28/05/2017 The Papers


28/05/2017

A lively, informed and in-depth conversation about the Sunday papers.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 28/05/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Now on BBC News, here's Julian with The Papers.

:00:00.:00:14.

at what the papers are saying this Sunday morning.

:00:15.:00:18.

With me are journalist and broadcaster Shyama Perera

:00:19.:00:21.

and the political editor for the Sun, Dave Wooding.

:00:22.:00:26.

This morning's front pages, starting with the Observer.

:00:27.:00:30.

It leads with expert calls for the Government to keep

:00:31.:00:33.

co-operating with the EU on security and intelligence after Brexit.

:00:34.:00:38.

The Sunday Express talked to Theresa May about her meeting

:00:39.:00:41.

with some of the victims of the Manchester attack

:00:42.:00:46.

Like many Sunday papers, the Mail on Sunday

:00:47.:00:49.

carries a CCTV image showing the Manchester bomber, Salman Abedi,

:00:50.:00:53.

The UK's Security Minister has told the Sunday Telegraph

:00:54.:00:59.

that social-media firms are not doing enough to tackle extremism.

:01:00.:01:01.

And the Sunday Times talks about the Conservative Party

:01:02.:01:03.

after Labour narrows the gap in the polls to the single figures.

:01:04.:01:12.

We will dip into some of those in the neck 15 minutes or so, the Mail

:01:13.:01:19.

on Sunday, Shyama, this is a chilling image of Salman Abedi.

:01:20.:01:23.

Well, it is and it isn't, Julian, and what is remarkable about these

:01:24.:01:27.

images is abnormal this young man looks. I wouldn't look at him once,

:01:28.:01:35.

let alone twice. -- is how normal this young man looks. I just wonder

:01:36.:01:41.

about using terms like the face of evil, the action was evil - when you

:01:42.:01:46.

use terms like that, people start looking for people who look evil,

:01:47.:01:51.

and the whole point about terrorist is that they look like you and me.

:01:52.:01:57.

We need to change the language so we can all start understanding what we

:01:58.:02:00.

should be looking for, rather than constantly looking for someone who

:02:01.:02:03.

looks like they are up to no good, because that is not how they look. I

:02:04.:02:10.

suppose I use the word chilling because we know what is going to

:02:11.:02:13.

happen with the benefit of hindsight. It is a striking picture,

:02:14.:02:23.

and like Shyama says, the normal sign of him, the body warmer, the

:02:24.:02:29.

baseball cap, Nike trainers which I gather sell for about ?300, that

:02:30.:02:35.

sort of thing. You can just say, over to the right of this picture,

:02:36.:02:40.

the only visible sign of the atrocity he was about to commit if

:02:41.:02:45.

the strap from the rucksack which contained, as we now know, the nuts

:02:46.:02:55.

and bolts. Police releasing the image because they want to get more

:02:56.:03:00.

information about what he was doing so they can find out more about

:03:01.:03:05.

others who may have been involved. Thank goodness for CCTV, some of the

:03:06.:03:09.

goodness it does in enabling them to piece together these events. The

:03:10.:03:14.

Sunday Telegraph, some quite strong language from the security minister.

:03:15.:03:20.

Yes, there have been lots of different aspects to the terror

:03:21.:03:23.

attack, people looking at things we can do to stop radicalisation, to

:03:24.:03:29.

track down potential killers, and basically to nip in the bud the root

:03:30.:03:37.

causes of radical extremism. The security minister, Ben Wallace,

:03:38.:03:42.

apologies, having a right go at the media firms, the likes of... He

:03:43.:03:47.

doesn't name them, but Facebook and Twitter, social media giants, saying

:03:48.:03:51.

they are duplicitous, saying that, you know, videos are radicalising

:03:52.:03:56.

writ in's youth, they are doing nothing to take these down. He uses

:03:57.:04:03.

phrases such as these companies flogging details about our lives to

:04:04.:04:07.

commercial companies, but they won't do anything about stopping these

:04:08.:04:11.

videos going up which are spreading hate and extremism. It is pretty

:04:12.:04:17.

strong language. I'm not sure what he's saying that underpins his

:04:18.:04:20.

allegations, because obviously things have to be posted before they

:04:21.:04:24.

can be removed, and as I understand it, a lot of these companies,

:04:25.:04:28.

including Facebook, have taken on greater numbers of staff to try and

:04:29.:04:32.

deal with it, but it is still humans who make those judgment goals, and

:04:33.:04:39.

therefore there is always going to be a slight delay. I would add to

:04:40.:04:42.

this and say, not only are the terrorist groups on social media,

:04:43.:04:46.

but we need, all of us, to find a way of toning down language and

:04:47.:04:51.

expressions of loathing and hatred on all forms of online discussion,

:04:52.:04:57.

including, in my opinion, you know, the Daily Mail comments, the

:04:58.:05:01.

Guardian comments. You look at those, sexist, violent, deeply

:05:02.:05:05.

unpleasant, and they may not be jihadi, but it is all part of a

:05:06.:05:11.

movement, it seems to me, that is predominantly male, predominantly

:05:12.:05:16.

aggressive, predominantly hostile, particularly actually, towards

:05:17.:05:20.

women, and you know, all of that underpins jihadism. Obviously, these

:05:21.:05:25.

are different, led by an ideology, but what I am saying is that hatred

:05:26.:05:28.

breeds hatred, and what we should all be doing is finding ways, a

:05:29.:05:32.

solution to minimise the expressions of hatred. The Observer front page,

:05:33.:05:41.

who wants to kick this off? Future relationships with the European

:05:42.:05:46.

Union, with particular reference to security once the Brexit stealers

:05:47.:05:50.

done. We have heard various explanations for terrorism, not

:05:51.:05:53.

excuses, but different things behind it, people have discussed cuts in

:05:54.:05:58.

policing, which Amber Rudd, the Home Secretary, has said is not an issue.

:05:59.:06:02.

Jeremy Corbyn as even discussed the foreign policy of Britain, again,

:06:03.:06:08.

challenged. What the Observer seems to be pointing to is Brexit,

:06:09.:06:12.

surprising that nobody has blamed Brexit, it gets blamed for

:06:13.:06:15.

everything else, but Dominic Grieve, the Tory chairman of the Commons

:06:16.:06:20.

intelligence and security committee, the former Chief Constable of

:06:21.:06:25.

Northern Ireland police service, Sir Hugh Orde, and the head of Europol

:06:26.:06:29.

have all said that we need to be within the EU to combat terrorism.

:06:30.:06:33.

Part of the problem of being members of Europol and the criminal

:06:34.:06:38.

intelligence agency across Europe is that you have to accept the

:06:39.:06:40.

jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice, and that is one of the

:06:41.:06:44.

three things that Britain is going to pull out of. Which could be part

:06:45.:06:50.

of the final deal, of course. For me, it makes me worried as a punter,

:06:51.:06:54.

because I think, do I trust any of the parties that are currently

:06:55.:06:59.

begging for my vote to be able to come up with such a sophisticated

:07:00.:07:02.

and well structured strategy that they can pull all this off while

:07:03.:07:07.

simultaneously removing us from the EU? I just can't see it. Staying

:07:08.:07:13.

with election matters, Shyama, the front of the Sunday Times, taking us

:07:14.:07:18.

back to the election campaign to an extent, with particular reference to

:07:19.:07:20.

the Conservative campaign, which they aren't bearing to never story

:07:21.:07:25.

is based on an opinion poll. I think they should be nervous, my straw

:07:26.:07:32.

polls locally in the Borough of Brent pointing to huge changes among

:07:33.:07:37.

people, myself included! We are a marginal constituency, hamsters and

:07:38.:07:44.

Kilburn, we hang by 1200 votes. You are doing the BBC thing of offering

:07:45.:07:49.

caution! Of course! I say this only slightly playfully, because I have

:07:50.:07:54.

talked to a cross-section of people, I think they are right to be

:07:55.:07:59.

nervous. I don't know of Lynton Crosby can turn things around in two

:08:00.:08:02.

or three weeks. Having said that, who would have said even a week ago

:08:03.:08:06.

that the Tories would suddenly lose that extraordinary leader that they

:08:07.:08:13.

had? Anything is possible, suddenly the election has become exciting. If

:08:14.:08:17.

there is a relaunch, what would it look like? Well, I suspect that

:08:18.:08:22.

similar things that are being spoken about so far are not having any

:08:23.:08:27.

cut-through. Attacking Jeremy Corbyn on the IRA links is not working, we

:08:28.:08:35.

have a poll in the Sun on Sunday showing that most people are not

:08:36.:08:39.

bothered by it, people think he is a statesman or a dangerous man. So I

:08:40.:08:44.

think the Conservatives will move on to talking about where they poll

:08:45.:08:49.

backs, Brexit, 70% of people put that as their top issue. I think, as

:08:50.:08:59.

we move into the final stages, 11 days today until polling day, it

:09:00.:09:04.

will be Brexit versus NHS, that is my own feeling on it, and it says

:09:05.:09:08.

here, after the terrorism of the last week, there has been such a big

:09:09.:09:13.

paws, it is almost like the whole campaign is starting all over again.

:09:14.:09:18.

That was bound to lead all the parties to reflect on security

:09:19.:09:22.

matters for a while, wasn't it? But inevitably, and some point, they

:09:23.:09:26.

will go back to where they were. Absolutely, as per the story in the

:09:27.:09:31.

Observer, they will have to rethink how they are positing Brexit in the

:09:32.:09:34.

next couple of weeks, because that is vital to everything, including

:09:35.:09:39.

the NHS. The Sunday Mirror reports on the BA chaos, an extraordinary

:09:40.:09:50.

image of hundreds of suitcases. I was reflecting this morning, when we

:09:51.:09:52.

first in the newspaper industry moved over to computers, those of us

:09:53.:09:57.

who moved from typewriters on Friday and started on a computer on Monday

:09:58.:10:01.

morning, we were a little bit nervous and kept everything backed

:10:02.:10:05.

up, so we printed things out, typed them up, printed them... Some of us

:10:06.:10:13.

still do! As we got more used to computers, they have taken over our

:10:14.:10:15.

lives, and we don't have any back-up now. As we have seen, while they are

:10:16.:10:21.

wonderful and speed things up, when they go wrong, this is what happens.

:10:22.:10:25.

Of course, I wonder if BA have a way of printing out the old tickets!

:10:26.:10:30.

Even if they have, they don't know where the planes are, because it has

:10:31.:10:34.

also affected their call centres, all their information systems. I

:10:35.:10:40.

think, you know, coming two weeks after the NHS hacked, it is not a

:10:41.:10:45.

hack, just a breakdown, but what we are starting to see, actually, is

:10:46.:10:50.

how automation and technical failure can affect our well-being. I have to

:10:51.:10:56.

say, I am stocked up on bottles of water and ours theirs in case the

:10:57.:10:59.

National Grid goes down! It just seems to me that there is a climate

:11:00.:11:10.

of holes in people's systems. It does mean that the war on cyber

:11:11.:11:14.

security is very important, this is just a small element of the sort of

:11:15.:11:18.

thing that could happen. And the wider implications are, as the

:11:19.:11:23.

Mirror says, there will be a huge compensation bill, with people

:11:24.:11:25.

claiming presumably not just for the loss of that particular flight, but

:11:26.:11:30.

the knock-on effects, holidays that may have been lost, as you say,

:11:31.:11:34.

hotels overnight, and there is a reputation issue as well.

:11:35.:11:40.

Absolutely. People who have flown... I had a colleague who was flying to

:11:41.:11:45.

a wedding yesterday evening, and he booked on a budget airline which was

:11:46.:11:47.

cheaper than British Airways, and he was saying, thank goodness I booked

:11:48.:11:51.

with a cheaper airline. It just goes to show, you know, you can pay more

:11:52.:11:58.

and get less. It is because there is a residual problem today, and that

:11:59.:12:02.

is going to carry on for a couple of weeks. If it could have been put

:12:03.:12:05.

right within 24 hours, we might have been able to look past it, but it

:12:06.:12:10.

will be ruining after right across the week, and so this story will run

:12:11.:12:14.

and run, and that is where the real damage will be done. A one off, we

:12:15.:12:23.

could forgive or overlooked. We have got and a half left, so I am turning

:12:24.:12:26.

slightly nervously to page 21 of the Mail on Sunday, who wants to kick

:12:27.:12:29.

off what people should wear when reading the news on BBC?! I think

:12:30.:12:35.

you are safe, Julian, you are not wearing any M, or if you are, it

:12:36.:12:39.

is not immediately apparent! According to the Mail on Sunday, BBC

:12:40.:12:44.

presenters like that have been told not to wear M type clothing, and

:12:45.:12:50.

to wear block colours, to generally look tidy. And you pointed at me! I

:12:51.:12:59.

said your suit was beautiful! It says no trainers or leather or mock

:13:00.:13:06.

leather, no genes or shorts. We can't see and the table, Julian, but

:13:07.:13:11.

I can assure the view is that you are not wearing shorts! In the old

:13:12.:13:14.

days, I can remember doing the night-time newspaper review in the

:13:15.:13:19.

old building... Trade secrets coming out now! I can remember Peter Dobbie

:13:20.:13:25.

looking so fantastic, and I looked underneath the desk, and he was in a

:13:26.:13:29.

filthy pair of jeans and scuffed trainers, and I couldn't believe it!

:13:30.:13:33.

Peter Dobbie is not available for comment, I should point out! Those

:13:34.:13:37.

are the days when we never had to stand up. Whereas now they are

:13:38.:13:41.

swinging around and looking at you from all angles. The Prime Minister

:13:42.:13:48.

will not be here in a ?900 trousers! I suppose we should not distract, is

:13:49.:13:54.

that the point? Yes, and I agree what they say about hair, long hair

:13:55.:13:58.

is distracting, it should be tied back. You know, bright ties can be

:13:59.:14:06.

distracting, we want a newsreader to almost be... Careful! You are both

:14:07.:14:11.

things, Julian, highly sophisticated and trustworthy! But really you want

:14:12.:14:14.

to hear their voice, you don't want to be looking at them and

:14:15.:14:20.

thinking... Look, he is glowing! You can both come back again! When I

:14:21.:14:24.

first did TV, somebody said, don't worry what you say, they will just

:14:25.:14:29.

trying to hold my stomached in, and trying to hold my stomached in, and

:14:30.:14:36.

it paid working! On that uplifting sartorial note, thank you to Shyama

:14:37.:14:38.

and David. Just a reminder, we take a look

:14:39.:14:39.

at tomorrow's front pages every It's been a fairly quiet

:14:40.:14:42.

weather morning across the UK. However, we are

:14:43.:14:53.

expecting some changes. Now, there will be some dry weather

:14:54.:14:56.

and some sunshine for most of us. However, storms are just waiting

:14:57.:14:59.

in the wings to head our way, and this is one part of the UK

:15:00.:15:02.

that will see some changes

:15:03.:15:06.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS