11/12/2016 The Andrew Marr Show

Times when the bombers who write the news in blood

Times when there are serious questions about whether and how

The Defence Secretary is here to talk about the fight

with IS and why Boris Johnson was wrong to attack the Saudis

And as Labour comes 4th in a by-election and has poll

ratings last seen under Michael Foot, Shadow Home Secretary

Diane Abbott will tell us how on earth Jeremy Corbyn can recover.

And should places that voted to Remain in the EU

get their own special deal post-Brexit?

The Chief Minister of Gibraltar - 97% Remain - is here.

We'll hear from two queens of the stage -

Juliet Stevenson and Lia Williams - who are spinning a coin

every night to decide which of them plays

Elizabeth I and which Mary Queen of Scots.

And playing out us today with a festive tune,

My paper reviewers today, Owen Jones of The Guardian,

the Left's leading columnist, The Timess' Tim Montgomerie,

the conscience of the Right and star of the sofa, Sarah Baxter,

First the news with Christian Fraser.

At least 29 people have died and more than 160 have been injured

in two bomb blasts in the Turkish city of Istanbul.

The explosions happened just hours after the end of a football match

In a split second, life in Istanbul is shaken to the core yet again.

This TV presenter inside the stadium when the first

The attacks believed to have been a car bomb and a suicide bomb struck

at the heart of Turkey's biggest city, although the football ground

where two of the country's teams had played had already

The Government says the car bomb was close to where police

were stationed following the match and that the attacks

were against the security services and citizens.

Turkey has suffered a wave of violence over the last 12 months.

Of the injured taken to hospital, 17 are having surgery,

No group has yet said it was behind the blasts but ten

TRANSLATION: A car that was passing by was remotely detonated.

45 seconds later, a man was stopped where policeman were standing

Turkey faced two heinous bomb attacks.

As more people lose their lives, this country will be

wondering when it will emerge from the violence.

A church roof has collapsed in Nigeria killing at least 60 people.

Hundreds of worshippers were attending a service in

Uyo, where a bishop was being ordained.

Many people are thought to be trapped under the debris.

An investigation will be launched into whether safety

The Government is to release previously confidential Home Office

files about the so-called Battle of Orgreave in 1984.

Clashes broke out when 6,000 police offers were deployed to stop

striking miners from blocking deliveries at the coking

95 miners were charged with rioting and disorder

The Government has ruled out a public inquiry into the incident.

The US media is reporting that Donald Trump has chosen the oil

executive, Rex Tillerson, to be his Secretary of State.

There's been no formal announcement but the two men have met

Mr Tillerson, the chief executive of Exxon Mobil,

has long-standing business interests with Russia.

The next news here on BBC One will be at one o'clock.

I'm here because Andy is away for a few days

The Sunday Times lead is about Brexit but all minds in journalism

is on the face of a a Gill, it says the giant of journalism who died

from a very aggressive cancer at the age of 62. The new court case

threatening to derail Brexit. The familiar tale which my colleague did

a few days ago. The Iraq witchhunt. Witchhunt except paid with public

cash. The Observer is on social care. Tory plans making social care

worse. An interesting story that we make all pay a lot more in our

council tax to avoid that prices in social care. The Sunday mail is

having fun. Toxic texts over the PM's trousers. In The People, dad

dies after 90 minute wait for ambulance.

to look at the big stories of the day.

This is a sad morning. A very sad morning. I was not expecting to talk

about the death of our beloved colleague, AA Gill. Adrian,

characteristically, has had a say himself here. He is on the front

page of the magazine talking about his cancer, about his love of the

NHS, and some of the problems with getting badly needed drugs within

it. He is just the best of us. I cannot believe he is gone. He was

the best writer, the funniest, the fiercest. The most compassionate in

surprising ways. Extraordinary and gifted man. Because he was so

fierce, sometimes to be on the receiving end of AA Gill, a

restaurant review or TV review sometimes was pretty painful. It was

easy to think he was not a likeable man but those who knew him say that

was completely wrong. Some of the reaction on Twitter overnight, some

people he has condemned and known to be a critic of said how much in a

personal dealings with him they found him to be very warm. This

essay in the magazine today is so readable. It is about him, and his

struggles with cancer. In terms of commentary on the state of the NHS,

its strengths and weaknesses, it is a brilliant political analysis as

well. It is talking about what is good at the health service and what

is not. It is tragic. Cancer is a terrible illness. Normally you get a

long goodbye. This was very short indeed. I have had the honour of

being on the receiving end for my overly useful features. I did not

often agree with them but I always found his prose is absolutely

beautiful. A real loss. I want to say how adored he was by all our

colleagues. Everyone, high and low at the Sunday Times were just such a

kind and generous person. He mentors so many young journalists as well.

Let's talk about some of the stories he would have had a big smile on his

face about. Not least the war between the mammy are not supposed

to call Boris anymore, he is Mr Johnson and Theresa May. -- the man

we are not supposed. There is an interesting account about the

behind-the-scenes discussions about the man and the woman who appointed

him. Why did you appoint him question he is quoted to say to her,

take me as I am, please tried to stop slapping me down because I will

not change. Frank Gardner, BBC security correspondent was saying,

people in the Gulf region around the world, part of why he is interesting

is because they do not know what he will say. They find him an

interesting commentator on world affairs. Not many times David and I

agree but what he said on Saudi Arabia and the problems with that

regime were true. If we cannot get to a point where the Foreign

Secretary cannot say some things that are true about our allies,

while at the same time maintaining good relations, then that is

fundamentally a failure in diplomacy. A bit of your heart soars

when someone sticks it to the Saudis. Not the heart of Theresa May

ex-commissioner Mark she has a different job to do. I think most of

us would like to see a bit more of that. -- the heart of Theresa May!

In British politics we do not regret this head chopping dictatorship. It

is exporting extreme ship that is when extremism across the world. We

have dealt with acrimonious battles, but not so much in the Tories. --

exporting extremism across the world. This is from a Tory MP who

criticise the expensive trousers of the Prime Minister put it did not go

down that well in Number 10. Leather trousers worth ?95. People have been

talking about this for weeks. It is a lot for trousers. She has now been

banned from meetings and it is all very bitter. The text says, don't

bring that woman to Number 10 again. That did not go down well with Nicky

Morgan at all. No one brings me to any meeting or if you do not want my

views, you will need to tell me. He just did, so there. Very mature.

Very grown up. I love that. No man tells me. She has even got a touch

of the Doris Johnson these days. People were sceptical about her as a

backbench minister. -- Boris Johnson. Part of the problem is that

the aids Theresa May had when she was Home Secretary, there was often

quite a difficult relationship with David Cameron. They have not

adjusted to the fact that Theresa May is in charge and they must be

more gracious and more permissive, rather than being so defensive of

their boss. Never put anything in a text. You know it will leak.

Meanwhile, that is one small bit of lightness in some grim papers. Lyse

Doucet in one of the papers about the grim news in Aleppo. 85% of

rebel territory has now fallen. When you read about the suffering of the

children of Aleppo, we should bear in mind who is causing it. Putin and

Russia have a lot to answer for here, as well as President Assad. I

know we will be talking about that later. I just want to say, this

story is not always on the front page but it will always be in our

hearts. That our absolute war crimes going on every day in Aleppo right

now. Oris Johnson has had praise this week for telling the truth

about Saudi Arabia. Some people think Donald Trump is doing the same

about Russia. Forget what you think about Russia, forget what you think

about Putin, we must do deals with the man over sorting out IS. Up

until yesterday, one of the thoughts we had was that Mitt Romney might be

Donald Trump's could trust a. Four years ago during the debates with

Obama, he identified Russia as America's strategic number one

adversary. We are not going to get Mitt Romney as secretary of state,

where going to get an oil billionaire who is very pro-Putin.

You are right that we should talk to Putin. There is and article in the

Atlantic which catalogues how this former KGB agent, Vladimir Putin,

has schemed to undermine the democracies of the West and his

plans are now reaching a conclusion. It is a chilling read. In the 20th

century, it was Reds under the bed and allied to Moscow for the

narrative is the populist right that has descended across the western

world which is enamoured with Putin. Whether it is the National Front in

France, much of the Ukip, the Italian Northern league. I do not

think Jeremy Corbyn's the party would in any way suggest it supports

that it Putin. That was part of the row with Peter Tatchell yesterday.

People are open about their love for Vladimir Putin. What is disturbing,

if you take the National Front in France, they are getting soft loans

from National banks will stop it is alarming. I don't want to intrude

too much on private grief. Not a great day for Jeremy Corbyn

yesterday. There was a suggestion that Clive Lewis quit Shadow

Business Secretary, is talking of standing. I know Clyde Lewis. He is

a friend of mine. Maybe the two of you could solve the Labour Party. No

chance of that whatsoever. There is not a vacancy. He is a rising star

for the future. He has a compelling back story. He served in the Army

and grew up on a council estate. You do not think he will replace Jeremy

Corbyn. There is no way he is plotting to take over. It is totally

made up. Words noted. More trouble from the former leader. This is

thoughtful from Ed Miliband for the given the focus on the internal rows

in labour, we failed to hold the Government to account on the absence

of a Brexit plan. This is what Ed Miliband is talking about, access to

the single market. We will not be subject to the courts of justice. He

is making the point the vast majority of people will not accept

any financial cost whatsoever and the argument labour needs to be

making is a deal that puts jobs, the economy, and the living standards of

the country before anything else. You were one of those people, one of

the most powerful people the liver party to go in the direction of a

Jeremy Corbyn leadership. 20 people on your side of the argument are

beginning to say, maybe it is just simply not going to work. In sadness

we need to on. The leadership clearly needs to get

its act together. They have at this bust up over the last year and a

half. The leadership has made lots of mistakes and need to get their

act together. It's not about getting their act together or focusing on

Conservatives, it's about focusing on issues that we care about. We

will be talking about just that with Diane Abbott in a moment. Thank you

very much indeed. Desperate to stay British but just

as desperate to stay inside the EU. That is the plight of

the people of Gibraltar. Just over 800 of them voted

to Leave whilst more Just like the Scots,

the Welsh and the Northern Irish, their government wants its voice

to be heard before Brexit. Fabian Picardo is the Chief

Minister of Gibraltar. Good morning. You are here to talk

to parliamentarians, what is your message to them on behalf of the

people of Gibraltar? I think the people of Gibraltar have been clear

in their expression of the referendum. There's been a number of

referendums, also on whether we want to remain British and our wish there

is even clearer. Therefore looking at what deal the United Kingdom

does, and there will be one UK deal, we mustn't see it as a binary deal,

it will be differentiated for different sectors and parts of the

UK, it will be a multifaceted deal and one of those facets applies to

Gibraltar. Are you saying, just in Scotland are saying we would like a

special deal, that Gibraltar is saying we want our own status,

whatever the UK as a whole has? What we are saying is different parts of

the rules which are today the European rules already applying a

different way to Gibraltar. For example we are not part of the

Commons Customs union, we have a hard border with Spain because we

chose in 1972 not to access the single market in goods. Already

there is a different deal for Gibraltar. In the future that must

be the case too. You are saying, I think, we want to have free movement

even if the rest of the UK does not. That's right. We want to be in the

single market even if the rest of the UK is not. That's right. When

you talk about the freedom of movement in the UK post-Maastricht

you are talking about the establishment in the United Kingdom.

Gibraltar is at the bottom of the continent of Europe, it means

travelling in and out on the day because people don't tend to

establish themselves in Gibraltar but Spanish people come every day to

work in Gibraltar, and we are the second biggest employer in

Andalusia. There may be a stark choice which may be this, that you

have to leave the EU and the single market and abandon freedom of

movement whether you like it or not, however many people voted for

something different in Gibraltar, or you have to do a deal with Spain

over sovereignty and give them some form of shared sovereignty. How

would you choose? I don't think it would come to that but if it did, we

are not going to change our views on whether we remain British or not. We

will continue to stay British even if that seems like a hard choice

now. Do you fear that is a game the Spanish might want to play at the

last minute, the Spanish Prime Minister talked about planting his

flag on Gibraltar. Some believe that that one minute to midnight with

negotiations the Spanish will say the whole deal is off unless you

give us some shared sovereignty over Gibraltar. That was the last Prime

Minister, so Gibraltar hosts thank him for being so open and clear in

the wake Spain was going to focus the issue under his period... But

there is a risk that can't could be played? There is a risk Spain could

fail to be sensible in its approach because it is at much at risk for

them to have a Gibraltar that continues to provide jobs. If they

play that card, it would be in other areas as well. And we have this

conversation with Theresa May? Yes, I have spoken to Theresa May and

Boris Johnson, they are listening, we are participating in the

committee on Gibraltar specifically and I think it's going very well

indeed. Thank you for joining us. We may all be hearing

the sounds of winter - of snow and sleighs and Santa,

but we've been feeling So, what's the weather got

in store for us next week? It has been really mild over the

last week or so, after that cold start of December temperatures have

been rising. Actually today it is looking a little bit cooler than it

has done over recent days. A cooler air mass across the country but

drier and brighter too. Today it is back to sunny skies. Further north

across the country, a little bit more cloud so any sunshine will be

hazy and we have some mist and fog patches slow to clear towards the

south. Temperatures around nine or 10 degrees so feel unpleasant enough

with the light winds and sunshine. This evening and overnight we will

see some dense fog patches forming over the south-west of England,

Wales too, and later in the night that missed and Fox working more

widely across Wales from southern England too. We have more cloud and

a breeze around too but the chilly start a Monday morning and a grey,

murky day. That fog is slow to clear, then drizzly outbreaks of

rain in western areas. The scenarios staying dry with some brightness but

it will feel cool at 6-12 . For the week ahead, it is unsettled picture

and temperatures will stay reasonably mild for the time of

year. Thank you very much indeed.

Stop the infighting, pull together and back our leader,

That was the message three months ago when Jeremy Corbyn was fighting

Yesterday's Guardian pointed to the party's dismal by-election

performance and poll ratings showing stagnation tipping towards decline

as part of a deeper malaise in which Labour were offering no

The Shadow Home Secretary, Diane Abbott, is one

Good morning. Is this a day to be honest with people, to say it is

bad, not what we hoped for three months ago, but we will sort it? We

have gone through a very difficult year as you know and it was always

going to take time to pull round from that. The recent by-election

result was disappointing but we are coming together now, we have a new

Chief Whip, Nick Brown, one of the most experienced party managers in

the House of Commons, and I think that as we come together, as you

hear less noises off, I believe we can close the polling gap. I saying

the reason for this dismal by-election result, 10% of the vote,

you came fourth, remember under Tony Blair it was 34% of the vote, are

you saying this is the continuing legacy of disunity? There is a limit

to what you can extrapolate from by-election results and both of

these were once we could never have expected to win but the most recent

one... You did worse than Ed Miliband did, much worse than Tony

Blair. Reports of the Labour Party's demise are much saturated. We are

the largest social Democratic party in Europe and the huge surge in

membership is due to the current leadership. We have the right

policies on the NHS, on investing in the economy and the Tories are

fatally split on Europe. It consumed John Major's midship, David Cameron

and I believe it will consume Theresa May. Many people knocking on

the doorsteps in Richmond, where you have fewer votes than members, in

Sleaford where you got less than a third of the number of votes than

Tony Blair got, one of the reasons many said was a confusion on the

doorstep in answer to a simple question and - are you in favour of

Brexit or in favour of stopping it? We are in favour of respecting the

votes of people who voted for Brexit. It would be damaging to

dismiss those votes in the way the Lib Dems are. It can work for the

Lib Dems in seats like Richmond, it won't work nationally. We are also

in favour of getting the best possible negotiating deal. We are in

favour of what is good for the British people. It is not a simple

position, is it? If you knock on a doorstep and someone wants to know

which camp you are in. One of your MPs yesterday, Steve Reid, said you

risk being the party of 0% because if you are one of the levers, 52%,

you might want to go off and vote for someone who really wants to

leave. The Lib Dems for example, who are desperate to stay. I miss you

job my raw of Steve but he is wrong on this. What we have got to do is

not just speak for the 40%, or for the 52%, but bring the country

together and hold the Tories to account. One of the things that's

happening is the Tories are completely mishandling Brexit. All

Theresa May can say is Brexit means Brexit. We want to be clear about

how Labour will handle this in the future, particularly if the Supreme

Court rules against the Government. Are you saying to people we will

block it if we don't get our way on workers' rights and other things, or

are you saying because we respect the will of the people we will vote

for this come what May? We won't block this in a trivial way, but if

we lose access to the single market let alone the customs union that

would be a huge blow to the British economy. So in those circumstances

you might block it? No, block sounds like we are being wilful. We will

make the case for what's right for the British economy. You know that

all oppositions can do in Parliament, because usually they

lose votes, all you can do in the end, whatever your view is on

anything, is try to slow business down or defeat the Government and

I'm asking you the bottom line, ie when the end willing to frustrate

Brexit if Labour doesn't get the things it thinks is important? Just

last week Keir Starmer. Theresa May to do something she had sworn she

would not do and come forward with her negotiating programme, some sort

of white paper so we believe that step-by-step we can shed light on

what the Tories are doing and hold it up for the public to take a view.

I'm no clearer on whether you will frustrate Brexit some instances or

never. You make it sound like we are playing a game. What are you

prepared to do? We are not trying to play a game, we are trying to get

the best outcome for the British people. One of the things you say is

important is access to the single market, that means freedom of

movement, doesn't it? So are you saying to your supporters it is

economically in your interest to keep freedom of movement? Access to

the single market and freedom of movement are inextricably linked and

it would be wrong to put the economy anything other than first. So in

other words yes, you have to stick with free movement. That is going to

be in the negotiation but it is misleading to suggest to people that

we can access the single market and just dump freedom of movement. The

Swiss had to keep a measure of freedom of movement, as did the

Norwegians. This is why people talk about confusion, the man running the

mayor, Andy Burnham, said the freedom of movement has been

defeated at the ballot box, it is no longer an option. You are saying it

is. We believe in regional autonomy and Andy has always had those fields

but the truth is you cannot have access to the single market without

a measure of freedom of movement. Carwyn Jones is the leader of the

Labour Party in Wales and accuses you of having a very London centric

position, this is not the way people see it outside London. Wales and the

West Country and the north-east are some of the parts of the country

that have the most to lose by coming out... He is the First Minister, the

leader of the party in Wales. I know, but I'm saying that some of

the areas that were most pro-Brexit are some of the errors we need to

fight for in terms of investment and protecting British industry. Though

as an inner London MP you know more than the leader of the party of

Wales or the man running for mayor of Manchester? If you are talking

about immigration in my experience is Labour Party members want

immigration rules that are fair and reasonable management of migration.

Do believe that people who want freedom of movement want to see less

foreign looking people? There is that element. Does Andy Burnham

think that? Or the leader of Wales think that? I do not park all the

people who voted for Brexit with the same brush. You have to

understand... The people who complain about freedom of movement

complain about foreign looking people. People are very frightened

about this debate on Brexit. One of the things we want to do is to

secure the position of EU residents living here. People are frightened

and they need reassurance. You have promised at the beginning of the

interview to close the polling gap. When? If it does not happen but most

of the critics of Jeremy Corbyn you can dismiss as lifelong enemies. You

are a great friend. Is that there a moment when even Diane Abbott looks

and says, maybe this simply is not working? We have had a pretty

difficult 12 months. We have the right policies. When? Within 12

months. It will get better in 12 months. Thank you custom-built talk

to you again on the sofa later. Watch a coin spin and it's almost

impossible to stop yourself guessing, hoping even,

that it will come down Imagine, then, what it must be

like if you're an actor who's just taken to the stage and know

that the way the coin falls will decide which part you play over

the next three hours. That's what Juliet Stevenson

and Lia Williams are doing every night as they play two queens -

Elizabeth I and her deadly rival Mary Queen of Scots

in a brilliant new production of Schiller's great play

"Mary Stuart" which I was lucky The coin got

the audience's pulses racing - The pulse kind of jumps out

of your skin and it's It's kind of great because the set

looks, feels, very much It's circular and the audience

kind of hugs the set. Then the coin is tossed

in a circular, bronze bowl There's this kind of level

of tension in the audience which we feel palpably,

and we kind of lock onto each other Do you end up, Juliet,

thinking I hope it's I had only one ambition really,

which was not to have a preference. I thought, it would just be

a nightmare if, when the coin is spinning, my heart

is in my mouth, saying, So, my ambition is to feel equally

happy about whichever I think, the truth is,

you always love the Queen, So, it's sort of like having two

simultaneous love affairs, which I've never had,

but it would be Presumably you're just in love

with the person you're with at that moment

and then you shift. What's fascinating is they really do

feel like one person. Did you think when you were first

told by the director, did you think, this is a gimmick,

a huge challenge? Was it clear there

was a point to it? I thought it was a gimmick,

a fun gimmick, very challenging and exciting and

therefore said, yes. I thought, secretly,

this is a gimmick. I don't think that any longer

at all because the more I looked into and read, or we read,

about these two queens' lives, an element of chance

was an extraordinary strong In the play, Elizabeth

is on the throne and Mary has been Elizabeth spent her

childhood growing up. Her father Henry VIII had passed

two Acts of Succession, naming her a be said and outlawing

her, and she was brought up under house arrest and in the Tower some

of the time and so on. So, she had a terrible childhood,

was more or less a prisoner, while Mary was Queen of Scotland

from the age of six days old. So, the element of chance played

a huge role in both their lives. The main example of that is that

when Mary fled Scotland after the debacle with Rothwell

and the murder of Darnely and so on, she was heading for France,

where she would have been safe. But the wind changed and blew her

ship onto the English coast, so she had to ask for asylum,

as it were, in England, I think that's where the coin

spin is not a gimmick, It frames the story in a wave

which is really interesting. The role of populism,

the role of public opinion and how someone in power reacts to that

flows through this play. You can see the audience

living it in this year, which has been a year

like none other. One of the most extraordinary

resonances between the play and modern time is that this idea

that what seems to be the case, what appears to be

the case, becomes reality. So, in the Brexit campaign we're

told ?350 million will go to the NHS and people vote

according to that pledge. As soon as the vote goes through,

that promise disappears, Trump's campaign built

on all sorts of constructs and promises and pledges

that again magically disappear The idea that seeming and appearance

and spin and PR is basically what is controlling the electorate

and that does not have to be maintained or

supported in the event. The difference between seeming

and reality, there's a line which Elizabeth says, when she says,

"the way that things People don't look deeper,

don't dig down in to the complex, narrow-sighted truth of things,

that's her line. That's a very resonant,

shouting line and theme in the play, You're not content with playing two

queens, you're also playing a woman who might have been Queen,

Wallis Simpson, in The Crown. She too, it seems to me,

you've turned into, or the production has turned into,

a character with whom we're more Peter Morgan has quite cleverly -

and interestingly - drawn the facade away and sort

of dug a little bit deeper into who he might

think these people were. You must have been

thrilled, Your Highness. What made you choose

this particular house? It has a two acre park which gives

us privacy and its size means the Duke and I can

finally entertain properly. I believe I had it agreed

as part of the deal that you would give our readers some

tips for entertaining. It fascinated me when I started

researching Wallis Anybody's reaction, even last night,

summary came to the play and said, I never, ever felt that

when I was doing research on her. Maybe we have to find the things

we love in order to be Your Majesties both,

thank you very much indeed. And 'Mary Stuart' is

at the Almeida Theatre The war on terror was

launched 15 years ago. Yet if it ever was a war,

the West seems to be Last night's bombs in Istanbul,

whoever's responsible for them, The Defence Secretary

Michael Fallon is here. Good morning. Good morning. My very

best wishes to andrez he continues his recovery. The good news is he

will be back in this chair next week. -- Andrew. We don't know who

carried out this attack. Perhaps it is a reminder to us of the way in

which complex in the Middle East can easily and are easily spilling over

into the streets of Europe. Our thoughts must be with the Turkish

people this morning another appalling atrocity in Istanbul shows

why we need to keep Turkey close as a member of Nato and why we need to

work with Turkey. The minister will be in London where I will be hosting

account terrorism meeting to discuss progress in Iraq and Syria. We will

be reviewing where we have got to, mapping out plans for longer term

peace in Iraq and the next phase of the operation in Syria. We are just

hearing there has been another bomb in Egypt. This conference, we often

hear said, in the United States and elsewhere, we are winning the war

with IS, isn't the evidence of them taking over at pal Meera, proving

they are very resilient? -- Palmyra. They are now down to their last 10%.

We will be reviewing progress on Thursday of the operation in Mosul.

They are well into Mozilla the moment. The campaign in Syria is

more difficult. On Friday, the Syrian Democratic forces started

their advance on Mac, the other great capital that Daesh is hanging

on to put that they are the biggest threat to western Europe and

Britain. Do you not find yourself wanting to sprinkle quite a lot of

scepticism on them when you first became Defence Secretary in 2014?

The briefings you had, Mosul is about to fall. We are going to take

it. It is a crucial city. Still not taken. They had swept through Syria

and Iraq. Now they are being pushed through Iraq thanks largely to the

coalition. Britain is playing a leading part. The coalition has

carried out 25,000 strikes and the British Army has trained Iraqi and

Kurdish soldiers. The aria is continuing to work on these targets

and opening up the advance to Mosul and now on rack. Is it time to

express a painful truth and say to people, the battle against IS, as

you put it, the battle against Daesh is so important. We must get all our

other concerns. We are going to get into bed with Russia and Vladimir

Putin and once and for all take this battle to them. Putin has been doing

something very different. He has been propping up the Assad regime

and helping them to bomb his opponents in Aleppo, bombing

hospitals, preventing humanitarian aid getting through and prolonging

the civil war. That makes it more difficult. Aleppo is about to fall,

isn't it? It looks as if Aleppo will fall. Will it not be better to say,

let it go? Assad is winning, Putin is winning, we might as well accept

that reality and move on to IS. How can you be winning by bombing

hospitals, locking humanitarian aid convoys? The regime is still opposed

by most of his people. That is not a victory. On the contrary, we keep

appealing to Russia to use its influence to get this civil war

stopped and to help us rebuild Syria with a government that can appeal to

all the people in Syria and then get on with the task of dealing with

Daesh. You're prepared to appeal to the new at American Administration,

when you say let's do a deal with cute in, week, Britain, will hold

out. -- Putin. We have been welcoming the appointment of the new

Defence Secretary, who is to us here. Very highly respected. He was

a former Nato commander. We know him well and will be working with him.

On talking to Putin, there are things we have to talk to Russia

about, to de-escalate tension and explain the purpose of our

deployment in Nato and reassured the eastern members of Nato and

encourage Russia to use its influence where has that implements.

One of the countries is Syria. It cannot be business as usual. We are

talking about the man who looks set to be the next Secretary of State.

He was awarded in person by Vladimir Putin the Russian order of

friendship. He opposed sanctions when Russia moved into Crimea. This

argument in the United States you have already lost. I will not

comment on an appointment which has not yet been made. Would you like to

work with anyone who has had an order of friendship with Vladimir

Putin? I am willing to work with the new secretary of defence, who's a

permit has been widely welcomed by the US military and all our allies

in Nato to be strong against Russian aggression towards Nato

anti-escalate tensions and continue to work with Russia on how we get

towards a settlement in Syria. That cannot be treating Russia as an

equal. It is a strategic competitor to the west. Talking of friends and

painful truths, let's turn to the Foreign Secretary and what he said.

Wasn't Boris Johnson telling the painful truth?

When he spoke about Saudi Arabia earlier in the week? He is promoting

British interests around the world, setting out the new, bigger

international role we expect to play when we have left the European

Union. I'm sorry, I paused because I thought you are going to tell me if

he was or wasn't speaking the truth. He said Saudi Arabia twists and

abuses religion. The Government said he was not speaking for the

Government. So it is your view, is it, that Saudi Arabia does not twist

and abuse religion? The way some of his remarks were reported seemed to

imply we didn't support the right of Saudi Arabia to defend itself, and

it's being attacked by Houthi rebels across the border from Yemen. Some

of the reporting lead people to think that... It was simply the way

it was reported. The wait was interpreted left people with the

impression that we didn't support Saudi Arabia and we do. He is making

that clear by the way in Saudi Arabia today, where he is. So we can

assume he was speaking for the Government when he said Saudi Arabia

twisted and abused religions and indeed were puppeteers and fought

"Proxy wars". So that is the view of the Government? The Government is

clear that Saudi Arabia is entitled to defend itself from the attacks

across the border, it's had its cities in Saudi Arabia shelled by

the Houthis and its leading the coalition to restore the legitimate

government of Yemen. If Downing Street issue a statement saying the

Foreign Secretary is not speaking for the Government, and you are

saying he was misquoted, who are we to believe? You have a big

personality like Boris who makes speeches all around the world, there

is a danger this get over textual light. Downing Street was asked what

the policy is so far as Saudi Arabia's right to defend itself and

we are clear on that. Saudi Arabia is fully entitled defend itself from

missile attacks over the border. Let's talk about the war in Newman.

Do you believe that you as Defence Secretary there any moral

responsibility for the fact there are thousands of dead in that

country, 3 million displaced, so many close to starvation? We have

seen the terrible civil war in Yemen and we want that to come to an end

through the United Nations process. Do we bear any moral responsibility

for it? They are restoring the legitimate government of Yemen. We

have an interest in seeing this civil War brought to an end and the

Houthis defeated. I think you are saying we don't have moral

responsibility. They are our planes, our military advisers and our people

doing the training of the pilots that drop the bombs and yet I'm

unclear on whether you are saying quite right too, this is a war that

needs to be fought and won or if you are saying this is all very

regrettable. They share intelligence with us, on intelligence plots to

this country, they are key investor in this country and a key export

markets, Saudi Arabia is a friend of this country and fully entitled to

defend itself and also entitled to help bring about a settlement in

Yemen that restores the legitimate government and that has the support

of the United Nations. Are you saying in effect we need to be

scared of telling the whole truth about Saudi Arabia, because it might

make us less safe on the streets? We take up human rights issues all

around the world, we take that up with the Government but it's not a

binary choice between saying we will never deal with you again. We cannot

keep moralising in public about Saudi Arabia. If you want to bring

about change there, you have got to work with Saudi Arabia and we are

doing that. The Prime Minister was meeting the King earlier this week

discussing future reforms that are needed in Saudi Arabia to their

economy, to their society, as to how they reduce their dependence on oil

and increase their private sector and provide more jobs for their

young people. Oris Johnson is there today so will he in effect be saying

to them, I think you twist and abuse religion, I think you fight proxy

wars? Or will he have learnt diplomacy? He will be reminding them

we support Saudi Arabia, as I've said several times. I don't want you

to repeat it, you can say something else instead. Is it time to call the

dogs off Boris Johnson? No, as I've said, he's a huge personality,

famous around the world. I sit next to him in meetings in brush --

Brussels and Washington and everybody wants to know his opinion.

You know and I know this is a story not because of what Boris Johnson

said but because of what Downing Street said. How would you feel as

Defence Secretary or many of the other jobs you have done if Number

Ten issued a statement saying that is wrong, it is not the Government's

view? Downing Street was asked whether this misreporting of what

Boris had said, whether that was government policy and Downing Street

simply answered the question, and the question is... The answer is we

support Saudi Arabia. Downing Street looked at an inaccurate quote,

rejected their Foreign Secretary without checking with him first.

That tells you a lot. You really are making a meal of this. Boris's

comment was taken out of context in the reporting that implied we didn't

support Saudi Arabia. Downing Street was asked the question and answer

did. He is free to speak, as are you. We will see you on the sofa in

a short time. Thank you. Andrew Neil will be here

with the Sunday Politics, when former London mayor

Ken Livingstone will be discussing Labour's by-election performance

with the former Shadow Chancellor and Jeremy Corbyn-critic

Chris Leslie. And following that Commons vote

on the Government's Brexit strategy, Andrew will be talking to the lone

Conservative rebel Ken Clarke about the new

Tory awkward squad. And Sir Michael Fallon and Diane

Abbott are with me once again. What did you make of what you were

hearing, particularly on Saudi Arabia? Michael Fallon did a very

professional job trying to gloss over the split between the Foreign

Secretary and the Prime Minister, but in over 20 years in Parliament

I've never heard of Foreign Secretary slapped down the way

Theresa May slapped down Boris. However, you have to say that on

Saudi, Boris is right. They are pursuing proxy wars, particularly in

Yemen and there is an issue we are selling arms to them and they may be

involved in human rights abuses. You were together in the voting lobbies,

voting for Brexit and for a plan. Can you help us, what is a plant? Is

it a single sheet of paper like that? Or is this sort of thing, a

government White Paper? This was an extraordinary vote this week, tabled

by the Labour Party, ended up uniting the Tory party and splitting

Labour, 23 Labour MPs voted against their own party so that was not a

success. Which do we get? You will see the plan when it is published in

the New Year. It is to maximise the security cooperation we have in

dealing with terrorism, to maximise the goods and services we can sell

to the remaining 27 countries, and crucially to regain control over

immigration. Diane I don't think made that clear whether she will

support that when it comes to the detail of the negotiation or not. We

will support what is in the best interests of the country. What

people want is White Paper. I think what Theresa May thinks she can get

away with is one side of a fork. So you want full document spelling out

the options? -- one side of A4. We are taking this step-by-step. We

want to know what the plan is, the Brexit is Brexit thing is old and

cold. We heard from the Chief Minister of Gibraltar saying we want

special status, they said they want freedom of movement and need to have

membership of the single market, prepared to look at that? Gibraltar

is also this special status -- always this special status and the

European treaties have made special provision for Gibraltar, and like

the other overseas territories we have that will have to be looked at.

It is a possibility. If it is going to be looked at, you will need a

plan longer than a sheet of A4. It will be longer than that, but why

don't we have a plan from Labour on whether they want us to regain

control over immigration or not. We want clarity on the thousands of EU

immigrants who are living here, who are very frightened, who you want to

use as a pawn. We quite want clarity from both of you as to what we will

be looking at. It will become clear in due course. We will be publishing

a plan and I don't think you will find that from Labour.

Andrew will be back next Sunday at 9am on BBC One

Our guests will include Doctor Who himself, Peter Capaldi.

For now, to get you into the Christmas mood, one

of the great folk voices, Kate Rusby and band

# Tolling the bell of our Saviour dear

# With this message of truth # All the merry bands of Christmas

ring # Sound so sweet and gay

# May bring you joy and gladness on every Christmas Day

# Carols and choirs filled the air with the joyful sound of hymns

# And fairies joy today with the song that we sing

# Will the joy of merry Christmas bands sing the sound so sweet and

gay # May you know joy and gladness on

every Christmas Day # Peace to the world and peace to

man is the sound of dear bells ring # Nations will follow with this song

the angels sing # All the merry bells of Christmas

ring so sweet and gay # May you know true joy and gladness

on every Christmas Day