Episode 6 The Phone Hacking Inquiry

standards. Comments from the former 'News of the World' editor Piers

Morgan.. I did not hear her say "Phone hacking". The truth is it

impossible the fight. I would say it is unlikely he did not know it

The British newspaper editor who made it big on US television, Piers

Morgan was the famous face among this week's witnesses. The tabloid

careers however do not all need to. Take the man on the right here for

instance. A showbiz reporter once just like Piers Morgan but after he

left the 'News of the World' he said this. It was endemic. It

happened. When you say "It was endemic" phone hacking and the use

of illegal practices to secure stories, that was endemic, is that

what you are saying? Yes. He was noticed not at the start but a

whistleblower, one who used alcohol as a touch as the phone hacking

story gathered pace. He was found dead at his flat in July. Alcohol-

related liver disease was to blame so on day 19 it was his brother

Sarah Stewart who spoke on his behalf. Giving his evidence off

camera he said hacking as not limited to a single paper. I take

on board what you about the names but I want to make it very clear

that this allegedly practice not only went on at the 'News of the

World' but went on at the Sun. I want to make it very clear this was

a practice that was taken to the 'News of the World'. Stuart's anger

at those who had managed his from near was obvious. I found it very,

very difficult today not to name names but the seniors that were

involved in the practices that went on know that they are involved and

they know the wrong that has been done. The part of his time at 'News

of the World' the editor was this man Andy Coulson. Later head of

communications for David Cameron, a former editor who has always denied

know binge hacking. Asked about the David Cameron connection a

journalist not the 'Independent on Sunday' said he had considered had

Hore had been politically motivated. One barrister David Barr asked

exactly what Hoare knew. Did hotel you he had hacked phones while

working for the 'News of the World' Yes, he did. Did you get the

impression I was a one-off or was it something he had done numerous

times? Numerous times. Did hotel you that anybody else had hacked

mobile phones while they were working for the news of the World?

Yes. He said there was more to this hacking. There was a trade in news

lists, records of stories on which papers were working. For a rival

newspaper to get hold of your news list is a good thing to have. Um,

and I'm told, Shaun told me they would get �400 in cash and a person

on another paper was paid �200 to hand over this news list. And �100

would go to Shaun and �100 would go to the other executive. This sports

reporter once prospered on the paper. He tells the inquiry about

getting a tip a football manager was unwell. Failing to confirm the

story then getting a call to the sports editor. He said "You are

right the story is true I have his medical records with me at the

moment". And having been on the daily star when none of that

happened I was amazed that it seemed that easy to obtain

someone's medical records and he said "Is is nothing liver

threatening but I know exactly what it is, what procedure he has had"

and I did ask how was it obtained and he said through a bragging

technique. I was told sometimes you would get a situation where if an

investigator sent a fax to a GP or hospital saying "I'm a specialists,

I need these details" it was incredible how many times that

would get sent straight back relation was his bosses were to

break town. Editors would live a very cose the ed life. Some editors

would become editors having been journalists and favoured industry

mefpbl it was a classic clicheed example of the power corrupting.

They suddenly walk into a life of chauffer-driven cars and very high

salaries and I think some of them lost touch with reality.

believed he had incurred the wralt of Andy Coulson and soon even a

minor complaint became a serious issue. The paper made it into some

enormous crime and the disciplinary machinery went into action once

again. I knew exactly what had all meant, they were just trying find

ways to get rid of me. He as asked about a former News International

executive who had said there was a feeding of family compassion at the

company. It is almost laughable he would even suggest something lying

that. It is a business. These people went to jail - something

like that. For something they had done and to give this I will

presentation of this lovely family atmosphere - I know when I tried to

get Shaun Hoare to come forward and talk he felt the same as well, that

it just was not fair that journalists on news were getting

all the blame for everything that had gone on because of the culture

in that newsroom. I mean, you know, my tribunal found it was a culture

of bullying, I would say it is a culture of lying a lot of the time.

That tribunal won this man �800,000 but he never got another reporting

job. He said no-one had wanted to employ journalists who took on

their boss and won. The man who represented him at the tribunal and

suggested disciplinary procedures at the 'News of the World' were

used as a tool forgetting rid of unwanted staff. The unique think

about the 'News of the World' was they were usually phoney complaints

and the individual quickly got the message that they wanted him out.

That was the point. What has happened with Matt Driscoll he was

much more determined that. He was not willing to be fobbed off. When

Driscoll went off sick with severe depression. They subjected him to

the most amazingly unpleasant behaviour, hassling him with phone

calls, wanting to send a nurse to his home. This was not just about

one member of staff, he said, or one paper. One company fairly

recently, one of our members went to management to complain of

bullying and they instantly said to him "You had better leave" and that

is what happened, he left. A severance package was again

rapinged and the person is still there. Nothing has within done

about it. Life after tabloids went something better for Sharon

Marshall who got work as a television soap pundit after being

told to confront a pregnant celebrity with an untrue allegation

this the celebrity's partner was having an affair. In my resignation

letter which I put on his desk I said I was leaving because I had

been asked to beach the PCC code and the moral code and therefore I

was refusing to do it and that was the reason for my resignation. I

just did not want to work there any more. I, um, I guess I just fell

out of love with the hole industry. I just said "No I just do not want

to do this". Having walked away from tabloid life she wrote a book

about it complete with the claim it was a true story. She said in her

witness statement her book was not a precise and accurate account of

what exactly happened but that true story claim caused her no end of

trouble. I was writing what somebody in a pub told me I did not

get hard evidence for because I was not writing the witness statement.

Of course you were not writing a witness statement. I understand

that and you have said that now to or three times so you do not have

to repeat it. But what you are asserting in this forward is these

stories all happened, these very bad things were done. It is not

unreal is stick for me to ask had you were telling the truth in those

words. Um, this is what people told me. So I turned it into a yarn but

I did not go through full legal checks and everything, I just

simply said "Tell me a legend and I will put it in the book" so yes

this is true what a journalist has told me. It is either accurate with

all our experience of working in the business or it is not accurate.

It has a bit of topspin. I have occasionally heightened reality to

create the good story. What do you mean by the word "Topspin"?

sorry, I just mean... Lies?. Colour, I would say. When Sharon Marshall's

book was placed under scrutiny she had a fairly simple defence - I was

not entirely true, she said S Piers Morgan, the former editor of the

'News of the World' and of the 'Daily Mirror' was a much bigger

player but faced a similar level of examination of interview assist

given, an article he had written and crucially his published diaries.

I'm going to ask you now another general question about the first

two volumes of your diaries. The first volume is called the Insider,

the second volume "Don't You Know Who I Am?". How accurate and

reliable are these documents? Um, well, that is a moot point. They

are my record of 10 years of editing newspapers which were

compiled nots a contemporaneous diary let's say in the introduction

but from a collection of notes, memos, emails, stuff like that and

stuff I just checked on a weekly basis. And I constructed the book

in diary form as best my memory served it, but is it a record of

100% historical import? I would say no. But is it your best

recollection at all material times? Yes. When Morgan tried to answer

back he was silenced. Mr Morgan, I would be very great fill if you

would answer Mr Jayakody's questions rather enter into a

debate with him, I'm sure we would get on much more quickly. He was

read an interview in which he said he sympathise would the news of the

world reporter Clive Goodman, something Morgan said phone hacking

had been going on at almost every paper in Fleet Street for years.

That was the rumour mirblgs I as exploding - I have not been there

for three years but everybody you talked to said he was being made a

scapegoat, this was a widely prevalent thing. I was not aware it

was widely prevalent in any specific form. I was hearing these

rumours like anybody else. Is this a practice if we may add a third

newspaper to the mix, was taking place in the Daily Mirror? I do not

believe so, no. You do not believe so or you are sure? I don't believe

so to the best of my recollection, toy not believe so. And he was

asked about this 2009 exchange? "What about this nice middle-class

boy would who have the deal with people who raked bins for a leafing,

people who take secret photographs and do all that nasty den in the

gutter stuff? How do you feel about that? A lot of this was done by

third parties rather the staff them. That is not to defend it because

you were running results of their work. I try to answer the question

but she cuts me off because I know where she is going. She is talking

about what I guess would be described as the dark dance of

newspaper investigations, had that is the thin man, paparazzi

photography, and I was responding in general terms. I think if you

hear the tape back in real-time you can see. That I did not hear her

say "Phone-tapping" and I certainly was not eluding to phone-tapping. A

message Sir Paul McCartney's former wife was at the centre of one key

exchange. In 2006 she is Morgan who admitted to hearing message. Have

you listened to recordings of what you knee ever knew to be illegally

obtained -- knew to be illegally obtained voice mail messages?

not believe so, no. You either did or didn't, I do not think it is a

question of belief. No I did not. Sh have you list yined to

recordings of what you knew to be illegally obtained voice mail

messages? I do not believe so. I cannot discuss where I was played

that tape or who played it because to do so would be to compromise a

source and I cannot do that. not sure about that, Mr Morgan. You

can discuss in general terms where it was, can't you? Actually, no, I

can't. It was a tape of a voice mail message, wasn't it? I'm not

going to discuss where I heard it or who played it to me for the

reasons I have discussed. I do not think it is writ and in fact the

inquiry has already stated the me cow do not expect me to identify

sources -- you. Think about it this way, Mr Morgan - without

identifying your source, the only person who would lawfully be able

to listen to the message is the lady in question or somebody

authorised on her behalf. To listen to it - isn't that right?

possibly. Well? Sorry, what do you expect me to say? Another

possibility if there is one, I don't...? I mean (LAUGHTER) I can't

go in to the detaifl it without compromising source and -- details

of it without compromising source and I'm not going to do that.

I am perfectly happy to call Lady McCartney to give evidence as to

whether she authorised you to listen to her voice mail. Heather

mills herself later issued a statement saying she would be happy

to tell her side of the story and denying she had ever played Piers

Morgan any tape. Also making case against Morgan was one of the

writers of the City Slickers column who was later jailed in a share-

dealing scandal. The barrister quoted from her account of what was

going on at Piers Morgan's paper. Journalists were carrying out

repeated infringements to hack into the voice mail systems of

celebrities, their friend, publicists and public relations

executives. The frequency of them having activities gave me the

impression that phone hacking was consider add 'bog standard tool'

for gathering information. Did you see this sort of thing going on, Mr

Morgan? No. Are you sure about that? 100%. I would also pint out

that James Hipwell is a convicted criminal. Come the end Morgan was

clearly unhappy with his treatments. This has gone how I thought it

would. It becomes like a rock star having an album brought out from

his back cat loving all his worst- ever hits and I do feel still very

proud of a lot of the very good stuff that both the Mirror and the

'News of the World' did in my tenure as editor. Not only Heather

Mills but Rupert Murdoch might be called to give evidence. A source

later said there was a strong possibility he could make an

appearance at this inquiry. And even as he gave his evidence, Piers

Morgan knew that on day 21 James Hipwell would be making his

allegations in person. Allegations about an editor he said had a tight

reign over the Mirror. newspaper was edited and produced

with the - his personality. He was a very strong, um, strong-minded

individual and he had enormous charm and charisma and he was the

newspaper. The paper's showbiz reporter sat three feet from

Hipwell's desk and heard that phone hacking was a tolerated and regular

practice. It seems to be perfectly acceptable to some of the Mirror's

senior editors and I saw it on a daily basis in 1999 especially

latter half of 1999 where I was going as far as to say it happened

every day and that it apparent that a great number of the Mirror's show

business stories would come from that source. Did you ever see or

hear phone hacking taking place or being discussed in front of Mr

Morgan? No I did not. Is there anything which makes you think that

Mr Morgan did or did not know that the practice was taking place?

I mean I discussed what kind of an editor he was. And I, you know,

this is - I can't approve that he - who knew what at what time but

looking at his style of editorship I would say it was very unlikely he

did not know it was going on because I accept he was not - there

was not very much he did not know about. In his witness statement,

Piers Morgan described the comments as the unsubstantiated allegations

of a liar and convicted criminal, and the Mirror's lawyer had this to

say about Hipwell. He is on his own account an acknowledged liar.

three reporters who worked on the daily express coverage of the

disappearance of Madeleine McCann. The Star paid half a million pounds

TD campaign the find Madeleine and printed apologies about a libel

account of their coverage the papers had wrongly claimed the

McCanns caused then covered up their daughter's death. One

reporter explained the impact of the fact that police could not

legally tell journalists about ever anything about the investigation.

Then you tell us in the final sentence of paragraph 4 quite

frankly this was a ludicrous state of affairs which made covering the

story near impossible. That is correct. Did you mean that - by

that getting to the truth of the matter or did you mean by that - or

what did you mean by that? Getting to the truth, yes, as if you had

been transported like Dr who into some nightmare or something where

the truth is impossible the find. But despite all that he accurately

reported what the police thought at the time, something the victim's

barrister told the judge he did not accept. You heard him say more once

now this the police files have revealed that the articles he was

writing were truthful and accurate and I would like to pick him up on

that comment and take him through one or to of the articles to

demonstrate how that is simply incorrect. Another express reporter

on that story explained that its journalists in Portugal simply had

to file copy. It would be quite a brave reporter to call the desk and

say "I'm not really sure about this, I'm not going to send anything back

today". But by now it was pretty clear what the Lord Justice thought

of the stories they were sending back. These were clearly very

fragile stories in the sense that it was all, um, I use the phrase

tittle-tattle but information coming from somebody who as getting

information from somebody else who was not supposed to be saying

anything anyway. In six weeks this inquiry has put the matter based on