Browse content similar to 04/12/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
Welcome to the politics show. We may have less than a week to save | :00:06. | :00:16. | |
:00:16. | :00:49. | ||
Hearn in the east, children in care facing an uncertain future as | :00:49. | :00:53. | |
council's move away from running residential homes. And after a | :00:53. | :00:57. | |
pivotal week in politics with grim news from the Chancellor and the | :00:57. | :01:07. | |
:01:07. | :01:07. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2012 seconds | :01:07. | :34:39. | |
bigger strike for a generation, we Welcome to the part of the | :34:39. | :34:44. | |
programme for us in the east. Later, in a week where the government | :34:44. | :34:48. | |
admitted it won't achieve its own pledged to close the deficit by the | :34:48. | :34:52. | |
end of this Parliament, and saw the public sector stage the bigger | :34:52. | :34:56. | |
stride for 30 years, we speak to the business Secretary about his | :34:56. | :35:02. | |
hopes for the East. This region has enormous potential, if you look at | :35:02. | :35:09. | |
life sciences, and science work around Norwich, this is the | :35:09. | :35:14. | |
tremendous success stories across Europe. And we met the woman who | :35:14. | :35:21. | |
strikes fear into the heart of the Prime Minister. The number of | :35:21. | :35:25. | |
children has homes in this region is shrinking, moving could ring | :35:25. | :35:30. | |
care elsewhere. Most of our council still run children's homes, and | :35:30. | :35:34. | |
also independent providers. There are no council-run homes in Luton | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
and Southend, and Essex is trying to join them by closing seven of | :35:38. | :35:44. | |
its homes. But it has been taken to court by one of its own teenagers, | :35:44. | :35:48. | |
trying to stop it pushing ahead with plans. The judge ruled that | :35:48. | :35:52. | |
the closures could go ahead but he was highly critical of how or the | :35:52. | :35:55. | |
council is implementing the measures and you were called it | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
could not move children out unless they want to go. The case | :35:59. | :36:03. | |
highlights the changes for children in care as councils increasingly | :36:03. | :36:09. | |
look to private provision or having no residential care at all. | :36:09. | :36:14. | |
It is a world away from the children's homes from years ago, | :36:14. | :36:19. | |
one of the charities which once this home, says it is not right for | :36:19. | :36:25. | |
everyone but can have advantages. Live in in aid children's home, you | :36:25. | :36:32. | |
have got more staff. You can go up and speak to them about problems. | :36:32. | :36:40. | |
If you live in a foster place, you have only got two people to go to. | :36:40. | :36:45. | |
We can offer stability, unfortunately, quite a few trilled | :36:45. | :36:50. | |
and will go through a number of foster homes and I think if you can | :36:50. | :36:54. | |
get the right residential home with the right people who are properly | :36:54. | :36:59. | |
trained and recruited, and you can settle children down, then I think | :36:59. | :37:05. | |
the stability bit is the most important thing. Jerome went from a | :37:05. | :37:09. | |
Norfolk Trojans home to train at a London drama school, but he has | :37:09. | :37:13. | |
also become a campaign after hearing that Essex is planning to | :37:13. | :37:19. | |
close seven of the homes. -- Norfolk's children's home. It is | :37:19. | :37:24. | |
the same as it happens in your home, your children is taken away, it is | :37:24. | :37:28. | |
no different. People build up relationships with their carers, | :37:28. | :37:33. | |
they should be, you need that support structure. Without it, how | :37:33. | :37:38. | |
are you supposed to come home and talk to your carers. A teenager | :37:38. | :37:42. | |
took Essex County Council to the home court, it is ruled the council | :37:42. | :37:46. | |
would have to guarantee it will not move children out unless it is in | :37:46. | :37:50. | |
their best interest and only after their views have been taken into | :37:50. | :37:56. | |
account. He is very happy that he will be able to stay there and he | :37:56. | :38:02. | |
hopes he can until he is 18. Almost another year. He is very pleased | :38:02. | :38:06. | |
about that. I think he would quite have liked to have a ruling from | :38:06. | :38:11. | |
the court. That it was unlawful, but he accepted his barrister's | :38:11. | :38:15. | |
advice that what he got from the court was the best outcome he could | :38:15. | :38:20. | |
achieve. This home is one of six in Norfolk part-funded by charity and | :38:20. | :38:24. | |
part-funded by the county council, we have contacted authorities | :38:24. | :38:27. | |
across the region, and those who have got back say they have no | :38:27. | :38:32. | |
plans to change the ownership or privatise homes. Although some say | :38:32. | :38:36. | |
they only use homes for those needing specialist care. When you | :38:36. | :38:40. | |
look at the figures, you can see why some councils would look | :38:40. | :38:45. | |
towards fostering. It industry show that looking after someone for just | :38:45. | :38:51. | |
one week in a council-run home, costs two and a half 1000 pounds. | :38:51. | :38:58. | |
For an independent home, 2250, and for foster care, that figure drops | :38:58. | :39:03. | |
to �400. It is reported that Essex could save a million per year by | :39:03. | :39:07. | |
shutting homes, the High Court did not say they could not do it but | :39:07. | :39:11. | |
was highly critical for allowing children to think they could be | :39:11. | :39:15. | |
forced out by Christmas. communication that the judge was | :39:15. | :39:21. | |
critical of was in the judicial review papers. We have not push | :39:21. | :39:27. | |
that. As clearly as we could have done that it was a target date, it | :39:27. | :39:33. | |
was never a definite. You have got to go through the planning process | :39:33. | :39:37. | |
with young people. The judge was caving and he said it caused | :39:37. | :39:40. | |
unnecessary distress for the children, what is your reaction to | :39:40. | :39:48. | |
that? We hear what the judge said, and we accept the criticism. We | :39:48. | :39:53. | |
have been working very closely with young people on their care plans. | :39:53. | :39:57. | |
If the target date for good planning reasons has to be put into | :39:57. | :40:01. | |
the papers, if that is being misunderstood and we have not | :40:01. | :40:06. | |
communicated that, then that is unfortunate. Back in London to Rome | :40:06. | :40:13. | |
has the play for Essex, here. would urge them to be careful, for | :40:14. | :40:18. | |
services like residential care and foster care, they will be pushed to | :40:19. | :40:26. | |
breaking point. When you reduce the service, you need to be careful. | :40:26. | :40:31. | |
That play was taken to Norman Lamb, the MP for Norfolk, earlier this | :40:31. | :40:36. | |
week he met with our reporter who began by asking him if it is wrong | :40:36. | :40:40. | |
that a teenage boy should have to take Essex County Council to court | :40:40. | :40:47. | |
in the first place. It is deeply troubling that this youngster feels | :40:47. | :40:53. | |
it is necessary to pursue legal action. It suggests a real failure | :40:53. | :40:57. | |
of communication in the sense that for him, he is not being listened | :40:57. | :41:05. | |
to. Sometimes difficult judgments must be made. Every public body has | :41:05. | :41:10. | |
a responsibility to use money to best effect, and what we are all | :41:10. | :41:14. | |
trying to achieve is trying to improve care and improve the | :41:14. | :41:20. | |
services which are provided. At a lower cost. If you can achieve that | :41:20. | :41:27. | |
then that is a good thing. The very fact that that youngster feels it | :41:27. | :41:32. | |
necessary to pursue legal action suggests there is something flawed | :41:32. | :41:36. | |
about the process the county is pursuing. If a local council said | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
to you and said we are thinking of closing out children's homes, | :41:40. | :41:45. | |
outsourcing up a care for gullible trilled and, should we do it? What | :41:45. | :41:50. | |
would your advice be? My advice would be that you must act in the | :41:50. | :41:54. | |
best interest of children and individual children, and we must | :41:54. | :42:00. | |
make sure that whenever we place a child, it is determined by their | :42:00. | :42:06. | |
needs. Their interest, rather than on the basis of any institutional | :42:06. | :42:12. | |
bias. His cost a driving factor behind decisions like this to close | :42:12. | :42:16. | |
the council's in-house Trojans care homes. In Essex it is going to save | :42:16. | :42:22. | |
more than a million pounds a year, they say. You always have to look | :42:22. | :42:26. | |
at how money is being spent, whether it is being spent | :42:26. | :42:31. | |
effectively. Any political party, where at a national level or local | :42:31. | :42:37. | |
level must do with money. These are the most vulnerable to children it | :42:37. | :42:42. | |
in society, you must get it right for them. Peter Byrne is with me, | :42:42. | :42:46. | |
the Conservative MP for Wellingborough. And we have the | :42:46. | :42:52. | |
chief executive of the Who cares Trust. To you first of all, was | :42:52. | :42:56. | |
there a surprise when you heard that Essex County Council had | :42:56. | :43:01. | |
decided to close their homes? Absolutely, everybody who works in | :43:01. | :43:05. | |
the care sector was stunned when we heard Essex were going to close | :43:05. | :43:10. | |
almost all of their homes. These homes were particularly good. They | :43:10. | :43:15. | |
were exemplary, they were practising a model for social | :43:15. | :43:19. | |
pedagogy, the best practice in children's homes, all of their | :43:19. | :43:23. | |
staff were being trained in this model. Their staff were going to | :43:23. | :43:27. | |
conferences and seminars telling people how well this was working | :43:27. | :43:30. | |
and showing how this was leading to better outcomes for the young | :43:30. | :43:35. | |
people in the homes. They were a model of good practice, and we were | :43:35. | :43:40. | |
all very surprised when we heard what Essex were planning. Peter | :43:40. | :43:43. | |
Byrne, does it worry you that a charge has had to take his own case | :43:43. | :43:48. | |
to court and has fought for his case to stay in their home. Norman | :43:48. | :43:53. | |
Lamb said it was very surprising, but from my point of view, I have | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
always listen to people from the care sector who say children are | :43:57. | :44:02. | |
better off in foster care rather than residential. I am a little | :44:02. | :44:05. | |
surprise that people are saying we should have more residential care | :44:05. | :44:09. | |
homes. That does not seem to be what people have said to me in the | :44:09. | :44:15. | |
past. Natasha, what is the place for care homes in this day and age? | :44:15. | :44:20. | |
They have a very important role to play, but we must guard against a | :44:20. | :44:25. | |
sense of a hierarchy of care. Policy makers at the moment seem to | :44:25. | :44:29. | |
indicate that they feel adoption is the best place for trilled and, | :44:29. | :44:33. | |
followed by fostering, followed by children's homes. I think any | :44:33. | :44:37. | |
ideological view of where a child should be placed is dangerous, that | :44:37. | :44:43. | |
moves us away, as Norman Lamb was saying from individualised | :44:43. | :44:47. | |
decisions based on each child's best interest. Many children are | :44:47. | :44:51. | |
better off in homes, the children's homes are improving across the | :44:51. | :44:57. | |
country, whoever runs them. Private companies, or the voluntary sector, | :44:57. | :45:01. | |
across the board when inspected by Ofsted, they are all getting better. | :45:01. | :45:06. | |
For many children, that is where they want to be. They don't want to | :45:06. | :45:09. | |
be placed with a family because they have a family of their own. In | :45:09. | :45:14. | |
some cases fostering would not be possible or best because they have | :45:14. | :45:17. | |
come such difficult backgrounds with psychological and emotional | :45:17. | :45:23. | |
trauma. It would be difficult for them to manage their behaviour. | :45:23. | :45:30. | |
Peter Bone, in your constituency, as I understand the decisions for | :45:30. | :45:34. | |
disabled should and could change, would you like to see care homes | :45:34. | :45:40. | |
stay in council hands? It should be individual for the child. Care in | :45:40. | :45:44. | |
the community, everybody said people must be cared for in the | :45:44. | :45:47. | |
community and that was the great thing. Now we are saying some | :45:47. | :45:52. | |
cannot be cared for in the community. That is probably what we | :45:52. | :45:58. | |
are saying we have residential care. As chairman of the Council Against | :45:58. | :46:03. | |
trafficking, we saw that they need to be in a residential home | :46:03. | :46:08. | |
separately, and fostering for them would be wrong for them. I don't | :46:08. | :46:13. | |
think you should say one idea is right, you must look at the mix. | :46:13. | :46:19. | |
Natasha is absolutely right. Natasha, thank you very much. Peter | :46:19. | :46:24. | |
Bone, we will come back to you later. Quite a week, the economic | :46:24. | :46:28. | |
forecasts in the autumn statement went from bad to worse. Now a one- | :46:28. | :46:32. | |
in-three chance of recession. The deficit will probably not be | :46:32. | :46:36. | |
cleared in this Parliament. A public sector pay cap, and if that | :46:36. | :46:40. | |
is not enough an extra 300,000 people in the public sector will | :46:40. | :46:44. | |
probably lose their jobs. Against this backdrop the business | :46:44. | :46:48. | |
secretary was in Norwich on Friday addressing a conference on how to | :46:48. | :46:54. | |
make the economy grow. These are the people on whom the | :46:54. | :46:59. | |
government is pinning its hopes of recovery. The leaders of the | :46:59. | :47:02. | |
region's small and medium-sized businesses. If they can grow they | :47:02. | :47:07. | |
will create more jobs and kick- start a fragile economy. All were | :47:07. | :47:12. | |
in surprisingly positive mood, but most also admitted to having | :47:12. | :47:17. | |
worried. Lots of opportunity but people are making it very slow to | :47:17. | :47:24. | |
make decisions. Why? I think they are frightened. There is worry with | :47:24. | :47:28. | |
many clients about staff, but that is what will happen in the | :47:28. | :47:33. | |
situation we are in. They are spending the money surviving. | :47:33. | :47:38. | |
are hard, I think it is always in the back of your mind that things | :47:38. | :47:42. | |
could stop completely. Things are rumbling along OK at the moment but | :47:42. | :47:47. | |
it could all change. The business community is determined. What is | :47:47. | :47:53. | |
going on is not good news but we just must carry on. I think we can, | :47:53. | :47:57. | |
Norfolk has been ignored by the government, which is why we have | :47:57. | :48:02. | |
since cable here. The business Secretary was also trying to be as | :48:03. | :48:06. | |
positive as possible, growth the said would come not from the City | :48:06. | :48:13. | |
of London but from the regions. Hours, he believes, is well placed. | :48:13. | :48:17. | |
The enormous potential in this region. If you look at life | :48:17. | :48:22. | |
sciences, and the signs work in Norwich, it is the biggest cluster | :48:22. | :48:28. | |
in Europe. A tremendous success story. Many people in the creative | :48:28. | :48:33. | |
industries and high-tech industries around Cambridge, and advanced many | :48:33. | :48:38. | |
factory at Lotus, we have the work from the North Sea and renewable | :48:38. | :48:44. | |
energy. The work in Great Yarmouth. This region has enormous potential. | :48:44. | :48:49. | |
So why aren't we doing any better? The conference was asked to vote on | :48:49. | :48:52. | |
what they thought the most important thing was to unlock | :48:53. | :48:56. | |
business growth. By a wide majority they said it was the difficulty in | :48:56. | :49:01. | |
obtaining finance. People are worried about the finance flow, but | :49:01. | :49:05. | |
what the government is trying to do is make sure that lending to small | :49:05. | :49:09. | |
companies and medium-sized companies is maintained so that | :49:09. | :49:14. | |
companies have access to capital and we can provide guarantees, | :49:14. | :49:17. | |
making sure the interest rate that the government has on its own | :49:17. | :49:21. | |
borrowing is translated into the borrowing of companies. We have to | :49:21. | :49:27. | |
twist the arms of the banks. The Bank of England this week warned | :49:27. | :49:31. | |
banks they must set aside more money for banks. Will that make it | :49:31. | :49:38. | |
more difficult to spend money? We are asking them to be prudent. They | :49:38. | :49:45. | |
must not go bust again. I think the way of reconciling the two things | :49:45. | :49:51. | |
is to make sure we are ruthless in cutting down on bonuses and on | :49:51. | :49:55. | |
dividend payments. If we do that then they should be saved, whilst | :49:55. | :49:59. | |
at the same time lending more to good British companies who need the | :49:59. | :50:05. | |
capital. What if they don't do that? We have one major bank owned | :50:05. | :50:10. | |
by the government, another is partly owned. All of the banks | :50:10. | :50:14. | |
depend on the government and direct forms of intervention may be needed. | :50:14. | :50:17. | |
This coalition government came into power with a pledge that it would | :50:17. | :50:22. | |
do away with the deficit by the next election, that may well not | :50:22. | :50:27. | |
happen now. We also know that in a mop of public sector people losing | :50:27. | :50:31. | |
their jobs will be far higher than expected. Is this still credible | :50:31. | :50:35. | |
policy? The markets think it is, otherwise we would not have the | :50:36. | :50:40. | |
lowest borrowing rates of any major country, lower than Germany. The | :50:40. | :50:44. | |
reason is that people who lend the government money are confident we | :50:44. | :50:49. | |
have a very clear plan to deal with the deficit. It is a massive | :50:49. | :50:54. | |
problem. Rising out of the financial crisis, the government | :50:54. | :50:58. | |
acquired the biggest deficit in the Western world. We have a plan to | :50:58. | :51:05. | |
deal with it, it has involved a lot of pain and difficulties. | :51:05. | :51:09. | |
haven't lost credibility? Absolutely not, these are difficult | :51:09. | :51:13. | |
times but the government has credibility. We are making | :51:13. | :51:16. | |
decisions unlike Americans and other European countries. A strong | :51:16. | :51:21. | |
government which is united, with a clear programme. We have a clear | :51:21. | :51:25. | |
strategy of dealing with public finances and rebalancing the | :51:25. | :51:30. | |
economy to business investment and export and manufacturing. Stay with | :51:30. | :51:37. | |
us, we still have Peter Bone with us and Michael Kitson, an economist | :51:37. | :51:44. | |
in Cambridge. A robust defence of government policy there, but let us | :51:44. | :51:51. | |
look at the budget, they have cut the budget for the next four years, | :51:51. | :51:59. | |
1.8 lower than expected. His is having an impact on growth? They | :51:59. | :52:03. | |
are having an impact, but it is negative. The austerity measures | :52:03. | :52:07. | |
are not working. It is higher borrowing. A clear strategy as | :52:07. | :52:12. | |
Vince Cable said, but it is not working. We need a new strategy for | :52:12. | :52:17. | |
growth and there is none. Either from the current government, or | :52:17. | :52:21. | |
from the opposition. No clear strategy on how to create growth in | :52:21. | :52:25. | |
the future. This is the big gap in the policy domain at the moment. | :52:25. | :52:30. | |
Vince Cable said that if the banks won't land they will be forced to, | :52:30. | :52:35. | |
one would assume that would be happening already. Thence made the | :52:35. | :52:40. | |
point, and did in opposition, that we are asking the banks to do more | :52:40. | :52:44. | |
two things. We want them to lend more and create more capital. We | :52:44. | :52:51. | |
cannot really ask them to do both. He said we could buy a cutting | :52:51. | :52:57. | |
bonuses and dividends. I agree with that, but trying to lend more and | :52:57. | :53:03. | |
increase the capital base, there is a real problem. Michael Kitson, is | :53:03. | :53:08. | |
there a Plan B? Not at the moment, we need to look at where growth is | :53:08. | :53:13. | |
going to come from. It is not coming from households, we are | :53:13. | :53:16. | |
worried about debt and people losing their jobs. It is not going | :53:16. | :53:22. | |
to come from firms, they are not going to invest. It is not going to | :53:22. | :53:26. | |
come from trade because world economy is stagnant. Where will it | :53:26. | :53:30. | |
come from? It should come from the government taking a more proactive | :53:30. | :53:35. | |
approach. What we must take in mind here is that we have had a | :53:35. | :53:38. | |
significant recession which is causing long-term scars in the | :53:38. | :53:44. | |
economy in this region and the UK. What do you make of that? Michael | :53:44. | :53:50. | |
Kitson saying we need a plan B. we had two more economists they | :53:50. | :53:54. | |
would all be disagreeing. There is credibility and what the government | :53:54. | :53:58. | |
is doing and that is shown in the markets. We do not have a sovereign | :53:58. | :54:02. | |
debt crisis. Personally I would stop paying the extra �22 billion | :54:02. | :54:07. | |
that the government is planning to for the European Union, cap | :54:07. | :54:10. | |
overseas aid and return that in the form of tax cuts to get growth | :54:10. | :54:15. | |
going. But there is no question that the government has credibility | :54:15. | :54:20. | |
in the current policies and we should be grateful. Michael Kitson, | :54:20. | :54:24. | |
I'll be in a downward spiral? economy is that lining, very little | :54:24. | :54:29. | |
growth as we have seen from the forecasts. It is likely to go on | :54:29. | :54:33. | |
for five to 10 years. The economy will have very slow growth, one per | :54:33. | :54:38. | |
cent on year for the next five-10 years. Much lower than we normally | :54:38. | :54:43. | |
expect, it would normally be too- three per cent, that is stagnant | :54:43. | :54:46. | |
growth, but many people have talked about the last decade which will | :54:46. | :54:53. | |
face us in the future. That is why we need a plan that be. We need a | :54:53. | :54:58. | |
growth strategy, or from the opposition telling us what they | :54:58. | :55:04. | |
will do. It is just not there yet. -- Plan B. We need strategies for | :55:04. | :55:09. | |
growth. We have seen this plan a before, the one we had currently, | :55:09. | :55:16. | |
the last decade in the 1920s. We are seeing it again. Plan A and | :55:16. | :55:20. | |
Plan B, I think that is rubbish. When the facts change you change | :55:20. | :55:25. | |
your policy. I think it is a sensible course at the moment. None | :55:25. | :55:29. | |
of this will be solved until the euro-zone crisis is dealt with, and | :55:29. | :55:32. | |
until we get rid of this ridiculous Europe and countries go back to | :55:33. | :55:37. | |
their own currencies. We will come back to it on another day, thank | :55:37. | :55:42. | |
you. Nowt to the woman who David Cameron's tries most to plays, it | :55:42. | :55:52. | |
:55:52. | :55:52. | ||
is not his wife apparently, but our guest. I am open to people coming | :55:52. | :56:01. | |
to speak to me. I am a good listener, neighbours, coffee shops, | :56:01. | :56:09. | |
at the coalface, as it were. Jenny Bone, wife of the | :56:09. | :56:14. | |
Wellingborough MP. She is regarded as the sound of the silent majority, | :56:14. | :56:22. | |
how did she and this accolade? With a little help from her husband. | :56:22. | :56:27. | |
Bone wanted to know, whether a bail-out payment before 2013, | :56:27. | :56:31. | |
despite qualified majority voting, Britain would vote No in any case? | :56:31. | :56:35. | |
I know she would be very happy if the Prime Minister give that | :56:35. | :56:39. | |
undertaking and it would be very helpful for our household if she | :56:39. | :56:46. | |
would. I do feel as if a big part of my life is trying to give | :56:46. | :56:56. | |
:56:56. | :56:56. | ||
pleasure to Mrs Bone. Mr Bone macro strategy is epitomised by his wife | :56:56. | :57:02. | |
of 30 years. We disagree on many things. More than you would think, | :57:02. | :57:07. | |
I think. Capital punishment, I think we disagree on that. We | :57:07. | :57:12. | |
disagree on a number of things. I expect him to be perfect and he | :57:12. | :57:19. | |
expects me to be perfect, we are too stubborn. In equal measure. | :57:19. | :57:24. | |
is only by talking to Jenny that I feel I know what is going on in the | :57:24. | :57:29. | |
constituency. People speak to me about individual cases, but Jenny | :57:29. | :57:33. | |
reflects through our daily conversations, and we will speak | :57:33. | :57:38. | |
late at night and she will tell me what has been going on. I pass back | :57:38. | :57:43. | |
to Peter what I hear from people. They are not necessarily my views | :57:43. | :57:47. | |
and I don't necessarily always agree with what I'm hearing, but I | :57:47. | :57:53. | |
pass it on to him. Who will talk to me at 2am about what is going on? | :57:53. | :57:58. | |
That is a huge advantage, something which has worked really well. | :57:58. | :58:03. | |
Anyone who can be married to me for 30 years must be close to a saint. | :58:03. | :58:11. | |
Very nice words, but a serious sense of it. The reason I do it is | :58:11. | :58:15. | |
because as Jenny says, it reflects what my constituents are saying. | :58:15. | :58:20. | |
Every time the club is run it repeats the question, and it gets | :58:20. | :58:26. | |
publicity for what my constituents are saying. Will Mrs Bone continue | :58:26. | :58:30. |