19/04/2014 Talking Business with Linda Yueh

Now on the BBC News Channel, time for Talking Business with Linda

Yeuh. What is the future for the media

industry as consumers become more discerning and social? We hear from

insiders and some of the biggest players at the cutting edge of

internet innovation. Here in Singapore, I'm Linda Yeuh and we're

talking business. Welcome to the programme. The media

landscape is changing at a breakneck pace. The advent of new media is

changing the structure of how products are marketed and advertised

to you and me. So, how do companies create a brand for themselves in

this fragmented New World? I sat down with Scott Donaldson, global

chief content officer of media communications agency Universal

McCann, based in New York, and Vishnu Mohan, chief executive of

Asia`Pacific for Havas Media Group, based in Singapore. Lovely to speak

to the two of you. Scott, let me start with you. What makes a

successful brand? Well, I think my definition of brand has always been

what I thought was one of the most simple definitions, which is that a

brand is a promise. It's a promise to the consumer of a certain level

of consistency and a certain level of quality. But I think in today's

world, it's much more complex than that. Because it used to be that

whoever was making the brand defined what that promise was and then had

to deliver on it. In fact, today, a brand is really a sum of a lot of

different things. It's shaped as much by its audience and by its

detractors and by its fans as it is by the brand marketers themselves.

So it really is a much better thing, in a way, because the relationship

with the consumer is so much deeper, but it's a much more complicated

landscape than it used to be, as well. So we're past the Mad Men era,

in terms of the agencies telling you, "that's the brand and that's

what defines the brand". What do you think? I think to add to what Scott

has just said, I think one of the most important things that brands

need to be today is meaningful. We did a little study globally and it

proved continuously, year after year for four years, that consumers are

basically saying that70% of the brands have no life. They don't

trust brands. And in the era of trust, which is extremely important,

brands go beyond what Scott was just mentioning about a promise, a

product or benefits or irrational benefits. Consumers are seeking much

more, much more out of the brands. And if the brands do not deliver

that, it's going to be a dead one. And that's a very, very... You know,

a very interesting finding that appeared in that survey. I am taking

it to all our advertisers and they're really... If you look at the

speeches that are being made today by the CMOs, whether it be Unilever

or P or anybody else, they aren't talking about business with purpose

today. This wasn't one of the languages that was being used in the

past. And that's because they realise that the power has shifted

from them into the hands of the consumer. So they have to do

something. So what are the kinds of changes in having to relate directly

to the consumers to persuade them that this is a trustworthy,

meaningful brand? I think we're moving and Vishnu makes a great

point. It's not about product claims any more. People are very suspicious

of those. They don't want to be told what brand it is. But if you think

about advertising and marketing, for 100 years, you and I would be having

a conversation and somebody would come in... A brand would walk in,

wait their arms around, interrupt the conversation we're having and

talk about themselves. And that world is just over. That

interruptive, intrusive form of marketing is just dead. And what has

to replace it is storytelling. The most basic way we human beings make

sense of the world is through stories. And brands have to do the

same thing. They have to understand what the conversation is that we're

having, where they might add value to it, what their story is. Not what

are their product claims but what is their role and their purpose in our

lives? It's bigger than that. And then come in and be a part of that

conversation with us. That's the only way the brand is going to

succeed. I think, to add to that, when brands start to give consumers,

like, a forum, whereby consumers can actually share their experiences...

And that sharing experiences much more happening today in the world of

social media. Then the brands really get the opportunity to become

engaging. If you look at a lot of the stuff that's going around in

today's world in terms of brands trying to make the most out of it,

it's really been brands trying to give the power in the hands of the

consumer by allowing them to express their views of the brand or share

the experience. And then from there, the story has emerged. What if I'm a

viewer, watching this and thinking, "Oh, they're trying to sell me

brands. I just want a good product that is cheap. Why should I buy into

this experience and storytelling? Isn't it just going to mark up the

price of what I buy"? I don't think it's a matter of whether or not

people buy into it. I think it's a matter of... Look, out there every

day, people are making decisions on what to spend time with and what not

to, what to pay attention to and what to block out of their lives. I

think it's just a very simple reality that brands either are going

to make stuff that is worthy of people's time or they're not an

they're going to be blocked out. Because people have the power to do

that now. You can't just intrude on their lives and give them the

messaging you want. So it's not a matter of selling because if you

don't want to be sold to, you're not going to be sold to because these

messages aren't going to reach you and resonate with you. So really,

the only answer is that brands have to try to make stuff that is as

worthy of people's time as anything else they would spend time with.

That's a very high bar. It really is the future. But Scott, if you think

about the value question, consumers seeking value, that's never going to

go away, OK? We always seek value from brands at all points of time.

But the reality is, every brand is going to do that, right? So when

every brand is still trying to get to the same value equation, who do I

choose? Will I choose just the brand which is the brand which is 19? Or

the brand which is 20, which is doing a little extra, which is more

meaningful for me? I would pay the 20. And that's the difference. They

will pay a premium and a brand that breaks through and engages

audiences, they will pay, sometimes an irrational premium, because of

the connection and relationship. You both mentioned social media changing

tastes. How do you keep ahead of it? Because now it seems as if tastes do

change very fast. Something can happen on the internet and it just

changes the way people view a product. How do you stay abreast of

that? I think it's about listening. I think it's about... Do you trawl

Twitter a lot or anything? I think brands have to be constantly

listening to the conversations that their audiences are having and and

using... We used to think of data and creativity as almost enemies of

each. `` of each other. Creative people in our industry just want to

go off in a room by themselves and have a fantastic idea hit them. And

when people talked about big data, that seems to be the antithesis of

creativity. But in fact, data will spark the ideas if you pay attention

to it. There's a lot in there that you can see coming, through social

listening, and you can get insight into what's important to your

audience. And then it's a matter of being able to respond quickly, which

is something that brands haven't been able to do in the past. But

really, we are marketing in real`time speed at this point. And

that's a huge adjustment for brands. It's also why you see some brands

making mistakes and stumbling really badly on social media. It's a tricky

world but it's one that you have to play in to stay relevant. I think

listening is one part of it and you brought up this thing about Mad Men.

There's another theory going about "math men" today. In today's world,

do you need more madmen or do you need more math men? To listen,

actually, you need to make out of this voluminous data that you are

getting some sense that you can give back to the brand to really make an

actionable impact. And I think that's very, very key and that's one

of the challenges that most people are struggling with. How do you take

this massive amount of data that you have collected into an actionable

intelligence? Social media is widely seen as a

game changer in the future of the media industry. It's having the

biggest impact on publishing of online content. Companies now needs

to be increasingly agile and adaptable to the way information,

ideas and news are shared. Joining me today to discuss these trends are

Adam Anger, general manager for greater China at Microsoft

Advertising. Scott Lamb, vice president of international at online

publisher Buzzfeed. And Rose Tsou, senior vice president in charge of

the Asia`Pacific region for web portal and search engine company

Yahoo. Welcome to all of you. I'm going to start with you, Adam. Right

now, when you look at the way that social media is changing the way

that online content gets consumed, what are the biggest trends that you

are seeing among consumers? Well, some of the things that we are

seeing is a big way that consumers are changing the way they consume

media. We see that a lot of the consumers across Asia`Pacific, and

even across the world... Much more of their time is spent consuming

online, digitally and through the internet, than it is through TV. We

also know that today's generation is becoming an always`on generation.

You see that people carry their mobile with them almost all the time

and so this concept of always having information readily available is

important for media owners to understand. Also for media

distributors to understand, as well as for advertisers to understand how

the reach those audiences. Jump in here, Scott. In terms of Buzzfeed,

how do you actually create content, knowing that trends are changing so

quickly? One of the things we think about a lot at Buzzfeed is that not

only people consuming a lot more digital media but they are using

that media to connect with people in their lives. Their social feed is

basically... It reflects their actual social network. And they want

to consume content but even more than that, they want something where

they are almost publishers themselves. And they want to be able

to share that with people as a way of communicating with them and

bonding with them. So it's very important for both publishers and

brands to think about that exchange when they create content. Rose, is

there a difference between how people consume media on mobile

devices or internet or... What kind of differentiation are you beginning

to see? Definitely. I think because on mobile devices, people are

consuming content... In the past, people were looking at a computer

most of the time but now when they are on the road, in the morning, we

see traffic spikes. Mobile devices in the morning, then they go back to

the office and it's PC again, till lunchtime when the mobile comes out

and in the evening, it's tablet. You see different devices shifting the

user consumption of media. So that becomes very important for the

publishers and for the content providers alike, to think of how you

configure your content into different scenarios, different sizes

of screen. And therefore to be able to capture the right moment of the

consumer as they're consuming the content. This is really a big

question for you, isn't it, Scott? How do you tailor the content keep

the viewers coming back? Yeah, and this notion of figuring out what the

main platform is at any moment is so key. And the web, if anything, is in

a constant state of change. Right now, for a lot of publishers,

Facebook is a very powerful platform. It might be the case that

that's true in five years or it might be that a service like

WhatsApp comes along and supplants the way that people are sharing

things. Those are services that align as well are growing

massively, especially in Asia. So as a publisher, we need to really pay a

lot of attention to what people are using and learn to adapt to new

platforms. How do you make money off of social media? How do you think

money off of what you do? `` make money. That's an excellent

question. For Buzzfeed, our primary advertising, and our only

advertising product, is social advertising. So the ad is actually a

unit of content. We charge advertisers to display it on

Buzzfeed but then we give them a social list, which is people sharing

it. So it actually works very well because it's the atomised unit of

content that can go on Twitter, go on Facebook. It shares really easily

across a wide range of platforms. How do you make money off social

media? So our advertising is where we work with the clients. And one of

the important trends that we have seen is the need of advertising,

similar to Scott, is the social ad for Buzzfeed, for Yahoo where

developing Mac of his instrument advertising as the user is looking

at the streaming content and you have native advertising which is

personalised. Once again personalisation comes in. If the ad

is personal it is talking to you. A user is more likely to share it. We

can utilise the social media to amplify the advertiser's impact.

When the advertisers are programmed in a way that is actually personal.

So going native advertising is a big trend for the industry and certainly

for Yahoo as well. Local `based advertising. And also when you think

about advertising, really putting the consumer first. Because I think

a lot of criticism of some of the online advertising in the past has

been this super obtrusive advertising that flies into action

across your website. All I want to do is check my e`mail, why am by

watching this ad? And really consumers are super open and

receptive to brands reaching them online, if it is reached to them in

an additive way to their experience. So a lot of what we are focused on,

with a lot of partners in the industry, is how you make

advertising online immersive, beautiful, engaging, which is going

to benefit the consumer but also in the end the advertiser. Is it

lucrative? It's very much can be. It is actually getting more lucrative

because advertisers are getting better lift for their advertising

message. Advertisers would argue that lucrative is one thing but

being more effective... The nice thing about digital advertising is

it is very measurable. This is what advertisers really enjoy about

advertising online, the ability to measure. They start to be able to

calculate ROI in a very meaningful way. Return on their investment.

Often times when people talk about personalised advertising, I can

already hear people I know saying that sounds like they are taking my

personal data. I don't know if I want them to take my personal data,

I am surfing the web. I don't necessarily want my data to be

collected and then, you know, sent back at me in terms of advertising.

What do you say to that? Well, you know, on the one hand obviously

privacy is something that is terribly important. It has recently

become a large part of the conversation about people living

their lives online. At the same time, it is certainly in the

interest of any advertiser that uses personalisation to make sure that

data is kept very, very safe. And as long as it is providing a clearly

useful service for them, I think that they will be OK with that

trade`off. As long as they feel safe and protected and are getting

something out of sharing their data, as they often do. And people love

Facebook, which has a lot of their data, because it provides them a

valuable service... I think as long as there is a good balance there, it

is going to be something people feel OK with. It is absolutely critical.

I think any reputable company We'll take privacy of users in the highest

regard. It is very critical. We keep it as the first priority. At the

same time, we absolutely see the user wanting to see content as

relative to them as possible. They do not want to be thrown a massive

bit of information without any concern for what interests them.

Personalisation is adding value to the users but of course the privacy

is, I think, absolutely, for any other companies, absolutely treated

with the very highest regard. It is number one priority. I think both of

it is also make sure that you can put the consumer of the media in

control of their privacy. And that is a very big part of where we are

focused, through all of the software that we deliver on devices and

online, on making sure that we help consumers understand how they can be

in control of the privacy settings and Italy education to empower them.

That was rose from Yahoo, Adam from Microsoft advertising and a

representative from Busby. Utterances are moving minors. You

have probably heard of Bitcoin, especially in the past two months.

`` currencies are moving online. It is not without controversy and I

spoke to a representative from the Bitcoin Foundation and started by

asking him whether it can be considered a real currency. I would

consider Bitcoin to be a new asset class. Not particularly exactly like

anything else. And so when we use the word currency, we often talk

about something backed by a government of some sort. Although in

England and many other countries, there is a long history of local

currencies were some institution or group of people will provide some

backing to something. I think it is more interesting to ask whether it

is a good value or store of value is. That is a good point about straw

of value. If I were an online shop, while it except Bitcoin for payment

as the value can fluctuate? That is something that online store owners

think a lot about. It turns out that Colin users, is no reason, is that

it calling orders shops that excepted. `` Bitcoin users love

shops that excepted. A website recently started to accept it and

have $1 million worth of purchases in the first month. If you want to

hate all of your bets and that this interest, you can do this. However,

as the currency has gone up so much in value, some owners that have held

onto it have become very wealthy and that could be an incentive for some

merchants as well. But there have been instances of theft because you

can hack into the algorithm, can you not? There have been cases of

Bitcoins being lost, stolen... Absolutely. We do not know of any

circumstances where are the core technology was compromised but it

turns out that if you are willing to trust someone with your Bitcoin is,

that may not be well placed. In such a young industry, there are of

course some very high`profile situations where perhaps someone

lost coins, perhaps they were just taken. It can be hard to tell. I

would think that as a virtual currency or asset class, protecting

it before people put in money to buy Bitcoins, that has got to be a

paramount issue, is it not? Yes. That would limit the expansion if

people did not feel like they can trust that they are not going to

lose money. I think that is right. There can be real consumer harm as

well. We are talking on the one hand how the technology grows but there

is also the question of how consumers can be protected if they

engage. I think that is almost more important. There are probably a few

million people worldwide right now that use Bitcoin and it is a little

bit like an insane religious army, working on all these different

things all at the time and many are working on just that question. How

to make it safer and easier to use. I think that will get solved. Where

do you see the regulation changing around the world? Are there

particular countries that are doing it well and some that are not? I

think we have got Germany taking a good and early evenhanded approach.

We saw the UK doing nicely also. We actually have some regulation that

was not very thin bull and then reversed it in the last month or so.

We have taken a different approach. `` very sensible. The US Federal

government has been amazingly open and worked with Bitcoin in general

to try to work out how it all fits. I think the countries that do that

will be in some early rewards. They will see capital inflow and on

communal info. Will past experiences hampered the development of

exchanges in the future? I do not think so. I think that if you took

somebody with any market background and they looked at a previous online

currency, they would have been horrified. That is an outcome they

would have expected all. It was really quite lucrative for the

founders and so we know that markets that can aggregate liquidity do in

fact tend to do very well over time. I think as far as money coming into

the Bitcoin on Tuesdays, I think it is likely to push it along because

there is this large incumbents out of the space. That was Peter of the

Bitcoin Foundation. Whether it is fast changing technology or social

media, companies are having to think differently about how to connect

with consumers online. With brands and advertisers, creating a

connection with people seems to be the key. That is all we have time

for this week. Check out our website and add me on Twitter. Join me next

week for more talking business with me.

Good evening. It is pleasant enough in the sunshine at the moment.

Temperatures reached 18 degrees in parts of England Scotland but they

will not have to drop away over the evening and overnight. It is going

to be a mother Shelly won but the frost perhaps not as extensive as

last night, particularly across England and Wales. `` it is going to

be another chilly night.