18/09/2011 The Politics Show South East

The price of power. How can the Lib Dems woo back voters in the South

East and reestablish their identity while they are in Government?

And the price of a high salary. The Tories want to abolish the 50 pence

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2129 seconds

tax rate. Their Coalition partners Welcome to the Politics Show in the

South East. In the next 20 minutes. Paying the price of power, how can

the Lib-Dems bring back voters in the South East and re-establish

their identity while they are in government. The Tories want to

abolish the top rate of cash -- tax, their partners are fighting for it

to stay. Could two of our region's MPs lose their jobs if the proposed

boundary shake-up goes ahead? The Lib-Dem leadership has a task at

conference. It needs to persuade the party ministers are influencing

government policy and up holding party principles. The Lib Dems lost

half their council seats in the South East in the May elections. We

have this report. In the local elections, the Lib

Dems did badly, especially in the South East, where they lost half

their seats. After the election, they made resolutions for their

revival. Are they are on track? Nick Clegg had set out his plans.

There are lessons to be learned. The lesson I have learned,

listening to people, is people want a louder Liberal Democrat voice in

government. They want a louder Liberal Democrat voice and that is

what we will deliver. Why his -- while his words were intended to

appease the grass roots, it did not address the problem of MPs like

Norman Baker. He made interesting comments about the consequences of

increased rail fares. That is an issue for his constituents. It is a

classic example of how the Coalition traps one. Nick leg

cannot be seen to be opposing the Coalition agreement. The deputy

prime minister said when the Lib- Dems have success in the Coalition,

it needs to be communicated. Where we have done things, protecting

people on low pay, taking 900,000 people on low pay out of paying

income tax, we need to say loudly. To the Lib-Dems grass roots think

this has happened? Perhaps not as much as possible. It is always

difficult to get coverage. What people like most of all our

disagreements. We have never had the resources of the other main

parties to have an effective media unit that deals with stories.

local Lib Dems said it should be easy to communicate and message

that affects so many South East workers. There are many people in

the region on low wages. The Lib Dems brought the idea of lifting

the income tax threshold and taking thousands out of paying income tax.

That is brilliant. Shout from the rooftops. I do not get the

impression that people have this knowledge. The party has to get the

message out that the situation and the government would be worse if it

were not for the involvement of the Lib-Dems. Otherwise the damage will

be severe. Another commitment... People want to see us retain an

identity. We have to prove we have not. That is what will happen.

in Lewes this week, people were not clear about the Lib Dem identity.

Can we ask what you think the Liberal Democrats stand for? I do

not really know. Does anybody? not sure. I am not sure many people

are. Pretty spineless. Just to get a bit of fame and they are paying

the price. Now they are in the Coalition, it is difficult to know

where you stand. I would not vote for them any more. It's scenes they

have not achieved what they hoped. It is not surprising, given that

they are in Coalition. Is it possible for them to have a decent

influence while retaining their identity and appealing to

grassroots supporters? Is it one or the other? In the last 30 years

they have been good at local level and campaigning on local issues.

Often they did that by having distinctive local Policies. There

is nothing fundamentally wrong with that. It becomes impossible when

you are in a Coalition agreement. Local activists are disillusioned.

They are losing a distinct ability to do what they have done best,

which is to campaign on local issues. The Liberal Democrat's

continued to explore new territory. They are in government and want to

do well. There are two types of success. To be successful in terms

of power they need to be closer to the Conservatives in Coalition. To

be successful at grassroots level, they need to separate themselves

and establish their own identity. This week's conference will look at

what success they prefer. We can give a louder voice to the

transport minister and Liberal Democrat MP for Lewes. Norman Baker,

we heard you described as intelligent, articulate and brave.

Is it how you see yourself? I am happy to be in government. Most of

our manifesto is being enacted in the Coalition. Is it a one-way

street? It is not. There are compromises that are necessary from

both. That is the case went to parties come together. If you are

inside government, you cannot be as frank as you would like to be. But

you have more access to ministers and can get more done for your

constituents. I am happy. What are your successes? You in the

Department of Transport? We have the biggest railway investment

programme since the Victorian era. We have 560 million in a fund that

I am administering for a local sustainable transport fund. That

will be on cycling, walking, local transport, and we have counter to

the third runway at Heathrow. We are proceeding with high-speed rail.

What about rail fares? Your boss said the train service is a rich

man's toy. I find it regrettable that rail fares are going up. As

soon as the public finances allowed, we should try to bring them down.

What we have done is look at the railway structure. It is not

efficient. There is money to be secured. When we do that, the money

should be handed back to passengers. One think you said you are opposed

to is the rise to the motorway speed limit, which your boss wants.

We stop at? We have a different emphasis on this. The Secretary of

State is clear there needs to be consequences taken into account.

Were you stop it? I will wait to see what the evaluation says. I am

keen that we do not make road safety worse and in -- increase

carbon. This is the complaint, that you could be doing more.

Constituents are feeling frustrated by what you have not achieved.

is not fair. It is not as easy in government to be as vocal as in

opposition. But much of the manifesto is being delivered.

People are being taken out of taxation, a big Liberal Democrat

promise. We have 900 million allocated in the Treasury to tackle

tax avoidance. No number of the people in your constituency, -- and

none of the people are getting that message. There is a problem. I do

not think they have forgotten the message. Had we had 149 more votes

at the local elections we would have kept our council seats. I have

been around the circuit for over 20 years in politics. I have lost

count of the interviews I have done when I am asked if the Liberal

Democrats are finished. Whether it is Charles Kennedy leaving,

whatever the reason, we never finished. We always bounced back.

It is something people vote for. You have the conference ahead. What

will you do to attract voters in Birmingham? We have a good agenda.

What I am proud of by a -- of my party is that we make decisions and

we have to take the instructions back can deal with them. Last year,

the NHS, we took instructions back and the NHS Bill has been altered

to take account of those views. Shirley Williams would like you to

go further. Of course. We have negotiated a good outcome that will

enable us to proceed with cost- saving initiatives. We will give

more power to local GPs. Is everybody happy with everything in

the equation? Probably not. But there will be opportunities when

people can put their views in House of Lords. You also had the

announcement that your seat could be abolished. We've fight that? It

is an the days. -- it is early days. I have not had a chance to discuss

it with my constituency party. We should take things slowly and

calmly and not jump to conclusions. It will be a problem at Uckfield,

which is a Tory stronghold. bottom end... Uckfield is a county

council seat for the Liberal Democrats. You're coming back to

saying we are on our way out. not say that! I wish I had �10 for

every time I hear that. We cannot give you that out of the licence

fee! We will return to Norman Baker. One issue testing the Coalition is

the 50p tax rate, which affects a small proportion of the population

and in over �150,000. Almost a quarter of the 67,000 people leap -

- it in the South East. This week, a study said that the tax rate

costs the government, rather than raising money. This has led to

calls for the abolition of the tax rate. The Liberal Democrats want to

keep it. Chris Huhne said getting rid of the tax will help the

Conservatives' friends in the city. Mr Johnson. It would look unfair

for the poorer people if they are hit by your austerity programme and

then this tax rate is abolished. have helped out people on lower

incomes, ensuring that we are working towards a new rate band of

�10,000 for the lowest earners. I do not subscribe to the view that

we should have rates of taxation that are necessary. If we are not

getting revenue from this tax rate, it should not be there. It might

not be bringing in money. But it is symbolic. If George Osborne got rid

of it, it will look like he is helping his friends in the city.

the tax band does not bring in any revenue, we should be getting rid

of it. We do not make the poor richer by making the rich poorer.

It is not a -- an incentive for people to stay in the country.

Successful people will not be inclined to come to this country if

we had tax rates that are higher. we will cross to Norman Baker. If

it does not make any money, this rate is surely silly? Were eight do

not know if it loses money. This comes from a particular think tank.

The estimate I sought was that it raises 7.7 billion. We should see

what the consequences of this are. What I hope we agree with in the

Coalition is that we want a fair system that helps those at the

bottom end. We want a system that means those who can afford to pay

more should pay more. Does it have to be this form of tax? Would you

be happy with another sort of tax increase? The principle is a

progressive tax. Income tax is a well understood process. It is more

difficult to avoid than other taxes. I am inclined towards income tax. I

am open-minded. People on very high incomes, they ought to pay their

fair share, particularly at a time of economic difficulties. If this

rate is not working, we should look at something else that is more

difficult to avoid, such as the mansion tax, so we can catch the

Russians over here with vast amounts of money and not paying any

tax. The wealth gap is increasing. We have to do something about that,

surely? If the 50p tax rate is not bring in anything in to the

Treasury, we should get rid of it because it is pointless. How else

would you narrow the gap? I would carry on with what we are

endeavouring to do. Helping those on the lowest of incomes to come

out of taxation. That is the Coalition's priority. That is what

we will do before any other tax cuts. It does not make sense to put

in a rate band that does not bring in revenue. We should find out the

situation as to whether it is bringing money in. The Chancellor

said he did not want to change his spending plans because of the

worsening situation in Europe. Chancellor wants to see what income

comes in from this rate. If it is insufficient, I hope we get rid of

it. It sounds as if you are open to that, Norman Baker, if it does not

bring in enough money? This is from a think tank. They are independent.

They tend to come from the right or left. This one is from the right.

If it is proven it loses money, we would be daft to keep it. I would

be surprised. Is this something your party has to do to make a

difference? We do not want a gesture politics. What we agree on

is that the most important thing is to get the people at the bottom and

out of taxation. And to make sure we protect those who are vulnerable

and in work trying to make a living. The principle of progressive

taxation is important. Those who earn the most should pay the most.

Thank you both. As we heard, Norman Baker is one MP

feeling uncomfortable in his seat after the Boundary Commission

announced plans to change the political landscape. Another could

be the MP for Faversham and Mid Kent. The commission is

recommending fewer constituencies, which would lead to fewer MPs. How

could this changed the map in the South East? As you said, the

highest-profile casualty, two ministers actress, but Hugh

Robertson, the Olympics minister, his seat would go. That is because

the electorate would be divided between Canterbury and another. I

spoke to him and he said he is disappointed because it is the

place where he was born and he brought his family up there. He

said on a political level, he agrees with the need to reduce the

number of seats to 600 from 650. Norman Baker would not be drawn,

but half of his constituency will be going into Brighton. He is

looking for vulnerable because of that. If you look at the way they

want to draw it, they propose that because the constituencies are

small, Lewes and the neighbouring constituency, would come together

as Lewes and Brighton East. Lewes is held by a Conservative. If they

take away part of it, it might be more difficult for a Liberal

Democrat MP to hang on to it. Particularly somebody who has voted

for decisions such as tuition fees. These changes will not definitely

happen. What impact could it have on politics? We will not know the

actual impact after the 2013 election. Neighbours say it will be