11/12/2011 The Politics Show Northern Ireland

Our finance minister was already a eurosceptic - we'll hear what he

thinks about the latest crisis in Europe. And green energy - is our

executive doing enough to create competition which could lead to

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1820 seconds

cheaper fuel bills? All in half an Welcome to the Politics Show in

Northern Ireland. The body language said it all, but now that we are on

the fringes of Europe, up what does that mean? And these ladies are

lining up to help resolve the energy crisis. From splendid

isolation to the creation of a two- tier Europe. Since Friday the focus

has been on the impact of David Cameron's decision on the UK as a

whole. Since we are the only part of the UK to border I eurozone

country, how will we be affected by the change? The tectonic plates in

Europe have shifted decisively. Greater economic and political

union, but towards the outer fringes goes the UK. The problem

for Northern Ireland is it is situated along the fall line. He

rather problems, first, our economic links with the Republic of

Ireland. Second, inward investment. Companies that want to be in the

heart of Europe will not locate here. Those who want to be at a

heart of the UK will not either. What about corporation tax?

Northern Ireland once it because the Republic has it. Will the

Republic give its corporation tax up to be at the heart of Europe? If

it does, does that complicate our desire to get it here? Stuck

between two sides pulling in opposite directions, Army hostages

to fortune? The earlier I spoke to the Finance Minister Sammy Wilson

and asked for his view. I think he took the right stance for the

United Kingdom, he is the Prime Minister and that is his prime

responsibility. A lot of the anger which is being directed towards him,

we have seen this before. We sold his with the John Major government.

We were told them we were isolated and we would be on the periphery of

Europe and we would be opted out of the movement towards a single

currency, actually, it free the economy and we had an unprecedented

creative boom, and I think that David Cameron has made the right

decision here, why should week tie ourselves to a currency system

which is restricting growth? As Jim has said in his lead in, this could

have a detrimental impact. Obviously we happen to export to

the Republic, the UK economy depends on Europe, if things go

badly, or if we are outside their club, could that not have serious

consequences? It is one of the reasons why eight local companies

have been encouraged to look beyond Europe. They had been decreasing to

European countries but increasing to countries outside Europe. There

is still growth because they are not tied in the way many European

countries are. What will happen in that it -- what will happen to our

relationship with the Republic is difficult to know. If Europe

insists, and do not forget tax powers are now going to go out of a

hand of sovereign governments. If Europe insists that they cannot

have a low rate of corporation tax, that might suit us. If they have to

put up VAT, that would suit us. Until we see how this works out, it

will be difficult to know where are -- and what our business

relationship is going to be like. Do we not make a lot of money

thanks to the Republic? Should we not be looking in the direction of

that? We should be looking at the construction industry, when it fell

flat on its base, there was an impact in Northern Ireland. It is

one of the reasons I think it has been right, the decision to loot at

companies and countries where there is growth. Those are new markets,

they have not been established. It is very theoretical that we would

even get that, whereas we have established links across Europe.

are getting the man firms are moving into those. That does not

mean you should turn your back on markets on your doorstep. If things

are happening beyond your control, and we cannot have any control as

to what happens with the austerity measures in the Republic. If that

dampens demand, we have to live with that. One of the reasons we

have always said we want to see the economy of the Republic, and I do

not take any joy in seeing it going back, because it does has an impact

on us. But if there is things we have no control over we need to

look at things we can control. you mention corporation tax, big

meeting is coming up later this week. You said earlier this week it

was 50-50 as to whether we would get the powers to dissolve our Rome

corporation tax. The government at Westminster is certainly talking

about the devolution of corporation tax. The fact it has taken so long

is an indication it is not a hurry. They are looking over their

shoulder at Scotland. The Treasury is always reluctant to give away

tax raising powers to devolved administrations. I have to say it

that when a compelling case has been made to the government at

Westminster, they have been helpful. In the last few months, there had

been policing, a air passenger duty, flexibility, carrying money over in

the Budget, the government showed flexibility for all these. I hope

when they listen to the compelling case for the devolution of

corporation tax they will do the same. What sort of figure are you

looking for? I do not think it would be wise to say what kind of

figure we will go into negotiations with. All we have said is we do not

-- we understand we have got to pay the price. We want to make sure

that price is the correct price, it is reasonable, it does not hamper

our ability to do other things in the economy by cutting a massive

amount off the plan, and also if the government is keen to help us

rebalance the economy, that they will look for ways of trying to

alleviate some of the cost of that by for example, allowing us to use

some of the extra tax revenues we get from VAT. It would offset some

of that. Do you really wanted? course we want it. It is part of

our programme for government. We have also said in our programme for

government declaration that there has to be a price which is

affordable. Looking at the Chancellor's Autumn Statement, what

are you going to spend the extra money on? It is for capital

projects. Willett the roads, schools? It will be a combination.

We have �400 million to reallocate, we have this �140 million over the

next three years to reallocate, and we have to look at our budget and

decide what kind of capital projects will best help us to grow

the economy, which ones will have the biggest impact in terms of

immediate employment, which once are deliverable in the time period,

pet projects, and those are the kinds of factors we will be looking

at. There are reform programmes within education and health, there

will be some cost involved in that. If we could use some of this

capital money to invest in future. -- in future, we will do that.

about the public Cup, a lot of people are concerned about their

jobs. -- the public cuts. The first thing I want to say, it disappoints

me that time and time again there is emphasis on the number of people

that will lose their jobs. We have committed ourselves to insuring

their no compulsory redundancies in the public sector. We will use

retirement, natural wastage, recruitment freezes, because we

what to keep people in jobs, not put them out of jobs. Building

confidence is key according to the Finance Minister, but where does

the crisis in the eurozone leave businesses here? What about the

impact on the economy in the south? I am joined by Feargal McCormick

and Tony Foley. Good afternoon, Feargal McCormick, do you feel more

or less nervous than there is they? It is not about the uncertainty it

creates here, but having said that at least in the eurozone there is

some decisiveness. We are not foolish enough to believe that 2012

is the decisive year. Do you think we are on the periphery of the

periphery? We are on the periphery of the UK, within Europe, it is

difficult. We are still in the single market and I believe we have

managed in the past two trait to with -- to trade with two different

currencies. How is it being digest did in the south? We have the same

concerns as the British, we do not want to change her tax rate, we are

not too keen on the range given by Europe. With the EU treaties, what

people say at the start is not necessarily the way it turns out,

so there is a long way to go before we end up with at an actual

transactions tax, -- a financial transaction tax. We would argue

long and hard against lot of the measures. You might argue it would

be better for us if he was still in their arguing the things we would

be arguing, but it is a long way between here and what you'll end up

with as an agreed treaty change. What do you see as Enda Kenny's

bottom line? We would have no problems with one tax if it was

applied globally. That proposal was made in the G20 and they shot it

down. Financial institutions in Frankfurt will not be too keen to

have at tax imposed on them if it is not imposed in Britain. We were

a long way away from that. As regards the profit tax, it is a

bottom line figure. If it eventually comes out in terms of

the deal that we have to adopt German or French corporate tax

really quickly, I could see us having to say we cannot accept that

and therefore we would not accept that as a condition of staying in

the Europe. -- staying in the euro. Hopefully it will not happen

because it takes a long time for things to happen. There is at 10 or

15 years adjustment period. We would not have conceded the notion

of changing our 12.5 % rate. It is not necessarily a case of the South

losing out there and asked them winning. -- us winning.

necessarily, but from Northern Ireland view, the lower corporation

tax is important. Our living standards had been less than the UK,

and if we are making a serious effort, lowering corporation tax is

one of the key drivers. Is it the silver bullet? Lot of reports have

said lots of other factors are at play. Before they were saying our

economy was too dependent on the public sector, it has not changed.

There is no doubt about it, lower corporation tax is one of the key

measures that would drive and export-driven private-sector

economy, and we need that in the north. I'd say this deal, is there

any danger that there could be -- hope side of this deal. Is there

any danger that agriculture could suffer as a result? Events could

overtake the fiscal union. The next few months will be crucial. It may

be to do with Italy. Do you think it is enough to save the euro?

at all. It was very disappointing. What we got was the offer of a

small amount of 200 bn. The big thing is the short term measures.

The worry I would have is there is very little of definite precise

impact in the package that came out on the weekend that would have an

immediate impact. In the longer term, everyone agrees there Hasted

be integration, we cannot have Government's borrowing willy-nilly

and expecting other countries to take up that slack. Do you think

there will be an impact on cross- border trade. --?. Absolutely, the

South is our most important economy, and in terms of cross-border retail

trade it will have an impact. In the short term, there may be a

positive in the short term but without doubt we will be in a very

dangerous position if the euro At this time of financial

uncertainty and soaring international fuel price, you would

think that Stormont would be pulling out all the stops to find

greener alternatives to oil and gas. There are plenty of policies but

are they producing the right results? In a moment we'll speak to

the environment minister, Alex Attwood. First, we have been out in

the cold looking for new ways to One thing Northern Ireland is not

short of his grass and cattle. Put them together and the end result

can be quite literally powerful. In this institute, there are around

300 cattle, producing 20 tons of slurry between them. It is used to

produce biogas. It heeds the institute. Each one of these cows

is worth about 80 watts of electricity. -- heats the institute.

There is only about five of these in Northern Ireland, but about 70

at the planning stage. potential is enormous, if all of

the agricultural livestock were put through this, we could have seven %

of Northern Ireland's electricity generated. The returns are very

good. Farmers need to look at the potential of gaining extra income,

but it is the initial investment that is slowing us down. Last year,

just off five % of the energy developed -- generated in the UK

came from Northern Ireland. Scotland is way ahead, contributing

almost 66 % of the UK renewable total. Scotland has the most

ambitious targets on electricity. By Twenty20, it wants to generate

all of its electricity from renewable sources. Most green

energy is produced on sites like this. Northern Ireland has some of

the highest when speeds in the world, but the sector has been slow

to develop. There are 23 when farms in use, a further 27 had been given

Industry bosses say the Executive must take bold moves is it -- if it

is serious. That we need to build an interconnection between north

and south if we can export the energy. Transmission lines will be

necessary. When we look at Scotland, they are so much ahead of us. They

are producing more than 10 times the renewable energy than us in

Northern Ireland. We have such similar potential, and it will

create jobs. While wind farms are growing, and other renewable energy

source appears to be on night -- on ice. Ballymena council has been

developing a geothermal system. We visited a geothermal plant in

England. This runs along here and goes to ackee Exchange, then it

goes out to places in Southampton. The experts say Ballymena is a

perfect location for geothermal heat. The project cannot go ahead

because of conflicting government policies. The depth of the

frustration can be seen in this letter from the chief Executive to

the Department of Enterprise. In its she reveals that the scheme has

had to be suspended because of a delay in the implementation of the

incentive scheme. Even if it was introduced, the project could not

go ahead, because of an obligation under statute not to impact on the

existing or future gas market. She appeals to the Executive not to

impede this. If you look at the experience in Great Britain, they

are moving away from gas, why would the Northern Ireland Executive be

doing the same mistakes? Each party should be able to compete equally

with the other. Putting gas as a night -- at an advantage is the

wrong decision. The department says the concerns are unfounded and it

is committed to extending the natural gas network. It is still

unclear whether the obligation to the gas industry would prevent a

geothermal projects from setting up. They say it is a perfect case of

departments operating in silos. What we see him Scotland is a

definition of their evolution project getting this together and

delivering. A short time ago I spoke to Alex Attwood and I asked

him if the Executive is guilty of a lack of joined-up thinking. I very

much agree that the Scottish Government is showing the best

authority when it comes to renewable energy. I agree with the

Scottish Government when the say it is their biggest economic

opportunity, and it is ours as well. Renewable technology must become

self-sufficient and we must become energy exporters. That is the

challenge for our government. are we so behind? We are beginning

to get much better. There has been a gear change in the last six

months since I came in to the Department of Energy, we have

started setting much more challenging targets. With waists

targets -- always targets, we are only in 4th gear. We need to get

better. Nobody will deny that. we have our eye off the ball when

Scotland was surging ahead? If you interrogate what for example the

planning service has been doing, in terms of renewable applications,

nearly 95 % of wind farms that potentially could produce 25 % of

our energy needs, 95 % of them have been approved. Over 85 % of wind

turbines, individual wind farms, are being approved. The planning

system in my view is demonstrating very good authority in turning over

the planning applications for wind turbines and wind farms. What I

have to do, and what that had been doing, is reconfiguring the

planning system to ensure that where there are good opportunities

for renewable technology we are giving permission. Is there not a

bit of a postcode lottery going on? I do not think so, we need to apply

best planning practice across Northern Ireland. That is why, as

one example, we are rolling out training in the planning service to

ensure that wherever you let, if you make an application for a wind

turbine, you are treated the same way as anywhere else in the north

of Ireland to ensure there is consistency. That is an example of

the planning system beginning to measure up as we need to measure up

in terms of the single biggest economic opportunity for the North

of Ireland and for the people of Ireland. What about this issue in

Ballymena, one department working against the other, saying you

cannot go into this market because the gas Hasted be given priority?

think we need to get that sorted. - - has to be. I think that has to be

sorted. It is a problem for Ballymena, a foreign government,