13/05/2012 The Andrew Marr Show

Good morning. Britain's and Olympic Torch. Symbolising the theft of

fire from the gods. The relay goes back to the Olympics of 1936, yes,

that one - Hitler's one. But, in modern times, it has been a key

part of the build-up. At different times, they have been carried from

Greece by runners, horse-riders, on camels, Concorde, even underwater.

They have been fuelled by everything from butane to olive oil

and carried by among others, Muhammed Ali. Our one, the British

one, being called the cheese-grater, has 8,000 little holes because they

can get very hot and, beginning this week, it arrives in Britain

and is going to be carried through more than 1,000 towns and villages,

on everything from a zip-wire to ice. It is really the start of the

Olympics ballyhoo and, as you may have guessed by now, we have an

Olympics theme today. That includes the paper review, with the double

gold medallist runner, Dame Kelly Holmes, Jude Kelly, of London's

South Bank Centre, who is on the Olympic Cultural Board and Andrew

Pierce of the Daily Mail, hoping for a gold medal in the all-

important marathon lunches category. Well, later on, we will hear from

the British athlete who will carry the torch for real when it is

actually flaming, the triple gold medal winning sailor Ben Ainslie.

We will talk about tickets and how we are placed generally as Britain

prepares for the Olympics with Lord Sebastian Coe - a great athlete

himself of course. He won four Olympic medals, then Tory MP. Now,

above all, the man in charge of the London Games. It will be a great

summer for couch potatoes but what will it do for the health and

vigour of the country long term? And we're joined too by the man who

has perhaps the biggest Olympic headache, the Defence Secretary,

Philip Hammond. Questions for him on security at the Olympic Park,

plus an embarrassing government U- turn on fighter aircraft. Away from

the Olympics, Trevor Phillips is stepping down as chair of the

Equality and Human Rights Commission. Is Britain less

prejudiced now than when he took over? And what is the truth about

his clashes with the Government? Finally, the man who will sing at

the end of the Olympics, Damon What's perhaps the final Blur song

will be heard as the Games closes. Today, he will be playing from his

solo album, an Elizabethan story, which is part of the cultural

Olympiad. So, let's get going, starting as usual with the news

from Riz Lateef. Good morning. The Ministry of Defence has confirmed

the death of two British servicemen who are killed in Lashkar Gah in

Helmand province yesterday. One soldier was from the Welsh Guards

and one from the Royal Air Force were providing security for a

meeting of local officials. They were shot and killed by members of

the Afghan police force. The families of those involved have

been informed. The bodies of a father and a boy have been

recovered from the River Avon in Warwickshire after their rowing

boat went over a weir and capsized. It happened yesterday near Barford.

Two other children who were in the boat are in hospital, one is in a

serious condition. The accident happened in early evening in what

were described as hazardous white water conditions. The father of

three children, all aged under 10, had set out on a small plastic

rowing boat on the River Avon. The boat appears to have gone over a

weir and capsized. Two children were pulled the short by a police

officer and passer-by. The girl had a cardiac arrest and needed

emergency treatment at the scene. She was taken to Birmingham

Children's Hospital. Her condition is described as serious but stable.

The boy was conscious but poorly. As the emergency services search

the river, they found the body of another child - a boy and father,

late on Saturday night. Tonight I have been looking at emergency

services workers who have been in tears. You do not see that very

often. We are all feeling it. We are feeling for the family tonight

as well. Police are due to breed the villagers of Barford later on

the circumstances surrounding the deaths. They have described this as

a difficult and tragic incident. The President of Greece is

overseeing a last ditch attempt to form a new government. It is a week

since the elections in which no party won an overall majority. The

three parties which did best, have all so far failed to assemble

coalitions. The main sticking point has been disagreement over the

strict austerity measures needed, in order for Greece to receive

further bailouts from the EU and the IMF. Patients are being treated

in corridors and left on hospital trolleys for hours because of bed

shortages, and nurses' union is warning. This comes from a survey

by the Royal College of Nursing. This woman knows all about

pressures in hospitals. Her father had to wait on a trolley for 21

hours last year. Her mother have waited 10 hours for a bed at the

same hospital in Belfast. It became apparent that things have not

changed. There was a shortage of staff - shortage of nurses -

shortage of doctors. The nurses' union asked 10 Baeza members to

share their experiences of patients being treated on trollies. --

10,000 members. 21% said patients would be treated in corridors at

least once a day. -- were being treated. This survey clearly

demonstrates to us that progress that had been made in previous

years is now lost. Things are going backwards and they're going

backwards fast. The Health Minister in Northern Ireland has apologised

a number of times to patients who have had long delays. In England,

the Department of Health says it would take action against hospitals

who fell to ensure patients get beds quickly. It is the final day

of the Premier League season and the contest is going right them to

the final whistle. Either Manchester City or Manchester

United will take the title. Both are level on points. Manchester

City are at home to Queen's Park Rangers and United are awake at

Sunderland. Now, on the front pages today: William Hague has given an

interview. You must work harder. Who is you? It is YOU. There is a

story about how Andy Coulson called the bluff of David Cameron. There

is a story in the Observer about Mara in schools. Also �100 Boots

purchase to be given to tearaways. In the Sunday Times, talk, --

talked of Macro is going to give an opt-out to families who do not want

to get any porn, abuse or violence on of websites to protect families.

We need to start with politics. Independent on Sunday is

serialising an updated memoir of Cameron, practically a Conservative.

It says Andy Coulson is -- so desperate was David Cameron to

recruit him, that he refused to sign a confidentiality deal. That

could come back to haunt Mr Cameron. He was asked about the diary he

kept. He said it was not the diary that he had kept detailed notes. I

hope they're more detailed than Piers Morgan. He described in vivid,

glorious, technicolour detail coffee with Tony Blair and Cherie

Blair in March, 1997. The trouble is then it would have been coffee

with John and Norma Major because Labour did not win the election

until May, 1997. If you are a political leader, the last thing

you want is an experienced Trav -- tabloid journalist in trouble who

has been working closely with you and kept notes. I think it would be

a very interesting and compelling memoir. The other huge political

story is the euro crisis - Greece and Spain. Greece is in terrible

trouble and without a government. This is a great title. We are

seeing true Greek tragedy. That is true. I had come back from Greece

at last night. The stories on the streets are frightening. Ordinary

people were actually saying to me, they were considering leaving the

country because there didn't have anything to eat. I have never heard

anyone say that to me in a modern day spate -- estate where people

look after and that are not any more. You looked at that story and

then you have here, in the Observer, two different analyses of what

should happen. The economics editor says, there is no choice, they have

to leave the euro. Another quote of Shakespeare says, there will be

havoc and the dogs of war will enter. I understand that if they

leave the hero there will be real difficulties about have Greece pays

full of baby foods, basic goods and stuff coming into the country. --

for baby foods. You do wonder how long be sticking plaster can hold.

It is a terminally ill patient. Argentina, they devalued. Then they

were booming. It is not clear what Greece has to offer itself. We will

talk more about the Olympics later on. You have chosen a story from

the Sunday Express. Children get risky fact box on the NHS. --

operations. This is gastric bands and all that kind of thing. There

is always this thing about young people found obesity rates being up.

If parents are encouraging sport of young people at a young age, they

will ultimately choose a healthier lifestyle. There is a lot to say

with the fact in fruits and takeaways that schools try to do as

much as they can to prevent this. What is not happening is the Health

and the sports departments do not speak. I do not get it. I do not

get why it is a common thing. They are saying the NHS will become

bankrupt in 2025. If kids were running and jumping and catching

pulls a bit more, they would not be in this position. They would have a

healthier lifestyle. That is all it takes. I agree with taxation of

higher fatty foods to encourage people to have a look at the other

options. Then they need to bring the price down of those, I expect.

That is the problem. I do not know if anyone has seen the story on the

internet about the schoolgirl who has been posting has school lunches.

They are meagre and miserable looking objects. Anyway, we must

move on. Gay marriage is a huge story in America. President Obama

is the first President to back single-sex marriages. David Cameron

was backing gay marriages but it was absent from the Queen's Speech

last week. The Children's Minister said, it was the wrong thing at the

wrong time. He has been slapped down by the Lib Dems and he is not

alone. Philip Hammond is the first Cabinet minister who says he does

not agree with a match because it is too contentious and too

difficult at the time. -- gay marriage. As a member of Stonewall,

I was never aware there was a huge pressure for gay marriage. Civil

partnerships seemed fine. David Cameron will probably have to

completely retreat on this. In the Independent on Sunday, it says the

UK is the best place in Europe to be gay. Monaco is at the bottom. I

just think this is something that the public, they do not care enough

about it and that is a good thing. Gay marriages will happen gradually

and they should. It is great that Britain, by being easy, has managed

to get itself in a situation where it believes that people should have

rights. It is not an electoral It is stunning. It has 8,000 halls.

That means that there will be 8,000 torch-bearers. I was looking in the

Sunday Mirror about the people that are proud to carry the Olympic

flame. You have everyone from war heroes to cancer sufferers, the

young, the old, a 100 year-old lady carrying the torch. It is great to

have high profile sports people. Ben Ainslie will be starting the

relay, but I absolutely agree with having people that have done great

things in the community. That moment when they hold this for

their 300 metres, in the local town, they will feel so proud.

Olympics can feel like it is a bit of a club for other people and this

is a way of knitting it into the rest of the country, getting

everyone close to it. It has to be gains for the United Kingdom and

the rest of the world, but it has to be for real people. Not everyone

will get to see the games at large, but they want to feel part of it.

If we're going to have a legacy, it is going to be about the story's

afterwards. I would always encourage the IOC to try to speak

about the story of the Olympics and Paralympics more than they do. The

symbolism of the idea of running for peace, which is what it always

was, I do not feel we bring those stories to the surface often enough.

The whole idea of the flame of peace is something that the

Olympics has cornered and I wish it used it more strongly. It is coming

here in six days' time, after the opening ceremony in Athens. This is

the horrific story about Rochdale up and the sexual exploitation.

There is so much confusion about this, because this is about

criminality and gang culture. It is nothing to do with being a Muslim

or otherwise. That is clouding the issue completely. Men will target

vulnerable people. You do not think there is any issue about the way

that women are seen in one community? There is an issue, but

if you slice that up and say, who will be marginalised the most, that

will get us into trouble with our own community? Then you could say,

those would be a young white women. I will speak about that later with

Trevor Phillips. Let's keep moving, the armed forces, Kelly, as for Met

-- as a form a serving soldier? Military suffer a shameful abuse at

the hands of the public. I do not understand this. Soldiers have been

reserved service in pubs. -- refused service. You have 16 year-

olds going to fight for their country. These are every day people.

I want to get in this William Hague story. This has echoes of Norman

Tebbutt and get on your bike. He is saying, stop moaning. That is

because the budget went down so badly, not least with members of

the business community. He is the right MP to give that advice,

because after he lost the general election as Tory leader, he worked

incredibly hard and made at least �1 million on the international

lecture circuit with his book! Thank you very much. Many of you

may have looked up and seen something unfamiliar and shiny in

the sky this morning. Will this break in what has been a dismal

break in what has been a dismal spring go on. The Let's take a look

at the weather. -- Let's take a look at the weather.

Good morning. The son is set to disappear behind rain clouds this

week. But not in the southern half of the UK. There will be a

strengthening breeze, but the winds will be more significant further

North. That will bring some wet weather. The pressure is hide to

the south of boss, and that is squeezing the isobars. It is

already raining quite hard in parts of western Scotland. That will last

through the day. Patchy rain to the South East of Scotland. Further

south, you stay dry. Not as funny as this morning, but in these --

not as sunny as this morning, but there will be some hazy sunshine.

Overnight, the temperature will be around 8 degrees in the south.

Cloudy in the south tomorrow with outbreaks of rain. For many, it

will be a story of dry and bright weather, with a scattering of

showers. There will be some heavy showers across the North of

showers across the North of Scotland and England.

Since he took over as chair of the Commission for Equality, since

expanding to include other minority rights, Trevor Phillips has never

been far from the headlines. He has upset the left over

multiculturalism. Equalities rows never disappear, of course. Davies

the current one about the exploitation of children by

Pakistani men and of course, gay marriage. Trevor Phillips, welcome.

You're organisation was involved in the Olympics bid as well. We have

worked with Sebastian Coe and his team, and the Olympic bid was sold

on the diversity of London. It is the most welcoming city in the

world. I think we can look forward to a good summer. You have had 10

years at the top of this organisation. Has Britain changed

much in that time? There has been an enormous change. We have the

most advanced equality loss in the world. People come from China to

speak about how we work. The BNP was decimated a couple of weeks ago

in the local elections while the Right are advancing across the

continent. I have a work, rest and play Test. We ask people, would you

mind having a female boss, and neighbour of a different race,

would you mind if your daughter married someone of a different

religion? The numbers now are dramatically different to 10 years

ago. You struggle to find anyone who has worries about those issues.

You are stepping down. Looking back, what is your greatest regret?

public official would say that everything has gone perfectly. But

you learn. If I had to pinpoint one single thing, I wish that when I

took over 10 years ago I had been more aggressive on the issue of

trans-racial adoption. If I had ordered an inquiry into that at the

time, I think it would have shown clearly that the life chances of

children would have been much better in a family of any race,

compared to staying in care. We would have then been able to change

the policy in local authorities 10 years ago. My personal regret is I

think that hundreds, maybe thousands of children would now be

in families, who got stuck in the care system. If I had to do

something different, I would do something about that. To be clear,

these are very often black or Asian children who were not adopted by

white families because there was a sort of hostility to a white

families taking children from different cultural backgrounds.

Because they are trapped in the care system, they are likelier to

stay institutionalised and run into trouble later on. I did my first

film on this 30 years ago. It shows that being in the care system is

the surest indicator that you will end up in crime, in drugs, that you

will be unemployed, and that your children will repeat your

experience. It has always been like that. If we had been more

aggressive on this issue, we could have transformed the lives of many

children. What about the criticisms that have been made of the

Commission itself, most recent by the Home Secretary, saying it has

not made the more -- the best use of money. You set up an advice line

and not many people have used it. You have come under criticism for

being too domineering as a boss. This work is a conflict zone. This

is an area in which there are strong opinions, there are

passionate issues, life-and-death issues. It would not be surprising

if one did not collect enemies and so on. Show me someone who has no

enemies, and I will show you someone who has never made a

decision. I spoke to the Home Secretary on Friday. Peace has

broken out and we all believe that we're going in the right direction.

We have solved some of the problems the commission had to begin with.

What would you say to those who it say that it is all about public

mood, and you do not really need a commission, a public body. Why have

the organisation at all? Let me deal with one practical point. The

only thing that matters in Britain today is the economy, and can we

fix it? Interesting research from the United States shows that anti

discriminating legislation, properly enforced, has made a

positive 17 % difference in America's GDP over the last seven

years. That has to be the priority for my successor. We cannot have

discrimination shutting people out of the labour market and from

contributing. Deer subjects which have been in the newspaper review

it. -- two subjects. The first is this grooming case. Where do you

stand on the point that there is a cultural problem in the Pakistani

community about how men regard white women. The commissioner will

review this, but the most important thing about this at is that these

men are criminals. Anyone who says that most of the men are Asian and

most of the children are white, that is not relevant. It is fatuous.

When the children's commissioner does her report, I will be looking

to see answers to two questions. These that are closed communities.

I worry that there were people who knew what was going on and did not

say anything, either because they were frightened or because they

thought, that is just how white people at their children carry on.

The other thing, do any of the agencies who arcane for these

children, did they take the view that being aggressively

interventionist to save these children, would that lead to the

demonisation of some group because of the ethnicity? If either thing

is true, it is a national scandal and something that we need to deal

with urgently. What about the gay marriage issue, because you cover

the whole range of equality. Some people think this is one issue too

far? They are saying it is one issue too far because it will take

time. It will only take time if they make a fuss about it. Actually,

they have lost this one. The country thinks, what is the fuss,

get on with it? A lot of the people who are making a fuss, religious

groups, I have to say that for those people there are many more

important things to object to. If we want to make this country at

better country, campaigning against gay marriage is not top of the

agenda. It is not even important. To the people who say that marriage

has been this way it for centuries, remember that I was born into a

world where a marriage in the United States between someone like

me and someone of a different colour was not possible. My message

to David Cameron and friends is to get on with it. My message to other

people is, get over it. Get on with something that really matters. This

is not the ground on which to fight the battle for the place of

religion in public society. It is an important battle but this is not

We started the programme looking forward to the Olympic Torch Relay,

which begins in the UK on Saturday. And a few days ago, the athlete who

will carry the torch on its first leg in Cornwall was named. He is

Ben Ainslie, three times Olympic gold medallist, who is competing

once again in the Finn Sailing Class. I caught up with him in

Falmouth, where he has been training and asked him just how

much of an honour it was to be asked to begin the Olympic Torch

Relay. It is going to be an amazing honour. I think really it is a

fantastic moment for the country - to have the first moments of the

Olympic flame in the United Kingdom. For core more as well, to have

those first moments of the flame on home soil. -- Cornwall. So, how are

you with the running? You are not a runner yourself. A sprint, Jock,

what will happen? I have to get 200 metres down the road. I was

thinking of calling a Usain Bolt to get some tips but iOS think even a

sailor like me can make it down the road. -- I think. You are going for

your 5th Olympic medal. You are no stranger to the tension beginning

to build up. How are the athletes feeling now? This period is the

most critical in an Olympic campaign. You are coming down to

the final days of training - every day camps. You need to stay healthy

and make those days count. There will be a lot of tense athletes

around at the moment. Really, it is also extremely exciting that the

Olympics are so close. You are sailing again in the Finn class

boat. How are the preparations going? The preparations are going

well. I had a few issues at the beginning of the year with a back

injury which I have overcome. I am back sailing 100%. The world

championships start very soon in Cornwall. I'm looking forward to

that. Back up to Weymouth and Portland on the Olympic waters and

getting ready for big games. Back in the world championships in Perth,

there were extraordinary pictures. A media boat got in the way and to

reveal let them have it! I think that was definitely a once in a

lifetime experience. It was a very difficult situation, very

frustrating. It should not have happened and I over-reacted. You

learn from these things and move on. He is hoping for calmer waters this

time around. Thank you very much indeed. The only person who is

probably under more pressure than the athletes is the man who, more

than anyone else, is responsible for making London 2012 happen. Lord

Coe, Sebastian Coe, is chair of the London Organising Committee of the

Games. He is the one ultimately responsible for preparing and

staging the Olympics. Presumably he has to answer to the IOC if

anything goes wrong. Sebastian Coe is with me. So much to talk about.

Let's start with one other things that gets people hot under the

collar - the tickets. It is said almost two-thirds of the tickets in

the main venue for the top events are actually not available to the

public. They are there for the big wigs and corporate sponsors. That

seems a very high proportion. of all the tickets available - the

11 million tickets available - are in hands of the British public. We

make that commitment at the beginning of this process and, at

the end of the process, we will deliver it. There are big ticket

events where, a large chunk of the stadium, is taken up by media as

well. The 100 metres ceremonies and things like that. The most

important promise that we have committed to was that 75% of the

tickets will be going to the British public. A lot of people

perhaps, if they are lucky enough to get a ticket allocation at all,

and they find it is for and no doubt where the butt of school

sport at an early stage, will be disappointed. -- are you

disappointed with the number of people who will not be able to go

there? When you have 2 million people chasing a -- 200 million

people chasing 23 million tickets, there will be disappointment. There

was disappointment. That is why, since the opening round of ticket

sales, we have committed to getting as many people from the initial

ballots across the line. That is what Friday and Saturday it of this

week were about. 25,000 people did not get tickets in the first and

second rounds. That is why we gave them 31 hours. At 11 o'clock this

morning, there will be access to 9 million tickets. The overall point

is that there has never been a ticket in the history of sports

tickets that has ever had such an extraordinary demand. We committed

to three important things - the first was to make sure of the

venues were full. We will achieve that. Affordable prices - two

thirds are �50 or under. If you look at any Premiership match today,

back bench marks pretty well. As an organisation that raises a large

chunk of money from the private sector, we had to hit revenue

targets. We are on stream to do that. There is a sense that there

is a corporate hangover over the Games. For a lot of people it is

slightly symbolised by what appears to have been a heavy handedness

about the use of even something like London 2012 and the local

bakers who want to put London 2012 on than doughnuts. If I said it was

the Andrew Marr Show London 2012 show, you could have me, and led

off. I probably could not because the BBC up their rights holder. In

protecting those sponsors who come to the table with lots of money to

stage these Games, the operating budget is, in large part, our

ability to stage the Games, is in large part based on our ability to

bring sponsors to the table. We have done that. The BBC is a rights

holder. We would be protecting you from the thought that other

broadcasters... Of your organisation from the thought that

other broadcasters might be ambition what you have paid for and

delivered. What about local bakers who want to put something on their

doughnuts and cannot? Our first point of call has not been

litigation. By protecting these brands and protecting the companies

that have put money into the Games, we are also protecting the tax

payer. If we do not reach those targets, be tax payer is the

guarantor of last resort. What you have to do is deliver a Games which

works. Everyone needs to see it as a success. What about the longer

term legacy? It is great for couch potatoes but there is a real worry

that there is not going to be enough of a legacy. Kelly Holmes

was talking about young people in playgrounds not doing enough. Will

there be something this country will remember and change the

national attitude in any way to sport? That is why I went to

Singapore. I could not see, in my lifetime, a better vehicle for

encouraging and inspiring young people to take up sport. It is

always a challenge. I have never doubted the biggest challenge

outside of delivering 26 simultaneous world championships,

over the course of 12 of days, I have never doubted the biggest

challenge outside a project manager was to make sure that, in 10 years'

time, Ince -- in the unlikely event I am talking to you about where we

have got to, that we are able to look back and say, yes, more young

people are playing sport by yes, the community we have already

transformed in East London is still working and in a sustainable way,

and that the cross any sliver of that legacy that we are delivering.

That is the challenge. We had the torch over at the end of these

games. Whether or not that happens is, in large part, due to local,

national and political energy. A lot of things are in place. I spoke

to 22,000 kits the other night and the eve of the school games.

Because we have seen very good flight on the wall documentary

about this, do you know the difference between legacy and

sustainability? -- a fly-on-the- wall documentary. Yes, I too.

you very much indeed. Of course, the most important factor at the

Olympics, like any major event, is going to be security. Protecting

the venues by land, water and air is going to be a huge task.

Recently we have seen sites allocated for missile launchers and

13,000 military personnel are going to be on duty. So how confident can

we be that London 2012 will be safe? Joining me to talk about that,

and some other political issues is the Defence Secretary, Philip

Hammond. Can I just start off, we have heard a lot about missile

sites around London and so on? What actually happens if there is a

plane coming across that is not responding to air traffic control

that the military is worried about. We have missiles to take it down

for us of who takes that decision? We have a well-rehearsed plan for

dealing with road aircraft 24/ 7. During the Olympics there will be a

prohibited zone around the Games centres in London. The additional

resources we are deploying are because the small size of that so

means the decision-making time will be significantly reduced. The whole

process of identifying a rogue aircraft and dealing with it

becomes much more time compressed. Whose duty is it to say, yes, Sue

that down? Ultimately the Prime Minister. -- and shoot that down.

There is a group of people who are able to do that. I will not say who

they are for obvious reasons. There is a well-rehearsed routine for

such events. This is meant to be a celebratory events that everyone

enjoys. These are still tough times. It will feel too much like a ring

of steel around the Olympic site. Absolutely not. All games since the

Atlanta Games have had a significant security presence

around them. We did a big live exercise with the military over

last weekend and through part of this preceding week. The idea is

that the military will fade into the background. We wanted to be a

first full of sport and culture. The military will be there and we

want people to know they are in the background to provide ultimate

reassurance. Can I ask whether this is in response to a specific

threat? Is there something you are worried about? It is the fact that

there is no specific threat to the Games. Another area of military

controversy is the absolute you turn the Government has done on the

fighter jets that are going to go on the new aircraft. -- U-turn.

David Cameron and Conservatives in general roundly mocked the Labour

Party for taking the wrong decision, saying they had the wrong claims -

silly fools - we will put it right. Now, you are going back to the

Labour Party version of the plane and you are spending an enormous

amount of money reversing policy. It is a huge embarrassment.

facts have changed and we have changed our minds about the right

decision. The bizarre decision that the Labour Party took was to buy

65,000 tonnes -- 65,000 tonne carriers and not have the ability

for aircraft to take off. That is the big, historically an unanswered

question. Why did Labour do that? Our job is to make the best

possible military use of them without busting the Budget.

have said, we will go back to these planes. Can you explain how much

extra money that will cost the country? I said on Thursday, we

have spent about �40 million on design work - on fitting cats and

tracks to the carriers. There may be �10 million of exit costs around

the project. Fitting ski runs could cost another �50 million. We are

looking at �100 million on a 10 billet -- �10 billion project.

said in terms of the cuts and austerity, it is finished in terms

of the armed forces. You have said it is finished as far as the Civil

Service is concerned. That will alarm a lot of Conservatives.

me be clear what I said. The announcements we have already made

about reductions in manpower are as far as we need to go to balance the

budget. There are further reductions in the size of the Army

to get down to the 82,000 we have announced. There will be further

tranches of Civil Service redundancies to get the Civil

Service than to the size we have announced. I was answering a

question about whether we will have to do another round in the future.

We have announced the size of the MoD and the size of the Army that

will be sustainable for the future. We have heard some bad news this

morning about Army deaths in Afghanistan. What can you tell us

about that? It is still early days. With these incidents, the

information that comes in at first is often infused. I would send up

my heartfelt condolences to the families and friends of the airmen

and God's men who were killed. What appears to have happened is that an

Afghan police officer opened fire on a mentoring team - support team

- working with the Afghan police. One of the assailants was killed,

we think, by other Afghan police officers and one escaped. That goes

directly to the criticism many people are making of this war,

which is, we keep being told that our forces are doing good and are

preparing Afghanistan's for secure and independent future. The people

we are supposed to be training, some of them turn round and attack

International terrorists were launching attacks on our society.

In five years' time, will it be again? That is the mission we have

embarked on, making sure that the insurgency is controlled, that the

Afghan security forces can control the country when we end our combat

role in 2014. To put this into context, the British forces water

alongside Afghan forces every day, with thousands and thousands of

contacts with them every day. This country has an insurgency going on

within, and sadly, these events occur. We do not know what the

motive was yet, we do not know if this is someone who had infiltrated

the police, or whether it was a policeman who simply had a

grievance. Remember, this is a society where people traditionally

settle grievances by violence. Let's turn to this society where we

have less of that. There is a big argument going on about the

direction of the Government and whether the Government is spending

enough time focusing on the growth of the economy. When it comes to it

gay marriage, is that something the Government should be focusing on,

or should it be dropped so we can get on with the rest of the

business? The answer is in the middle. It is not the number one

priority if you stop people in the street and ask them what their

concerns are. They will speak about economic growth, the level of the

wages they are earning, rising prices, crime, immigration. Should

you press on with the legislation on gay marriage or not? There is no

legislation in the Queen's Speech. Did is a consultation going on, and

we should listen to what people are saying in response to that

consultation. The Government has got too sure that it is focused on

the things that matter to people in this country, not just the short

term things, but the long term things as well, the education

system, the welfare system, which is like turning around a

supertanker, and making sure that the welfare system pays. These are

things that will affect the long- term prosperity of our people.

reform of the House of Lords matter to people in the street? If you ask

people about the principle that the people who govern them should be

elected by them, I am sure that almost everyone would agree with

that. If you ask them if it is the most important thing on their

agenda, they will tell you it is not. If you tell them we should

sacrifice legislation to strengthen families, to deal with crime and

support growth in the economy, if we should sacrifice that to force

through controversial constitutional legislation, I am

sure that most people would say, focus on the things that matter to

us in our every day lives. legislation on gay marriage and a

great argument about the future of the house of Lords are things, that

India view, -- that in your view, should be in the pending tray?

will proceed, the legislation will proceed, but the question will be

to what extent the Government should be prepared to clear the

decks of everything else to deal with a long, and possibly complex

war of attrition over this very complex piece of legislation. I

think the public would expect us to take a balanced view and to get it

through if we have time, but not to throw everything else out if that

is what is required. You have a brand new opposite number in Paris

and they want to get their troops out of Paris pretty fast. Do you

have concerns about that? concern is that the NATO countries

went into Afghanistan together and we always said we would, it

together. It is important for alliance cohesion that we have a

properly structured exit, but it is clear that in parts of Afghanistan,

the security situation is already such that it is possible for troops

to withdraw from a fighting role. The area that the French occupy in

their support to the Afghans is a relatively quiet area, so it

probably will be possible for the French to withdraw their troops

over sensible period of time, without any sensible damage to the

effort. Thank you very much for speaking to us. Now over to Riz

Lateef for the news headlines. The Ministry of Defence has

confirmed that two NATO servicemen killed in Afghanistan yesterday

were British. The incident happened in the Lashkar Gar district. The

men, a soldier from the 1st Battalion, the Welsh Guards, and an

airman from the Royal Air Force, were providing security for a

meeting with local officials when they were shot and killed by

members of the Afghan Police Force. The Defence Secretary told this

prop -- told this programme it is believed that they were shot by V8

members of the Afghan police. He also spoke about the security

effort for the Olympics this summer and confirmed there was no specific

threat to the game -- to the Olympics, and that the military

would fade into the background. Trevor Phillips has said that it is

fatuous to say that the men involved... Trevor Phillips told us

programme that he was worried that in a closed community other people

may have been afraid to speak out about what was happening.

That's all for now. The next news on BBC One is at 11 o'clock. Back

to Andrew in a moment, but first a look at what's coming up after this

programme. We will be asking if the Pakistani

community should put its house in order following the Asian grinning

case. And should you imply a private detective to spy on your

partner? This woman started a female detective agency for people

to do just that. And should doctors be forced to act against

conscience? Now, as we heard from Jude Kelly at

the beginning, there's a lot more to the Olympic experience than just

sport, and few artists are going to be as busy during this summer as

Damon Albarn. He's going to be performing his latest work, Dr Dee,

at the English National Opera. And there'll also be a little more of

this. # He lives in a house, a very big house... Yes, the fringes may

not be quite as floppy as when they duelled with Oasis for number one

in the charts. But the legendary Britpoppers Blur will perform what

is possibly their last ever gig at the Olympics Closing Concert.

This is going to be a brand-new Blur song that you will be belting

out at the end of the Olympics. Now? No, at the end of the

Olympics. Yes, maybe a couple of brand-new songs. This may or may

not be the last Blur. Definitely the last. Definitely the last

concert. What we will hear from you in a minute is Dr Dee, which is

back to an earlier Elizabethan age. It is our rock opera that you have

written? Not rock. I do not even know if you could strictly collet

and opera. I would like to call it a song cycle with dramatic bits.

Her dramatic song-cycle. At the English National Opera? Yes. We did

it in Manchester and it was more of a workshop, T pooed his record out

as a sampler, a taster for people. It will be different for people who

are used to Blur. Yes, but when it starts in the Colosseum in June, I

hope it will have a proper narrative and feel like an opera.

Briefly, you are taking a train to Africa? I am taking a train around

the UK in September, the African Express. It to raise money?

just to bring musicians from Africa, and visit places like Bradford and

Swansea. Thank you. That's almost it for this week.

When we return next Sunday, the torch relay will be underway and

the Olympic flame finally on these shores. Plenty more from us then,

from the worlds of politics and culture. But now I'll leave you

with Damon Albarn performing O Spirit, Animate Us from his album,

Dr Dee. From me and all the team, # Oh, Father. # We who have become.

# Hallowed by the night. # Our demons done. # Father, give your

# Oh, Father. # Not be tied. # Keep my spirit strong. # The charge of