08/02/2014 Talking Business with Linda Yueh


08/02/2014

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That's the latest from BBC News for now.

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Companies with women on their boards outperform. Yet gender gaps persist

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in paid work and opportunity. We explore why and what can be done

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about it. Here in Davos at the World Economic Forum, we're talking

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business. A warm welcome to this debate. With

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slow growth plaguing much of the global economy, can women be the

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answer to boost its? By adding women to the workforce, the US economy is

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40% larger, companies with women on the ward outperform those who don't.

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But is the evidence incontrovertible? Women are

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underrepresented in top jobs and are paid less. So we are asking today,

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should women be running the world economy? I can't Inc of a better

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panel to dissect the issue and propose solutions. -- can't think.

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My guests include the executive director of the UN are women,

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Christine Lagarde, the first woman to be managing director of the IMF.

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And ourselves instead of the opposite sex, the Chief Executive

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officer of Renault Nissan Alliance -- our sole representative. I will

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go rapidly down the panel and ask you to question. Should women be

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running the world economy? Yes! I knew she would agree. Christine

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was going to clap our hands to. We don't know what it would be like if

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women were in more leadership has issues, we don't know if the world

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would be more peaceful if women run more than 19 countries. We don't

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know... I think we do know that companies would be more productive.

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But I think we should try this and I think there is a lot of data to

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suggest that the performance would increase traumatically. If we had to

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address generation upon generation of poverty stricken societies, we

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have to empower women because women are the only force that can ensure

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that we reduce poverty sustainably. Because when women's quality-of-life

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improves, the quality-of-life of their children improves and the

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poverty in that particular family, from generation to generation, is

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cut off. I think you already run the global economy, what would you say?

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I completely disagree with the way you have characterised Carlos, I

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don't think we should say the opposite sex. Samantha Bothroyd used

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to write the second sex, talking about us, the women. I think we

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should be more clever than people were in those days. It is the other

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sex but not the opposite sex because it's a battle we have to win

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together because it's going to be in the global interest. With only about

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20% of women at best in charge, having broken the glass ceiling and

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so on, and obvious evidence that they are good managers and maybe

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better, that they are good in investors and maybe better, they are

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good board members, and so on, there is no doubt we have got to do it. In

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places where it has been tried, we are seeing results. Carlos, I had

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better reintroduce you. Our sole member of the other sex! Should

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women be running the global economy? We have three examples here that we

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are getting there. We are closing this gap, as you know I have been

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fighting and promoting diversity in general and gender parity is an

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important element, particularly for women in leadership. We have plenty

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of examples showing it is a good thing. I am very happy. In terms of

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companies, what is the most compelling argument that you would

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say, we should be solving this? It's the same facts we are all repeated,

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companies outperform when you have women in leadership positions. And

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importantly, when you have women in leadership positions, those

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companies have better worklife policies for men and women. So there

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is a chicken and egg going on. We need better public policy for us to

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get more women in leadership going on, we need more women in leadership

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roles because they support better public and corporate policies. And

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of course, peace and security. They would be better security if women

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had more to do with deciding when to shoot, and I'm sure they will decide

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not to shoot. Can I come to you on this in terms of countries, what is

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the most compelling evidence you have seen that countries are better

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off in terms of growth if the gender gap were closed? I would go back to

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the point you made earlier about companies, because that's also where

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it has to happen, that's where the gender gap is not really closing. It

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has improved, it is able at the moment, but not improving

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significantly. Half the computers, half the cars and about 70% of

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household products in the US, which is the only example we have, are

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bought by women. When your customers are women, you'd better make sure

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that your workforce your management and your board includes as many

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women as the percentage of those that actually buy your products.

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Because then you understand what it is. I believe that an organisation

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has to be the mirror of the people it targets. So that's a compelling

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argument. Then just look at the Nordic countries. They are at the

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top of the list in terms of growth, governance, going through the crisis

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with flying colours, and guess what? They are the ones performing best in

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terms of gender access, in terms of dealing with diversity in a

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successful way. I hope you are going to talk about Japan, I think that's

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going to be a very interesting case to follow in the next couple of

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years, to see if money is put where the mouth has been which is in and

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of itself a great achievement. Making sure that the Japanese woman

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can access jobs, that there is enough budgeted money to provide for

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daycare centres, and the list goes on, not just there but in many other

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countries. This is a great time to bring in Carlos. The Japanese prime

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ministers said the economy would be 60% larger if women participated as

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much as men. For you, if you think about the most compelling evidence

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you have mastered to increase women in your board, what would you share?

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I do agree with what he is saying, and that is a conservative estimate.

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As you know, Japan is on a demographic decline and it needs

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much more people in the workforce, able in management, much more

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talent. There is a huge reservoir which can play a bigger role. The

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Japan is a clear case in which a woman jumping in and taking more

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leadership can have a larger economy, and the estimate is very

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conservative. I am going to bring in the audience and ask you a question

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and ask for a show of hands. We have been talking about the evidence and

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a gender gap that persists. It's a big part of the problem that there

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is a lot of gender discrimination? Raise your hand. A lot of the

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audience seems to think so. It's a big part of the problem. Cultures

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are so different. Cultures within different parts of the United States

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to Japan, to France, to Africa, it's all different. Except stereotypes of

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men and women are actually pretty much the same everywhere in the

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world. We believe mention the assertive, aggressive leaders. We

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believe women should be nurturing, giving to others. Leadership is

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associated with the masculine expectations. We call little girls

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bossy. We don't really call little boys bossy because a little boy

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leads but when a little girl leads, we call her C. There is a negative

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phrase for that in every language. When women do the things that make

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them leaders, who don't like them, and therefore we don't promote

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them, we don't vote for them in the same numbers. That gender bias isn't

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all of what is holding women ack, there are a lot of things, but the

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gender bias against women in leadership is a crucial part of the

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problem. Christine, how much of a problem is discriminatory attitudes?

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I think there is a lot of it and we should not only focus on the

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advanced economies, we should drink into the show the low-income

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countries, the emerging market economies and particularly those

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societies where the female gender is repressed. The girls don't have

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access to education, where being a woman is translated as, you are

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going to slave for me. I think it's important that women have got

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rights, in addition to the fact that it makes economic sense. It is right

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and ethical. The gender gap is not a new issue, it has been around a long

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time. Which policies in the past just haven't works? I think would

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doesn't work, particularly with societies which are extremely

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receptive towards women, is to establish some principle and

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goodwill and leave it in the open, ask people to do their best, it just

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doesn't work. I can tell you that in our case, Nissan in Japan, we had to

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go to quotas. When you start and you have 2% of your management pool made

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by women, there is no way, with a good attitude, you are going to

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change this radically. We had to put some quotas and objectives by

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saying, from the next few years, we are going to double these numbers

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and in seven years, triple it, etc. We are still at the ridiculously low

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number of 8%, but this is practically three times the average

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of corporate Japan. So the quota is important because it leads to

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action, action means hiring, training, coaching, putting in the

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process of the company a systematic decision, forcing the selection of

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female potential at all levels. If you don't do that, you're just going

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to lose a lot of time or have a lot of goodwill which is dispersed by

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saying, we told you it doesn't work. I just want to add one thing on top

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of discrimination. Yes, there is discrimination, it's obvious, but

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what is most important is training and coaching. Because you may end up

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in a lot of situations where you have talented women, who are not

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having enough soft confidence to go for the job or for the challenge. --

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self-confidence. So if they are not coached, they are not prepared, and

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starts with education. When women are girls, to tell them, you are

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expecting the same thing from them, they have to go for the same thing.

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If this doesn't exist you will lose a lot of potential. Does anybody

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have a view on the quota issue? It has been some controversy for women.

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Christine. I was strongly against it because I thought women should be

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recognised on their own merits, and there was no reason there should be

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any particular threshold, requirements, sanctions or penalties

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associated with it, until I grew up in a big, international law firm

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that I love. But where the number of female partners were so low and had

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been so low for such a long time that I soon realised that unless we

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had at least targets, if not quotas, there was no way we were going to

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jump the right step in order to have a significant number of females in

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the partnerships. I completely changed my approach. I am

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pro-quotas, pro-targets and I think we should be made accountable in all

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the organisations we are in, in order to reach those numbers. With

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the gender prejudice we know exist in our society, not unless we do

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something to make the playing field for equal, women will just not be

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identified as leaders. Quotas, unfortunately, some people do not

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like them but for now, they are necessary. When we reach a time when

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you don't expect women to perform double compared to a man in order

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for them to be given the same recognition, we probably will not

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need quotas. But for now we need quotas because they are giving women

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a head start. In most of the countries, in politics, in the

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boardroom, this is just the world we're living in right now. That's

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where the Nordic countries have gone. The European Union is now

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setting, under directive, a quota for board members. It is a required

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step. Not for the long term, but it's a required step. As a CEO of a

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major company, what kind of policies do you think should be implemented

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to level the playing field? We have particularly two things. The first

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is a quota on hiring. Engineers, you need ten engineers? We are obviously

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now object to 50-50. We are not at 50-50 today, so every year we

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increase the quota of women when we go higher. If the quota is 40% you

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can hire 60 male and 40 female. If you hire 60 males, you cannot

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complete 100 without respecting this. So the hiring is quota. The

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second one is the succession planning. Succession planning is an

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important process in each large company, where all the jobs in the

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company once every year, you say if something happens to this person

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holding this job, who are the candidates who can take this job at

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all the levels of the company, including the executive committee?

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Here, we have forced ranking. It means we say you cannot complete

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your succession planning unless you have, depending on the position, 20%

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of female candidates. You can imagine that people said, we have

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nobody, they are not prepared. Fine, succession planning is not ready.

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You can't close your succession planning as long as... You don't

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have a candidate this year, fine, it is open. But next year we will have

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to find a candidate. I think managing through the hiring from one

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side, the succession planning from the other side, which means

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training, promoting, extremely important process, if you do these

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two well you would hit all your targets. I completely agree, and I

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would add one measure. Measure very carefully and segment the workforce,

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the people you are talking about. It's quite easy to reach 40%

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threshold in any organisation, as long as you include everybody. Fine.

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But the higher you go in a hierarchy, the less women are. You

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have two measure by cohort or segment of your population. Because

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once you measure it then you can hold people accountable. But broad

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measurements of those corporate leaders who say 45% women in my

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company. How about looking at the Pyramid? Then it doesn't look as

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good. Collect the level data and disaggregated. Whenever we are

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providing data that is just rounded, and we don't see X amount of women

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have achieved it, you actually hide a lot. When you are a policymaker

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and are responsible for public resources, women are 51% of the

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population. You should be able to know that in the manner you which

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though spent those public resources, the other half, the 51%

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actually benefits adequately. All of you on the panel are extremely

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accomplished, you've achieved a lot and risen to a level that many women

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would say, this is the kind of role model we are looking at. I will post

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this Christine -- to Christine first. What's the worst case of

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dissemination that you've come across? I suppose you are asking me

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first because I'm the oldest! I prevent my response to you by one

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thing. I think I'm succeeded and I'm here where I am because I was not

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aggressive, because I relied on teams and because I acknowledged the

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team and the support that they have been giving me, and because we

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worked together. And I am not ashamed of saying that. I think that

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other types of management and leadership are fine, but if women

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can exercise leadership by being inclusive, by being team minded, by

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paying back to the team... And, you know what, if we can contaminate a

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few male leaders on that page, contaminate a few of those males who

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don't succeed in reaching peace settlements, that's fine. I'm

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prepared to fight for that. OK, the worst discrimination I faced. My

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first interview with a big law firm in Paris. I had qualified on all

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fronts. The managing partner said to me, we are giving you a job. But

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don't expect to make partnership. I said, why is that? He looked at me

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with contempt. He said, because you're a woman. That was about 35

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years ago. Things have not changed enormously in many areas. The law

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firm I lived my life with was not that law firm. Mine is a bit

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dramatic because I grew up under apartheid, where there was both race

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and gender. In South Africa there were laws under apartheid that

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decided, for instance, that women could not contract on their own

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without the help of a male adult or, for that matter, son. How worse can

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it get? I didn't have a son at that point, and I can just imagine if

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that had to happen, but that was the way the law was. Cheryl? Growing up

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in apartheid in South Africa is an experience I haven't faced. I think

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I've been pretty lucky. I faced a lot of the smaller stuff. I've been

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at dinners recently where men speak and it's fine, then they literally

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put their hands here, stop speaking now, to me. There was a dinner,

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there were two women. Everyone was talking, except when I spoke or the

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other one spoke we were told not to, hands to our faces. Shopping in

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today's day and age. I've had friends who been fired when they got

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pregnant in the last three years in big cities in the United States.

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I've had friends unfairly and ridiculously sexually propositioned

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in offices. I think Christine's point that, yes, things have

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changed, but they have not changed enough. A lot of the things that we

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would think don't happen any more, particularly in the developed world,

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are still happening. Carlos. You're going to ask me the same question? I

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am! No, let me answer this. This is about diversity. We are talking

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about women here, but there is a lot of segregation when a person is

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different. It can be a foreigner. It can be a young person in a society

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which is most valuing seniority. It can be a senior person in a society

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which is much more... What we're talking about is dissemination for

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reasons which are nothing to do with talent or contribution. I'm sure

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that here in the room, many people can relate to what you are saying.

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We focussing on gender discrimination, but there are so

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many other discriminations we ought to fight against. It is a huge

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potential, particularly for companies or even four countries,

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that we need to unlock. That is all we have time for. It's been a huge

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topic, as to why the gender gap persists. We've discussed the

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evidence. That it's harmful to businesses and economies who locked

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up wholesale alternatives. Perhaps gender equality is just what a

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sluggish global economy needs. Please thank my stellar panel.

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And thanks to all of you, the audience, for your participation.

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And a huge thanks to the World Economic Forum for partnering with

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the BBC on this panel of special broadcasts of Talking Business with

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me, Linda Yueh. Afraid no good news to come in this

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forecast for those that need it, unfortunately. And no sign of a

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letup in the foreseeable future either. We still have three severe

:24:27.:24:27.

flood

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