04/12/2011 The Politics Show East


04/12/2011

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Welcome to the politics show. We may have less than a week to save

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Hearn in the east, children in care facing an uncertain future as

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council's move away from running residential homes. And after a

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pivotal week in politics with grim news from the Chancellor and the

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Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2012 seconds

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bigger strike for a generation, we Welcome to the part of the

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programme for us in the east. Later, in a week where the government

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admitted it won't achieve its own pledged to close the deficit by the

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end of this Parliament, and saw the public sector stage the bigger

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stride for 30 years, we speak to the business Secretary about his

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hopes for the East. This region has enormous potential, if you look at

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life sciences, and science work around Norwich, this is the

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tremendous success stories across Europe. And we met the woman who

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strikes fear into the heart of the Prime Minister. The number of

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children has homes in this region is shrinking, moving could ring

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care elsewhere. Most of our council still run children's homes, and

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also independent providers. There are no council-run homes in Luton

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and Southend, and Essex is trying to join them by closing seven of

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its homes. But it has been taken to court by one of its own teenagers,

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trying to stop it pushing ahead with plans. The judge ruled that

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the closures could go ahead but he was highly critical of how or the

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council is implementing the measures and you were called it

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could not move children out unless they want to go. The case

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highlights the changes for children in care as councils increasingly

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look to private provision or having no residential care at all.

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It is a world away from the children's homes from years ago,

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one of the charities which once this home, says it is not right for

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everyone but can have advantages. Live in in aid children's home, you

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have got more staff. You can go up and speak to them about problems.

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If you live in a foster place, you have only got two people to go to.

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We can offer stability, unfortunately, quite a few trilled

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and will go through a number of foster homes and I think if you can

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get the right residential home with the right people who are properly

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trained and recruited, and you can settle children down, then I think

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the stability bit is the most important thing. Jerome went from a

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Norfolk Trojans home to train at a London drama school, but he has

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also become a campaign after hearing that Essex is planning to

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close seven of the homes. -- Norfolk's children's home. It is

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the same as it happens in your home, your children is taken away, it is

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no different. People build up relationships with their carers,

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they should be, you need that support structure. Without it, how

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are you supposed to come home and talk to your carers. A teenager

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took Essex County Council to the home court, it is ruled the council

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would have to guarantee it will not move children out unless it is in

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their best interest and only after their views have been taken into

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account. He is very happy that he will be able to stay there and he

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hopes he can until he is 18. Almost another year. He is very pleased

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about that. I think he would quite have liked to have a ruling from

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the court. That it was unlawful, but he accepted his barrister's

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advice that what he got from the court was the best outcome he could

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achieve. This home is one of six in Norfolk part-funded by charity and

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part-funded by the county council, we have contacted authorities

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across the region, and those who have got back say they have no

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plans to change the ownership or privatise homes. Although some say

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they only use homes for those needing specialist care. When you

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look at the figures, you can see why some councils would look

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towards fostering. It industry show that looking after someone for just

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one week in a council-run home, costs two and a half 1000 pounds.

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For an independent home, 2250, and for foster care, that figure drops

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to �400. It is reported that Essex could save a million per year by

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shutting homes, the High Court did not say they could not do it but

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was highly critical for allowing children to think they could be

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forced out by Christmas. communication that the judge was

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critical of was in the judicial review papers. We have not push

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that. As clearly as we could have done that it was a target date, it

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was never a definite. You have got to go through the planning process

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with young people. The judge was caving and he said it caused

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unnecessary distress for the children, what is your reaction to

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that? We hear what the judge said, and we accept the criticism. We

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have been working very closely with young people on their care plans.

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If the target date for good planning reasons has to be put into

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the papers, if that is being misunderstood and we have not

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communicated that, then that is unfortunate. Back in London to Rome

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has the play for Essex, here. would urge them to be careful, for

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services like residential care and foster care, they will be pushed to

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breaking point. When you reduce the service, you need to be careful.

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That play was taken to Norman Lamb, the MP for Norfolk, earlier this

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week he met with our reporter who began by asking him if it is wrong

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that a teenage boy should have to take Essex County Council to court

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in the first place. It is deeply troubling that this youngster feels

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it is necessary to pursue legal action. It suggests a real failure

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of communication in the sense that for him, he is not being listened

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to. Sometimes difficult judgments must be made. Every public body has

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a responsibility to use money to best effect, and what we are all

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trying to achieve is trying to improve care and improve the

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services which are provided. At a lower cost. If you can achieve that

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then that is a good thing. The very fact that that youngster feels it

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necessary to pursue legal action suggests there is something flawed

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about the process the county is pursuing. If a local council said

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to you and said we are thinking of closing out children's homes,

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outsourcing up a care for gullible trilled and, should we do it? What

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would your advice be? My advice would be that you must act in the

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best interest of children and individual children, and we must

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make sure that whenever we place a child, it is determined by their

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needs. Their interest, rather than on the basis of any institutional

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bias. His cost a driving factor behind decisions like this to close

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the council's in-house Trojans care homes. In Essex it is going to save

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more than a million pounds a year, they say. You always have to look

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at how money is being spent, whether it is being spent

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effectively. Any political party, where at a national level or local

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level must do with money. These are the most vulnerable to children it

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in society, you must get it right for them. Peter Byrne is with me,

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the Conservative MP for Wellingborough. And we have the

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chief executive of the Who cares Trust. To you first of all, was

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there a surprise when you heard that Essex County Council had

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decided to close their homes? Absolutely, everybody who works in

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the care sector was stunned when we heard Essex were going to close

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almost all of their homes. These homes were particularly good. They

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were exemplary, they were practising a model for social

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pedagogy, the best practice in children's homes, all of their

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staff were being trained in this model. Their staff were going to

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conferences and seminars telling people how well this was working

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and showing how this was leading to better outcomes for the young

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people in the homes. They were a model of good practice, and we were

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all very surprised when we heard what Essex were planning. Peter

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Byrne, does it worry you that a charge has had to take his own case

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to court and has fought for his case to stay in their home. Norman

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Lamb said it was very surprising, but from my point of view, I have

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always listen to people from the care sector who say children are

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better off in foster care rather than residential. I am a little

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surprise that people are saying we should have more residential care

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homes. That does not seem to be what people have said to me in the

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past. Natasha, what is the place for care homes in this day and age?

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They have a very important role to play, but we must guard against a

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sense of a hierarchy of care. Policy makers at the moment seem to

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indicate that they feel adoption is the best place for trilled and,

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followed by fostering, followed by children's homes. I think any

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ideological view of where a child should be placed is dangerous, that

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moves us away, as Norman Lamb was saying from individualised

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decisions based on each child's best interest. Many children are

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better off in homes, the children's homes are improving across the

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country, whoever runs them. Private companies, or the voluntary sector,

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across the board when inspected by Ofsted, they are all getting better.

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For many children, that is where they want to be. They don't want to

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be placed with a family because they have a family of their own. In

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some cases fostering would not be possible or best because they have

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come such difficult backgrounds with psychological and emotional

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trauma. It would be difficult for them to manage their behaviour.

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Peter Bone, in your constituency, as I understand the decisions for

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disabled should and could change, would you like to see care homes

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stay in council hands? It should be individual for the child. Care in

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the community, everybody said people must be cared for in the

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community and that was the great thing. Now we are saying some

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cannot be cared for in the community. That is probably what we

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are saying we have residential care. As chairman of the Council Against

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trafficking, we saw that they need to be in a residential home

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separately, and fostering for them would be wrong for them. I don't

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think you should say one idea is right, you must look at the mix.

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Natasha is absolutely right. Natasha, thank you very much. Peter

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Bone, we will come back to you later. Quite a week, the economic

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forecasts in the autumn statement went from bad to worse. Now a one-

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in-three chance of recession. The deficit will probably not be

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cleared in this Parliament. A public sector pay cap, and if that

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is not enough an extra 300,000 people in the public sector will

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probably lose their jobs. Against this backdrop the business

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secretary was in Norwich on Friday addressing a conference on how to

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make the economy grow. These are the people on whom the

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government is pinning its hopes of recovery. The leaders of the

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region's small and medium-sized businesses. If they can grow they

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will create more jobs and kick- start a fragile economy. All were

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in surprisingly positive mood, but most also admitted to having

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worried. Lots of opportunity but people are making it very slow to

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make decisions. Why? I think they are frightened. There is worry with

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many clients about staff, but that is what will happen in the

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situation we are in. They are spending the money surviving.

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are hard, I think it is always in the back of your mind that things

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could stop completely. Things are rumbling along OK at the moment but

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it could all change. The business community is determined. What is

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going on is not good news but we just must carry on. I think we can,

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Norfolk has been ignored by the government, which is why we have

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since cable here. The business Secretary was also trying to be as

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positive as possible, growth the said would come not from the City

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of London but from the regions. Hours, he believes, is well placed.

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The enormous potential in this region. If you look at life

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sciences, and the signs work in Norwich, it is the biggest cluster

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in Europe. A tremendous success story. Many people in the creative

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industries and high-tech industries around Cambridge, and advanced many

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factory at Lotus, we have the work from the North Sea and renewable

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energy. The work in Great Yarmouth. This region has enormous potential.

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So why aren't we doing any better? The conference was asked to vote on

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what they thought the most important thing was to unlock

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business growth. By a wide majority they said it was the difficulty in

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obtaining finance. People are worried about the finance flow, but

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what the government is trying to do is make sure that lending to small

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companies and medium-sized companies is maintained so that

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companies have access to capital and we can provide guarantees,

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making sure the interest rate that the government has on its own

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borrowing is translated into the borrowing of companies. We have to

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twist the arms of the banks. The Bank of England this week warned

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banks they must set aside more money for banks. Will that make it

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more difficult to spend money? We are asking them to be prudent. They

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must not go bust again. I think the way of reconciling the two things

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is to make sure we are ruthless in cutting down on bonuses and on

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dividend payments. If we do that then they should be saved, whilst

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at the same time lending more to good British companies who need the

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capital. What if they don't do that? We have one major bank owned

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by the government, another is partly owned. All of the banks

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depend on the government and direct forms of intervention may be needed.

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This coalition government came into power with a pledge that it would

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do away with the deficit by the next election, that may well not

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happen now. We also know that in a mop of public sector people losing

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their jobs will be far higher than expected. Is this still credible

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policy? The markets think it is, otherwise we would not have the

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lowest borrowing rates of any major country, lower than Germany. The

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reason is that people who lend the government money are confident we

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have a very clear plan to deal with the deficit. It is a massive

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problem. Rising out of the financial crisis, the government

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acquired the biggest deficit in the Western world. We have a plan to

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deal with it, it has involved a lot of pain and difficulties.

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haven't lost credibility? Absolutely not, these are difficult

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times but the government has credibility. We are making

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decisions unlike Americans and other European countries. A strong

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government which is united, with a clear programme. We have a clear

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strategy of dealing with public finances and rebalancing the

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economy to business investment and export and manufacturing. Stay with

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us, we still have Peter Bone with us and Michael Kitson, an economist

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in Cambridge. A robust defence of government policy there, but let us

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look at the budget, they have cut the budget for the next four years,

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1.8 lower than expected. His is having an impact on growth? They

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are having an impact, but it is negative. The austerity measures

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are not working. It is higher borrowing. A clear strategy as

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Vince Cable said, but it is not working. We need a new strategy for

:52:12.:52:17.

growth and there is none. Either from the current government, or

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from the opposition. No clear strategy on how to create growth in

:52:21.:52:25.

the future. This is the big gap in the policy domain at the moment.

:52:25.:52:30.

Vince Cable said that if the banks won't land they will be forced to,

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one would assume that would be happening already. Thence made the

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point, and did in opposition, that we are asking the banks to do more

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two things. We want them to lend more and create more capital. We

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cannot really ask them to do both. He said we could buy a cutting

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bonuses and dividends. I agree with that, but trying to lend more and

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increase the capital base, there is a real problem. Michael Kitson, is

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there a Plan B? Not at the moment, we need to look at where growth is

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going to come from. It is not coming from households, we are

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worried about debt and people losing their jobs. It is not going

:53:16.:53:22.

to come from firms, they are not going to invest. It is not going to

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come from trade because world economy is stagnant. Where will it

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come from? It should come from the government taking a more proactive

:53:30.:53:35.

approach. What we must take in mind here is that we have had a

:53:35.:53:38.

significant recession which is causing long-term scars in the

:53:38.:53:44.

economy in this region and the UK. What do you make of that? Michael

:53:44.:53:50.

Kitson saying we need a plan B. we had two more economists they

:53:50.:53:54.

would all be disagreeing. There is credibility and what the government

:53:54.:53:58.

is doing and that is shown in the markets. We do not have a sovereign

:53:58.:54:02.

debt crisis. Personally I would stop paying the extra �22 billion

:54:02.:54:07.

that the government is planning to for the European Union, cap

:54:07.:54:10.

overseas aid and return that in the form of tax cuts to get growth

:54:10.:54:15.

going. But there is no question that the government has credibility

:54:15.:54:20.

in the current policies and we should be grateful. Michael Kitson,

:54:20.:54:24.

I'll be in a downward spiral? economy is that lining, very little

:54:24.:54:29.

growth as we have seen from the forecasts. It is likely to go on

:54:29.:54:33.

for five to 10 years. The economy will have very slow growth, one per

:54:33.:54:38.

cent on year for the next five-10 years. Much lower than we normally

:54:38.:54:43.

expect, it would normally be too- three per cent, that is stagnant

:54:43.:54:46.

growth, but many people have talked about the last decade which will

:54:46.:54:53.

face us in the future. That is why we need a plan that be. We need a

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growth strategy, or from the opposition telling us what they

:54:58.:55:04.

will do. It is just not there yet. -- Plan B. We need strategies for

:55:04.:55:09.

growth. We have seen this plan a before, the one we had currently,

:55:09.:55:16.

the last decade in the 1920s. We are seeing it again. Plan A and

:55:16.:55:20.

Plan B, I think that is rubbish. When the facts change you change

:55:20.:55:25.

your policy. I think it is a sensible course at the moment. None

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of this will be solved until the euro-zone crisis is dealt with, and

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until we get rid of this ridiculous Europe and countries go back to

:55:33.:55:37.

their own currencies. We will come back to it on another day, thank

:55:37.:55:42.

you. Nowt to the woman who David Cameron's tries most to plays, it

:55:42.:55:52.
:55:52.:55:52.

is not his wife apparently, but our guest. I am open to people coming

:55:52.:56:01.

to speak to me. I am a good listener, neighbours, coffee shops,

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at the coalface, as it were. Jenny Bone, wife of the

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Wellingborough MP. She is regarded as the sound of the silent majority,

:56:14.:56:22.

how did she and this accolade? With a little help from her husband.

:56:22.:56:27.

Bone wanted to know, whether a bail-out payment before 2013,

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despite qualified majority voting, Britain would vote No in any case?

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I know she would be very happy if the Prime Minister give that

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undertaking and it would be very helpful for our household if she

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would. I do feel as if a big part of my life is trying to give

:56:46.:56:56.
:56:56.:56:56.

pleasure to Mrs Bone. Mr Bone macro strategy is epitomised by his wife

:56:56.:57:02.

of 30 years. We disagree on many things. More than you would think,

:57:02.:57:07.

I think. Capital punishment, I think we disagree on that. We

:57:07.:57:12.

disagree on a number of things. I expect him to be perfect and he

:57:12.:57:19.

expects me to be perfect, we are too stubborn. In equal measure.

:57:19.:57:24.

is only by talking to Jenny that I feel I know what is going on in the

:57:24.:57:29.

constituency. People speak to me about individual cases, but Jenny

:57:29.:57:33.

reflects through our daily conversations, and we will speak

:57:33.:57:38.

late at night and she will tell me what has been going on. I pass back

:57:38.:57:43.

to Peter what I hear from people. They are not necessarily my views

:57:43.:57:47.

and I don't necessarily always agree with what I'm hearing, but I

:57:47.:57:53.

pass it on to him. Who will talk to me at 2am about what is going on?

:57:53.:57:58.

That is a huge advantage, something which has worked really well.

:57:58.:58:03.

Anyone who can be married to me for 30 years must be close to a saint.

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Very nice words, but a serious sense of it. The reason I do it is

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because as Jenny says, it reflects what my constituents are saying.

:58:15.:58:20.

Every time the club is run it repeats the question, and it gets

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publicity for what my constituents are saying. Will Mrs Bone continue

:58:26.:58:30.

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