02/10/2011 The Politics Show Wales

Later in the programme: The Secretary of State for Wales

defends the coalition. We assess the merits of charging

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2137 seconds

for bags with the Federation of Good afternoon and welcome to the

Politics Show in Wales. Coming up: The carrier bag levy and the Welsh

Government's draft budget. But first, the Conservatives are

gathering in Manchester this week for their annual UK conference.The

economy will be the main talking point but Welsh eyes will be on

what's said regarding the relationship between the

Government's in Westminster and Cardiff Bay. The Secretary of State

for Wales has some strong criticisms of the Government here

and we'll hear for Cheryl Gillan in a moment but Adrian Browne looks at

how the Conservatives view themselves in Wales.

And Andrew Davies, the new leader of the Conservative group in the

Assembly enjoying himself meeting shopkeepers.

There are still a spring in his step after his party leapfrogged

Plaid Cymru in the Assembly election to become the official

opposition to Labour in Cardiff Bay. He believes there is plenty of

scope for further Welsh Conservative advances.

I want to be offering a positive embracing manifesto that people

resonate with her and put us in the position we can govern here in

Wales and implement the changes required to lift Wales of the pot

of the economic performance table - - the bottom. The only way you will

do that is by voting Welsh Conservative.

This early Tory campaigning in towns such as poor call for the

local elections promises to give powers to Communities so they can

do more to himself -- Porthcawl. you are talking about this

particular time, there is an incredible number of people

involved in the regeneration story who have been fighting for years to

get things like swimming pools here. That level of local contribution to

political argument is essential. One of the things about the

Conservatives is we listen to that rather than just go, the government

knows best, let them sorted out. How likely of voters facing rising

prices, job losses and UK government have been spending cuts

to keep the Conservative Party as their cup of choice?

We did perform quite well in 2010 and coming second in the National

Assembly elections was a step forward but we could do better. We

haven't yet reached the height of the Conservative party's

performance in Wales in the 1980s and your right to say the economy

will be the crutch of the East -- crux of the issue.

Our correspondent spoke to the Welsh Secretary of State Cheryl

Gillan in Manchester. Hello from Manchester where the

Conservatives are holding what is their second UK conference in

coalition with the Liberal Democrats, very much a Conservative

affair this week. I am joined by the Secretary of State for Wales,

Cheryl Gillan. 16 months into coalition, but it looks as if the

Liberal Democrats don't trust you to deliver on devolution for Wales.

16 months into coalition and I think we have got a very proud

record for what we have delivered in Wales and you will hear that in

the conference speech this afternoon. First of all we are

delivering on infrastructure project. We are putting almost a

billion pounds into South Wales. �60 million going into broadband,

delivering for individuals. Taking 52,000 of the lowest people out of

tax and I have been delivering on devolution itself. Not only

delivering legislation the last Labour government held up which

people tend to forget, but also delivering on the referendum which

allowed the people of Wales to make a decision on the future of the

Welsh government and the Welsh Assembly. Why is it your coalition

partners forced by the leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrats say can

we rely on the Conservative Secretary of State, the

understanding of devolution is too shallow, your account ability to

tenuous and the wells of this believes in giving power away is

simply non-existent? She is allowed any future ones. The

coalition government is working very well -- any views she wants.

The Lib Dems think so. We have worked very successfully in

coalition. It decided to put aside party differences and have a

programme for government in the country's interest, in a contest of

Wales and in the interest of the economy. She is entitled to her own

opinions. Is she right? Quite wrong, completely wrong. You are talking

about some of the things about delivering on devolution in a

speech later today, focusing on the Cameron Commission that will look

at the Assembly government, the powers -- Kalman. You talk about

getting accountability, it you say there isn't accountability at the

moment? Everybody appreciates under way in

which the Welsh government is currently funded a large sum of

money, �15 billion is simply handed over to the world government to

spend how they see fit. They are not accountable for raising those

funds. There has been a secret as to what the commission will be

looking at in terms of the future of Wales and the future of

devolution. He will be spending some time looking at accountability

-- it will be. It will be looking at what the future of devolution

holds for Wales. I did want to pre- empt too much of that because I

know they rob people there are people purported to know what has

been going on and have been blogging quite shamelessly. I am

going to announce that properly in a bubble passion to art -- properly

in the proper fashion to Parliament when we return. Now the number of

MPs is being reduced there will be more list members and fewer

constituency members? I will remain where I was when I

was questioned on that in the House of Commons by a Plaid Cymru MP who

put forward 31st past the post and the 30 list members and the shadow

Secretary of State has nailed his colours to the mast and said he

wants 61st past the post. Soon after supporting a fee was quite a

surprise. At the moment all things considered we are going to look at

the commission first and look at the shape of the electoral process

at a later stage as I agreed with the First Minister when we agreed

to decouple on the changes that were being made to the

parliamentary boundaries. Smallest members would not be more

accountable, would it? I will not have the discussion here and now

but I am interested in the case being put forward and I can issue

and will allow people to put their views forward. He talked about the

big infrastructure projects that the UK government is bringing

forward. One goes through your constituency, the high-speed rail

link to which your constituents are by and large the post. Some are

campaigning outside. Francis Maude, the Cabinet Office minister, says

opponents of the high-speed rail link are insane. Are you insane?

I am not insane. Quite frankly the project that was put forward by the

previous Labour government -- Labour government is something

might objections to a one of on what is important is there has been

a major consultation period -- are well known. He says you're all

insane. A I am sure some of my colleagues already have their minds

made up but the government will be looking at that consultation and

the responses and making a decision in the light of those responses.

The Prime Minister has always given me an insurance this is an open

consultation. You could vote against the government and stay in

office? I am in office because it Bannister has allowed me to

Secretary of State for Wales -- to be Secretary of State for Wales.

You want to carry on. I would love to carry on. I have never been

prouder of the job and doing for Wales. Enjoy your week. That is it

from Manchester for the moment. The conference runs into Wednesday.

That is the end of the conference party season, at last.

Last week, the big event was Carwyn Jones' programme for Government

over the next five years. This week, all eyes in Cardiff Bay will be on

Tuesday's announcement of the 2012/13 draft budget. This year,

the First Minister doesn't have an outright majority so will need some

form of opposition support to get his Government's plan through.

I've been speaking to our political editor, Betsan Powys, who outlined

the challenges facing the Welsh Government.

There are some key points to be made this year. Labour doesn't have

the numbers. They have got 30 members, they need one more to

ensure the budget goes through so we talk about a draft budget, that

is exactly what this will be because there will have to be some

compromises, picking off one Assembly Member or bringing a group

to get the numbers to get it through so they will be changes.

The other key point is this is a purely Labour draft budget. There

are some indications of how they plan to spend the money over the

next couple of years but they were drawn up by Plaid Cymru and Labour

so any changes will be because Labour have made those changes so

that will be interesting to see what they have decided to change

for this draft budget. When it comes to bargaining what

can the other parties possibly expect?

Well, we know where the money has gone down, it is in capital

spending so we need to look at whether they change that balance

between day-to-day spending, Revenue had big capital Betjeman --

budget. Plaid Cymru have been arguing development spend has been

suffering because there is capital in that. The Liberal Democrats

would want to see more money going into education spending. That is

there a number one priority. The Conservatives took about half the

lot and they say in cash terms it is pretty much flak lining, in real

terms that means the health budget is going down by �1 billion. They

would be pressing for more expenditure on health. He is Carwyn

Jones going to listen to? He only needs one person to come over and

support his Budget. Or will there be a whole group that will agree

some compromise and they know where they are heading already I suspect.

If you went about the weekly shop yesterday I hope you remembered to

take some reusable bags with you! If not, you probably had to pay for

the bag as this weekend has seen the start of the compulsory carrier

bag charge in Wales. Although many support the scheme, others says

it's too confusing. We sent our reporter, Lee Madan, shopping in

Cardiff Market. It is a small charge that is making

a big impact. Shoppers in Wales now have to pay at least 5p for every

single used carrier bag. The new law that is receiving eight mixed

response in Cardiff market -- single-use. They should have done

it a while ago. It is for the best. I get why they are doing it. It is

mad. We are taxed on everything as it is without being taxed on

carrier bags as well. It is good, only 5p. Really good. Perhaps some

pensioners can't afford to pay for about like this. Shoppers can still

avoid paying the charge if they buy certain exempt items, things like

loose fruit and vegetables -- and vegetables. If others not exempt

items are placed into the same carrier bag, pre-packaged fruit,

the five p charge applies and it is down to individual retailers to

make sure it is paid -- the 5p charge. People don't expect it when

they turn up to the fruit and veg stall. People are quite aware of

where the boundaries lie with the knack. It can be a bit confusing at

times. We have had a lot of problems this morning with people

wanting to pay 5p, but what is happening, the customers think we

are having the money but we are not. It is fine, but if the product you

are selling is expensive it is a bit cheeky asking for 5p for a

carrier bag. So far it has been pretty good. A

lot of people have been bringing their own backs lately. Russell

runs a men's clothes shop and says he is refusing to ask customers to

pay for bags. Absolutely not. I will continue not

to charge. I will stand up in front of the judge and say I disagree

with it, I don't see why you should find me, I don't think I am

polluting the planet by supplying these bags and I know myself I have

always got four or five that I used for multi-purpose things as ensure

that of my customers do. Former Labour Assembly members sat on the

committee in Cardiff Bay looking into the new law, a law she support

in principle, but says has gone too far. When we were on the committee

I think most of us had in our minds that we were talking about

supermarkets in the main. Those are the big corporates. I do have some

concern the way the policy has developed in its final form, and it

does need tweaking and I would like the minister to have a look at some

of those issues around butchers, fishmongers, and clothing shops.

The Environment Minister is adamant that charge in its current form is

here to stay. A lot of work has gone into working

up this policy and there has been a lot of consultation with retailers,

a lot of discussions. We are confident we have got it right.

Overwhelmingly the people I have spoken to understand the need for

the charge. They don't want to see our streets and countries that

littered with plastic bags and understand the need to be less of a

throwaway society. Shoppers and retailers have three months to get

used to the charge. After that the wash government says it will take

action against anyone not complying. Obviously is there is well thought

refusal to enforce that must be dealt with and the penalties are

there to make sure the charge is absurd.

The message to shoppers is clear. If you did want to pray, bring your

own backs with you. For those who don't, it is time to budget for an

extra cost at the tail. -- if you don't want to pray -- pay.

Iestyn Davies is the spokesman for the Federation of Small Businesses

and joins me now. It might be too early to evaluate

the long-term success of this policy but what have the businesses

you represent been telling you about how it went on the first day?

The vast majority are clearly supportive of any idea that stops

waste, as the minister says it ends this throwaway culture but their

feedback over 24 hours has been sometimes at the shop staff have

been insulted and shouted at, sometimes they have been encouraged

so very variable. Lots of people who I spoke to last

week when preparing an item and be heard from the package complaining

it is far too confusing a policy, people don't know when this charge

will apply. Is that something you have had as the back? If you read

the guidance, there is owed 70 two- page document, and they have

changed in many ways. It is easy to say it I have less than 10

employees so I am exempt from record-keeping but if you are a

small trader and you have to keep records for VAT you have to do a

judicious check on how many bags to tell the fact man. There are some

grey areas -- the VAT man. We urge our members to be supportive and

this has a positive impact on the environment. If it does that to the

detriment of small businesses that wasn't intended.

In terms of small businesses, the, it by Lorraine, she had big

supermarkets in mind when this policy was first thought about. Are

you disappointed it also applies to small businesses? Yes, I am. Small

businesses by their nature are generally part of a more

sustainable way of shopping. We believe in keeping trade local for

so we would encourage people to travel less and walked to the local

town centre and purchase what they need when they needed rather than

filling up their trolley from a large supermarket. This is about

saving the environment, not about saving local businesses. It is, and

local businesses are key to reducing the carbon footprint

intend of retail travel and the journeys we make more often in our

cars to larger out-of-town centres. It is not a simple yes or no issue,

it is very complicated and small businesses have an important part

to play in creating a sustainable retail environment.

Some would argue if the government was 100% behind getting rid of

single used carrier bags then all bags, no matter what was being put

in them, should be charged. The government which had, you have

to remember, had support from all the opposition parties was intent

on taking this route. We managed to negotiate exemptions for small

businesses, bringing a charge down, but ultimately this is the way they

went about it and we don't think it was misguided in what it intended

to bring about but some of the implementation are slightly

misguided. In terms of the enforcement aspect

we know that companies who employ less than 10 people will not have

to keep a record two. Provided they are not VAT-registered.

I am sure you represent organisations which do have more

than 10 employees. Why do you think the government has made it an

enforcement part of this policy that people keep a record, however

they are not compelled under the law to pass the money on?

It is a difficult equation. You cannot use the word tax in the

context of this carrier-bag Levy, levy being the operative word. It

is a strange mix. We are trying to use a bit of carrot and stick. At

the end of the day there are questions to say why not ban all

forms of plastic carrier bags, promote biodegradable, it is very

complex. However you go about it you will leave some people confused.

We are very supportive of this as an initiative. Do you think the

companies will pass the money on to good causes, they don't have to.

I'm confident they will. The people we Speedie, local traders, are very

community-minded. -- we speak to. They want to keep their money local.

Speaking to the co-operative Retail Society earlier, they are looking