23/04/2017 Sunday Politics Yorkshire and Lincolnshire

It's Sunday afternoon - this is the Sunday Politics.

Jeremy Corbyn wants to give everyone in Britain four

extra bank holidays - but is the Labour leader up

to being Prime Minister if he wins the election in just

Theresa May says she wants a stronger hand to deliver Brexit -

how will the Conservatives go about getting the bigger

I'll be asking Party Chairman, Patrick McLoughlin.

And I've been in Paris where voters are going to the polls in first

round of the French Presidential election - what could be the impact

on the EU and Brexit of this most unpredictable of contests?

On The Sunday Politics in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire,

we are in the heart of Britain's most Eurosceptic county,

and we will be assessing what impact Brexit will have

Or feel they may not like it but the Tories

And with me has always ready for the marathon task of covering a snap

general election, even working on bank holidays, the best and

brightest political panel in the business. David Wooding, Polly

Toynbee and Toby Young. So Labour's big announcement this

morning was a crowd pleaser. Four more rainy bank

holidays to enjoy - one for each of the patron saints

of England, Scotland, But Mr Corbyn probably won't be

getting the time off work if he wins And on The Andrew Marr Show this

morning he was asked what he would do as Prime Minister

if the security services asked him to authorise a drone strike

on the leader of Islamic State. What I'd tell them is,

give me the information you've got, tell me how accurate that is,

tell me what you I'm asking you about decisions you

would take as Prime Minister. Can I take you back

to the whole point? Is the objective

to start more strikes that may kill many innocent

people, as has happened? Do you think killing

the leader of Isis would be I think the leader of Isis not

being around would be helpful, and I'm no supporter or defender

in any way of Isis. But I would also argue that

the bombing campaign has killed a of whom were virtually prisoners of

Isis. So you've got to think

about these things. Mr Corbyn earlier. David, is his

reply refreshing damaging? It is damaging. He has clearly been

freaked to the fire already in the first week, there will be lots of

questions on his suitability as a leader and the damage it could cause

to our national security over the weeks ahead and Andrew Marr has cut

straight to the chase here. The other thing, of course, is the

letters of last resort, one of the first duties of a Prime Minister

when he walks into No 10 is to sign these letters on his own, on or --

or on her own in a room, a very lonely moment, to decide whether he

should press the nuclear button and that goes in the Vanguard submarines

and is opened in the event of a strike and he has dodged a question

so many times. One must wonder what he would do that. He has to make

these decisions as Prime Minister. On the Isis point, refreshing or

damaging? It sure is his base, the people who support him, that's the

sort of thing they support info and maybe his tactic is that's all he's

going to get, that is what the polls seem to suggest, in which case they

will be pleased, and say yes, the man is a man for these who doesn't

press buttons and shoot people down. But if you want to win you have to

deal with your own weaknesses and reach out to other people. I think

most people would say that's not somebody who could defend the

country. I wonder if he was being totally honest in saying he would

consider it he would ask for more information. He has previously been

on the record as being against drone strikes in principle, he's

campaigned against them, he wants to abolish drones. I think Andrew Marr

let him off saying it was a drone strike rather than a Navy SEAL or

SAS operation and he had the fact that they could be collateral

damage. We that's not his position because he condemned the

assassination of Osama Bin Laden even though there was no collateral

damage. David is right on the Trident point, he fetched the

question. We heard Niall Griffiths on this very show saying Trident,

the renewal of Trident, would be in the next Labour Party manifesto. It

turns out now we don't know and when he was asked he said that remains to

be seen, his re-opened a can of worms. What he has said about

Trident which was extraordinary was, we will rebuild the submarines but

not have any nukes on them which is expensive and useless. And of course

the Labour Party were forced soon after that interview to put out a

statement saying it is Labour Party policy to renew Trident. So where

are we? Do we know what the party's policy is? It is to renew Trident

but he has started this review which involves looking at it all again. We

know he is a unilateralist to start with but whether he can force this

through is dubious. Does it matter, though, if the party policy is in

favour of Trident, if the leader is not? The potential Prime Minister is

not? They split three ways when they went to vote on it in the Commons.

The party agreed they were pro-Trident and when it came to the

vote they split three ways. I think it's difficult for them, it's always

been a really difficult issue for Labour. The question is whether you

want to seal off your negatives, whether you really want to try and

reach out to people. There are an awful lot of people who will like

what he said, there are an awful lot of people that think we have been

involved in terrible wars, we have wasted a lot of money and blood and

let's just get back from the whole thing, let's retreat from the world

and not try punching above our weight. There is something to be

said for that and it is a reasonable argument. He's been true to himself

on this. I think he is and Polly is right, lots of people will agree

with him, not enough to win a general election, the latest ComRes

poll shows Tories on 50% and Labour on 25 and as my colleague James

Forsyth in the Spectator said if this was a boxing match it would

have been stopped by now by the revelry. We are not stopping, we are

going on. So the political parties have had

to move into election mode Stand by for battle buses,

mail shots and your social media timeline being bombarded

by political propoganda. But none of this comes cheap -

Adam's been doing his sums. Democracy is priceless but those

planes, trains and automobiles used in the last election cost money

and we know exactly how much, thanks to the Electoral

Commission database. The Conservatives flew David Cameron

to every part of the UK in one day on a private plane costing ?29,000,

in-flight meals extra. They shelled out ?1.2 million

for adverts on Facebook. The most expensive item was their

election guru Lynton Crosby. They bought ?2.4 million worth

of advice and research from his firm Labour's biggest expenditure

was on good old-fashioned leaflets, costing ?7.4 million

to print and deliver. Hope they didn't go straight

into the recycling. Cheap for all the

enjoyment it gave us. To turn a normal minibus

into Harriet Harman's pink bus Nick Clegg toured the country doing

all manner of stunts transported although the party got a grand's

discount when it broke down. Ukip's then leader Nigel Farage

was accompanied by bodyguards Nicola Sturgeon's chopper

cost the SNP ?35,450. Plaid Cymru spent just over

?1,000 on media training And the Greens spent ?6,912

promoting their tweets. It adds up to a grand total

for all the parties of ?37,560,039. Jabbing at my calculator that works

out at less than ?1 per voter. Adam Fleming there -

and joining me now is the man responsible for the Conservative

election campaigns - for the locals next month

and the general election in June - Welcome to the programme. The Crown

Prosecution Service is reviewing evidence from 14 police forces that

your party breached election spending rules on multiple occasions

in the last election. What are you going to do differently this time?

Well, the battle buses are part of the National campaign spend. You saw

them just on the shot that you did, all three parties had those battle

buses so that's why we believe they were part of the national spend and

it was declared that way. At least 30 people in your party, MPs and

agents, being investigated because they may not have been right to

include it in the national spend. Are you saying you are going to do

nothing differently this time? You asked me about last time and the way

the position is... Was. I asked you about this time. We will take a

careful count and make sure that everything that we do is within the

law. But as I say, the last election, all three parties had

battle buses. It is your party that above all has been investigated by

14 police forces. You must surely be taking stock of that and working out

how to do some things differently. You are being investigated because

you put stuff on the National Ledger which should have been on the local

constituency ledger. Are you looking at that again? All of the parties

had battle buses and they all put them on their national spend. I

don't think any of the parties put them on the local spend. The other

battle buses were not full of their party activists. Your party stuffed

these battle buses with activists and took them to constituencies.

That's the difference. And I ask again, what is different this time?

Are you going to run the risk of being investigated yet again? We

believe that we fully compliant with the electoral law as it was. What

will happen if one of these, or two or three or four or five of these 30

people, Tory MPs, or agents running campaigns are charged during the

campaign? As I say I believe we properly declared our election

expenses. What happens if they are charged? You asking me a

hypothetical question, the importance of this election is about

who is in Downing Street in seven weeks' time. Let me clarify this,

you maintain that in 2015 you did nothing wrong with how you allocated

the cost and the activities of the battle buses and you would do

exactly the same this time round? What we did at the last election we

believe fully complied with the law. So the battle buses this time,

stocked full of activists, will still be charged to the national

campaign even when they go to local constituencies? Will they? We will

be looking at the way we do it, there is new guidance from the

Electoral Commission out and we will look at that guidance. It is not the

guidance, it is the lawful stop the Electoral Commission said that, if

you look at the report they did on us, they said there was one area

where we had over claimed, over declared, and another area we had

and declared. We haven't worked out what to do

yet, have you? We will get on with the campaign and

start the campaign and I'm looking forward to the campaign.

I'm trying to work out of the campaign is going to be legal or not

because last time it seems it could have been illegal.

I am sure the campaign will be legal.

You started the campaign warning about the prospect of, the coalition

of chaos. Mr Corbyn has ruled out a post-election coalition with the SNP

and so have the Lib Dems so who is going to be in this coalition?

Vince Cable said he was looking towards a possible coalition trying

to stop a Conservative government. Is not the leader of the Lib Dems.

He's an important voice in the Lib Dems. Who will be in it? Let's see

because of the Conservative Party is not re-elected with a strong

majority, what will happen? There will be a coalition stopping us

doing the things we need to do. Who will be in it? It will be a

coalition of the Labour Party, the SNP and the Liberal party. They have

ruled it out. I think they would not rule it out if that was the

situation. Like Theresa May not ruling out an election and then

changing her mind? The things the Prime Minister said were very clear,

once she had served Article 50 there was an opportunity, as we know

today, there is going to be the start of a new government formed in

France and in September we have the German elections. So it was quite

right that we didn't get ourselves boxed into a timetable. That is why

the Prime Minister took the view that they should be a general

election to give her full strength of an electoral mandate when it

comes to those negotiations. What about Mr Corbyn's plan for four new

bank holidays, good idea? I'm not... If we get Corbyn in No 10 Downing St

we will have a permanent bank holiday of the United Kingdom. We

will have fewer bank holidays of most other major nations, most about

major wealthy nations. What about at least one more? Well, look, he's

talked about four bank holidays. Today would be a bank holiday and

next Monday would be a bank holiday and the other week was a bank

holiday too. I don't think it's very well thought out. It sounded more to

me something like you get in school mock elections rather than proper

elections. Your party is the self-styled party of the workers and

you have no plans to give the workers even one extra bank holiday?

What we want to do is ensure Britain is a strong economy and building on

the jobs that we have created since 2010. We were told that by reducing

public expenditure unemployment in this country would go up,

unemployment has gone down and the number of jobs have gone up

substantially. But no more bank holidays? Well, we will make our

manifesto in due course but I don't think four bank holidays held in

April, March and November are very attractive to people. When Ed

Miliband as leader of the Labour Party suggested the government

should control energy prices by capping them, the Conservatives

described that as almost Communist and central planning. Do still take

that view? You'll see what we have to say on energy prices. I didn't

you about that, I asked you if you take the view... The Prime Minister

made a speech at the Conservative Spring conference in which she

outlined her dissatisfaction about people who are kept locked on a

standard tariff and those are the issues we will address in the next

few weeks when the manifesto was published.

Would that be an act of communism? You will need to see what we say

when we set out the policies. It could be. You could put a Communist

act into your manifesto? I don't think you'll find a Communist

manifesto in a Conservative manifesto which will be launched...

You are planning to control prices? We will address what we think is

unfairness in the energy market. Mr Jeremy Corbyn was reluctant this

morning to sanction a drone strike. You heard us talking about it

earlier against the leader of Islamic State if our intelligence

services identified him. What would it achieve? When the Prime Minister

gets certain advice in the national interests, she has to act been that.

We've seen with Theresa May in her time as Home Secretary and Prime

Minister, she's not afraid to take those very difficult decisions. What

we say this morning from Jeremy Corbyn was a his tans, a reluctance.

I don't think that serves the country well. What would it achieve

if we take out the head of Islamic State he's replaced by somebody

else. It brings their organisation into difficulties. It undermines

their organisation. It shows we'll take every measure to undo an

organisation which has organised terrorism in different parts of

Europe, the UK. I think it is absolutely right the Prime Minister

is prepared to take those kind of measures. Jeremy Corbyn said he

wasn't prepared to take that. Because he wasn't sure what it would

achieve. The Obama administration launched hundreds of drone strikes

in various war zones and we in the west are still under attack on a

regular basis. Mr Corbyn's basis was what would it achieve? It would

achieve a safer position for the UK overall. The war on terrorists. But

the Westminster attack, Paris has just been attacked again? There's

been attacks which have been stopped by the intelligence services. We

must do all we can to support them. The question was about drone

strikes. Whether it is drone strikes or other action, we have to be

prepared to act. Let's move on to Brexit. It is the major reason the

Prime Minister's called the election? Not the only within but

the main reason? It is one of the reasons. Now we start the two-year

negotiations and then a year afterwards. Also the way in which

certain people said they would try to use in the House of Lords or

House of Commons to prevent us making progress. I think you'll put

in your manifesto, it is the Government's policy, the Brexit

negotiating position will be no more freedom of movement. Leave the

single market and no longer under the jurisdiction Europe. You expect

every Tory MP to fight on that manifesto. What will you do with Ken

Clarke and Anna? They will have fought on their manifesto. They will

understand the Prime Minister has the authority of the ballot box

behind them. Will they fight the election on these positions? I'm

sure they'll fight the election supporting the election of a

Conservative Government and it's manifesto will quite clearly set

out... You know they're against these positions. Ken Clarke has a

prod tradition of expressing a certain view. Overall, the party's

manifesto, it is not just individuals like Ken Clarke, it is

what happens as far as the House of Lords are concerned, people said

they'd use the House of Lords to prevent certain measures. You're the

party chairman, will it be possible for people like Ken Clarke to fight

this election under the Conservative ticket without sub describing to all

-- subscribing to all of these Brexit conditions? Ken Clarke will

fight as Conservative candidates. That wasn't my question. I know

that. Will they be allowed to fight it on their own ticket and not

subscribe to what is in your manifesto? The manifesto will be

what the Conservative Party fights the General Election on. There will

always be cases where people have had different views on different

parts of the manifesto. That will be the guiding principles for the

party. Philip Hammond says your election promises in 2015, in your

manifesto not to raise taxes tied his hands when it came to managing

the economy. Do you agree with him? No. The simple fact is we have to do

the best things for the economy. We'll set out in our manifesto in a

few weeks' time, what the policies will be for the next Parliament. Can

I clarify, you don't agree with your Chancellor? What Philip was saying

was some of the areas we wants to address as Chancellor, what the

party will do, it will set out all the issues we're fighting on. It

will set out clearly the choice we have in this country. That's the

important thing. Let me put the question to you again. Philip

Hammond said this week your election promise in 2015 not to raise taxes

had tied his hands when it came to managing the economy. I ask you, do

you agree with him? You said no. Philip expressed his view as to what

he would like. What I'm saying is in a few weeks' time we'll set the

manifesto which will set the policies, agreed with the the

Cabinet. He's Chancellor. Doesn't he determine what the economic part of

the manifesto is? We'll talk about that in due course. Will you have a

lock on the taxes that you locked in 2015 on income tax, VAT, national

insurance? That will be decided. You'll see that when we publish the

manifesto in a few weeks' time. Will you rule out the possibility taxes

may have to rise under a future Conservative Party? Conservative

Government. We've taken four million people out of tax. Now, on average,

people are paying ?1200 less tax than they were on the same salaries

in 2010. I'm very provide of that. I can assure you, the Conservative

Party will want to see taxes reduced. It is the Labour Party

which will put up taxes. We have the evidence where this he did so.

Council tax went up by over 100%. You haven't reduced the tax burden

as a percentage of the GDP is now going to reach its highest level

since the mid-180s which was when Conservatives were in power. The tax

burden in this country under your Government is rising? We've more

people paying taxes which is something, because we've a growing

economy and more people... What about the tax band? You said you

reduced the tax burden on your own Government's figures is rising? We

have reduced the tax burden. The threshold at which people start

paying. These are tax rates not the tax burden. It is rising. The tax

rates have been reduced. You said tax burden. Perhaps I misspoke. Tax

rates have been reduced. We'll leave it there. No doubt we'll speak again

between now and June Is France now about to make it

a hat-trick of shocks The prospect terrifies

the governing elite in Paris. But they're no less scared

in Brussels and Berlin, given what it could mean

for the whole EU project, never mind the huge potential impact

on our own Brexit negotiations. 11 candidates are contesting

the first round of the presidential Only the top two will go forward

to the run-off on May 7th. For the first time since General De

Gaulle created the fifth Republic in 1958, it's perfectly possible that

no candidate from the ruling parties of the centre-left or the

centre-right will even make it The election has been dominated by

the hard right in the shape of the who's never been elected

to anything and only started his own party

a few months ago. And the far left in the form

of Jean-Luc Melenchon, a former Trotskyite who has surged

in the final weeks of the campaign. The only candidate left from the

traditional governing parties is the centre-right's

Francois Fillon and he's been struggling to stay in

the race ever since it was revealed that his Welsh wife was being paid

at generous public expense for a job I've just come across

this magazine cover and it kind of sums up the mood

of the French people. It's got the five main candidates

for President here but it calls them the biggest liar, the biggest cheat,

the biggest traitor, the most paranoid, the biggest demagogue,

and it says they are the winners The four leading candidates,

Le Pen, Melenchon, Macron and Fillon, or in with a chance

of making it to the second round. Only a couple of points separates

them in the polls, Frankly, no one has a clue what's

going to happen. Of the four, there is a feeling that

two of them may be President But the two of them may not find

themselves in the second round. Somebody said to me that the man or

woman on the Paris Metro has as much a chance of knowing

who will win as the greatest experts Because the more expert you are

the more you may be wrong. The country has largely

stagnated for over a decade. One in ten are unemployed,

one in four if you are unlucky Like Britain in the '70s there is

the pervasive stench There are three keywords that come

to mind. Anger, anger at the elite, and in

particular the political elite. And an element of

nostalgia for the past. These three words were decisive

in the Brexit referendum. They are decisive in

the French election. Identity and security has been

as important in this election France is a proud nation, it worries

about its future in Europe It seems bereft of ideas about how

to deal with its largely Muslim migrant population, huge chunks of

which are increasingly divorced It is quite simply exhausted by

the never-ending Islamist terrorist attacks, the latest only days before

voting in the iconic heart of this If Fillon or Macron emerge

victorious then there will be continuity of sorts, though Fillon

will struggle to implement his Thatcherite agenda and Macron will

not be able to count on the support of the French parliament, the

National Assembly, for his reforms. But if it's Le Pen or Jean-Luc

Melenchon then all bets are off. Both are hardline French

nationalists, anti the euro, anti the European Union, anti-fiscal

discipline, anti the market, Either in the Elysee Palace

would represent an existential Brexit would simply become

a sideshow, the negotiations could just peter out as Brussels

and Berlin had bigger fish to fry. We're joined now from

Paris by the journalist 8th Welcome to the programme.

Overshadowing the voting today was yet another appalling terrorist

attack in Paris on Thursday night. Do we have any indications of how

that's playing into the election? That initially people thought this

has been almost foiled in that the police were there as a ramp up. One

policeman was killed. But the terrorist did not spray the crowd

with bullets. It was seen as not having much of an effect on the

election. This has changed. We now know the policeman who was killed, a

young man about to the promoted, he was at the Bataclan the night of the

terror attack. He was a fighter for LGBT rights. The fact he was

promoted, happy within his job, he has this fresh face. Sudden, he's

one of us. It took perhaps 48 hours for the French to process this. But

now they're angry and this may actually change the game, at least

at the margins. To whose advantage? I would say the two who might

benefit from this are Marine Le Pen, she's been absolutely

anti-immigration, anti-anything. And made no bones about it as she

immediately made rather strange announcement in which she'd said if

she'd been president none of the terror attacks which happened in

France would have happened. Francois Fillon has written a book two years

ago called Combating Islamic Terrorism he's has an organised plan

in his manifesto. Unlike Emmanuel Macron who stumbled when he was

asked the evening this happened what he thought, he said, I can't dream

up an anti-terror programme overnight. The question, of course,

that arrows was this is not the sort of thing that's just happened

overnight. It's been unfortunately the fate of France for many years.

Let me ask you this finally, what ever the outcome on May 7th in the

second round, who ever wins, would it be fair to say French politics

will never be the same again? Yes. Absolutely it's a very strange

thing. People have no become really excited about this. You cannot go

anywhere without people discussing heatedly this election. The anger

that was described is very accurate. Very true. There was this feeling as

for the Brexit voters and the Trump voters, vast parts of the people

were being talked down to by people who despised them. This has to

change. If it doesn't change, we cannot predict what the future will

be. We'll know the results or at least the ex-the Poll London time

tonight at 8.00pm. Thank for joining us from the glorious heart of your

city. Now, the Green Party currently has

one MP and they'll be contesting many more seats in June

as well as hoping to increase their presence on councils in

the local elections on 4th May. Launching their campaign

on Thursday, co-leader Caroline Lucas made

a pitch to younger voters. When it comes to young

people they've been But one crucial way they've been

betrayed is by what this generation and this government and the previous

ones have been doing when it comes We know we had the hottest year

on record last year, you know, you almost think what else does

the environment need to be doing All the signs are there

and it is young people who are going to be bearing

the brunt of a wrecked environment and that's why it's so important

that when we come to making that pitch to, yes, the country at large

but to young people in particular, I think climate change,

the environment, looking after our precious resources,

has to be up there. And I'm joined now by the Green

MEP, Molly Scott Cato. Welcome back to the programme.

Promised to scrap university tuition fees, increase NHS funding, rollback

cuts to local councils spending, how much would that cost and how would

you pay for it? Like the other parties we haven't got a costed

manifesto yet, it's only a few days since the election was announced so

I will come back and explain the figures. You don't know? Like every

party we have not produced accosted manifesto yet, we produced one last

time but public spending figures have changed so we're not in a

position to do that but we will be in a week or so. What taxes would

you like to consider raising? We would consider having higher taxes

for the better off in society. I think we need to increase the amount

of tax wealthier people pay. How do you define better off? I'm not

entirely clear what the precise number would be but I think 100,000

people would pay a bit more, 150,000 quite considerably more but the real

focus needs to be on companies avoiding paying taxes. I work on

that a lot in my role in the European Parliament, we see an

enormous amount of tax avoidance by companies moving profits from

country to country and we need European corporation to make that

successful. It has not made much difference yet. We have made lots of

changes. Google turned over $1 billion and only paid 25 million in

taxes last year. There was a significant fine introduced by the

competition commission on Apple and in the case of Google we must change

the laws so that people cannot move profits from country to country.

Everybody wants to do it. But you couldn't face a big spending

programme on the ability to do that. You'd have to increase other taxes.

If you look at the cost of free student tuition, tuition fees and

also maintenance grants to students, that would come in at about 10

billion a year. One way of paying for that would be to remove the

upper threshold on National Insurance, bringing in 20 billion a

year, that's the order of magnitude we are talking about. It is not

vast, and some of the proposals we have... That would be an increase on

the better of tax? National Insurance on people earning...

People earning above 42,000. You would have another 10% tax above

42,000? I can't remember exactly how much the National Insurance rate

changes by. But in government figures it would be 28 billion

raised. I think it is up to 45, a bit more you pay a marginal rate of

40%, you would have them pay a marginal rate of over 50%? We would

put the National Insurance rate on higher incomes the same as it is on

lower incomes. If you are a school head of an English department on 50,

60,000 a year you would face a marginal rate under U of over 50%?

It is not useful to do this as a mental maths exercise but if you

look at other proposals would could have a landlord licensing system,

longer term leases on properties, so young people particularly, but also

older people who rent, could have more security which needn't cost

anything. We could insist on landlords paying for that. The

mental arithmetic seems clear but we will come back to that. How is the

Progressive Alliance coming? It is going well, I have heard of a lot of

interest at local level. Winterset this in contest, context, lots of

progressives are concerned about the crisis in public services, prisons,

social care system, and also about the Tories' hard extreme Brexit they

are threatening. You want the left to come together? Theresa May has

given us opportunity, she has taken a risk because she has problems with

backbenchers, she doesn't think she can get through Brexit with a small

majority so there is an opportunity and we are saying progressives must

come together to corporate, Conservatives are effective at using

the first-past-the-post system and we have to become effective as well.

Do you accept this Progressive Alliance cannot become the

government and Mr Corbyn is the Prime Minister? How could it happen

otherwise? I think that is a secondary question. For me the

primary question is who do people choose to vote for? Aluminium

government afterwards comes after the election. In most countries that

is the case. I understand that but we have the system we have and you

accept this Progressive Alliance cannot be in power and thus mystical

Burmese Prime Minister? Personally I think Mr Corbyn is less of a threat

to the country than Theresa May, she has shown herself to be an

authoritarian leader and she has said she doesn't want to have

dissidents, which I would say is reasonable opposition, and what we

are suggesting at the moment is there is a way of avoiding that very

hard Brexit and damage to public services. You'd be happy to pay the

price of having Mr Corbyn as Prime Minister? I do not see that as a

price. People have the choice of Jeremy Corbyn or Theresa May as

Prime Minister, that's the system that works. You would prefer Mr

Corbyn? I would but votes are translated into seats and the

Progressive Alliance is a step towards that.

It's just gone 3:50pm, you're watching the Sunday Politics.

We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, Wales

and Northern Ireland who leave us now.

Coming up here in 20 minutes, the Week Ahead.

You're watching the Sunday Politics for Yorkshire and Lincolnshire.

Will Brexit trump traditional party loyalties in the general election?

is the issue that continues to divide opinion.

will we have enough labour to harvest crops?

We can't get to the doctors, the hospitals, schools.

Whatever you make of the past five days, history has been made.

The question now is: just how much will Brexit influence voting

in parts of Yorkshire and Lincolnshire, where the leave

vote in last year's referendum was so strong?

Most parts of our region were solidly Brexit.

Boston in Lincolnshire had the UK's highest vote in favour of Brexit

Conservative Matt Warman is the sitting MP there.

In Wakefield, 66% voted for Brexit in the referendum,

something which could present a problem for Labour's Mary Creagh

And could opportunity be knocking on the door

for the Lib Dems in Harrogate, where 51% voted remain?

Just what could that mean for Conservative MP Andrew Jones?

Well, we've been in Lincoln with a panel of politicians to weigh

But first, there has been bumper harvests of winter crops

in Lincolnshire gathered in by an army of East Europeans

But what does the future hold for them?

British labourers and their EU counterparts

This area and this industry lean heavily on migrant labour from

And one local employer is hoping that the tap won't be turned

With a snap election like this, what we need to be doing, and the

government needs to help us on, is making the migrant labour welcome,

to stay that we have here, and encourage labour going forward.

So this company, like others, is already

planting new shoots in the

area of automation, should the supply of labour be weakened.

Machines don't tend to have as many sick days and holidays.

We have invested in automation, with this automatic planter,

because of rising labour costs and long-term concerns

about where our labour force is going to come from.

Lincolnshire produces a quarter of the country's vegetables.

Before the EU enlarged in 2004, EU migrants made up a tiny fraction

Today, they are estimated to number 15,000 -

Now, it could be said that the seeds of Brexit were sown

here in Lincolnshire, and last year Boston recorded

the highest Leave vote in the EU referendum.

Well, by mid-June, we will have a whole new political

landscape in an election which many will see as a verdict on Theresa

That makes Boston a key battleground.

Everyone around here has just had enough.

You can't get to the doctors, the hospitals, schools,

So really something needs to be taken in hand with regard

Here in Boston, town and country have often been

Will a post-election government be able to secure a Brexit that reaps

the rewards of the EU labour supply without sowing more

Well, to answer that question and more besides, no doubt,

I have come to Lincoln where I'm joined by Conservative's

Dr Caroline Johnson, Labour's Melanie Onn

Caroline Johnson, how seriously is Theresa May taking this claim

that there could be a shortage of agricultural

Well, as a farmer's wife, Tim, I understand

The important thing with Brexit is we will have control

of our borders and we will be able to say who comes

And that will be something that is under our control,

Melanie Onn, it sounds like we're hearing the same arguments we did

during the EU referendum campaign last year.

People then said the British economy couldn't survive

The British public rejected that argument then and they will reject

The reality is that, in the agricultural sector,

we're looking at a shortage of around 90,000 horticultural

And that is a really serious issue that has to be addressed.

But of course when people voted in the European referendum,

one of the issues was about labour and it was about freedom

of movement, and so people will be looking to see exactly

what the Prime Minister will do and the commitments she has made

to the agricultural sector frankly don't mean a bean until we have

Victoria, what you think you hear farmers in this part of the world,

in Lincolnshire, saying they cannot cope without migrant labour?

I believe they could, when things get back to normal.

What concerns me is that Theresa May has talked about keeping freedom

of movement even after Brexit and I think this is an excuse

We can go back to the seasonal workers scheme which worked

for generations, where people could come from anywhere

around the Commonwealth, strictly controlled,

they came here and did their job for the season and went back again.

Also, a guest workers scheme, for the NHS, for example -

there is no need to have our uncontrolled borders

And I'm sorry, the Prime Minister is backsliding -

one of the biggest issues in the referendum was immigration.

We're going to have uncontrolled immigration before Brexit and after,

Caroline Johnson, you have to remember, Theresa May

was Home Secretary for most of the last Parliament,

So she hasn't really got a good record on this, has she?

Net migration has gone up to record levels.

Well, actually, net migration is falling, and fell in the year

to September by 49,000, so we are getting

We haven't been able to control immigration from Europe

because of the European Union rules and that will change after Brexit.

We will now be in control of our immigration.

Theresa May has made it very clear she will have control of our borders

Melanie Onn, Theresa May wants this election campaign

Is Brexit going to be the dominant issue?

I think that she would love for this to be entirely

about leaving the European Union, that is the battle ground

But I think the domestic issues really need to be prominent

because that is what is affecting people day in, day out,

in my area, Great Grimsby - we have a hospital trust that twice

under the Tories has gone into special measures.

We have violent crime on the up and we know that people are ?3000

on average a year worse off under the Conservative government

So those are the things I'm going to be talking

about in my constituency of Great Grimsby and urging people

to make sure they do vote Labour again and it is not just

about voting in those seats that already have Labour

candidates and Labour MPs, but those that have the chance

to change the way the country is going at the moment.

Do you accept that, Victoria Ayling, that there are for many people

far bigger issues out there other than Brexit?

No, I believe Brexit is so tied up in everyday life now and immigration

control is one of the biggest issues and the backsliding

by the government has hacked off a lot of people around

Theresa May does barnstorming speeches about controlling

She has not talked about keeping a 200-mile limit.

She has not talked about our fisherman's rights.

She's still talking quotas, even after Brexit.

Of course, we will hear from all the main parties

in the run-up to polling day on the 8th of June, but today

we are going to focus on Ukip because this is an area where Ukip

has targeted in recent years with some success,

although it is worth noting that voters in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire

still have not sent a Ukip MP to Westminster.

And in recent months, the party has often hit

the headlines for all the wrong reasons, as Charlotte Rose reports.

Three years ago, Ukip was riding a wave, winning five MEPs

across Yorkshire and Lincolnshire and a raft of local councillors

MEP Amjad Bashir defected to the Conservatives in January 2015.

Last year, Mike Hookem and North West MEP Steven Woolfe had

The police investigated and Steven Woolfe left the party.

At the same time, James Collins MEP was taken to court over defamatory

comments she made about three Labour MEPs.

She now faces costs and damages of nearly ?300,000.

This year has brought no better luck.

Leader Paul Nuttall failed to get a seat at the Stoke-on-Trent

A month later, their only MP, Douglas Carswell, quit.

To top it off, Theresa May has stolen the party's thunder on Brexit

Leader Paul Nuttal insists there is a good reason to vote

If people elect a Ukip councillor, they are electing someone who really

They will stand up for the wishes of their residents.

Now, of course, there is a general election to think about as well.

Could June's vote finally see the party get an MP in the region?

In Great Grimsby, Ukip came third in 2015, but fewer than 500 votes

behind the second-place Conservatives.

Mike Hookem wants to stand there and says he is in

We are the only party that has said for the last 23 years we want to be

We are fighting for that and we are going to carry

And you need to put somebody into Westminster that will carry

on that fight and make sure that the Brexit that happens,

the negotiations that come to pass, are exactly what the people voted

The question is, will two elections in five weeks help or hinder Ukip?

In terms of whether voter apathy will affect Ukip supporters,

Ukip have lost its two main assets, which is its clear message

of being the only party supporting the leave from Europe,

and its charismatic leader Nigel Farage.

So in terms of how Ukip's share of the vote will change,

perhaps there is less for Ukip voters to go out and vote for now.

The other parties would like to write Ukip off as a spent force,

In last December's by-election in Sleaford and North Hykeham,

Many claim they are now a busted flush, as Theresa May has

But could they be carried back into Parliament on the back

The next seven weeks will show if Ukip have got staying power

or if they have reached the end of the road.

OK, well, let's start with Victoria Ayling.

Do you accept that, if Ukip fails to win an MP in our part

of the world in the forthcoming election, you might as well just

I mean, we've got many local councillors, we've got MEPs

and we've still got massive support and members are rejoining,

especially with the backsliding on immigration by this government.

But you're only MP, Douglas Carswell, has given up

the ghost, you've got senior figures deserting the party.

Surely you accept that perhaps the time for Ukip

I think it's well documented that Douglas Carswell was actually a Tory

plant and the senior people leaving the party were in league with him.

They have now gone, so we can move onwards and upwards

to actually win seats, maybe this time, maybe next time.

We are a new party, we've made great gains despite that

and we have a huge amount of loyal support, especially in this area.

Melanie Onn, how worried are you that Ukip, as has

happened in the past, could take Labour

I think Ukip has served their purpose now, to be honest,

they were here to push forward an anti-European agenda,

they have done that, we are in the process of it,

and I don't really see the point of them any more.

Certainly Douglas Carswell doesn't and the idea

that he is a Tory plant, let's not forget that Victoria was

I left the party before joining a party.

Douglas Carswell never left the Conservatives.

May I point out that the backsliding by the government has made us more

relevant than ever to make sure true Brexit happens?

And some of their biggest backers now are deciding

to stand against formerly Ukip representatives.

They're either going independent or are going back to the Tories

And do you accept, Caroline Johnson, that Ukip still has a big

following in this part of the world, especially from people

who voted for Brexit in record numbers last year?

The Prime Minister has made that clear and we are now

The key thing with this general election is that a vote

for the Conservatives gives Theresa May a stronger hand

with which to negotiate our best deal as we leave the European Union.

And I agree with Melanie that Ukip was there to serve the purpose

of trying to push for leaving the European Union.

We are now leaving the European Union and therefore,

in my view, there is no reason now to vote for them.

I'm afraid the government is not going to be truly leaving

the European Union and it's up to Ukip to make sure this happens.

We've got backsliding on keeping freedom of

We are keeping the European arrest warrant.

There has been no indication that we are going to take our

It is all talk, and talking about quotas post-Brexit.

Theresa May comes up with all the speeches,

but the reality is we will stay in the single market if we're not

careful, and Ukip has never been more relevant.

And when people see what is happening, and some

are already doing so, you will find we will be

Melanie Onn, do you expect to see Jeremy Corbyn on the steps

of Number Ten Downing Street on the morning of 9th of June?

There is absolutely no doubt that this is going to be

However, you don't go into an election admitting any kind

So everybody is going to be out there.

In the last election, people like you would have

In the last election, you were fighting for Ed Miliband

Do you accept Jeremy Corbyn as the next Prime Minister?

I think we stand as good a chance as we have ever stood,

to be perfectly honest, to win this election and make sure

we turn this country around because this is the opportunity

to make sure that some of the most severe cuts that are affecting some

of the most vulnerable people in our communities are changed

And we know Jeremy Corbyn is a man of great principle,

something that cannot be said of Theresa May.

She promised we would not have a general election and just

12 months down the line, here we are facing

Hard-working families have been neglected by the main parties.

They are dominated by trade unions who are funding one, and big

But unions represent working people, Victoria.

These are individuals who join a trade union

Something that Ukip and frankly the Tories really don't

And when it comes to talking about Brexit, it is people like me

who are in parliament who, for the last two years, have been

doing everything that they possibly can to serve their constituents,

and when it comes to the European Union and leaving

the European Union, making sure that things like workers' rights,

which you would scrap in the name of an entirely free market

and flexibility for employers, to make sure those key core

protections for people in those working lives are removed.

Well, let me ask you, Caroline Johnson, because Jeremy

Corbyn may well ending up speaking to a large chunk of the population

People who perhaps have not voted for many years,

who may have voted last year in the EU referendum,

but may not have voted in a general election.

There could just be a surprise in this election, couldn't there?

Well, I mean, I will be out there with my colleagues

fighting for every vote for the Conservatives.

A vote for the Conservatives is to strengthen Theresa May's hand

It is a very important time for our country and what we need

at this time is a strong leader and I don't think Jeremy Corbyn

is a strong leader and I think that's been demonstrated in the way

Which is why Theresa May has called the election.

Some would say it is a cynical attempt to kill

I think she has been very clear she has come to this

decision on reflection and that she

wants to hold this election so she can show that she has a good

mandate for a position of strength as she goes

It has been a week of comings and goings, with a number of MPs

announcing they will be stepping down and others saying

Sean Stowell has our summary in 60 seconds.

He is the former postman who stamped his authority

on some of the biggest jobs in politics.

But Hull West and Hessle MP Alan Johnson was amongst the first

of batch of high profile MPs to announce their departure

It's been an absolute pleasure and a privilege to represent

Also announcing his exit from Westminster, Barnsley MP

and vocal Corbyn critic Michael Dugher.

He says he wants to make a difference in life

But continuing to strive for change are South Yorkshire's former party

One should never be flippant, I think, about putting

The former Shadow Chancellor and Strictly star Ed Balls ruled out

an attempt at returning to being MP for Morley.

Meanwhile, Grantham and Stamford Conservative MP

Nick Bowles has said his cancer is in remission and he will be

The time in politics, isn't it? I am joined by Victoria honeymoon, a

lecturer in politics at the of Leeds -- a week is a long time in

politics. Were you surprised about there being a snap election? Yes,

pundits, academics and even politicians were also surprised.

What impact more our part of the world play in deciding the outcome

of the election? They like to see what is going on in this region.

There are some close marginal seats that often give a taste of what is

going on nationally. This time around, there might be slightly less

consideration of this region because the Conservatives seem so dominant

nationally. A lot of the current Conservative seats will more than

likely stay that way. Places like Halifax might be interesting, or

Lincoln Central. I think it will be some key marginals that will be

particular interest, rather than general scope across the region.

What impact will the Brexit effect have? Will the referendum have

changed traditional party loyalties? It depends how important the

electorate think Brexit is. Does it trumps the economy and the NHS? Is

it more important than who they habitually vote for? For example

tribal voting. If they do, Brexit becomes the main consideration in

the views on Europe of the candidates become important. If they

go back to traditional ideas about voting, it might be that Brexit

becomes a secondary issue. At the moment, the Conservatives and the

Lib Dems are focusing on Brexit as the main issue. Labour are trying to

shift the focus. Are there any crumbs of comfort for Jeremy

Corbyn?? Anything can happen. If you spoke to me this time last week, I

wouldn't have thought we were having a general election. Some of the

opinion polls in recent history have been wrong. Very wrong. But actually

they have been dealing with issues were the difference between one side

and the other have been very narrow. Brexit and Trump against Clinton,

and also the 2015 general election. This time, we are seeing enormous

differences between the Conservatives and Labour. I think we

can see the overall view of these polls is likely to be correct and it

looks like the Conservatives will be dominant. Can things like the policy

for extra bank holidays make any difference? Some people are

impressed by that. Britain has very few bank holidays compared to other

European countries. I think a lot of people will focus on the bigger

issues, Brexit, the NHS and the economy. There is an argument that

these ten of policies are almost a secondary issue. Have we seen the

end of fixed term Possibly. The idea was you would have five years and

that would be the set amount of time you would have a parliament for. But

we are seeing this can be overturned, so it may well be that

we begin to see this more and more and it effectively becomes more and

more. What will the result be on the 8th of June? I expect there to be a

Conservative Government. I think Labour might have a bad night. I am

not sure the Liberal Democrats will do as well as people are expecting.

Thank you. on issues like the NHS. Run out of

time. Andrew, back to you. Now, Ukip have made their first

significant policy announcement of the election campaign today

with a call for a ban on wearing But is it a policy that will meet

with the approval of the man who bankrolled the party's last

general election campaign? Hello, Andrew. Let me see if I can

clarify some things, are you a member of Ukip? I a patron of Ukip

so I don't stop being a member. So you are still a member? I am,

apparently for life. Are you still hoping to bankroll Ukip? Not at the

moment. Why is that? The internal problems we have had in Ukip have

been aired, and a lot needs to happen in the party in terms of

professionalising it and I think it is ill-prepared for this general

election. Are you going to run in Clacton? I will be if selected. For

Ukip? Yes. Have you been to Clacton? I've been with Nigel Mansell on the

campaign. You will run for a constituency you've only been in

once? Yes, why does that surprise you? You know nothing about it. I've

just recently decided to become the candidate there. Did you know where

it is? Of course I do, your piece the other night was completely

wrong. I said I knew where it was but I didn't know much about it.

Maybe the people of Clacton will regard you as a carpetbagger? Why?

Because you have never been there. Most politicians are carpetbaggers

and I will be there for the right reasons. I thought it was because of

your visceral hatred of Douglas Carswell. He only lasted 24 hours

after I announced my candidacy so we will see what happens. The main

thing I am going to Clacton on Monday to meet the Ukip councillors,

see what the issues are and see if they want me as a candidate. They

may not want me. Who do you think you will be up against? The

potential Conservative candidate. Who in Ukip? I don't suppose anyone

in Ukip will stand against me, I wouldn't have thought. Really? I

would have thought. Money talks! Why do you say that? You talked about

having a pirate radio station to blast into Clacton so it is not

covered by the election rules. You've been talking about financing

a sort of right-wing Momentum movement. I just wonder, has

politics now just become a Richmond's hobby? From my

perspective the reason I'm interested in it is if you have

looked at what has happened in the country, it's clear the

Conservatives will have a massive majority. -- has politics become a

rich man's hobby. Only putting up candidates not against Brexit MPs.

Is Ukip over? I don't think so. The electoral maths is interesting

because first-past-the-post effectively could help Ukip in this

example. Ukip got one MP with 4 million votes. What we are seeing is

the total collapse of Labour. In that situation there are certain

seats up north in Hartlepool and other seats like that, the total

collapse of the Labour Party could help Ukip to win a few seats. Is

Ukip over? It looks that way, yes. They haven't made much of a dent in

Labour's vote in the north, they don't really have a defining issue

anymore and all the polls we have seen published since the election

was called show Ukip vote is going to the Conservatives. Is Ukip over?

It always happens when the Conservative Party goes far to the

right, really hard Brexit, there is no space for BMP, Ukip and all of

that. Are you associating the BNP with Ukip? Or that, movements to the

right of the Conservatives get eaten up one the Conservatives move as far

right as Theresa May has done. I think what your enterprise shows is

how it's really time to reform funding of political parties. It is

disgraceful that very rich people can move in and bankroll the Brexit

campaigned to the extent that they did. We need proper state funding of

parties. The union is bankrolling Labour. I assume the reform would

include trade unions? Indeed. Ukip has lost its talisman in Nigel

Farage, it was a one-man party, I have to say, people like Tim. Having

voted for Brexit its reason to be has gone. It will still take votes

from Labour and the Conservatives but probably only from the don't

knows. There are seats in certain places where if enough Tories back

Ukip dated when. Hartlepool is an example. Were the Tories will never

win. The demise of Ukip has been forecasted many times before but I

don't see a Tory candidate winning in a place like Hartlepool. So we

could see, and I think we will see, the total collapse of the Labour

vote. We shall see. The leader of the party of which you say you are

still a patron, Paul Nuttall, said he would ban the Burcea and the

niqab in public, what is your view? -- the niqab and the Burcea? I'm not

in agreement with that. If it is a security issue at airports or public

transport it could be acceptable but I'm not in favour of curtailing

people's writes. You have gone further than him, haven't you? You

tweeted you wanted to ban Muslim immigration. In my view the problem

we have had with the lack of integration in certain communities

has come about through mass open-door immigration. If you are a

must win you wouldn't be allowed in? What I said in the tweet was I think

they should be a ban on immigration... You said Muslim

immigration. That's what I believe. If you are a world famous doctor

coming to help one of our big teaching hospitals in this country

because you are a Muslim you could not get in? We have to start

somewhere, there are huge problems in areas where 20% of the population

don't speak the language, they haven't integrated. You should read

the rest of the tweet, it is control of immigration from a 10-year ban on

unskilled immigration. The first thing you said was to ban Muslim

immigration, it is in black and white. I have said that, I do not

dispute that. I was questioning that. There is my answer, you cannot

tell somebody's will adjust freedoms but what you can do is stop adding

to the problem. Doesn't that sound a bit like the BNP? It's as like BNP

and like Trump. Its, we hate Muslims, fine, if that is what you

are standing for, that is clear. The final word is we have had open-door

mass immigration from the Conservative Party, we've had it

from the Labour Party and its fine if you are in north London to say

these things, if you live in Oldham and your community has been

radically changed and you have a whole population not integrating in,

not speaking the language, something has got to be done. We had better

leave it there. Thank you for coming in. I am en route to Clacton. We

will see how you get on there. Now, Lib Dem leader Tim Farron

was on TV earlier today and he was asked again

about an issue that he's been asked about repeatedly -

his attitude to homosexuality. when they asked you whether gay sex

was a sin. Come on, Robert, I've been

asked this question loads few days and I have been clear,

even in the House of Commons, It's possible I'm not the only

person getting tired Probably, but then why don't

you just close it down? Toby Young, why does he get into

such a mess over this? I mean, he is leader of the Liberal Democrats. Its

2017. I guess the reason he keeps refusing to answer that question is

because what the implication is that he does think that homosexual acts

are sinful, and he cannot bring himself not to say that, or to say

what Robert Peston and others want him to say because he is an

evangelical Christian who converted at the age of 20, 21, and clearly he

really struggles with this issue and I think it will be really difficult

for the Lib Dems to promote, or even Lib Dem candidates like Vince Cable,

to promote the idea of the Progressive Alliance even though Tim

has ruled it out, if he is not prepared to say I don't think

homosexual acts are sinful. What is your view? It is disastrous if that

is what he really thinks but Preston did not push the hard. I'm not sure

he understood the difference about the question between gay sex and

being gay. I think he just thought he was going on saying I'm not

anti-gay. He needs to command immediately and clarify it. If you

are right and he does actually think it is a sin he is in real trouble.

There is a slight parallel with what police said before about Jeremy

Corbyn, how his unilateral nuclear policy would appeal to the hard core

of the left. The problem for Tim Farron with what he is saying here,

while he is an evangelical Christian, this will not appeal to

traditional Liberal Democrats. An LGBT community member cannot

possibly vote for an MP who believes that a sexual act between

homosexuals is sinful. He has not made that clear. Of course, he wants

to stop Brexit as well so he is neither liberal nor democratic. He

will have seven weeks to make it clear because I am sure he will be

asked again. We have the chairman of the Conservative Party on earlier,

Polly. An important figure for the Tory campaign. What did you make of

what he said? I don't think he will have him on very often, he didn't do

brilliantly. I think they will bring back chemical Ali, Michael Fallon,

he can say anything with a straight face, he can say black is white.

Michael Fallon, chemical Ali? Why do you say that? He can absolutely say

black is white. For instance if you look back at what he said, you

challenged him about the energy policy, when Ed Miliband came out

with it, he said any kind of freeze would stop investment, the lights

will go out. You have him on, he will say the exact opposite. He is

magic at that. But I don't think your guy today was up to the job. If

Michael Fallon was chemical Ali, or we should say chemical Fally,

Patrick was more like comical Ali. The whole Iraq war is rushing back

at me. He is the warm up comedian, there is another six weeks to go,

just getting things started. What did you think? I don't think he was

too bad, it was difficult for him to say exactly what was in the 2050

manifesto is going to be replicated in the Conservatives' manifesto

during this general election, he doesn't want to be seen rowing back

on stuff but on the other hand I don't think he can conceal the fact

they will be far fewer commitments in this Conservative manifesto than

in the last one, as you and I know, it was full of rash promises last

time because they thought they would have to trade a lot of them away in

the negotiations with the Liberal Democrats to form a second coalition

so they are saddled with policies they don't particularly want to be

hemmed in by. The forthcoming Conservative manifesto will be much

lighter and shorter with fewer commitments. Different? Some stuff

jumped from the 2050 manifesto? I think so but we will see a

commitment to run schools to overcome that hurdle in the next

parliament and I don't think, in spite of what you think, Polly, that

it will be a hard tack to the right. I think if anything the mood music

of the Conservative manifesto will be a centrist inclusive one. The

mood music will be because the specifics would be there. She is

good at saying governing for everybody and the many and not the

few but when you look at the hard facts of what her and Hammond's

budget looks like, you look at her hard Brexit, it's a very different

story. Or that, the music has stopped for this week! Thank you. I

will be back next week at the normal time of 11am on Sunday morning. On

BBC One The Daily Politics is back at midday tomorrow and we will be on

every day next week on BBC Two. Remember, if it's Sunday, it is The

Sunday Politics. There'll be a couple of hours of

just fantastic music, really, all the Ella classics, as well as

some very special guests, we have Mica Paris, Imelda May,

Dame Cleo Laine 'There's a side to Rory that the

public doesn't see. 'Rory has suspected for some time

that he may have ADHD. Here we have the first hydrogen bomb

that went into service with