Browse content similar to 02/02/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tonight on This Week: Money, money, money, must be funny, in the rich | :00:16. | :00:19. | |
man's world. As Britain's most infamous banker, Mr Fred Goodwin, | :00:19. | :00:22. | |
keeps his pension but loses his knighthood, and his replacement, | :00:22. | :00:25. | |
RBS boss Stephen Hester, is forced to turn down his �1 million bonus, | :00:25. | :00:35. | |
:00:35. | :00:37. | ||
are politicians playing a dangerous game? If I had a little money... | :00:37. | :00:40. | |
The FT's top woman, and one of the few people who predicted the | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
financial crash, Gillian Tett, takes a look at the rich man's | :00:43. | :00:53. | |
:00:53. | :00:53. | ||
world. This week I've been basher banker but beneath the escape | :00:53. | :00:58. | |
quoting -- scapegoating, how do Government divide up resources and | :00:58. | :01:01. | |
create a system that people think is fair? | :01:01. | :01:04. | |
There are big bucks flying around this weekend, as America prepares | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
for the Super Bowl, the BBC's Anita Anand gets kitted out and checks | :01:07. | :01:16. | |
out Cameron's big-game tactics on Europe. Times have got ugly on the | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
Westminster gridiron, with both leaders padding up, heads down and | :01:20. | :01:30. | |
:01:30. | :01:31. | ||
barging one another, with full force. | :01:32. | :01:37. | |
Money doesn't necessarily keep the blues away. Former Blair spin | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
doctor Alastair Campbell says it's time for politicians to come clean | :01:40. | :01:45. | |
on the issue of depression. might be money, money, money for | :01:45. | :01:51. | |
some, but if it is happiness you are after, never forget money can't | :01:51. | :01:59. | |
buy you love. Meed ye- and mental health campaigner Ruby Wax is | :01:59. | :02:09. | |
:02:09. | :02:11. | ||
spreading the word. In a This Week world. | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
Evening all. Welcome to This Week, the show that's proof beyond | :02:14. | :02:17. | |
peradventure that you don't need a large performance-related bonus or | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
a knighthood for banking services to be held in total contempt by the | :02:20. | :02:29. | |
You just have to follow Question Time every Thursday night. Think of | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
us as a diversion from reality, like politicians whipping up a | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
lynch mob to strip one banker of his knighthood and another of his | :02:35. | :02:41. | |
bonus. Yes, interest rates may be rock bottom, the pound has lost a | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
quarter of its value, the Bank of England is printing money like | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
there is no tomorrow, the Government is running massive | :02:49. | :02:54. | |
deficits, and still there is no growth in the economy. But at least | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
Fred "The Shred" has lost his knighthood and Stephen Hester isn't | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
getting his bonus. Talk about bread and circuses. The Romans have | :03:03. | :03:10. | |
nothing on our little Caesars. We also had London MP David Lammy's | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
claim that the people who trashed our cities last summer might have | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
shown more restraint if only their parents had been free to spank them | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
when they were toddlers. Interesting, David. Then again, Mr | :03:22. | :03:24. | |
Lammy was the Celebrity Mastermind contestant who thought Marie | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
Antoinette won the Nobel Prize for Physics in 1903. And that Henry | :03:27. | :03:35. | |
VIII was succeeded by Henry VII! LAUGHTER Google it if you don't | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
believe me. Speaking of those whose minds go blank as soon as they're | :03:39. | :03:42. | |
asked a simple question, I'm joined on the sofa tonight by two of | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
Westminster's weakest links - the Dusty Bin and "bit of bully" of | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
late night political chat. I speak, of course, of Michael Portillo and | :03:49. | :03:55. | |
Alastair Campbell. Good evening to you both. Good evening. Michael, | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
your moment of the week. I've blanked. No, the sending of Prince | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
William to the Falklands I think, because it is immensely symbolic, | :04:03. | :04:09. | |
that here we are at the 30th anniversary of the war. There is | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
argy-bargy in the South Atlantic over the oil and the continuing | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
Argentine claim to the islands. I think the British Government | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
response is wonderfully robust. We are sending a member of the Royal | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
Family there. We are putting up two fingers to Argentina. We are saying | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
these people are entitled to self dem nation. Having fought a war for | :04:28. | :04:33. | |
them 30 years ago there is simply no question even of debating the | :04:33. | :04:39. | |
sovereignty of these islands. more important than William we are | :04:39. | :04:49. | |
:04:49. | :04:53. | ||
sending a �1 billion ship, which apparently can locate 300 incoming | :04:53. | :04:58. | |
at once. This boat, it is actually a ship. You know what I mean. | :04:58. | :05:08. | |
:05:08. | :05:10. | ||
moved on since the 30 years since. I'm always wary about the in vun | :05:10. | :05:16. | |
raability of ships. Alastair, your moment. It was the moment when I | :05:16. | :05:21. | |
thought Ed Miliband had a direct hit on David Cameron, who looked | :05:21. | :05:23. | |
extremely uncomfortable. You are talking about Tuesday afternoon? | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
The Europe debate and his line that a veto is not for life it is just | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
for Christmas. I always thought the veto was a ridiculous thing. We are | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
going to talk about it later. don't think David Cameron thought | :05:36. | :05:43. | |
it through and he is now having to backtrack and back-pedal and Ed is | :05:43. | :05:50. | |
more confident, and I think he him at PMQs as well. It was his best | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
performance to date as Labour leader. | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
Bankers - doncha just love em'? Where would we be without them? | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
Possibly up to �1 trillion better off for starters. But with the | :05:59. | :06:01. | |
defenestration of Fred Goodwin and his knighthood, have we finally got | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
our man, or are their other guilty men who appeased an out-of-control | :06:04. | :06:06. | |
financial sector, who should be wary of pitchfork-wielding | :06:06. | :06:16. | |
:06:16. | :06:17. | ||
villagers bent on retribution? And probably a bit of redistribution as | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
well! And has society got what it takes to deal with the need to play | :06:21. | :06:23. | |
the blame game? The woman who spotted the crash coming, US | :06:24. | :06:26. | |
managing editor of the Financial Times, Gillian Tett, is here with | :06:26. | :06:36. | |
:06:36. | :06:49. | ||
The theme of This Week has been bash a banker. Firstly Stephen | :06:49. | :06:55. | |
Hester of RBS was forced to give back his bonus and then Sir Fred | :06:55. | :07:00. | |
Goodwin became plain old Mr Goodwin. It is not equivalent of the bankers | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
being put in the stocks as they were in the Middle Ages, but | :07:04. | :07:07. | |
politicians of every stripe have been queuing up to pelt words at | :07:07. | :07:11. | |
the bankers. But is it fair to be bashing bankers in this way? If you | :07:11. | :07:17. | |
talk to people working in finance many say no, and many in business | :07:17. | :07:25. | |
say no. Some said lay off the politicians - lay off the bankers | :07:25. | :07:32. | |
for a bit. They said the bankers had contributed to the crisis but | :07:32. | :07:39. | |
it was rating agencies, the public, and they should share the blame. | :07:39. | :07:42. | |
There are lots of people who say we shouldn't let the bankers off the | :07:42. | :07:46. | |
hook, because the reality is that although they weren't the only ones | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
who created the crisis, they certainly got richer than many | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
other people as a result. But perhaps the really interesting | :07:53. | :07:58. | |
question to ask is why this war of words is erupting now. Is the | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
answer is behind this battle about banking there's a fight for | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
resources going on, in particular what people are asking is how are | :08:05. | :08:10. | |
they going to divide Apple pie when that pie is stagnant, if not | :08:10. | :08:17. | |
shrinking? Maybe it is not entirely fair to blame Sir Fred or now plain | :08:17. | :08:21. | |
old Mr Goodwin for the problems. But the reality is that people are | :08:21. | :08:28. | |
angry and they are looking for somebody to blame. As economys ale | :08:28. | :08:33. | |
-- ail this year, the sense of anger and finger pointing is likely | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
to rise. The question for politicians and all of us is once | :08:37. | :08:47. | |
:08:47. | :08:47. | ||
we get wrond the finger pointing can we actually find a fix? That | :08:47. | :08:52. | |
was Gillian Tett. Welcome to This Week. Let me begin with a yes, no. | :08:52. | :08:58. | |
Was it right that Mr Goodwin as he is now was stripped of his | :08:58. | :09:06. | |
knighthood? Alastair Campbell. Totally relevant. Irrelevant? | :09:06. | :09:11. | |
Totally relevant. The game was yes or no. As a politician I would have | :09:11. | :09:17. | |
created a bit of a fuss. But does it matter? Not really. Mike Snell | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
Yes. I would agree with Alastair but on balance I would say yes. It | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
is not key issue though. Waut it right that Stephen Hester should | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
effectively have been bullied by politicians and public opinion, the | :09:29. | :09:34. | |
threat of a vote in Parliament as well, into giving up his �1 million | :09:34. | :09:40. | |
bonus? No. Was it right that he didn't take the whole of his bonus? | :09:40. | :09:46. | |
Yes. Was it right that he was bullied? No. I will Just Say No. | :09:46. | :09:51. | |
I'll play the game. You are very good. I want to come back next year. | :09:51. | :09:58. | |
I don't. I'm on materialier one. Sorry Andrew. And just to be boring, | :09:58. | :10:03. | |
I would say no as well. He was brought in to do a difficult job. | :10:03. | :10:06. | |
He's done it April well and changing the rules halfway through | :10:06. | :10:11. | |
his contract is not good. And not for the first time the This Week | :10:11. | :10:16. | |
panel is all over the place. Politicians, they may play to the | :10:16. | :10:22. | |
public at times, and perhaps they did with the Hester bonus, but they | :10:22. | :10:27. | |
can't ignore public opinion about bankers and public opinion about | :10:27. | :10:32. | |
bangers remains very strong. Even as 2008 disappears into history. | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
Absolutely. People are angry. I think there are two factors here. | :10:36. | :10:39. | |
Firstly they are angry because there hasn't been a sense of | :10:39. | :10:47. | |
closure. You've, in the sense that you've seen people put into prison | :10:47. | :10:54. | |
and if you believe in capitalism you should not only be rewarded for | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
success but suffer the consequence of failure. The Americans are | :10:58. | :11:04. | |
better at that. They certainly are. In the savings and loans crisis, | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
2,000 people have been prosecuted or put into jail. How many have we | :11:08. | :11:14. | |
had in Britain? Hardly any. And there's been no closure, no sengs | :11:14. | :11:19. | |
of resolution. The public, if you look at Iraq, a lot of people are | :11:19. | :11:24. | |
angry about Iraq There is the Chilcot Inquiry. Phone hacking, | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
there is the Leveson Inquiry. And on banking, are we seriously saying | :11:29. | :11:36. | |
that because Fred Goodwin lost his knighthood that's the end of it? | :11:36. | :11:42. | |
The rectors are in denial. The politicians are in -- the reactors | :11:42. | :11:47. | |
are in denial. The politicians are in denial. I haven't seen any of | :11:47. | :11:56. | |
them up before a it?-style inquiry where they are forced to account | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
for themselves. You think they still don't get it. And they don't | :11:59. | :12:03. | |
get the basic economics. The reason they are making huge profits is | :12:03. | :12:09. | |
that they are undercapitalised. The taxpayer subsidised them. Therefore | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
because their profits are artificial, their bonuses ought to | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
be trimmed back to the level that would be payable if their profits | :12:16. | :12:21. | |
represented the amount of capital they would need to maintain. The I | :12:21. | :12:27. | |
suspect their proof whites be zero or below. You mix with these major | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
bankers. You've just come from Davos. Do they really still note | :12:30. | :12:36. | |
get it? Here is an interesting thing. Once a year the World | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
Economic Forum asks the attendees what is the biggest thing that will | :12:40. | :12:45. | |
pose a threat to global stability this year. This year for the first | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
time they said income disparities, inequality and problems with | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
inequity. They are getting scared. Did they collect another �5 million | :12:54. | :12:59. | |
bonus? They've seen Occupy Wall Street, the demonstrations in St | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
Paul's. The Arab Spring, tangible evidence of the degree to which | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
these pressures are starting to essentially create instability. | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
think that's a good thing. I think Michael is right, they've got | :13:10. | :13:14. | |
themselves into the mind set that part of their package is a multi- | :13:14. | :13:20. | |
million pound bonus. If it is not deserved they don't get it. It is | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
slowly fall into place that there is such a thing as public service, | :13:23. | :13:27. | |
even in the private sector, and that you can get very well paid, | :13:27. | :13:32. | |
did you a good job but you stop taking these ludicrous telephone | :13:32. | :13:36. | |
numbers at the end of the year as a matter of course. The people | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
providing the capital, the shareholders have been driven into | :13:39. | :13:42. | |
poverty. It's a small bunch of employers who are making off with | :13:43. | :13:49. | |
all the money. Who haven't missed a penny of their own money. I haven't | :13:49. | :13:55. | |
seen anyone who can tell me whether the profits of RBS was paid in a | :13:55. | :13:59. | |
dividend to shareholders. For the last two or three decades it's been | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
taken for granted that bankers earned a lot of money. The last | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
time that mentality ruled was in the Wall Street Crash just before | :14:06. | :14:10. | |
it in 1920s in America. What happened after that was after 1929 | :14:10. | :14:16. | |
for a few years the bankers carried on being paid a lot. And then it | :14:16. | :14:22. | |
began to readjust. For three or four decades after World War II | :14:22. | :14:27. | |
bankers were paid like other pronerbls. Big changes in mentality | :14:27. | :14:37. | |
:14:37. | :14:38. | ||
British banks have been bailed out. We were through a period of | :14:38. | :14:40. | |
relatively prosperity. At the people at the bottom and middle | :14:40. | :14:43. | |
have been doing relatively OK. The people at the top of the sword and | :14:43. | :14:45. | |
they've thought people at the bottom and middle sort of not | :14:46. | :14:49. | |
complaining too much means they can carry on soaring. These people are | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
complaining a lot. Gillian is right, they're beginning to get it. | :14:52. | :14:56. | |
Whether they get it to the extent they do enough about it, I doubt. | :14:56. | :15:01. | |
The coalition, Mr Cameron and Mr Osbourne, they've kind of tried to | :15:01. | :15:05. | |
run with the pack on this. They've made a lot of speeches about it. | :15:05. | :15:11. | |
But when push came to shove did it not turn out to be grandstanding? | :15:11. | :15:16. | |
This panel here agreed 100% that we shouldn't be telling Stephen Hester | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
how much you should be paid. That is the problem. In the end, the | :15:20. | :15:23. | |
Conservative majority in the Government believes in capitalism | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
and it believes in free enterprise t doesn't believe the Government | :15:26. | :15:29. | |
should tell people how much they're paid. In the end politicians are | :15:29. | :15:34. | |
desperate to find somebody to deflect the anger and bankers are | :15:34. | :15:39. | |
very convenient. We are heading twaordz huge -- towards huge cuts | :15:39. | :15:46. | |
and - exactly. The scapegoat thing, Fred Goodwin, I did end up feeling | :15:46. | :15:52. | |
sorry for Fred, the guy has been richly humiliated, no matter how | :15:52. | :15:57. | |
much his pension is worth. His life is effectively over. What David | :15:57. | :16:00. | |
Cameron should do is actually set up a proper truth and | :16:00. | :16:04. | |
reconciliation, a proper reckoning. What went wrong. Through the whole | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
period so the politicians - to be fair politicians are held to | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
account but the regulators, and the bankers and the ratings agencies | :16:11. | :16:15. | |
and all the rest are put there in front of a serious distinguished | :16:15. | :16:20. | |
panel and asked to account for themselves. Cow say that the | :16:20. | :16:24. | |
banking crisis has been important than the hacking scandal, to the | :16:24. | :16:30. | |
country. Cow indeed. -- you could indeed. On the other side of the | :16:30. | :16:33. | |
Atlantic is it the same banker bashing? It's interesting what's | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
happening right now, there has been a commission to look into it, it | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
wasn't widely effective. There has been a lot of anger towards bankers, | :16:40. | :16:44. | |
not the same degree of anger about the level of money they're earning. | :16:44. | :16:48. | |
Frankly, it's bigger than anything we have seen Stephen Hester earn. | :16:48. | :16:53. | |
What there is, is tkproeing awareness of this issue about | :16:53. | :16:58. | |
fairness. If you look at the... presidential elections will be | :16:58. | :17:04. | |
about that. It's good news for Obama this. It helps. We have come | :17:04. | :17:09. | |
to an end but I don't think this has come to an end, Mr Bob | :17:09. | :17:14. | |
Diamond's bonus is coming down, and half a billion for RBS workers | :17:14. | :17:17. | |
whose names are not called Stephen. We shall see. Gillian, thank you | :17:17. | :17:21. | |
for being with us. Now, I am told Mr Goodwin sleeps | :17:21. | :17:25. | |
like a baby these days, he wakes up every two hours and cries. Before | :17:25. | :17:31. | |
you join him, stick stick around longer because coming up comedy | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
grand Dame Ruby Wax on why politicians don't come clean about | :17:35. | :17:38. | |
depression F that doesn't lift your spirits, nothing will, especially | :17:38. | :17:46. | |
not the joie de vivre black hole otherwise known as our interweb | :17:46. | :17:50. | |
page, or our Twitter and hur 100 billion dollar Facebook. It's | :17:50. | :17:53. | |
chilly here in Westminster. I know the BBC are cutting back but they | :17:53. | :17:59. | |
seem to have forgotten us souled tucked newspaper basement studio | :17:59. | :18:07. | |
55B. Not a warm Blue Nun Horlics in sight. We need call me Dave's | :18:07. | :18:10. | |
little flushed red cheeks to warm us up. They were flaming in the | :18:10. | :18:15. | |
Commons this week as he battled to stop the return of his alter ego | :18:15. | :18:21. | |
Flashman, little Eddie's mocking appeared at times to be just a tad | :18:21. | :18:30. | |
too much for Flashman to bear. Talking of alter egos's here's | :18:30. | :18:40. | |
:18:40. | :18:57. | ||
Anita with hearse to give us a So this week it was all about not | :18:57. | :19:00. | |
getting kicked in your end zone as all the party leaders got padded up, | :19:00. | :19:05. | |
put their heads down and aimed for that all-important slam dunk at the | :19:05. | :19:09. | |
bankers, no, wait a minute that's the wrong sport, isn't it? | :19:09. | :19:13. | |
might need this, Anita. Thank you, Ben. This is so going to ruin my | :19:13. | :19:23. | |
:19:23. | :19:25. | ||
hair! Now bizarrely the RBS quarterback | :19:25. | :19:28. | |
Hester didn't hear the baying of the crowds when it came to matter | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
of his bonus even though his own coach, the chairman himself, went | :19:31. | :19:36. | |
without his �1.4 million. Previously out of form Captain Ed | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
Miliband finally hit his stride, coming up with a rather ingenious | :19:40. | :19:45. | |
blocking defence, a vote in the House of Commons. Stephen Hester | :19:45. | :19:52. | |
was totally zone blitzed. We have got to have responsibility | :19:52. | :19:56. | |
in the boardroom when everybody else is living standards are being | :19:56. | :20:01. | |
squeezed. That's why I say tax the bankers' bonuses and give ordinary | :20:01. | :20:11. | |
:20:11. | :20:14. | ||
employees a say on top pay in every Well, team Cameron were now now | :20:14. | :20:18. | |
under pressure. How do they show they too were tough on the bankers? | :20:18. | :20:22. | |
How is this for a play? What do you is you fine the biggest hunk of | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
meat on the tkpwreupbd iron and take him and chuck him on the fire. | :20:26. | :20:32. | |
Step forward the player formerly known as Sir Fred The Shred, now | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
days just Shred to you and me. The forfeiture committee stripped him | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
of his title and the Government were pleased. We have a special | :20:39. | :20:42. | |
case here of the Royal Bank of Scotland symbolising everything | :20:42. | :20:46. | |
that went wrong in the British economy over the last decade. Fred | :20:46. | :20:49. | |
Goodwin was in charge, I think it's appropriate that he loses his | :20:49. | :20:55. | |
knighthood. Ed was now totally in the game and messing for a fight. | :20:55. | :21:01. | |
We have now heard it all, because he says that the class war against | :21:01. | :21:04. | |
the bankers is going to be led by him and his cabinet of millionaires. | :21:04. | :21:14. | |
I don't think it's going to wash, Time out! | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
David Cameron had some time out in Brussels and while he was there he | :21:18. | :21:21. | |
found that he had to explain to some of his team that he was | :21:21. | :21:24. | |
actually on the right side, just before Christmas he took the | :21:24. | :21:29. | |
applause of the crowds for vetoing an EU treaty. But now he found | :21:29. | :21:33. | |
himself on the defensive having to explain his latest manoeuvres. | :21:33. | :21:38. | |
is a treaty outside the EU. We are not signing it, we are not | :21:38. | :21:43. | |
ratifying it. We are not part of it. It places no obligations on the | :21:43. | :21:50. | |
United Kingdom. Cameron had his players support, it really was | :21:50. | :21:54. | |
touch down for Miliband. With this Prime Minister a veto is not for | :21:54. | :21:59. | |
life, it's just for Christmas. Cameron persuaded his players to | :21:59. | :22:03. | |
get behind him. But what about the yellow team? What were they doing? | :22:04. | :22:10. | |
May I begin by praising the Prague mat teufpl -- pragmatism of the | :22:10. | :22:14. | |
Prime Minister, although I confess to being somewhat surprised that my | :22:14. | :22:18. | |
support for that isn't shared throughout the Government benches. | :22:18. | :22:21. | |
Cracks in the coalition lineout may have been pushed together for now, | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
but what happens if they open in the future? Just how vulnerable | :22:25. | :22:31. | |
does that leave Downing Street? # Watch your step... | :22:31. | :22:35. | |
Also putting in a notable performance this week was the wide | :22:35. | :22:38. | |
receiver Gripper Gove, appearing before the education select | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
committee. He was asked about his plans to do away with vocational | :22:42. | :22:49. | |
subjects at school. But how exactly are we going to do without GCSE | :22:49. | :22:54. | |
scrimmageology? Ultimately, if you say to a student we the state are | :22:54. | :22:58. | |
going to value this qualification as an equivalent, but then the | :22:58. | :23:01. | |
colleges to which they apply and the employers with whom they're | :23:01. | :23:06. | |
seeking a job say no, then that child will understandably feel | :23:06. | :23:14. | |
betrayed and let down. Maybe the questions to hash tag | :23:14. | :23:20. | |
tweeters were proving tricky. What did Michael do? He did what players | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
normally do when it gets a bit sweaty. He called time out. Can I | :23:24. | :23:27. | |
ask a favour. You kindly provided me with water, will you excuse me | :23:28. | :23:35. | |
for a second? I will come back and carry on answering questions. Can | :23:35. | :23:40. | |
you suspend for a sitting? I will be back in a minute. So, post-match | :23:40. | :23:44. | |
report thep. Young Miliband had a good week but he needs to have a | :23:44. | :23:48. | |
longer run than that if he wants to prove that he was actual lay good | :23:48. | :23:57. | |
draft pick. What about he clearly needs to Max protect. He He and no, | :23:57. | :24:01. | |
Andrew, I have absolutely no idea what I just said. | :24:01. | :24:09. | |
Warriors? One, two, three, warriors! | :24:09. | :24:12. | |
Anita was never seen again after that, you know, there she was | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
training with the London Warriors. Let's return to our warriors here | :24:15. | :24:22. | |
in the studio. Are you able to tell us what Mr | :24:22. | :24:27. | |
Cameron actually vetoed and if a week later or two weeks later he | :24:27. | :24:32. | |
still vetoing it? Well, he is absolutely not part of what the | :24:32. | :24:37. | |
rest of - what the eurozone is now negotiating. That's not a veto. | :24:37. | :24:41. | |
Well, it stopped it being a treaty of the European Union. But it's now | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
going to be covered by all the institutions and the European Court | :24:45. | :24:50. | |
of justice? And Britain is not a part of it. No, but we didn't need | :24:50. | :24:55. | |
to veto it not to be a part of it. We haven't vetoed it, we have opted | :24:55. | :24:58. | |
out, that's different from a veto. Well t may be different but it has | :24:58. | :25:04. | |
the same effect of this not being a treaty. A treaty... He described it | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
as a treaty, a treaty agreement. That's what Mr Cameron described it | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
as in parliament. A treaty in the European Union has to by definition | :25:12. | :25:18. | |
include all 27 members. He was in the common say -- Commons saying he | :25:18. | :25:21. | |
supports this treaty. He said he supported the treaty. A couple of | :25:21. | :25:25. | |
months ago he was using a veto to stop a treaty so I was confused as | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
to what treaty he was talking about. And said the Commission, the | :25:28. | :25:31. | |
buildings of the European Union and the European Court could not be | :25:31. | :25:34. | |
used. He's gone back on that as well. He is allowing for the | :25:35. | :25:38. | |
possibility they might be used and that is indeed a change of tone, | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
but that... A big change. But that is something that does not include | :25:42. | :25:48. | |
us, is funmently important. We were never going to be part of any move | :25:48. | :25:52. | |
towards fiscal union. That just wasn't going to happen. So, I don't | :25:52. | :25:57. | |
understand where the veto comes in. It wasn't a veto. We were never | :25:58. | :26:03. | |
going to sign up to a fiscal union treaty. Well, if we weren't what | :26:03. | :26:07. | |
are you surprised about? I don't understand - if we were never - | :26:07. | :26:11. | |
that's exactly what didn't happen. What are you surprised about? | :26:11. | :26:15. | |
don't understand where the word veto comes in. I am not sure it's | :26:15. | :26:21. | |
even his word. The reason he suddenly soared ahead in the polls | :26:21. | :26:26. | |
is because of this veto he magically wielded when he became Mr | :26:26. | :26:30. | |
Strongman, and the nonsense said at the time and at the time sensible | :26:30. | :26:33. | |
sane people said what is he actually vetoing and now he seems | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
to have come to the House of Commons and himself said I didn't | :26:36. | :26:41. | |
actually veto anything. Final word on this, I need to move on. We are | :26:41. | :26:46. | |
floundering here. Britain has parted from the European Union, we | :26:46. | :26:50. | |
are headed on different tracks. That's a different point. It's much | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
more important. He is now suggesting that we are not. I just | :26:54. | :26:57. | |
cannot understand... Let's agree to disagree there. Wye like to say to | :26:57. | :27:05. | |
our viewers if any of you see a veto on the loose tonight... Don't | :27:05. | :27:09. | |
approach it. Let me know and I will take it round to Downing Street, I | :27:09. | :27:14. | |
think it's escaped. Isn't it dangerous for Mr Cameron for the | :27:14. | :27:17. | |
Lib Dems to be happier about this than the Tories. I thought it was | :27:17. | :27:22. | |
amazing that watching that. I make the same point again, that a really | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
important moment in history has been arrived at in which Britain no | :27:26. | :27:32. | |
longer automatically sighs -- says yes late in the day to what happens. | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
Britain has said yes. The thing the Europeans are doing is completely | :27:36. | :27:40. | |
absurd. We are Europeans. You are a European, I am a European, Andrew | :27:40. | :27:44. | |
is a European. I am a Spaniard. know you are. You are a European. | :27:44. | :27:48. | |
don't have to be lectured about that. You are talking about the | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
Europeans as though we are not part. Let him finish the point. There is | :27:52. | :27:58. | |
such a different between Britain and continental Europe. If we are | :27:58. | :28:01. | |
not so your Government would have taken us into the euro, in | :28:01. | :28:05. | |
recognition of the fact we are different we are not in the euro. | :28:05. | :28:11. | |
There is more trouble, for example, this IMF maybe making a request for | :28:11. | :28:15. | |
more money, which is clearly destined for Europe, that's going | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
to cause, well Mr Balls is saying he might not want to support that | :28:19. | :28:28. | |
and a lot of Tory backbenchers. knows when Britain may not need the | :28:28. | :28:38. | |
:28:38. | :28:38. | ||
IMF money. What do you think,... can't necessarily avoid it, you | :28:38. | :28:42. | |
know. We are at the mercy of the markets. Except the Americans have | :28:42. | :28:46. | |
made it clear they will not pony up a penny. It's an election year. | :28:46. | :28:49. | |
There is no way Mr Obama can be seen to be bailing out rich | :28:49. | :28:54. | |
Europeans. Now the Americans account for 17% of any whip around | :28:54. | :28:59. | |
F they don't come up, nobody's going to come up. But understand | :28:59. | :29:04. | |
this also, that sterl something a little -- sterl something a little | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
isolated country. Thank God for the moment we can borrow more cheaply, | :29:08. | :29:13. | |
that may not always be the case. It was extraordinary the body | :29:13. | :29:15. | |
language there, the difference between Osbourne to Cameron on one | :29:15. | :29:18. | |
side and Clegg on the other scratching his leg and his head and | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
the rest of it. Nick Clegg doesn't know what to do now. Tkwoe Prime | :29:22. | :29:24. | |
Minister's question every week on the Daily Politics and he doesn't | :29:24. | :29:32. | |
know whether to smile or cheer or Chris Huhne, speaking of Liberal | :29:32. | :29:36. | |
Democrats. We are going to know tomorrow morning at ten o'clock, he | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
is going to be told at nine, if he is going to be charged over this | :29:39. | :29:45. | |
speeding thing. We don't know if he is. But if he is, I emphasise the | :29:45. | :29:49. | |
word if, for all his lawyers watching tonight. If he is charged, | :29:49. | :29:53. | |
does he have to resign from the Cabinet? I assume that he won't be | :29:53. | :29:57. | |
charged. If he were, he would have to resign. I'm not sure he would | :29:58. | :30:02. | |
have to resign. All that would change is that he is charged. I | :30:02. | :30:07. | |
think it is odd that the CPS is calling this press conference to | :30:07. | :30:11. | |
explain what is relatively a minor offence, even though I accept it is | :30:11. | :30:15. | |
from a Cabinet Minister. It is a serious offence but my point is | :30:15. | :30:25. | |
:30:25. | :30:27. | ||
that it is not as if he is up for Fred "The Shred" offences. You went | :30:27. | :30:34. | |
from mild to moderate. Let Lord Campbell finish. I will never be | :30:34. | :30:38. | |
Lord Campbell. He will continue to deny the charge. Politically the | :30:38. | :30:42. | |
situation may change but I have a funny feeling if he is charged that | :30:42. | :30:48. | |
Cameron will try and tough it out. If he is charged and then cleared, | :30:48. | :30:54. | |
two ifs there, does he come back into the Cabinet? Why don't we wait | :30:54. | :31:00. | |
until ten in the morning. Because if he is charged we won't be able | :31:00. | :31:06. | |
to talk about a lot of this. If the CPS is holding a press conference I | :31:06. | :31:09. | |
think it is because they want to explain why they are not charging | :31:09. | :31:14. | |
him. If he is charged and he resigns or is made to resign, | :31:14. | :31:19. | |
should there be a big or a small reshuffle? I would bring in a small | :31:20. | :31:25. | |
Lib Dem to fail the small gap. agree with that. That's the great | :31:25. | :31:31. | |
thing other coalition. Nearly all Lib Dem MPs will be Ministers by | :31:32. | :31:37. | |
the end of five years. I was told they would be brought in to limit | :31:38. | :31:43. | |
the change. A good week for Ed Miliband, the second in a row. So | :31:43. | :31:47. | |
why did David Miliband write this article in the New Statesman? | :31:47. | :31:50. | |
can't understand the fuss about this. This is the problem with the | :31:50. | :31:55. | |
way politics is debated in Britain. I think David has written a really | :31:55. | :32:02. | |
intect, sensible piece. I also think -- a really intelligent, | :32:02. | :32:07. | |
sensible piece. I don't buy this David is try to undermine Ed at off. | :32:07. | :32:10. | |
The thing is the Labour Party does need a big debate about itself and | :32:10. | :32:14. | |
the country and why we rost the last election. I think David's got | :32:14. | :32:19. | |
some very good pointers about where we go from here. I more or less | :32:19. | :32:26. | |
agree but it is naive to think that the fratricide won't hang over the | :32:26. | :32:30. | |
Labour Party. The public will move on pretty quickly. Now, readers of | :32:30. | :32:37. | |
the nation's most esteemed scientific journal, the Daily Mail, | :32:37. | :32:42. | |
enjoyed another of its peer reviewed articles on Monday, with | :32:42. | :32:50. | |
those can still afford it booking their holidays abroad, the Mail | :32:50. | :32:59. | |
christened it Happy Monday and managed to drag up an "academic". | :33:00. | :33:04. | |
We like junk suicide oi scientists but it got us thinking what | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
politicians could do to help deal with the blues. We asked our own | :33:08. | :33:12. | |
ray of sunshine, that is Alastair Campbell, to put depression in this | :33:12. | :33:19. | |
week's spotlight. One in four of us will have a | :33:19. | :33:23. | |
direct experience of mental illness at some time in our lives. A survey | :33:23. | :33:29. | |
has suggested that MPs it could be even higher and yet very few public | :33:29. | :33:33. | |
figures talk openly about any mental health problem. I'm not | :33:34. | :33:37. | |
being judgmental about that. I totally understand why a nurse or a | :33:37. | :33:42. | |
teacher filling in a job application form says, do you know | :33:42. | :33:46. | |
what, I won't put down my depression, that I had a breakdown | :33:46. | :33:52. | |
or am on medication. But that reinforces the stigma and taboo. It | :33:52. | :33:57. | |
is part of the job of people in public life to break down that tab. | :33:57. | :34:05. | |
I understand why an MP might worry, that they might become a stigma if | :34:05. | :34:10. | |
they were open about their health. From my perspective, on this I find | :34:10. | :34:14. | |
the public and the media more understanding than a lot of MPs | :34:14. | :34:18. | |
might think. I don't support much that David Cameron does but I do | :34:18. | :34:21. | |
support the idea of putting happiness and wellbeing at the | :34:21. | :34:25. | |
centre of policy making. But that means you have to deliver. It means | :34:25. | :34:29. | |
you really do have the put happiness and wellbeing at the | :34:29. | :34:35. | |
centre of an agenda. That means meant at health being at the top. | :34:35. | :34:41. | |
There used the to be a taboo about cancer. Now it is mental health. I | :34:41. | :34:46. | |
want society to be as open about our mental health as we are about | :34:46. | :34:51. | |
our physical health. If a few MPs came out and talked openly about | :34:51. | :34:54. | |
their mental health, it would help them and I think it would help | :34:54. | :34:59. | |
their constituents. Alastair Campbell in his back | :34:59. | :35:07. | |
garden. Who is in our back garden? It is Ruby Wax. Thank you. I didn't | :35:07. | :35:14. | |
realise. Is there a clear definition of mental illness or | :35:14. | :35:18. | |
depression? I think depression is misleading. It implys that you are | :35:18. | :35:23. | |
in a sad mood. It has nothing to do with the tact that your dog ran | :35:23. | :35:29. | |
away or your baby left town. This is the sensation like you are in a | :35:29. | :35:34. | |
coma but you are awake. There's a depletion of personality. It is an | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
unfortunate word India I think it is the word they use is a physical | :35:38. | :35:44. | |
ailment. There is no question when did you have a mental illness | :35:44. | :35:47. | |
notice your haircuts your blood. It's a disease of the brain. Just | :35:47. | :35:52. | |
like you would have a tumour, there's a glitch in all those | :35:52. | :35:54. | |
neurons so it is ridiculous the people say it's your imagination. | :35:54. | :35:59. | |
What did you make of the point Alastair was making in his film | :35:59. | :36:03. | |
there? What is in it for a politician to admit this? We have a | :36:03. | :36:08. | |
pretty unforgiving media in this country. The Prime Minister of | :36:08. | :36:12. | |
Norway left work for a little while and came back and the whole country | :36:12. | :36:16. | |
applauded that. If you are talking about one in four, let's think how | :36:16. | :36:20. | |
many politicians have this. I would rather know about it than them | :36:20. | :36:26. | |
being loose at the in the job. there are that number, one in four, | :36:26. | :36:31. | |
there are 600 and something, so you are talking about over 130 MPs. | :36:31. | :36:35. | |
Given that number, clear he they don't think there is anything in it | :36:35. | :36:39. | |
for them, because they don't come forward. I don't know if they | :36:39. | :36:43. | |
realise there's medication, that we aren't in the dark ages any more. | :36:43. | :36:46. | |
Suddenly we are identified with being possessed with the devil. | :36:46. | :36:51. | |
There is medication. You can go to work. I've had it. I haven't had it | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
in five years. You wouldn't do this with any other illness. The point | :36:55. | :37:00. | |
about MPs, I know there are MPs in Parliament who get very bad | :37:00. | :37:05. | |
depression and who've other mental illnesses. They do feel it might be | :37:05. | :37:08. | |
used against them, but I think they are wrong. I think they would find | :37:08. | :37:13. | |
both their constituents and the media, as I said in the film I | :37:13. | :37:18. | |
never had any problem with the media. They get it. You mentioned | :37:18. | :37:22. | |
the Norwegian Prime Minister, the leader of the Liberal Party in | :37:22. | :37:28. | |
Canada, he came out and talked about his own depression. Stephen | :37:28. | :37:32. | |
Harper, the Prime Minister made an amazing speech about depression | :37:32. | :37:36. | |
after one of his MPs killed himself. It is part of their job to break | :37:36. | :37:41. | |
down taboos and stigma. Do you think it is feasible in this | :37:41. | :37:44. | |
country for the Prime Minister or the Chancellor of the Exchequer or | :37:44. | :37:49. | |
the Foreign Secretary or the Defence Secretary to say they are | :37:49. | :37:53. | |
suffering from depression? Not at that high level. Can I see a | :37:53. | :37:57. | |
backbench MP doing that. I think there've been cases of that. | :37:57. | :38:04. | |
Churchill. Yes. We didn't know about it at the time. I disagree, | :38:04. | :38:10. | |
Michael. There is an interesting book coming out from John biff fin | :38:10. | :38:14. | |
writing about his time in Government, where he went to see | :38:14. | :38:19. | |
Mrs Thatcher and told her he had very bad depression and he wanted | :38:19. | :38:24. | |
to resign from the Cabinet. And to her credit, Mrs Thatcher said she | :38:24. | :38:29. | |
wouldn't have a word of it. It is not that big a deal. I disagree | :38:29. | :38:32. | |
with Michael. I think if a top flight politician came out and said | :38:32. | :38:36. | |
you know what, every now and again I have to take time off, it | :38:36. | :38:41. | |
wouldn't a problem. We don't trust them anyway, so by saying yes I'm | :38:41. | :38:45. | |
part of the human race would endear a lot of the population. You've got | :38:45. | :38:49. | |
to break this Stig match. Forget about celebrities. People always | :38:49. | :38:54. | |
say drue to be a come Tokyo have depression? I said do you know one | :38:54. | :38:58. | |
in four people who are funny? We are talking about the little single | :38:58. | :39:03. | |
mothers up in the middle of nowhere who are so ashamed. This isn't just | :39:03. | :39:08. | |
about mental health Politics you have to pretend to be completely | :39:08. | :39:11. | |
healthy. I remember when Tony Blair had to have a little heart | :39:11. | :39:16. | |
procedure, he looked for a way of distracting attention and he came | :39:16. | :39:20. | |
one the idea of announcing that he wouldn't run for a fourth term. | :39:20. | :39:25. | |
That's how he distracted attention from his heart problem. People | :39:25. | :39:30. | |
worry that the other side, spin doctors like your former self, | :39:30. | :39:35. | |
would make political capital out of it. Gordon Brown was described as | :39:35. | :39:40. | |
psychologically flawed by somebody. He may well have been. He was also | :39:40. | :39:45. | |
asked on television when whether he took antidepressants, if you | :39:45. | :39:49. | |
remember, by Andrew Marr. At the time there was a big deal about | :39:49. | :39:54. | |
that. I remember at the time saying that Andrew was wrong to raise it | :39:54. | :39:59. | |
the way he did but we need to get to a situation where people can be | :39:59. | :40:03. | |
open. I think if somebody tried to use it against a politician white | :40:03. | :40:10. | |
rebound. Definitely. We had one, bankers are not fashionable but the | :40:10. | :40:14. | |
banker at Lloyds. He stepped down for a while because he was | :40:14. | :40:19. | |
suffering from stress and is now back. That probably might not have | :40:19. | :40:22. | |
happened 20 or 30 years ago.Ening think people are coming forward. | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
They have to realise that there is no distinction between mental and | :40:27. | :40:30. | |
physical illness. It is something physical in your brain. You | :40:30. | :40:37. | |
wouldn't say to somebody with Alzheimer's, you they Ronald Reagan | :40:37. | :40:42. | |
was forgiven for having Alzheimer's. We have to move on. The sympathy | :40:42. | :40:48. | |
certainly came forth. I have a quiz. Nothing like political intrigue to | :40:48. | :40:51. | |
get the juices going in Westminster, so we loved this week's revelation | :40:51. | :40:57. | |
that in their continued attempt to appear mildly human, Ed Balls and | :40:57. | :41:02. | |
Yvette Cooper have been keeping up their favourite lasagne dish for | :41:02. | :41:06. | |
Labour's moves and shapers. It could be a plot to make estroet be | :41:06. | :41:13. | |
the next Labour leader. We thought it was time to dig out our | :41:14. | :41:21. | |
politicians and their favourite foods quiz. 3 It is pretty easy. | :41:21. | :41:27. | |
Which politician's favourite food was peas? John Major. Well done, | :41:27. | :41:34. | |
Ruby. According to Spitting Image it was. Which politician's | :41:34. | :41:43. | |
favourite food was jelly beans? John Major? No. Whose favourite | :41:43. | :41:52. | |
food was a Tony roasted songbird. President Mitterrand. And who told | :41:52. | :41:57. | |
the magazine his preferred food was fish and chips and then said it was | :41:57. | :42:04. | |
fresh fettucine garnished... Tony Blair. You probably wrote all of | :42:05. | :42:10. | |
that rubbish. A first. You got every question right. That means, | :42:10. | :42:15. | |
there he is, the little smiler there. Anyway, that's your lot for | :42:15. | :42:23. | |
tonight, folks. But not for us. Oh, no. It is open mic night at | :42:23. | :42:27. | |
Annabels and we've been give an slot on the bill somewhere between | :42:27. | :42:35. | |
a reformed ugly rumours and Lembit Opik's infamous harmonica dance. We | :42:35. | :42:41. | |
leave you with a taster thanks to So sky Arts first love programme | :42:41. | :42:46. |