02/10/2011 The Politics Show West Midlands

We are in Manchester also where the summer riots continue to cast their

shower -- shadow. In court, an MP says the law must swayed to the

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2145 seconds

Hello again from the Midlands - except that we too are here with

the Conservatives in Manchester, just round the corner from the

scene of some of the worst of the summer riots along with Birmingham,

Wolverhampton and West Bromwich in our part of the country. David

Cameron told the perpetrators they'd face "the full force of the

law". The Conservative MP for Stourbridge Margot James, said the

courts "should err on the side of severity". But with the number of

arrests in the Midlands now approaching 700, I'll be asking the

Environment Secretary and Meriden MP, Caroline Spelman, and the

leader of Staffordshire County Council, Philip Atkins, how far

politicians should get involved. But let's hear first from our

reporter Bob Hockenhull. He was joined by Margot James at a sitting

The justice system is under pressure like never before after

this summer's riots. Not just from the volume of defendants - in the

West Midlands there have been 654 arrests - but also from the need to

be seen to be tough on the rioters. On the evening of August 8th, I was

out here in the centre of Birmingham reporting for Midlands

Today. This area was teeming with gangs looking for shops to smash

and loot. And within hours the police were rounding up suspects

for the courts to deal with. Under pressure to deliver speedy justice,

magistrates sat through the night passing sentence, their efforts

winning praise in the Deputy Prime Minister's speech at the Liberal

Democrat conference in the city last month. Here in Birmingham, the

community stick together in the face of disorder and tragedy. Our

emergency services, police and courts all rose to the challenge.

But have some magistrates and judges gone too far by imposing

sentences that are too harsh? As, the Royal Courts of Justice began

hearing appeals from some of those convicted, the Chairman of the

Magistrates Association was in Birmingham this week. I don't think

there is evidence to suggest magistrates are coming down very

hard but the harm caused by a single case of theft and burglary

might be minimal -- two or �300 to the shopkeeper. But the harm caused

to two or three single events in harmony could be quite significant.

There are still plenty of suspects to come before the courts. Fewer

than a quarter of those arrested in the West Midlands have been

sentenced for crimes. Crimes that shocked us all. Certainly in my

lifetime I don't think I've been as shocked and ashamed by something in

this country. Days after the riots, the Conservative MP for Stourbridge,

Margot James, called on magistrates and judges to err on the side of

severity when dealing with offenders. Do you maintain your

hardline stand? I was just saying in scenes of incredible, aggressive

violence, that sentencing should have swayed towards severity.

Birmingham Magistrates is expecting another influx of riot-related

cases next week. The MP has kept a keen eye on how the rioters have

been dealt with. Why should people think they can threaten without

regard to life or limb and go as a mob to take what is not theirs.

That is quite wrong and should result in a custodial sentence, in

my view. She wants to ensure any pressure felt by the courts or

prisons due to the high volume of offenders doesn't lead to leniency.

This historic court in Stafford heard its first case in 1798.

Justice was dispensed from here for nearly two centuries until the last

case on Thursday July 25 in 1991. Twenty years after it closed, the

legal system here in the Midlands is facing unprecedented demands -

313 of those arrested after the riots in this region are still on

bail while decisions are made over whether to charge them. The prison

population is already reaching record highs. But with many more

arrests anticipated, the clamour for heavy sentences is not expected

In a moment I will be talking to some of our guests but let us begin

with the riots. In view of what many people see as the severity of

the sentences handed down, how comfortable are you with the

involvement of politicians? I think people want to see the offenders

properly punished for the damage they did to the communities. We

need to respect the independence of the judiciary. It is very important.

I pay tribute to the magistrates who made a Supreme effort to

expedite the carrot -- cases quickly. But I do not think it is

for politicians to interfere with the workings of the judiciary.

it has been said that there have been tragic offenders also. It is

hard on someone who, one moment in their lives which they can regret

for the rest of their Dave's, has a serious criminal record? Many of

them are repeat offenders and it tells all of us that we need to

look at precisely how we deal with offenders and how we prevent

reoffending. That is a challenge to all of us in society because many

of them were children with parents and families. It is for all of us

to see what we can do to stop this happening again. Are you

comfortable with the role politicians have played? We are not

a police state in this country and we have great communities across

the West Midlands. To do policing by consent, we have to respect

other people's property and if people break the law, they should

expect the full hand of the law. Some senior Tories have compared

the political leadership outside London, including colleagues of

yours who chaired areas of the local authorities, and they have

compared favourably with other areas. I think we have the lead on

certain projects across the West Midlands. Locally, we are what the

public elect. High-speed rail now. We spoke about this and there was a

great consensus, we thought, that a string of your party colleagues and

local authorities agreed but people are now coming out against it.

is based on consensus between the main parties about the need for

investment in the infrastructure. When it comes down to the detail,

often there Rob problems. It is important to point out that high-

speed rail is needed to address capacity problems as there is no

spare capacity on the West Coast Main Line and that holds the West

Midlands back. It would bring 40,000 jobs to our economy. As a

constituency MP through whose constituency it goes, I am there to

help my constituents mitigate the impact when it goes ahead. What do

you say, as one of the leaders of the authority who came out against

it? From Staffordshire's point of view, because we looked at the

effect of Staffordshire also, at the key thing is... But can you

look at it in isolation? There is certainly an issue about capacity

on the west coast main line and getting people around the country

but we have to capture the maximum economic advantage for the West

Midlands, minimise the environmental dire -- damage and

make sure that local residents voices are heard because it will

affect some people quite dramatically. We hear all the

voices from the opposition. Your side of the argument is being lost,

isn't it? The government had to remain neutral to the consul --

during the consultation... Birmingham and Solihull Chambers of

Commerce have come out and supported this because they know

the capacity constraints on our rail network adversely affect

business. People are struggling to pay petrol costs so the question

for the government is, we have to create more capacity and a Jenny

time of 31 minutes to Birmingham from London would have an important

impact. -- Eid journey. Moving on to the keynote speech this

afternoon. You have a particular message about economic growth for

rural areas. What will you say? want to support growth in the rural

economy because part of the reach - - reason we were more severely

affected during the recession was the imbalance in our economy. So,

in my department we are looking hard to invest in rural areas.

there been lots of new buildings going up? You campaign for the

Meriden gap and now there is a suspicion your party will open the

floodgates. The most important thing is to make sure rural areas

are not disadvantaged by a lack of access to the internet or mobile

phone use so the government is making millions of pounds available

for rural broad band and change the use of existing buildings. You are

a farmer in your spare time. What do you make of that? There are

great opportunities coming out. Super-fast broadband is key to

opening up the countryside to business is able to work from home

and the like. The countryside can offer a lot to the economy and the

economy is our number one priority. If the private sector grows and

makes profit, they can be taxed and provide services we all wish to see

for our elderly, children etc. have the ear of the Environment

Secretary, what would you like to see in the speech? Any opportunity

to help grow the rural economy is very welcome. Well that is a

priority. We need to support British farming and sustainability.

Thank you both for being here with So, a summer that will live long in

the memory in the Midlands for the worst of reasons - riots, looting,

and the deaths of three young men. And yet, paradoxically, these

terrible events may have taken David Cameron onto surprisingly

comfortable political ground by strengthening his arguments in

support of the Big Society to repair "broken Britain". One of his

formative experiences came during a visit to Balsall Heath in

Birmingham four years ago, when he stayed overnight with a local

family. Susana Mendonca has revisited the area to see what

difference the idea of a Big Meet Abdullah, his wife Shahida,

mother Safia, and his kids. Four years ago, they had an unusual

house guest. Hello. How are you? David Cameron came here to find out

how Balsall Heath's community has been helping itself. There was a

problem with drugs and prostitution. The streets were controlled by drug

dealers. That is what the neighbourhood used to be like until

residents started patrolling the streets. When David Cameron came

here he helped clear the car-park up and he found a needle. We were

trying to encourage him to think about the broken society we are

living in, we feel, and how it can be mended. Does the idea of the Big

Society come in? The forum's work got to mention that his party

speech in -- last year. Local residents were fed up with pimps

and gangs so they set up street patrols to clear them out and

turned what was a no-go zone into a desirable place to live. It has

become a better neighbourhood for one pensioner who gets help after

having an eye operation. They look after us old people, help us out.

They not at our door to see if we are all right. But building this

Big Society idea costs money. The Balshall Heath Forum needs as much

as �300,000 the year. The forum used to get �60,000 of that from

Birmingham City Council. Funding has dried up so it's challenge is

to survive without government cash. It is getting advice from big

business. The push is to recognise that businesses cannot shy away

from it. They are a massive part of this community and they have to

work with the forum. But some volunteers, welcoming the deputy

leader of the city council this week, worry that businesses won't

be wiling to give. Shabana who's youth team checked on elderly

residents during the summer riots, says the Big Society won't work

without government funding. Communities need to be more active

and help each other do community work. The community always needs

that support. There is only so much we can do. Society has never been

able to exist without the voluntary sector and the face sector making a

contribution. Statutory authorities cannot deliver everything that

makes society tick. Back in the House where David Cammie spent his

first night, I hear how the biz Society is working. He needs to see

the Big Society in action. Who does his daughter want to see? We would

like him to bring Florence. They may only have to wait until next

spring when the Tory conference heads back to Brighton. And BBC WM

listeners can keep up-to-date with political developments in

Birmingham and the Black Country with Susana throughout the week.

Now, it's a safe bet looting and rioting would have no place in the

local communities envisaged by the MP who has written the book on the

"Big Society". During the week, I caught up with its author, Jesse

Norman, the Conservative MP for Hereford and South Herefordshire,

on the stage of Hereford's Courtyard Theatre, during a break

in a business conference that was If I were to challenge you to write

another chapter in this book to take account of the summer riots,

what do you think would be the main principles we could expect to see?

It was the tremendous sense of lack of purpose and youth unemployment,

as well as a kind of gang culture. All of those aspects have to be

brought into play. It would take the same principles we have already

in play and play them out in the context of the riots with all their

causes and effects. You say that much of this thinking has its

origin with people like Edmund Burke and the aftermath of the

French Revolution. Some of the language after that riots was

apocalyptic. Do you see a connection with the origins of that

idea and social difficulties today? Yes, we have the highest level of

drug abuse in almost every area of Europe. We have high levels of

teenage pregnancy, high levels of social deprivation in key parts of

our cities. We have to engage in this. We have to think outside the

political box and not turn to the state as the only source of support

for these people. We have to look at ways they can help themselves

and which government can engage with those institutions that can do

the best job of people -- putting people back on their feet. Some

commentators say that There are new people being appointed into jobs in

lope -- local authorities to come walk the -- co-ordinate the

activities of the voluntary sector so it is having the opposite

effect? Yours have people pushing more power down to local

authorities and institutions. Out of the diversity comes innovation

and energy. The real question for the Big Society is whether it can

change the political terms of debate over the next two or three

elections. What the Labour Party has been saying over the last year

is moving from hostility to a high degree of embracing the conclusions.

Part of the debate about the Big Society is that it is not a Big

Society but a big excuse for cutting public spending.

Conservative Party has been thinking about these issues and

talking about them for at least five years. It wasn't a secret that,

with the level of economic crisis we have been in, measures to curb

public spending would have to happen. The real question is

whether it can trigger local energy and release these institutions