A lively, informed and in-depth conversation about the Sunday papers.
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Hello and welcome to our Sunday morning edition of The Papers.
With me are journalist Lucy Cavendish and Reuters Business
The new mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, has written in the Observer claiming
the Conservative tactics in the campaign were "straight out
The main picture shows the Leicester City players lifting
The Independent online says the Shadow Chancellor,
John McDonnell, is calling on Labour to support proportional
Two former heads of MI5 and MI6 have told The Sunday Times that leaving
the European Union could undermine the UK's "ability to protect
The Telegraph reports on new figures which the paper claims show schools
in the UK are under increasing pressure, because of EU migration.
According to The Mail on Sunday, a navy officer who trained
in the UK, has fled to Syria to join so-called Islamic State.
And "Dignity for Diana at last" is the main headline in the Express
- with news that her grave at Althorp House
Let's begin with the spy chief story. This intervention by the
former head of MI5, MI6. I don't know what's going to change,
it is an interesting story. And part of it is because it has been leapt
on by Cameron, and now that Boris has left his job he will be going a
big -- on a big tour. The actual story is that the former
head of MI5 and the former head of MI6 has said that it is going to
pose a risk because we are not going to be able to -- to have that sort
of power to get information. It was said that it is like a man running
-- walking out on his wife and children, and it would be a total
disaster, and the relationship would be unhappy. They have also said they
have come to it not from any political viewpoint, so Cameron will
leap on that, and that is a good story for him. Whether it will
change votes or not, it might do. It is unnerving. Security is a kind
of gut issue, isn't it? It is one of the key issues, if you
look at the economy, immigration. It is probably one whether
Government's position and they remain campaign has not been as
strong. This would be positive for them. It
is not the only intervention, so Richard Taylor said last week --
last month he didn't see much of a downside from leaving.
-- so Richard Deerlove. There are also issues as to how the EU
security apparatus is affected by the biggest -- would be affected by
the biggest member of it leaving. To go back to what impact it would
make. Nigel Farage was talking to us recently and he was saying, you
know, we've got the Prime Minister against Barack Obama, the IMF,
Goldman Sachs, in other words the more the elite say we shouldn't
leave, the better it is for his campaign.
Well, that is a very Nigel Farage things to say, we are the underdog
standing up for absolute values... Personally I think if spy chiefs say
it will cause a problem, I would probably listen to that more than I
would listen to Nigel Farage. Boris is going to do all sorts of things
this week, he will be out battling on. Let's see what he says, he will
probably say "Stuff and nonsense." I haven't run MI5 or MI6, I don't know
how that elite power works. I would love to know, I am not going to
know. I am kind of going to trust these two, because they have run it.
Trying to crunch the economy figures, and all these other things.
He can do that...! I guess I can, but you've got near
unanimity on the issue of the economy, this is more difficult for
the issue of the remain campaign. The Brexit issue is kind of
intuitive, so this kind of intervention from experts is
interesting. Let's move on to the election of
Sadiq Khan. The Observer's said, Sadiq Khan accuses the -- Goldsmith
of using Donald Trump tactics to get votes. -- accuses David Cameron.
I think Sadiq Khan could say anything right now, and everybody
would be happy. He really, really wanted that job, and he campaign
really hard and I think his message was very, very clear. -- he
campaign. Somehow or other that campaign with Zac Goldsmith didn't
really work. I think what's really interesting about Sadiq Khan right
now is is he is sort of transcending both parties in a way. He has this
absolutely -- absolute position of power, he is a big personality with
a lot to say, he has a great background. He can say to people,
you can do this, we can all join together, and the Conservative
campaign did come across as being just -- divisive and wrong.
The interview in the Guardian were Zac Goldsmith came out very, very
strongly, very personally against Sadiq Khan was quite shocking. I
think people leapt on that and it became a sort of platform.
He may not have wanted that, his sister even wrote, this isn't the
sort of person I know. But that was leapt on by Sadiq
Khan's team. But that was a very odd tweet from
his sister, he was basically saying he was not strong enough to stand up
to his advisors...? That's not what she meant but...
If you are running a campaign which even people within your own party
say is dodgy, that in itself... We have got a lot of Monday morning
quarterbacks here, and it is a subject on which people probably
come on TV and talk about with less information than they do on anything
else. We don't know why 3 million people
voted the way they did, so we're probably guessing. But negative
campaigning works, it is why people use it. So to be dismissive and say
that is why he lost is focusing I think one particular area that seems
intuitive to us. Obviously this is one of the issues that Sadiq Khan
has drawn attention to in this argument in the newspaper, but he
has talked about a lot of things, and the Telegraph are focusing about
the way he has attacked Corbin implicitly in this article. It does
lay out his thinking on the world as such. -- Jeremy Corbyn. They could
be said -- seen as him saying how he is positioning himself for a
leadership role sometime in the future.
He has only just become mayor! Sadiq Khan takes on with Davidson in
the 2025 election! -- Ruth Davidson. I agree with him,
that Labour did to look out. So he appears modern, with it, thoughtful,
speaking the language people want to hear who are Labour voters. Was the
whole Jeremy Corbyn approach is very inward looking. -- wearers. He is
obviously absolutely passionate and focused. Which Goldsmith has
probably found very difficult. But London in 2015 was one of the
few areas in this entire country where Labour did quite well. So it's
not surprising that a Labour city would vote for a Labour mayor. The
real surprise you might say was the fact that Boris Johnson got the job,
that was a personal thing for him. So it's not surprising Zac Goldsmith
lost in a sense. It tells you the kind of candidate
you have -- need to have, somebody who could talk to a broad audience.
If you look at what Sadiq Khan has written, it is closer to the
Conservative Party narrative, equality of opportunity. A lot of
people would associate Jeremy Corbyn with the equality of outcome
approach. Sadiq Khan came from a poor background, he worked hard and
got ahead in a profession it is quite difficult to get ahead in. So
that is interesting, the broader piece he has written.
The Sunday Telegraph, interesting story. Systems struggling to cope
with 7000 pupils from European migrant families. This of course is
a Brexit story. It is, but it is obviously slightly
-- also slightly more complicated. The 7000 pupils are not necessarily
pupils who have just sort of recently come into the UK. Their
headline looks scary, oh no, there are 7000 -- 700,000 more coming to
school. As Tom said, his children would come into that.
I realised I was in the statistics! You come in as a journalist and
leave as a statistic. Lots of people are not from...
Taking your jobs and your school places!
We've had to be on talking about her running schools is much more
difficult than he thought. He has been open about the fact he found it
very difficult. My own personal story is there has been so much of a
rise in children in the area I live in is -- that last year my son going
into the year seven didn't get a place at the local school, but got a
place at a school 16 miles away. 16?
I went to appeal. But what happened is that the local
secondary school sold off their playing fields and that will
continue... I asked the council how that was
working, why there were so many going into year seven. They said it
was a big birth rate. Birth rates?
I was interested, because I've got a friend who is a Spanish journalist
who said, do you realise there are 800,000 British people in Spain who
tend to be older, and they are "Overburdening our health care
system"? I don't know if these figures are
right... When you look at these numbers in
more detail, obviously as I say I am coming here as part of the
statistics. What -- but with French people, of course, the UK has been
one of the biggest French cities. But the issue the Telegraph is
drawing concern to is the more recent increase, and that is about
half this figure. About 350,000 people. We are talking about the
school population of 9 million, so 3% to 4% additional figures, which
is not enormous. And the other aspect of this is what is the
benefit? These children, their parents work here and pay taxes, so
it is not a 0-sum game. So in the totality, it is not
necessarily proving the case that there is an increased burden on the
state, but of course at individual levels like Lucy's case, it doesn't
necessarily feel good. It does get difficult if the schools can contain
the pupils, but I don't really know. You've done the numbers. Maybe we
can get Tom's children to talk about how they feel!
Let's talk -- move onto the front page of the Sunday Times, Prince
Harry gets no satisfaction "At home on my..." And I have been told by
the BBC I cannot say what he is sitting on!
I was more interested in his comments about over say.
We've had a ding dong about this because part of me feels kind of"
tough". A member of the Royal family, it
kind of goes with the territory. I'm not sure, I can understand it feels
horrible, but we've almost got to a stage where privacy is not about our
journalists invading privacy, everybody has a phone, takes
pictures of people... You know, if you are a member of the Royal family
and there is a lot of stuff that goes with that, good and bad, you
have to suck it up a bit or a and live somewhere very, very quiet.
Everybody is invading people's privacy all the time, not just his
privacy, and people are constantly sending tweets, saying, I saw him
doing this... And he is doing a lot of good work, so yeah, keep your
shirt on. That's a better headline!
One has a lot of sympathy, it is human rights, flavour of the week,
but we are entitled to privacy. Given his mother's death, his
background, we feel sympathy. But there is a line, as he says, but
that line is difficult -- different for a public citizen who is not
seeking public office or celebrity. If you are a member of the Royal
family, you are in public office but you are actually in public office
where people cannot get rid of you. So your character is actually much
more important than that of a private individual next door. I
suspect that if people sat down and talked about -- thought about this
objectively, and decided where the line was, it might not be where he
wants it to be. I think a lot of people would say, I
think he is right, and still by the newspapers anyway.
Let's end with... We were debating before we went on air. My secret
heartache, by the Masterchef winner. I've never seen Masterchef, I'm a
bloke! It's presented by two blokes. I am a
Masterchef fan, and this really, really is a must amazing story.
I cried when I watched it. This is the winner, absolutely against the
odds winner. She has four children, she stays at home, and she cooks
gluten-free food which I cook occasionally, it is very, very
difficult to make taste gorgeous. But on top of all that, she has had
a very serious battle with cancer for over a decade and three years
ago nearly died. And she didn't tell the judges that, John and Gregg,
because she wanted to be judged on the food that she produced. And she
beat two trendy looking boys with beards, who could also beautiful...
Tom, help me out here! I haven't seen it either.
We did have a TV in the kitchen, which is where I am. I'm not an
armchair chef. It's terrible. Well, I think it's an
amazing story and good luck to her. Indeed. Thank you both very much.
Just a reminder, we take a look at tomorrow's front pages every
evening at 10:30 and 11:30 here on BBC News.
Time for a look at the weather, with Peter Gibbs.
We are spreading the warm weather a little