01/11/2015 The Andrew Marr Show

New laws are coming, allowing the state to spy on all of us. This

morning, how safe can law-abiding Britons feel.

With me today, the Home Secretary Theresa May. She has also been voted

the most popular politician to lead Britain out of the roof. What does

Nigel Farage, Ukip's leader, make of that and the barrage of pro-Brussels

arguments now coming from the likes of David Cameron? If all of that

makes you feel comfortably numb, worry not. I am joined as well by

the great Dave Gilmour, the guitarist and singer behind Pink

Floyd. Back on the road again. And reviewing the papers, Labour's Jess

Phillips and the Daily Mail's Amanda Patel. But first, the news with

Steph McGovern. A day of mourning will be observed

across Russia to remember the 224 Most of the dead were from

St Petersburg, where a tourist The plane's black boxes have been

found, but there's still no explanation

as to what caused the crash. In a windswept desert, the wreckage

of a plane carrying Russian tourists back home after a holiday in the

sun. The aircraft apparently broke up in midair. Egyptian officials say

the debut was spread over several square miles. The Egyptian Prime

Minister who visited the crash scene dismissed claims of a missile strike

by Islamic militants. He said the plane's recovered black box

recorders would show what happened, but he thought the most likely cause

was technical difficulty. TRANSLATION: The emergency ministry

in Russia said it was sending several planes to Russia -- Egypt

overnight. One of them was due to start bringing back the bodies of

the dead. Buses have already been seen leaving Cairo airport. In Saint

Petersburg, relatives of those who have died will be offered

counselling. This man's wife was on board. He said he was on his way to

the airport when he got a call saying the plane had crashed. The

first images of the victims are beginning to emerge. There were 25

children on board. An international team of investigators will try to

find the cause of the crash. The wife of the co-pilot told Russian TV

he had been worried about the technical condition of the plane,

but the airline Metro Jets said the plane was in good shape and the pile

was very experienced. Police and security services won't

be given the right to see everyone's internet browsing history, as the

government seeks to ease concerns Details of the new measures have

emerged, as ministers prepare to publish landmark legislation to

fight terrorism and serious crime The bill has been dubbed by some

as a "snoopers' charter". Privacy campaigners have vowed

to fight any attempt to force Voting has begun

in Turkey's second general election in five months, which was triggered

by a breakdown in talks President Erdogan's AK party,

which lost its parliamentary majority in June,

has promised a return to stability, after a series of bomb attacks and

rising ethnic tensions linked to the Almost six million people are paid

less than the Living Wage, The number has risen

by half a million in the last year. It comes as another report, from

the employer group, Business in the Community, says companies can reap

rewards by improving staff benefits. Riot police, armed with batons

and shields, confronted crowds throwing bottles and chairs

after an illegal rave in London. Trouble erupted as hundreds

of people attempted to get into the event on Black Prince Road

in Lambeth. Four police officers have been

treated at the scene The disturbance lasted

for several hours, and was contained I'll be back with the headlines

just before ten o'clock. The Observer saying that Theresa May

has been forced to backtrack over the so-called Snoopers' Charter. Is

that true? We will find out later. The Sunday Times, did Isis down that

Russian plane? The answer seems to be no, because the missiles would

not have reached that far. The Independent on Sunday, death in the

desert. Lots of things to talk about and a great piece in the mail on

Sunday. Talking about the cover-up of the Iraq war revelation saying

that ministers were told to burn evidence. We start with the two

reason may cover-up, not cover-up, backtrack, you turning. I was ticked

off by the reason this morning in the corridor, saying it is not the

Snoopers' Charter, that was a different legislation. This is

another one. I think you have done my interview for me! LAUGHTER

It raises the debate as to whether the government should have more

powers to look into our internet history or not. There is a very good

piece from Henry Porter in the Observer, where he says this is

basically the civil liberties argument. Don't be called, it is

just another way of the government being able to pry into our lives. I

would be quite happy for anyone to look at anything in my internet,

they can look at my Tesco shop, messages from the office saying my

column is rubbish, they can see it all if it keeps people say. There

are a lot of people who appeared to being actual physical to save we

want to be kept safe but don't want to publish our internet data. You

might not mind your Tesco data, but your credit card information is on

there, and as TalkTalk hackers have told us, this legislation would mean

that small companies who do not have the same levels of encryption would

have to keep data for months and months, and your data could be

hacked, what will it be used for? I don't care, if there was not another

bombing in London. Unless you are planning one, I don't suppose it

matters! I think we can be sure that she is not. Now then, the Russian

plane disaster is everywhere. Quite a lot of the papers are leading with

the Russian airliner. Isis have taken credit for it. " Credit", as

such. A strange thing to take credit as such. It is an absolute tragic

disaster but it is not known what has happened yet. It is hilarious to

think someone would take credit for something like this. But actually we

will probably know later today once the black boxes have been opened.

They can tell a lot from that. But it takes them weeks and weeks to go

through it all and it does seem rather a hideous thing for Isis to

say yes, we killed 25 young children. One child was ten months

old. It is the fact it is a Russian airliner, I think, that makes it

questionable because of Russia's involvement now in Syria.

Potentially reasons to be worried, but at the moment it looks very like

it was just a thought with the airline. Just a terrible tragedy.

There was a lesser tragedy last night. But a tragedy from your point

of view, nonetheless. The great All Blacks scuppering the Wallabies,

they were crushed. New Zealand are a fantastic team. Jim White got very

excited in front of the Telegraph, he said this New Zealand team worth

"not just the finer side ever to play their game, but the best team

in the history of sport". I don't think so, but it was fantastic. I

have watched most every single match and I don't know very much about...

I haven't watched a single second of it I'm afraid to say. You have so

missed out. All it represents is that my father has not baby-sat my

children for however long it has been going on. I hope somebody will

be dropping them around him later. The All Blacks winning I think is a

great thing, but... It has been a completely brilliant tournament, and

how often do you get to see that many hunky men on the TV set...

Despite Scotland being robbed. Oh, stop. Let's go to the Sunday Times.

Another U-turn from the Tories. We should say the minister in charge Mr

Gibb has been tweeting it is not true already. Tell us the original

story. The original story is that Nicky Morgan will do a speech on

Thursday this week that says they will climb down from all of the

testing they will do on primary school children. It is a bad week

for the Tories were a lot of their plans, Snoopers' Charter, tax

credits, and now this are having to be backtrack. It is basically about

small children being tested. I have children who are seven and ten, and

the amount of ridiculous testing their teachers are put through in

fact. It seems like a bit of a victory for the union to miss one,

because they have had a look at this one... Which is probably why they

are tweeting it is not true! We can't leave the rugby without this

wonderful new love affair. Jerry Hall, the great Texan model, and

Rupert Maiga, they are now -- Rupert Murdoch, they are now an item. You

can be the younger woman if you go out with an 84-year-old man, I

suppose. Or the carer, I think you will find. Shaker Aamer back in the

UK. The Daily Mail campaign for him for a long time. It has been a

difficult campaign in lots of ways because many of our readers who

don't believe there are -- that he is innocent. There are a lot of

people in this country who think we should be able to bang people up

without trial. I don't believe so, it is completely against everything

that our democracy stands for. Like the other 12 detainees from Quantel

Abeid who came back, he will get a million quid out of the government.

He has already started suing. -- from one can obey. The man -- Quandt

obey. one out of 12 did that. I don't

think the one needs to be highlighted. A very interesting

story, the novelist John Lanchester. Who wrote the brilliant book,

Capital, and now owning the idea that the crash in 2008 is just

happening all over again and we are about to walk another crisis, where

house prices are hugely rising and it is about to crash all over again.

Why didn't we see it coming when it has happened in such recent... So we

could be on the edge of yet another bubble, and other financial crash,

that will worry an awful lot of people. Toby Jones who starred in

that film Capital will be on sofa in the next couple of weeks. Another

disturbing story in the papers today. Did Julia lies that the prime

cause of death among men under the age of 45 is suicide now? I mean it

is just staggering. That report was out this week or that said that

young white boys are the ones being left behind educationally, in terms

of getting jobs as they get older, and it just seems a terrible social

trends that they are becoming this minority, often the Mayan --

majority, who are just let down by everything or part of society. There

is an argument at looking at how we gender our services. What is that

mean? Certain services are targeted at women, very specifically targeted

at women and actually mental health services and what this newspaper

article says has failed to reach men. It has failed to target it. If

it was a shaving foam company, rather than the NHS, it would have

had to target at men better. I am tempted to say perhaps we should

have international men's day! You might be tempted to say that but it

wouldn't help any of these people. I raise that obviously because you had

a ferocious argument with a Tory MP, who went for you, and then you had a

horrible lot of trolling online. You had a very rough week, picked up by

the Observer. Leigh it is. Tell us a bit about what happened. Like many

people before me, like you I'm sure, people threatened to rate, bind and

gagged me on the internet this week because I spoke from a feminist

perspective, which apparently is anathema. It is what Barbara Ellen

says is it is just another story about a woman getting threats. We

have become anaesthetised to it. When I look at the comments online,

social media, I seldom do it, but sometimes just for fun I see family

times I am going to be rates. I was getting messages saying that they

hoped I come home and found my sons hanging, and my sons are seven and

ten. I have never done Twitter. I don't do anything like that,

Facebook or anything, because it is just an invitation. And you never

get anything nice. It is just so relentlessly horrible. Some people

would say it is a bit of double standards, you admiring those hunky

rugby players in their shorts, and if I was a bloke saying I love

watching Wimbledon for women in those shorts. I don't care. It isn't

backed up by years and years of only being seen as a six object. It is

completely different. Gang up on me, that is fine. Where are we going

next? Just about men and bolts. I am

pleased to say that there seems to have been real strides in improving

women's Rolan sports. This is the women in charge of tennis. -- woman.

Yes. This summer, there has been a lot of coverage of women in sport.

Football and everything. Lots of girls now play rugby, which

astounded me. Women's rugby is really taking off. But you cannot do

that. Do not be relentless. -- ridiculous. I think we are more

tender on the front. Men are tender elsewhere. I think it is noncontact.

What is the point if it is not contact? This is a man who struggles

with Parkinson's. And cancer. We are all moved by Billy Connolly. He is

one of those people who is universally loved. He has been

writing to his grandchildren since before they were born, because he

knows that they will not have him as part of their lives. It is not about

him dying, it is about him saying, it is a wonderful world. This is

what you need to cherish. Did you see the film where he is playing an

old man who died on the beach. He said that years of fighting so that

his two kids would send him off and burn him. Now we have time for Kate

Winslet. She is saying that her children should put down the iPad

and get of social media. Good on her. Good on her for not wanting her

children to be exposed to the staff that we have talked about, however,

we all know that the iPad is among's best friend. I would not be

able to do some of the work that I do at home if it were not for these

devices. But I see what she is saying. She is starring in the film

that is going to be produced about Steve jobs. She does not like her

children having strangers talk to them. I do not give a monkeys what

these idiots say to me. But my seven-year-old likes to look at

newspaper articles about me. If PCs people threatening his life, that is

pretty awful. I can see where Kate Winslet is coming from, but I will

not be telling my kids to put the iPhone down. Thank you very much. I

work across region's par classmates and it was beautiful. A lovely

sunset. There was an Indian field to the air. What is the rest of

November going to feel like, can it last?

The rest of this week looks mild. We have got these problems with fog

this morning. Hence fog in places costing travel disruption out on the

roads. If you're heading out, your BBC local radio station will keep

you up-to-date with any travel problems. The fog is expensive

across England and Wales. Some for Northern Ireland and Scotland. As we

go through the day, for the South West and West Wales, the fog will

clear nicely. We will see sunshine and maybe 18 degrees. In some parts

of the south-east, not everywhere, and also in the Vale of York,

Lincolnshire, the fog and low cloud mated linger through the day. You

might only get 10 degrees. Sunny spells across Scotland, breezy with

more cloud across the Western and Northern Isles. Overnight, Scotland

should avoid the fog, but it will return with a vengeance at across

England and Wales. Widespread fog, temperatures around 8 degrees. With

all the fog around, the Monday morning commute to be troublesome.

In some places, we will struggle to lift the fog. Across the South West

and Wales, we will eventually get some sunshine tomorrow afternoon.

As we've heard in the papers, a lot about Europe and Britain's

Now whoever ends up leading the campaign

for Britain to leave the EU, no-one has a longer track record on this

Welcome. Good morning. It has been the week when lots of people who are

pro-staying in the EU, and the Prime Minister has made his most

pro-Europe comments in a long time, it is a week when we have been

looking at the options for Britain outside European Union. Can I raise

what the Prime Minister was seeing? Norway spends more per head on the

EU than we do, and more people migrate into Norway than

proportionately come here, so life outside is not quite so sunny? The

fact we are discussing this shows you that the renegotiation is not

going anywhere. Rather than attacking him for his lack of demand

is, he is trying to move the debate on. I find it odd in one way that we

are told by British politicians that we are not big enough to survive on

a run in the world. Then you see examples of little countries advice

-- surviving on their own, and they are much richer than we are, and the

Prime Minister is being disparaging about them. Norway sells 75% of its

overseas goods to the European marketplace. It trades with the

European marketplace at a premium. It has opted to be a member of the

European economic area. It is an anteroom for the European Union. It

means free movement of people, but they do pay some money, voluntarily.

Those arrangements it Norway. We're a country 65 million people. We are

the biggest trading market in the world for the Eurozone. They sell as

?50 billion worth of goods every year, 50 billion more than we sell

them every year. If Norway, Iceland and Switzerland can get deals that

suit them, we can do better than that. Some people say, I would like

to be out of the EU, we can control our borders, our Parliament can be

sovereign again. People are worried about the economic consequences

because they have not heard a detailed account of a relationship

of Britain with the EU. How would it be negotiated? We would be getting

out of political union with Europe and rejoining the world. We are the

fifth or sixth biggest economy in the world, depending on what measure

you use, and we are banned for making our own trade deals with any

part of the world. I want a simple trade agreement with the European

Union, not to be a member of the political club, not to be subject to

the decisions of its courts, and to be free. Would you want access to

the single market? I would want access, just as China and every

other country in the world does, but I do not want to be a member and kid

is why. Only 15% of the British economy is exporting goods to the

European Union yet the regulations of that market affect 100% of the

British economy. Freed from political union, we will go on

buying and selling goods with each other, but we will be free to make

on trade deals until it at the massive European law which falls on

small and medium-sized businesses and say, economically we would be

better off outside than in. Countries like Norway and

Switzerland have to pay a hefty prize in two EU covers for the

privilege of being able to trade. Norway voluntarily pays most of this

money and it does not go to Brussels. It goes directly to the

new accession countries. It is completely different and Cameron put

that falsely the other day. Norway can afford to give people money. It

is rich and successful. It has got fish. Bluetit Scotland than these

coast of England. We have given away a tremendous resource worth billions

of pounds a year. Norway chooses its own deal, we will choose our own

deal. We are much stronger negotiating position the Norway has

been. You said that we could trade with the rest of the world. At the

US trade representative is very clear, he said, we are not

interested in a free-trade agreement with a separate country, do a

free-trade deal -- deal with the EU, and if Britain left, British goods

would be paying a tariff. He has clearly been paid to say that. This

is the big political club gathering around the Prime Minister who is in

desperate trouble. This is laughable. America has a free-trade

deal with Australia. While you seriously telling me that their

oldest and closest global ally, with whom they do enormous amounts of

business and with whom big commercial companies would say, do

not talk such nonsense, he says it is an attempt to scaremonger by a

paid official. It sounds scary to me. He said, it is clear that

Britain has a greater voice betrayed table being part of the EU, part of

a larger economic entity, we are not in the market for free-trade

agreements with other countries. We have no free-trade agreement with

the UK so they would be subject to the same tariffs and other trade

related measures as China, Brazil and India. It is early, so I will

not tell you what irony think about what he said. Go on. Britain has

more influence in the world as part of the EU. We do not even have a

seat at the World Trade Organisation. We have been asked

before to leave the room. El Salvador has a voice. We would have

more of a voice with her own seat at the World Trade Organisation. We're

an independent country. Switzerland has more free-trade deals globally

than we do and she has negotiated for herself. Who is paying him to

see this kind of stuff? The State Department. You think this is the

big eyes ganging up on the UK? It is the big guys politically ganging up.

In the commercial world, this is not happening. The big bosses from this

nursing, we will go on making cars in Sunderland regard -- regardless

of whether we're in a political union or not. Standard we would

lose our triple A rating. Is this the same organisation that must read

the biggest economic collapse of all time? I do not think the economic to

but -- economic credibility is high. These voices are all speaking from

the same hymn book. We know that it does have an effect from the

Scottish referendum. These are political voices. What you're

hearing from the trade envoy is a political voice, not an economic

voice. What we are hearing from big global companies is that Britain

will continue to trade and buy and sell goods and services back and

forward between Britain and Europe regardless of whether we are members

of the political union. Freed from that, we would have better

opportunities globally. Standard and Pereyra said it would be worse for

us if Scotland voted to leave the UK. Do you think that is a serious

threat? They have gone from economic forecasters to political

forecasters. We should ignore them on that. What about the projected

eye watering rises in the UK population, another 10 million

people in a generation. What effect would that have won Britain? I have

been saying this for a decade. The population rising as rapidly as it

is is impossible for our primary school system to cope with,

impossible for our health services, we'll ready have to build a new

house every seven minutes in this country just to cope with current

migration levels. It is interesting that Theresa May is on today because

she has picked up this thing strongly. It has led to a lack of

cohesion and division within our society. Some would argue that if 10

million more people come, our GDP will rise. Some things are more

important than money and the shape and happiness of this country

matters more. If there are another 10 million people in the next 25

years, are quality-of-life will go down. Is there any way that we can

retain control of the number coming in well we are inside the EU?

Absolutely not, that is no way we can do that. We may get a deal on

migrant benefits but we will not get a deal on open door. Two weeks ago,

the EU decided, surprisingly, to speed up the accession deal with

Turkey, which means another 75 million more people would have free

rights to move to Britain or elsewhere. You talk very eloquently

about this. You will have seen that Theresa May is the popular choice to

lead this campaign, according to one newspaper. She is the person who

could bring over dissident Tories, Ukip, how do you react to that? She

cannot bring Ukip over because the figures on that were overwhelming. I

have been campaigning on that for years. That opinion poll said I

could bring people into this campaign from the Labour Party, from

undecided conservatives. Theresa May is the longest serving Home

Secretary of modern times. She has presided over the most disastrous

immigration figures. If that person was to say, I have been at the sharp

end, we cannot do this is EU members, we need a better way, of

course the public would come behind it. So would I. You would welcome

her? I would be delighted. You have more to talk about, including the

by-election that is coming up, but for now, thank you. Thank you.

For rock music fans, this year marks the 50th anniversary

of Pink Floyd, one of the most successful and influential bands

ever, and its leader, David Gilmour, believe it or not, is nearly 70.

But he's touring the world with a new album and remains,

as we shall hear, as radical as ever I'm going to be talking to

him in a moment, but first here's a clip of Rattle That Lock,

# Rattle that lock and lose those chains

Rattle That Lock, that is the new album. You are writing as much as

ever. At your age and stage, are the songs notably different from the

songs that David Gilmour was writing in your 30s and 40s? Hopefully they

are better, there is no intention to them to be anything particularly

different. No, just writing constantly. And what is it about

going on tour again that excites you, because you are doing South

America as welcome all over the place. I would have thought

physically absolutely shattering, so why do you put yourself through it?

Funnily enough, working on the album, finishing the album, doing

all the rehearsals, all the promotional stuff that you do is

harder work than doing the touring, because once everything is settled

and you just had to get on the stage and do the thing that hopefully you

can do reasonably well, it is actually easier. And the touring is

not in term time, we are doing it in school holidays, so that I can be

around during term time for my kids. A lot of this was written with your

wife, Polly Sampson. She is a well-known novelist and story writer

but she rides the lyrics, though she? She has written most of the

lyrics, and on my last album in 2006, and the last Pink Floyd album,

even the Division Cowan Bell, four albums now. You have the Dave

Gilmour team around you now, not Pink Floyd, how different does it

feel? It is not that different, I can be more of a despot, which is

always fun. The whole tour, the music we are playing has taken its

own shape as we have been going through the rehearsals. We can be

forgiven for thinking that it is fairly influenced by some of the

Pink Floyd shows we have done. Of all those great songs, is there one

that you think that is the greatest song I have written? I have an

answer to this. I am intrigued to hear your answer. I love lots of

them for many different reasons. The ones that are the most popular, the

once you play the most often, the once you start thinking, God, have

overly play this song enough? The real answer of course is Comfortably

Numb. Let's here a bit of that. # A distant ship,

smoke on the horizon # You are only coming through

in waves # Your lips move but I can't

hear what you're saying It always gets me. One thing I have

not got, on the Wall, we don't need no education, that seems to be

rather a reactionary sentiment. Roger would say it is all in the

context. I suspect now I'm not sure how good an idea it was to put

something out like that as a single. Because we all do need education.

Absolutely. Roger was talking about the type of teachers and the type of

teaching that was fairly common in schools in this country when we were

growing up. But, no, I think I wouldn't put that out as a song

right now. Speaking of kids, your adoptive son went through the courts

and all the rest of it, the protests that he was involved in. What effect

that have on the family? It is terrible when your son, one of your

children get sent off to prison, and when you are so aggrieved about what

you perceive as the injustice of the situation. He did offend a lot of

people. He did offend some people. His intention was to do good. And he

wanted to fight against student fees for university, something which he

personally was not going to have any benefit from. He took part in those

demonstrations for that reason. But he did sort of loses weight a little

bit. But I still cannot believe -- he did sort of lose his way a little

bit, but what I see as minor offences, don't think he deserved

what he got. Your own parents, they were natural protesters, they were

on marches. A lot of protest in the family. Did rattle those chains and

the themes of that new album bear any relation to what Charlie went

through? I don't think so. Charlie's situation is a very minor

one in relation to all the terrible things that are going on. He has

just been in the papers for being at the protests at Saint Pancras

Station last week. It shouldn't really be part of the story. He

shouldn't be part of the story, it is a much bigger story that is much

more interesting. But I am thinking more about the experience of prison

has led you to work with the Liberty Choir. We will hear from them. A

South London choir, led by a woman who used to do a lot of journalism

here. Part of that choir goes into Wandsworth prison with the blessing

of the Governor of the prison, and in their they get to sing along with

this choir. These are prisoners in the last few months of their

sentences. And when they come out, they are welcomed to go and join in

the South London choir every once we can think it is. And that gives them

a place to go to, a place to help them back into Sciustree edit, where

people welcome them. -- into society a bit. And they get to sing, which

is a joyful, wonderful experience. Because we don't think enough about

what happens to people in prison, perhaps. I can remember a former

chief inspector of prisons saying that there are 70,000 people in

prison and all but six of them are coming out again, so we have to

think about what they will do when they come out again. That needs to

be looked at a lot more, I think. Half of them should not be in there

anyway in my humble view. I am a sophisticated man, I very rarely

shake with when guests are on, but it has been a great privilege to

have you. Thank you very much. There's nobody

in politics facing a tougher week The Home Secretary is

about to publish a new bill to give wide powers to the security services

and the police. They have asked to be able to trawl

through everybody's online activity; mobile phone calls, internet use,

texts, and the rest. There is going to be an almighty row

about oversight and safeguards. Welcome, Home Secretary. Thanks for

coming in. Can I ask first of all how this new measure differs from

the so-called Snoopers' Charter that were shot down in 2012? It is quite

different from the draft an negations data bill in a number of

ways. It doesn't have some of the more contentious powers that were in

that bill. For example, we won't be requiring communication service

providers from the UK to store third-party data. We won't be making

the same requirements in relation to data retention on overseas CSPs, and

crucially, and this is where I take a little bit of contention with what

you have just said, we will not be giving powers to go through people's

browsing history. That is not what the investigatory Powers Bill is

about. I mention it because the police had asked for it and I

assumed you were going to give them that. This is the data, what sort of

thing, who has spoken to who, who has been on what sort of website,

rather than what they have been looking at on the website? Is that

right? Yes, and if I can give a real-life example, if you imagine

that the police are dealing with the case of a missing person, they would

want currently to look to see who was in touch with that individual

before they went missing. So they would look at their telephone

records, they would be able to see who had been telephoned, in terms of

the telephone numbers. Of course, as people move into the digital age,

they no longer always communicate on telephone, they communicate over the

internet, so what we are talking about is just knowing that first

step, who has been contacted. Has Andrew Marr been talking to David

Gilmour, that kind of thing? Did this particular device access what's

at at ten past one, and Facebook at five-minute past two. It doesn't go

beyond that. Another example, because it might be very useful to

know what people have been doing online. Suppose somebody is on a per

no graffiti so, would it not be interesting to know if he'd --

useful to know if he had been searching for young girls or young

boys? It is precisely this area of why we want this ability to look at

these internet connection records. Don't you need to know more, is my

point? If there were more intrusive requirements, warrants are required

for them, and part of the bill is make sure we have oversight

arrangements in place for all of these powers, strong oversight

arrangements. It is about bringing the ability of our law enforcement

and certain security services to deal with the issues they are

dealing with, with the criminals and terrorists, bringing that forward

into the digital age. As the criminals move into the digital age,

so do those who are searching out those criminals and ensuring we can

stop them and disrupt them. You have talked a lot about oversight. One of

the big issues is whether that would be held by politicians, or whether

independent judges will have a role in this. This is talking about the

most intrusive powers, some of the most intrusive powers governments

have the intercept people's communications. We had three

reviews. One of the things the bill is doing is responding to three

separate reviews that took place, looking at these powers. They all

said those powers were necessary. The independent reviewer of

terrorist legislation Parliamentary committee and the Royal United

services Institute, they all said these powers are necessary, but they

all came out with a different answer in relation to the authorisation of

warrants. What I am clear about is I will be explaining what the

government's position is to Parliament this week. What I am

clear about is that there will be in this build strong oversight and

authorisation arrangements. David Anderson, the government's advise on

all of this, was very clear. He said there had to be independent judges,

separate from politicians, involved in the process. Will he be happy

with what comes out? David Anderson said judges should be doing

authorisation, the Royal United services Institute said that some

warrants should be done by judges and some by the Secretary of State.

We have looked very carefully at those are tenants, we have lessened

the people. I have met communication service providers, Civil Liberties

groups, and crucially I have also met charities -- we have listened to

people. And charities representing victims who know what it is like

when people suffer from child sexual abuse and rape for example. So I

very clear at the need for these powers. But with proper regulation,

oversight. Luke what the bill will do on Wednesday, it sets a modern

legal framework but crucially it has very strong oversight oversight

arrangements on it, I think world leading oversight arrangements

within the bill, and it will be clearer and more, offensive and

conference will than the previous legislation has been. When it comes

to the more intrusive warrants, you see about 1400 's of those a year.

Leigh it is more than that. Can I ask how long you spend on each one?

As long as is necessary to give proper consideration for each one. I

take it very seriously. There is time set aside every day that I'm in

the Home Office, there is time set aside for me to look through those

warrants and to decide. And the decisions about interception are

based on necessity and proportionality. Some people

watching will think it is a slightly old-fashioned, system, the Secretary

of State with so many other responsible at his first set aside

time go through these things every day. The case for you not doing it

is quite high, isn't it? The three reviews came out with three

different options. David Anderson was clear that he thought partly in

relation to future proofing on future legal challenges perhaps,

judicial authorisation was the right way. The Parliamentary committee,

the intelligence and security committee of Parliament said there

should be executive authorisation, ie the Secretary of State should

still do it because of the accountability argument. We have

looked at those arguments, listen to what people said, and we will be

bringing for the government's position on Wednesday. It is very

clear that what we will bring forward has very strong oversight

arrangements. After the Charlie Hebdo massacre, the Prime Minister

said in effect we had to having friction removed to protect

ourselves. We could not have encrypted conversations between bad

guys going on and stay safe. Is he right about that? We are not banning

encryption, and encryption is an important issue... Why not it is

important for people to keep people safe when dealing with these modern

communications in the digital age, but we will be setting up a goat

position which does -- setting up the current position, to issue

warrants. What he said was in extremist, it has been possible in

the past to read somebody's letter, to listen to somebody's call, the

mobile communications, therefore he said the question remains are we

going to allow means of communication is where it is a plea

not possible to do that? My answer to that question is no we must not.

The first duty of any government is to keep our people say. That is

true, which is precisely why we are bringing forward the investigatory

Powers Bill. It is precisely why we are setting out a very clearly cool

framework. But encryption can stay? Encryption will not be banned within

the bill but the existing arrangements, whereby obviously the

authorities are able to exercise a warrant to require interception to

take place will continue. Is, the police and the security

services, and that is clearly important, because consensus around

that, but that the other end, there is the story of what is happening on

the streets. Peter Clarke, our former head of terrorism, said there

is a golden thread between the two things. Given the number of police

officers being taken off the streets because of cuts, is that golden

thread being broken? There has been lots of speculation about what might

happen to police numbers. The comprehensive spending review has

not yet been announced yet so the police do not know what they're

funding for the future will be. In 2010, people made a lot of comments

about the changes to police budgets and what that would mean in relation

to a lot of comments about the changes to police budgets and what

that would mean in relation to police officers on the streets. That

was scaremongering at the time? HMRC said that the front line had been

protected. We need to make sure the police can police into Dave's world

of crime, because crime is changing. We are seeing more cyber crime being

committed. It is important that the police have the skills necessary and

how they are deployed to address today's crimes. One final question

about the issue of the week, the Data Communications Bill issue.

Information, none the less, from British people, will be held for 12

months by the big companies. That is a lot of detailed information being

held available to the police and security services, if they need it.

As we have seen from TalkTalk, that is necessarily secure. People can

hack into this information. As Home Secretary, are you doing anything to

make sure that that information will not emerge onto the dark side of the

Internet, or the newspapers or anything like that? What we have

seen from TalkTalk is that people are now going on, what we are seeing

overall, is that criminals are moving into that cyber realm.

Exactly. That is why it is important that our police and agencies have

the powers for them to be able to deal with the digital age. My

question was slightly different. What is the security that you can

offer of people but once this information is stored for 12 months,

it will not leak out again? I was going to come to that point. This is

about balance. It is so important that we ensure there is proper

oversight, but that the police and security services are able to

operate in this digital age. Companies have to look at how they

are protecting the material that they hold for people. So far, not

very well, is the answer. Over the last five years, when we came into

government in 2010, we put a significant sum of money into cyber

security and cyber crime. We have been looking at this issue for some

time. On the cyber crime front, within the National crime agency, we

have set up the first cyber crime agency within the United Kingdom. We

are insuring that the powers and facilities are there to deal with

this. Still a worry, I would have thought. You give an absolutely

blistering speech to the Tory party conference which was deliriously

received. I saw it for myself. You said that the current level of

migration into this country is not sustainable if we want a balanced

society, and it was an effect on social cohesion if immigration

continued at this level. What did you mean by that? What I said about

social cohesion was that if immigration goes to high and too

fast, social cohesion is impossible, so it is important that we control

immigration. Spell out what that phrase, social cohesion is

impossible, means? If you think about it, if you look at people and

communities, if you have too many people coming in at two faster

rate, it is difficult to ensure that people are able to integrate and

participate fully in society. That is why it is important to control

immigration. That is why we have been bringing in controls on

immigration. There is more to do. You're probably going to talk about

EU migration. So far, with respect, with total failure in controlling

numbers. The last few years have seen massive increases, this year

more than 300,000 people have come in. Nigel Farage has said it is not

possible to control that well we are still inside the EU. Over the last

five years, the numbers did start coming down significantly. We have

seen that increase in numbers and one of the reasons we have seen that

increases migration from the European Union. That is why we were

clear as a party in our election manifesto, and we were elected on a

mandate of taking measures to deal with this issue, looking at

questions of benefit and free movement in relation to abuse and

criminality. Can you get anything from the EU on this negotiation on

the free movement of people? We have set out in our manifesto that we

want to look at the areas of benefit that are available to people, and

abuse and criminality. These are not issues that are suddenly being

discussed inside the European Union. I have been talking to Interior

Ministry is inside you look for a while about some of these questions

about abuse and criminality. There is a recognition that these are

areas that we need to collectively look at. Is this your bottom line?

This is a renegotiation that is taking place. If what you say about

the level of migration is accurate and true, then you absolutely have

to stop it in your view, and the only way of stopping it is getting a

new agreement which either limits the free movement of people across

the EU, or severely limits all in work benefits for people coming here

to work. If you do not get either of those things, that must represent

failure? The government is negotiating within the European

Union on these issues and indeed on other issues, as you are aware, the

competitiveness of the European Union, for example. We will conduct

that negotiation and put that package, the revised relationship we

have with Europe, the reforms we have negotiated, to the British

people for them to decide. We are still at the point were those

negotiations are continuing and we need to wait and see what comes out

of those. In terms of straight talking and so forth, if you were

not able to limit the number of people coming in from the EU, could

you accept that? I am confident that from what I have seen from Interior

Ministry is, they are concerned about issues we have raised, and

that is why we are going into this renegotiation, looking to negotiate

a package that will be a different relationship between the United

Kingdom and the European Union. I always like to be helpful on this

programme. I am pleased to see -- to say that I have Andrew Pierce's

piece from yesterday. They think that you are the politician to bring

over conservatives and people who vote for Ukip, people who have not

decided on Britain moving out. Is there any prospect of you doing that

at all? It is a big choice. The government was elected on a mandate

to renegotiate within Europe and that is what I am doing. Some people

say you should be in or out at all costs. I see, let's do this

renegotiation and see what reform we can bring about, and put that to the

British people. We promised the public referendum. The bill is going

through Parliament and they will have that referendum. Is there any

plausible, prosperous future for us outside of the EU? We are

negotiating. The question is what is our relationship with the European

Union? That is what we're looking at the renegotiation. Some of this is

about reform, some of the issues of competitiveness are issues for all

countries within the European Union, not just the United Kingdom.

The renegotiation is what we were elected to do. We will do that. The

British people will have that choice. It will be a massive moment

when the renegotiation is finished. People will have the choice. That is

the important point. It will be for the British public to decide in the

referendum. I am asking what you feeling your waters. It is clear

from the Prime Minister's speech in Iceland this week, he wants to stay.

That is clear, what is your view? The Prime Minister has made it clear

that we are going through this negotiation, working to see a

package of reforms that would enable the United Kingdom to stay in the

European Union. That negotiation is continuing, but the decision will

not be my decision of the Prime Minister's decision individually. It

will be for the British public. Some voices say, whatever else, Spain,

and others say, whatever else, come out, but let's renegotiate and led

the British people decide. I have an instinct which tells me that I am

not going to get a headline tomorrow which says, Theresa May, I am

leading us out of Europe. Thank you very much, that was very

interesting. Now over to Steph

for the news headlines. Police and security services won't

be given the right to see everyone's internet browsing history, as the

government seeks to ease concerns The Home Secretary, Theresa May,

has told this programme that the new investigatory powers are not

a snoopers' charter and that civil liberties groups will

be widely consulted. To -- Theresa May insisted that the

proposed oversight arrangements would help strengthen the fight

against terrorism and paedophilia in the digital age.

A day of mourning is being observed across Russia to remember the 224

Most of the dead were from St Petersburg, where the flight full

Three airlines have decided to stop flying over

the Sinai peninsula until the cause of the crash is established.

The next news on BBC One is at 1 o'clock.

First, a look at what's coming up immediately after this programme.

Good morning. On Sunday Morning Live, as reports suggest that

processed meat increases the risk of getting cancer, is it to give up?

As the Lords revolt, how should the government react?

Britain's burial grounds are burgeoning but what will we do

Jess Phillips and Nigel Farage are with me.

We are waiting for Labour to move the rate for the old by-election. We

think it will take place in early December and your two parties will

be nose to nose, head to knuckle to knuckle in that area, arguing for

the working class vote. And you think that you can win, Ukip? In the

neighbouring constituency, a few months ago, we came within 600 votes

in what was one of Labour's safest seats. It has been a solid Labour

seat. Michael Meacher held that. He was quite left as well. It is not a

far right seat. We are not far party. That is what we do so well

with -- that is why we do is well with Labour voters, unless you think

they are far right. This is the first test of Jeremy Corbyn's

leadership on a national stage. There is a genuine question, does he

believe in the country? He is a Republican. We know he wants to give

the Falkland Islands to Argentina. If you want to talk about tests of

leadership, will you stand down if you do not win the by-election? You

said you would stand down if you did not win at the last election and you

did not. You seem to be back with us. That is not much to do with the

by-election, with respect. THEY ALL SPEAK AT ONCE

You have got a new leader. The question I am asking, is, is he

perceived by patriotic old Labour, is he seemed to be for them, for the

country, and is he prepared to lift a finger to deal with the issue of

immigration? This constituency has been through rapid demographic

change in the last few euros. This is a very important test for Jeremy

Corbyn at the election. Yes, and I think it is one that he will pass.

Lots of stuff will be hitting the people in the constituency hard, and

Jeremy Corbyn has spoken out against that. We will see in December.

And that's all we have time for this week.

Andrew Neil will be here in an hour with the Sunday Politics.

He will joined by the former Shadow Home Secretary David Davis

for his reaction to the Home Secretary's interview.

We will be back next week on Remembrance Sunday.

MUSIC: Boombastic by Shaggy