06/12/2015 The Papers


06/12/2015

A lively, informed and in-depth conversation about the Sunday papers.


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Now on BBC News here's Maxine with The Papers.

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Hello and welcome to our Sunday morning edition of The Papers.

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With me are former Treasury minister and corporate advisor,

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Angela Knight, and James Rampton, features editor at the Independent.

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The Sunday Express leads with Storm Desmond and reports it has claimed

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its first victim in London - a 90-year-old pensioner who reportedly

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died after the gale force winds blew him into the side of a moving bus.

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The Observer says the Shadow Cabinet is bracing itself

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for what MPs are calling a "revenge reshuffle", following Labour's

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The Independent on Sunday also carries the claims, adding plans

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And the Sunday Telegraph reports on a 'terrorist incident'

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at Leytonstone Tube station after police tackle a knifeman who injured

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three people while allegedly screaming 'This is for Syria'.

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What would you like to start with? The Sunday Express and the killer

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storm? Firstly, I am so sorry, I feel for that pensioner and his

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family. Yesterday the winds were strong enough down here, let alone

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in the North of England. Your conscience being buffeted around, to

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keep your feet on the ground, if you are a bit frail, so a real tragedy

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there. Some of the pictures in the newspapers today are pretty

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impressive. You have water that has risen very quickly opt to the first

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floor, waves, you know. This Israel Dagg the station staff. For a lot of

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people it is not the first time as well. Absolutely. And it may come

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quickly with a lot of wind and rain but it takes a long time for the

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water to go down, the houses to dry and there is more rain forecast,

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following on saturated ground so, yes, it is the same people and same

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part of the country that had it, what, two, four years ago? These

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awesome pictures again, quite frightening. I was speaking to some

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people there, residents and shop owners and they said it was bad

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enough last time but it has risen so fast this time. Since 2000 nine, the

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last major time in this area -- 2009. But the floods have

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overwhelmed those defences, so for the residents, they thought they

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were safe, and now their homes have been destroyed again. Cumbria has

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put out a call for extra doctors. 32 people have been marooned in a pub.

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Worst places to be marooned! But not to sound too facetious, because it

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is serious. And still, a man came on like a modern Bear growls, rescuing

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people with his landowner, so extraordinary stories of heroism and

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very frightening incidents in this flawed and it makes you think, with

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the Paris conference coming on, is this another incident of global

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warming, and the way that we deal with the world, because this will

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change this town for ever -- a modern-day Bear Grylls. These

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pictures here. Look at the size of that wave, it looks like it is

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somewhere out at sea, rather than... This is Wales, of course. We

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have been focusing on Cumbria but it has come down the Welsh course as

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well. Pretty terrible in Ireland, too. Yes, and it was the severity.

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This was a very severe storm, and certainly the amount of rain that

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has fallen in such a short out of time. One report said they had had

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in months's of rain in 24 hours, so this is the extreme conditions you

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were speaking about, James. And we are in December, we have not even

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got to spring, and spring tides, thinking of previous years. The

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other aspect is which way the wind is blowing. It is coming from the

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far south-west, and double figures there in terms of temperatures, so

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we certainly have a climate change taking place. I think human spirit

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is coming through as well? I love the story about this chap, calling

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himself the modern-day Bear Grylls, rescuing many people from a flooded

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car park in Carlisle. But you're right about the figures, eight

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inches in the Cumbria and the monthly average is normally 3.4 so

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it is no wonder the defences where overtopped with that incredible rush

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of water coming so quickly, it is bound to overwhelm them. You cannot

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do anything about it. It looks like we will be breaking the records on

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this one. We did that three or four years before and it is quite

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worrying because we do not know where we are going. No more records.

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Now The Telegraph, this horrible incident at Leytonstone Tube with a

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man attacking passengers on the platform? Not too far away from

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where I live and like 6 million people go on the Tube everyday and

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this is what terrorism is about, it terrorises you. Old people walking

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past, people going to Christmas parties, people with children, 7pm

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in the evening on Saturday before Christmas and this man allegedly

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shouting, this is for Syria, running round slashing at slashing at people

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at random with a machete, apparently. Very terrifying and the

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good news is he was extremely quickly silenced by a Taser and he

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was unable to inflict any more damage. It could have been much

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worse. And the police who attended where Borough police who were not

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armed and only had the Taser, so just showing you... The bravery is

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extraordinary. They did a very good job. Many extraordinary things about

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this as well. It was filmed, by a passenger, passer-by or whatever. I

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am amazed someone would stand there filming it but in some respects at

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least it gives a picture, because you know her so often after the

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event, the police did this, the police did that, at least we have a

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record taken at the time. The second thing is the phrase that some man,

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shouted at the individual doing the shouted at the individual doing the

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attacks, you ain't no Muslim, Bruv. And I think that tells us exactly

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what is to be done, and that is that the Muslim community have to show

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those in their community taking these extreme actions that this is

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not what their religion, their faith, is all about. Let's look at

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the Mail because it is also the headline there come on the front

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page, and some pictures there. And you are right. It is extraordinary

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when these happen and we see these pictures being taken. It was on

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Twitter within minutes, and some of it was very shocking so I would not

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recommend people look at it with all the blood and things but the police

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have also been asking people to send in their footage, so probably there

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were more people filming it who have not made their footage public, so it

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is extraordinary, you are right, Angela. It is usually all down to

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what happened, various incidents, and I think Rodney King was the game

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changer, filmed by someone from an upstairs window 20 odd years ago and

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that is when people fought, actually, you know, you cannot get

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away with things. People will be phoning things -- people thought.

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With all the brutality in America, and if this man, you know,

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apparently from this footage, the court him in the act. We even have

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the picture of the person taking the pictures. A telling story for today.

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Let's turn to politics. The Independent. Furious, hitting back

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at Corbyn's smears. Angela? Absolutely. This is quite

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extraordinary. Isn't it extraordinary all this retribution

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and infighting is taking place. It does show many of the MPs and others

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did not accept his leadership in the first instance but, even so, this is

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pretty strong stuff. Inside the paper it tells us that there is an

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intention for a 3 pronged purge, as it were. One of the whip's office

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because they see that as being instrumental in not having been

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prepared to whip for that vote we had earlier this week on bombing

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Syria. And the very fact that the Labour whip's office pressed for a

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free vote. They are also speaking about the organisation, and this is

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actually pretty interesting stuff, because of course we are heading for

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that boundary review of constituencies where a number of

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constituencies, something like 60, I think, will go. Who has the small

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constituencies ends a predominately the cities is actually Labour so

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there is a real Lord Bath in there. The third part is about this action

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plan -- a real bloodbath. The reshuffling of the Shadow Cabinet

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and I suspect that will come first, frankly. James, what you think tells

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us? Without sounding too pretentious I think it is disastrous for

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democracy. What is swirling around inside the Labour Party, the various

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wings of the party. Rumours are circulating, furiously denied, that

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Corbyn was unwell, that he passed out stress in his office last month.

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That is absolutely denied by Corbyn's office but it describes the

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vitriol swirling around. I speak not as a Conservative supporter but I

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think it is extremely fortuitous -- fortunate for David Cameron he is

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confronted with an opposition fighting itself and not the Tories.

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That is bad for democracy because the opposition should be fighting

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the Government, not itself. Looking at the Observer, the Corbyn critics

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fearing what you mentioned, there eventually shuffle. Slightly more

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damage, then? I think it is inevitable. Some would say Jeremy

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Corbyn has actually had quite a good week because they had that free vote

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and then also at the Oldham West while action, that was won. I am not

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sure I exactly take that view, I have to say, but I would pick up

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what James said. Every political party will always have its

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reshuffles, it's different views on issues and it will have a bit of

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factional eyes Asian. This is extraordinary, though. This is

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faction fighting -- factional eyes. What you require for a good

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democracy is proper decent challenge otherwise legislation goes through

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where the principle may be fine but there are checks and balances in

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this world and we rely on them coming out through our democratic

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process. Let's move to the other end of the story, and the bombing raids

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as a result, hitting the oil fields. James, what do you make of the

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result of the vote and then leading into the raids taking place, almost,

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people fought, within minutes? Angela used to be a very highly

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regarded MP and it was an extremely difficult position for all those

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memos of Parliament, we spoke about this earlier. The most difficult

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decision in your political career, to send British people to go and

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fight and potentially lose their lives for their country so I do not

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envy those making the decision and nor do I told condone the attacks

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made on mainly Labour MPs, female Labour MPs, actually. However I

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think, and I had a big argued with my daughter yesterday about this, I

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think it is right to go into Syria. IS does not see any distinction. It

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views its territory as a caliphate to go into Syria. IS does not see

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any distinction. It views its territory as a caliphate saw in

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their eyes thought very powerful. If we had been bombed, as Paris was, or

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attacked, as Paris was, and we had asked for their help and they had

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said no, that would have been terrible. I think standing shoulder

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to shoulder with France is the right thing to do however it is very grave

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and I think it is right Parliament took it so seriously. It was the

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right thing to do. Two other points to add. The first is that this is

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about going for the oilfields as well. If you take out the oil, you

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take out a source of finance. Only one source. Yes, only one source.

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The other thing to look at in this argument is Libya. We are not

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dealing with an organisation that is just in one place, in Isis or Daesh

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or whatever we should call it. It has different parts, different

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communities and groups associated with it and it can reform and

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regroup and of course Libya is another place which is not under

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control and where we can see what we may deal with in Syria reforming in

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a different way. It is particularly scary because there is this

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suggestion that possibly two or more of the French terrorists came

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through Libya, and snuck in the back door, if you like, through Greece,

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and that is very worrying. If they are seeing a way in to attack Europe

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that is incredibly scary, terrorism in its true form, terrorising us. It

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says Tunisia has closed its border to Libya and then the US is warning

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that the town, and I may pronounce this wrong, Ajdabiya, is under

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threat... Let's end on a lighter note. Greenhouse gases will fall.

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Not a lot lighter. There has not been the greatest of continuation of

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economic recovery. OK in the UK but not in other countries. This article

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speaks about, this time, greenhouse gases not rising at the same time as

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economic activity, so that is a critical point. I think it also

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brings to the fore part of the whole greenhouse gases debate and how we

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deal with them that we have not properly focused on. Most people, I

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am sure, do sit very much in the camp saying we do need to do

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something about our carbon footprint, our emissions and all

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that stuff. Let's keep our countries, our world, as clean as

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possible. Secondly, people do not then talk enough, in my view, about

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all the practicalities and costs of dealing with it. Because we all can

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have a really good policy, and idea, and emotional belief in something,

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but unless we have the practicalities we will never get to

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the right solution and hopefully that is where they are going now.

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Absolutely, I agree with that. It is also tied in with this fall of coal

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consumption in China. China produces 30% of these harmful emissions and

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as their economy is relatively faltering that is the issue. But if

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we do not press on with other renewable sources of energy we will

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never solve this problem. I think most people saw the pictures from

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China over the past week or two with the smog. The error is just

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terrible. If you have been there, people wearing the masks. That's

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right and that is why China has no bot into this because their own

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population is suffering but you cannot put in a renewable without a

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back-up, usually, because a renewable by its very nature can be

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infinite soul it is about getting to the practicalities of the

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engineering issues. That fantastic idea of putting a wind power turbine

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in the air, in a sort of giant zeppelin thing, but if they could,

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you know, find that to make it work, to catch the very strong wind at a

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higher level, a fantastic idea. You have to transmit the power, of

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course. And then... My chemistry or level is not standing up, perhaps.

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Physics! I'm sure it would be done through Wi-Fi are something like

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that. Physics, yes, you're right. I probably should not be in charge of

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that policy. I will let you go off-mac and work that one out but

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thank you both of you for coming in to join as on The Papers -- Go Off

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And Work That One Out. Time for a look at the weather with

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Phil Avery. A bit of jollity, we will soon put a

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stop to

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