constituency, where he has | :00:47. | :00:52. | |
It has not been the best of starts for the Prime Minister, as he | :00:53. | :00:59. | |
arrives in Birmingham for the last Tory conference before the election. | :01:00. | :01:02. | |
On top of the Reckless defection, a junior Tory minister has resigned | :01:03. | :01:05. | |
RAF jets have carried out their first mission over Iraq | :01:06. | :01:13. | |
On the Sunday Politics in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire ` | :01:14. | :01:20. | |
as MPs vote for war, we speak to the family of a | :01:21. | :01:23. | |
Yorkshireman who's on the front line in the fight against Islamic State. | :01:24. | :01:28. | |
In London, how the richest 1% are pulling further away, and why those | :01:29. | :01:33. | |
priced out are choosing to move away. | :01:34. | :01:37. | |
And joining me, three of the country's most loyal journalists, | :01:38. | :01:41. | |
who sadly have yet to resign or defect to our inferior rivals. | :01:42. | :01:44. | |
Nick Watt, Polly Toynbee and Janan Ganesh. | :01:45. | :01:51. | |
And, of course, they'll be tweeting throughout the programme. | :01:52. | :01:54. | |
And you too can get involved by using the hashtag #BBCSP. | :01:55. | :01:58. | |
At the current rate of Tory resignations, | :01:59. | :02:00. | |
Mr Cameron could be speaking to an empty hall when he makes his keynote | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
address to the Tory conference here in Birmingham tomorrow. | :02:05. | :02:07. | |
It's been a classic car crash of a start to the conference, with a UKIP | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
defection, a minister shamed into resignation by a sex scandal and | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
Ed Miliband's memory lapses now look like a little local difficulty. | :02:16. | :02:21. | |
Here's what the Prime Minister had to say | :02:22. | :02:28. | |
These things are frustrating and frankly counter-productive and | :02:29. | :02:40. | |
rather senseless. If you want to have a European referendum, if you | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
want to get the deficit down, if you want to build a stronger Britain | :02:45. | :02:47. | |
that we can be proud of, there is only one option, which is to have a | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
Conservative government after the next election. | :02:53. | :02:53. | |
And Mark Reckless joins me now from Rochester. | :02:54. | :03:02. | |
Welcome to the programme. Why did you lie to all your Conservative | :03:03. | :03:09. | |
colleagues and mislead those who elected you? Well, I am keeping | :03:10. | :03:12. | |
faith with my constituents and keeping my promises to them. You | :03:13. | :03:16. | |
heard the Prime Minister saying that the Conservative led government was | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
dealing with the deficit and cutting immigration. The reality is, we have | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
increased the national debt by more in five years than even Labour | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
managed in 13, and immigration is back up to the levels we saw under | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
Labour. I believe in the promises I made in 2010, and I want to keep my | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
words to my electorate, not least to deal with the deficit, cut | :03:38. | :03:40. | |
immigration, reform the political system, to localise powers back to | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
the community, particularly over house-building. The government has | :03:46. | :03:48. | |
broken its word on all those things are. I want to keep my word to my | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
voters here, and that is why I have done what I have done, by moving to | :03:54. | :03:59. | |
UKIP. You have not kept your words to your Conservative constituency | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
chairman. You assured him 48 hours ago that you would not defect, and | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
you left his voice mail on the Conservative Party chairman's office | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
telephone, missing to come to Birmingham to campaign for the | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
Tories. This is your voice mail .. I have just picked up your e-mail .. | :04:18. | :04:38. | |
So, Friday night, telling Grant Shapps you are coming to Birmingham | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
to campaign for the Tories. The next day, you are joining UKIP. Why did | :04:44. | :04:50. | |
you are a? I sounded a bit more hesitant on that call than I usually | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
do, and I am not sure if that was the full conversation. But you | :04:56. | :04:58. | |
cannot discuss these things in advance, you have to make a | :04:59. | :05:01. | |
decision. I have decided the future of this country is better served by | :05:02. | :05:05. | |
UKIP then it is by the Conservative Party under David Cameron. I made a | :05:06. | :05:11. | |
lot of promises to my constituents, and I want to keep those promises. | :05:12. | :05:20. | |
That is why I am moving to UKIP so I can deliver the change this | :05:21. | :05:26. | |
country really needs. In May of this year, you said that Nigel Farage, | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
quote, poses the most serious threat to a Tory victory at the election. | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
So, you agree, voting UKIP means a Labour government? I think voting | :05:38. | :05:43. | |
UKIP means getting UKIP. While in the past a disproportionate number | :05:44. | :05:46. | |
of UKIP people were ex-Conservatives, now, they are | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
winning a lot more people, from all parties. People are so disillusioned | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
with the political class in Westminster, that they have not | :05:55. | :05:57. | |
voted often for a generation. Those are the people Nigel Farage is | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
inspiring, and frankly, he has also inspired me. What he has done in the | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
last 20 years, building his party, getting people from all walks of | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
life, sending up for ordinary people, I think deserves support. | :06:12. | :06:14. | |
That is a key reason why I am moving. UKIP are now the agents of | :06:15. | :06:21. | |
change. You said it poses them a serious threat to a Tory victory? My | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
ambition is not a Tory victory. We made all of these promises in 2 10 | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
as Conservatives, and they have been broken. We now hear from David | :06:31. | :06:34. | |
Cameron about English votes for English laws, supported by Nick | :06:35. | :06:38. | |
Clegg as well, but that is what we said in our manifesto in 2010, and | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
we have done absolutely nothing about it. It is not credible now to | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
pretend that you are going to do those things. They have omitted to | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
give every Scot ?1600 per year in definitely. If you want to stand up | :06:52. | :06:58. | |
for the English taxpayer, and really tackle the debt, then UKIP are the | :06:59. | :07:07. | |
party who will do that. But there is nothing principled about this, this | :07:08. | :07:11. | |
is just an attempt to save your skin. You said UKIP stopped you | :07:12. | :07:17. | |
winning in 2005 - UKIP did not stand in 2010, and you won. You are | :07:18. | :07:20. | |
frightened that UKIP would beat you in the next election, this is to | :07:21. | :07:26. | |
save your skin to me you think I am doing this because I am frightened, | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
you think this is the easy option, to abandon my position in | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
Parliament, but my principles on the line? On the contrary, you look at | :07:35. | :07:44. | |
MPs who have moved party before almost none of them have given their | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
voters to chance to have a say on what they have done. I am asking | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
permission from my voters, and I am moving to UKIP because I believe | :07:54. | :07:56. | |
many of the people in my constituency have been let down by a | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
Conservative led government, and that what UKIP is saying appeals to | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
decent, hard-working people, who want to see real change in our | :08:05. | :08:11. | |
country. If they do not agree, then they can vote in a by-election and | :08:12. | :08:14. | |
have their say on who they want to be their MP. I am being open and | :08:15. | :08:22. | |
honest, giving people a say. I am trying to do the right thing by my | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
constituents, and whatever the risk is to me personally, I think it is | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
the right thing to do. It is what MPs should be in politics to try and | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
do for the people they represent. Your defection, coming after Douglas | :08:36. | :08:42. | |
Carswell's, confirms the claim that UKIP is largely a depository for | :08:43. | :08:44. | |
disaffected right-wing Tories like yourself, isn't it? On the contrary, | :08:45. | :08:51. | |
the number of people I met in Doncaster yesterday was | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
extraordinary. When I first went to Conservative conferences 20 years | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
ago, there was some enthusiasm for politics, I remember Norman Tebbit | :09:00. | :09:02. | |
speaking against Maastricht, people fought they could change things | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
there was real politics. But I do not think you will see that at | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
Birmingham this week, it is PR people, lobbyists, corporate, few | :09:12. | :09:14. | |
ordinary members of. At Ancaster, people had saved up for months just | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
to get the rail ticket to Doncaster. People who believe in UKIP, who | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
believe in Nigel Farage, who believe in the team, as agents of change, | :09:24. | :09:30. | |
who can actually deal with a political class at Westminster which | :09:31. | :09:37. | |
has let able down. We want proper reform to the political system, | :09:38. | :09:40. | |
which David Cameron promises but does not deliver. Final question - | :09:41. | :09:48. | |
after the next election, the Prime Minister is going to be either David | :09:49. | :09:51. | |
Cameron or Ed Miliband, that is the choice, one or the other - who would | :09:52. | :09:57. | |
you prefer? Well, what we would prefer is to get the most UKIP | :09:58. | :10:00. | |
policies implemented. We want a first rate we want to deal with | :10:01. | :10:08. | |
immigration. I asked about who you wanted to be Prime Minister. We will | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
look at the circumstances. We need as many UKIP MPs as possible, to | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
restore trust in politics. If people vote UKIP, they will get UKIP. How | :10:19. | :10:31. | |
serious is this? I think it is very serious. It is the old Tory disease, | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
destroyed John Major, and it has been bubbling away again. It is | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
beginning to feel like the worst days of Labour in the early nineteen | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
eighties. It matters, because people care passionately. It is nothing | :10:45. | :10:50. | |
like Labour in the early 1980s, it is bad, but it is nothing like that. | :10:51. | :10:54. | |
There are these very strong strands. People like David Davis | :10:55. | :10:59. | |
writing a large piece in the Daily Mail attacking the leader on the | :11:00. | :11:01. | |
first day of the conference. That is the kind of thing that Labour used | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
to do. That is what David Davis does all the time! But this is authentic | :11:06. | :11:11. | |
in the sense that there is a real, genuine dispute about Europe. Some | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
of us were not around in the 19 0s, but I imagine it is pretty bad. | :11:17. | :11:20. | |
There is the short-term problem of the by-election they might lose the | :11:21. | :11:23. | |
media problem of the general election which they cannot win if | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
UKIP remain anywhere near their current level of support. But in | :11:28. | :11:30. | |
many ways the longer term question is the most pressing, which is, does | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
it make sense for the Conservative Party to remain one party, or would | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
it not be better for the hard-core of 20-30 intransigent Eurosceptics | :11:39. | :11:44. | |
to essentially join UKIP or form their own party? At least the | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
Conservatives would become more internally manageable. And probably | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
lose the next election. Probably, yes. That is what you are advising | :11:54. | :12:00. | |
them? If the reward is to have a coherent party in 15 years' time. It | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
is just as well you are a columnist, not a party strategist. I | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
was an anorak in the 1980s, who watched the Labour conference on the | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
TV. Were you wearing your anorak? Of course I was, that is how sad I am. | :12:16. | :12:20. | |
But once again the crisis from UKIP has forced the Prime Minister to | :12:21. | :12:23. | |
step in an even more Eurosceptic direction. Said on television what | :12:24. | :12:29. | |
he was trying not to say, which is that if he does not get his way in | :12:30. | :12:34. | |
the European negotiations, he will recommend to the British people that | :12:35. | :12:37. | |
we should go. He began by saying, as I have always said, and when they | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
say that, you know they are saying something new. He basically said, | :12:43. | :12:46. | |
Britain should not stay if it is not in Britain's interests. I think this | :12:47. | :12:52. | |
is big stakes for both the Tories and four UKIP. The Tories are able | :12:53. | :12:59. | |
to write off Clacton. Rochester is number 271 on the UKIP friendly | :13:00. | :13:02. | |
list. If the Tories win it, big moment for them. If UKIP lose it, | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
this strategy of various will be facing a bit of a setback. | :13:08. | :13:19. | |
To what extent are Mark Reckless's views shared by Conservative | :13:20. | :13:21. | |
The Sunday Politics commissioned an exclusive poll of Conservative | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
Pollsters ComRes spoke to over ,000 councillors - | :13:27. | :13:31. | |
that's almost an eighth of their council base - and Eleanor Garnier | :13:32. | :13:34. | |
There is not a single party conference at the seaside this year, | :13:35. | :13:47. | |
and Sunday Politics could not get through them all without a trip to | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
the coast. So here we are on the shore in Sussex. There are plenty of | :13:52. | :13:54. | |
Conservative councillors here, and Tory MPs as well, but one challenge | :13:55. | :14:00. | |
they all face is UKIP, who have got their sights on coastal towns. | :14:01. | :14:06. | |
Places like Worthing East and surer and, with high numbers of | :14:07. | :14:10. | |
pensioners, providing rich pickings for UKIP. In West Sussex, the Tories | :14:11. | :14:14. | |
run the county council, but UKIP are the official opposition, with ten | :14:15. | :14:21. | |
councillors. We cannot lose any more ground to UKIP. If we lose any more | :14:22. | :14:26. | |
ground, if you look at the way it has swung from us to them, it is | :14:27. | :14:30. | |
getting near to being the middle point, where we might start losing | :14:31. | :14:33. | |
seats which we have always regarded as safe seats. So, it has got to be | :14:34. | :14:43. | |
stemmed, it cannot go any further. Our exclusive survey looked at the | :14:44. | :14:46. | |
policy areas where the Conservatives are vulnerable to UKIP. If an EU | :14:47. | :14:51. | |
Referendum Bill is called tomorrow, 45% say they would vote to leave, | :14:52. | :14:57. | |
39% would stay in. Asked about immigration... | :14:58. | :15:09. | |
It was those issues, Europe and immigration, that Mark Reckless said | :15:10. | :15:18. | |
were the head of his decision. I promised to cut immigration while | :15:19. | :15:22. | |
treating people fairly and humanely. I cannot keep that promise as a | :15:23. | :15:27. | |
Conservative, I can keep it as UKIP. When asked if Conservative | :15:28. | :15:32. | |
councillors would like an electoral pact with UKIP in the run-up to the | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
general election, one third said they support the idea. 63% are | :15:37. | :15:43. | |
opposed and 7% don't know. Conservative councillors who left | :15:44. | :15:48. | |
the party to join UKIP say it wasn't easy. I left because basically the | :15:49. | :15:55. | |
Conservatives left me. I saw it as a difficult decision to change, but | :15:56. | :16:00. | |
what I was seeing with UKIP was freed. Me being able to speak for my | :16:01. | :16:10. | |
residents. Back to our survey and on climate change 49% said it was | :16:11. | :16:14. | |
happening, but that humans are not to blame. Our survey showed that 60% | :16:15. | :16:21. | |
think David Cameron was wrong to pursue legalising gay marriage, with | :16:22. | :16:27. | |
31% saying it was the right thing to do and 9% not sure. In Worthing | :16:28. | :16:32. | |
councillors said gay marriage was divisive. That has really been an | :16:33. | :16:38. | |
issue here, it might have damaged the party slightly, and I think in a | :16:39. | :16:46. | |
way by setting a rule like that it is a very religious thing and it is | :16:47. | :16:50. | |
almost trying to play God to make that decision. But some of the | :16:51. | :16:56. | |
party's toughest decisions have been over the economy. 56% in our survey | :16:57. | :17:02. | |
thought the spending cuts the Government has so far announced have | :17:03. | :17:08. | |
not gone far enough. 6% were not sure. They are prepared for | :17:09. | :17:14. | |
difficult decisions, but local activists say the party's voice must | :17:15. | :17:18. | |
be clearer. I think the message has to be more forceful, it has to be | :17:19. | :17:24. | |
specially targeted to the ex-Conservative voters who now vote | :17:25. | :17:30. | |
UKIP, especially in this area, the vast majority of UKIP people are | :17:31. | :17:34. | |
disillusioned Conservatives. The message has to be loud and strong, | :17:35. | :17:38. | |
come back and we are the party to give you what you want. With just | :17:39. | :17:42. | |
eight months until the general election, the pressure is on and | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
local Conservatives are searching for clues to help their party stem | :17:48. | :17:54. | |
the flow of defections. Joining me now is William Hague, the former | :17:55. | :18:00. | |
Foreign Secretary and the Leader of the House of Commons. | :18:01. | :18:04. | |
Tories like Mark Reckless are defecting to UKIP because they don't | :18:05. | :18:08. | |
trust the party leadership to deliver on Europe, do they? They | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
believe people like you and David Cameron will campaign to stay in and | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
they are right. They said before they defected that people should | :18:19. | :18:24. | |
vote Conservative to get a referendum on Europe, and that is | :18:25. | :18:30. | |
right of course. The only way to get a referendum is to do that and this | :18:31. | :18:35. | |
is the point, the people should decide. However a future government | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
decides it will campaign, it should be the people of the country who | :18:40. | :18:45. | |
decide. Can you say to our viewers this morning that is not enough | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
powers are repatriated back to Britain, you would want to come | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
out, can you say that? Our objective is to get those powers and stay in. | :18:55. | :19:00. | |
The answer to the question is I won't be deciding, David Cameron | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
won't be deciding, you the voters will be deciding. But you have to | :19:06. | :19:11. | |
give us your view. If you don't get enough powers back, would you vote | :19:12. | :19:16. | |
to come out and recommended? Our objective is to get those powers and | :19:17. | :19:22. | |
be able to stay in. You just get endless speculation years in | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
advance. I will decide at the time how I will vote. Surely that is the | :19:27. | :19:31. | |
rational position for everyone to take but I want a referendum to take | :19:32. | :19:37. | |
place. I understand that. As you pointed out to Mark Reckless just | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
now, unless there is a Conservative government, people won't have that | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
choice. Under a Labour government they will not get a choice at all. | :19:47. | :19:55. | |
Our survey of Tory councillors shows that almost 50% would vote to leave | :19:56. | :19:58. | |
the EU in a referendum. I think it showed, wasn't it 45, and 39%, but | :19:59. | :20:06. | |
again, I'm pretty sure they will decide at the time. They will want | :20:07. | :20:12. | |
to see what a future government achieves in a renegotiation before | :20:13. | :20:16. | |
they decide what to vote in a referendum. Unless David Cameron is | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
Prime Minister and there is a Conservative government, there will | :20:21. | :20:29. | |
not be a renegotiation. That is a point you have made four times. I | :20:30. | :20:33. | |
think they have got it. Your Cabinet colleague says we should not be | :20:34. | :20:36. | |
scared of quitting the EU, but you went native in the Foreign Office, | :20:37. | :20:41. | |
didn't you? You used to be a Eurosceptic, you are now the Foreign | :20:42. | :20:47. | |
Office line man. No, I don't think so! We brought back the first | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
reduced European budget ever in history. Even Margaret Thatcher .. | :20:52. | :20:58. | |
Leaving the EU scares you, doesn't it? Not much scares me after 26 | :20:59. | :21:03. | |
years in politics but we want to do the best thing for the country. | :21:04. | :21:12. | |
Where we scared when we got us out of liability for Eurozone bailouts? | :21:13. | :21:16. | |
We were not scared of anybody. People said we couldn't achieve | :21:17. | :21:19. | |
things but we negotiated these things. We can do that with a wider | :21:20. | :21:27. | |
negotiation in Europe. Mr Reckless says he cannot keep the Conservative | :21:28. | :21:34. | |
promise to tackle immigration. You have failed to keep your promise to | :21:35. | :21:47. | |
keep net immigration down. You promised to cut it below 100,00 , | :21:48. | :21:53. | |
you failed. It is over 200,000 people. We have cut it from 250 000 | :21:54. | :22:11. | |
in 2005, the last figures were 240,000. I think we can file that | :22:12. | :22:19. | |
under F four failed. It includes students, we want them in the | :22:20. | :22:24. | |
country. You knew that when you made the promise. But has it come down? | :22:25. | :22:28. | |
Yes, it has. Have we stopped the promise. But has it come down? | :22:29. | :22:35. | |
coming here because of our benefit system? Yes. None of that happened | :22:36. | :22:39. | |
under Labour. If Mark Reckless had his way, it would be more likely we | :22:40. | :22:45. | |
would have a Labour government. They have an open door policy on | :22:46. | :22:51. | |
immigration. You are not just losing MPs to UKIP, you are losing voters. | :22:52. | :22:57. | |
Polling by Michael Ashcroft shows that 20% of people who voted Tory in | :22:58. | :23:01. | |
2010 have abandoned youth and three quarters of them are voting UKIP | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
now. We will see in the general election. Politics is very fluid in | :23:07. | :23:13. | |
this country and we shouldn't deny that in any way but UKIP thought | :23:14. | :23:17. | |
they were going to win the by-election in Newark, we had a | :23:18. | :23:21. | |
thumping Conservative victory, and I think opinion polls are snapshots of | :23:22. | :23:26. | |
opinion now. They are not forecast of the general election and we will | :23:27. | :23:30. | |
be doing everything we can to get our message across. Today we are | :23:31. | :23:34. | |
announcing 3 million more apprenticeships in the next | :23:35. | :23:39. | |
Parliament. I think this is what people will be voting on, rather | :23:40. | :23:44. | |
than who has defected. Your activist base once parked with UKIP. Our | :23:45. | :23:52. | |
survey shows a third of Tory councillors would like a formal pact | :23:53. | :23:58. | |
with UKIP. Why not? It shows two thirds are against it. No, it shows | :23:59. | :24:08. | |
one third want it. I read the figures, it showed 67% don't want | :24:09. | :24:14. | |
it. We are not going to make a pact with other parties, and they don't | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
work in the British electoral system even if they were desirable. You are | :24:19. | :24:25. | |
sharing the Cabinet committee on English votes for English laws. Is | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
further devolution for Scotland conditional on progress towards | :24:31. | :24:35. | |
English devolution? No, the commitment to Scotland is | :24:36. | :24:38. | |
unconditional. We will meet the commitments to Scotland but we | :24:39. | :24:42. | |
believe, we the Conservatives believe, that in tandem with that we | :24:43. | :24:47. | |
have to resolve these questions about fairness to the rest of the UK | :24:48. | :24:52. | |
as well. That will depend on other parties or the general election | :24:53. | :24:57. | |
result. Are you committed to the Gordon Brown timetable? Yes, | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
absolutely. So you are committed to producing draft legislation by Burns | :25:03. | :25:07. | |
night, that is at the end of January. Will you produce proposals | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
for English votes on English laws by then? We will, but whether they are | :25:13. | :25:17. | |
agreed across the parties will depend on the other parties. There | :25:18. | :25:24. | |
was no sign that they were agreeable at the Labour conference. We will | :25:25. | :25:31. | |
produce our ideas on the same timetable as the timetable for | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
Scottish devolution. You will therefore bring forward proposals | :25:36. | :25:40. | |
for English votes for English laws by the end of January? Yes. And will | :25:41. | :25:45. | |
you attempt to get them on the statute book before the election? | :25:46. | :25:50. | |
The commitment in Scotland is to legislate after the election. You | :25:51. | :25:56. | |
will publish a bill beforehand? We will publish proposals beforehand. I | :25:57. | :26:00. | |
don't exclude doing something before the election, but the Scottish | :26:01. | :26:05. | |
timetable is to legislate for the further devolution after the general | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
election, whoever wins the election. Have you given thought as to what | :26:10. | :26:15. | |
English votes for English laws would mean? I have thought a lot of it | :26:16. | :26:21. | |
over 15 years. I am not going to prejudge what the outcome will be, | :26:22. | :26:26. | |
but it does mean in essence that when decisions are taken, decisions | :26:27. | :26:32. | |
that only affect England or only England and Wales, then only the MPs | :26:33. | :26:37. | |
from England and Wales should be making those decisions. You can | :26:38. | :26:40. | |
achieve that in many different ways. Is that it for English | :26:41. | :26:45. | |
devolution, is that what it amounts to? That is devolution to England if | :26:46. | :26:51. | |
you like, but within England there is a lot of other devolution going | :26:52. | :26:55. | |
on and we might well want to extend that further. We have given more | :26:56. | :27:00. | |
freedom to local authorities, there is a lot of scope to do more of | :27:01. | :27:05. | |
that, but that in itself is not the answer to the problem of what | :27:06. | :27:14. | |
happens at Westminster. You haven't just given Scotland more devolution | :27:15. | :27:20. | |
or planned to do it, you have also enshrined the Barnett formula and | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
that seems to be in perpetuity. It is widely regarded as being unfair | :27:25. | :27:28. | |
to Wales and many of the poorer English regions. Why do you | :27:29. | :27:34. | |
perpetuate it? It will become less relevant overtime if more | :27:35. | :27:40. | |
tax-raising powers... It goes all the way back to the 1970s, we made a | :27:41. | :27:46. | |
commitment on that, we will keep our commitments to Scotland as more -- | :27:47. | :27:51. | |
but as more tax-raising powers devolved, the Barnett formula is | :27:52. | :27:59. | |
less significant. If you transfer ?5 billion of tax-raising powers to | :28:00. | :28:03. | |
Scotland, 5 billion comes off the Barnett formula? It will be a lot | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
more complicated than that, but yes, as their own decisions about | :28:09. | :28:13. | |
taxation are made, the grand from Westminster will go down. And you | :28:14. | :28:18. | |
can guarantee that if there is a majority Conservative government, | :28:19. | :28:23. | |
there will be English votes for English laws after the election | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
Yes, I stress again that there are different ways of doing it but if | :28:28. | :28:31. | |
there is no cross-party agreement on that, the Conservatives will produce | :28:32. | :28:34. | |
our proposals and campaign for them in the general election. Don't go | :28:35. | :28:40. | |
away because I want to move on to some other matters. | :28:41. | :28:46. | |
Now to the fight against so-called Islamic State terrorists. | :28:47. | :28:48. | |
Yesterday, RAF Tornado jets carried out their first flights over Iraq | :28:49. | :28:51. | |
since MPs gave their approval for air-strikes against the militants. | :28:52. | :28:53. | |
When you face a situation with psychobabble -- psychopathic killers | :28:54. | :29:02. | |
who have already brutally beheaded one of our own citizens, who have | :29:03. | :29:06. | |
already launched and tried to execute plots in our own country to | :29:07. | :29:11. | |
maim innocent people, we have a choice - we can either stand back | :29:12. | :29:16. | |
from this and say it is too difficult, let's let someone else | :29:17. | :29:21. | |
try to keep our country safe, or we take the correct decision to have a | :29:22. | :29:24. | |
full, comprehensive strategy but let's be prepared to play our role | :29:25. | :29:29. | |
to make sure these people cannot do not trust harm. | :29:30. | :29:33. | |
And William Hague is still with me - until July he was, of course, | :29:34. | :29:36. | |
Why have only six Tornado jets being mobilised? Do not assume that is all | :29:37. | :29:49. | |
that will be taking part in this operation. That is all that has been | :29:50. | :29:53. | |
announced and I do not think we should speculate. Even the Danes are | :29:54. | :30:00. | |
sending more fighter jets. There is no restriction in the House of | :30:01. | :30:02. | |
Commons resolution passed on Friday on what we can do. So why so | :30:03. | :30:09. | |
little? Do not underestimate what our Tornados can do. They have some | :30:10. | :30:14. | |
unique capabilities, capabilities which have been specifically asked | :30:15. | :30:18. | |
for by our allies. When you are on the wrong end of six Tornados, it | :30:19. | :30:21. | |
will not feel like a small effort. But there will be other things which | :30:22. | :30:27. | |
can add to that effort. We are joining in a month after the | :30:28. | :30:30. | |
operation started, we are late, we are behind America, France, | :30:31. | :30:36. | |
Australia, Jordan, the UAE, Bahrain, Qatar, one hand tied behind our | :30:37. | :30:40. | |
backs cause of the rule about not attacking Syria - why is the British | :30:41. | :30:45. | |
government leading from behind? First of all, we are a democratic | :30:46. | :30:49. | |
country, and you know all about Parliamentary approval. You could | :30:50. | :30:54. | |
have recalled parliament. We have done that, with a political | :30:55. | :30:58. | |
consensus. Other European countries also took the decision on Friday to | :30:59. | :31:03. | |
send their military assets. Our allies are absolutely content with | :31:04. | :31:06. | |
that, and Britain will play an important role, along with many | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
other nations, including Arab nations. General Sir David Richards | :31:11. | :31:17. | |
Sheriff, who just steps down as the Nato Deputy Supreme Commander, he | :31:18. | :31:23. | |
condemns the spineless lack of leadership and the absence of any | :31:24. | :31:25. | |
credible strategy. It is embarrassing,isn't it? Of course, | :31:26. | :31:35. | |
they turn into armchair generals. We are playing an important role, we | :31:36. | :31:39. | |
are a democratic country. Your viewers will remember, we had a vote | :31:40. | :31:44. | |
last year on military action in Syria and we were defeated in the | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
House of Commons, a bad moment for our foreign policy. We have taken | :31:49. | :31:51. | |
care to bring this forward when we can win a vote in the House of | :31:52. | :31:55. | |
Commons, and that is how we will proceed. The air Chief Marshal until | :31:56. | :32:04. | |
recently in charge of the RAF, he says, it makes no sense to bomb Iraq | :32:05. | :32:08. | |
but not Syria. He calls the decision ludicrous. Of course, it DOES make | :32:09. | :32:15. | |
sense to bomb Iraq, because the Iraqi government has asked for our | :32:16. | :32:23. | |
assistance. This came up a lot in the debate on Friday, and the Prime | :32:24. | :32:27. | |
Minister explained, similar to what I have just been saying, that there | :32:28. | :32:32. | |
is not a political consensus about Syria in the House of Commons. When | :32:33. | :32:36. | |
we did it last year, we were defeated, and it was described by | :32:37. | :32:40. | |
all commentators as a huge blow to the government and to our foreign | :32:41. | :32:46. | |
policy. So, we will bring forward proposals when there is a majority | :32:47. | :32:49. | |
in this country to do so in the House of Commons. Professor Michael | :32:50. | :32:55. | |
Clarke, one of the world top experts on military strategy and history, he | :32:56. | :33:01. | |
says there are very few important IS targets in northern Iraq, that they | :33:02. | :33:06. | |
are all in Syria, and we are limiting ourselves to the periphery | :33:07. | :33:10. | |
of the campaign. First of all, just because you are not doing everything | :33:11. | :33:13. | |
does not mean you should not do something. Secondly, the United | :33:14. | :33:17. | |
States and other countries are engaged in the action against | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
targets in Syria. This is a coalition effort, with people doing | :33:22. | :33:27. | |
different things. Thirdly, if we were to put their proposal to the | :33:28. | :33:31. | |
House of Commons tomorrow, and it was defeated, we would not have | :33:32. | :33:35. | |
achieved a great deal. You do not know it would have been defeated. | :33:36. | :33:39. | |
The Labour Party has given no indication they would have supported | :33:40. | :33:44. | |
that. So, you are hostage to the Labour Party? We have to win a | :33:45. | :33:48. | |
democratic vote in the House of Commons, and the Labour Party is a | :33:49. | :33:51. | |
very large part of the House of Commons. You are asking us to pursue | :33:52. | :33:57. | |
a policy which at the moment could be defeated in Parliament. Is it not | :33:58. | :34:02. | |
embarrassing to be on the wrong side of so many of these military | :34:03. | :34:07. | |
experts? Why should we trust the judgment of here today, gone | :34:08. | :34:12. | |
tomorrow, politicians? We have the military experts with us now. We | :34:13. | :34:18. | |
have a national security council, we do not have sofa government, unlike | :34:19. | :34:22. | |
the last government. The national security council is chaired by the | :34:23. | :34:25. | |
Prime Minister. Alongside the Chief of Defence Staff and the heads of | :34:26. | :34:33. | |
the intelligence agencies. And we take decisions together with the | :34:34. | :34:37. | |
people who have the information now. So, you will know what British | :34:38. | :34:43. | |
and American intelligence says about Syria. The Prime Minister has said | :34:44. | :34:48. | |
there is a danger that the British-born jihadists will come | :34:49. | :34:52. | |
back and attack us. But the intelligence reports which you will | :34:53. | :34:54. | |
have seen are clear - Al-Qaeda and its associates are selecting, | :34:55. | :35:00. | |
indoctrinating and training jihadists in Syria, not Iraq. Does | :35:01. | :35:06. | |
that not make the Syrian exclusion even more ludicrous? I cannot | :35:07. | :35:13. | |
comment on intelligence. Is the situation in Syria I direct threat | :35:14. | :35:18. | |
to this country? Yes, it is. Have we excluded action? No, we haven't | :35:19. | :35:24. | |
Could you come back to the House? The Prime Minister said, it was in | :35:25. | :35:28. | |
the motion put to the House of Commons, that if we want to take | :35:29. | :35:32. | |
action in Syria, we will come back to the House of Commons. But we have | :35:33. | :35:37. | |
not taken any decision about that and we would not do so if we thought | :35:38. | :35:43. | |
we were going to be defeated again. The government supports US strikes | :35:44. | :35:46. | |
on Syria, show you must relieve they are legal. Either way the legal | :35:47. | :35:53. | |
basis differs from one country to another, according to their reading | :35:54. | :35:56. | |
of international law. But you have supported it. We do believe that | :35:57. | :36:02. | |
they and Arab countries are taking action legally and we support their | :36:03. | :36:06. | |
action. But I understand your legitimate questions. But it comes | :36:07. | :36:13. | |
back to your basic question, why in Iraq and not Syria. Nonetheless it | :36:14. | :36:19. | |
is important to take action in Iraq. We are also engaged in Syria | :36:20. | :36:24. | |
in building up the political strength of the more moderate | :36:25. | :36:30. | |
opposition and in trying to bring about a peace agreement, and we do | :36:31. | :36:34. | |
not exclude action in Syria in the future. If we propose doing | :36:35. | :36:41. | |
something, then we ask for the specific legal advice. Why would you | :36:42. | :36:46. | |
not ask for the legal advice anyway? Because you have to be sure | :36:47. | :36:51. | |
of the legal advice at the time and also we do not comment on the advice | :36:52. | :36:55. | |
given to us by the Law officers Mr Blair ended up publishing his. That | :36:56. | :37:00. | |
was because there was a huge legal dispute. So you have not had legal | :37:01. | :37:04. | |
advice yet that Britain attacking Syria would be legal? The legal | :37:05. | :37:09. | |
situation is unlikely to be the barrier in this case, let me put it | :37:10. | :37:13. | |
that way. Within international law, you can act in the event of extreme | :37:14. | :37:23. | |
humanitarian distress and elective self-defence, so one can imagine | :37:24. | :37:26. | |
strong legal justification, but of course, we will take the legal | :37:27. | :37:27. | |
advice at the time. watching The Sunday Politics. We say | :37:28. | :37:30. | |
goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who Scotland. Coming up here in 20 | :37:31. | :37:34. | |
minutes, The Week Ahead. Hello, good morning, | :37:35. | :37:47. | |
you're watching the Sunday Politics As MPs support air strikes hn Iraq ` | :37:48. | :37:49. | |
we speak to the family of Yorkshireman who's on the front line | :37:50. | :37:55. | |
in the fight against Islamic State. We'll also look back | :37:56. | :38:02. | |
on a headline`grabbing UKIP conference in Doncaster and we'll be | :38:03. | :38:04. | |
asking which party has the lost to Our guests today are Labour MP | :38:05. | :38:07. | |
for Penistone and Stocksbridge, Amjad Bashir, UKIP MEP for Xorkshire | :38:08. | :38:12. | |
and North Lincolnshire. And joining us live from thd | :38:13. | :38:18. | |
Conservative Party conference is John Hayes ` MP for South Holland | :38:19. | :38:21. | |
and the Deepings in Lincolnshire and First, | :38:22. | :38:24. | |
as RAF jets begin combat missions in Iraq, we speak to the familx of a | :38:25. | :38:39. | |
Yorkshireman who's already fighting on the front line against the terror | :38:40. | :38:42. | |
group known as Islamic Statd. They're warning that doing nothing | :38:43. | :38:44. | |
in the fight against the militants This is is a mixed on the front | :38:45. | :39:02. | |
line. They filled a refuse truck with bombs and drive it tow`rds | :39:03. | :39:08. | |
Kurdish fighters. This that it has been given to us by a man whose | :39:09. | :39:13. | |
cousin is fighting against the Islamic group. He had no idda that | :39:14. | :39:21. | |
his cousin, who had lived in west Yorkshire for 12 years, gond to the | :39:22. | :39:24. | |
Middle East to fight. He only realised when he saw him on the | :39:25. | :39:29. | |
news. Here's some video of him, he had an interview. I am from | :39:30. | :39:36. | |
Kurdistan but I lived in Ledds for 12 years and Aussie terrorists. . | :39:37. | :39:46. | |
He is a member of the Kurdish peshmerga, the armed fighters of the | :39:47. | :39:54. | |
regional authority. So far three members of our family have been | :39:55. | :40:03. | |
killed by Isis. But as I mentioned, even if hundreds of my family were | :40:04. | :40:07. | |
killed, I would be proud because we are doing everything against them, | :40:08. | :40:11. | |
we fight to death. Islamic State has a repetition for barbaric khllings | :40:12. | :40:16. | |
which they post online, bringing terror to the Middle East and across | :40:17. | :40:20. | |
the globe. They do something, it's like butchery, in fact. When they | :40:21. | :40:28. | |
leave any place, you can sed bodies without head. The Kurdish pdshmerga | :40:29. | :40:34. | |
right now are fighting for `ll the world. If the peshmerga don't stop | :40:35. | :40:39. | |
the fight, they will come to you. The most serious thing is if Isis | :40:40. | :40:45. | |
Cross the peshmerga, they whll definitely be here. I thought echoed | :40:46. | :40:48. | |
by his cousin. Do you think we should be | :40:49. | :41:07. | |
encouraging young men from Xorkshire and elsewhere to join groups like | :41:08. | :41:11. | |
the Kurdish peshmerga in thdir fight? Know, to be honest more what | :41:12. | :41:17. | |
I want to make clear is we absolutely support the decision made | :41:18. | :41:27. | |
by the government as you well know. Islamic State is a murderous | :41:28. | :41:31. | |
organisation, it has taken British aid workers hostage, we havd seen | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
David Haines beheaded in an outrageous act of terrorism, we | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
believe the stability of thd region is under threat because of them and | :41:41. | :41:45. | |
ultimately UK national security So as far as I'm concerned we `re | :41:46. | :41:49. | |
focused on making sure the TK Government gets its reaction to that | :41:50. | :41:54. | |
proportionately right, we do watch this as a major deal with this | :41:55. | :41:59. | |
problem in conjunction and coalition with our international partners | :42:00. | :42:05. | |
Amjad Bashir, how difficult is it to make the decision, we're telling | :42:06. | :42:10. | |
young people not to join jihadist groups in the Middle East, can you | :42:11. | :42:14. | |
tell people not to join the Kurds even though they are fighting | :42:15. | :42:20. | |
against our enemy? It just shows you the difficulty involved. I think the | :42:21. | :42:24. | |
whole situation is a mess, created by our invasion in the year 200 , | :42:25. | :42:32. | |
which everybody deemed an illegal invasion anyway. It split the | :42:33. | :42:37. | |
country into an ethnic divide, a religious divide, it should be | :42:38. | :42:40. | |
sorted out by the regional powers there, we are interfering in a Civil | :42:41. | :42:49. | |
War. We shouldn't be there. Let s go live to the Conservative Party | :42:50. | :42:54. | |
conference. You represent a Lincolnshire constituency, | :42:55. | :42:57. | |
Lincolnshire is a military county, with a number of RAF bases, is there | :42:58. | :43:02. | |
a real appetite for war in xour part of the world? I'm a member of the | :43:03. | :43:10. | |
British Legion in Holbeach `ctually, and as you said, Lincolnshire has a | :43:11. | :43:13. | |
proud history in respect of the RAF. But what you just heard, it | :43:14. | :43:22. | |
seemed to me from the revishons to the UKIP was quite outrageots. The | :43:23. | :43:28. | |
idea that we shouldn't intervene when British citizens are bding | :43:29. | :43:31. | |
kidnapped and butchered is preposterous. What you saw last | :43:32. | :43:36. | |
Friday was honoured at its best the main parliaments coming togdther, | :43:37. | :43:42. | |
recognising this needs to bd proportionate `` the main p`rties | :43:43. | :43:46. | |
coming together. But not stdpping back and saying we should do | :43:47. | :43:50. | |
nothing. I think the previots speaker should apologise for that. | :43:51. | :43:55. | |
Are you going to apologise? Not at all. We have inflamed the shtuation, | :43:56. | :44:00. | |
we have gone in there again and again over the last century, we have | :44:01. | :44:06. | |
pondered the Iraqis again and again. We have done right in Europd. We | :44:07. | :44:12. | |
brought Europe together, th`t's what should happen in the Middle East as | :44:13. | :44:16. | |
well. Our interference is not welcome. Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Iran, | :44:17. | :44:24. | |
Syria, those are the people who should put that right, not ts. And | :44:25. | :44:31. | |
far from stopping people gohng across, you are radicalising | :44:32. | :44:35. | |
people, because they will interpret this as the invasion from the West. | :44:36. | :44:41. | |
If we don't want to radicalhse the youth, we want to stay out over | :44:42. | :44:45. | |
disputes like this, let the regional players sorted out. Let me just ask | :44:46. | :44:54. | |
Angela Smith, do you believd there is a danger that a new generation of | :44:55. | :44:57. | |
Muslims could become radicalised because of this? I think it is | :44:58. | :45:03. | |
outrageous for UKIP to suggdst that the UK Government and an | :45:04. | :45:05. | |
international coalition, put together to fight Isis, could be | :45:06. | :45:09. | |
responsible for radicalising British youth. That does not stand tp to | :45:10. | :45:19. | |
scrutiny. You are outrageous. There is support from within the region | :45:20. | :45:22. | |
thought we are doing now. Wd have been asked by Iraqi governmdnt to | :45:23. | :45:27. | |
take action, to support thel in building their ability to fhght Isis | :45:28. | :45:34. | |
on the ground. So how support is designed to give the Iraqi | :45:35. | :45:37. | |
government the support it ndeds so it can effectively fight Ishs. It's | :45:38. | :45:43. | |
not just Iraq, we're seeing other Middle Eastern states joining the | :45:44. | :45:49. | |
coalition. So it's not true, the region has asked for our support. In | :45:50. | :45:54. | |
the year 2003, her party, Tony Blair, said we were going to Iraq | :45:55. | :45:58. | |
because they were weapons of mass destruction, that was not true. Then | :45:59. | :46:03. | |
mission creep came in, then it was changing regimes. Isis was there | :46:04. | :46:09. | |
before, there wasn't Al`Qaeda there, we have created it by going in there | :46:10. | :46:17. | |
in an illegal war. There is no question that this is a leg`l | :46:18. | :46:24. | |
situation. This is going to last years according to the Primd | :46:25. | :46:29. | |
Minister, not months. This hs a legal decision, because we were | :46:30. | :46:33. | |
invited to take this action by the Iraqi government. Morally wrong If | :46:34. | :46:41. | |
it is morally wrong to fight people who are torturing, murdering and | :46:42. | :46:44. | |
raping people, I have to qudstion your morals. If we're not going to | :46:45. | :46:47. | |
intervene now, when are we? At what point are these people going to be | :46:48. | :46:53. | |
so barbarous that we can justify taking action? What you havd heard | :46:54. | :46:57. | |
from the UKIP MEP is a disgrace it just typical of his party. H have | :46:58. | :47:04. | |
situation is a front, that was situation is a front, that was | :47:05. | :47:07. | |
another silly thing to say. Until they start getting serious, they | :47:08. | :47:13. | |
will always be a fringe party. He is morally wrong because Isis hs an | :47:14. | :47:19. | |
organisation which is out of order, which I oppose, what we are saying | :47:20. | :47:26. | |
is we shouldn't be involved. But you don't want to do anything about it. | :47:27. | :47:31. | |
The regimes, like Saudi Arabia, why aren't they bombing? Why isn't | :47:32. | :47:38. | |
Turkey bombing? Why are we, thousands of miles of, riskhng our | :47:39. | :47:46. | |
young men and exposing oursdlves? Can I just say that at the heart of | :47:47. | :47:50. | |
this, we're talking about British aid workers who are at risk in Iraq | :47:51. | :47:55. | |
because of the current situ`tion. Alan Henning is being held hostage, | :47:56. | :48:04. | |
on it to our own situations to our situations `` we owe it to our own | :48:05. | :48:12. | |
citizens. You should have hdld back. Can I make a point? We are doing | :48:13. | :48:20. | |
this at the invitation of the Iraqi government. It makes it a completely | :48:21. | :48:23. | |
legal intervention and we are doing it... This is cynical. You have not | :48:24. | :48:29. | |
thought about Alan Henning's wife and children, you have done this | :48:30. | :48:36. | |
bombing... This is going to dominate the political agenda for ye`rs, we | :48:37. | :48:46. | |
will come back to it. The ddfection of the Tory MP Mark reckless was the | :48:47. | :48:54. | |
highlight of the UKIP conference. All eyes on the contest to dlect a | :48:55. | :48:59. | |
new police and crime commission in South Yorkshire. Feeling confident? | :49:00. | :49:10. | |
Ask me afterwards. It's intdresting, most people are fearful abott public | :49:11. | :49:14. | |
speaking, what they have to say at a wedding. They'll assume that | :49:15. | :49:19. | |
politicians are different breed and it's easy for us and not sc`red I | :49:20. | :49:24. | |
am skint, or write? It didn't show as he stepped onto the platform for | :49:25. | :49:29. | |
the most important speech in the history of his party. It was the | :49:30. | :49:32. | |
biggest conference the partx has ever held, and the venue, couple of | :49:33. | :49:39. | |
hundred yards from Ed Milib`nd's constituency, was provocative. They | :49:40. | :49:45. | |
have been too many in the mddia who say that you gets vote from Tories, | :49:46. | :49:52. | |
as you well know, we have increasingly been taking sole big | :49:53. | :49:55. | |
chunks out of the Labour vote in the North. So we have a conference in Ed | :49:56. | :50:01. | |
Miliband's constituency to say that if you are a traditional Labour | :50:02. | :50:06. | |
voter, your party is not st`nding up for you on many of the key hssues. | :50:07. | :50:11. | |
Without question you could did well to come second in those by`dlections | :50:12. | :50:16. | |
in South Yorkshire, in Barnsley and Rotherham in 2011 and 2012 but the | :50:17. | :50:20. | |
evidence that that was at the expense of Labour rather th`n the | :50:21. | :50:24. | |
Conservatives and Liberal Ddmocrats is patchy at best. That is comfort | :50:25. | :50:29. | |
for lonely because fast forward to the European elections of M`y this | :50:30. | :50:32. | |
year, it's clear that UKIP hs catching up fast. Votes werd by each | :50:33. | :50:45. | |
All this before the damaging political nightmare for Labour in | :50:46. | :51:09. | |
Rotherham, the Labour, said counsel under fire for failing to t`ckle | :51:10. | :51:14. | |
years of sexual abuse on hundreds of young girls in the town. Yot are an | :51:15. | :51:20. | |
MP says she's afraid that UKIP will now take over her seat on the back | :51:21. | :51:26. | |
of this. Of course we will fight the seats in Rotherham and will fight | :51:27. | :51:29. | |
them on our values, with thd things we offer, with great MPs who have | :51:30. | :51:33. | |
spoken out eloquently about what happened there. But the priority is | :51:34. | :51:38. | |
getting things right for thd victims of this terrible abuse. Replacing | :51:39. | :51:42. | |
this man will show how much damage has been done. Shaun Wright, the | :51:43. | :51:48. | |
Police and Crime Commissiondr, once the cancer in charge of children's | :51:49. | :51:54. | |
services, has now finally rdsigned. `` wants the counsellor. Labour | :51:55. | :52:00. | |
chose a boxing gym to announce the by`election. I'm that assochated | :52:01. | :52:07. | |
with Rotherham or their counsel or the South Yorkshire Police force, I | :52:08. | :52:12. | |
coming as a person free of `ll that `` I am not associated. I h`ve my | :52:13. | :52:16. | |
views about all that, my job is to ensure that what is discovered is | :52:17. | :52:22. | |
dealt with and followed through He said he doesn't want it to be a | :52:23. | :52:29. | |
witchhunt. To be honest, he would say that, wouldn't he? He would | :52:30. | :52:34. | |
because there are Labour politicians they're hiding things. UKIP and | :52:35. | :52:41. | |
Labour are likely to be a two horse race to fill the 20 months or so | :52:42. | :52:45. | |
before the next scheduled elections for Police and Crime Commissioner. | :52:46. | :52:51. | |
Other parties have yet to rdlease their runners. The Lib Dems say they | :52:52. | :52:56. | |
will not bother. Labour havd already announced it wants to abolish every | :52:57. | :53:04. | |
Commissioner across the country Let's go back to the Tory | :53:05. | :53:10. | |
conference. You are a senior adviser to David Cameron. With UKIP | :53:11. | :53:13. | |
threatening more defections from your party, is it squeaky btm time? | :53:14. | :53:20. | |
There is only get be one or two people walking down Downing Street, | :53:21. | :53:26. | |
Ed Miliband or David Cameron. The only way to ensure it's not Ed | :53:27. | :53:31. | |
Miliband is to vote Conserv`tive. That also means we can conthnue with | :53:32. | :53:40. | |
our long`term economic plan, millions more apprenticeships, I was | :53:41. | :53:43. | |
part of that, there are reasons are making sure the Conservativds | :53:44. | :53:47. | |
presented a plan and stopping Labour get into power. Do you fear that | :53:48. | :53:53. | |
some Labour figures not affdct to UKIP? I don't. Let's be cle`r about | :53:54. | :53:59. | |
UKIP, it's more Tory than the Tories. If you look at the figures, | :54:00. | :54:07. | |
24 Tory funders have given 2.25 million pounds to UKIP, and Tory | :54:08. | :54:14. | |
bankers have donated over ?700, 00 of that total. The things they stand | :54:15. | :54:23. | |
for will deliver what I think is the extreme end of Tory values `nd I | :54:24. | :54:26. | |
think it would be damaging for the country if that were to be the case. | :54:27. | :54:31. | |
I'm confident that Ed Milib`nd will be walking down the steps of Downing | :54:32. | :54:38. | |
Street next May. I've heard criticism from Labour figurds | :54:39. | :54:42. | |
suggesting people in UKIP whll the Rotherham abuse scandal for unfair | :54:43. | :54:49. | |
game, is that fair? It is not, it's a serious subject, a lot of girls | :54:50. | :54:53. | |
have been abused over the l`st 6 years. It's political correctness | :54:54. | :54:59. | |
gone mad. The Labour Party have hidden the fact that a lot of Asian | :55:00. | :55:01. | |
men were involved, these were supporters of the Labour Party. The | :55:02. | :55:06. | |
Labour Party should have protected these former girls and faildd to do | :55:07. | :55:11. | |
so. They should have acted `gainst Shaun Wright, they didn't rdmove | :55:12. | :55:16. | |
him, they should have held tp their hands and taken action and hnstead | :55:17. | :55:22. | |
and protect these Asian paedophiles and protect these Asian paedophiles | :55:23. | :55:26. | |
and these people who went against these girls, but them about and | :55:27. | :55:31. | |
abused them, it's Labour Party at fault and it is Baltics, because it | :55:32. | :55:41. | |
is politicians who gave people jobs to protect the girls and thdy didn't | :55:42. | :55:47. | |
do so. It would be a disastdr if Labour lost the Police and Crime | :55:48. | :55:55. | |
Commissioner leadership? Festival, when the report was released a few | :55:56. | :55:59. | |
weeks ago, we were absolutely clear that Shaun Wright should resign and | :56:00. | :56:03. | |
he resigned from the Labour Party and the position, you should have | :56:04. | :56:08. | |
gone straight away but he dhdn't, and he has now. We are confhdent | :56:09. | :56:16. | |
that with our new candidate, we have somebody who can start the very | :56:17. | :56:19. | |
important work of ensuring that we do get this right now, South | :56:20. | :56:24. | |
Yorkshire Police have a rold in all Yorkshire Police have a rold in all | :56:25. | :56:28. | |
of this and it wasn't up to standard, I think Alan Billhngs is | :56:29. | :56:35. | |
not a politician, his work hs in the community with the youth Justice | :56:36. | :56:39. | |
board, he is perfectly placdd now to deliver what is needed to ddliver | :56:40. | :56:47. | |
what is a difficult situation. Going back to the UKIP thread, wotldn t | :56:48. | :56:49. | |
you say to a colleague who said they are considering joining UKIP. | :56:50. | :56:57. | |
How would you talk them out of it? I would simply say, that is an | :56:58. | :57:03. | |
irrational, a logical thing to do if you want to secure a better future | :57:04. | :57:07. | |
for our country. By retaining this government, the long`term economic | :57:08. | :57:14. | |
plan is delivering. We will have the stronger stick on in Europe next | :57:15. | :57:19. | |
year, we already have the strongest economy of the advanced countries, | :57:20. | :57:24. | |
we are cutting unemployment, creating more apprenticeships, we | :57:25. | :57:29. | |
kept taxes down, taken 3 million people out of tax. If you w`nt to | :57:30. | :57:35. | |
continue with that, you havd too re`elected this government. It is | :57:36. | :57:41. | |
Miliband or Cameron, and I wanted to be Cameron. You are not consist form | :57:42. | :57:51. | |
the next government. You have lost two MPs already and he will lose | :57:52. | :57:55. | |
several more and you will lose the next election. UKIP are going to be | :57:56. | :57:59. | |
the power brokers next year. What is your response? As I said, in a | :58:00. | :58:06. | |
general election, are chooshng a government. Fringe parties `t a | :58:07. | :58:11. | |
certain degree of colour to politics, that is the best xou can | :58:12. | :58:17. | |
say about the UKIP candidatd, he's colourful and has ordered vhews but | :58:18. | :58:20. | |
frankly he will not be part of the next government. `` odd views. I got | :58:21. | :58:31. | |
nearly 430,000 votes of the European elections, we wonder is, we trounced | :58:32. | :58:33. | |
you and trounced Labour and we will do the same next year. Lest we | :58:34. | :58:41. | |
forget, Ed Miliband had a bht of a mayor of the conference, forgetting | :58:42. | :58:47. | |
the deficit, forgetting to lention immigration, do people really see | :58:48. | :58:52. | |
him as the next Prime Minister? He has apologised for that but at least | :58:53. | :58:58. | |
he hasn't lost two MPs! Style over substance. I think we will rest that | :58:59. | :59:05. | |
one there. What is interestdd me about this session is we have seen | :59:06. | :59:13. | |
Amjad continually playing p`rty politics, attacking the othdr | :59:14. | :59:15. | |
parties and having nothing to say about what UKIP stands for. We know | :59:16. | :59:21. | |
they stand for charging to see a GP, they are supposed to stand `gainst | :59:22. | :59:26. | |
immigration but Amjad himself was fined for employing immigrants. What | :59:27. | :59:32. | |
do they stand for? We just don't know. At least with Labour, you will | :59:33. | :59:37. | |
get Labour values. What we stand for is clear. People can make a choice | :59:38. | :59:45. | |
next year. Don't list your whole manifesto, please. Here we go again, | :59:46. | :59:50. | |
play the man not the ball. They can't attack us on policies. They | :59:51. | :00:00. | |
will attack the man. We the national national health from people like | :00:01. | :00:06. | |
you, did you... John Hayes, Howard does Cameron get your conference | :00:07. | :00:14. | |
back on track? I was inviting the other guest to tell us about the tax | :00:15. | :00:20. | |
on ladies clothes and handb`gs that Nigel Farage seems to believe in, | :00:21. | :00:26. | |
but this is the setting out our vision for the future, securing a | :00:27. | :00:31. | |
better future for our country based on sound government, a strong | :00:32. | :00:35. | |
economy. The long`term economic plan... We will have to leave it | :00:36. | :00:39. | |
there. My thanks to you both. Andrew, back | :00:40. | :00:40. | |
to you. Here we are back in Birmingham with | :00:41. | :01:00. | |
the Conservatives. The Tories thought all they had to do was come | :01:01. | :01:05. | |
here, have a rally, a jamboree, and off they go to the races, or in | :01:06. | :01:12. | |
their case the general election Two races later it hasn't quite worked | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
out like that. Let's look at the state of this conference as it gets | :01:18. | :01:23. | |
under way. On our panel we are joined by David Davis. You wrote an | :01:24. | :01:28. | |
article in the Mail on Sunday this morning which was an Exocet at the | :01:29. | :01:34. | |
heart of David Cameron's modernising strategy. It was designed to act as | :01:35. | :01:41. | |
a lever. It was designed to cause trouble. No, we are in the running | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
for the next general election. One of the characteristics of having a | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
five year fixed term Parliaments is that the last year is about | :01:51. | :01:55. | |
campaigning. It is important we beat Miliband, he would be a disastrous | :01:56. | :02:01. | |
Prime Minister. You think the whole modernising strategy was a wrong | :02:02. | :02:08. | |
turn, that is what the article said. Yes. Has that opened the door to | :02:09. | :02:24. | |
UKIP? It has left a lot of people disillusioned with politics. What do | :02:25. | :02:34. | |
you do to get it right? Who was listening to you? | :02:35. | :02:52. | |
Frankly we need to take a more robust series of policies. How many | :02:53. | :03:11. | |
more UKIP defections will there be? I do not think there will be any | :03:12. | :03:20. | |
more. I would be very surprised I know Nigel Farage has a brilliant | :03:21. | :03:23. | |
sense of timing, but I do not think he has got the resources to do that, | :03:24. | :03:29. | |
namely, another Tory MP. So it could be another Labour one, maybe? I | :03:30. | :03:33. | |
think an awful lot will hinge on what happens in Rochester. Because | :03:34. | :03:41. | |
that is not a slam dunk. Clack and unfortunately looks like it will be | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
a walkover for them. But Rochester is a different scene. And so, there | :03:46. | :03:58. | |
could be a kind of Newark situation. When I campaigned in Newark, two | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
labour families I spoke to said they would vote Tory to keep UKIP out. | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
How bad was the Labour conference last week? One politician said after | :04:09. | :04:15. | |
he had a really bad performance that his television performance was | :04:16. | :04:18. | |
suboptimal. I think that would be a good way of describing Ed | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
Miliband's speech. The problem for Ed Miliband in memorising speeches | :04:24. | :04:27. | |
is that we are not auditioning for a new lines Olivier, we're rehearsing | :04:28. | :04:30. | |
for Prime Minister. He failed the Laurence Olivier test, and therefore | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
failed the Prime Minister test. I think the real problem for him was | :04:36. | :04:38. | |
forgetting to mention the deficit. He spoke from the heart about issues | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
which she really cares about, the NHS, the rupture between wages and | :04:43. | :04:48. | |
inflation, and forgot the deficit. Those issues are important, but if | :04:49. | :04:52. | |
you are not addressing things like the deficit, then people are really | :04:53. | :04:55. | |
not going to be listening to your messages on the areas that matter. | :04:56. | :05:01. | |
Was it bad? Yes, suboptimal, I am afraid. I hope that this ends the | :05:02. | :05:07. | |
nonsense of leaders wasting their time learning speeches off by | :05:08. | :05:10. | |
heart. You could learn a Shakespeare play in the time it takes to learn | :05:11. | :05:16. | |
70 minutes of a leader's speech I think we should just go back to | :05:17. | :05:19. | |
sensible reading what you have written. You can then alter it just | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
beforehand. A lot of things were changing, which is not surprising, | :05:25. | :05:28. | |
but he did not have time to learn it. It is a silly gimmick, it worked | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
once or twice, but that is enough for that. Despite some of the | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
derision of Mr Miliband, the Tories are flat-lining in the sun decks, | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
they have been there almost since the disastrous budget, the | :05:40. | :05:46. | |
omnishambles, of 2012, Labour is still several points ahead, nothing | :05:47. | :05:51. | |
seems to change? And David Cameron is now the leader in trouble. It is | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
almost as if a week is a long time in politics. I thought the Labour | :05:56. | :06:03. | |
and friends was Saab -- sub-suboptimal. It was so parochial. | :06:04. | :06:09. | |
You could've watched the top speeches without knowing that the | :06:10. | :06:12. | |
borders of Ukraine, and Iraq and Syria were in question. I hope, | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
because of Friday's discussion in Parliament, that this conference | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
will raise its sights a bit, and we will have something in Cameron's | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
speech, possibly that of George Osborne as well, which is a bit more | :06:27. | :06:29. | |
global. People hoped UKIP had gone away during the summer, people at | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
this conference, I mean, but it is back with a bang. They are still up | :06:35. | :06:42. | |
at 15% in the polls, the Tories languishing on 32 - what is going to | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
change? UKIP won 3% of the last election, I always thought they | :06:48. | :06:55. | |
would get about 6%. If, by the turn of the year, they are still in | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
double digits, I think at that point you can begin to wake of his | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
party's chances of winning. I have had three people say to me so far, | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
come election day, it will be fine, people will sober up and so on. It | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
will be all right on the night is not a very good strategy, frankly. | :07:13. | :07:18. | |
When they get past 5%, I start to bite into our 3-way marginal seats, | :07:19. | :07:24. | |
with liberals, Labour and Tories, and we have got about 60 of those in | :07:25. | :07:27. | |
the Midlands and the north, so it really is quite serious. And if I | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
may steal one of David's lines, when you were interviewing Mark Reckless | :07:33. | :07:38. | |
this morning, and was not talking about the EU referendum, he was | :07:39. | :07:41. | |
talking about how he felt he had broken his pledges to the electorate | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
because the Conservatives he said had failed on immigration and on the | :07:46. | :07:48. | |
deficit, and those sort of bread-and-butter issues could be | :07:49. | :07:52. | |
really potent on the doorstep, which means the Tories have got to run the | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
kind of campaign they ran in Newark, which is a real centre ground, | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
Reddan but a campaign, in which they would hope to get Liberal Democrat | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
and Labour voters out to vote tactically against UKIP. I think | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
today we have seen Cameron been pushed to the right. He has had to | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
say, yes, I would leave Europe, which he has never said before. It | :08:15. | :08:17. | |
is a huge stepping stone, a big difference. It takes the Tory party | :08:18. | :08:23. | |
somewhere else. May be get them a lot of votes. But it has not so far. | :08:24. | :08:29. | |
But I think it loses a lot of people. The industry organisations, | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
for example. The prospect of going out of Europe, but is quite a fight | :08:35. | :08:40. | |
for them. Is it not the lesson that you can out UKIP UKIP? Well, you do | :08:41. | :08:48. | |
not need to, really. I agree, last week was sub-sub-suboptimal. Hold | :08:49. | :08:59. | |
on, that is enough subs! I would not be crowing too much! But what I was | :09:00. | :09:06. | |
going to say, he left out something incredibly important, the deficit. | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
But how many people outside the M25 are thinking about the deficit? One | :09:11. | :09:16. | |
problem we face with Miliband is, he is good at politics and bad at | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
economics, in a way. He comes up with bonkers policies which people | :09:22. | :09:23. | |
love, price-fixing, things like that. Our problem will be about | :09:24. | :09:29. | |
relevance on the doorstep. I do not think at the end of the day it will | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
be about Europe. But was there not a moment of danger for you at the | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
conference, that one area where Miliband is potentially vulnerable | :09:39. | :09:40. | |
is not having credible team with business. Who turned up at the | :09:41. | :09:45. | |
Labour conference, the head of Airbus, saying, we have got to stay | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
in the European Union? The danger is that Europe allows the Labour Party | :09:51. | :09:55. | |
to gain credibility with business. There is some truth in that. But we | :09:56. | :10:01. | |
are in effectively the home straight, the last six months, and | :10:02. | :10:04. | |
people will be fussing about prices and jobs. Very parochial. They will | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
not be saying, what does the CBI think about this? It is, what is | :10:10. | :10:15. | |
happening to me, in my town, in my factory, in my office. That is where | :10:16. | :10:22. | |
the fight will be. Is it not the truth that if UKIP stays anywhere | :10:23. | :10:28. | |
near around this level of support, it is impossible for the Tories to | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
win an overall majority? I would say, if it is this level of support, | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
it is impossible for the Tories to finish as the biggest party, even in | :10:38. | :10:41. | |
a hung Parliament. The Tories keep trying to win back UKIP voters with | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
cold logic - witches it makes Ed Miliband becoming prime minister | :10:47. | :10:51. | |
more likely. UKIP is basically a vessel phenomenon, coming from the | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
gut, and David Cameron has never found the emotional pitch in his | :10:56. | :10:58. | |
rhetoric to meet that. I wonder whether we will see that moron | :10:59. | :11:02. | |
Wednesday. It is just not him. I hope we do. -- more on Wednesday. I | :11:03. | :11:15. | |
hope you're right that we do actually engage on emotion. So far | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
with UKIP, our policy has been to insult them. It does not work. I | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
know that from my constituency. We have to say to them, there is a | :11:24. | :11:28. | |
wider Tory family, we understand you are patria, we understand you are | :11:29. | :11:31. | |
worried about your family, and we do the same. What does it tell us about | :11:32. | :11:37. | |
the state of the Tories, seven months from the election, the | :11:38. | :11:39. | |
economy is going well, they are not that far behind Labour, and yet | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
there is all sorts of leadership speculation? It is extraordinary. | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
They are doing well, they are in with a shout. It depends. UKIP has | :11:49. | :11:56. | |
to be kept below 9% of. -- below 9%. I think David Cameron is one of | :11:57. | :12:04. | |
the few who speaks human, actually talks quite well to people and does | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
not look like a swivel-eyed loons. Whereas a lot of people behind him | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
do. You look at Duncan Smith and Eric Pickles, they are all kind of | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
driven, ideological men, with very right-wing policies. And nice | :12:18. | :12:26. | |
people! Don't hold back! He is not the Addams family, he is basically | :12:27. | :12:29. | |
quite human. I think a lot of people do not realise how ideological he is | :12:30. | :12:35. | |
himself and how well he has led his party in the direction they all want | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
to go. You go on about him being this metropolitan moderniser, I do | :12:41. | :12:42. | |
not think that is what he is, really. It may not be visible from | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
the guardian offices in the metropolis! Everybody where you are, | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
Polly, is a metropolitan moderniser. And where you are, too. That is the | :12:53. | :12:58. | |
nature of living in London. The trouble is, when these people get | :12:59. | :13:01. | |
into Westminster, they are part of Westminster, too. If you could only | :13:02. | :13:05. | |
win by being an outsider, the moment you get in, you are done for. All | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
teeing up nicely for Boris Johnson to be the next leader? I do not | :13:11. | :13:19. | |
think so! The point of my Exocet, or lever, this morning, is that I think | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
this is winnable. If we are good Tories for the next six months, we | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
can do this. It is by denying ground to UKIP, not giving in to them, not | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
buckling. Denying ground. Thank you to our panel. They did all right | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
today, but the normal. That is your lot for today. I am back tomorrow. | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
We will have live coverage of George Osborne's speech to the conference. | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
I am back next week in Glasgow for The Sunday Politics at the Labour | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
conference. How could you miss that? Remember, if it is Sunday it | :13:53. | :13:55. | |
is The Sunday Politics. Bye-bye of statutory press regulation in | :13:56. | :14:24. | |
sponge cake may be a bridge too far. I think I've overdone it | :14:25. | :14:39. | |
with the pistachios and somehow, the custard's split, | :14:40. | :14:42. | |
but it's too late! of statutory press regulation in | :14:43. | :14:45. | |
sponge cake may be a bridge too far. | :14:46. | :14:57. |