04/12/2011 The Politics Show East Midlands

In the East Midlands: How pupils will have a say in the

running of new school - the first of its kind in our region.

Should patients at Rampton Security Hospital get disability living

allowance? And is it fair to abolish national

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2017 seconds

Hello, I'm Marie Ashby, and coming up here in the East Midlands:

you've heard of academies and free schools, now one of our colleges is

to become a co-op. The first of its kind in our region. So what's in

store for pupils and parents? Should we stop paying disability

benefits to patients at Rampton Security Hospital?

And we look at the regional impact of the Chancellor's Autumn

Statement. How for instance would abandoning national pay rates

affect workers in the East First, pupils at a Derby college

may actually be looking forward to going back to school after

Christmas. By then, it'll be a co- op. And they'll get a

representative on the board that runs it.

There are co-ops all around us. From supermarkets, to department

stores. Funeral directors to some of the East Midlands' cricket clubs.

Commercial organisations, run by their own members, are finding

themselves in fashion. And now this school in Derby wants to become one

as well but what makes a co- operative Trust at different from

an academy? As interest school will funded by the local authority. -- a

trust school. The major one is local accountability. A corporate

of trust is rooted in democracy, staff, students, parents, community

groups all have a voice in how the school is run. To say the school

was not doing very well is to understate things. In 2006, just a

quarter of pupils got five good GCSEs. Now that figure is

approaching 90 %. So with the school now back on track in terms

of results, the head at Da Vinci Community College wants to embed it

in the local community. The co- operative movement has a very

distinctive ethos around self help, self-determination, democracy,

Equity, fairness. Those are values we would want to instil in our

young people but they are also the values that we as an organisation

want to promote. One of the more radical changes that co-operative

trust status would bring about is giving power to students. They'd be

members as well as their parents and in time, would be expected to

sit on the board which sets the direction of the school. I would

like to choose to become a member because it is interesting to find

out things inside the school. A it's brilliant that we get her

voice, as to what goes on in the school. It will develop much for me,

a voice. Public sector workers, including teachers on strike this

week in Derby. It's changes to their pensions that brought them

out onto the streets this week, but the increasing involvement of

children in the running of schools is worrying some in the profession

too. We trained to do that job and head teachers trained very hard. It

is important we are trusted to do that job. They are welcome to put

their input into what but the expertise lies with the teachers

and the school. Why should parents pretend that they know a lot about

what goes on in a classroom or in education? The school says that

children will not be involved in teachers' terms and conditions, the

pay all the curriculum. The subject that are taught, the amount of time

that their subjects are given on the timetable, the direction of the

school's curriculum, that impact on jobs. As well as pupils and parents,

the corporate have also will have members from the community,

including from this company. -- co- operative. It is based in Derby and

specialises in software for schools. It is a private company that sells

services to schools. It gives a for it in third daughter the company,

right back to the heart of a state- funded school, and it is something

we are concerned about. Is there a conflict of interest? Absolutely

not. The company's presence is there as an advisory partner on the

trust board, in the way the university, the college is. There

is no sense that they have a special arrangement with the

company. In fact, they are prohibited under the laws of the

trust from gaining any kind of advantage. Da Vinci's expecting to

become a co-op school in January. Because the school's already a

trust, it won't need to go through a consultation. But the NASUWT,

which has seen many of its Derbyshire members strike in recent

months, says industrial action can't be ruled out over this issue

either. We may have to defend jobs and terms and conditions through

strike action. If Co-ops are supported by all sides in

Westminster. We'll see next year if this school's pioneering move takes

off. So interesting times ahead for

staff and pupils. With me now head teacher, Mark Cottingham, who we

heard from in Chris's report, and Katie Rodgers who's here to speak

up for pupils. She represents the Secondary Students Association.

Academies, Free Schools, now a Co- Op. How are we meant to make sense

of all these competing options?! is very confusing for people. There

are so many changes in education at the moment. If you had asked me

what was a corporate to trust a year ago, I might not have been

able to answer. The essential thing as far as the committee is

concerned is that what we want to do at Da Vinci is route the school

in the local community. We are not interested in going down at the

Academy read because they felt that lost accountability. We wanted a

school where parents, staff, pupils all felt part of a community.

powers will parents have now compared to traditional state

schools and academies? Powers is perhaps the wrong word. It is about

a voice. It is important to differentiate between the governing

body and the trust board. The trust board is there to listen to parents

and students and staff and take on board their ideas because they have

got some wonderful ideas. People have already come to me with ideas

about what we can be doing in the community. It is about hearing

their voice and building upon their expertise, to advise us on the way

forward. A World peoples be the ones to decide who will represent

them in the end? -- will pupils. There will be a members' forum so

anyone who is a member will be eligible to going to the Forum and

they can elect a representative on to the board. That is for staff,

students, parents and community groups are more interested in three

future of the college. How will students get their voice heard?

have a conventional student counsellor at the moment and

traditionally, the student council does put forward ideas but it is

limited in terms of its scope. What this will allow them to do is have

a voice on the board itself. Some ideas that people have had already

are around things like after-school clubs, breakfast clubs. Also

changes to the environment. We have a nice Pond's Beria and we are

looking at developing in -- -- a nice bombed area. -- pond area.

are you go to make sure this is not just a token gesture? Yeah, I think

that is a genuine concern. That is part of the attraction of the co-

operative Movement for me because the co-operative movement is rooted

in certain values and part of those values is equity, democracy. It is

genuinely listening to students' ideas, not just giving them the

chance to talk about the colour of the toilets. What sort of issues

which you like students have more of a sale? How lessons will be

structured. People learn in different ways. Maybe the students

giving feedback on at the lessons, what they thought worked well and

what didn't work well, and rather than teachers just listening,, it

having an impact. One of the most sensitive issues will be what you

think of teachers. Do you mean what level the students should be

involved in? And what you think of the students and how they teach?

Decisions should have an impact because especially with students

sitting on the board, you will have someone from the company mentioned

as well and that is good. But the students should not be compromised

by the private organisations. The students are the main stakeholders

in their education said the boy should be heard at every level.

This is a cause for concern, that the company is on the board. You

say they will not get any commercial influence. Why do think

they want to be involved? They have been involved with Da Vinci for

quite a long time. They are already on our existing board so there will

be no change to that. If the person involved is somebody who is in the

community and has been a teacher in the past. -- the person involved.

It is gaining expertise from that company, rather than any commercial

interest. I think we can put that one to bed. I am interested in what

Katie is saying about student involvement. I was interviewed a

year ago and the student part of the most challenging. Good luck

with it. Thanks very much to both Some patients are getting �100 a

week in disability allowance. Why, when there are so many staff to

look after them? The hospital's chief executive made it clear he is

not happy either. We would all be much more comfortable if they

didn't get it. Patrick Mercer is the MP whose constituency includes

the hospital. He has spoken to the chief executive, who we heard from

just there. D you share his concern that patients should be getting

this allowed? Absolutely because some do and some don't, that is a

problem. There is very little to spend the money on and what is the

point of saving it in many cases? It is an anomaly which includes an

him -- an unpalatable difference between patients. It seems absurd

they should be getting disallowance one-fifth got in effect so many

staff looking after them. Absolutely. Having come right in

saying that big patients at similar hospitals are the single most

expensive individuals to keep in any part of the public sector. They

already seething -- receiving a huge amount of taxpayers' money. I

don't think they need any more and most probably don't want it either.

He say some patients are getting the salaams and some are not, the

problem is the Department of work and pensions has insisted they are

not getting this allowance. How crazy is that? Am -- and go to

follow that up with ministers. -- I am going to follow that up. Unless

I have been deceived, this is not what I have found. I will follow

this up with ministers. We're talking about 100 patients get a

�100 a week, at a time when you are clamping down on benefits for some

of the most vulnerable people in a country. It doesn't make any sense

and that is why I've got to go to the department and try and iron out

this particular anomaly. Do you think you can get this sorted out?

A it is a saving, for heaven's sake, we've got to be able to. Dr Harris

is worried about the friction between patients who are getting

disallows and those who are not. It does cause problems. That I think

is where we have the clearest understanding. You cannot have some

patients to receive it and some who do not. It causes friction, envy

and difficulties. Although they don't get it in cash, they get it

to spend it in the shop. They can get weight problems, eating sweets

and chocolates... Half of the problem but patients have to face

is a dietary and exercise problem, the balance between the two. Spare

cash to spend on sweets and Good night -- goods like that doesn't

help them and doesn't help the staff. How often do you go to the

hospital? I tried to do three or four surgeries a year there, it is

close to where I live. I do go there. I initially went in order to

try and give support to the staff because there hours make it

difficult to get to Parliament and surgeries but I end up seeing some

patients while I'm there. What are the concerns do you have about a

hospital? One of the things I have a difficulty with tried to explain

to the patients why some of them have finished in some places quite

lengthy criminal sentences but then there are passed into the care of a

hospital for indeterminate periods. That is very difficult to explain

to patients who are facing all sorts of difficulties themselves

and have no apparent end in sight to coming out of government care.

Sentence is the wrong word but it seems to them to be pretty bleak at

times. It is a closed world as we found out, making that film. Do you

get a sense of the dilemmas facing staff? There are some strange

things that go on their, for instance a male patient and a film

made -- patient choosing to get married. Has that happened? How did

the staff and of that? How can those two people be allowed to

continue in Eneas form of married life? It is without precedent. It's

a difficult situation but everybody is human and these things will

happen. It is an extraordinary closed community for good reason.

Let us get -- do tell us how you get on sorting out the allowance.

Next: the impact of the Chancellor's Autumn Statement on

the East Midlands. Politicians of all colours have been celebrating

the news that the A453 is to be widened from the M1 to Clifton. And

other major projects to get the go ahead include the rebuilding of the

London Road Bridge in Derby. Without it, the road would have had

to close, forcing businesses to shut too. So some good news to

celebrate for a change. I've been joined by the Labour MP for

Nottingham South, Lilian Greenwood and Conservative MP for Sherwood,

Mark Spencer. We gather the A453 scheme will start within three

years. That's something you have to give the Government credit for.

It is really great news for Nottingham. It would have been

great if they hadn't cancelled it 18 months ago and that scheme could

now have been under way. It was just one glimmer of light in a day

when we just heard nothing but terrible news. A growth falling,

unemployment rising and borrowing even higher as a result of people

being out of work and claiming benefits. You are saying they

should have got on with it a long time ago. Unfortunately, it's taken

us 18 months to get their. Millions government had 13 years. We are

doing it better than them. -- millions government. You have to

suspect that this project could not be seeing the light of day without

the �20 million that the Conservative majority on the county

council has put him into this. is great that the county council

are putting money in but as I say, the overall picture for the East

Midlands and the country is absolutely dire. The Chancellor's

plan, it is a complete and utter failure. We are seeing the only

reason this is happening at all is because of that failure. You are

happy that the road... I am delighted. It was the first

question I have ever asked in the House of Commons. Businesses and

constituents wanted. I'm pleased it is happening. It is worth putting

on record, the county council has been to Macias about this and has

badgered the Ministry of Transport to death to get this driven through.

-- it has been tenacious about this. What benefit will we see? It needs

to filter through to jobs. This is all about jobs for me and that is

what we need to focus on to make sure we get jobs, particularly in

the north of the county. But is wary not -- do not have as many

jobs as we should have. This has got to be good news for businesses?

What we have seen on the regional growth and so far is that the East

Midlands has got virtually nothing out of it. One of the reasons that

is the case is because the government scrapped the East

Midlands Development Agency which businesses and councils say was

doing a really good job. Of course we would like to see some of that

regional growth fund money coming here but what we have already seen

is that the Chancellor's plan, including the growth plan is not

going to make a difference. We are going to see unemployment rising

cost of borrowing going up and growth flat lining. It will make

precious little difference. It is down to people like us to solve the

problem and create jobs, without creating another bureaucratic

nonsense. Let's roll our sleeves up and create jobs for local people.

Is that the right attitude in the current climate? What the

government has been doing over the last 18 months has been a problem

which is cutting too far and too fast. That is why the economy is in

the state it is? So we borrow more money, do we? You are borrowing

even more. He wanted to borrow even more still? We want to cut our

cloth, focus on what we want to do, creating jobs. The government is

clearly unhappy that so many public sector workers went on strike this

week. Is that why the Chancellor is now talking about abandoning

national pay rates? I think they are completely unconnected. Let's

not forget, a lot of public sector workers crossed those pick-up lines

and went to work. Let's pay tribute to those people who did not go on

strike and went to work to serve their community. What other

rationale can there be behind this, to drive public sector pay down?

The economy is different in different parts of the country.

Everybody will recognise that if you work in central London, you're

cost-of-living is very much higher than it is in this part of the

world. You can make the same argument that it is the high cost

of living... The Treasury cites research by the Institute for

Fiscal Studies that the pay of some public sector workers is 10 %

higher in some parts of the country. In the public sector, some people

do a bit better at it. You'll find that women in the public sector do

a little bit better and partly that is because there is not the unequal

pay you find in the private sector. I think the thing that seems to be

scrabbled out is just vindictive and provocative. It is women,

dinner ladies and classroom assistants who will be hit by this

yet again. Yet again, women bearing the brunt. That's just wrong. It

doesn't matter whether you are male or female. We are on the same pay

structure. We're talking about public sector pay. Unions are

warning that any move to abandon national pay rates may lead to more

industrial action. Let's get around the table and talk about this, sort

it out, without running to the streets again. Let's be grown-up,

get around the table and talk about it. That the government grows up

that could be good. That is all the unions asking for full Stock let's

sort it out. If only they would! Why don't you? Many of these have

taken the public -- direct action because they are so frustrated

about the action van to the government has taken, which is

hitting families and women hard. People are now hearing that their

pay will rise by no more than 1% and yet again... A lot of that is

to sort out the mess inherited from the previous government. That is

where we are. The economy was growing strongly when you took

office and unemployment was coming down. 18 months later, as the

result of things you've done, on employment is going up and the

economy... A people know what are the inheritors and that is --

people know what we inherited. was the bank as that caused the

crisis and you are making that crisis even worse. The Derbyshire

and Nottinghamshire Chamber of Commerce has told us that the

government has been -- must be careful because it could lead to

more regional imbalance. There are already regional imbalances. There

are people in the public sector that cannot afford to buy a house

in central London because of the imbalance in a cost of living. What

the government is saying is let's look at what is happening in the

private sector and tried to make those balances similar in the

public sector. How do you see this working out? Of course people who

work in London and the south-east already get regional supplement

because people recognise the cost of living is higher. The only

impact it is likely to have in the East Midlands and hours at

Nottingham City Council earlier, is to depress wages in the East

Midlands. If people are having their wages cut further, they will

have less to spend on shops, services and businesses will suffer

as well. Is it right for some public sector workers are better

off than others, if they are in an area where housing as living costs

are less? Am not convinced that is the case at all anyway. -- I am not

convinced. There is a national Speight -- pay spine. You admit

that their art and balances in the country. I cannot understand your

argument. We are already doing it - - with it. It seems the chance of

thought it up on the way across the road from the Treasury. We will

have to leave it there but thank you for joining me in the studio.