02/10/2011 The Politics Show North West

And in the North West: as the unions prepare to march in

Manchester, we look at the wave of industrial unrest sweeping the

region. And, life on the straight and

narrow. How to persuade former offenders to give up a life of

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2147 seconds

Welcome to the Politics Show in the North West.

In this show, we examine the industrial unrest sweeping the

region. Are workers' rights under attack?

And life on the straight and narrow. How to persuade former offenders to

give up a life of crime. The last of the big three party

conferences starts today, the Conservatives here in Manchester.

If you look out there, you can see them getting ready for the opening

in just over an hour's time. You also see some protesters gathering

down there. Tens of thousands of people are assembling for the TUC's

march for the alternative. They are protesting against Government cuts

and job losses and in support of public sector workers. With me to

discuss that is commentator and our former Political Editor, Jim

Hancock. Is there a threat that this protest is going to overshadow

the starter of the conference? will be the dominating factor today.

David Cameron will have to try to reassure people across the country

that there is some way forward. North-west Conservatives I have

spoken to have said the around clear what the economic growth

strategy is. It reminds me of 1980s. Margaret Thatcher had started to

make cuts and said that he was not for turning. He must distance

himself from the Lib Dems. A lot of the Tories here will think that

there has been too much of a lover in. Some populist policies had been

announced in the last week? Eric Pickles found some money from

behind his rather large sofa to keep weekly bin collections. Also,

at 80 mph speed limits. On the motorway this morning, it looked to

me that some motorists were not waiting for the consultation.

Let's join Arif now who's down there in the conference area.

As we saw there, 30,000 people preparing to march around this

conference area, protesting against what Unite have called the

Government's economic kamikaze mission. Across the North West,

there is a sense that the temperature is rising as we face

the prospect of that dreaded, double dip recession. But are we

really all in it together? Unions now say employers are taking

advantage of the economic climate to push through changes in working

practices which push back hard won rights. Here's Jayne Barrett.

One out, all out. History shows with economic crisis

comes conflict. Barely out of recession, this week there are

predictions we're about to slip back in. Across the North West,

workers are gearing up for another fight. The employers have turned

round and said, sign or be sacked. There's no alternative. Well, there

is an alternative. Don't sign and fight back. At a building site in

Liverpool, they say they're fighting the biggest threat to the

construction industry in a lifetime. Big businesses are rewriting long

standing agreements. They say it's because multiskilling is now an

essential part of the job. A job that's changed dramatically since

agreements were signed. Unions say it's about pay cuts and deskilling.

Workers are reluctant to go on camera. Totally deskill the

industry and make it more difficult to obtain work for wages which will

be practically unaffordable to live on if you were to bring up a family

and have a mortgage. I've just spoken to a group of lads who

didn't want to go on camera. They believe their wages will reduce by

�2 to �3 an hour if these changes go ahead. They've just joined the

union. But the context to this is that union membership has been in

steady decline. Since 1978 it has halved. I would argue that what

we're seeing now is a consequence of falling union membership. It's

emboldened the employer to think that there's no protection for

workers. The motto at the start of the downturn, we're all in this

together. A CBI survey found 60% of employers were changing terms and

conditions to help cope. For 55% this meant pay freezes. That's

exactly what happened here at this factory in Oldham where they make

posh cakes for Marks and Spencer. At the time the CBI heralded this

as a new era of understanding where bosses and staff together shared

the inevitable pain of the economic down turn. But two years on, staff

here don't feel they've shared the pain at all. The eight directors

have each taken a 10.6% pay increase when staff took a freeze.

If the pain has to be felt, it has to be shared across the work force

and the bosses. Staff might feel let down, but powerless. No-one

wants to say owt. There's two different agencies in there say

something and they'll just get another agency lad in. And what

about agency staff? Yesterday new regulations were brought in to

protect them to bring their wages in line with regular contracts.

Except here at Park Cakes they won't match the regular contract,

but a brand new one, just introduced, known as a zero hour

contract. Which means that these people, with 24 hour notice, can

have their working week reduced. The majority will be on minimum

wage with no sick pay. The company said it consulted with the unions

over the new contract but couldn't reach an agreement. As for the pay

freeze, they didn't want to comment. This academic sees a union movement

which is slowly revitalising. But it's shackled by the system.

problem trade unions face is how do you construct a common dialogue on

a very difficult recession and a very difficult restructuring when

we don't have the same kind of rights that German unions have or

Swedish unions have? And part of the problem is this government and

part of the problem is what the previous Labour government did not

deepen those collective trade union rights. David Cameron wants to

raise the threshold to strike. believe it was a mistake for

strikes to happen last summer. seems unions don't even have a

friend in Ed Miliband. For staff, their only real friend is a job.

They'll ballot for strike action here next week. Most I spoke too

don't want to walk, they just want to work. Someone said to me they've

got you by your short and curlies? Yeah, Catch 22. Take the wages and

stay, or if you don't like it find another job.

Well, with me now is the Chancellor for the Exchequer and Tatton MP

George Osborne. Thank you for talking to us today. As we know,

thousands of people are preparing to march today against the

Government's economic strategy. What is your message to them?

of all, Manchester has been incredibly well combined for the

Conservative conference. What I would say to people marching today,

of course it is your democratic right to march, but in the end

Martin will not help this economy move forward. To union bosses, I

would say this. Planning to go on strike at a time like this when

Britain faces the globe -- global economic debt storm that others are

facing, striking at a time like this will cost jobs, hit growth and

I think is irresponsible. What is the alternative? There is a global

debt storm. The French, German and American economy have ground to a

halt. In Britain, we have got ahead of the curve and are taking

difficult decisions, keeping interest rates down. I know it is

tough for people out there. It is tough throughout the world. The

decisions we have taken in Britain have given us the best chance of

weathering the storm. When you have taken decisions which directly

result in people losing their jobs, how do you feel? The decisions that

the Government are taking are trying to protect jobs in Britain.

We're trying to avoid what has happened in other countries. Look

at Greece, Italy, Spain. You can see in America that there is higher

unemployment. In Britain, where taking tough but necessary

decisions to try to get unemployment down, get investment

into jobs. Today, we have announced that we plan to create 400,000 new

jobs for building new jobs for families. We're investing in jobs

and a future. As there are cuts in public sector spending and those

jobs go, then people are losing their jobs. Look, the Government

over the last 10 years, the previous government, borrowed too

much. We RN at debt crisis. We had the highest budget deficit of all

the countries in the world. How do you personally feel when you know

that cutting back on those things results in people losing their

jobs? Of course every job that is lost is a matter of regret, but I

am working flat out to create jobs. There are 500,000 jobs created in

the private sector over one year. If you go on another borrowing

spree, the interest rates will go up and that will hit every family

with a mortgage, every business in the region who will have to lay

people off. That is why we're doing the tough things we're doing. In a

debt storm, you have to deal with your debts. People may all that.

the Labour conference last week, Ed Miliband accused the Government of

selling BAE Systems workers' jobs down the river. He was the economic

adviser along with Ed Balls who got the country into this mess. Some

silence from him would be appreciated. Specifically, the BAE

Systems jobs, we're doing everything we can to create new

jobs on our existing sites. One we will get new companies into those

jobs site so -- those sites. They have lost their jobs because

countries around the world have been cutting their defence budgets.

We will be creating jobs on those same site for some of the most

talented and highly skilled people in our country. What will it mean,

having an enterprise zone? We will draw up an area of land to get our

rates holiday for any company that moves there. Local area will get

the benefits of some of the taxes that are raised. We have

potentially several thousand people have lost their jobs across the

site belonging to BAE Systems. We want to find new business they is

to take them on. Are you worried when people on your own side are

saying that there simply isn't a good enough growth strategy in

place? Of course, we understand that this country has to work hard

to create more jobs. That is why we have announced the enterprise zone

in Lancashire today. That is why we have announced plans for hundreds

of thousands of new jobs in the construction sector. Yesterday, we

announced plans to make it easier to hire young people. We're doing

everything we can to get this country working and make Britain

open for business to weather the storm of the economic global debt

crisis. Thank you very much. Back to you.

And still joined by Jim Hancock. Major announcement there on and

into Brighstone? Lancashire took a long time to get the Enterprise

Partnership sorted. It should not be over emphasised what these

enterprise zones can do. George Osborne has not said anything about

cutting the 50p tax rate. I don't think we will hear that today.

man is not for turning! -- the man. Now, seven weeks ago Manchester was

one of several cities across the UK, including Liverpool and Salford,

which erupted in riots. When the Justice Secretary Ken Clarke

revealed that 75% of those convicted of taking part had

previous convictions, it added fuel to a debate which has been going on

for some time on how to pull repeat offenders out of a life of crime.

Last year, the Government unveiled a Green Paper aimed at helping

criminals to go straight. One of the first pilots is across Greater

Manchester. But can it be done? Elaine Dunkley reports.

It's meant be a deterrent but for many prison has become a way off

life. This is John. He's been in prison nine times and spent 16

years of his life behind bars. But things have changed. He's now got a

paid job as a supervisor with the Blue Sky Project. But shaking off

the label of convicted criminal isn't easy. Once you have been

inside, you think you have no choice but to carry on committing

crime. It is not for the lack of trying to get a job, it is just

that no one will give you the chance. The blue-sky project has

and it has worked for me. I wanted to change. Luckily, I got the

chance. The Blue Sky project offers training and competes for

commercial gardening contracts. It's helped 500 people like John.

The only thing you need to get a job with this firm is a criminal

record. There are all sorts of reasons why people reoffend. If

people want to get out of the cycle of crime, it is hard for them to

get a chance. People label them and they have preconceptions. Loose

guide proves that people can change, they can be good employees and turn

their lives around. Rather than becoming costly members of society,

they will become taxpayer has. government's green paper called

Breaking the Cycle Effective Punishment places less emphasis on

locking people up repeatedly and more on giving people the skills to

cope with life whilst in prison. At Strangeways, rehabilitation and

honest graft seems to be working. Some inmates are already doing 40

hours a week in the laundry and other workshops. The prison has

managed to cut reoffending rates by one third. Inmates on short

sentences are giving -- given mentoring to help them cope with

life on the outside. With the prison population at an all-time

high, perhaps it's time to think outside the box. Greater Manchester

Police is trialling a new scheme. If they can cut re offending rates,

they get cash back from the government. A lot of it is repeat

business. The same offenders time and time again. It is a huge part

of the workload for social services and the police. If we can work

closer together on long-term programmes, that will reduce crime

and help the public. We have to come up with alternatives to short

prison sentences, but it is not easy. It is about giving people an

offer to help them with their project. -- problem. This youth

centre in Whythenshaw has been tackling gang culture for over 15

years. Their concern is that not enough's being done to stop

youngsters getting into the prison system in the first place. If you

ask a councillor, they will tell you quite confidently that lots is

being done. And there is. What is being done on estates like this.

Youth clubs, youth provision. The problem is it is only attracting a

certain level of youth. Unfortunately, they're not

stretching themselves to bring in the kids that do want to be part of

street gangs and out there that are carrying knives and have access to

guns. The government say the measures it is introducing aren't

about being soft but drawing a hard line under the cycle of crime.

I am joined by Paul Maynard, a local MP. If you want to keep

people out of prison, cutting youth centres is not the way to go.

point. If you want to stop people getting on the conveyor belt of

crime, youth services are one way to do that. But it is not just

councils that provide youth services. Many voluntary groups

around the country do that. If I was running a local council, I

would be asking myself, if I had to cut your services myself, is it

such a good idea to increase the rent for or scout services? They

have to look at the issue as a whole. Would you say the

Conservatives still are the party of law and order? You want to cut

prison places and cut police officers. We very much our. We

believe that victims are not getting a fair deal. The previous

Government tinkered with the Criminal Justice Act constantly. We

have spent 10 years coming up with our policies on law and order. We

have tried to understand why the number of people and the prison

population is increasing. We don't believe it needs to be. You have

talked about having less people in prison and more about

rehabilitation. Do you believe that is the way to draw? I simply posed

the question. If crime is coming down, why is the prison population

going up? There was a knee-jerk reaction in the aftermath of the

riots. There should be a correlation between the amount of

crime committed and the prison population. I don't think the

judges over reacted. They had a difficult situation to deal with.

There was an incredible amount of demand from the public for a hard

hitting reaction. The people committing these crimes, many of

them didn't have previous convictions. Each individual had