11/12/2015 The Week in Parliament

Hello and welcome to the Week In Parliament.

As world leaders talked at the United Nations climate change

summit, homeowners in the North of England knew

More than one month's rain fell in one day.

Does the Secretary of State agree that extreme weather events are,

unfortunately, increasingly a feature of British weather?

Another month, another clash between the Commons and the Lords.

One MP is not sending peers any Christmas cards.

The super-annuated, unelected, unaccountable panjandrums

in the House of Lords have told us what the elected house should be

doing when we have a settled view on it.

And bring on the reserve team. It was deputy day at PMQs.

Labour's deputy mocks the Prime Minister's European talks.

He has been jetting all over the place.

No wonder we had to buy him his own aeroplane.

The good news is, we have a party leader who is respected abroad.

They may be connected. They may not.

As homeowners mounted a huge clean-up operation in large parts

of Cumbria, Lancashire and the Scottish borders,

the subject of climate change came in for detailed discussion

It was hard not to believe weather patterns were changing,

as parts of Cumbria suffered particularly at the hands

It was the third time in the space of a decade that the county had

Worst hit was the city of Carlisle, where pictures of stranded

householders rescued from flooded homes were numerous.

A road in the heart of the Lake District was smashed

The Prime Minister visited some of the stricken parts of the county.

In the Commons, the extent of the flooding was spelled out.

There is a mark on the bridge in Carlisle showing the flood

The 2005 flood was half a metre higher than 1853,

which was the highest on record until then.

This flood was half a metre high again.

Does this Secretary of State agree that extreme weather events

are unfortunately, increasingly a picture of British weather,

and that government policy as to adapt,

And the Honourable lady is absolutely right

about the extreme weather patterns we are

As we say, it is consistent with the trends we are seeing,

Climate change is factored in to all the modelling work

Insurance claims should be met speedily and not in six

People need them now and not in six or nine months' time.

These people need urgent help, now, so will be Chancellor,

today, give the house a guarantee that people will receive the help

I can, today, announce a ?50 million fund

for families and businesses affected in the area.

This will be administered by the local

authorities, to avoid some of the administrative troubles

And when it comes to rebuilding the infrastructure

of Cumbria and Lancashire and other areas affected,

we are assessing, now, the damage to the flood defences

and the damage to the roads, and funds will be made available.

The flooding was also concerning peers.

By declaring an interest, as a Cumbrian, would my honourable

friend agree that the priority must first

so unfortunately and unhappily and disastrously affected,

and secondly, to make sure that any additional

rain that is threatened doesn't actually exacerbate the existing

We are looking at a potential scheme to reduce the risk

of flooding in Kendal, but it is at an early

My Lords, within the six-year programme,

the proposed Kendal scheme is scheduled for 2021.

We are considering, with other funding

partners, how we can bring this scheme forward.

Could the Minister tell us what cognizance is taken

by the government of the stochastic modelling performed by the insurance

industry and how many one in 100- year events it takes for it to cease

My Lords, I am sure the right reverend gentleman

will appreciate that this is probably a matter for God,

because every time we have tried to predict,

Lady Williams with the last word, for now, on the floods.

Another head-on clash between the Commons and the Lords

MPs on Tuesday night said a decisive no to the plans of the Lords

to allow 16 and 17-year-olds to vote in the referendum on

It is the policy of the opposition parties to bring Britain's voting

And Labour peers have indicated they will not accept the decision

At the end of October, the two Houses of Parliament clashed

over cuts to tax credits, with peers blocking

That led to a review being ordered into how the Lords operates.

In a moment, we will be analysing what has been an eventful term

in the Lords, with a couple of experts.

First, we can remind ourselves of Tuesday's debate in the Commons

There are understandable sensitivities surrounding

Making such a fundamental change to the franchise for this vote

alone, but not for others, would, inevitably and,

perhaps, justifiably,lead to accusations of trying to fix

the franchise in favour of either the remain or the leave campaign.

That is why we have chosen to stick with the tried and tested proven

If it is good enough for choosing the government of this country,

then surely it is good enough for the

And we should not jiggle around with it for a one-off,

This actually is a constitutional outrage that the super-annuated,

unelected, unaccountable panjandrums

in the House of Lords have told us what the elected house should be

doing when we have a settled view on it.

They should learn their place. They must be subservient

to the elected house and it is high time we had House of Lords reform.

It is 40 years since this issue was voted on this country.

Major constitutional referenda are a once-in-a-generation

choice - perhaps a once-in-a-lifetime choice

about the country's future direction.

It is that the young people of this country deserve a say

in the decision which will chart our country's future.

As a society, an explicit comment that we do not feel

16 and 17-year-olds are fully formed because, if we did,

we would not suggest they had to stay in education.

We would not suggest that they cannot book

We would not suggest that they have not

even allowed to buy their sparklers at

What we have found in Scotland, and the evidence backs

it up, is that, by giving the franchise to 16

and 17-year-olds, they remain engaged in the political process

Whilst the rest of the UK may have had low numbers in Westminster

elections, we had a much higher, above 70%, in Scotland.

How long will it be before young people start

What worries me is when a 1617 -year-old remains that.

How long will it be before young people start

And the last thing we need is more young people becoming militants.

But many of my colleagues have called for more

They have opinions, they want to be heard.

And at the end of that debate, MPs voted 303 to 253 to reject

the decision of the Lords, so not lowering the referendum

But is that the end of the matter? Or could peers keep the issue going?

The Commons Speaker had told MPs that the Lords position involved

what is termed financial privilege .

In other words, there is a cost to the taxpayer and so it not

is something the Lords should have any say over.

So, does this increase the tension between the Commons and the Lords?

I am joined in the studio now by the BBC's parliamentary

correspondent Sean Curran and by Professor Meg Russell

from the Constitution Unit. Welcome to the programme.

Starting with you, Professor Russell, the government

used this phrase, "financial privilege".

Does this boil down to really just a device to muzzle

One of the things which people mistake is where the claim

It is not actually a claim by the government, it is a claim

The decision as to whether a Lords amendment is subjected to financial

privilege actually comes from the Commons' clerks

and the Commons' Speaker, not from ministers.

Any amendment which is going to cost a significant

amount of money will receive a response that financial

That can then be claimed by the Commons when

rejecting the amendment, with an implication that the Lords

But it is very, very blurry, both in terms of the definitions

and of what the Lords can do in response.

Sean Curran, it looks like it is going to happen on Monday

night - the issue is going to go back to the Lords.

What do you anticipate happening on Monday?

Well, as Meg said, there is, kind of, a convention,

an unwritten rule, to say that, once we have

had this financial privilege invoked, then the Lords should back

Actually, because the Commons have rejected the amendment and we have

had this ruling of financial privilege from the Commons' Speaker,

the Lords cannot simply reinsert the original proposal,

to give 16 and 17-year-olds the vote, but they can they can

to give 16 and 17-year-olds the vote, but they can propose

something called an Amendment In Lieu, which is what Labour

They are going to argue that they can come up

with a low-cost alternative, while getting more or

less the same thing - 16-year-olds being able to take part

in the referendum - and they hope this will get

round the rules on financial privilege.

So, what we will have is another round

of parliamentary ping-pong, where legislation is batted from one

end of the Houses of Parliament to the other.

We know that the government is braced for this,

because we had an announcement on Thursday from Chris Grayling,

the Leader of the Commons, that time is being put

into the parliamentary schedule next week for the House of Commons

So, it could go on for a couple more days.

We are certainly in for a bit of a clash.

That ended with Lord Strathclyde being told to make a review of how

the Lords operates, but what can he actually

What do you think Lord Strathclyde could possibly come up with?

It ended with that and the government backing down

That was slightly ironic, given that they said how outrageous

it was that the House of Lords should intervene and so on.

But in terms of the Strathclyde review, I think it is quite tricky

He is very canny and he knows the House of Lords extremely

well, but there are a number of issues here.

There is the financial issue, which obviously touches on that one.

There is also the whole question of delegated

legislation and whether the Lords should retain its veto.

To really do anything in a thoroughly-definitive way

requires the government to legislate.

And getting legislation through would be very difficult.

It would be difficult in the Lords, obviously, but actually,

also very difficult in the Commons, because

there would be an inclination by MPs to load any bill with amendments,

to try and introduce wider issues of Lords reform.

So, I think they are going to want to stay away from that

and the ultimate answer is some kind of

cross-party agreement on where the conventions work.

Do you think the nub of all this, Sean Curran, is actually

that the Conservatives do not have a majority in the House

of Lords and they are not used to that

and that really is a source of incredible irritation

Well, of course, for years, governments are always

being challenged and defeated by the House of Lords,

because members of the House of Lords will say, "It is our

job to scrutinise legislation and propose changes

and that is something which cuts across party

But, of course, the Conservatives have been

As I say, almost 25 defeats a year during the coalition

They have had 23 defeats just since May,

so they are suffering a lot of defeats in the Lords

and it is clear that ministers are getting frustrated.

Now, particularly on the votes at 16 and 17, there is definitely

a feeling that they think Labour and the

Liberal Democrats are trying to push

forward a policy and using unelected peers to do it.

But the coalition issues here about how the House of Lords

should be made up, there is no fundamental agreement.

Again, I think this is a matter of the parties sitting down

and agreeing something amongst themselves about

how seats should be shared out in the House of Lords.

Because it is very much a movable feast.

We hear claims over the tax credit thing

that there would be enormous numbers of new Conservative peers put in,

which is something that Cameron could, in theory,

do, even though everybody thinks it would be

I think there is a deal to be struck here on the only

powers, on the one hand, and calming it down,

on the side of the Opposition and some agreement on the principles

of composition coming from the Prime Minister

That may just stabilise the situation.

Are you optimistic, looking to the future

going into the New Year or do you think it is just going to be

It is always hard to be optimistic with

It is something which has been debated

not just through the whole of the 20th

century, but going back centuries before that.

It is always going to be tricky, but they think there is an agreement

that could be forged here and Lord Strathclyde,

as I said, is canny and I hope that he

may be starting to think through some of this stuff.

Because he does not want to see this descending into chaos and,

potentially, the end of the House of Lords,

with enormous difficulties for the government.

Both of you, thank you very much for joining me

Some thoughts on the future of the Lords.

Lord Strathclyde's report is expected soon.

Now hot foot from the watery north of England, David Cameron

was quickly away from Westminster again, when he left for talks

with the President and Prime Minister of Romania.

It was the latest stop-off on David Cameron's European tour,

as he attempts to win support for an improved British deal

as a member of the EU, with that in-out referendum

The Prime Minister's absence meant it was deputies day

For Labour, Angela Eagle focused on those renegotiations.

Mr Speaker, I see that the Prime Minister can't be with us

to answer questions today, because he is visiting Poland

and Romania, the latest leg his seemingly endless

He's been jetting all over the place.

No wonder we had to buy him his own aeroplane.

So can the Chancellor tell us, please, how is it all

Well, the good news is we have a party leader

who is respected abroad.

The Prime Minister is in central and Eastern Europe because we are

fighting for a better deal for Britain, something that never

would have happened if there had been a Labour government.

Well, Mr Speaker, I have to tell him that many of his own

backbenchers are pretty unimpressed with how it's going so far.

Given that the Prime Minister has pre-resigned, does he really aspired

to be Britain's first post EU Prime Minister?

I'm not sure I would be quoting the views of backbenchers

if I was speaking for the Labour Party at the moment.

parties are trying to get momentum, they are trying to get rid of it.

We are fighting for a good deal for Britain in Europe.

Since he didn't answer the question about his own

prime ministerial activities, he might be more willing to answer

something about somebody a few places down from him on the bench,

A reference to the Home Secretary Theresa May.

Mr Speaker, if he won't listen, if he

won't listen to the doubts of his own backbenchers,

perhaps he will listen to someone who has written

Mr Speaker, it's from Donald of Brussels.

Meaning Donald Tusk, president of the European Council.

And he writes, "Uncertainty about the future of the UK

in the European Union is a destabilising factor."

Well, since the Conservative Party announced its

policy on the referendum, we have received the lion's share

of investment into Europe, here in this

George Osborne and Angela Eagle exchanging blows.

And now a look at some of the other stories inside Parliament this week.

The Justice Secretary Michael Gove has said the government will move

as quickly as it can to drop criminal courts charges.

The charges were introduced by his predecessor Chris Grayling,

but magistrates had strongly criticised them.

If the charge has been repealed by primary legislation,

why is it still being posed up to Christmas?

Will be charges imposed be remitted, and the magistrates who resigned

in protest be reinstated, and will he tell us the cost

of the debacle, and how much it adds to the ?15 million he has already

wasted on privatisation of fine collection,

We moved as expeditiously as possible, in order

to suspend the charge, and the best legal advice available

to the Department suggested that this was the most

effective way of relieving magistrates of the obligation

Interesting to watch, but is it fair to have them

Thousands of exotic creatures, such as meerkats, are now being kept

They are all available on the internet, but MPs say

The pet food manufacturers association estimate

that the exotic pet population in the UK, that includes fish,

has now got to the total of 42 million, and

Indeed, a number of reptiles and amphibians alone kept in this

country is now anywhere between two and 7 million.

Primates are highly intelligent mammals, with a range

That would suggest that one of the drivers here

is that often people to see exotics as cute and cuddly stop far too

Most people should stick to collecting the stuffed toys

on offer from Comparethemarket, and should steer clear

The not-for-profit organisation has been with us for over 30 years,

but privatisation of the channel is coming.

Peers fear what we could end up watching.

Does the noble Baroness, the Minister not agree

that the privatisation of Channel 4 would

mean a major reduction in this distinctive and impressive news

How it is possible that a great Thatcherite success is now under

threat, one which supports more than 350 independent production

companies annually, and is now under threat of what looks

like the equivalent of a one-off car-boot

Channel 4 is not under threat, it has an important remit.

It had to deliver innovative, experimental and distinctive

content, that appears to a device society,

and looking at all the options we would obviously have

If you go down to the woods today, will they still be there?

Ancient woodlands are disappearing, says the Woodland Trust,

as pylons, housing estates and roads are constructed.

Their role in raising the human spirit

It's been estimated that some 28,000 hectares

of ancient woodland has been lost since 1930s.

You know, soon, there will be none of

I mean, that is so minuscule, isn't it?

And how quickly could all that be whittled away?

From the outset, if we lose the ancient woodland that we have

left, they are gone for ever, and others

?50 million, over the past five years, in forestry.

Private woodland owners continue to be motivated to bring unmanaged

and underused woodlands back into management.

With Syria dominating the political agenda,

the current turmoil in Libya has attracted less political attention,

but the subject of Britain's relationship with Libya led

to a rare return to Parliament by Tony Blair.

The former Prime Minister was facing the questions of the Foreign Affairs

On the issue, only in a busy, you can't make any judgments,

because you weren't in government in 2011, but a very simple question.

Knowing what you know now, do you think that Libya

is in a better or worse place as a result of the 2011

intervention? Look.

You've got to put the counterfactual always.

What would have happened if we hadn't?

The Libyan people were not going to accept the continuation

You know, look, this again goes to a wider

arguments, where you often find people saying, "Look,

wouldn't it just be better if we dealt with the dictators?"

You know, at least when we had Assad there, and Saddam is there,

and Gaddafi there, and I don't know, Ben Ali there, we knew

what we were dealing with, and I completely understand that

I think what the Arab Spring shows you is that

however much we may want to have dealt with those people,

the populations of these countries are not going to tolerate them,

and in particular they are not going to

tolerate a tiny group of people, often unrepresentative

of the majority in the country, running the country.

I can tell you, today, Libya is a real security problem,

a security problem, actually, for us,

I don't think you can make the judgment as to

whether it would be better if we hadn't intervened,

because then you have to say, well, how would that

have then played out as Gaddafi tried to cling on to power,

And you can look at Syria today, where we

Time now for a look at some of the more offbeat events

in the political world in the last week.

No date yet for the EU referendum but we do no date for the

referendum... We know where the results will be announced, the

commission has opted for Manchester. Labour's Ed Balls lest his seat at

the election. He has to beat Ofcom edition from people like Prime

Minister's wife Samantha Cameron. From's comments about the Muslim

race has public call for him to be banned. A Scottish senate? A Labour

peer is calling for a second chamber in Edinburgh. He said it could be

housed in the old school once mooted for the Scottish parliament. Jeremy

Corbyn's has won this award for the sixth time. Honourable mentions go

to the SMB Stewart McDonald. Find out what happens

when the Commons and the Lords resume their battle

over the voting age. Joanna Shinn will be

here with Monday In Parliament But for now, from me,

Keith Macdougall, goodbye.