05/06/2017 The Papers


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working west to east across the country, another breezy day and that


makes way for a fairly unsettled week ahead. Bye for now.


We'll be taking a look at tomorrow morning's papers in a moment -


Police have named two of the three men responsible


They're Khuram Butt and Rachid Redouane.


Khuram Butt was 27, a British citizen, and born in Pakistan,


who used to work on the London Underground.


He was known to the security services but police say there was no


A vigil has been held in central London to commemorate the seven


people who died, and 48 others injured in Saturday's London Bridge


18 people remain in a critical condition.


The first victim to be named is 30-year-old


The sister of James McMullan says she believes her brother is also


With me are Laura Perrins, Co-Editor of the website


The Conservative Woman and Torcuil Crichton,


the political editor of The Daily Record.


'The i' leads its coverage with the conciliatory words


by a relative of one of the victims, in Saturday's attack at London


The Metro calls a Romanian baker a 'true Brit',


after he squared up and confronted the attackers.


The Sun asks why the authorities didn't stop the attacker


Khuram Butt, after he appeared on a TV documentary


The Guardian reports on the Metropolitan Police's


plans to reform the national counter-terrorism strategy.


While the Times says one of the attackers was known


to the authorities as having links to the 7/7 suspects.


The Daily Telegraph leads with Khuram Butt's openness


about his extremist views, before carrying out


The Daily Mirror asks how did Butt slip through the security net,


despite being known to the authorities.


And the Mail says MI5 and Scotland Yard investigated


Khuram Butt two years ago, then let him go.


Lots of questions indeed concerning Khuram Butt. Seemed to be on the


radar of the authorities. "Brazen Jihad is that it was free to parade


his extremism on TV. " He appeared in a Channel 4 documentary on


extremism. Overall, a bad night for the security services, MI5 and


Scotland Yard. It is actually beyond parody in that Khuram Butt, first of


all, a Pakistani born and then came to Britain with his parents, Britain


granted them refugee status, just like the parents of the killer from


the Manchester attack. Khuram Butt in the background of the Channel 4


documentary called The Jihadis Next Door. He was free to carry out the


attack. Even worse but the security services, he did fall under


investigation but was deemed not to be a threat of the investigation was


pulled back. Also, within the story in the Telegraph, the third


individual who was not named, was also named to the security services.


The question now will be, is there a gap in the legislation, do the


security services need more power to take somebody like Khuram Butt on,


if he isn't explicitly planning an attack but looks like a real risk to


safety of the public? What else can be done in terms of legislation? It


may be that there is nothing that can be done but there is a question


that needs to be looked at. The bottom line is, MI5, the security


agencies, they have a lot of people to look out. -- to look at. 3000, it


may be. That still leaves a lot of other people who need to be looked


at as well. They took the decision that this man was not the kind of


serious threat that needed 24-hour surveillance. Because the killers


have been named, or two of the three of them have been named, across all


the papers today. No surprise he wasn't a clean skin, he was on the


radar, off the radar, back on the radar. He was on the Channel 4


documentary The Jihadis Next Door. He wasn't considered a risk.


Britain's most senior antiterrorism officer, defending his decision,


saying there was nothing that would suggest that a decision had been


made. They knew about this guy but prioritised him into the lower


echelons of their investigators work. Every day, they have to make


these calls on who to follow, who to monitor, who to directly approach,


echoes of -- because the bad guys know that a good guys are looking at


them. They can't get at them all. The focus now does turn on why was


he missed, why do you keep missing him. You can't legislate people


thinking about people planning an act of terrorism. In part of the


documentary, we are going to the Daily Mirror... How the hell did he


slipped through? The London Bridge terrorist. In a few words, say what


everybody is thinking. How the hell did he get through. He is literally


on TV advertising the fact that he is a jihadi. He is unfurling an ice


is flat. It seems astonishing that he would stay either below the radar


for this long. -- Isis flag. This is not somebody who is just outside the


main. OK, he is unfurling a Isis flag. I was told by a


counterterrorism experts that it takes 20 people 24 hours a day to


watch somebody. What are you going to do? I think unfurling a Isis flag


could amount to infighting hatred. You can be pulled up for a tweet


these days. The Met Will now put people under investigation. Yet you


can go on national TV, it seems, and unfurl the Isis flag and you won't


even be pulled in for questioning. He was obviously pulled in


questioning and was spoken to bite if the guy unfurls our flag in the


hope that he will be arrested... I'm not sure if it is a proper Isis


flag. The headline says unfurling a Isis fla on Channel 4 from The


Jihadis Next Door. I don't think there is any question in relation to


the fact this ... He must have said something that could have amounted


to, an offence. It would be a low level a fence, no doubt about that.


Which means he probably wouldn't have been held for that long --


offence. The Times goes into this in-depth as


to whether or not there was a greater network. This is the issue.


Initially it may seem minor, you know, he is not that serious. If you


probe deeply enough it may be that there is a more serious network


behind him. But it is speculative. Yes, it is speculative and takes


time and resources. Meanwhile you have 3000 people who are serious


about potentially doing something. This brings up, again, talk of


control orders. How do you monitor someone when you do not have


evidence, to put them on a court of law? It is two things. Guys out


there on and off the radar, you cannot monitor them all at the same


time and, B, it shows us the scale of the problem and the changes since


March 22 when we thought that guy on Westminster and we saw someone


gunned down, the mistake then was to think that that was it, that that


was the big attack that London had been waiting for. It was not. It was


the first act in this three act tragedy, coming up to the general


election on Thursday. Let's just bring up the Daily Mail. We had him


and let him go... If there was a change and it was anticipated, this


change in activity, five foiled activities and three successful, why


are we having an election in the middle of all of this?! The campaign


was suspended for a day yesterday... But the decision to stage an


election must of been taken against the background of this increased


activity because it must have been on the radar. I heard and imams


speak today talking about the fact that you always get a spike in


attacks during Ramadan. Ramanathan is the holy month. It is a


particularly special month for anyone who apparently wants to


perform jihad. There was a call from Isis to do that. That is another


interesting question. Britain faces different level of terror threat


police warn. This brings us, starting to bring us onto the


political dimension of all of this. Of course, this plays into the


election campaign. And, whether or not, the police, that there are


enough of them, festival and whether Conservative cuts have contributed


to a situation, a different situation on the ground. And, also,


whether or not police and security services and need more powers. The


duelling battle between those two ideas. It is beginning to sink in


now that this is a real and significant, serious threat in


Britain and Scotland Yard's Assistant Commissioner is saying the


changes may be necessary to cover one, the police, too, MI5 and three,


and communities, technology companies, the law, and other


areas... On the other -- one hand I have great sympathy but on the other


I think we should always examine closely when somebody asks for, when


is police and security ask for yet more power. What I would want to


know is what is the gap? What prevented them from pursuing Khuram


Butt. He was known. Stop them? What was in the decision-making process


that said we would downgrade him. Is it having lots of extra powers or


more police officers on the street, would that have changed that


decision? Perhaps. I certainly think there should be more police on, you


know, on the beat. Not behind their desks. Labour tried to make a lot


about these 20,000 cuts. It may be relevant but if those police


officers simply put behind a desk as opposed to within the community they


serve, I doubt it would make much of a difference. You have encapsulated


what the debate has been all day today between conservative and


labour and what it would be if the next 50 odd hours until the polls


open on Thursday morning. We have Tuesday and Wednesday left and


security and who keeps us save, what the gaps are and where they are,


whether there are enough leaves and whether they should be harmed, these


are the questions that will play out over the next two days in the


election campaign. The front page of the Times, another attacker linked


to the 77 bombing attack. One of the gaps could be simply being on the


end of a phone on the anti-terrorist Hotline and taking the call and


noting down the details. Apparently two calls were made about this man


over the last few years by members of his own community. This story is


quite complex and in terms it is saying that there could be a much


wider link and he was linked to a greater terrorist network. In


particular he was a contact of the eldest of the four suicide bombers


on 77. Bling seems to be through a gym in East London where Khuram Butt


actually work. It is at issue, if you downgrade an investigation, what


you miss behind the scenes? It may be that there are only a few steps


to go before you up a wider network. Again, it is easier to speculate


than actually be there but this is always the problem between resources


and whether you have 20,000 suspects, how far can East


investigation go? It is a real problem now and it may be that


resources will have to change. The Times does a good treatment of what


we know about the suspect all, the killers, and joining these dots


through an East London gym, a trainer there who was linked to hate


preacher who supplied the 77 killers. So directly between Khuram


Butt and one of the four 7/7 bombers. They have balance that with


pictures of one of the missing victims and that two killers


themselves. We touched on the political dimension of all that. I


would like to say that the Times have done our story on James


McMullan. This is a man who apparently, I think, a body has been


found and his credit card has been found. But as yet there has not been


a formal identification. Yes. It is his sister who gave a statement,


Melissa McGowan. -- McMullan. It is horrific to the family but they are


sure that their brother has died. The front page of the Daily Express


talking about Theresa May asking to be trusted to keep them all say. We


know where the Daily Express is coming from. She had trouble today


is selling an outline, however. I went at a press conference. 21


questions, no answers. You know? She was challenged six times directly on


whether she regretted or whether she should have got police numbers and


each time she dodged and avoided comment she went to a 2015 Timeline


when the Conservative government said they would increase numbers.


But there were a good five years before then where police numbers


were down. She is not out of the woods on this, far from it. At the


same time, on the front page of the Guardian, me unpatriotic? Complete


nonsense says Jeremy Corbyn. Attacks on him because of comments that he


made about anti- terror legislation in the past. It is bad news to


Jeremy Corbyn if he has to actually have an interview to confirm that he


is patriotic. And does not want... You would expect Labour in the last


72 hours of the campaign for the Conservatives to focus on Jeremy


Corbyn and his perceived lack of... There should not be a question


marked that the proposed leader of the UK should be unpatriotic but


here we are debating map. In fairness to Jeremy Corbyn, many


people did oppose certain aspects of the previous terror legislation. But


what concerns me, leaving Jeremy Corbyn aside, in particular, is John


McDonald who I think we has previously signed a letter calling


for MI5 and armed police to be disbanded. There is one thing not


have enough resources, another thing to completely disband MI5 and


someone said that a victory in the British state as a victory for


assault. Those kind... We will have to ended there, I am sorry. I know


you could go on for much longer. Thank you. Don't forget you can see


all the front pages of the papers online on the BBC News website. You


can also watch it later on the BBC I play. Thank you again to both of you


for joining us.


No need to wait until tomorrow morning to see what's in the papers - tune in for a lively and informed conversation about the next day's headlines.

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