02/12/2015 The Papers


02/12/2015

No need to wait to see what's in the papers - Clive Myrie presents a lively and informed conversation about the next day's headlines.


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against Islamic State targets. That is the very latest from Westminster.

:00:00.:00:00.

Let's see how it's all going to be reported in tomorrow's papers.

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Hello, and welcome to our look ahead to what the papers

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With me are Beth Rigby, the media editor of the Times, and the writer

:00:20.:00:24.

Tomorrow's front pages are dominated, as you'd expect,

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by tonight's vote on airstrikes in Syria.

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The Times leads with what it describes as the huge majority -

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of 174 votes - that David Cameron won from MPs for his plans

:00:39.:00:41.

The Express claims the RAF could be ready to strike

:00:42.:00:47.

The Sun is even more specific, "Tornados at dawn," it proclaims.

:00:48.:00:57.

The Mirror calls it "Cam's War," and reports that Labour leader

:00:58.:01:00.

Jeremy Corbyn has accused the PM of rushing into battle.

:01:01.:01:05.

The Telegraph carries an excerpt from Shadow Foreign Secretary Hilary

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Benn's Commons speech on its front page, we must "confront

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The Mail looks further forward, asking the question, "After

:01:11.:01:17.

And the Independent says the vote the is a step on the "road to

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Raqqa," the unofficial capital of the self-proclaimed Islamic State.

:01:26.:01:34.

Well, we are going to begin with the Telegraph, which quotes what Hilary

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Benn had to say. Yeah, he met the Shadow Foreign Secretary and made a

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very powerful speech in the Commons -- verse Shadow Foreign Secretary.

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He talks about being faced by fascists, the fact that these people

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hold us and our values in content, and he gave this very powerful

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speech on the floor of the house, with Jeremy Corbyn sitting next to

:02:05.:02:08.

him, the leader of the Labour Party, who deeply disagrees with him, and

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sat down to the applause of both conservatives and many on his own

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band, which is very unusual in the House of Commons, to hear applause

:02:18.:02:21.

-- bench. Interesting that even at the weekend we were talking about

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whether he could get the numbers for this vote, if he would try to whip

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his MPs, even a month ago that he thought he could not bring ever to

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the House of Commons because he would not be able to get the

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numbers. And then we end up tonight, he has landed 174 majority,

:02:36.:02:42.

a very definite majority. And interestingly, I don't know if this

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was to do with Hilary Benn's speech, but in terms of Labour Tom this

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morning we were talking about 45-50 voting with the Government to vote

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for air strikes, up to 67 tonight -- Labour, this morning. They have to

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be seen in the context of Labour's incredibly pained history. Labour

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has always seen itself as an internationalist party. And Tony

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Blair, when he came into power, fortified walls in six years.

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Everyone thought it was just right. It wasn't. -- Fortt five wars. --

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fought. With regard to Bosnia, it led to Tony Blair to intervene in

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Kosovo and Sierra Leone, then the air strikes, the original ones, in

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Iraq and then Afghanistan. So far, relatively uncontroversial, then

:03:40.:03:44.

Iraq, the dodgy dossier, all of the lies, if that is what you want to

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call it, stretching the truth, Chilcott eventually will come out

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with it, but pretty much everybody knows that the case was manufactured

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a year beforehand. We see this in the context of public opinion and a

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party that has been absolutely traumatised by that year. And then

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absolutely torn asunder by what's gone on over the last several days.

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Jeremy Corbyn versus the parliamentary party that has never

:04:17.:04:21.

reconciled itself. And then here comes Hilary Benn using a sort of

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refashioning, that sort of Blairite, quasi- Churchill, we have to beat

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the fascist, I am getting around of applause in the House of Commons. In

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some ways it has turned full circle. It is also extraordinary to see

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debate -- V debate ending with the Shadow Foreign Secretary and the

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Foreign Secretary both in agreement with each other -- the debate. It

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was incredible and actually, it says here in the Telegraph story, Philip

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Hammond called Hilary Benn's speech one of the truly great speeches in

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parliamentary history. It was a very painful night for

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Labour. Those on the benches were whipped and to Jeremy Corbyn would

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have wanted to whip that vote but he couldn't in the end corral his party

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into backing him. We saw figures on Twitter earlier that said 11 of his

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shadow cabinet members voted with the government. What some of the

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shadow cabinet have said to me in the run-up to this vote was that

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Hillary Benn had been working very hard behind the scenes to make the

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case to colleagues to support the airstrikes where Jeremy Corbyn

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hadn't made that case in the same way. He went on television to make a

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public appeal and direct action has been happening where MPs have

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reflectively been hounded and bullied by some members and Labour

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activists. Just pausing for a moment because we have been told by the

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Ministry of Defence that two Tornadoes have taken off from Cyprus

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but they're not saying what their destination is. It could still be

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the preplanned activity in Iraq. It must be said, it is very interesting

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to me in these moments, and people who have been long enough around

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camera member these occasions of the parliament voting on military

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action, what didn't happen two years ago with the first voting on Syria,

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the government hasn't always given its consent and things have gone

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wrong. Most recently, Libya and we're not even talking about the

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most famous intervention in Iraq. Libya, David Cameron turns up and it

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is the first phase of intervention which often seems to carry a certain

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amount of public opinion along with it. That was deemed OK when it first

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happened. If it hadn't happened, would there have been a massacre in

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Benghazi? Out and out opponents about this military action may come

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together if Daesh gets more strongly hit but then there is the question

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that is already being discussed tonight, what happens in six

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months? As we move through the papers, let's just stay with the

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Sun. It tallies what I have just said to some extent about the

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Ministry of Defence. It is clearly not going to take along now, given

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the vote, before some kind of military action takes place. It is

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quite interesting the way the papers have divided. The Telegraph is very

:08:21.:08:24.

much covering the political debate in the house and the Sun, the Daily

:08:25.:08:29.

Mail and the Times have moved into what happens next, with the

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airstrikes beginning. The Daily Mail is asking what happens next. Let's

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move on to the Daily Mail. It quite often takes positions that you would

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think are atypical for a political viewpoint. It has been quite

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sceptical of David Cameron's attempts to make the case of the

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last several days. Interestingly, however, once the vote has been

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declared, the results, here we just get a snippet of the leader's

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comments praying for the safety and success of the RAF. They are

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basically saying, now that it has happened, they will no longer

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criticize but they have been criticizing up until now. We also

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have people talking about the use of specialist ground forces. They have

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some very specialist security forces who have been deployed in

:09:42.:09:46.

reconnaissance missions or something. Rather than actually

:09:47.:09:51.

having troops. The whole debate in the House of Commons, a lot of it

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was about the 70,000 troops on the ground and whether they were local

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forces. I think any sense that troops from the UK will be deployed

:10:03.:10:12.

in Syria will get MPs extremely concerned. It has been hard enough

:10:13.:10:16.

to bring the country around to airstrikes and what... Let alone

:10:17.:10:21.

with ground troops, and I think what has been the most interesting part

:10:22.:10:27.

of the Daily Mail's coverage is that the country is extremely divided on

:10:28.:10:31.

airstrikes, literally split down the middle. I think that is partly why

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they have taken a more nuanced position, because they are trying to

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reflect both sides. It and so many papers in the road to Iraq were

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fully behind it. So many journalists, so many newspaper

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editors were unbelievably credulous. And again, people forget,

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the first six months of the actual invasion in Iraq was extremely

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successful militarily. The forces got to Baghdad incredibly quickly

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and the first few months were pretty successful, toppling the statue 's.

:11:10.:11:13.

It was only when you got to about August that things start to go wrong

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and then they never found the WMDs that didn't exist. It was not only

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the Daily Mail, but all of the papers at the time. I think there is

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an element of papers having been learned, and hedging bets and being

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more circumspect. What did you think of the debate today? I think Iraq

:11:35.:11:40.

lurks in our minds. But the fundamental difference,, --

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difference, is that the main political and parliamentary lessons

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learned from Iraq, are that any action needs to be endorsed

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militarily. And there is a much greater sense of transparency and

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process now, which certainly wasn't the case with Iraq, whether or not

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you agreed with it on principle. The Daily Mirror are obviously saying

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very clearly, this is now the Prime Minister's for, they are

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traditionally not a big fan of David Cameron. It goes back to Tony

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Blair's wars, Pjanic on him if it goes wrong -- pin it on him. The

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point of this vote is that David Cameron was very burnt when he went

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to the house in 2013 and asked for airstrikes in Syria and was voted

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down. I think it's sort of scarred him in some way, that defeat. So

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what the government have tried to do is build a coalition across the

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House. They were clear that they were not going to come back to the

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commons to take a vote on this unless they had cross party

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agreement and could get that vote through. He was not going to risk

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another defeat. You can call it his war, he is the Prime Minister, and

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ultimately he brought the vote but ultimately, this has been a cross

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party decision and to the fact that 67 Labour MPs have voted for it

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against the shadow of Iraq and against the wishes of their leader

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makes it feel more cross party, and also the Lib Dems backed as well.

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But the much more recent piece of history or present news where the

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bombings in Paris, -- were. If they had not happened, this would not be

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happening today. It seems terrible to say, but there would have been

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something somewhere else because that just seems to be what is

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happening at the moment. It would have been in Belgium or Germany, it

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could have happened in Britain. Seven were foiled in 12 months

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according to David Cameron. It could have happened in any major European

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city but it was the catalyst for all of this and the fact that the French

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were absolutely involved. That UN resolution was very important to the

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Labour Party. I thought Margaret Beckett gave a very powerful speech

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as well and the Daily Telegraph quote her where she said, they had

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been asked to agree precisely because that is what Daesh do. She

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asked how we could turn our back on the French when they asked for our

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help. The Independent have called it the Road to Raaqa. They have a

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strange picture. It is a picture of a demonstrator who has rolled under

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a lorry. It doesn't quite capture the drama of the evening. Although

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it certainly gets marks for being different. But that is the other

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part of it, which we have mentioned. The extent of the

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opposition. Protests are likely to be daily or very frequent all the

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way through. If I had been a picture editor, I would've taken a picture

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of the people physically lying down on the road outside Parliament with

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all the cars being stopped but that was quite a spontaneous moment,

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where these protesters basically completely blocked Parliament

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Square. One other story to mention. Sadly this is the one that has been

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emerging throughout the evening here. The front of the Times

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features it. A photograph of one of the victims being wheeled away to to

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an ambulance from California. Very strange phenomenon of the elasticity

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of news on any day of the week. This would have been blanket coverage in

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every single paper, but the only paper that gives that any coverage

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at all in the first additions we have seen is the Times. Obama has

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been on the airways in the past hour, grim faced again over another

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massacre, saying this sort of gun violence has no parallel anywhere

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elsewhere in the world. Every time this happens, he comes out, grim

:16:49.:16:54.

faced, and appeals to his citizens to deal with it and it just keeps

:16:55.:16:58.

happening. When two people died in a recent massacre in Oregon in

:16:59.:17:04.

October. Colorado was just a few days ago. Really sad. You get the

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feeling that it is his one piece of unfinished business before he goes

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and he knows he is not going to make any progress. On that note, thank

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you very much indeed. Coming up, the latest headlines but before that the

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weather. Wright good evening. It has been

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very mild across southern parts of the evening

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No need to wait to see what's in the papers - Clive Myrie presents a lively and informed conversation about the next day's headlines.


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