Episode 23 The Phone Hacking Inquiry

Secretary Jeremy Hunt to defend his handling of News Corporation's bid

I had heard directly and indirectly from colleagues that there had been

I decided that it would not be A boyish new leader, an image

carefully nurtured. A prime minister before long whose media

handling was dubbed spin and who spent a decade in Downing Street.

An essential witness then for an inquiry examining the relationship

between the press and politicians. And on day 79, one who started with

an admission regarding politicians' You feel this pretty intense power

and the need to try and deal with that. I'm just being open about

that. And open about the fact that frankly I decided as a political

leader, and this was a strategic decision, that I was going to

manage that and not confront it. course Tony Blair accepted MPs

courted the media. He certainly did, not least when he famously flew

halfway around the world to talk to Rupert Murdoch's executives just a

year into his leadership of the Labour Party. Political leaders

like myself have to be in a position where you're managing

these major forces within the media, because if you fail to manage it

and you fall out with them, the consequences, as I will say a bit

later, are harsh, let us say. once he had power, a huge majority,

a vast mandate, why didn't he act then to deal with those forces?

It's not that I was afraid of taking them on but I knew that if I

did, you have to be very clear about this, and that was the debate

I had with Alastair and others within government all the way

through, if you take this on do not think for a single moment that you

are not in a long protracted battle that will shove everything else to

one side. Underlying under so of this was one relationship with one

man -- underlying so many of this. Were favours sought or offered with

Rupert Murdoch? There were never any issues expressed or implied. We

decided more often against than in favour of their lobbying. But the

bulk of the conversations about politics and Europe was a very

large part of that, because we had a serious problem, because he had

very strong views on Europe and so did a I. Tony Blair's relationship

with Rebekah Brooks also grew closer -- so did I. He said he said

to her a sympathetic message when she resigned in the wake of the

phone hacking scandal -- he sent her a sympathetic message. This was

a former prime minister who knew exactly how to conduct himself. It

was for the most part a fairly relaxed display. Some people,

though, will never be convinced by anything Tony Blair has to say.

Piers Morgan paid him off for the Iraq war three months after they

invaded Iraq, they held up the Iraq bank for �20 billion. He was then

paid $6 million every year and still is from JP Morgan six months

after he left office. The man is a war criminal! After security guards

put an end to that speech, Tony Blair said that those claims were

completely and totally untrue. sorry for that, Mr Blair. Lord

Justice Leveson apologised. Although that protester was

released without charge by police, a judge later referred to the

Director of Public Prosecutions the incident. Handling the press is

rather less straightforward for Tony Blair and he suggested people

should not play politics. It is very important that David Cameron

is not a left in a position where he is politically exposed on this,

because that is not fair to him. This will be extremely difficult.

But on balance I think it can be done and it should be done now.

Tony Blair had certainly felt pretty exposed when trying to

handle stories about his wife. not saying all these stories

written about her couldn't have been written, but I think when you

add up that number of legal interventions, I think if we were

operating in a proper system after intervention Number Ten, you would

expect someone to say, "Hang on, are we getting this right?" when

you come to over-thirties it indicates a pattern. And when

confronted with a target sometimes the press went too far. What I

think is wrong is when a section of the media, and again I emphasise it

is a section, powerful people within these possessions would say

right, we're going to go after that person. What will happen then is

they go after you and it is full on, full frontal, day-in, day-out. That

is not journalism in my view. That's an abuse of power actually.

Lord Justice Leveson had some ideas about how to handle that abuse, he

said "Any regulator must be independent and had to work quickly

for anyone, including those who could not afford to sue". On Day At

of the inqu of the inquirst Cabinet ministers to in pier with

noticeably tighter security -- to appear. What matters is getting

that balance right, between looking at complaints received with not

hampering that important fundamental principle of freedom.

The education secretary, once a journalist both at the BBC and on

Rupert Murdoch's Times, was very clear indeed about his views on

Murdoch's. I think he is one of the most impressive as significant

figures of the last 50 years. were plenty of occasions when he

had dinner with Rupert Murdoch and his executives but Murdoch had not

lobbied him. You never discussed the BBC licence fee, Ofcom, or

policy interests with Rupert Murdoch? That is correct. This was

evidenced with an unusually long view. News and comment have been

fused in newspapers ever since the first public prints appeared. We

have been spin-doctored ever since the Roman Republic. When you have

politicians in the early 18th century are employing people like

Daniel Defoe or Jonathan Swift publishing pamphlets putting

forward a particular gloss on their fashion.

fashion. Unusual to hear a witness taking on. Lord Justice Leveson's

thinking. -- that was spin to a fashion. We all collectively

benefit from a feeling that we should not be inhibited in stating

our views, on whatever platform, in matters that engage us. Mr Goh move,

I do not need to be told about the importance of free speech -- Mr

Michael does. I really don't. -- Michael Gove. But I am concerned

that the effect of what you say might be that you are in fact

taking a few bad behaviour, which everybody so far in this inquiry

has said is an acceptable, albeit not necessarily criminal, has to be

accepted because of the right of free speech -- is unacceptable. Is

that right? I don't think any of us can accept that necessarily but

there are a variety of sections. There is social ostracism,

disapproval, there is the penalty someone pays who chooses to use a

commercial outlet to publish that is inappropriate or distasteful.

But by definition free-speech doesn't mean anything unless some

people are going to be offended some of the time. On day 81

politician with a very different view on Rupert Murdoch -- a

politician. The Liberal Democrat business secretary who secretly

recorded this. I pick my fights with Rupert Murdoch! Those comments

saw him stripped of responsibility of the Competition Commission.

Jeremy Hunt took over. Vince Cable did not deny he held views on

Rupert Murdoch and that it did not mean he could not make an

independent decision. I thought that was disproportionate political

influence and I thought leaders of major parties had got too close to

them. But at the same time I never had any experiences myself with the

News Corporation newspapers. I have some recognition that the economic

importance of their companies. That is partly w is partly w

expressed any views before I became the minister of the department. To

go back to your central point, this was not a factor in my decision.

Jeremy Hunt's special adviser exchanged hundreds of messages with

News Corp's lobbyist, Fred Michel. Cable's adviser Giles Wilkes

rebuffed requests for meetings. He had a much more limited brief.

if any were his responsibilities in relation to the BSkyB bid?

didn't have any. I certainly didn't give him any responsibilities.

Vince Cable was so careful but how did he end up declaring war? He

said there was a near riot after the day of the exposition and then

in came the undercover reporters. was extremely tense and emotional

and the two women who I thought were constituents coming to see me

I have tried to explain here, I am normally very calm in dealing with

He was also angry about what he believed were attempts by the News

Corporation's lobbyist, Fred Michel, to put pressure on his lead Dem

colleagues. I had heard directly and indirectly from colleagues that

made the wrong decision, from the company's point of you, my party

would be somebody used the phrase "Have done over" In the News

International press. -- used the phrase "Done over". The baled

threats that your party would be done over in the news International

Press, are you able to identify who made that threat? -- a veiled

threats. I believe it was in conversations with Mr Michel but I

cannot be certain. Vince Cable made it clear he would

not name the person who told him about those failed threads. He did

not have records of the meeting. He could not save when it took place.

The allegation got to the heart of supposed used by a news

organisation of its editorial might to achieve commercial. But while

Vince Cable's words had plenty of Business

Business Secretary had to accept that his own record of Commons

could hardly have been a ignored by David Cameron. I understand that

dissection of bias and a bit difficult for me to continue. I

understand that. It does not mean to say that I would have been

biased. But nonetheless there was a perception issue. It is 40 years

since Ken Clarke got his first job since

since the decades had passed, the The power of the press is greater

press are mainly interested on exerting influence on non media

type political issues. They can drive a weak government like a

flock of sheep before them sometimes in some areas. Still, it

is not quite there were not problems with journalists'

behaviour back in the day. When I was appointed to get -- to the

Exchequer, I had to move my bank account because I heard that

journalists were trying to bribe the staff where I had my bank

account. He suggested standards had changed since his time at the

Treasury. Since the last 15 years, after 1997, it has become

positively part of the system that once the government decides what it

is going to do it starts Prix briefing it all out. That has

steadily grown. Margaret Thatcher did not read a newspaper from one

week to the next, he said, but an obsession with the press had

developed since her time, not least with criminal justice. It prisms

are so overcrowded and so difficult to do anything there. We are

steadily toughening up an underclass of criminals who keep

going around and around in the cycle. I blame the newspapers for

that. If they were different we would probably have 20,000 fewer

prisoners in prisons. That is a way of illustrating my opinion.

Journalists were getting sensitive, he said. But this Minister does not

get the best right up himself. There is no newspaper that will

report my views on Europe correctly and objectively. The answer in my

opinion is to go on the radio and television. Stop reading newspapers.

Day 82 was in many ways Judgement Day for the Culture Secretary whose

special adviser exchange hundreds of messages which that News Corp

resign. The minister admitted how he felt about the BSkyB bid. He

sent a memo to the Prime Minister saying that blocking it would leave

the media sector suffering for years. I was sympathetic of the bid.

I hesitate slightly on the word, supportive. Apart from informing

the Prime Minister of my views I was not going out and doing

anything about it. But he was about to be called on to do a great deal

more. Just before Christmas 2010 the news broke that the bid had

been cleared by the European competition authorities. He was

sent a text messages. Congratulations on Brussels. Just

Ofcom to go. Vince Cable had been recorded. Jeremy Hunt and Murdoch

spoke. Then the Culture Secretary text did George Osborne. Could we

chat about the bid? I am worried we are going to screw this up. Jeremy.

At the same time he sent another text, just been called by James

Murdoch. His lawyers are meeting and they say it calls into the

legitimacy of the whole process. Just before five that afternoon

George Osborne replied saying, I hope you like the solution. The

responsibility for the bid will be stripped from Vince Cable and

transferred to Jeremy Hunt himself. It begs his question. Vince Cable

had just lost the rolls through the appearance of bias in one direction.

Doesn't it emerged that you should not have acquired the role for an

equal and opposite reason? No. As I understand it, the point about a

quasi judicial role is that -- not that you acquire has responsibility

for a quasi judicial decision with your brain wiped claim. The point

about the quasi-judicial role is that you set aside any views you

have and you decide objectively on the basis of, in this case, media.

And that for Jeremy Hunt was the central point. Yes, of course he

had had views on News Corp and on the possible deal with BSkyB. But

when he took responsibility for a quasi judicial decision he said

those views aside and relied instead on lawyers and regulators

and reduce, he argued, his political discretion at 20. That

did not stop News Corp's lobbyist friend Michelle trying to convince

the minister and the adviser, complimenting him on his

performance in the Commons and on the television. Jeremy Hunt said he

resisted what he called pushy and cheeky approaches. A one is

beginning to cite the discount it. But at Jeremy Hunt's adviser, Adam

Smith, received many more messages. The minister suggested he had been

warned it down. My feeling is that Adam Smith is the most decent,

straight, honourable person that one could imagine. Even he was not

able to maintain the impartiality that he needed to because of the

volume of communication. I think that was where things went wrong as

far as his communication was concerned. Not that Jeremy Hunt was

beyond informal messages himself. While the bid process was going on

he texting James Murdoch to congratulate him on a promotion.

am sure you will miss Ofcom in New York. This has nothing to do with

the bid. I had heard that he had been promoted to a post in New York

and that he would be moving from London to New York. I was just

sending him a congratulations text. He conceded it would have been

better to have avoided text messages. It was language in Adam

Smith's communication with the lobbyist at Jeremy Hunt deemed

inappropriate. He was trying to deal with a stakeholder. I don't

believe he did give them some stand to their advantage. Still, it was

Adam Smith that resigned and not the minister. I do think about my

own position. I had conducted the bid scrupulously fairly throughout

their restaged. I believed it was possible to demonstrate that. --

throughout every stage. I decided it would not be appropriate for me

to go. It was with a heavy heart that I felt we had no choice but to

accept Adam Smith's resignation. Jeremy Hunt's own departure was up

on the cards. Very soon after his evidence finished Downing Street

said that they thought he dealt with it properly. They said a

ministerial watch her would not be called in to look at the case. It