04/12/2011 The Politics Show Northern Ireland

20 miles from a police station. That's what is promised under

closure plans, but is that good enough if you are in a rural area?

Plus, an interview with the new Shadow Secretary of State Vernon

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2032 seconds

It was a week that started with controversy at with the public

sector strike and ended with a confrontation between Unionists and

Nationalists at Belfast City Hall. Policing dominated the headlines

but for more modern reasons. It was for budgetary pressures. Coats to

the number of stations will not have an impact, we were reassured.

We do not want been the situation in which older people are afraid to

walk in the streets in the 9th time. And the new Labour man fighting our

corner in Westminster. He is not pulling punches when it comes to

cuts to our funding. Is it not about time that our Secretary of

State still looks for Northern Ireland and told the Chancellor to

get a proper plan for jobs and growth? We will be joined by Vernon

Coaker later in the programme. Personal, professional, protected

policing. That is what the PSNI promises in brochures that were

delivered to homes across Northern Ireland this week. How will the

closure of 34 police stations affect the delivery of community

You would not go out at night time. There is not enough policing. It

makes you feel a bit more It is early evening, midweek. We

are in an area known as the diamond. Close To hear in the early hours of

the morning, three men smashed their way into the home of an

elderly man. They tied him up, beat him and then fled hours later. It

is no surprise that pensioners here tell us they are feeling frightened,

vulnerable and isolated. The man attacked by the robbers is well

made these pension is. There are victims here as well. When I came

home after getting my pension, the House was wrecked. Three weeks

after the same thing happened. They took quite a few items. I went away

to my daughter's house for Christmas. Whenever I came home,

the back windows were all broken. I did not lose anything, but I was

very traumatised. I would not stay on my own after that. The police

sometimes call in at the senior citizens' #ColourCyan club. People

see we want to see one the main streets. They do not one to be in

the situation of being afraid to walk up the High Street after 10pm.

They feel intimidated by gangs of he and people knocking around. They

feel afraid. The police have closed around 60 stations across Northern

Ireland in the past 10 years. Between now and 2016, the Chief

Constable plans to close another 30 or so and sell off sides. This week,

senior officers came to the Policing Board to just five there

proposals and to pledge their commitment to community policing.

am passionate about neighbourhood policing. We put additional

resources into our neighbourhoods to reassure the public that our

response times will not be affected by any of the stations. Unionists

are uneasy about the planned closures and the debate is likely

to spill over into the Assembly. These senior citizens have the

chance to lobby ministers during a recent -- recent visit to Stormont.

They had a message for the chief constable. It is farcical that you

have come up with this idea. If you are saving money by closing

stations, they should be investing money and more pleased bodies out

on the beats in the streets. need to get rid of police stations

that are not needed. It is about efficiency. It is not political. We

will have discussions, we will do refuse and consultations. At the

end of that, the police board will make a decision. The proposed

closures in this part of County Down will leave a large section of

the county without a police station. There will be no station between

My memories of the police station go back 15, 16 years, when we had

eight full-time offices, are one sergeant and four part-time

reservists. This police station was mothballed two years ago. A mobile

police station made a handful of visits to the area, but residents

say they have not seen it for a long time. Gradually, it was

withdrawn, and the reason for that, I have been told, is they only have

one mobile police station for the whole of this section which takes

in County Down and Castlereagh. Different areas are bidding for it.

There are five Modahl police units costing �50,000 each. Despite the

proposed closures, they say they have no plans to buy any more.

There'd concerns about the perceived lack of police presence.

This is the local Second Presbyterian manse in this town

which was burned to the ground on Saturday. This is the type of

activity we do not want in this district. My belief is that with

the collusion or -- the closure of more police stations, we will have

more of this type of activity, and it hurts me to say that. I believe

that is a fact. With me now from the Policing Board are Jonathan

Craig, Trevor Lunn and Conal McDevitt. Sinn Fein say it is not

political. Do you think it is? hope it is not political. I hope we

can approach this problem in a non- political way. That might be

impossible. Give us a flavour of the meeting on Thursday. It was

inconclusive, because the board was asked for a lot of information. We

have to look at these prospective closures one at a time. I do not

think it will be a straight case of unionists wanting to keep them open

and Nationalists wanting to keep them closed. I hope it does not

develop into a unionist and Nationalist dogfight. I think that

good sense might prevail. Is it a sweeping generalisation that

Nationalists will be happy to see police stations closing? It is not

only a generalisation, it is nonsense. Everyone in this week to

-- region is interested in a police service which is more interested in

a community that my I'm living in the past. The police need to be

present in those communities. If you close police stations, creating

huge gaps in County Down, for example, you will give rise to the

perception that the police are no longer part of that community. That

is not in that realism's interest, nor unionism's, and I were darkly

that it is not even in the police's interest. Some people living in

cities do not know the name of their local police officers. Why

should people in rural areas? Surely it is about response time

and the way of getting beastie quickly if you needed. For police

in cities should know the name of their police officer. But --

especially in highly populated areas, people should feel like they

have a personal relationship with their local police officers. In my

community, people do know who their local sergeant is an to the three

or four Constable's art who patrol the beat. That is the new beginning

bet we are all looking for. What is depressing about this debate is two

things. The police are forcing us at a time when the district police

in partnerships are about to be disbanded and therefore will be

unable to conduct the consultation properly and with communities, and

the second thing is that it gives rise to the suggestion that we are

returning to a security driven agenda. We are moving away from

what pattern envisaged -- Patten envisaged. Are you reassured?

think there is a level of agreement around this. There was a general

consensus among all of the board members, how does this deliver

better community policing in a local, rural community? We feel

there has been little rural proving put into this policy. There is a

genuine fear that this will damage local community policing. And there

is a third factor, witches, is this a good use of public finances? A

lot of police stations have a lot of money spent on them to bring

them up to standards for the police officers. Are we now and then

saying that after spending a �430,000 on a police station, for

example, is it a good use of public funds to close that two years

later? In the bigger picture, we have to save money. The health

service, education. And surely many of the stations are only good for a

few hours a week anyway? Yes, and there is an issue there. I was at a

Christmas dinner for an elderly group yesterday. One of the

individuals have found a purse for somebody on the street, and it was

given to me, because he went to his local police station to handed into

find it closed. He was frustrated and annoyed that he could not

access his local station. But is that a big enough reason to keep

police stations open when crimes against the elderly, violent crimes,

are much more important that we eradicate those as much as we can

and have people at on the streets? That is what the police say they

will do if they can save money. totally agree. The priorities are

to eradicate that sort of crime within our communities. But they

will say this. Are we going to eradicate that crime, are we going

to convince the local communities to pass information on to their

police force and their local police officers? That is where the

information stream is coming from now within communities. Local

people talk to their local officers. Are we going to increase or

decrease that Communication Stream between the police and the local

communities by taking the savage cuts across a police stations? I

think it is counter-productive. My local station was closed a number

of years ago. We were promised a series of interventions, likely --

like Noda police stations. That fell apart in a number of months.

That community up there now feels very isolated. They do not see

their police officers enough. happens, then? How do you square

this circle? It is like the health debate, that we all want a police

station in our town or village. Will want a hospital at the end of

the road. We have to make some tough decisions. Certainly, we have

to make tough decisions. The priority must be the most effective

method of policing that we can introduce. I take issue slightly

with Jonathan. The feedback I get is that a lot of people in rural

areas are quite surprised and satisfied with the policing they

have had. But between budgetary considerations, geography response

times, they seem to be huge gaps. If local stations close on top of

slow response times, that is not reassure local people. It comes

down to balance and what is possible and achievable. I do not

think for one minute that all 34 stations are going to close. This

is not a done deal. It has to be agreed by the PSNI, ourselves, the

Department of Justice and subject to full public consultation. Many

are effectively closed, locked up and abandoned. It is the chief

constable's decision on which stations close? Yes. But it is also

the chief constable's duty to prove to us in the Policing Board and to

everyone else who is accountable, that community policing is that the

heart of what he is delivering for this region. When you benchmark be

PSNI ed against similar forces in Great Britain, they are

underperforming. They're not doing it right. If they are not doing it

right now, it begs the question, how will cut in a way more layers

of potential contact with the community make it easier for them

to do so? With the greatest respect, the analogy with health does not

hold true. Policing, withdrawing police stations, even small

community stations, refusing to be open-minded the back having

different types of police stations rather than of fashion barracks, is

actually not equivalent to the process for hospitals. It is

equivalent to closing down a GP's surgery. We seem to think that a

critical emergency service, the success of which in the context the

Lisette being at the heart of every community can be delivered remotely.

It does not stack up logically. Ultimately, it will not deliver

savings. What is your answer, then? How do we save money? We have

decided to set up a working group within the Policing Board to speak

to the police force and come up with a more rational way forward

with regard to this. The amount of savings that is being generated by

closing the stations in the overall savings plan amounts to less than

10% of that plan. They are not huge fears that up being saved in the

policing budget by closing stations. That brings into question the

viability and the rationale behind some of the closures. Not all of

them, but some of them. Thank you very much, gentlemen.

The Secretary of State described the job of labour's shadow

spokesman for Northern Ireland as a difficult and important position.

The man who has that role is MP for the Gedling constituency in

Nottingham, Vernon Coaker. Let us see him in action.

When thousands of public sector workers in Northern Ireland are

worried about pensions, with kids to public services, when growth

figures are so significantly downgraded its, does the Secretary

of State remember when commenting on the budget of March 2011, he

said, and I quote, this is a budget for growth across the whole of the

United Kingdom in which Northern Ireland will share. Secretary of

state, where to go wrong G I am grateful to the honourable member

for his question. He knows perfectly well where it went wrong!

When his colleagues... JEERING when his colleagues landed us with the

biggest deficit in Europe! The complacent and saved from

somebody who has no answers. What will face the Secretary of State

has in the people of Northern Ireland and their ability to help

themselves. If you take �4 billion away and return �142 million, it

most definitely does not add it to a fair deal for Northern Ireland.

Vernon Coaker joins me now. What gives you the credentials, what

qualifications do you have? First of all, I have always had an

interest in Northern Ireland. I have worked in policing, security,

and in the Home Office. I have worked closely with many of the

Westminster MPs. This is the 4th visit I have made to Northern

Ireland since I have been appointed. I want to try to give a voice to

Northern Ireland in Westminster. Will you take on the role of

fighting our corner? Certainly, what I want to do is to try as far

as possible to stand up for the people of Northern Ireland. The

Assembly and the recesses here still have work to do, but there

are some decisions which are made in London which affect people in

Northern Ireland and that is the point I was trying to make at

Northern Ireland questions this week about jobs and growth and the

overall programme that the Government has employed. We should

hardly and discus and debate that. You're standing up for Northern

Ireland, but some of your party colleagues said that Northern

Ireland should not be viewed as a special case. I think there are

special circumstances in Northern Ireland. We have seen from the

various agreements that they are supposed to be a peace dividend

come into Northern Ireland. We can see the impact of the Government's

policies. We have got many young people out of work, �4 billion

taking away from our spending revenue and capital in Northern

Ireland. Those issues need to be raised. I want to see those issues

debated and discussed in Parliament. We need to support the work being

done by the Northern Ireland Executive to create a better future.

Coming to corporation tax, the one thing which a lot of people are

very much hoping will happen and ours will be devolved and we can

reduce a tear ourselves, howdy then justify that to your own

constituents in Nottingham which has its own economic problems?

First of all, you have to make his decision -- made a decision about

corporation tax in Northern Ireland. We need to look at the pros and

cons of that and what will be. Yes, you can devolve the decision to

make the corporation tax level here. But what will the consequences

before the block grant be? We need to be clear about that. My

constituents in Nottingham of facing prospects of joblessness,

welfare reform, and many vulnerable people are being affected. That is

true in Northern Ireland as well. I want to work alongside Northern

Ireland and the Assembly and Executive here to raise issues with

the secretary of state and to say that the to his shins he is making

supporting the coalition government in Westminster impact adversely on

the people of Northern Ireland with respect to the economy. Is the

culmination government keeping you in the lead? Were you prefer the

Finucane case? The Secretary of State has always said he will keep

me informed. I was not aware what was going to happen with respect to

the Finucane family. I was appalled at the treatment of the Finucane

family, who have clearly been brought to Downing Street believing

they would have received something they find acceptable. We have set

that that case is part of an agreement which was made at Weston

Park, and that agreement between the British and Eilish -- Irish

governments should have seen a proper inquiry held. You do not in

the review is enough? Know. -- know, there are issues to be debated with

respect to how you handle the past. There are five other cases being

looked at. With respect to Finucane, that commitment should have been

honoured. Traditionally, Labour has been greener in opposition. Where

you stand? In terms of being greener, the environment is

important, but in terms of working with the Irish government, that is

important as well. I certainly intend to visit Dublin very quickly.

My job was to support the Irish governments, to support the

agreements that it takes with respect to the Northern Ireland

Executive and insure that the Good Friday Agreement continues to work

towards a better and prosperous future. What has been your

aggression from the people you have met so far? Fantastic. I was here